S/O - generational differences in homeschoolers

[EMS83]

Thought I responded to this yesterday!  I started our first "official" year in 2012.  I'm not sure what category I fall into.  We're relaxed eclectic with a neo-classical bent.  So maybe a hybrid?  I'm not strictly DIY, but I don't want co-ops (I do want unstructured social time or interested-based activities), and I choose programs a la cart for subjects I think would be well served by such resources.  Other subjects we DIY.  We tried co-op early on and I didn't like it.  It wiped out a day and a half of my week, didn't jive with my personal approach (so I was doing more work for other people's kids than my own), and after spending 5 hours a week for 5 semesters with those people, I never felt like I got to know anyone.  So we quit.  And dropped the larger support group entirely because outside of co-ops, there wasn't much of a reason to belong to it.  What we need is more community, but I think I'll get that better through other avenues (volunteering, lessons, classes, etc.).

Edited October 14, 2017 by CES2005

[bethben]

Around here, public schools offer a one day a week enrichment program. They have been great for the most part. The director at one of them is going to start offering math instruction starting in sixth grade because she is seeing so many who by the high school level don’t know enough math to start in pre-Algebra. It boggles my mind that she’s noticing math to be a thing that sliding with her 300 or so enrolled students.

 

I’ve found that the easier it is to homeschool(now) the more people enter into it and the more we’re going to see students who weren’t educated well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hornblower]

I agree that some of this does have to do with the legal definitions in your geographical area. 

In my area, most of the people outsourcing are outsourcing to something run by the school system. It's electronic distance ed, and increasingly has classroom components because that's what people are demanding. They get some money, they get a classroom and field trips all organized for them.  They give up their title as homeschoolers; they're legally *not* homeschooling under our laws and the teacher is supposedly in charge of planning, implementing and assessing education. 

Never mind the laws, but at some point, surely it's not homeschooling any more.

If all your subjects are outsourced, if your curriculum list is supplied and you just pick from it (or maybe don't even pick but are just assigned the curriculum), if you don't actually have a choice whether you study electricity in Grade 4, isn't that more correctly called school? 

 

 

In fact, under our system, if you jump through all the hoops you end up with a high school diploma issued by the govt because they consider you exactly equivalent to the kids attending a b&m school. 

This ends up hurting actual homeschoolers because a) as our numbers decrease, there are occasional pushes to make our  'do it all ourselves option' no longer legal and fold all of us into the system

 

b) post secondary institutions think homeschoolers come in with diplomas and transcripts from school districts because of the flood of these new home learners announcing they're homeschoolers when they're really doing district distance ed. So entering as a traditional homeschooler can have additional challenges because now the institution is *really* confused about what a homeschooler is and has done. 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

This thread reminds me of the, "I walked 5 miles in the snow to school both ways when I was your age."

 

I started researching homeschooling in 2003 when I had a 2 year old. Homeschooling has changed dramatically since then because of the internet. "Old School" homeschoolers, whatever that is, simply didn't have access to things that 2017 homeschoolers do.

 

It's almost like being proud of not using running water because it's too "new fangled". There have been some excellent developments in homeschooling, there are some very good things out there that are better than the pre-internet days. Some things are worse. It's really hard to pinpoint what is exactly is good or bad. It's not inherently "bad" to use a co-op, and it's not inherently "good" to use an old book from the 1900's.

 

There have never been many homeschoolers in my area. There are even less now because of all the charter schools, online and otherwise. I'm not sure this is a good or bad development, just different.

Since every single person has been careful to say that it isn't bad to do things either way and it is just different, I disagree that there is any kind of old school pride being displayed. Your final conclusion is the same as ours that it is just different and yet you're the only one setting up an us vs them scenario. I thought the point of this thread was to shed light on where different people might be coming from so that we can understand them better.

[happypamama]

Around here, public schools offer a one day a week enrichment program. They have been great for the most part. The director at one of them is going to start offering math instruction starting in sixth grade because she is seeing so many who by the high school level don’t know enough math to start in pre-Algebra. It boggles my mind that she’s noticing math to be a thing that sliding with her 300 or so enrolled students.

