High school planning for an academic student that may pursue a dance career

[The Governess]

Hi again...I sincerely hope you are all not getting tired of my posts and rolling your eyes when you see yet another post from me about high school planning.  :laugh:  If you are, I totally understand though, because I am getting tired of thinking about high school plans myself! 

 

We've been homeschooling classically from the beginning and I figured that when dd13 got to high school that would continue.  I have a great year planned for her in my mind for 9th grade, with ancient literature and history, biology, pre-calculus, as well as a continuation of her language studies, and a shift to rhetoric-stage writing.  This is all the next logical step after the hard work we have put in during the logic stage years.  I'm really happy with the student and person she is becoming and where she's at in her schooling. Sounds great, right?

 

Here's the thing:  She is a very serious ballet student.  Right now she says she wants to dance professionally.  Based on her current desires and positive feedback from her instructors, acceptances she's received into selective programs, etc... I would give her a 50% chance of starting a dance career or a trainee position of some sort straight out of high school.  If she decides to go that route, she'd have our full support.  If she doesn't go that route, she would probably be aiming to attend a selective college, possibly double majoring in dance and something academic (but she's not sure what yet).  I know that at some point, she's going to want to get a degree.  She's very academic; she likes to read, study, and learn.

 

So, I'm in the position of trying to prepare her for two very different tracks.  I'm needing to step back and figure out what is going to serve her best when I don't really know where she's going to be headed.  Here are the options as I see it:

 

1)  Rigorous classical approach to high school, just like I had planned.  Apply for colleges her senior year while she is also auditioning for ballet companies/training programs.  Don't do anything differently in the meantime, and just see what happens when we get there.

 

2)  Try to get ahead in college credits now.  Enroll her in DE classes, with the goal of earning as many credits in high school as she can.  Then if she goes the dance route, she can do a part-time college program and still earn a degree within 4 years of graduating.  This likely means giving up classical education.  There are no good liberal arts colleges/classical programs within driving distance of us.  If there is something online that fits the bill that would definitely be an option, but I don't know of any reputable online classical DE programs.

 

3)  Encourage her to specialize and pursue skills that will enable her to earn money while she's dancing (we all know that dancers don't really make a living wage).  I'm thinking tutoring, computer programming, other flexible work.....

 

4)  Some combination of the above?

 

Has anyone else been here?  Or, if this was your kid, how would you approach this?  If I go forward with the assumption that she's going to dance professionally, she might end up being injured or change her mind a couple years from now and we'd have to switch gears.  On the other hand, I could prepare her well for a selective school, with the classical scope and sequence I always thought I would use, and then she could go off to dance and it would be an uphill battle trying to earn a degree later or to support herself while she's dancing.  I'm probably overthinking things, but I really just want to prepare her for her future, whatever it may be, as best I can, and not just for college or a dance career, but also just for life in general.  She's worked very hard on all fronts up to this point and I want to do right by her. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts and perspective... and your patience with me as I continue to ask for advice.   :blush: 

 

 

[lmrich]

No real advice... but I know several young ladies who make professional companies while in high school. They are working so hard; it is almost crazy excpet they are happy!

[fourisenough]

Hi again...I sincerely hope you are all not getting tired of my posts and rolling your eyes when you see yet another post from me about high school planning. :laugh: If you are, I totally understand though, because I am getting tired of thinking about high school plans myself!

 

We've been homeschooling classically from the beginning and I figured that when dd13 got to high school that would continue. I have a great year planned for her in my mind for 9th grade, with ancient literature and history, biology, pre-calculus, as well as a continuation of her language studies, and a shift to rhetoric-stage writing. This is all the next logical step after the hard work we have put in during the logic stage years. I'm really happy with the student and person she is becoming and where she's at in her schooling. Sounds great, right?

 

Here's the thing: She is a very serious ballet student. Right now she says she wants to dance professionally. Based on her current desires and positive feedback from her instructors, acceptances she's received into selective programs, etc... I would give her a 50% chance of starting a dance career or a trainee position of some sort straight out of high school. If she decides to go that route, she'd have our full support. If she doesn't go that route, she would probably be aiming to attend a selective college, possibly double majoring in dance and something academic (but she's not sure what yet). I know that at some point, she's going to want to get a degree. She's very academic; she likes to read, study, and learn.

 

So, I'm in the position of trying to prepare her for two very different tracks. I'm needing to step back and figure out what is going to serve her best when I don't really know where she's going to be headed. Here are the options as I see it:

 

1) Rigorous classical approach to high school, just like I had planned. Apply for colleges her senior year while she is also auditioning for ballet companies/training programs. Don't do anything differently in the meantime, and just see what happens when we get there.

 

2) Try to get ahead in college credits now. Enroll her in DE classes, with the goal of earning as many credits in high school as she can. Then if she goes the dance route, she can do a part-time college program and still earn a degree within 4 years of graduating. This likely means giving up classical education. There are no good liberal arts colleges/classical programs within driving distance of us. If there is something online that fits the bill that would definitely be an option, but I don't know of any reputable online classical DE programs.

 

3) Encourage her to specialize and pursue skills that will enable her to earn money while she's dancing (we all know that dancers don't really make a living wage). I'm thinking tutoring, computer programming, other flexible work.....

 

4) Some combination of the above?

 

Has anyone else been here? Or, if this was your kid, how would you approach this? If I go forward with the assumption that she's going to dance professionally, she might end up being injured or change her mind a couple years from now and we'd have to switch gears. On the other hand, I could prepare her well for a selective school, with the classical scope and sequence I always thought I would use, and then she could go off to dance and it would be an uphill battle trying to earn a degree later or to support herself while she's dancing. I'm probably overthinking things, but I really just want to prepare her for her future, whatever it may be, as best I can, and not just for college or a dance career, but also just for life in general. She's worked very hard on all fronts up to this point and I want to do right by her.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and perspective... and your patience with me as I continue to ask for advice. :blush:

Following because I’m in almost the exact same boat! Except my DD (13 tomorrow!) is in 7th grade.

 

At this point, I’d vote for option #1. Curious to read others’ thoughts.

[madteaparty]

IME, DE and a rigorous high school experience are not mutually exclusive.

Edited October 25, 2017 by madteaparty

[....]

One of my kids wants to continue ballet in college, too.  She's already started talking to the school owner about it and the lady has given us an idea of what to expect during high school - but our dd is younger than yours.  She's only 10.  

 

Anyway, I would go with Option #1.  Our dd is using MFW and we just plan to continue with that.  For high school, we might let her follow TWTM, because she seems to do well with classical ed stuff (unlike her older siblings, who are all over the place).

 

We don't really plan to do dual enrollment with any of our kids at this point.  My oldest turns 16 in a few weeks and even she's not interested in DE.  Mine do too many extracurriculars/volunteer work to add in anything else.  And ballet is time-consuming.  Lol.  Our life is ruled by The Nutcracker right now.   :tongue_smilie:  At least it's not recital time.  I feel like checks are just flying out of my checkbook during that time of year.

 

Not sure if any of that was helpful...  Good luck with your decision!

