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Moxie

In which I am reminded why I quit homeschooling

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It's no secret that a majority of hs'ers are Evangelical Protestant Christians.   

 

I do not think this is correct. You can't really go by stuff like what is sold at homeschooling conventions, because secular homeschoolers will buy public school texts, lol. 

 

It's funny, because my only awareness of homeschooling for a long time was John Holt, "free the children," stereotypical California hippie style  :laugh:

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I've never met a Evangelical Protestant Christian homeschooler in person.

 

While I've never personally met an Evangelical Homeschooler here in NYC, they definitely exist. I've bumped into their homeschooling groups before while googling.

 

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Have you ever lived in New York City area, New Jersey or Connecticut?

 

I've never met a Evangelical Protestant Christian homeschooler in person.

 

I have met Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, gay, and single parent homeschoolers.

 

Obviously we have very different experiences.

 

That's why I added the caveat, 'especially in certain areas'.

 

I'm in a very Catholic area now.  There's a lot more 'live and let live'. :)  I don't even think there's a co-op past age 6, though, and schooling regulations are tighter, making you prove you're giving your child an adequate education.  That's also not the same everywhere. We've lived in a lot of places with absolutely no regulation and that's where religion took the front seat over education. 

I remember once where we were invited, as part of the state homeschooling group, to go see the President.  The presence was overwhelmingly religious - and I'm talking enough of us to fill the side of the arena behind the podium.   But I've schooled in lots of different areas, and even if not homeschooling for religious reasons, the majority were Evangelical Protestant. 

 

I'm not saying EPs are bad.  I'm saying that there can, and sometimes is, a tendency to take that faith and use it as a measuring stick or weapon when the majority.  I don't know of any other group that has cared about my bedroom enough to try to make me sign a statement, or has specifically written regulations to keep out other branches of Christianity in an underhanded way so they could teach writing and 5 In A Row in a group setting.  I don't care what a person believes individually, but I do care when a faith is used to take away opportunities from other children and leave them without a support group.

 

FWIW, my son now goes to a synagogue for a weekly class and we're both happy with it.  His teacher is lovely and has no intention of converting him or scolding him for eating bacon with his oatmeal.

 

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Is this another one of those bash Christian threads? Or, is it another I am so politically correct threads? Or, is it another I am holier than all others thread? Yawn....

 

So, what does it take for us to get off the internet anonymously bashing others and put that time to good use doing something about what we believe in? Personally, I am too comfortable in this bed.

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:cursing:

 

One of our co-ops Is struggling a bit to adapt to our LGBTQ population, but no one has been asked to leave. It's not an explicitly religious co-op, though.

 

For the most part, my (large radius) area has been actively accepting of everyone. Though I did recently find out that teaching from an evolutionary foundation is considered "an agenda" by some people.  :huh:

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See, to me that kind of behavior on the part of the adult homeschoolers sounds just like the worst aspects a bad school (esp. junior high and high school):

 

We won't accept you if you're different.

 

You can't be who you really are if you want to have friends.

 

Conform, conform, conform.

 

It reminds me that there is a large segment of homeschoolers who aren't opposed to what I perceive as the cruel and degrading aspects of schooling. They just want to have control over who gets excluded. I will say, out of hope, that if that girl was actually able to share her truth with others there, maybe-- hopefully-- she is correct that some of them are deserving of such information, and will be propelled to think critically about their own prejudices and fears and motivated to question and rethink rather than to fear and shun. I admire her courage.

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Is this another one of those bash Christian threads? Or, is it another I am so politically correct threads? Or, is it another I am holier than all others thread? Yawn....

 

So, what does it take for us to get off the internet anonymously bashing others and put that time to good use doing something about what we believe in? Personally, I am too comfortable in this bed.

Well, of course it is! We evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers are the scourge of the world, doncha know! 😂

 

Btw, I need to get off the internet and get ready to go to... church. Lol

Edited by Kinsa
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I am in an area where I know only one other Catholic homeschooler. Everyone else is evangelical. I actually knew one agnostic family that confided in me but they actually lied to people and said they went to the big Baptist church so they could participate in activities.They left the area to go where they could have some peers.

 

It is a tough crowd for sure. I am "allowed" to attend events though I won't sign the SOF to be a full member. I have met a couple nice ladies that will make small talk with me and allow their kids to play with mine at the park.

