unauthorized blood work

[Scarlett]

I'm surprised so many would think this was okay because of the nature of the test.  The nature of it makes no difference.  What makes a difference is that we are in charge of our own bodies and medical choices and no doctor has a right to violate that.

 

I get that in this case it was a mistake and those happen.

 

 

I don't agree or disagree because of the nature of the test.  I just can't see where the actual harm came in.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm not sure I agree with this.  While it is not the specific case here, let's say that someone wanted to do a case study, but couldn't get people to come in to have blood drawn.  So they start using blood that has been drawn from people, without their consent, because hey - its just an extra test.  The blood draw was authorized so they can test for whatever they want?  So now as a patient I have to worry that the medical establishment may have data about my blood that I don't know about? 

 

Even if the original blood draw was authorized, it is still an unauthorized test.  And I think any lawyer using your argument above would lose in court.

 

I agree that it is an unauthorized test.  And I agree with the concerns you have.  But I was agreeing with Cosmos that it wasn't a medical procedure.  (I say "agree" but we were actually posting at the same time so I didn't see her post until after I posted mine). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I completely agree with your thoughts about cholesterol. 

 

That said, having worked in a high thoughput lab, I can assure you that mistakes happen.  The technician was probably on autopilot or maybe was ordered by a superior to do the test.  Or maybe they thought they were doing you a favor. 

 

You have the right to expect that you not be charged, but probably not much else.

 

I totally understand this too.  I imagine there was absolutely no malicious intent.  They probably order those tests over and over and over again...every day.  Having it not there on the sheet they probably figured it was an accidental omission.  Many people aren't aware that some people don't buy into the cholesterol thing. 

 

I don't care if they test mine or not (but I also don't have to pay extra for it).  I wouldn't take drugs for it though. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't agree or disagree because of the nature of the test.  I just can't see where the actual harm came in.  

 

Maybe the harm is being stressed out by it.  I am stressed out by anything medical. So being told my cholesterol was elevated would stress me out (and then I'd reject drugs...and be further stressed out).  So I do get just saying...don't do it please...I don't want to know and be stressed out.  And that is anyone's right to reject such a thing. 

[Scarlett]

Maybe the harm is being stressed out by it.  I am stressed out by anything medical. So being told my cholesterol was elevated would stress me out (and then I'd reject drugs...and be further stressed out).  So I do get just saying...don't do it please...I don't want to know and be stressed out.  And that is anyone's right to reject such a thing. 

 

 

I see. Well, I can understand that. I would just want to know in case it is super high and I needed to adjust my lifestyle.  I doubt I would take drugs for it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I see. Well, I can understand that. I would just want to know in case it is super high and I needed to adjust my lifestyle.  I doubt I would take drugs for it.

 

My doc gives out very outdated info.  Like eat low fat.  So I wouldn't take her advice anyway.  And I've already adjusted my lifestyle. There isn't anything more I could do.  Some of my family members have notoriously high cholesterol despite being very healthy and despite following traditional advice.  I've already made up my mind that I would not be willing to take statins.  (My cholesterol is fine at this point...but as I said many of my family members do have high cholesterol.)

 

I did find a new doc though that I'm seeing in November. 

[flopsymopsy]

Just want to add that I would be furious too. The benefit of the test is irrelevant. I am thankful it was an error and not a direct disregard of your wishes.

 

 

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[Kanin]

This reminds me of the time I got a letter from my insurance company that quoted things I said to the doctor, verbatim. The doctor must have taken  detailed notes (good!), but I had no idea the doctor's notes went straight to the insurance company. Perhaps doctors have to write detailed information when they request lab tests, or something? I have no idea.

My insurance company then raised my premiums because they claimed something I said to the doctor contradicted something I'd said about my good health in the past. The whole ordeal was terrifying and felt very intrusive, and now I have a hard time sharing my full concerns with doctors. 

[goldberry]

I don't agree or disagree because of the nature of the test.  I just can't see where the actual harm came in.  

 

Is it okay to violate someone's right of choice if no "actual harm" is caused (according to who, anyway?)  The violation of right is a harm in itself.  She had her own reasons for making the choice.  No one else has to understand them or agree with them.