 

I’ve found that the easier it is to homeschool(now) the more people enter into it and the more we’re going to see students who weren’t educated well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm wondering at what point the *parents* who are doing the teaching will be victims of their own poor educations and won't be able to teach because they don't know the material well themselves. Are we at that point now?  I don't know.  Most of my homeschooling peers who have older kids about the same ages as mine are decently educated themselves but want better/different for their kids.  We're a little spoiled in that we have the luxury to decide to homeschool, knowing that even if our kids went to the public school, we'd be able to help with homework and supplement as needed.  I went to a pretty good high school with a special academic program and did a lot of DE before that was common, so I feel pretty comfortable with most subjects, especially in the elementary years.  I don't find math, for instance, intimidating at all, which I 100% attribute to having an AP Calc teacher for a father.  (But I graduated in 1995, and I still got a LOT of push to go into science/engineering because "you're a girl who can do math."  Are moms who are younger than I victims of the "girls can't do math" mentality, or has that changed?)  But I still feel like the school failed me, and my husband concurs, so we don't have our kids in school.  But what about the newer homeschoolers, who are keeping their kids home because their own schools didn't do a good job with them, the parents?  I applaud parents who want better academics for their children, so they opt not to use the local public schools, but if they themselves don't have great skills, that maybe leaves them kind of . . . up a creek without a paddle?  I can see why they'd choose to outsource or to use heavily scripted materials or use co-ops or whatever.  If you know the school isn't good (and/or you also have the settler mentality where you really believe your children are best off learning in a family environment), but you don't know the concepts well enough yourself, what do you do?  (I mean, certainly that's always been true to a degree, but those were more unusual people -- I'm wondering if we're going to see this in large numbers.)

[Xahm]

One of my sils is very much in this position.She wants to do right by her kids and gets a lot of social pressure from her peer group (religious) to home school, but it's really tough. The kids have been in and out of school in the last couple of years and have had periods where the ball was dropped. I think their family bonds have been strengthened even if not all the educational goals have been met. They are good folks who care, but neither parent finished high school, so it is very tough.

 

I'm wondering at what point the *parents* who are doing the teaching will be victims of their own poor educations and won't be able to teach because they don't know the material well themselves. Are we at that point now? I don't know. Most of my homeschooling peers who have older kids about the same ages as mine are decently educated themselves but want better/different for their kids. We're a little spoiled in that we have the luxury to decide to homeschool, knowing that even if our kids went to the public school, we'd be able to help with homework and supplement as needed. I went to a pretty good high school with a special academic program and did a lot of DE before that was common, so I feel pretty comfortable with most subjects, especially in the elementary years. I don't find math, for instance, intimidating at all, which I 100% attribute to having an AP Calc teacher for a father. (But I graduated in 1995, and I still got a LOT of push to go into science/engineering because "you're a girl who can do math." Are moms who are younger than I victims of the "girls can't do math" mentality, or has that changed?) But I still feel like the school failed me, and my husband concurs, so we don't have our kids in school. But what about the newer homeschoolers, who are keeping their kids home because their own schools didn't do a good job with them, the parents? I applaud parents who want better academics for their children, so they opt not to use the local public schools, but if they themselves don't have great skills, that maybe leaves them kind of . . . up a creek without a paddle? I can see why they'd choose to outsource or to use heavily scripted materials or use co-ops or whatever. If you know the school isn't good (and/or you also have the settler mentality where you really believe your children are best off learning in a family environment), but you don't know the concepts well enough yourself, what do you do? (I mean, certainly that's always been true to a degree, but those were more unusual people -- I'm wondering if we're going to see this in large numbers.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know a couple of homeschool moms who dropped out of high school.  They all did great homeschooling through middle school but didn't feel comfortable after that and put the kids in school.  Of course many put their kids into school at that age anyway but they specifically told me that they felt less comfortable with the material because they hadn't finished many of these courses or subjects themselves.  But if they had chosen to do high school at home I have no doubt that they could have learned the material alongside their kids.  These are smart ladies. 

[Wheres Toto]

Around here we seem to have three categories - 

 

1.  The schools failed their child, they pulled them out to homeschool but really didn't know all the options. A lot of them are using online classes, some are doing co-ops.  Many of them aren't aware of all the options out there because homeschooling wasn't on their radar until a situation arose.

 

2.  The fundamental religious.  Most of the organized co-ops are religious in nature (or specific arts based).  They have statements of faith that I personally could not sign (tney require a young earth belief) but I think a lot of people who are Catholic/liberal/nominal/culturally Christian do sign it because they don't read into the words to realize what it's really saying.  I might have been one of them if I wasn't hanging around here and read some of threads about SOFs.

 

3.  The unschoolers.  I don't find a lot of the newbies falling into this category.  These mostly (around here at least) seem to be people who are aware of the other options, they just feel that this is the option that works best for their family.

[KungFuPanda]

This brings up something that I think people sometimes struggle to articulate. *and is not directed at the poster I'm quoting, just in general...

 

If you're poor you can't choose any of those things. But you're poor AND determined, so you naturally want to discuss what you *can* do excellently with and for your kids. What materials are cheap and efficient and rigorous... what opportunities they can work together to create for free or super cheap.

 

But sometimes your community is so entrenched in the habit of choosing from the vast cornucopia available for pay that they not only have anything to say about what we are here referring to as oldschool, it sounds frightfully boring and strict to them. So you turn to your online communities and people keep telling you it's not WORSE it's DIFFERENT.

 

Like, yes it's just different but sometimes people want to discuss a particular thing.