[GoodGrief]

The problem with DE for her is that she will really need maximum flexibility in scheduling to accommodate dance while in high school.

 

My daughter left dance after ninth grade, but continued to be tightly scheduled with other things (she was a serious figure skater/runner/musician) throughout high school, so I understand the dilemma. I would look for curric that allows study while on the go...waiting between classes, in the car, while traveling, backstage. I'd plan to do some work in the summers, as she may need various breaks depending on performance/training schedule. We rarely committed to a class that had set meeting times; asynchronous was generally the way to go.  It is definitely possible to do rigorous within these parameters. My daughter is in her sophomore year at Princeton currently :-)

 

 

[klmama]

Yes, maximum flexibility is key.  

 

I suggest you take a look at the requirements for both a dance degree and a business degree at whatever colleges and universities might interest her, and plan high school classes accordingly so she is prepared for both.  She may not currently be interested in studying business, but if she were to want to run her own studio someday it would be very helpful.

[Roadrunner]

I have no advice, but I just want to point out how incredible it is to achieve both academics and dance. I know some dancers and athletes and to accommodate practice time, academics in those families are at bare minimum.

I wound personally continue with rigorous academics as long as her dance isn't suffering, since dance is her dream.

[Lori D.]

...She is a very serious ballet student.  Right now she says she wants to dance professionally...

...If she doesn't go that route, she would probably be aiming to attend a selective college... She's very academic; she likes to read, study, and learn.

 

...Here are the options as I see it:

 

1)  Rigorous classical approach to high school...

 

2)  Try to get ahead in college credits now....

 

3)  Encourage her to specialize and pursue skills that will enable her to earn money while she's dancing...

 

4)  Some combination of the above?

 

...I could prepare her well for a selective school, with the classical scope and sequence I always thought I would use, and then she could go off to dance and it would be an uphill battle trying to earn a degree later or to support herself while she's dancing...

 

Gently, I don't think it's an all-or-nothing situation of just one plan -- there is the possibility of slightly pigeon-holing DD's future before she even starts high school. ;) Yes, try to plan for the 4 years of high school and the bigger picture of college and career, but also be prepared to be flexible, as your best-laid plans may have to do a 180-turn partway through to go with new goals and needs.

 

Online classes and DE do have a tendency to lock you into a schedule that may not be compatible with dance. Also, the additional commuting to/from DE classes eats up precious time in your schedule. Not to mention that you MUST make those classes the priority to pass them with good grades (DE course grades are part of the permanent GPA), so that means those outsourced classes must have study and homework time scheduled at home, further taking away from any home-grown courses or home activities.

 

Personally, for 9th grade, I would focus on transitioning into high school, and learning how to balance a good set of 5-6 rigorous high school credits with 20-30 hours a week of dance. So I would not shoot for more than 1 outsourced class -- and wait on DE until 10th grade or later, to ensure high success for the permanent college GPA. Just me. 

 

Non-outsourcing options for a rigorous academic high school could include self-study at home with a College Board-approved curriculum for AP tests, or use AP self-paced materials such as Thinkwell. Or, if Christian material is okay, rigorous classical self-paced study at home with Veritas Self-Paced.

 

For knocking out college credits in advance, you could consider CLEP tests -- study at your own pace, schedule a time with the local university or community college testing center that offers that test, and earn college credit for each passing test score.

 

If your DD does get heavily into dance in high school, she's not going to have a lot of time for academics beyond a basic "4x5" set of credits -- 4 credits each in the 5 academic areas of English, Math (thru Pre-Calc), Science (with labs), Social Studies (with 1 credit as American History), and Foreign Language.

 

re: classical education

That is a wonderful goal, and if it works out, great! But just an FYI, if you are thinking classical is what will make your student competitive for selective colleges... realistically, a solid "4x5" with some advanced classes and a few AP tests, plus a lot of hours in an extracurricular (dance) of her passion, will do more than a "classical set of credits". "Classical", like "Honors", can mean any number of things to any number of high schools, and colleges have no way of knowing what that really means in terms of rigor. Completion of advanced coursework and AP test scores or DE (college level work while still in high school) DOES mean something to college admission offices because that is all much more standardized, which allows them to have some way of actually comparing students from many different high schools and homeschools. JMO!

 

 

Good luck in planning (and trying to do it all! ;) ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Lori D.

[Miss Tick]

Following because I’m in almost the exact same boat! Except my DD (13 tomorrow!) is in 7th grade.

 

At this point, I’d vote for option #1. Curious to read others’ thoughts.

Same, same.

 

I don't plan to back off on academic rigor until we are forced to make trade-offs. Our ballet school is unlikely to require more than 20 hours a week. Anything more would mean some kind of family upheaval.

 

Surely there are done rigorous DE courses you could take? I suspect that DE would mean in our case that we would need at least two in-home classes that i can be very flexible with load-wise.

 

It sounds like your smart, motivated dd would be up to the challenge of a delayed degree.

[fourisenough]

I do know a trainee with a major ballet company who is chipping away at a degree from Harvard Extension School. I think she takes 1 or 2 courses per term while also dancing a ton at a very high level. It isn’t easy, but it’s possible.

https://www.extension.harvard.edu

 

I would think the more rigorous her at-home classical high school education, the more likely your daughter would be successful with something like this. A rigorous classical education would also likely be good prep for a number of CLEP tests, too, if those credits would be accepted by her degree-granting institution.

[JanetC]

Ran into a friend of mine at Costco who has a high schooler on a prepro ballet track. A friend of her daughter's did minimalist online high school to graduate early and focus on dance. She went with a bunch of her friends to the Arizona dance audition on a lark. Loved it. Got past the audition. Then they looked at her high school transcript and discovered it didn't meet the standards for the University.
 

I would make sure to keep an eye on university requirements and meet them no matter how sure she is she will be dancing.

[The Governess]

IME, DE and a rigorous high school experience are not mutually exclusive.

 

Totally agree with you!  It's the rigorous+classical+DE that I am having a hard time finding.  At least in my area, there aren't many DE classes that emphasize classical subjects/methods.  So I would have to abandon some of my classical goals if I went that route.  Or do a combination of DE and non-DE subjects - which might be the solution. 

[The Governess]

The problem with DE for her is that she will really need maximum flexibility in scheduling to accommodate dance while in high school.

 

My daughter left dance after ninth grade, but continued to be tightly scheduled with other things (she was a serious figure skater/runner/musician) throughout high school, so I understand the dilemma. I would look for curric that allows study while on the go...waiting between classes, in the car, while traveling, backstage. I'd plan to do some work in the summers, as she may need various breaks depending on performance/training schedule. We rarely committed to a class that had set meeting times; asynchronous was generally the way to go.  It is definitely possible to do rigorous within these parameters. My daughter is in her sophomore year at Princeton currently :-)

 

So far we have done okay with live online classes, but there are definitely times when school and dance schedules collide and things get stressful.  She is becoming a pro at working in the car and at the studio when she has breaks.  This past summer she was so busy with dance that I didn't ask her to do any schoolwork - she was growing a lot and really needed the physical and mental downtime. 

