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Scarlett

25 yo man interested in 15 year old girl.

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Why would a bright kid be more likely to want education instead of marriage?

 

I could have finished high school at 15, easily; I had the entrance scores for the state U at age 12.  I was pushed into college (as are all half-bright kids in the suburbs, and I was quite bright so there was really no choice) and it was a waste of 4 years.  I don't see why marriage and family are worse options for a smart woman than for a stupid woman.  Is the use of the mind to educate your children and provide a stable and welcoming home environment a waste compared to say getting a degree and teaching college?  

 

Personally, I think the latter is the waste, but I don't go around telling people that.

 

I am sympathetic to this argument. It's only extremely recently that college-for-all has been pushed. My 4 years in college were not quite a waste, but I sometimes wish I had lived in a different era.

 

That said, it doesn't have to be an either/or. A 15 year old can't get married yet (well, as far as I can tell in Scarlet's area), and such a young brain is primed for learning of all types, not just a formal college experience. That's partly why I advocated, earlier in this thread, traveling, volunteering abroad, visiting relatives, etc. I don't believe that people must have a college experience, although a few classes in child development or something along those lines wouldn't go amiss. But there are plenty of other activities she could be engaged in besides menial work, activities that will stretch her brain and challenge her in different ways, some of which she'll have a difficult time doing once she starts having kids. My personal opinion is that nothing makes you grow like getting married and having kids, BUT she is not legally old enough yet, and may as well take advantage of her opportunities in the meantime. And besides helping her grow as a person, it'll help her realize that it doesn't have to be this one guy in her small church and small town. There are lots of amazing men in the world. If they're truly perfect for each other they'll hopefully have an honest talk about it and give her the space to mature and get up to legal age.

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I am sympathetic to this argument. It's only extremely recently that college-for-all has been pushed. My 4 years in college were not quite a waste, but I sometimes wish I had lived in a different era.

 

That said, it doesn't have to be an either/or. A 15 year old can't get married yet (well, as far as I can tell in Scarlet's area), and such a young brain is primed for learning of all types, not just a formal college experience. That's partly why I advocated, earlier in this thread, traveling, volunteering abroad, visiting relatives, etc. I don't believe that people must have a college experience, although a few classes in child development or something along those lines wouldn't go amiss. But there are plenty of other activities she could be engaged in besides menial work, activities that will stretch her brain and challenge her in different ways, some of which she'll have a difficult time doing once she starts having kids. My personal opinion is that nothing makes you grow like getting married and having kids, BUT she is not legally old enough yet, and may as well take advantage of her opportunities in the meantime. And besides helping her grow as a person, it'll help her realize that it doesn't have to be this one guy in her small church and small town. There are lots of amazing men in the world. If they're truly perfect for each other they'll hopefully have an honest talk about it and give her the space to mature and get up to legal age.

There is a college for all mindset going on. It usually takes the bent of 'well she needs to be able to support herself' ....and then ' being educated will help you raise children and be a good wife even if you don't need to support yourself'

 

Two things. 1) It is possible and happens all the time that people support the,selves without a college degree. 2) There are many ways to become educated that don't involve a degree.

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I’ll second Red’s stance that the girl is probably doing better than at public school.

 

It was just announced today that our school district, one of the largest in the state, has less than 25% of students able to score at proficient in their grade level in lauguage arts or math. So if she’s proficient enough to even manage PF, she’s better off than 75% of students in our schools. Unfortunately, this might make some think she’s super smart and driven. The reality is more likely that she only seems that way compared to all education mediocrity of her peers. (Which is not the fault of her peers or a reflection of their academic ability, but the fault of a failed institutional system they have no control over.)

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There is a college for all mindset going on. It usually takes the bent of 'well she needs to be able to support herself' ....and then ' being educated will help you raise children and be a good wife even if you don't need to support yourself'

 

Two things. 1) It is possible and happens all the time that people support the,selves without a college degree. 2) There are many ways to become educated that don't involve a degree.