 

It is very isolating. I consider myself so conservative yet at any homeschool function I am the most progressive person in the room. Which is a joke I tell to my liberal friends that live out of town but it is truth.

 

I have been homeschooling 15 years and just moved to this town 2 years ago. If this had been in my younger years I would have had a very hard time. I'm now confident enough in my decisions and I know I don't need the support of a group or co-op to homeschool. But it still can lonely and frustrating.

 

I hear you, OP. I'm still going to homeschool but it is a tough climate to homeschool in.

 

I keep finding myself saying "we don't all need to be exactly the same." But homeschooling here is certainly not diverse.

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Have you ever lived in New York City area, New Jersey or Connecticut?

 

I've never met a Evangelical Protestant Christian homeschooler in person.

 

I have met Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, gay, and single parent homeschoolers.

 

Obviously we have very different experiences.

 

Yes, there are great regional differences.

I am in a small town in the rural Midwest. The vast majority of homeschoolers here are protestant Christians. The secular community is tiny and vastly outnumbered by the hundreds of families in the local Christian homeschool network. (And the secular group contains also Christian homeschoolers who did not seek out the specifically Christian group.)

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Well, of course it is! We evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers are the scourge of the world, doncha know! 😂

 

Btw, I need to get off the internet and get ready to go to... church. Lol

Well, to be fair, Moxie didn’t castigate Christianity as a whole or even a large subset of it. No one said that EP’s or other Christians are a scouge on society. Moxie seemed to be specifically talking about a particular group in her area - an area that seems rife with the worst of exclusionary tactics.

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Well, to be fair, Moxie didn’t castigate Christianity as a whole or even a large subset of it. No one said that EP’s or other Christians are a scouge on society. Moxie seemed to be specifically talking about a particular group in her area - an area that seems rife with the worst of exclusionary tactics.

Oh, I know. And I like Moxie. But the general direction of this thread is yet another gripe session about evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers. It does get old.

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This.

I don’t know a SINGLE secular(non Protestant conservative) homeschooler in my area. In fact two of the local (only) homeschool groups include “a commitment to traditional heterosexual marriage†in their statement of faith.

 

It is really location dependent.

We are the only secular homeschoolers in our area that I know of.   I wish we had more diversity.

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While I've never personally met an Evangelical Homeschooler here in NYC, they definitely exist. I've bumped into their homeschooling groups before while googling.

Really?  Two homeschoolers on this board have NEVER met an evangelical homeschooler?  You obviously don't live in the south.  I can't even imagine being in an area with a group of homeschoolers that I might be able to talk openly with.

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Oh, I know. And I like Moxie. But the general direction of this thread is yet another gripe session about evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers. It does get old.

Shoe fits? Truth hurts.

 

If not, then I guess you shouldn't take offense because it's not directed at you.

 

Want to change the general perception of EC homeschoolers? Try working to change your community from the inside. Silence is complicity.

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Shoe fits? Truth hurts.

 

If not, then I guess you shouldn't take offense because it's not directed at you.

 

Want to change the general perception of EC homeschoolers? Try working to change your community from the inside. Silence is complicity.

Lol - no, the "truth" doesn't hurt.

 

And what do you know about my workings within the homeschool community?

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So gross.

 

It is hilarious to me that I am concidered liberal by the local hs groups when 99.5% of America would consider me ultra-conservative.

 

A local teen mentioned to a friend that she might be *gay*. I know!! Shocking right?!? Gay people actually exist outside of Evil Hollywood. Who knew??

 

Anyway, this child now might be asked to leave the local hs groups. Adults are having meeting to decide if this child poses a risk to the immortal souls of their own precious babies.

 

So damn gross.

 

I just don't understand people.  That poor kid.

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Well, of course it is! We evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers are the scourge of the world, doncha know! 😂

 

Btw, I need to get off the internet and get ready to go to... church. Lol

I’m sorry if you are offended but I’m just telling it like it is. It is a Christian homeschool group which is code for Evangelical Protestant. There were two Catholic families before we quit. There are no Mormon families. Most of them are not Lutheran or Baptist. The majority go to the big Christian mega churches in our town.

 

ETA-I’m glad you like me because I like you too! And I’m sorry you feel picked on. But this is a real problem in a community you belong to. I would think you’d want to know more about it to help fix it.