 

Congrats to your daughter!  And to you - it's such a challenge to keep up with these kids. :)

[The Governess]

Gently, I don't think it's an all-or-nothing situation of just one plan -- there is the possibility of slightly pigeon-holing DD's future before she even starts high school. ;) Yes, try to plan for the 4 years of high school and the bigger picture of college and career, but also be prepared to be flexible, as your best-laid plans may have to do a 180-turn partway through to go with new goals and needs.

 

Thanks Lori!  Pigeon-holing is exactly what I don't want to do! I always have a long term plan, but re-evaluate it each year.  I feel like starting high school, however, requires a bit more long-term thinking and a general end goal in mind.  At least, I would feel better knowing what end goal I am working towards!

 

Online classes and DE do have a tendency to lock you into a schedule that may not be compatible with dance. Also, the additional commuting to/from DE classes eats up precious time in your schedule. Not to mention that you MUST make those classes the priority to pass them with good grades (DE course grades are part of the permanent GPA), so that means those outsourced classes must have study and homework time scheduled at home, further taking away from any home-grown courses or home activities.

 

Personally, for 9th grade, I would focus on transitioning into high school, and learning how to balance a good set of 5-6 rigorous high school credits with 20-30 hours a week of dance. So I would not shoot for more than 1 outsourced class -- and wait on DE until 10th grade or later, to ensure high success for the permanent college GPA. Just me. 

 

For background, she's been taking online classes since 4th grade, and since she started 6th grade she's been taking 6 online classes each year from various providers.  This year, four of her online classes are high school level.  She's kept up with her schoolwork (yes, with some stressful weeks here and there) while dancing six days a week for a while now.  This year she has become remarkably independent - she wants to do everything herself, and I've told her that as long as she is getting A's on her quizzes, tests, and papers, that I'll just be checking in here and there and be available if she needs help with something.  So far this is working well.  I do think that she's a good candidate for DE, and could likely graduate with quite a few credits, but like you said, I worry about commuting time and/or the possibility of getting a bad teacher, etc.  I meticulously research all of the classes I enroll her in online and so far they have all been great.  But as a DE student she would not have priority registration and could get stuck in a poor class.  So, that worries me - not just for her GPA but just her educational experience in general. 

 

Non-outsourcing options for a rigorous academic high school could include self-study at home with a College Board-approved curriculum for AP tests, or use AP self-paced materials such as Thinkwell. Or, if Christian material is okay, rigorous classical self-paced study at home with Veritas Self-Paced.

 

For knocking out college credits in advance, you could consider CLEP tests -- study at your own pace, schedule a time with the local university or community college testing center that offers that test, and earn college credit for each passing test score.

 

I know there is no simple answer, but when weighing AP vs. DE vs. CLEP it's hard for me to know which is the better choice, especially when I have no idea what kind of college experience she is preparing for.  I've heard that AP and DE are viewed fairly evenly, but how does CLEP compare?

 

If your DD does get heavily into dance in high school, she's not going to have a lot of time for academics beyond a basic "4x5" set of credits -- 4 credits each in the 5 academic areas of English, Math (thru Pre-Calc), Science (with labs), Social Studies (with 1 credit as American History), and Foreign Language.

 

re: classical education

That is a wonderful goal, and if it works out, great! But just an FYI, if you are thinking classical is what will make your student competitive for selective colleges... realistically, a solid "4x5" with some advanced classes and a few AP tests, plus a lot of hours in an extracurricular (dance) of her passion, will do more than a "classical set of credits". "Classical", like "Honors", can mean any number of things to any number of high schools, and colleges have no way of knowing what that really means in terms of rigor. Completion of advanced coursework and AP test scores or DE (college level work while still in high school) DOES mean something to college admission offices because that is all much more standardized, which allows them to have some way of actually comparing students from many different high schools and homeschools. JMO!

 

Thanks for this.  I guess in my mind, the classical methodology with Socratic discussion, reading of difficult classic texts, etc. is rigorous and great preparation for college.  But you're right that it might not look better to a college than a rigorous standard set of credits.  I guess I need to decide how important the classical method is in our school and if it fits with her goals. I've figured that we would be doing things classically for so long that thinking of doing otherwise feels like a big shift.  

 

Ultimately, I think I am trying to prepare for this scenario:  She dances professionally for 3-4 years, then decides she wants to go to college and get a degree.  But we also spent money supporting her during her first year or two of dancing, when she was a trainee.  We can't afford 4 years of college as well, plus she may not be eligible for scholarships, etc. after taking such a long break from school.  So she needs to work while attending school, and go with a less expensive, less selective program.  Sure would be nice if she had a nice stack of DE credits that she could apply to a degree in this situation. 

 

 

Good luck in planning (and trying to do it all! ;) ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks again, Lori, for helping me think through all of this.  :)

 

[lisabees]

Chiming in. I have BTDT.

 

DD came home for a year and a half (she is actually my SD and had always gone to PS). She trained privately with her Russian ballet instructor - 6 hours a day. That was on top of travel and rehearsals and competitions.

 

For the first year, it was curriculum created by me. She struggled. She was exhausted. Academics were definitely on the back burner, even though she is super bright and curious. 

 

Then, she got injured. Then she had surgery. Then, her instructor went to Ballet West. Then, she traveled 3 hours a day to a new school. Then, she became depressed. 

 

Anyway, her dancing days were over.  It was just too much for her. She realized that she wanted to focus on college; she returned to PS in January. Now, as a senior, she is playing catch-up, academically.

 

It's a hard call. Dancing pre-professional ballet - for hours a day - is mentally and physically exhausting for a high school student. Something has to give and it is usually the academics. That's only natural. But to follow your dreams is a special thing, especially when we parents are able to give them that gift. 

 

You mentioned school would be an uphill battle later. We have seen plenty of dancers give up college to enter a company right out of high school, only to get injured or be in the corps or just get worn down.  Usually, they give up in their early 20s, when it is too late to experience college in the traditional way.  Then, they need to find work and they find very low paying jobs and can't afford the house or car.  Of course, there are the ones who succeed!  But, as a parent, I do NOT think you are overthinking the need to prepare her for all scenarios.

 

No ideas about which type of schooling.  The one that fits best at that moment.

 

Best of luck to your daughter!  The ballet world is such a special, insular one. It was an honor to be part of it.

 

ETA:  For anyone not familiar with the ballet world...I don't think the OP is talking about studying ballet in college. That's just not how it works in ballet. Right out of high school, if not earlier, a dancer ideally gets signed by a company. 

 

ETA: OP, I totally hear on the money, too!  College savings can easily get depleted when supporting a dancer!

Edited October 26, 2017 by lisabees

[....]

ETA:  For anyone not familiar with the ballet world...I don't think the OP is talking about studying ballet in college. That's just not how it works in ballet. Right out of high school, if not earlier, a dancer ideally gets signed by a company. 

 

I'm not an expert on this (as in, I probably really, really don't know what I'm talking about  :tongue_smilie:  )...but we have a couple of girls in our ballet school who are majoring in ballet in college.  From my understanding, there are only 2 universities here who even have ballet or dance as a major.  I'm assuming it's similar to majoring in theater??  They can major in dance and minor in something else?  And I'm assuming it's not as intense as going professional right after high school?  