 P

The OP says she doesn't see what ppl who call themselves oldschoolers see. I seriously think they are all correct about what they are seeing.

  

 

I think this is where a co-op, not a tutorial, comes into play. Still, you need a fairly educated (formally or informally) group of parent volunteers teaching those classes. My personal co-op goals are to take two high school subjects off MY plate each year; generally a lab science and a foreign language. If we can snag a lit class where ds can do classroom discussions with peers it's really nice. This doesn't cost me much more than supplies because I "pay" by teaching other classes. This shared effort with teaching, organizing, and cleaning up after ourselves saves everyone a bundle.

 

When my kids were younger, I did everything myself, but there comes a point in high school where it's cheaper to pay for a class than it is to buy lab equipment.

 

I remember posting on the board in 2007 (when it was in the old format and still flipped) that I was going to work part-time and we were getting an au pair/tutor for my daughter.  I was choosing our curriculum and doing the planning, but the au pair and I would be sharing the teaching. 

I was told that I could no longer call myself a homeschooler, but had to say that my daughter was being 'tutored'.  The purist view was that homeschoolers were people who taught all subjects themselves and at home.

That view has certainly changed!

 

Sometimes this isn't JUST a purist view but a legal one. I live in a state where what you are describing would not be legal homeschooling. We're not supposed to use a tutor any more than a public schooled child might. The parents are legally required to be the primary educator of their children. Dabbling in college classes with your high schooler is fine because the de kids do that, but when I see the trend towards outsourcing most subjects for a second grader, my eyebrows go through my head. I also get uncomfortable when people post that they work full time and they don't understand why their homeschooled kid can't stay on task at home alone. Every kid deserves a teacher. The machines aren't there yet and I'm not sure kidschooling is legal anywhere.

 

I do love that people have more choices, but choosing to homeschool when you have no plans to teach anything yourself is an idea I don't quite get yet. It seems like you could end up driving your kid to a different school for every subject or planting them in front of a computer. I don't get how that's easier or better than your local school or how you'd know what your kid needs without working with them yourself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Re. definitions.  I  went to a one-room schoolhouse going up.  We had 7 kids in all six grades.  It was organized by parents but we had a paid teacher.  I never once have said that I was homeschooled.  In the 60's (when I started school) it wasn't considered homeschooling.  But now there are kids I know who are homeschooled who go to what I would have considered huge schools that are organized by parents and even have paid teachers.  I don't have a problem with it.  It's just that the definition has changed so terribly much.  And when someone says "oh, you should have so much in common" and stick me at a table with someone who homeschools in such a radically different way, well, we don't really have that in common.  I'm a good conversationalist and can find pets, sports or other things in common but our style of homeschooling isn't it. 

[freesia]

I don't know if it's generational as much as situational.  Because there are so many online, umodel, co-op, etc options, people start or continue to homeschool with that in mind.

 

I would consider myself a settler. I decided to homeschool in the late 80s, but didn't have kids until 2000.  I hung out with some pioneers pre-kid and learned from them in my early days--and so appreciated the wisdom.  I don't find the younger homeschoolers around me so interested in learning from what went before. In some ways, they have a lot of confidence.  I think that comes from the availability of online support, homeschooling is more mainstream, it's easier to find resources, there are tons of books you can read if you can't make mother's meetings.

 

I really thought I would homeschool with me as a teacher all through high school.  There weren't any other options when I began.  We did do various co-ops b/c the kids and I loved the community, but mostly (not entirely) they are/were extras.  However, when adolescence really hit my oldest ds--wow! It was clear after ninth grade that something had to change. Either we outsourced or he would have to go to school, because he needed way more support and accountability than I was able to give with a six year old who was struggling to learn to read.  In the old days, we would have put him in school, but now we had the option to keep him home (which he preferred) and outsource many classes.  It literally saved our homeschool.  Perhaps more folks would have homeschooled longer "back in the day" if online/outsourced options were available.

 

My second dd (and actually my oldest ds) had issues in their very small social group last year.  It was imperative that we find a new social group for them.  Close knit social groups are awesome until someone turns toxic.  I was so thankful that we could go (to another state!) to a large co-op and "start over".  There was no other way to do that and staying home and missing what we had had was not going very well.  In the old days, we may have ended up putting them in school.

 

I've had mother's talk to me about taking their children out of school and they want to know what is available re: co-ops.  They are very much in the social group is good for kids mentality.  If they can find a community, they are more likely to take their kids out.  In the past, those of us who homeschooled didn't have that option so those who cared about it either made our own group or, more likely, didn't homeschool.