I do not have a college for all mindset.

 

I absolutely do have an education for all mindset.

 

Because many more people struggle to provide for themselves and families without it. And because most employers don’t much care about anything that isn’t documented, that means people have to figure out how to document that education. Certification process, degree, but something. And because it takes time to attain an education that a childless living at home 18 yr old can manage a lot easier than someone older who decided they do need it after all.

Edited by Murphy101
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There is a college for all mindset going on. It usually takes the bent of 'well she needs to be able to support herself' ....and then ' being educated will help you raise children and be a good wife even if you don't need to support yourself'

 

Two things. 1) It is possible and happens all the time that people support the,selves without a college degree. 2) There are many ways to become educated that don't involve a degree.

 

I think we basically agree.

 

My argument just takes a slightly different thrust: that she is too young to marry even if she wanted to, and can use the time to broader her horizons and continue her education in some way. It does not need to be a formal education with a degree.

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There is a college for all mindset going on. It usually takes the bent of 'well she needs to be able to support herself' ....and then ' being educated will help you raise children and be a good wife even if you don't need to support yourself'

 

Two things. 1) It is possible and happens all the time that people support the,selves without a college degree. 2) There are many ways to become educated that don't involve a degree.

 

Could this girl support herself without a college degree, some kind of specialized trade, or a professional certification? Sure.

 

But how well will she be able to live? How much less money will she be making than she would have made if she'd had a better education?

 

It's all about opportunities. And she will have more and better opportunities if she has more than a high school diploma from Penn Foster to recommend her.

 

No one has said she wouldn't be able to survive without more education. What we have said is that she appears to have an opportunity to do better for herself than work at menial jobs (because she doesn't qualify for anything else right now,) so we think it would be a good idea for her to accept that opportunity.

 

Why would anyone think it was a good idea for that girl to intentionally limit herself when it doesn't have to be that way for her? And honestly, education just for the sake of education can be a really great thing, too. As the girl moves through her life, a solid education will help her be better able to comfortably interact with all kinds of people, because she will have a far greater breadth of knowledge than if she settles for nothing more than a one-year high school program.

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I do not have a college for all mindset.

 

I absolutely do have an education for all mindset.

 

Because many more people struggle to provide for themselves and families without it. And because most employers don’t much care about anything that isn’t documented, that means people have to figure out how to document that education. Certification process, degree, but something. And because it takes time to attain an education that an childless loving at home 18 yr old can manage a lot easier than someone older who decided they do need it after all.

:iagree:

 

She is in the best possible position right now. She lives at home for free and she has a father who will finance her education. She will never lose anything by becoming more educated, but she could absolutely gain a lot from it, both intellectually and financially.

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Could this girl support herself without a college degree, some kind of specialized trade, or a professional certification? Sure.

 

But how well will she be able to live? How much less money will she be making than she would have made if she'd had a better education?

 

It's all about opportunities. And she will have more and better opportunities if she has more than a high school diploma from Penn Foster to recommend her.

 

No one has said she wouldn't be able to survive without more education. What we have said is that she appears to have an opportunity to do better for herself than work at menial jobs (because she doesn't qualify for anything else right now,) so we think it would be a good idea for her to accept that opportunity.

 

Why would anyone think it was a good idea for that girl to intentionally limit herself when it doesn't have to be that way for her? And honestly, education just for the sake of education can be a really great thing, too. As the girl moves through her life, a solid education will help her be better able to comfortably interact with all kinds of people, because she will have a far greater breadth of knowledge than if she settles for nothing more than a one-year high school program.

And I don't disagree. She just now finished her PF. So I don't know what they have planned for her. But I doubt it is as dire as some seem to suggest.

 

My issue is much less about what and when more education she gets than about them encouraging a relationship with a grown man 10 years her senior.

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Some other qualification can support a person just as well as a university degree, especially if the student is motivated, interested, or talented in the former, and not so much in the latter.