 

And I don't know about everyone else, but our school owner has already talked to us about being careful not to burn out dd.  She danced professionally for 20 years and said she has seen a ton of great talent burned out and injured during high school.  So, she is very careful to avoid that. 

 

Ugh, the dance world is confusing, isn't it!  It's like an alternate universe.  

[The Governess]

Chiming in. I have BTDT.

 

DD came home for a year and a half (she is actually my SD and had always gone to PS). She trained privately with her Russian ballet instructor - 6 hours a day. That was on top of travel and rehearsals and competitions.

 

For the first year, it was curriculum created by me. She struggled. She was exhausted. Academics were definitely on the back burner, even though she is super bright and curious.

 

Then, she got injured. Then she had surgery. Then, her instructor went to Ballet West. Then, she traveled 3 hours a day to a new school. Then, she became depressed.

 

Anyway, her dancing days were over. It was just too much for her. She realized that she wanted to focus on college; she returned to PS in January. Now, as a senior, she is playing catch-up, academically.

 

It's a hard call. Dancing pre-professional ballet - for hours a day - is mentally and physically exhausting for a high school student. Something has to give and it is usually the academics. That's only natural. But to follow your dreams is a special thing, especially when we parents are able to give them that gift.

 

You mentioned school would be an uphill battle later. We have seen plenty of dancers give up college to enter a company right out of high school, only to get injured or be in the corps or just get worn down. Usually, they give up in their early 20s, when it is too late to experience college in the traditional way. Then, they need to find work and they find very low paying jobs and can't afford the house or car. Of course, there are the ones who succeed! But, as a parent, I do NOT think you are overthinking the need to prepare her for all scenarios.

 

No ideas about which type of schooling. The one that fits best at that moment.

 

Best of luck to your daughter! The ballet world is such a special, insular one. It was an honor to be part of it.

 

ETA: For anyone not familiar with the ballet world...I don't think the OP is talking about studying ballet in college. That's just not how it works in ballet. Right out of high school, if not earlier, a dancer ideally gets signed by a company.

 

ETA: OP, I totally hear on the money, too! College savings can easily get depleted when supporting a dancer!

Thanks sooo much for chiming in. I am so sorry to hear of your dd's injury and all of the other events that led her to stop dancing. I hope she's able to catch up on her schoolwork and have an amazing college experience. The dance world can be so unforgiving and hard to navigate; planning ahead feels almost impossible! Thank you for the confirmation that I'm not overthinking this.

 

Yes, her dream is to dance straight out of high school. If that doesn't happen, she might pursue college dance. She loves dancing and I see her continuing with it in some form or other no matter what else happens.

 

My other friends who have sent their dancers off to trainee programs or companies have compromised a lot on the academics. I'm hoping I don't have to do the same, but want to use these years wisely!!

[Lori D.]

I always have a long term plan, but re-evaluate it each year.

 

Yea! Then you're planning sounds good -- more along the lines of trying to list various options, not for pigeon-holing, but for keeping your options open and on the table as you go. :)

 

 

...she's been taking online classes since 4th grade, and since she started 6th grade she's been taking 6 online classes each year... This year, four of her online classes are high school level.  She's kept up with her schoolwork... while dancing six days a week 

 

Wow! Then disregard my comments on outsourcing, as they clearly do not apply here! :)

 

 

...I meticulously research all of the classes I enroll her in online and so far they have all been great.  But as a DE student she would not have priority registration and could get stuck in a poor class.  So, that worries me - not just for her GPA but just her educational experience in general... 

 

Yes, that always is a possibility with DE, and with college courses in general. Much more a "roll of the dice" than online high school courses and specific instructors that people on these boards can recommend.

 

While I know you are eager to have her start accruing college credits, you might still wait a year to see how everything is going with all high school level courses, or some AP courses, plus possibility even more hours for dancing, before also adding DE headaches in there. Just a thought.

 

 

..I know there is no simple answer, but when weighing AP vs. DE vs. CLEP it's hard for me to know which is the better choice, especially when I have no idea what kind of college experience she is preparing for.  I've heard that AP and DE are viewed fairly evenly, but how does CLEP compare? ... 

 

CLEP is the easiest option and least rigorous option. It is also the most flexible option for you to do. For example, you could do home-based materials for an American History credit (required as one of the Social Studies credits for college admission by many schools), and when you've covered enough material to equal a credit in your homeschool, study the CLEP booklet on American History, and then take the CLEP test -- that gives you both your high school credit AND (if the student passes) a college credit in the Social Sciences, which *may* meet a gen. ed. requirement for a college degree.

 

CLEP tests are accepted at almost 3000 colleges and universities, so pretty widely accepted. However, the more selective/competitive or top tier the school, the less likely CLEP is accepted. You can look on each individual college's website to see which CLEPs and APs are accepted, and whether for a required college degree credit, or if just as an elective. These pages on the college websites also usually tell you what score is needed on the AP tests to count as college credit, and also what the maximum limit is for that college for "credit by exam" (CLEP and AP) and transfer credits (DE).

 

If you know which college you will attend, or if you have it narrowed down to 3-6 colleges, it's easy to go look at their websites to see which specific tests count towards specific required credits. Any other tests not lined up to the specific courses required by the specific college will grant credit as an "elective", which does nothing towards knocking out required credits in advance.

 

Whether to do AP, DE, or CLEP as your best option... totally depends on what college you plan on attending.

 

 

...Thanks for this.  I guess in my mind, the classical methodology with Socratic discussion, reading of difficult classic texts, etc. is rigorous and great preparation for college.  But you're right that it might not look better to a college than a rigorous standard set of credits.  I guess I need to decide how important the classical method is in our school and if it fits with her goals. I've figured that we would be doing things classically for so long that thinking of doing otherwise feels like a big shift.  

 

Yes, the classical methodology as you describe IS rigorous, and you WILL put those things down in your separate course description document, and colleges WILL then see that the credits are rigorous... But not all colleges require, or even look at course description documents, so AP tests and high ACT/SAT scores are the first, fast thing they look at to determine "rigor' and a fairly standardized way of comparing students.

 

I failed to make my point clear (lol). I was not saying you shouldn't do a rigorous *classical* education. What I was trying to say is that many education providers call themselves "classical" with readings from the classics -- but that doesn't mean that it's done at the same high level of rigor as YOUR advanced DD's level or rigorous classical. :) Colleges have no way of knowing *what kind of rigor* is involved in YOUR student's list of credits, unless they read the course description, and even then, they are going to first look at the standardized test scores (AP, ACT/SAT), any DE, and the student's GPA to have a starting point of understanding what YOU mean by "rigorous classical education".

 

What I'm trying to say is: Sure! Go for *classical* rigorous -- AND be sure to also show *rigor* in the way colleges understand it. Does that clarify? :)

 

 

...Ultimately, I think I am trying to prepare for this scenario:  She dances professionally for 3-4 years, then decides she wants to go to college and get a degree.  But we also spent money supporting her during her first year or two of dancing, when she was a trainee.  We can't afford 4 years of college as well, plus she may not be eligible for scholarships, etc. after taking such a long break from school.  So she needs to work while attending school, and go with a less expensive, less selective program.  Sure would be nice if she had a nice stack of DE credits that she could apply to a degree in this situation.