Edited by Moxie
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We are the only secular homeschoolers in our area that I know of. I wish we had more diversity.

We are the only secular homeschooling family I'm aware of and we live in a large metropolitan area in the southeast. There are many religious-based co-ops. I often feel like an outsider attending HS events though it doesn't stop me from attending; we just tend to stick to ourselves. Its very isolating at times.

Edited by tdbates78
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Well, of course it is! We evangelical protestant Christian homeschoolers are the scourge of the world, doncha know! 😂

 

Btw, I need to get off the internet and get ready to go to... church. Lol

Haha, I just got back! And how timely, we had a great sermon on the stronger brother/weaker brother/faith and love for one another section of Romans 14. And education was specifically brought up as an issue where we can make different choices and no one is more or less holy for it, unless we denigrate or seek to injure/trap them over it (in which case we are the ones sinning, not them) or if the weaker brother tries to compel another believer to behave like them (legalism). It was such a good reminder that we won’t be standing before God for our school choices, worship preferences, or style of dress. But we will absolutely be called to account for how well we loved one another and loved him in how we went about our behavior in the body and the world, too.

 

I hope your Sunday was blessed and more restful than the field trip marathon bonanza that was Saturday :grouphug:

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Shoe fits? Truth hurts.

 

If not, then I guess you shouldn't take offense because it's not directed at you.

 

Want to change the general perception of EC homeschoolers? Try working to change your community from the inside. Silence is complicity.

Oh this is silly. So if our local group or co op is kind and friendly, and we ourselves don’t treat people shamefully, we are still complicit with the people who do? This is exactly the kind of lumping-everyone-together stuff that Karen and I are talking about. Religious homeschoolers aren’t a monolithic group - there are unloving, sinful jerks who hide behind claims of righteousness while being cruel and spiteful, or holding biblical beliefs but acting upon them in an inappropriate way. It’s sin, and sometimes just plain immaturity. But it’s also not something to complain about large swaths of the homeschooling population, as though everyone behaves that way, or even most. They don’t. Jerks flocks together like birds of a feather, but that doesn’t mean much more than that. Edited by Arctic Mama
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Kinsa and Amy in NH:

 

Take it to PM.

 

This is not helpful.

 

Thread will be locked if it continues downhill.

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I recommend that people work on finding other homeschooling families with whom they click and enjoy spending time with. Then start to share resources and parental expertise. That's what a co-op is.

 

If you are looking for an all inclusive secular group, don't join a religious co-op and then complain. Look for people that you personally enjoy, that share your values and beliefs, and move on.

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I recommend that people work on finding other homeschooling families with whom they click and enjoy spending time with. Then start to share resources and parental expertise. That's what a co-op is.

 

If you are looking for an all inclusive secular group, don't join a religious co-op and then complain. Look for people that you personally enjoy, that share your values and beliefs, and move on.

Sorry, did you miss the part where I mentioned that this child has been homeschooled since day 1? And has always been a member of this group?? Did you also miss all the posts from those of us who do not have secular groups within a day’s drive??

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I recommend that people work on finding other homeschooling families with whom they click and enjoy spending time with. Then start to share resources and parental expertise. That's what a co-op is.

 

If you are looking for an all inclusive secular group, don't join a religious co-op and then complain. Look for people that you personally enjoy, that share your values and beliefs, and move on.

 

That's what I did, but I was lucky to be living in a big city with enough homeschoolers to form an inclusive group. 

 

It still did hurt, the shunning. And that's as a parent. I feel sorry for this kid. It's not like her parents knew five years ahead of time she might come out as gay.

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Have you ever lived in New York City area, New Jersey or Connecticut?

 

I've never met a Evangelical Protestant Christian homeschooler in person.

 

I have met Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, gay, and single parent homeschoolers.

 

Obviously we have very different experiences.

 

I'm in New Jersey and I have met all of the above.  There are a lot of co-ops that require a SOF that I could not sign as a liberal, UMC Christian.  Although even the homeschoolers I know that are YE and Evangelical Protestant, seem to be of more of a live and let live bent than those people talk about on here.  At least when they are part of mainstream organizations (I have a bunch in my 4-H group).  If I didn't know them pretty well and for years, I might not even realize.

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It should be of no surprise that a conservative, religious group is following the teachings in a holy book which states that premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, and incest are sexual sins and strictly forbidden.