 

I am reminded of a problem we had with a friend when my daughter was younger.  Her best friend's brother was severely ADHD and the mom mostly excused his behavior as being "just a boy".  He was always poking and putting his hands on DD, and as she hit puberty she *just didn't like it*.  The mom considered DD being ridiculous because "what harm was he doing?" 

 

I think that honoring a person's right of choice is *especially* important for medical professionals because of the potential for violation there, and because we are dealing with bodily autonomy issues.

[Scarlett]

Is it okay to violate someone's right of choice if no "actual harm" is caused (according to who, anyway?)  The violation of right is a harm in itself.  She had her own reasons for making the choice.  No one else has to understand them or agree with them.

 

I am reminded of a problem we had with a friend when my daughter was younger.  Her best friend's brother was severely ADHD and the mom mostly excused his behavior as being "just a boy".  He was always poking and putting his hands on DD, and as she hit puberty she *just didn't like it*.  The mom considered DD being ridiculous because "what harm was he doing?" 

 

I think that honoring a person's right of choice is *especially* important for medical professionals because of the potential for violation there, and because we are dealing with bodily autonomy issues.

 

 

I guess I was thinking from more of a legal aspect....I don't know.....what do I know.  

[Scarlett]

This reminds me of the time I got a letter from my insurance company that quoted things I said to the doctor, verbatim. The doctor must have taken  detailed notes (good!), but I had no idea the doctor's notes went straight to the insurance company. Perhaps doctors have to write detailed information when they request lab tests, or something? I have no idea.

My insurance company then raised my premiums because they claimed something I said to the doctor contradicted something I'd said about my good health in the past. The whole ordeal was terrifying and felt very intrusive, and now I have a hard time sharing my full concerns with doctors. 

 

 

The whole thing with doctors and insurance is beyond disturbing.  Insurance determines if my husband can be on a certain blood thinner or not.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.   And I know there is no confidentiality in the medical field....people are fooling themselves if they think there is.  I mean sure, we have all these HIPPPA rules and the receptionist is super careful to turn papers face down as you approach her desk, but EVERYTHING is on the net and anyone who cares enough can find it.

[kroe1]

This reminds me of the time I got a letter from my insurance company that quoted things I said to the doctor, verbatim. The doctor must have taken detailed notes (good!), but I had no idea the doctor's notes went straight to the insurance company. Perhaps doctors have to write detailed information when they request lab tests, or something? I have no idea.

My insurance company then raised my premiums because they claimed something I said to the doctor contradicted something I'd said about my good health in the past. The whole ordeal was terrifying and felt very intrusive, and now I have a hard time sharing my full concerns with doctors.

I have worked in the medical world for twenty years and did a stent in insurance before that. This scares me more than anything. It is the biggest change in medicine I have seen during this time. We have gone from a system where doctors kept two lines on an index card about each visit to very detailed records of almost every word the doctor hears and then remembers to record. This is kept online where almost any Joe Blow can eventually grab illegally, and any insurance company can grab legally.

 

This verbiage is now reduced to ICD-10 (or other numbers before) that will remain with you the REST of your life. There is no way to escape these codes and the impact they have on everything medical that happens to you in the future. Talk about a red letter “Xâ€!

 

Off my high horse now....

[SparklyUnicorn]

It also scares me too because they are so inept at keeping data protected. 

 

 

[Catwoman]

YES.........^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS EXACTLY.

 

I have severe anxiety. I have had some pretty severe false scares in the past. Kidney Cancer was one huge one. Big, big mistake made by radiologist, which in turn made me have multiple, painful, unnecessary, expensive further testing to rule it out. For a whole month I had to wait and wait to see if I had cancer or not. I was a wreck.

 

I also had a blood cancer scare. Had to wait 8 weeks for a Heme appt all for him to tell me I only had Anemia.

 

Yea, so I am all set with tests. I only have the ones that I know I need to have done. I am against many pre-screenings. I do not need to go into another meltdown mode over idiotic people who can't read results, or the results may not be accurate, false positives and calls for further testing and further anxiety.

 

My Cholesterol levels are not even accurate because they were not even done as a fasting blood test. Unreal.