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And I don't disagree. She just now finished her PF. So I don't know what they have planned for her. But I doubt it is as dire as some seem to suggest.

 

My issue is much less about what and when more education she gets than about them encouraging a relationship with a grown man 10 years her senior.

My feeling is that the education aspect is even more important when you consider the relationship with the 25yo.

 

Maybe if she goes to college, she will meet a wider variety of people and realize how immature the 25yo is, and she will decide to wait a while to rush into marriage, instead of being a 16yo bride.

 

If nothing else, if she gets some kind of additional education, even if she marries this guy, at least she will have some qualifications for employment if the marriage doesn't work out. Right now, she has nothing.

Edited by Catwoman
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My issue is much less about what and when more education she gets than about them encouraging a relationship with a grown man 10 years her senior.

I don't know all of the details in this situation, but to me the two issues are enmeshed.  When I hear, "Graduate from high school at 15..."  I hear a rush to grow up unless there is a clear reason for the early graduation.  To me it is ushering someone into adulthood, without associated decisions and issues.  Often parents of extremely gifted children end up with this dilemma; I see know reason for creating it when there is not a strong reason for it.  

 

I also think there are some other major differences.  Parents cannot control whom their children are attracted to.  Parents, in this case, can choose to graduate a 15 year old from high school.  (I am not clear about how much the parents are encourage the relationship versus tolerating or enabling the relationship.)  Also, this relationship may or may not develop.  Her education stays with her for life, whether she is in this relationship in 5, 10, or 20 years.  The relationship she may or may not have for life.

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I’ll second Red’s stance that the girl is probably doing better than at public school.

 

It was just announced today that our school district, one of the largest in the state, has less than 25% of students able to score at proficient in their grade level in lauguage arts or math. So if she’s proficient enough to even manage PF, she’s better off than 75% of students in our schools. Unfortunately, this might make some think she’s super smart and driven. The reality is more likely that she only seems that way compared to all education mediocrity of her peers. (Which is not the fault of her peers or a reflection of their academic ability, but the fault of a failed institutional system they have no control over.)

If that’s not a reason to home educate I don’t know what is. Yikes! Even the ‘bad’ districts in this part of Ohio are getting about half of students proficient at graduation.

 

Those kids deserve better :(. It’s almost impossible to break out of poverty if you aren’t literate and numerate.

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When DH was 16 he had a relationship with a 26 year old woman. To me she was a predator who set her sights on a child. DH didn't see it that way - after our daughters were born, he changed his mind. 

 

The age difference disturbs me in that, what does a 25 year old have in common, life experience wise, with a 15 year old child? Unless he really is as immature and naive as he seems to be. In which case, I'd be more likely to suggest he broaden his experiences a bit rather than spending time with a teenage girl. 

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I don't think it has to be an either/or situation. She can have both. :)

 

I think the issue is that if the marriage doesn't work out, it's good to have a degree to fall back on.

 

If this girl has nothing but a Penn Foster diploma, she's not going to be qualified for any kind of decent job. That's not good for her. That's how a lot of women end up feeling trapped in bad marriages -- they know they won't be able to make enough money to support themselves and their children.

 

And even if this girl and the guy get married and are very happy together, what if the guy ends up getting sick or injured and the girl has to work to support the family? She will have no qualifications whatsoever. That's bad for everyone involved.

 

She is only 15. She might as well be doing something constructive with her time instead of simply sitting around (or working menial jobs) and waiting to get married. It sounds like her father would support her, so going to college (or a trade school or getting some kind of certification) would seem to make a lot of sense.

 

Not just -the marriage not working.  (though one possibility.)

the below are all things I've encountered irl more times than I'd like to count.

husbands die young.

husbands get injured, or ill, and can't work.

husbands lose their job.

 

 

while many marketable skills require their hand to be kept in the field to work in it, many ONLY care that you have a degree. (they don't pay much, but they do more than retail.) 

