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SamanthaCarter

S/O - generational differences in homeschoolers

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This is a long thread and I kind of skimmed through it, but I wanted to mention the changes I have seen. One is that homeschooling went from a being primarily a rejection of state-controlled schooling, to being more simply an option in a broader school choice movement. (Public charters in CA for example). Another thing, which is totally weird to me, is when younger moms talk about how they are homeschooling their two-year-olds instead of sending the tots to daycare. And why are daycares for toddlers called schools now? I feel so out of touch with culture now.

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This is what makes no sense to me. The author of the original Classical Catholic approach "how to" book had the phrase Designing Your Own as part of the title.

 

Just because some tutorial program figured out a way to make oodles of money off of the classical approach does NOT mean classical education is about doing co-ops. :thumbdown:

You misunderstand me. They are not joining co-ops under a corporate umbrella. They are designing their own courses but getting together in groups of a few familiesand dividing up the work. For example, the sciency mom teaches that subject and the bilingual mom reciprocates by teaching Spanish class. No one is making money off this.

 

I am not fretting about how to accomplish this in the sense that I need to pay someone to tellme what to do (I don’t). But It is a TON of work. The majority of my friends have stress-related health issues.

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Another thing, which is totally weird to me, is when younger moms talk about how they are homeschooling their two-year-olds instead of sending the tots to daycare. And why are daycares for toddlers called schools now? I feel so out of touch with culture now.

My brother’s wife speaks and understands a limited amount of English and my brother works shifts. So my niece went to a playschool since she was 2 for a few hours a day to learn conversational English, the alphabet, sing nursery rhymes and listen to the preschool teacher read a simple story. It includes play time and tea break.

 

My girl friend works and choose to send her children to a dual immersion daycare which teaches conversational English and Chinese from two years old and some reading and handwriting from three years old.

 

It is what people locally tend to describe as academic based daycare versus a play based daycare. A play based daycare does teach too but less of a sit down style learning.

 

My oldest did not like hands on style of learning and does much better indoors than outdoors (high chance he has mild tree and ragweed allergy). He went to an academic preschool because it fits his personality and needs. When the preschool was too slow for him, we did school at home.

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I haven't read beyond the first page, but I'll share my .02 anyway.  I can't say that I was completely old-school because I loved the support of park-days (which don't seem to exist anymore) and I liked an occasional outside class, usually more like a 4-week limited subject class, as an enrichment, and I loved our book clubs.  I did form a few small co-ops ... just a few families to get together a couple of times a month to do things like hands-on things that I might not get around to if it is just for us.  I needed the social time as much as my kids.  I liked the accountability of getting our work done so that we could contribute to our clubs.  We tried the new local co-op when it first started but we didn't like it.  To me, it seemed like it was so dumbed down and, from a social and behavior aspect, it seemed like school.  We did outsource quite a bit for high school because it served my kids better.  For one, they are so much smarter than me and surpassed what I felt I could teach well.  Not that I am an academic slouch or anything ... I have a B.S. in Math  But I felt my kids deserved more than mom trying to stay a couple of chapters ahead in every subject while battling an auto-immune disorder and trying to help elderly parents.  My kids did better with outside deadlines, with instructors who were knowledgeable and passionate in their fields and able to add something rich from their experience.  Adding a few college classes at 15 were a much better fit for them academically.  This way, I could be the counselor that I needed to be and teach a few subjects.  

 

The big change I have seen in homeschooling is demand for people to do everything for them.  When I started out over 20 years ago, everyone I know had a can-do attitude.  If we didn't see something that we wanted for our kids, we built it.  I often asked to sit in on an ongoing club to see how they did things so that I could learn and then put my own stamp on things.   But these days, with a few exceptions, I don't really see that. 

 

"I want to join your science club (with my child who is 3 years the advertised age range) and I just want to drop off my kid.  Too young?  No room?  But what am I supposed to do now?  I couldn't possibly form my own." 

 

"I'm interested in your parent-child book club.  But you need to get rid of this book because it offends my "Christian" sensibilities.  Oh, I really don't have time to read all of these books myself."   