I'm so sorry you've had such terrible (and terrifying!) experiences! No wonder you don't trust doctors and want as much control over your own health as possible!!! :grouphug:

Edited October 18, 2017 by Catwoman

[FaithManor]

This reminds me of the time I got a letter from my insurance company that quoted things I said to the doctor, verbatim. The doctor must have taken  detailed notes (good!), but I had no idea the doctor's notes went straight to the insurance company. Perhaps doctors have to write detailed information when they request lab tests, or something? I have no idea.

My insurance company then raised my premiums because they claimed something I said to the doctor contradicted something I'd said about my good health in the past. The whole ordeal was terrifying and felt very intrusive, and now I have a hard time sharing my full concerns with doctors. 

I had something similar happen. Unfortunately, I think that doctors want to get paid, need to get paid, so if insurance wants to ask questions that they should.not.be.privy.to, some docs will violate doctor/patient confidentiality and tell.

 

As a result, my current doc and nurse practitioner have a hard time with me because I am VERY private which kind of doesn't help them out, but I am also very aware that anything I say in there can be used against me later causing major problems in the future.

 

Not a good thing. But, it is what it is.

[eternalsummer]

I had a similar thing happen with one pregnancy.  I was self-pay, so labs I paid out of pocket 100% (they weren't part of the global prenatal cost).  So when they took my blood for the prenatal panel, I said to the nurse practitioner and to the person drawing my blood that I didn't want anything unnecessary - specifically, no STD testing, no blood type (this was the same ob-gyn I'd used for the previous pregnancy the year before, so it's not like my blood type changed), no titers for anything I was cleared on last year, etc.).  Both the nurse and the lab lady said they would not order those parts of the tests.

 

Lo and behold, when I get the bill it is for $750, including HIV, Syphillis, blood type, etc.  !!!

 

I was annoyed about the cost but more annoyed that they had agreed not to test those things and then just did it anyway.  

 

 

If it is absolutely necessary for the doctor's office to test you for cholesterol, or STDs, or chickenpox immunity, in order to continue being a patient there, fine - but they must state that.  They can't just tell you no, we won't order those tests, then test you for it anyway because it's in your best interest.

 

I'm not 4 years old.  I can make my own medical decisions, and am legally allowed to do so.

[MBM]

Off track, but my husband just attended a conference this week where someone from England discussed how artificial intelligence is being used to identify who is developing dementia by tracking individuals' grocery buying habits over a period of time. The results have been eerily accurate. I am not sure of the details yet because dh is still traveling.

[creekland]

The whole thing with doctors and insurance is beyond disturbing.  Insurance determines if my husband can be on a certain blood thinner or not.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.   And I know there is no confidentiality in the medical field....people are fooling themselves if they think there is.  I mean sure, we have all these HIPPPA rules and the receptionist is super careful to turn papers face down as you approach her desk, but EVERYTHING is on the net and anyone who cares enough can find it.

 

Hippa is a huge joke IME.  I've been to several doctor's offices and in all but one (my GYN - part of why I really like her) I can hear exactly what is wrong with the person in the room next door - every last detail.  If I don't know the person, I guess it's still more or less private, but what about when I do?  Or they know me (which is more common considering I teach nearby)?  The same thing happens in an ER, before surgery when procedures are discussed, and in semi-private rooms. Curtains certainly don't stop noise any more than those thin walls do.  Between my own issues and my mom's, I've seen and heard plenty over the past 4 years.

 

There's no such thing as Hippa in reality.

 

I had something similar happen. Unfortunately, I think that doctors want to get paid, need to get paid, so if insurance wants to ask questions that they should.not.be.privy.to, some docs will violate doctor/patient confidentiality and tell.

 

As a result, my current doc and nurse practitioner have a hard time with me because I am VERY private which kind of doesn't help them out, but I am also very aware that anything I say in there can be used against me later causing major problems in the future.

 

Not a good thing. But, it is what it is.

 

Even without insurance being an issue (since it isn't with us on health share), there are still things one simply can't discuss with a doctor knowing they must write everything in stone and it can never go off one's record.

 

At least, that's how I feel.  Others might not care, of course, just like I don't care if I know my cholesterol numbers even though I've no plans on ever taking statins.