 

No way of knowing the future.

 

If you student is accepted into a professional dance company right out of high school, she may want to maximize the short-lifespan of professional dancing, and do it for more like 15-18 years before being ready to go back to school and switch careers. It's awfully hard to get INTO professional dance companies to begin with, which makes it hard to stop until your body is telling you it's time to stop. If that's case, then colleges would likely have greatly changed their degree catalogs, and credits that would have knocked out general ed. requirements now, may no longer be needed, so that a lot of the advance DE or CLEP may no longer help.

 

If your DD takes off more than 1 year after high school graduation (AND it needs to be taken as an official "gap year" after accepting a specific college for attendance) , she will no longer be eligible for freshman scholarships, which are the bulk of scholarships, and the highest awards of money, AND are the renewable (multi-year) scholarships. DD would be a "non-traditional" student, entering college at an older age. She *might* be eligible for transfer scholarships, but transfer scholarships are most often small amounts of money, and are usually just 1-time awards.

 

At this early stage, I'd guess that the best bet is to straddle the fence until it's closer to the time of making the "big decision" -- research and settle on the 6 universities with the best dance programs -- AND programs that have good networking and "feed into" professional dance companies, so that DD gets her degree WHILE furthering her dance training, AND while she has the most opportunities for the largest amount of scholarship $$. Find out what AP and CLEP and DE each accepts. Find out what ACT/SAT scores put your student in the top 25% of incoming freshman -- or even better, the top 10% -- which makes her very desirable to the school for boosting their statistics.

 

Good luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Lori D.

[Reefgazer]

I agree with all of this.  My DD will likely wind up doing something with equine science (which you really don't need a degree to do well).  We are still preparing her with a solid classical education, with the intent that she will be going to college (where she intends to do a double major in equine science and business).  I think a solid education will prepare her for whatever lies ahead, even if she doesn't technically "need" a degree to be successful in her chosen field.  That is the most flexible option, as I see it.

Yes, maximum flexibility is key.  

 

I suggest you take a look at the requirements for both a dance degree and a business degree at whatever colleges and universities might interest her, and plan high school classes accordingly so she is prepared for both.  She may not currently be interested in studying business, but if she were to want to run her own studio someday it would be very helpful.

 

[lisabees]

Just another note from DD's experience.  When she homeschooled, she requested deep studies into Shakespeare and Women's Lit, with an emphasis on feminism.  After she got injured, she spent her time immersed even further into the women's studies, which led to social justice issues.

 

Thus, her current passions are these issues.  She is well-read and well-informed and this had led to many interesting college choices and interviews.  Her scores are not high enough for very selective schools, but I believe her essays and interviews will get her into some well-regarded schools.

 

My point being this...be conscious in letting your dd steer the academic wheel.  Not only will it make her more interesting, but it may just guide her if the ballet plans change for whatever reason.  Just when my dd thought she had to reinvent herself, she realized she only had to be more of herself. My advice would be to not be too generic in your studies.  Also, if she is capable, have her take SAT Subject Tests when it lines nicely with her regular subjects - even in 9th or 10th grades.  Selective schools really need those back-up scores. 

[Lori D.]

ETA:  For anyone not familiar with the ballet world...I don't think the OP is talking about studying ballet in college. That's just not how it works in ballet. Right out of high school, if not earlier, a dancer ideally gets signed by a company. 

 

Yes, I was thinking of our local state university which has a great Dance degree program -- it is modern dance and ballet, and is a full Bachelor's degree, not specialized on intensive ballet like a ballet troop. If the student is willing to be more flexible about type of dance, a lot of dancers who graduate with this dance degree go on into Modern Dance troops. :)

 

Thanks for sharing from your DD's experiences, Lisabees -- invaluable advice. :)

[hopskipjump]

Ultimately, I think I am trying to prepare for this scenario:  She dances professionally for 3-4 years, then decides she wants to go to college and get a degree.  But we also spent money supporting her during her first year or two of dancing, when she was a trainee.  We can't afford 4 years of college as well, plus she may not be eligible for scholarships, etc. after taking such a long break from school.  So she needs to work while attending school, and go with a less expensive, less selective program.  Sure would be nice if she had a nice stack of DE credits that she could apply to a degree in this situation. 

 

 

Food for thought on this particular point: If your dd dances for 3-4 years and then wants to attend college - her cost-of-attendance would be based upon *her* income at that time (not yours), which might make her eligible for significant financial aid that she might not be eligible for now (since it would be your income taken into account right out of high school). This could be significant at some schools, not-so-much at others, depending on their financial aid policies.

 

[GoodGrief]

Food for thought on this particular point: If your dd dances for 3-4 years and then wants to attend college - her cost-of-attendance would be based upon *her* income at that time (not yours), which might make her eligible for significant financial aid that she might not be eligible for now (since it would be your income taken into account right out of high school). This could be significant at some schools, not-so-much at others, depending on their financial aid policies.

 

 

She will be considered a dependent of her parents for FAFSA purposes until age 24, unless she marries.

Edited October 26, 2017 by GoodGrief

[Donna]

My dd is not a dancer but a musician and we had decisions to make similar to those you are considering. Dd had completed a bit of her high school coursework in 7-8th grade and did 9th grade completely homeschooling. She also is very academically inclined and a hard worker.

 

Once she reached 15yo and was then able to take DE classes through our local college, we went (mostly) with your option #2 but rather than taking courses at the college, dd is taking whatever she is interested in that is offered online. She tours/travels quite a bit and needs the flexibility that comes with doing courses online. She is taking 2 courses a semester through the college and the rest of her coursework in at home or with tutors (one online and the other local). Dd is not pursuing a degree option through the college at this point, just sampling courses she is interested in while completing high school requirements...she is trying to decide if she wishes to pursue music in college, something other than music (while continuing her performances), or some combination with dual major or major/minor.

 

My biggest concern, besides flexibility, was to get some college courses out of the way in case she decided at 18yo to go on tour and perform with a dance show. She will be asked to perform (they have been asking since last year and only her age prevented her being able to due to child labor laws in other countries)...I do not know if she will decide to go that route when the time comes, continue her music in another form (solo or as part of a group), or where college will fit into the plan. Trying not to limit her in any way while still allowing her the freedom to follow her dreams.

[The Governess]

 

While I know you are eager to have her start accruing college credits, you might still wait a year to see how everything is going with all high school level courses, or some AP courses, plus possibility even more hours for dancing, before also adding DE headaches in there. Just a thought.

 

 

 

CLEP is the easiest option and least rigorous option. It is also the most flexible option for you to do. For example, you could do home-based materials for an American History credit (required as one of the Social Studies credits for college admission by many schools), and when you've covered enough material to equal a credit in your homeschool, study the CLEP booklet on American History, and then take the CLEP test -- that gives you both your high school credit AND (if the student passes) a college credit in the Social Sciences, which *may* meet a gen. ed. requirement for a college degree.