 

I also see the demand for nearly-free curriculum that does everything for them that doesn't require that time-consuming parental involvement ... for first-graders.  Don't get me started on "rigorous" curriculum demands for preschoolers.  What happened to read alouds and play?  

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Re. definitions.  I  went to a one-room schoolhouse going up.  We had 7 kids in all six grades.  It was organized by parents but we had a paid teacher.  I never once have said that I was homeschooled.  In the 60's (when I started school) it wasn't considered homeschooling.  But now there are kids I know who are homeschooled who go to what I would have considered huge schools that are organized by parents and even have paid teachers.  I don't have a problem with it.  It's just that the definition has changed so terribly much.  And when someone says "oh, you should have so much in common" and stick me at a table with someone who homeschools in such a radically different way, well, we don't really have that in common.  I'm a good conversationalist and can find pets, sports or other things in common but our style of homeschooling isn't it. 

 

I haven't finished the thread but I just had to stop and say how much I hate it when people do that. 

Edited by CES2005
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I haven't finished the thread but I just had to stop and say how much I hate it when people do that.

Agreed.

 

I'm actually avoiding an elderly friend because she keeps introducing me as Tibbie-who-Hs'ed-all-those-boys-isn't-that-amazing. Which would be fine except that our shared area of interest is the area I'm breaking into as a post-hs'ing career where I need to network. Also, the people are taken aback at that intro. Homeschool, here, means Christian fanatic which is soooo the wrong tone for my agenda.

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Agreed.

 

I'm actually avoiding an elderly friend because she keeps introducing me as Tibbie-who-Hs'ed-all-those-boys-isn't-that-amazing. Which would be fine except that our shared area of interest is the area I'm breaking into as a post-hs'ing career where I need to network. Also, the people are taken aback at that intro. Homeschool, here, means Christian fanatic which is soooo the wrong tone for my agenda.

This.

 

Where I am working part time now, it is vitally important that this is NOT how I am introduced or the focus of discussing my skill set. This means keeping my mom and mother in law far away from the co-workers and potential,future colleagues.

Edited by FaithManor
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Just to be clear for my slow self: "outsourcing" means someone else teaching/facilitating/calling the shots? As in, tutor, DE, co-op, etc.?

 

Do things like Great Courses or published curicula count?

 

And FWIW the first thing I tell inquirers is it's nothing like school, because it doesn't have to be! Unless you really want it to be. Those who are serious, I advise them to deschool.

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Almost all oldschoolers HOMEschooled. Now the majority homeSCHOOL and consider most HOMEschoolers to be negligent. The majority of modern homeSCHOOLERS reject the Supreme Court bestowed rights of parents to rear their children in their own culture. Other homeSCHOOLERS are more likely to report a HOMEschooling family to CPS than the general public.

 

Families knew WHY they were HOMEschooling. Their curriculum choices, when they had any, were a natural extension of their HOME and a reflection of their culture, lifestyle and beliefs. When there was no curriculum, they were able to create their own from what was plentiful in their environment, as their reason to homeschool was to REINFORCE their culture, not escape from it in an attempt at upward mobility.

 

The academic success of early homeschooling was a surprise and not the goal. Many parents had resigned themselves to an inferior academic education to focus on what they thought was more important. When many of the children were successful at upward mobility and moved away from their culture, we got a lot of disappointed parents and a bunch of resources to try and prevent that.

Edited by Hunter
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Just to be clear for my slow self: "outsourcing" means someone else teaching/facilitating/calling the shots? As in, tutor, DE, co-op, etc.?

 

Do things like Great Courses or published curicula count?

 

And FWIW the first thing I tell inquirers is it's nothing like school, because it doesn't have to be! Unless you really want it to be. Those who are serious, I advise them to deschool.

For me, Outsourcing is things like DD's concurrent enrollment college classes. I have no control whatsoever. Not over books, assignments, grades...nothing. It's 180 degrees from homeschooling when I handled everything. Ultimately, I have to trust DD to direct her education and the staff at the college to do their jobs.