 

OP - I seem to recall you live in a  low COL area.  most area's aren't. they may or may not stay in that area - depends where and what jobs are available.  besides, col can change.  

 

I think parents not preparing a daughter to support herself and her children without the help of her husband (because it happens, and divorce is but ONE reason!), is irresponsible.

I'm also of the opinion that a daughter with a good education has much to offer her children.  (she doens't have to work to "use" it.)

 

Well sure.  But a lot of women support themselves with no college education.  

 

And if a 15 year old has no interest in doing something that costs money I don't see any point in trying to make her.  

 

they don't make a decent living without marketable skills. 

Edited by gardenmom5
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My feeling is that the education aspect is even more important when you consider the relationship with the 25yo.

 

Maybe if she goes to college, she will meet a wider variety of people and realize how immature the 25yo is, and she will decide to wait a while to rush into marriage, instead of being a 16yo bride.

 

If nothing else, if she gets some kind of additional education, even if she marries this guy, at least she will have some qualifications for employment if the marriage doesn't work out. Right now, she has nothing.

I wouldn't send a 15 year old away to college.

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Not just -the marriage not working. (though one possibility.)

the below are all things I've encountered irl more times than I'd like to count.

husbands die young.

husbands get injured, or ill, and can't work.

husbands lose their job.

 

 

while many marketable skills require their hand to be kept in the field to work in it, many ONLY care that you have a degree. (they don't pay much, but they do more than retail.)

 

OP - I seem to recall you live in a low COL area. most area's aren't. they may or may not stay in that area - depends where and what jobs are available. besides, col can change.

 

I think parents not preparing a daughter to support herself and her children without the help of her husband (because it happens, and divorce is but ONE reason!), is irresponsible.

I'm also of the opinion that a daughter with a good education has much to offer her children. (she doens't have to work to "use" it.)

 

 

they don't make a decent living without marketable skills.

They won't leave the area. I think that is one of the reason the parents are encouraging this. They want them close.

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I wouldn't send a 15 year old away to college.

I wouldn't, either. :)

 

Why would she go away to college? Aren't there any colleges within commuting distance?

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They won't leave the area. I think that is one of the reason the parents are encouraging this. They want them close.

 

my grandparents had no desire to move away from their families.  then WWII broke out, and everything changed.  they had planned on moving back after the war was over - that didn't happen either.

they can plan on staying - that doens't mean things won't happens that requires them to move.

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I wouldn't, either. :)

 

Why would she go away to college? Aren't there any colleges within commuting distance?

 

 

today - there are many LEGITIMATE colleges offering online programs.  (not as many as a B&M).    not having a local school is not longer a hindrance.

 

My dsil got his MBA from ASU online.   it's a real school - with a real campus. (he did one of his undergrads there.) and many online options.

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today - there are many LEGITIMATE colleges offering online programs. (not as many as a B&M). not having a local school is not longer a hindrance.

 

My dsil got his MBA from ASU online. it's a real school - with a real campus. (he did one of his undergrads there.) and many online options.

I was thinking of online programs, too, but if one of the goals is to help her meet other people so she doesn't feel as though Mr. 25 Year-Old is her only option, it might be better if she was on campus so she could make friends.

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my grandparents had no desire to move away from their families. then WWII broke out, and everything changed. they had planned on moving back after the war was over - that didn't happen either.

they can plan on staying - that doens't mean things won't happens that requires them to move.

That's true. I don't know what kind of work he does, but sometimes there might be no choice but to move if his company closes down or he can't make enough money at his current job.

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I was thinking of online programs, too, but if one of the goals is to help her meet other people so she doesn't feel as though Mr. 25 Year-Old is her only option, it might be better if she was on campus so she could make friends.

I guess you might have the idea she doesn't meet a lot of people. She does. She is involved in many projects that take her to big crowds of people. And I doubt she feels the 25 year old is her only option.