 

CLEP tests are accepted at almost 3000 colleges and universities, so pretty widely accepted. However, the more selective/competitive or top tier the school, the less likely CLEP is accepted. You can look on each individual college's website to see which CLEPs and APs are accepted, and whether for a required college degree credit, or if just as an elective. These pages on the college websites also usually tell you what score is needed on the AP tests to count as college credit, and also what the maximum limit is for that college for "credit by exam" (CLEP and AP) and transfer credits (DE).

 

If you know which college you will attend, or if you have it narrowed down to 3-6 colleges, it's easy to go look at their websites to see which specific tests count towards specific required credits. Any other tests not lined up to the specific courses required by the specific college will grant credit as an "elective", which does nothing towards knocking out required credits in advance.

 

Whether to do AP, DE, or CLEP as your best option... totally depends on what college you plan on attending.

 

 

 

Yes, the classical methodology as you describe IS rigorous, and you WILL put those things down in your separate course description document, and colleges WILL then see that the credits are rigorous... But not all colleges require, or even look at course description documents, so AP tests and high ACT/SAT scores are the first, fast thing they look at to determine "rigor' and a fairly standardized way of comparing students.

 

I failed to make my point clear (lol). I was not saying you shouldn't do a rigorous *classical* education. What I was trying to say is that many education providers call themselves "classical" with readings from the classics -- but that doesn't mean that it's done at the same high level of rigor as YOUR advanced DD's level or rigorous classical. :) Colleges have no way of knowing *what kind of rigor* is involved in YOUR student's list of credits, unless they read the course description, and even then, they are going to first look at the standardized test scores (AP, ACT/SAT), any DE, and the student's GPA to have a starting point of understanding what YOU mean by "rigorous classical education".

 

What I'm trying to say is: Sure! Go for *classical* rigorous -- AND be sure to also show *rigor* in the way colleges understand it. Does that clarify? :)

 

 

 

 

No way of knowing the future.

 

If you student is accepted into a professional dance company right out of high school, she may want to maximize the short-lifespan of professional dancing, and do it for more like 15-18 years before being ready to go back to school and switch careers. It's awfully hard to get INTO professional dance companies to begin with, which makes it hard to stop until your body is telling you it's time to stop. If that's case, then colleges would likely have greatly changed their degree catalogs, and credits that would have knocked out general ed. requirements now, may no longer be needed, so that a lot of the advance DE or CLEP may no longer help.

 

If your DD takes off more than 1 year after high school graduation (AND it needs to be taken as an official "gap year" after accepting a specific college for attendance) , she will no longer be eligible for freshman scholarships, which are the bulk of scholarships, and the highest awards of money, AND are the renewable (multi-year) scholarships. DD would be a "non-traditional" student, entering college at an older age. She *might* be eligible for transfer scholarships, but transfer scholarships are most often small amounts of money, and are usually just 1-time awards.

 

At this early stage, I'd guess that the best bet is to straddle the fence until it's closer to the time of making the "big decision" -- research and settle on the 6 universities with the best dance programs -- AND programs that have good networking and "feed into" professional dance companies, so that DD gets her degree WHILE furthering her dance training, AND while she has the most opportunities for the largest amount of scholarship $$. Find out what AP and CLEP and DE each accepts. Find out what ACT/SAT scores put your student in the top 25% of incoming freshman -- or even better, the top 10% -- which makes her very desirable to the school for boosting their statistics.

 

Good luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Thanks again, Lori! 

 

Regarding AP/DE/CLEP - I guess it's time to start having some conversations about what she'd like to study outside of dance, and start making a list of colleges.  If she studies dance in college, the goal would be to do it at a school that also has strong academics in something she's interested in.  And she's really only interested in ballet as a dance form (she does modern and tap as well but they are definitely not where her heart is). The number of colleges that have decent ballet programs is actually pretty short - so if I start there, the list might not be too ominous!

 

Her strengths are math and foreign language.  She is also a good writer and loves to read.  It seems like these things aren't related, but I think that there is a common thread - she is really good at identifying patterns.  So she was able to decode words super early, algebra is very intuitive to her and so is Latin - she can easily see the parts in a whole - and this also helps with sentence and paragraph structure, etc.  Same skill applied in different subjects, really.  I'm trying to get a feel for the different fields this talent of hers would be best utilized in, because this type of work seems enjoyable to her.  I'm thinking math, computer science or software engineering, linguistics..... If anyone knows of any other fields that would be a good fit I'd love to hear about them. 

 

And yes, I totally get your point about classical vs. rigorous and what colleges are looking for.  Thanks for that clarification!

 

I would be thrilled if she was able to dance for 15 years.  Unfortunately, it seems rare in the industry.  It's very hard to start a family while dancing (although not impossible), and ballet can be so hard on your body.  I have a feeling this is going to be a take it year-by-year sort of thing. 

 

The plan is for her to apply to colleges, audition for college ballet programs, AND audition for companies and trainee programs during her senior year.  I'm thinking that things are going to have to be a bit lighter academically that year because of this.  I'm feeling stressed just thinking about it, haha!

 

My point being this...be conscious in letting your dd steer the academic wheel.  Not only will it make her more interesting, but it may just guide her if the ballet plans change for whatever reason.  Just when my dd thought she had to reinvent herself, she realized she only had to be more of herself. My advice would be to not be too generic in your studies.  Also, if she is capable, have her take SAT Subject Tests when it lines nicely with her regular subjects - even in 9th or 10th grades.  Selective schools really need those back-up scores. 

 

Thanks for sharing this!  It's a great reminder.  We'll definitely be backing up with scores as much as possible.  I love the idea of having her drive her studies.  Waiting for her to make decisions can sometimes feel like pulling teeth, but maybe this is a project we can sit down and work on together over some upcoming breaks.  ;-)

 

 

Food for thought on this particular point: If your dd dances for 3-4 years and then wants to attend college - her cost-of-attendance would be based upon *her* income at that time (not yours), which might make her eligible for significant financial aid that she might not be eligible for now (since it would be your income taken into account right out of high school). This could be significant at some schools, not-so-much at others, depending on their financial aid policies.

 

 

 

She will be considered a dependent of her parents for FAFSA purposes until age 24, unless she marries.

 

Thanks for these reminders, hopskipjump and goodgrief, this is something I hadn't considered and could make a big difference in college costs if she plans it right!

 

My dd is not a dancer but a musician and we had decisions to make similar to those you are considering. Dd had completed a bit of her high school coursework in 7-8th grade and did 9th grade completely homeschooling. She also is very academically inclined and a hard worker.

 

Once she reached 15yo and was then able to take DE classes through our local college, we went (mostly) with your option #2 but rather than taking courses at the college, dd is taking whatever she is interested in that is offered online. She tours/travels quite a bit and needs the flexibility that comes with doing courses online. She is taking 2 courses a semester through the college and the rest of her coursework in at home or with tutors (one online and the other local). Dd is not pursuing a degree option through the college at this point, just sampling courses she is interested in while completing high school requirements...she is trying to decide if she wishes to pursue music in college, something other than music (while continuing her performances), or some combination with dual major or major/minor.