 

Until DD started concurrent college, I didn't have any subjects that I wasn't calling the shots. Not even those that she did a regular meeting with other homeschoolers for discussion or to do a science project or whatever, because I was the one in control of the materials, assignments, and grades. That outside meeting/group was one resource among many. And usually I was the one organizing it, because DD wanted people to discuss that book or whatever with.

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I started homeschooling in 1994 and graduated my youngest in 2015. We were going to book clubs, park days, field trips, special classes from the get go. My son was doing math with epgy online in the later 90s. We moved a lot and had different groups doing different things in all the places.

Interesting about whether we have anything to offer newcomers. Today I was talking with a friendly acquaintance about her son. He is currently in an expensive private school right in my neighborhood. The school.hss two campuses, What turns out to be a high school very close to me and what turns out to be K-8 a bit further. I had thought the school by me was 7-12. Her son is in 8th grade and I asked whether he was going to the other campus next year. She replied that she isn't sure they can managed the even higher cost of the high school. I asked what school were they considering- she then said homeschooling is one because she doesn't want him to be getting fundamentalist education which I guess is most of th he other private schools around here. She was interested in learning more about homeschooling in the area. I straight out told her coops, classes, and later DE is available.

I didn't ask who would homeschool him because I was going to somewhere but invited her to come to my house sometime.

 

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We did a lot of stuff outside the home - park days, field trips, book clubs, nature clubs, and more. It was the actual school work that was done at home and done from the point of our homeschool philosophy. My favorite book throughout our homeschool years was Rebecca Rupp's Home Learning Year by Year. It was a how to design your own curriculum book and was written with secular homeschoolers in mind. That book looked well worn by the time I got rid of it.

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We are in southern California, I would say most here go through a charter. We are fully independent, and do most things ourselves. That said, I do buy some curriculum because it makes sense to do so, science, math, etc. It actually gives me the time I want with my kids, so we choose curriculum and classes carefully.

 

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I've found that when there is lack of confidence and then a solution it's probably some entity trying to make a buck. From Women's magazines (online and off) to online schools etc.

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 I started home schooling in 2007 (not that much of the schooling part because it was kindergarten), but I loved researching all of the philosophies and methods and curricula! I enjoy teaching in general.

 

We tried a co-op 2 years later because I had a friend who went to one and was insistent that it we try it. The ladies were great, and it was fine academically. I quickly discovered, however, just how much of a control freak I was  :blush:  . We stuck it out for a couple of years, but the only classes (except PE) that dd took were the ones I taught. I finally figured out that I could leave the co-op and just do what I wanted at home with a lot less work than what I was putting on myself. I enjoyed teaching a room full of kids, but didn't enjoy that there was so much tailoring I couldn't do with dd because I was teaching a room full.

 

I am much happier doing everything my way (and my dd's way), without committee approval, or having to concern myself with the needs of a roomful of other people's children. ...Nothing against co-ops or the people who use them, it really is just me.  :lol:  

 

 

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On 10/14/2017 at 3:24 PM, StellaM said:

Yep. It is rough, if you don't have the cash.

It was never like that when I first started. Activities were free or low cost, so all could partipate if they wanted to. $$ was not a barrier in the same way it is now.

I felt the local community was more cohesive, and empowered - we were producers, not just consumers. I do feel the move to buying in education and socialisation from the youngest levels is a loss to cohesion and creativity.

I wonder what I would do if I had the $$ now. I'd probably give up and pay up. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess. 

 

While many "oldschoolers" (not even sure there's a precise definition here) dismiss the whole charter school / co-op, group learning concept, what-have-you-that's-not-kitchen-table... My experience - in my specific locale (rural, small town, limited job opportunities being created / dying industry) - is that there is a segment of highly-motivated, sacrificial parents who are doing whatever they can do to homeschool on a really limited budget. 

I guess, by many here in this thread, they'd be labeled as: "newbies" (starting now or within the last 5 years), "looking for free stuff", "doing little DIY", etc. But what I see beyond that (again, personal and up-close experience in that I worked with them / their children on a regular basis - not just anecdotal), is that there's a pretty big divide: either people "have" and can enroll their children in every cool sport and activity out there for social contact, pay for tutoring, world-school, order whatever expensive curriculum they want to hop to at the moment...