[creekland]

Off track, but my husband just attended a conference this week where someone from England discussed how artificial intelligence is being used to identify who is developing dementia by tracking individuals' grocery buying habits over a period of time. The results have been eerily accurate. I am not sure of the details yet because dh is still traveling.

 

You must, of course, share what you learn.  Curious minds really want to know how this is linked!

[Scarlett]

Off track, but my husband just attended a conference this week where someone from England discussed how artificial intelligence is being used to identify who is developing dementia by tracking individuals' grocery buying habits over a period of time. The results have been eerily accurate. I am not sure of the details yet because dh is still traveling.

 

 

That is interesting.

[creekland]

Off track, but my husband just attended a conference this week where someone from England discussed how artificial intelligence is being used to identify who is developing dementia by tracking individuals' grocery buying habits over a period of time. The results have been eerily accurate. I am not sure of the details yet because dh is still traveling.

 

My curiosity got me googling.  Does it have anything to do with repetitive buying even when one doesn't need something (similar to a hoarder)?

[kroe1]

I had something similar happen. Unfortunately, I think that doctors want to get paid, need to get paid, so if insurance wants to ask questions that they should.not.be.privy.to, some docs will violate doctor/patient confidentiality and tell.

 

As a result, my current doc and nurse practitioner have a hard time with me because I am VERY private which kind of doesn't help them out, but I am also very aware that anything I say in there can be used against me later causing major problems in the future.

 

Not a good thing. But, it is what it is.

You do not have privacy with the insurance company. It was signed away when you obtained the policy. It is also signed away again when you sign up at the physician’s office. I cannot remember the exact verbiage on the forms, but, it is there. Your insurance company can obtain the ICD-10 codes which are now more detailed than ever. Then, your insurance company can request supporting information, I.e. records, lab records, EKG’s, etc. It is all legal. The insurance company can obtain more information than your husband (unless, of course, you signed something allowing him access, too.)

[MBM]

My curiosity got me googling.  Does it have anything to do with repetitive buying even when one doesn't need something (similar to a hoarder)?

 

I can find out for sure and let you know Friday (dh is getting home very late tonight and then will have a busy work day tomorrow) but IIRC, it has more to do with going from choosing from a variety of brands, including lesser-known ones, to buying mostly familiar brands. Weird, huh?

 

The study was done in England and involved artificial intelligence if you want to try to find out more.

[creekland]

I can find out for sure and let you know Friday (dh is getting home very late tonight and then will have a busy work day tomorrow) but IIRC, it has more to do with going from choosing from a variety of brands, including lesser-known ones, to buying mostly familiar brands. Weird, huh?

 

The study was done in England and involved artificial intelligence if you want to try to find out more.

 

That is strange.  I'd have chalked something like that up to being young and not quite sure which brands one liked, so trying many - or even price making a difference, then getting older (and perhaps wealthier) and knowing what one likes, so sticking with it.

 

At least, that's how I explain it to myself now that I've settled in on some things I like and have quit buying some brands I don't like as well and no longer "have to buy" for budget reasons.

 

Maybe next time I go to the store I should buy something completely different - just for peace of mind!   :lol:

[kiana]

I can find out for sure and let you know Friday (dh is getting home very late tonight and then will have a busy work day tomorrow) but IIRC, it has more to do with going from choosing from a variety of brands, including lesser-known ones, to buying mostly familiar brands. Weird, huh?

 

The study was done in England and involved artificial intelligence if you want to try to find out more.

 

Damn, I must be getting dementia!

I can find out for sure and let you know Friday (dh is getting home very late tonight and then will have a busy work day tomorrow) but IIRC, it has more to do with going from choosing from a variety of brands, including lesser-known ones, to buying mostly familiar brands. Weird, huh?

 

 

Do you know if they are trying to detect dementia by looking at homeschool curriculum purchases?  Asking for a friend.

[Caraway]

Do you know if they are trying to detect dementia by looking at homeschool curriculum purchases? Asking for a friend.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

You and me both. Um, I mean your friend.