 

I do miss the subculture closeness that used to be in the homeschool world sometimes. It was fun to be part of something new and a bit radical--trailblazing as it were. But, as I said in another thread, homeschooling even in our home now seems less a mission and more just something about us like our hair color.  And that is okay.  But, it is different. Not bad. Different.  And I think I'm too tired right now to be radical and passionate. LOL

 

[Bluegoat]

I was just talking to a young homeschool mom this week (oldest child is 2nd grade), and she was telling me all about her co-ops (plural) that she runs. So I'm not seeing young moms who are lazy or want it handed to them. I'm not seeing moms who want somebody else to educate their kids. They do want classes and co-ops, but they are absolutely willing to do the hard work of creating and maintaining those classes and co-ops.

 

The vibe with these young moms is just different.  They don't homeschool their own kids at home around the kitchen table. They seem to want their homeschooling to be more like a cottage school where they have the community of a tiny, private school, but maintain all the control. It's not wrong, just different.

 

We homeschool the old school way, but we started in 2008. 

 

Yeah, I see some of this.

 

The family at home kitchen table thing doesn't seem to be the ideal.  And I can kind of see why - they and their kids want social learning opportunities.

 

 

OP - I started homeschooling around 2010, but I actually started to research homeschooling in the early 90's when I tried to get my parents to homeschool me.  It just is really different - no online programs, and few group activities.  But also - there was very little in the way or curricula at all - most parents put a program together themselves, except maybe for math, which they used a school textbook for.  A few used things like Abeka.

 

And here, a lot were hippy unschoolers.  That seems different now too.

[GoodGrief]

We started in 1999. We were "old schoolers", I suppose, for two years, then moved to a state with public options/funding for homeschoolers. These aren't the virtual schools available in other states, but a different sort of animal unique to this state. Fully independent is an option here too, but we opted for the program and the funding. Nothing really changed as far as my educational style when we moved, but I did have to write it all down once a year, submit "progress reports", and do testing.

 

I was a member of various statewide homeschool e mail lists, and I remember the true Old Schoolers railing against the programs. The programs were relatively new at that point, and there was a large contingent that predicted they would cause the downfall of homeschooling in general, and that the independent, no-strings option would ultimately be eliminated.

 

I do think those early concerns were valid. But what I have seen the programs do for parents in our state over the past 16 years is make people more confident to break free of the building based educational options and try something more customized to their children. We never did lose that independent option either (which is truly independent here; no registering or record keeping at all). Homeschooling in some form is extremely common here. I don't encounter Dodd-style unschoolers often, though "delight-driven" is popular among the locals. :-)

 

My youngest has been in traditional public school for the past three years now, and I can say with confidence that this is 180 degrees different from what we were doing as homeschoolers associated with a public program.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by GoodGrief

[EmilyGF]

I'm probably a new-fashioned homeschooler, in that I don't write my curriculum and I like using things put together by others. 

 

I was inspired to homeschool by those ground-breaking pioneers who did bootstrap everything. I liked their creativity, especially in the ones I met in college, and I liked the familial closeness I observed. These were things missing in my PS friends.

 

But I noticed problems, too. I saw homeschoolers bragging of how "advanced" they were when they were barely scraping through (what I consider) basic high school math - and this was a family that described themselves as the most mathy of their homeschooling community! I saw EVERY SINGLE ONE of my college homeschooled friends struggling with deadlines. EVERY SINGLE ONE. 

 

And I looked at this and wondered, "How can I have the first - closeness and creativity - without the second - insular pride and inability to meet deadlines?" For us, at this point, it means that we do things that the old schoolers didn't, including an online class (real deadlines) and interacting with kids excelling in other school settings. 

 

So I guess I'm not an "old schooler" because the old schoolers I actually interacted with exhibited problems I want to avoid. (Do all old schoolers? Certainly not. Just the ones I personally interacted with in college and family.)

 

Emily

[Wheres Toto]

I wonder if some of this was in response to so many people asking "what about socialization?".  It seems to still be the number one concern people hear about when they tell people they are homeschooling.  There must be some comfort in being able to answer with something specific:  "Well, we do an arts co-op on Tuesdays, then the kids take a group science class on Thursday afternoon, and we have gym on Friday.  Our group also runs field days, park days, and field trips."

[happypamama]

I wonder if some of this was in response to so many people asking "what about socialization?".  It seems to still be the number one concern people hear about when they tell people they are homeschooling.  There must be some comfort in being able to answer with something specific:  "Well, we do an arts co-op on Tuesdays, then the kids take a group science class on Thursday afternoon, and we have gym on Friday.  Our group also runs field days, park days, and field trips."

Also, if your kids were in public school, or even preschool, they miss their friends.  So parents want to make sure they're intentional about making new friends so their kids don't feel like they're missing something.  Or maybe the kids had a bad social experience, which is part of why they now homeschool, so they're intentional about replacing those experiences with hopefully good ones, and the easiest way to make sure you're regularly meeting with other kids.  Plus a lot of subtle stuff goes on at co-op classes.  It's not a bad thing at all, just subtle.  Like, when there's a park day or other free play time, kids naturally tend to gravitate toward the kids they already know.  They don't mean to leave out the kid who doesn't do co-op; it's just easier to run off with Jimmy that sat next to you in history class.