And there are those who "have not", who are strapped to make ends meet, maybe work part-time, need the support of some charter school resources (basic curriculum, teacher experience, etc.), putting available $ into the basics of supporting a family.  There are very few cheap / free options for these newbies to become established or to be "sheltered" as they try to get a foothold.  And while, yes, it would be great if they could create those communities themselves (like the oldschoolers were forced to do), it seems they're already pushed to their limits just to provide and get school done.  I'm describing a segment of new homeschoolers who are not looking for "free/cheap/easy" because they're lazy or entitled, but who are looking for free/cheap, because that's the only way they're going to be able to homeschool.  They are also a segment of people who are crunched for time (like everyone else), so it's wise that they don't waste time reinventing the wheel and, instead, put that energy into working with LD issues or providing for their families.

My hunch is that many of these "have nots" would just not have homeschooled in the past, period.  Their kids might have been under-served in the local public school system (a percentage are proactively dealing with LDs) or they might have just muddled through.  And I'm not suggesting that "oldschoolers" were all "haves"; I know many (most?) were not wealthy and sacrificed much to homeschool and create curriculum.  Despite not being able to "pay-to-play" or to curriculum hop / buy the new-fangled stuff out there, these newbies are working hard to find a good fit academically for their children.  It's not an easy spot. 

I am describing many families I can think of, off the top of my head, who are making an earnest attempt to do the best they can for their kids, though not bringing many material resources to the table.  The pay-to-play way of today makes it very hard on them to take part socially.  I fear many will not persevere.  The charter school model, at least where I live, offers a way to work with others while being open to the public - for free.  

In those folks' defense (and I'm talking about dozens of families here locally, not just a handful), I'd like to say, "Throw them a bone!"  They're using charters, co-ops, pre-made curriculum, etc., but I don't see them necessarily abusing the homeschooling foundations of yesteryear.  I'm glad they're taking the options they have and making something of them vs. letting their kids flounder in a system that's not working for them.  It may not be the Ideal, but it's better than the alternative.  What would you prefer?  

I probably didn't get enough sleep last night and shouldn't even post this.  It's kind of vent-y; I do apologize. 

I am a little sick of the entitled tone in some of these threads.  Be thankful for what you have.  Some of us have much; some of us have little.  We all have the freedom and free will to make the most of what we have.  Some (not all) of that freedom was secured by those oldschoolers of yesteryear, and, for them, I'm thankful.  But to those of you who look down your nose at people who don't follow your exact path up the mountain...ugh.  Reach down and help those newbies up--at least those who are open and searching.  Don't just lump them together and dismiss them as a whole.  Try not to become jaded by snippets of conversations and awkward responses you get from people who are starting out.  There are plenty of people in the world who are users; just as many old as new, just as many users who are wealthy as those who are poor, so those types are always going to suck time / energy out of any community or willing body. 

I hope all of you "oldies" (and at year #7, I consider myself pretty "unseasoned"; doing a lot with an oldschool approach) will continue to open your hearts and share your passion and what you've gleaned with the new generations coming into homeschooling*.  I have gotten so much from the people (especially veterans) on these boards and I'm thankful for all the wisdom that's been made available here.  The uphill trudge would have been much harder without it; my family and I have benefited.  If ya'll just close your doors because of a segment that's entitled, lazy, etc....what a loss for the world!

*However "homeschooling" is being defined...🙄😏

Edited by vonbon
Clarity
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Did I miss somebody bagging on Calvert?

I have to say I’m more shocked that among the local homeschoolers I know now, maybe ten of us seem to be actually homeschooling at home, with programs that are taught by us primarily, without a lot of supplements.  SO MANY are using things like the boxed Abeka and BJ programs that now include virtual classrooms and videos, and I try super hard not to judge when they think my school day is ridiculous because it takes us multiple hours of working and reading through material with a real live me as the primary teacher and no videos or online teaching.  Like, that’s apparently super unheard of these days 😆

Me and my Charlotte Mason friends and the random I-still-like-IEW-and-Singapore-and-Daily-Grams friends will just sit in our corner and be weirdos, I guess!