 

My biggest concern, besides flexibility, was to get some college courses out of the way in case she decided at 18yo to go on tour and perform with a dance show. She will be asked to perform (they have been asking since last year and only her age prevented her being able to due to child labor laws in other countries)...I do not know if she will decide to go that route when the time comes, continue her music in another form (solo or as part of a group), or where college will fit into the plan. Trying not to limit her in any way while still allowing her the freedom to follow her dreams.

 

Thanks for sharing, Donna!  Sounds like we are in similar spots.  Your last sentence is exactly what I am aiming for.  I like the idea of trying some online community college courses.  Something to look into that is more flexible than meeting on campus. 

 

You've all given me some great things to think about, and a lot to research!  Thanks so much for helping me figure this out.  :001_wub:

[Donna]

 

Thanks for sharing, Donna!  Sounds like we are in similar spots.  Your last sentence is exactly what I am aiming for.  I like the idea of trying some online community college courses.  Something to look into that is more flexible than meeting on campus. 

 

You've all given me some great things to think about, and a lot to research!  Thanks so much for helping me figure this out.  :001_wub:

 

A couple other things you also might consider which we hadn't until dd experienced it. In 9th grade dd took AP Music Theory as an online course through PA Homeschoolers. It was very pricey and was a lot of work...dd was a bit stressed by all the work, the self-study aspect, along with all her traveling and other courses and then she disliked not knowing what would be on the exam or where she should focus her studying.

 

Our community college offers the DE courses at a 65% discount for high schoolers who qualify to take the courses (via placement test) so the cost savings is significant...she can basically take about three courses for the price of one PA Homeschoolers AP course. (Not sure how this works in other states/areas.) Most importantly, dd is happier ie.less stressed. The work load is not that much less but she enjoys writing papers, there are lectures to help her learn the material, and she knows what to study in order to do well on the tests/exams. 

[FriedClams]

One thing I'll chime in with is that DE can be very efficient. My understanding is that one semester is worth two high school semesters, so if your student can handle it, it can be great. So, one semester of precalculus can suffice for math for the year. Same with a college level science. It's a great way to get ahead, but it also might be a great way to use time/manage work load more efficiently.

[Corraleno]

Totally agree with you!  It's the rigorous+classical+DE that I am having a hard time finding.  At least in my area, there aren't many DE classes that emphasize classical subjects/methods.  So I would have to abandon some of my classical goals if I went that route.  Or do a combination of DE and non-DE subjects - which might be the solution.

She could do math, lab sciences, and foreign language via DE, and continue to do English and history "the WTM way" —  best of both worlds.

[Pistachio mom]

Have you heard of College Plus, recently renamed Lummerit?

 

They have a program that helps students earn part of all of a degree online or by transferring in to a college. I am investigating this for my musician daughter. If she doesn't get a doable scholarship offer next year, Lumerit would help her get some classes out of the way and negotiate the credit transfer to a 4 year school.

 

I have held off for a while, and I'm not sure if I will even go this route for her senior year. (We have followed a classical plan and have exciting plans for her senior year with academics...) But this is definitely in the back of my mind as college gets closer. I found out about this at a convention. A nice young man who worked for the company in the booth took time to explain some of the options for me and how it might apply to my daughter.

 

This company has helped dancers work on college credits while dancing for a professional company. It is very flexible.

https://lumerit.com/our-systems/

https://getunbound.org/how-it-works

 

Something like this might be an  option for your daughter to follow both of her dreams. affordably.

[klmama]

A problem arises with using Lumerit or other CLEP/transfer plans for performing arts when colleges have a required series of year-long or repeated courses intended to be taken over four years (ie. Voice 1 x two semesters, Voice 2 x two semesters, etc. through Voice 4); many such courses cannot be taken simultaneously or be waived through testing, which eliminates the hoped-for time savings.  If you are considering using Lumerit or other similar plan involving CLEP or transfer credits, be sure to check with potential colleges first so you know the expectations.

[Pistachio mom]

klmama, you are right about performance majors.  I still have to do some checking to see if we can apply this to any general ed classes. If she decides to double major with 2 performance instruments, some extra available time might be needed.

[The Governess]

She could do math, lab sciences, and foreign language via DE, and continue to do English and history "the WTM way" — best of both worlds.

I have been considering exactly this the last couple days. This could be a very good solution!

[The Governess]

Have you heard of College Plus, recently renamed Lummerit?

 

They have a program that helps students earn part of all of a degree online or by transferring in to a college. I am investigating this for my musician daughter. If she doesn't get a doable scholarship offer next year, Lumerit would help her get some classes out of the way and negotiate the credit transfer to a 4 year school.

 

I have held off for a while, and I'm not sure if I will even go this route for her senior year. (We have followed a classical plan and have exciting plans for her senior year with academics...) But this is definitely in the back of my mind as college gets closer. I found out about this at a convention. A nice young man who worked for the company in the booth took time to explain some of the options for me and how it might apply to my daughter.

 

This company has helped dancers work on college credits while dancing for a professional company. It is very flexible.

https://lumerit.com/our-systems/

https://getunbound.org/how-it-works

 

Something like this might be an option for your daughter to follow both of her dreams. affordably.

Thanks for sharing! I will take a look.

[The Governess]

A problem arises with using Lumerit or other CLEP/transfer plans for performing arts when colleges have a required series of year-long or repeated courses intended to be taken over four years (ie. Voice 1 x two semesters, Voice 2 x two semesters, etc. through Voice 4); many such courses cannot be taken simultaneously or be waived through testing, which eliminates the hoped-for time savings. If you are considering using Lumerit or other similar plan involving CLEP or transfer credits, be sure to check with potential colleges first so you know the expectations.

This is good to keep in mind. Thanks for chiming in.

[catz]

I started reading this thread and thought of something. I agree 100% de and rigorous are not mutually exclusive at all. Most kids doing DE here are the kids who need MORE. I live in a state where it’s free but schools are picky about admitting students. We are having a good experience.

 

2nd, I have a kid that does serious music and theater. Flexibility is extremely important for him. He’s a junior but is interested in auditioning for college music programs. Anyway, this semester he is doing 1 online class and 1 hybrid class that meets 1 day a week. Next semester he may just do 2 online classes. Many community colleges have flexible options available. ETA and to be clear he is doing math and Spanish and music and literature outside the CC setting.

 

The other thing we are discovering is that you have to be careful. Do not assume all your DE credits will transfer to any 4 year unless they have a direct up front agreement. That said, I do think it is nice to have at least some DE or AP or SAT subject tests if you are applying to colleges that are at all competitive.

 

I am a huge fan of keeping doors open as long as possible for kids while allowing them to explore their interests and passions.

Edited November 1, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Donna]

The other thing we are discovering is that you have to be careful. Do not assume all your DE credits will transfer to any 4 year unless they have a direct up front agreement. That said, I do think it is nice to have at least some DE or AP or SAT subject tests if you are applying to colleges that are at all competitive.

 

I am a huge fan of keeping doors open as long as possible for kids while allowing them to explore their interests and passions.