 

Now, you may not agree with any of that, but many are homeschooling because they believe that the secular, anything goes, puplic school/society culture is ungodly and sexually sinful. Again, you may think that those beliefs are a bunch of bunk, but they have the right to have a co-op with whomever they want. To them, it's a serious matter.

 

Also, the church historically practiced what could been seen as shunning. That if a person was continuing in a sexual sin and refusing to repent, that person was to be excluded from the group until they repented. The example in scripture was of a man in a sexual relationship with his father's wife. The church members were chastized for allowing the couple to be in their midst and part of the community. The community was instructed to exclude the couple until they repented and stopped their sexual relationship. The co-op you're talking about is probably grappling with this issue in the situation you (OP) mentioned.

 

Again, you may totally not believe in any of it, but those homeschool families, like others from other conservative faiths, have a right to follow their religion, and have freedom to assemble with those who are like-minded.

 

ETA I am talking about this issue in general. I know that there are young people in the church who struggle with fitting in and being accepted. Church members are all grappling with this issue.

Edited by Fifiruth
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It should be of no surprise that a conservative, religious group is following the teachings in a holy book which states that premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, and incest are sexual sins and strictly forbidden.

 

I thought we were not supposed to be lumping all Christians together?

Edited by ILiveInFlipFlops
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It should be of no surprise that a conservative, religious group is following the teachings in a holy book which states that premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, and incest are sexual sins and strictly forbidden.

 

Now, you may not agree with any of that, but many are homeschooling because they believe that the secular, anything goes, puplic school/society culture is ungodly and sexually sinful. Again, you may think that those beliefs are a bunch of bunk, but they have the right to have a co-op with whomever they want. To them, it's a serious matter.

 

Also, the church historically practiced what could been seen as shunning. That if a person was continuing in a sexual sin and refusing to repent, that person was to be excluded from the group until they repented. The example in scripture was of a man in a sexual relationship with his father's wife. The church members were chastized for allowing the couple to be in their midst and part of the community. The community was instructed to exclude the couple until they repented and stopped their sexual relationship. The co-op you're talking about is probably grappling with this issue in the situation you (OP) mentioned.

 

Again, you may totally not believe in any of it, but those homeschool families, like others from other conservative faiths, have a right to follow their religion, and have freedom to assemble with those who are like-minded.

 

ETA I am talking about this issue in general. I know that there are young people in the church who struggle with fitting in and being accepted. Church members are all grappling with this issue.

 

They do. But it sounds like the young girl is identifying, not practicing. Is identity a sin ? I thought not, which was why in this world view, lesbians and gays are called to be chaste.

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I am not commenting on seeing homosexuality listed next to bestiality, but have a question:

 

Also, the church historically practiced what could been seen as shunning. That if a person was continuing in a sexual sin and refusing to repent, that person was to be excluded from the group until they repented.

 

What sin is a teen committing who thinks she might be gay?

Also, what can she possibly "repent"?

 

Edited by regentrude
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I am not commenting on seeing homosexuality listed next to bestiality, but have a question:

 

 

What sin is a teen committing who thinks she might be gay?

Also, what can she possibly "repent"?

I think that some people interpret scripture to include thoughts. So thinking she might be gay would be a sin and require repentance.

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I think that some people interpret scripture to include thoughts. So thinking she might be gay would be a sin and require repentance.

 

Wow. That's another level of...interesting...

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I am not commenting on seeing homosexuality listed next to bestiality, but have a question:

 

 

What sin is a teen committing who thinks she might be gay?

Also, what can she possibly "repent"?

I get what she is saying, but personally I do think the co op is being stupid in this. A child struggling with their sexuality, Christian or otherwise, is not a threat to a healthy, solid Christian worldview. And quite frankly if they’re maintaining the standards of conduct and work for the co op I see zero issue - the co op is not their stand in Holy Spirit.

 

That’s what drives me up the wall about these discussions - plenty of Christians homeschoolers, myself included, would not make a big snit out of some poor kid confiding in a friend that she might be gay. It has approximately zero to do with the co op or even a statement of beliefs, because the sexuality is immaterial to the beliefs in the day to day practice. It’s not the time or place for others outside the family to debate if no conduct is being violated. I think that should go for everyone - no boyfriends or girlfriends in co op, keep it private and focus on fun and fellowship.

 

And I’m far from a squishy liberal Christian marshmallow.