 

 

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[Alice]

I had something similar happen. Unfortunately, I think that doctors want to get paid, need to get paid, so if insurance wants to ask questions that they should.not.be.privy.to, some docs will violate doctor/patient confidentiality and tell.

 

As a result, my current doc and nurse practitioner have a hard time with me because I am VERY private which kind of doesn't help them out, but I am also very aware that anything I say in there can be used against me later causing major problems in the future.

 

Not a good thing. But, it is what it is.

 

 

You do not have privacy with the insurance company. It was signed away when you obtained the policy. It is also signed away again when you sign up at the physician’s office. I cannot remember the exact verbiage on the forms, but, it is there. Your insurance company can obtain the ICD-10 codes which are now more detailed than ever. Then, your insurance company can request supporting information, I.e. records, lab records, EKG’s, etc. It is all legal. The insurance company can obtain more information than your husband (unless, of course, you signed something allowing him access, too.)

 

 

Yes, this. It’s not a violation of HIPA because it’s part of your policy. Typically if we get a request for information from insurance, it includes a statement saying why we have to release the information. 

[dancer67]

I'm so sorry you've had such terrible (and terrifying!) experiences! No wonder you don't trust doctors and want as much control over your own health as possible!!! :grouphug:

 

Thank you :grouphug:

[SparklyUnicorn]

Off track, but my husband just attended a conference this week where someone from England discussed how artificial intelligence is being used to identify who is developing dementia by tracking individuals' grocery buying habits over a period of time. The results have been eerily accurate. I am not sure of the details yet because dh is still traveling.

 

That's interesting.  I've read a few things here or there where some are calling Alzheimer's "type 3 diabetes".  That it may be related to insulin issues.  My grandmother took statins for years and she does have dementia.

 

Please post details if you ever find out. 

[Butter]

I had something similar happen. Unfortunately, I think that doctors want to get paid, need to get paid, so if insurance wants to ask questions that they should.not.be.privy.to, some docs will violate doctor/patient confidentiality and tell.

 

They are not violating doctor/patient confidentiality at all.  Those forms you sign when you start going to a doctor include their privacy policy and it tells you that all information can be shared with your insurance company.  You gave them permission to do it.

[Reefgazer]

It's a problem because she specifically turned it down, that's why it's a problem. I can understand why she may have turned it down - because high cholesterol means she will be likely pressured into medication that may well lower her cholesterol, but has a very questionable benefit when you take long term survivability into account. I've read the resources on this, and no I'm not citing them simply because I don't have time to dig them up again.

You seem very upset, but I'm having trouble understanding why this is such a huge problem.

 

It would seem like a good idea to have your cholesterol levels checked, but even if you don't care about the results, why not just ignore them and move on?

 

Is your doctor concerned about your cholesterol results?

 

I'm sorry you're so upset, but unless you have an important reason why you would want to keep your cholesterol levels from being discovered, this seems like a bit of an overreaction to me. I feel like I must be missing something.

Edited October 19, 2017 by reefgazer

[MedicMom]

You do not have privacy with the insurance company. It was signed away when you obtained the policy. It is also signed away again when you sign up at the physician’s office. I cannot remember the exact verbiage on the forms, but, it is there. Your insurance company can obtain the ICD-10 codes which are now more detailed than ever. Then, your insurance company can request supporting information, I.e. records, lab records, EKG’s, etc. It is all legal. The insurance company can obtain more information than your husband (unless, of course, you signed something allowing him access, too.)

We have every patient sign a release form. It allows the ambulance to send every piece of medical information we have on you to your insurance company. EKGs, medical history, anything. Hospitals, labs and doctor's offices send blood work results. You authorize this when you sign that release form.

 

A lot of people I've encountered think we simply send the insurance company the bill and they pay it. That isn't the case. Insurance companies receive all the medical information we have on you.

[Catwoman]

It's a problem because she specifically turned it down, that's why it's a problem. I can understand why she may have turned it down - because high cholesterol means she will be likely pressured into medication that may well lower her cholesterol, but has a very questionable benefit when you take long term survivability into account. I've read the resources on this, and no I'm not citing them simply because I don't have time to dig them up again.

Once she explained further, I understood why she was upset. She has had some awful experiences with doctors.