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10 minutes ago, Katy said:

Zombie thread

 

7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Yeah, but pretty ironic timing with the Calvert thread! 

I don't think that the "zombie thread" designation is that pertinent when it comes to a broader  thread like this one.  I mean, ten years down the line the generational differences described here will probably have changed, but it hasn't changed in the couple of years since this thread was originally posted.  And I think that it is a worthwhile discussion - not in order to bash others but in order to try and understand some of the trends. 

I will always come down on the side of more hands-on teaching especially through middle school because I think that is developmentally more appropriate for learning.  But I do understand why people find themselves in a bind trying to do their best under the parameters that they face.

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8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Did I miss somebody bagging on Calvert?

I have to say I’m more shocked that among the local homeschoolers I know now, maybe ten of us seem to be actually homeschooling at home, with programs that are taught by us primarily, without a lot of supplements.  SO MANY are using things like the boxed Abeka and BJ programs that now include virtual classrooms and videos, and I try super hard not to judge when they think my school day is ridiculous because it takes us multiple hours of working and reading through material with a real live me as the primary teacher and no videos or online teaching.  Like, that’s apparently super unheard of these days 😆

Me and my Charlotte Mason friends and the random I-still-like-IEW-and-Singapore-and-Daily-Grams friends will just sit in our corner and be weirdos, I guess!


I certainly wasn’t a CM homeschooler.  We are allergic to nature (unless it’s Hawai’i or includes a zipline of some kind). Still, Singapore and daily grams were EXCELLENT prep for my peeps. 🤣

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8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


I certainly wasn’t a CM homeschooler.  We are allergic to nature (unless it’s Hawai’i or includes a zipline of some kind). Still, Singapore and daily grams were EXCELLENT prep for my peeps. 🤣

I admit I struggle with the nature walks and observations, even though I know they’re good I’m a bit of an indoor lover too.  But yeah, I sometimes feel a little ‘less than’ not doing shiny new programs but we have ones that are thorough and work and are producing good results so I resist the urge to tweak to oblivion or throw more money at something that doesn’t NEED it.  

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19 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Did I miss somebody bagging on Calvert?

I have to say I’m more shocked that among the local homeschoolers I know now, maybe ten of us seem to be actually homeschooling at home, with programs that are taught by us primarily, without a lot of supplements.  SO MANY are using things like the boxed Abeka and BJ programs that now include virtual classrooms and videos, and I try super hard not to judge when they think my school day is ridiculous because it takes us multiple hours of working and reading through material with a real live me as the primary teacher and no videos or online teaching.  Like, that’s apparently super unheard of these days 😆

Me and my Charlotte Mason friends and the random I-still-like-IEW-and-Singapore-and-Daily-Grams friends will just sit in our corner and be weirdos, I guess!

I can't believe you didn't see this thread!!! It's the longest K-8 thread we've had in a while! 

 

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4 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I can't believe you didn't see this thread!!! It's the longest K-8 thread we've had in a while! 

 

Since that was a highjacked thread from the OP's original question, I think that it is better to read and respond to this spin-off thread which is on the General Ed. board: 

 

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I guess I'm a new homeschooler. My son has always been in 1-3 co ops a week. I only bought workbooks not texts or teachers additions because they were to expensive. We focused solely on math and English. He completed t4l high school in 6th grade. Then moved on to virtual school because subjects got to expensive. In 10th grade he moved to dual enrollment all while still being part of a co op. I spent all day researching,  sitting beside him helping him. I picked the best programs in my budget. He has an excellent education. 

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Dear reader, I joined 'em (as a paid provider of classes for my local homeschool community).

I am thankful for the families who value my services with cash, and allow me to pay my bills 🙂

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1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I admit I struggle with the nature walks and observations, even though I know they’re good I’m a bit of an indoor lover too.  But yeah, I sometimes feel a little ‘less than’ not doing shiny new programs but we have ones that are thorough and work and are producing good results so I resist the urge to tweak to oblivion or throw more money at something that doesn’t NEED it.  