 

"Co-op" doesn't always mean the same thing either.  In my mind, "co-op" means parents are pooling their resources and skills, and everyone pitches in, like I mentioned above where I teach history, and someone else teaches art for my kids.  At our co-op, nobody is idle; parents who don't teach assist in all class periods.  But we have a teacher in our group who has taught drop-off classes too, where a couple of parents assist, but the rest of them don't do anything but pay and bring their kids, and some people just toss it all into the collective of "co-op."  Again, not a bad thing, just different.  We get a lot of questions now about whether new parents will need to teach/assist or if they can drop their kids off.  I think maybe parents don't want to/don't feel comfortable/whatever teach all the subjects themselves (and it IS time-consuming, especially if you have several children and can't combine things), but they still want to control what is taught, at least to a degree, and to know that it's done well.  One of the lovely benefits of homeschooling becoming mainstream is that we are SO blessed to have SO many options for our children -- we can truly pick what is right for our actual children and actual families.

 

When I first started going to park days, when my oldest was about seven, there were tons of people there.  It was as important a social time for the mothers as it was for the children.  The last couple of years, park day has been very sparsely attended.  Is it that Facebook chit chat has meant moms can socialize more easily and casually in the same way that online PDF samples mean we don't need conventions to look at things as much?  Is it that co-ops and classes and other activities are filling the social need for the kids?  I don't know.  I do think that those of us who are veterans/group leaders do need to listen to what our people are saying they need or don't need and not just assuming that they're all extensions of ourselves.

 

And now I need to go do something else other than ramble about homeschooling.

[....]

 If you know the school isn't good (and/or you also have the settler mentality where you really believe your children are best off learning in a family environment), but you don't know the concepts well enough yourself, what do you do? 

 

You have to learn alongside your kids.  That's what I've been doing all along.    

[freesia]

>>>>begin hpamama quote

 

When I first started going to park days, when my oldest was about seven, there were tons of people there.  It was as important a social time for the mothers as it was for the children.  The last couple of years, park day has been very sparsely attended.  Is it that Facebook chit chat has meant moms can socialize more easily and casually in the same way that online PDF samples mean we don't need conventions to look at things as much?  Is it that co-ops and classes and other activities are filling the social need for the kids?  I don't know.  I do think that those of us who are veterans/group leaders do need to listen to what our people are saying they need or don't need and not just assuming that they're all extensions of ourselves.

 

And now I need to go do something else other than ramble about homeschooling.<<<< end hpamama

 

What I have found is that park days were not well attended when we had a local weekly co-op.  Now that we don't, park day attendance is up again. 

 

eta: no idea why the quote got messed up. Hope my fix is not too confusing.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by freesia

[....]

I'm on a state-wide homeschooling FB group here in TX. I am an old homeschool sort - I taught my kids at home and still do. 

 

What I see now on various FB groups - people pulling their children from school for random reasons and who have done zero research on homeschooling. Their questions? What online program can I use so I can continue to go to work? They seem really offended if you suggest that leaving a child - even an older teen - at home all day alone with a computer unsupervised isn't an ideal situation. There have even been people who pull seniors - I'm assuming because the school isn't going to let them graduate - especially since they pull them in late spring of their senior year. These people are also appalled that they have to pay for homeschooling curricula. They complain about the price of anything and everything. Many think that now they won't have to continue paying school taxes (like your school tax is some sort of tuition for public school). If you try to share ideas, concerns, thoughts, etc with them - many are offended. Surely you are wrong and this doesn't fit into their idea of what homeschooling is. Their vision - Set child up with free online education program, they leave to go to work, they come home from work, child is now happy and well-educated. 

 

It is different now. Parents seem less involved and more likely to outsource all education than ever before - maybe because there are more options now? 

 

We're also in TX and this is, unfortunately, what we're seeing, too.

 

"What online program can I use that's free and does all the teaching for me?"  That's everyone's first question.  I tell people who ask that I've never met anyone IRL able to pull that off.  Every time I've witnessed the 'pull kid from ps/do online ps', it's ended in disaster.  My daughter's best friend failed an entire school year with that virtual academy.  And I've noticed the virtual public school students here call themselves homeschoolers.  One of them was trying to give me advice about high school and I had to tell her that we fall under a different set of laws than they do.  We don't do EOC exams and stuff.  We don't have graduation requirements like they do.  I don't think they realize...  