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I thought we were not supposed to be lumping all Christians together?

I remember back in the 90s when coops insisted they were not churches, and did not have the authority of churches. Ah, the good old days...

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I get what she is saying, but personally I do think the co op is being stupid in this. A child struggling with their sexuality, Christian or otherwise, is not a threat to a healthy, solid Christian worldview. And quite frankly if they’re maintaining the standards of conduct and work for the co op I see zero issue - the co op is not their stand in Holy Spirit.

 

That’s what drives me up the wall about these discussions - plenty of Christians homeschoolers, myself included, would not make a big snit out of some poor kid confiding in a friend that she might be gay. It has approximately zero to do with the co op or even a statement of beliefs, because the sexuality is immaterial to the beliefs in the day to day practice. It’s not the time or place for others outside the family to debate if no conduct is being violated. I think that should go for everyone - no boyfriends or girlfriends in co op, keep it private and focus on fun and fellowship.

 

And I’m far from a squishy liberal Christian marshmallow.

Arctic, it would be really nice if the others in my area felt the same way you do.

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Personally, I think that each family in the co-op should have a private conversation with their own children about the issue of whether or not homosexuality is sinful. As a group, everyone should be kind and gracious to the young woman because, ultimately, God will judge sin, not us, and being on the receiving end of judgmentalism is harsh and hurtful.

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I get what she is saying, but personally I do think the co op is being stupid in this. A child struggling with their sexuality, Christian or otherwise, is not a threat to a healthy, solid Christian worldview. And quite frankly if they’re maintaining the standards of conduct and work for the co op I see zero issue - the co op is not their stand in Holy Spirit.

 

That’s what drives me up the wall about these discussions - plenty of Christians homeschoolers, myself included, would not make a big snit out of some poor kid confiding in a friend that she might be gay. It has approximately zero to do with the co op or even a statement of beliefs, because the sexuality is immaterial to the beliefs in the day to day practice. It’s not the time or place for others outside the family to debate if no conduct is being violated. I think that should go for everyone - no boyfriends or girlfriends in co op, keep it private and focus on fun and fellowship.

 

And I’m far from a squishy liberal Christian marshmallow.

^^^ITA. Unless there is a behavioral issue at the co-op (most have a no boyfriend/girlfriend relationships during co-op), I don’t see why it needs to be a co-op concern at all.

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My child had to quit public school after some parents decided my child was gay and banned their kids from associating with mine. And the school actually removed their children from the classroom my son was in when the parents requested it. I have heard from a couple parents that they had to remove their children who were actually gay from public school due to tolerance of exclusion and bullying from the administration. Meanwhile, my child had no trouble finding acceptance with the Christian home school groups. So I would not exempt public schools from this behavior nor would I blame homeschoolers.

Edited by Janeway
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And to be honest, I really don’t care if some conservative Christian group expects the people in their group to follow the rules of their religion. As long as they are not reaching out to the other groups, like public school, and demanding that they to follow their one religion then I’m fine with it.

Edited by Janeway
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I think that some people interpret scripture to include thoughts. So thinking she might be gay would be a sin and require repentance.

 

I do think it's possible to sin in one's thoughts (see, for example, Matthew 5). However, I see no Scriptural reason why merely thinking about whether or not one might be gay would be a sin, and I don't think most Christians would consider it to be one.

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I do think it's possible to sin in one's thoughts (see, for example, Matthew 5). However, I see no Scriptural reason why merely thinking about whether or not one might be gay would be a sin, and I don't think most Christians would consider it to be one.

It is usually and interpretation of Matthew 5:28. There are churches in this area that do teach that this verse means what you think can be sin, and because they view homosexuality is sin, then thinking that you might be homosexual would be a sin in their eyes.

 

I am not saying most or whatever would believe this, but for SOF type groups who believe this, then it naturally follows that they have judged her as sinning for thinking it.

Edited by FaithManor

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I live in a veeeery conservative area and it's so lonely and isolating. Even though I consider myself conservative in some ways and liberal in others. The homeschool groups in this area are incredibly close minded and unwelcoming. They have statements of faith with YEC written right in, along with statement that exclude Mormons, Catholics, JW, etc. Never mind those evil gays. My Oldest is bi and the Christian "love" she feels in this area has driven her away from the church and she considers herself a non-Christian right now.

 

If this isn't your experience with homeschoolers, count your blessings.

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