 

My (22, 21, 16) kids swear blind that the ONLY thing we ever did in homeschool K-6 was go on nature walks every day.

There is much resentment over the nature walks! 

So at least if you stay indoors, that's one less thing they can throw at you later 🙂

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Just now, StellaM said:

 

My (22, 21, 16) kids swear blind that the ONLY thing we ever did in homeschool K-6 was go on nature walks every day.

There is much resentment over the nature walks! 

So at least if you stay indoors, that's one less thing they can throw at you later 🙂

Oh I’m sure they’ll have an equally long list of other offenses, me being the meanest and strictest and most boring mom in the world 🙄

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Wow, this thread got away from me such that I don’t even remember posting it. 

Interestingly (paradoxically?), I ended up finding the veterans with a wealth of “old school” knowledge and real time encouragement at our a la carte homeschool academy. They absolutely have something to offer if they resist looking down their noses. 

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I didn't realize this was an older thread when I opened and I saw Kinsa's name and my heart leapt! Then, I saw the date and now I'm sad again.... Boo.

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We were reviewing Daily Grams today. I think it’s good practice. 

We don’t fall under the CM category. I’m in a Wild + Free group but I am a casual member. We have joined them on walks at a nature center. There’s a woman that works there that educates us on the plants etc. It’s an hr. away in a city we normally don’t go or I’d go more often. Dd loves the outdoor kitchen and sandbox. We are lucky the yellow jackets didn’t get us during one visit as they come out in full force sometimes. 

I actually kinda resent how rigid some of the activities can get in my W+F group. No one could give me a straight answer on what ds could bring to the handcraft fair they’re hosting so we bowed out. They sent me this list but also acted like he had to be exercising a skill... I said he’d string together necklaces and bracelets with store bought materials but I don’t know if they thought that was good enough (yes, I’m aware beading is listed). This is the list I was sent in response to my question.  https://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/handicrafts/ 

We should go outside more often by our house. I feel like we went straight from summer to winter. Where’s fall? 😞 

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@heartlikealion I feel like we had a pretty short fall too, but the abnormally long end of summer was rather nice, especially looking at it from the abnormally cold winter snap we have right now 😂

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In my area, I see it all; rigorous school-at-home, all the way to educational neglect, and every possible style in between.

Homeschooling at my house has evolved over the past dozen years and will continue to for the next 9.  We involve ourselves in co-ops, use the local college, and have tried quite a few online offerings. I’m still very much in control of what we use and how we use it, and work hard to pick and choose what’s outsourced and how/what we do “in-house”.  I think the only thing we’ve never tired is replicating school at home. I chose homeschooling to stay away from that.

I figure that, if I’m always evolving, it only makes sense that the community would be, too!

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I’m 10 years in at this point. I have no idea how the homeschoolers around us school, besides those who loudly pronounce their unschooling, because I frankly don’t care. I know what works for us and that’s what we do. I don’t outsource any actual subjects, though we do attend a weekly co-op. It’s purely for the “socialization.” I used to spend a lot of time on here when I was less sure of what I was doing (and here I am again as I am freaking out about my first high schooler). 

The biggest change I’ve noticed locally in the past ten years is an explosion of secular and minority homeschoolers. And I must say that that’s been a great thing for my own homeschool because it increases the opportunities for local businesses to offer homeschool programming and for my kids to interact with a variety of different people and ideas.  

I do get a vibe that a lot of newer homeschoolers aren’t as committed to it as an overarching family philosophy and are more in it for much more varied reasons, and that some are pretty ill equipped to go it alone, whether because of their own educational background, finances, or time. So, I’m thankful that we’ve come to a moment in time when there are so many options to educate our children. 

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On 11/15/2019 at 4:31 PM, StellaM said:

 

My (22, 21, 16) kids swear blind that the ONLY thing we ever did in homeschool K-6 was go on nature walks every day.

There is much resentment over the nature walks! 

So at least if you stay indoors, that's one less thing they can throw at you later 🙂

My children informed me that they hit their lifetime quota of camping by middle school and they never want to go again.  Oddly, they didn't complain about the nature walks from home.

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