 

As far as the cholesterol testing goes in general, though, I think it's good to know your cholesterol level. A doctor can pressure a patient to take medication, but the patient can still say no.

[Caraway]

Once she explained further, I understood why she was upset. She has had some awful experiences with doctors.

 

As far as the cholesterol testing goes in general, though, I think it's good to know your cholesterol level. A doctor can pressure a patient to take medication, but the patient can still say no.

Although she said no to the test and that wasn't enough. In this case it sounds like an innocent mistake, but that isn't always the case. I said "NO!" to a specific drug and then was given it secretly thru an IV by a nurse who decided she knew better.

 

 

 

 

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[Callie]

I had this happen once, but not for cholesterol.   A dr had asked me if there was any chance I had an STD.  Absolutely not I said.  One ordered various blood tests including two that checked for STDs.  I had the lab slip, so crossed those off and did the rest - no issues.  The next dr asked if there was any chance... no... and I didn't get the lab slip.  I saw later that they had been tested - with no problems.  It was annoying at first because it does show the trust issue isn't there, but OTOH, I came to the conclusion that they probably can't trust many of their patients (or patient's partners), and in the big picture, it's just not worth getting worked up about.

 

With cholesterol, I really can't see any problem knowing the results.  I get mine checked twice per year just for my own info.

 

However, with it all, YMMV.

I had this happen with a drug screen.  Went to the ER to have my foot stitched and they wanted to do a drug screen.  I said no I was not on any illegal or legal drugs and they said ok.  I was then billed for the drug screen.  So they went ahead and did it and then insurance refused to pay for it and the ER wanted me to pay.  I refused to pay it.

[G5052]

You do not have privacy with the insurance company. It was signed away when you obtained the policy. It is also signed away again when you sign up at the physician’s office. I cannot remember the exact verbiage on the forms, but, it is there. Your insurance company can obtain the ICD-10 codes which are now more detailed than ever. Then, your insurance company can request supporting information, I.e. records, lab records, EKG’s, etc. It is all legal. The insurance company can obtain more information than your husband (unless, of course, you signed something allowing him access, too.)

 

I could write a book. Sometimes it's actually the law or written procedures and protocols that always have to be followed, or you're done with them.

 

The reality is that anytime you're involved with traditional medicine you lose some level of control.   

[creekland]

I had this happen with a drug screen.  Went to the ER to have my foot stitched and they wanted to do a drug screen.  I said no I was not on any illegal or legal drugs and they said ok.  I was then billed for the drug screen.  So they went ahead and did it and then insurance refused to pay for it and the ER wanted me to pay.  I refused to pay it.

 

I suspect I'd refuse to pay in that situation too.  There's absolutely no reason I can think of for a drug screen in that situation.

[MedicMom]

I suspect I'd refuse to pay in that situation too. There's absolutely no reason I can think of for a drug screen in that situation.

Were they giving you pain meds at all? It is policy some places to do a drug screen before giving pain meds due to bad interactions between some drugs(legal or otherwise) and some pain meds. Our local ER does it to everyone, even my 82 year old grandmother.

[creekland]

Were they giving you pain meds at all? It is policy some places to do a drug screen before giving pain meds due to bad interactions between some drugs(legal or otherwise) and some pain meds. Our local ER does it to everyone, even my 82 year old grandmother.

 

I've no idea since I'm not the person in the situation.  It's good to know there could be reasons though.  If there were valid reasons, I probably would pay, but at that point I also think those with insurance should be able to expect insurance to pay too.

[eternalsummer]

If there are valid reasons for the drug screen, I think the nurse or doctor should have to say to you, "We cannot treat you with x medication unless we run a drug screen.  You can refuse to have the drug screen but in that case we can't do x procedure."

 

What I loathe is that you say, "I don't want this procedure/drug/test," they say, "sure," then give you the drug or perform the test. 