 

I also see a lot of "I can't" with the younger homeschoolers.  I can't teach them myself.  I can't teach science.  I can't teach math.  I can't teach two kids - it's too many.  I'm not trying to be mean, but they don't have confidence in their own abilities or something?  Did their own educational system really beat them down that much?  I mean, you CAN!  You're smart.  You have so many resources available.  You can teach your kids!  You can teach science!  And it can be fun!   :tongue_smilie:  (well, sometimes it's fun - Lol) 

 

And I'm ok with the co-op idea, but parents just need to make sure they are not so over-scheduled that they don't have time to work with their own kids at home.  I've seen that here, too.  We're scared into over-scheduling our kids, because of the "socialization" argument.      

[Jean in Newcastle]

In my area anyway, I feel like the new choices are for richer people than I am.  (Not rich people, just richer.)  I couldn't afford co-ops.  For a long time we couldn't afford two cars so that I had a way to get to co-ops.  Fortunately my kids are fine without co-ops.  I mentioned using the library to teach on another thread on old school materials.  People laughed, but it wasn't a joke.  That's what I used primarily for elementary.  We didn't use a single textbook except for math until fifth grade.  Some of that was philosophical but it was also financial.  So when people want free, I want to point out all the free things that they can do:  library programs, park programs, library books, recyclables, (not free but close) materials you can get at thrift stores.  But that kind of free requires work.  (Not saying that people don't work hard but I find fewer people nowadays want that specific kind of work.) 

[eternalsummer]

I wonder if some of this was in response to so many people asking "what about socialization?".  It seems to still be the number one concern people hear about when they tell people they are homeschooling.  There must be some comfort in being able to answer with something specific:  "Well, we do an arts co-op on Tuesdays, then the kids take a group science class on Thursday afternoon, and we have gym on Friday.  Our group also runs field days, park days, and field trips."

 

Our involvement with online classes and homeschool enrichment days is definitely partly a response to "what about socialization" - but not because I want to tell someone else that we're socializing in this or that way, but because without them we really don't get any socialization.

[eternalsummer]

...

 

I also see a lot of "I can't" with the younger homeschoolers.  I can't teach them myself.  I can't teach science.  I can't teach math.  I can't teach two kids - it's too many.  I'm not trying to be mean, but they don't have confidence in their own abilities or something?  Did their own educational system really beat them down that much?  I mean, you CAN!  You're smart.  You have so many resources available.  You can teach your kids!  You can teach science!  And it can be fun!   :tongue_smilie:  (well, sometimes it's fun - Lol) 

....

 

For me, it's not that I can't - of course I could teach Latin if I really wanted to.  I'm very bright and I have a teaching degree and an English degree.  

 

What I don't have is time - I have 6 kids and a small business.  I have more money than time, when paying someone else to teach my daughter Latin only costs $600/yr.  It would take me many many more than 60 hours a year to teach Latin.  Like, many many many more.  So I outsource it.

 

eta: I have been in a financial position in the past that absolutely precluded $600 for anything except vital car repairs, and even that would have had to have been borrowed from someone.  In that case there is a lot more DIY-ing - but it's also one of the reasons I appreciate the degree to which public schools here in CO allow homeschoolers to participate in the parts of school they find valuable.

 

Math is largely self-teaching through the AoPS books (they're written to the student, and I only have to intervene when there are questions) or I would outsource that too.

 

 

And I think we all do this to some degree - I mean, could you teach your kid a musical instrument, using youtube videos and having some knowledge of how to read music?  Probably, but most people who don't play the instrument their kids want to learn either pony up for music lessons or put their kids in band at school, or both.  

 

The same is true of sports  - I could teach DD how to do gymnastics and we could practice on a mat in the basement.  But the expertise of real instructors, and availability of higher quality equipment (much like science labs at cottage schools or some co-ops), and the social component of learning in a group, just make it sometimes a reasonable decision.

Edited October 14, 2017 by eternalsummer

[Murphy101]

My experience has been that negative comments from friends, family and co-workers have dropped off dramatically in the last five or so years. But negative comments from other homeschoolers when they find out that I am doing it old school even in the high school years has increased. I don't need their approval ;) but it has been a bit startling to me to have homeschoolers trying to talk me out of thinking that I can teach my own children. I have absolutely no problem with them using a co-op or outsourcing things and do not try to discourage them or talk them out of that. I wish that they would give me the same respect and courtesy.

 

THIS! And I’ve had some insinuate I should feel a need to “give back†to the home school community bc they really need veteran hsers. Ha. No. I did my time already. What they really mean is that the thought that I can get better results for 1/10 the cost and zero of hassle makes them rethink their own choices. And that’s not my problem.

 

As far as socialization goes, I've gone farther and farther away from seeking it within the homeschooling community. I don't want socialization from a school. setting even if it is only once or twice a week. (Plus - I can't see how in the world we would get our actual studies done.) Again - YMMV and I'm ok with that but we've been just fine without co-ops.