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That's true. I don't know what kind of work he does, but sometimes there might be no choice but to move if his company closes down or he can't make enough money at his current job.

Barring a catastrophic event I imagine he will never leave this town.

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I guess you might have the idea she doesn't meet a lot of people. She does. She is involved in many projects that take her to big crowds of people. And I doubt she feels the 25 year old is her only option.

It's good that she meets people, but college classmates would provide a different type of relationship for her, and being in college classrooms would be a new environment for her, as well.

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I guess you might have the idea she doesn't meet a lot of people. She does. She is involved in many projects that take her to big crowds of people. And I doubt she feels the 25 year old is her only option.

 

it's interesting you asked us our opinions to see if this was as odd to us as it seemed to be to you.  this isn't your daughter, nor your son.  You have no role, except as outside observer.  

 

what is your personal belief regarding education for daughters?  what about sons? how much math?  how much science?  how much history?  I'm really very curious.

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They won't leave the area. I think that is one of the reason the parents are encouraging this. They want them close.

I completely understand that sentiment. And still think it’s atrociously selfish and short-sighted.

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Barring a catastrophic event I imagine he will never leave this town.

Will the girl be okay with that, or do you think she may want a little more adventure as she gets a bit older?

 

I know this sounds mean, but it doesn't sound like he has a whole lot to offer her. He doesn't sound particularly upwardly mobile, so it sounds like it may turn out to be kind of a dead end life for her if she ends up with him.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative about the guy, but from what you've said about her, it seems like she could do a lot better.

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it's interesting you asked us our opinions to see if this was as odd to us as it seemed to be to you. this isn't your daughter, nor your son. You have no role, except as outside observer.

 

what is your personal belief regarding education for daughters? what about sons? how much math? how much science? how much history? I'm really very curious.

I asked opinions about a 25 year old being romantically interested in a 15 year old. I asked because I wanted to know if I was over reacting. I wasn't. Almost every one on this thread agrees 15 is waaaay too young especially for a 25 year old.

 

Then as happens a lot and is fine, the thread went down a bunch of rabbit trails.

 

I don't have a spcific belief about education for daughters vs sons.

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Will the girl be okay with that, or do you think she may want a little more adventure as she gets a bit older?

 

I know this sounds mean, but it doesn't sound like he has a whole lot to offer her. He doesn't sound particularly upwardly mobile, so it sounds like it may turn out to be kind of a dead end life for her if she ends up with him.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative about the guy, but from what you've said about her, it seems like she could do a lot better.

Well she is 15 and still a child, but she is not particularly adventurous. He is probably much more so than her. He just got home from a 3 year volunteer project. He has a certification that he got before he left and he has a good job. I wouldn't classify that as some loser. I just think he is an adult and she is a child.

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I completely understand that sentiment. And still think it’s atrociously selfish and short-sighted.

I do too.

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Well she is 15 and still a child, but she is not particularly adventurous. He is probably much more so than her. He just got home from a 3 year volunteer project. He has a certification that he got before he left and he has a good job. I wouldn't classify that as some loser. I just think he is an adult and she is a child.

Well... a 25 year old man who is romantically involved with a 15 year old child is not my definition of a winner.

 

And really, it's even worse that he was away from home for 3 years and then got involved with a 15yo when he got back. Shouldn't he have matured in all that time? Should his parents still be fixing him up with dates?

 

I'm not sure how you can defend anything about him.

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They won't leave the area. I think that is one of the reason the parents are encouraging this. They want them close.

 

I never planned to leave the area in which I grew up. DH also promised we wouldn't. Guess what? We're 1500 miles away. Jobs dry up. Economies tank. Family relationships sour. Circumstances change. Encouraging such an inappropriate relationship for a child because you want to keep them close is short-sighted and selfish at best. I know you don't support it, but these parents are kidding themselves.

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Well... a 25 year old man who is romantically involved with a 15 year old child is not my definition of a winner.