 

With my last pregnancy I had some post-delivery shaking - I think they said it was a hormonal thing, and I just couldn't make it stop.  Not dangerous or a big deal, but they have to take your blood pressure afterward and couldn't get a good reading because my body wouldn't stop shaking.  I'd had a few highish BP readings during labor, so they were looking at it carefully.  Finally the nurse just put demerol in my IV.  She put it in, said, "I'm putting demerol in your IV, that's okay, right?" and I replied, "well, I guess it wouldn't matter if it weren't, because you've already done it."   I was kind of out of it and really didn't care about the demerol (although it did make me puke), but I think it freaked her out because she replaced herself with a different nurse right away - and she had just come on shift 30 minutes earlier and knew me from a previous trip to the hospital with that pregnancy (during which we got along well).  

Edited October 20, 2017 by eternalsummer

[FaithManor]

Interestingly enough, I have not actually signed an insurance form in years. Dh must be doing that as he is a policy holder. I have signed HIPPA stuff and consent to treat. Nothing for the policy itself.

 

So note to self. Since they can see everything, the doc will use codes that reveal everything, then really one cannot have a relationship with a medical provider, and one can very well be burned by this release of information, so avoid treatment at all cost, and treat the doctors and nurses like strangers in a Wal-Mart parking lot. Do not say anything you do not want to be used against you later. If they ask, life is fine, everything is fine, you don't need anything, nothing has changed, nothing to see here. Move along.

 

I have to be able to get a job when ds graduates. I can't afford for employers to be nosing around my medical records, and it sounds like they can have easy access, and everything I have ever said, every test, every treatment is for public consumption so long as the nurse doesn't call my house and leave a message or talk to someone not on the list.

 

I will ask my doctors without borders friend for my next blood pressure med refill. I will pay cash to fill it so my records only show that I took it for one month and never again. The pap was normal so at least that isn't a ding against me.

 

I appreciate those in the know revealing the inside scoop so the rest of us know we can't really avail ourselves of medical treatment because there is nothing that prevents our medical history from being spilled to whomever pays the insurance company for it. As it is, likely the insurance will disclose my injuries from the car accident. While I am perfectly able to work, it probably looks on paper like I should be discriminated against.

 

To me this looks like more than losing some level of control, but more like surrendering all your rights.

Edited October 21, 2017 by FaithManor

[MedicMom]

 

Interestingly enough, I have not actually signed an insurance form in years. Dh must be doing that as he is a policy holder. I have signed HIPPA stuff and consent to treat. Nothing for the policy itself.

 

So note to self. Since they can see everything, the doc will use codes that reveal everything, then really one cannot have a relationship with a medical provider, and one can very well be burned by this release of information, so avoid treatment at all cost, and treat the doctors and nurses like strangers in a Wal-Mart parking lot. Do not say anything you do not want to be used against you later. If they ask, life is fine, everything is fine, you don't need anything, nothing has changed, nothing to see here. Move along.

 

I have to be able to get a job when ds graduates. I can't afford for employers to be nosing around my medical records, and it sounds like they can have easy access, and everything I have ever said, every test, every treatment is for public consumption so long as the nurse doesn't call my house and leave a message or talk to someone not on the list.

 

I will ask my doctors without borders friend for my next blood pressure med refill. I will pay cash to fill it so my records only show that I took it for one month and never again. The pap was normal so at least that isn't a ding against me.

 

I appreciate those in the know revealing the inside scoop so the rest of us know we can't really avail ourselves of medical treatment because there is nothing that prevents our medical history from being spilled to whomever pays the insurance company for it. As it is, likely the insurance will disclose my injuries from the car accident. While I am perfectly able to work, it probably looks on paper like I should be discriminated against.

 

To me this looks like more than losing some level of control, but more like surrendering all your rights.[/quote

 

You sign it at the hospital or the doctor’s office. It’s generally just a consent to bill, but you’re actually authorizing them to release any medical information to the insurance company that the insurance requests.

 

The ICD-10 codes are super detailed. For instance, if you are struck in the head while cooking in a single family home vs an apartment and pass out for two minutes, there are ICD codes for all of that(seriously. I borrowed this example from https://www.aapc.com/icd-10/icd-10-documentation-example.aspx). There is an ICD code for burn received from water skiis on fire. Should you be unfortunate enough to be sucked into a jet engine TWICE, there is an ICD-10 code for that—a different code than the one for the first time you got sucked into a jet engine. And if you should be unlucky enough to get bitten by a macaw while swimming at the local prison....yup. There’s a code for that.