This is us too. We are super involved at church and college classes and in what few extracurriculiars they have, and then they get a pt job maybe and between all of that - we just have not needed additional social opportunities

 

Now some of the those home school groups and co-ops will swear going my route is nearly tantamount to throwing my dc into the bowels of hell, but tho there’s been a couple negative experiences, mostly it’s been great and they’ve found wonderful faith support as well.

 

And really. I can’t afford most of the co-ops. They are crazy priced imnsho. I can send my kid to the local community college for cheaper than some of the co-ops here and get a professional learning environment, instruction and get college credit for it.

[Barb_]

In my area anyway, I feel like the new choices are for richer people than I am. (Not rich people, just richer.) I couldn't afford co-ops. For a long time we couldn't afford two cars so that I had a way to get to co-ops. Fortunately my kids are fine without co-ops. I mentioned using the library to teach on another thread on old school materials. People laughed, but it wasn't a joke. That's what I used primarily for elementary. We didn't use a single textbook except for math until fifth grade. Some of that was philosophical but it was also financial. So when people want free, I want to point out all the free things that they can do: library programs, park programs, library books, recyclables, (not free but close) materials you can get at thrift stores. But that kind of free requires work. (Not saying that people don't work hard but I find fewer people nowadays want that specific kind of work.)

That was me who gave you the lol, but not because I thought you were joking--I just recognized the clever wordplay. The library is indeed the oldest school there is. I could have never accomplished as much as I have without it.

[Murphy101]

I will say I miss Park day now that I have a baby again. That’s the only thing I miss from my way more active in groups days over 10 years ago. And it wasn’t for the kids. It was for the parents! I hope wherever we move has an active one or I can get an active one going. Life-long friendships were made between families at those simple park days.

[....]

For me, it's not that I can't - of course I could teach Latin if I really wanted to.  I'm very bright and I have a teaching degree and an English degree.  

 

No one's saying you can't outsource Latin.  My 10th grader is taking a science class at an enrichment center.  I mean, that's great.  She loves it!  What I'm saying is a lot of the younger parents seem like they are feeling defeated as they START homeschooling!  Before they even get started, they already have it in their minds that they can't do it.  (From new homeschooling parents I've talked to...) 

[Murphy101]

There’s some things I think are best done in a more class-like setting. Such as foreign language.

 

I’m not really anti outsourcing. I don’t care what other parents do as long as they don’t give me attitude about not wanting to joining their bandwagon.

[Artichoke]

Now I have experienced quite a few instances where new homeschoolers ask about social, enrichment, and academic co-op options.They seem to expect to have a lot of choices. It's perfectly reasonable that they ask what's already available-anyone would, even old schoolers.   But it's when things are full or when they want something different than what's out there that I see the difference. I point out that they could come up with their own, advertise it, and run it.  I'm telling you, some are actually hostile in response.  I kid you not, I have heard them say things like, "But I don't have time to make my own group, I homeschool!"  Do they think the ones that already exist are created and run by people who don't homeschool!? Do they think "make your own" is a snarky reply?! That's when I think that kind of newbie (I know there are newbies who aren't like that. I spend time with them.) is very different than newbies that came before.

 

 

 

 

I snipped this paragraph, because to me this is the main difference between "old school" homeschoolers and those who are newer to homeschooling.    

 

If we wanted something to be available for our children, chances are we had to create it.  Sometimes that was a good thing, and sometimes the stressful work involved wasn't worth the return on our efforts.  I think we were/are sometimes a more confident bunch though because we were going against convention for what we believed was best.   We had to create because ready made options were few and far between.   Please don't equate this with me saying that new homeschoolers are not confident.   

 

As homeschooling numbers grew,  we became an untapped market  --- some local governments wanted funding for our numbers and so did private entities.   I personally see this as where the  old vs new divide began.  Homeschooling became more mainstream and even popular in some circles.   Some of it excites me, and some of it doesn't.   I"m  happy to have access to quality online programs without sending my kids to college during their preteen years, but on the flip side I hate seeing pioneers like the Moores, Warings , and others not valued as much in today's market.  I'd recommend these authors for anyone homeschooling, even if you have no interest in homeschool philosophy.  Their perspective and wisdom have helped our family immensely along the journey.  

 

As pp have said, the educational climate has changed so much over the years that more and more people are homeschooling because it's the best option that they have, not because they believe home education is the best option.   That's okay.   Hopefully, we're all in this for the best for our children.  As AZ MOM relates  we mentors/ old schoolers like to help, but we don't like being on the other end of the hostilities.   That's one reason that some of us don't want to stick around and volunteer.  Another belief that I hold is that we, like the pioneers who fought for homeschool freedom, are no longer needed in today's market.  We want to help in so many ways because we benefited so much from the relationships we formed.  I think that directly circles back to the reasons why we homeschooled, and why we want to help.  

 

 

Just my .02!