 

And really, it's even worse that he was away from home for 3 years and then got involved with a 15yo when he got back. Shouldn't he have matured in all that time? Should his parents still be fixing him up with dates?

 

I'm not sure how you can defend anything about him.

 

 

I am trying to explain how bizarre the entire thing is.  That nothing I have ever known about him would lead me to believe he would be interesed in a 15 yo when he is 25.  If he was a weirdo all along it would not be so shocking to me.  

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I never planned to leave the area in which I grew up. DH also promised we wouldn't. Guess what? We're 1500 miles away. Jobs dry up. Economies tank. Family relationships sour. Circumstances change. Encouraging such an inappropriate relationship for a child because you want to keep them close is short-sighted and selfish at best. I know you don't support it, but these parents are kidding themselves.

 

 

I don't disagree they are kidding themselves.  

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We have large groups of young people who hang out together. Especially when you have older siblings with their friends, and younger siblings growing up and participating, I can see how a 10 year age gap could happen. Marriage makes the biggest difference.

 

However, when one is in their mid 20s, they would look at the 15 yos an think of them as babies.

 

This situation is weird.

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I am trying to explain how bizarre the entire thing is. That nothing I have ever known about him would lead me to believe he would be interesed in a 15 yo when he is 25. If he was a weirdo all along it would not be so shocking to me.

Just because you didn't know until recently doesn't mean he wasn't a weirdo all along. He was.

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Thanks everyone for validating that it is a weird deal.  The only thing I can figure is that both sets of parents and the 25 yo are deluding themselves into thinking she is more mature than she is because she is smart and well spoken and comes off as mature.  

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Just because you didn't know until recently doesn't mean he wasn't a weirdo all along. He was.

 

 

LOL well you could be right.

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I am trying to explain how bizarre the entire thing is.  That nothing I have ever known about him would lead me to believe he would be interesed in a 15 yo when he is 25.  If he was a weirdo all along it would not be so shocking to me.

 

That's the thing, though -- how many of us have known people who seemed totally normal or even boring... until we find out something shocking about them?

 

And don't even get me started on the parents. They are beyond bizarre. There is no excuse for what they're doing.

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Thanks everyone for validating that it is a weird deal. The only thing I can figure is that both sets of parents and the 25 yo are deluding themselves into thinking she is more mature than she is because she is smart and well spoken and comes off as mature.

I think you're looking for a rational explanation when none exists.

 

I'm sure the parents always seemed normal, too, but clearly they are not. If anything, they are even weirder than the guy! I can give the girl more of a pass on this because she's still just a kid and she is probably being influenced by both sets of parents. I feel sorry for her.

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I don't care how mature they think she is. What she is is 15. And that should be the end of this nonsense for all of them.

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I think you're looking for a rational explanation when none exists.

 

I'm sure the parents always seemed normal, too, but clearly they are not. If anything, they are even weirder than the guy! I can give the girl more of a pass on this because she's still just a kid and she is probably being influenced by both sets of parents. I feel sorry for her.

 

 

That is what my mom said.....that the girl is the only one not wacked in this situation.  Well, I don't think she used the word wacked.  LOL.  

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I don't have a spcific belief about education for daughters vs sons.

 

how much math, how much science, how much history?

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how much math, how much science, how much history?

 

 

I don't know why you are asking me that. My boys are both in public charters so they take what is outlined by the state.  If I was putting together my own program for them it would be more individualized according to their strengths and plans for the future.  Their gender doesn't factor into it.

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If you know the young man can't you say something?

 

 

What would I say?  I know his adult cousins his age have flat out told him they think it is weird and wrong....he doesn't care.

 

Edited to add---also there is the maddening point that they are all denying there is anything between them.

Edited by A Red Color

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I don't care how mature they think she is. What she is is 15. And that should be the end of this nonsense for all of them.

 

Exactly. She's not even old enough to legally drive.

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