 

I agree not all DE credits will transfer depending on the school.

 

For us, DE is a way for dd to (#1) try subject areas she might later be interested in pursuing, gain some grades that aren't "mom given," build a rapport with other educators who might be available for recommendations or be good mentors for her in those other areas, etc... For us, DE courses are significantly less expensive than other options (so I do not really care if they transfer or not as they are serving their purpose for now...giving dd what she needs academically along with the other things mentioned previously) and she is able to do online courses which allows her the flexibility she needs.

[FriedClams]

FWIW, Georgia Tech has a great transfer equivalency section on their webpage. I think it's probably a good benchmark for which classes are safe for DE credit at other colleges too. Ideally, check with the actual they want to attend, but if you can't I think this is probably a good gauge. FWIW, we found the comp my dd was going to take at one college wouldn't transfer to GA Tech, so we're using a different college so it will.

[The Governess]

I just wanted to revisit this old topic that I started at the beginning of our high school journey! 

Dd is still on the same path, pursuing a ballet career, and staying open to multiple paths that might get her there. She’ll be starting her last year of high school in the fall and will be graduating a year early. The current environment with Covid closures, etc. is not the best timing, but we are trying to make the best of it. 

We ended up doing a mix of DE and online classes over the last 3 years. She took online classes with CLRC, Blue Tent, and a couple other providers. She has earned 33 DE credits and will earn another 10-15 credits next year. It’s not the perfectly curated, cohesive, classical education I was hoping for, but it was definitely rigorous, with classical elements. She has done pretty well, but time management has been a challenge and her GPA is definitely lower than it would have been if she had more time to spend on academics, although it’s still good. 

DE classes included two history classes, computer programming, pre-calc, calculus, biology with lab, general physics with lab, and photography.

Online courses included 3 years of Blue Tent English, Latin with Lukeion and CLRC, Chemistry with WTMA, Physics with Clover Creek, Chinese with FLVS, Honors Algebra 2 with Derek Owens, Geometry with Mr. D. We tried a couple other random courses here and there for other subjects that “checked the box.”

You may wonder, what’s the rush? Well, she’s in the position where, if she wants to dance, she needs to move on to higher level training sooner rather than later, whether that is through a company training program (and in that case I don’t want her trying to finish high school while adjusting!) or through a college program. There isn’t anything within commuting distance of us that is at that level. So, she’s decided to graduate early so she can move on to that next stage.

This year she only has 1.5 classes left to fulfill her graduation requirements, so she’s taking several classes that are just based on her own interests, which will be nice! She’ll take:

-statistics (DE)

- composition (DE)

-Literature (DE)

-possible elective TBD (DE)

-Environmental Science

-Economics (1 semester)

-Computer Graphics and Design (1 semester)

-Astronomy (1 semester)

-Intro to Philosophy (1 semester)

She’ll apply to 4-5 colleges that offer a ballet major (and maybe double major - she’s interested in math and education), and will also be auditioning for year-round training programs at several ballet company schools. If she doesn’t go straight to college, she will take a year off of school to just focus on dance. If she does go straight to college, she will hopefully have enough credits transferred in to make double majoring feasible. 

Its going to be an interesting year. We will certainly be doing a lot of research this summer, and she’ll be prepping to take the SAT one last time (assuming the fall dates don’t end up being cancelled).  Anyway, just wanted to give an update and see how things are going for the other dance moms that found themselves in a similar position back when I originally posted. 

[fourisenough]

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you and your daughter have navigated tricky years well and have been successful in giving her an excellent academic foundation, no matter whether she goes the professional dancer route or college first. 
 

You’re smart to want to complete her secondary education before sending her off. My DD moved away at 13 (turned 14 three months into the year)/9th grade. She spent one year in a private coaching situation before moving the next year to a company-affiliated training program. Many of the dancers there don’t really do much school and, IMHO, are the victims of educational neglect. Of the two groups of pre-pros (approximately 20 in each), she was one of two who sat the PSAT and/or took AP exams this year. A handful of the older girls have graduated/completed their education, but the vast majority are still, theoretically, students. Most do some sort of accredited online education, but are able to complete their work in 1-2 hours daily. Luckily, my DD is a strong, intrinsically motivated student so it hasn’t been a battle for us. However, I can see the advantage of having one year to focus exclusively on ballet, having time to really devote to her training and audition season without the pressures of school. 
 

If you end up going the college route, I recommend looking at Butler University In Indianapolis. Although I was not a dancer, I loved my time there and received an excellent liberal arts education that prepared me well for graduate school. Both of my older girls chose to study nursing, so neither ended up at BU, but my dancer has no interest in a career in nursing, so I’m sure Butler will be on her radar.

[The Governess]

5 hours ago, fourisenough said:

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you and your daughter have navigated tricky years well and have been successful in giving her an excellent academic foundation, no matter whether she goes the professional dancer route or college first. 
 

You’re smart to want to complete her secondary education before sending her off. My DD moved away at 13 (turned 14 three months into the year)/9th grade. She spent one year in a private coaching situation before moving the next year to a company-affiliated training program. Many of the dancers there don’t really do much school and, IMHO, are the victims of educational neglect. Of the two groups of pre-pros (approximately 20 in each), she was one of two who sat the PSAT and/or took AP exams this year. A handful of the older girls have graduated/completed their education, but the vast majority are still, theoretically, students. Most do some sort of accredited online education, but are able to complete their work in 1-2 hours daily. Luckily, my DD is a strong, intrinsically motivated student so it hasn’t been a battle for us. However, I can see the advantage of having one year to focus exclusively on ballet, having time to really devote to her training and audition season without the pressures of school. 
 

If you end up going the college route, I recommend looking at Butler University In Indianapolis. Although I was not a dancer, I loved my time there and received an excellent liberal arts education that prepared me well for graduate school. Both of my older girls chose to study nursing, so neither ended up at BU, but my dancer has no interest in a career in nursing, so I’m sure Butler will be on her radar.

 

Thanks for the update! The scenario you describe is exactly my fear and why I want her to finish high school first. I know these dancers have limited time and energy, and I know that my dd would probably put her academics last in a situation like that. 😉She doesn’t do well juggling a lot of balls without support. I’m glad to hear your dd has managed to stay focused in that environment! The dance students I know that didn’t end up with a dance career after light academics in high school have all ended up starting at the CC after a few years of dance training, and it’s worked out ok for them, just a bit of a late start.

Yes, Butler is on our list! We were supposed to take a trip to Indiana last week to visit Butler and Indiana.... obviously that didn’t happen! Hopefully we’ll be able to do a few campus visits this year. 😬

Glad your dd is doing well and hope she continues to be able to balance everything! 

 

[Kristini2]

I happened onto this thread when searching for Chinese classes, but it has given me so much food for thought as we venture into HS with my serious ballet student. She is also hoping to graduate early (will be 16/almost 17 if she takes four years in high school) and to then put a good effort into getting a contract/trainee position/etc. right out of high school. She will be spending this year at home/online then hopes to do DE once she is old enough. Wishing you and your dancer a great senior year. Mine can’t wait to get back into the studio.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Kristini2