 

Almost twenty years ago I became suicidal. I made the mistake of telling my primary care doctor at the time in hope of receiving help. It’s now forever listed on my diagnosis list, even though the issue was resolved a long, long time ago.

[katilac]

Well, crap, now I regret getting over my reluctance to talk to my doctor! 

[creekland]

Well, crap, now I regret getting over my reluctance to talk to my doctor! 

 

I've learned to be very careful what I say.  I don't think there's any problem with all the basic stuff (broken arm, accidental cut that needs stitches, flu, etc).  Even the benign brain tumor I had hasn't caused any problems since it was benign and is now considered "fixed."  (Good thing I "picked" the benign variety!   :lol: )

 

But asking them to delve into my other issues has been for nothing.  They've checked some "basics" (that I could have told them weren't it) and quit there (even though google gives further options).  Someone along the line labelled it stress.  It's on my chart (I presume) for all to read and there's no sense whatsoever trying to debate that.  "Had a brain tumor.  Has stress. Refuses to take meds for stress. End of story."

 

"Try another doctor" folks on here and IRL will say.  Why?  They all read the same notes.  I did try one I thought would be better.  She wasn't.  She wasn't bad (I liked her as a person), but she was just like the others, except more expensive.  They assume what they read is true.  Wouldn't we all?

 

I can see where the system is good for some people - keeping ongoing care going well when it's pretty basic and someone moves or retires to FL or whatever, but there are definite disadvantages.

 

At least I was smart enough when I reached the end of my rope at one point to keep that knowledge to myself - and fortunate enough that circumstances changed things.  I can only imagine what that note added to my files would do to me!

 

I keep track of my own numbers now and do what I can via diet, exercise, and The Hive (+ google) to keep my body going as best I can.  In an ideal world I'd still love to know why some things are happening that aren't common and may or may not be harmful in the future, but even if I went to another doctor the best I would get is an offer for more stress meds - perhaps with more basic testing, just in case the first few results were wrong.

[Butter]

Interestingly enough, I have not actually signed an insurance form in years. Dh must be doing that as he is a policy holder. I have signed HIPPA stuff and consent to treat. Nothing for the policy itself.

 

Those forms you signed at the doctor's office, not anything for your policy, are what give the doctor the right to share your medical information with your insurance company.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My personal opinion is that all this doctor suspicion is unwarranted. Doctors can only help you with good reporting of symptoms. Holding things back is dangerous. Of course doctors can misdiagnose things. I have had more than one doctor revise and change diagnoses as new data came in. I never expect doctors to know or retain all that is in a chart. So I give them a short synopsis going in.

 

Insurance companies can be a problem if you switch companies a lot. The problem is due to preexisting condition clauses but supposedly that is illegal now-at least for the moment. If you don’t go through insurance or if you stay with the same insurance company that has never been an issue.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alessandra]

This thread raised a question in my mind. Who owns your medical data? Are you entitled to get a copy of it to review? Is medical data stored in some kind of universal clearinghouse, or is it stored with whatever random insurance companies you have used?

 

My understanding is that Equifax et al owns my financial data, but at least I have a right to see what is on there.

 

I have read stories of lawsuits regarding car accidents. The opposing insurance company gets your data in an attempt to discredit you somehow. And I dimly recall a case in Los Angeles in which psych notes for a patient were available when a hospital needed medical records. My memory is a bit hazy, but I think a member of staff stole the info, because the patient was a minor celebrity.

 

Related link to show that I am not delusional, lol.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/12/10/458939656/celebrities-medical-records-tempt-hospital-workers-to-snoop

Edited October 21, 2017 by Alessandra

[Cecropia]

This thread raised a question in my mind. Who owns your medical data? Are you entitled to get a copy of it to review? Is medical data stored in some kind of universal clearinghouse, or is it stored with whatever random insurance companies you have used?

 

My understanding is that Equifax et al owns my financial data, but at least I have a right to see what is on there.

 

And just like Equifax, how vulnerable are our medical records to being hacked en masse?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know about "own" but I am entitled to all my medical records if I ask for them.