Edited October 14, 2017 by Artichoke

[Carrie12345]

Our involvement with online classes and homeschool enrichment days is definitely partly a response to "what about socialization" - but not because I want to tell someone else that we're socializing in this or that way, but because without them we really don't get any socialization.

 

My kids *thrive* on this kind of socialization.  Me, not so much, but I'm not doing this for me, or for people who ask the S question.  My kids were miserable when we did few to no organized activities.  Their misery made me miserable.  Their happiness makes me exhausted, but it's way better than miserable.

 

But surely someone will take offense to my family's experience.

[Murphy101]

My kids *thrive* on this kind of socialization. Me, not so much, but I'm not doing this for me, or for people who ask the S question. My kids were miserable when we did few to no organized activities. Their misery made me miserable. Their happiness makes me exhausted, but it's way better than miserable.

 

But surely someone will take offense to my family's experience.

Why? I don’t take offense to it. Just like there’s soccer or scout moms out there spending many hours every week helping their kid be in those activities. I’m not offended that someone else’s family has a different hobby than me or that they are more into socializing then me. Good for them.

 

That’s not the issue I have with parents who seem horrified that I have one night a week that is my activity. Or that we don’t have any playing sports. Or whatever else. If what they are doing is working for them - that’s awesome applesauce. I’m just doing what works for us.

[lavender's green]

Interesting discussion. I enjoy learning more about the different viewpoints in the HS community.

 

I think I have a lot in common with the pioneer oldschool ideological HSers. No need to go through every reason here. Just one example is that I think it's absolutely crazy for kindergartners to spend 7 hours in school with only 30 minutes of recess, which may be at the very beginning or end of the day.

 

However, I also recognize that I can hardly call myself a pioneer when I can hardly take two steps without tripping over someone who HSs, used to HS, seriously considered HS, or was HS'd themselves, back in the day. I guess I'm a settler.

 

With homeschooling so locally accepted, and with some extended family who are former homeschoolers, I've also seen some serious problems with academics, family dynamics, socialization, parents who don't or won't care, kids who think they're ten times more brilliant than they actually are because they have no way to measure themselves against others, and children who don't know how to speak to adults, because they're used to adults hanging on to their every word and then praising their brilliance.

 

If parents notice these things and try to come up with work-arounds, I can hardly blame them. I chose to use a boxed curriculum this year for some of those reasons, and I'm considering using a university model school next year to solve other problems. It's cheaper than CC, more regular than many co-ops, and the teachers are professionals who have been formally hired. Oh, and I don't have to lug the younger kids along and hang out all day or work in the nursery.

[Murphy101]

Amen.

 

This is what I meant by DIY - not neccessarily make your own curriculum, though I've done that, and it worked just fine - but make your own opportunties. Run that book club, get that group of kids together to study geography, keeping it low cost so all can benefit blah blah blah.

 

It takes work.

 

Now people just swap work for cash and buy the geo class, the book club etc. Which is great for those who can afford it. But if you can't. not only are you locked out of the opportunities, you no longer have anyone to DIY with.

 

Idk. It's different for sure.

There’s that but also... it makes it really hard to break into already formed cliques.

 

If the only way to meet others is to pay for activities that get you in the door, that’s rough. And because so many people are doing that, no one has time or interest for just hanging out at a playground or coming over for coffee. I get why that is. It’s still kinda sad though.

 

Not a week goes by that I don’t have company or meet someone or their family just to get together. But it took me years of effort to create that life and social circle.

[OrganicJen]

There are many here who are secular and deciding between homeschooling and/or private schools because of their local schools failing in state tests. For example, the better high school in my district has a passing rate of 48% for 11th grade math state test and 72% for 11th grade English. Of the number of students who took the SAT, 57% scored >= 1500 out of 2400 for the old SAT. So basically running away from academically underachieving public schools.

 

I know a few who homeschool because of children being bullied or their child is 2E.

 

That's definitely the case here, although we live in the best rated school district in our area I just felt like all it was, was free babysitting for my child.  Then on top of that there were bullying issues that they just seemed to deal with by blaming the victim.  It made sense to start homeschooling for so many reasons.  

[OrganicJen]

I wonder if some of this was in response to so many people asking "what about socialization?".  It seems to still be the number one concern people hear about when they tell people they are homeschooling.  There must be some comfort in being able to answer with something specific:  "Well, we do an arts co-op on Tuesdays, then the kids take a group science class on Thursday afternoon, and we have gym on Friday.  Our group also runs field days, park days, and field trips."

 

That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of it.  I was fortunate when I started homeschooling my son that he is such an extrovert that no one ever questioned his socialization even though we never have done co-ops or anything like that.  I actually always have people in the neighborhood asking for advice on how to get their kids outside playing and interacting with people as much as he always has.  For him I found that he gets so much more socialization time now that we homeschool simply because he finishes school early enough without hours of homework after a public school day, that he can be out playing with his neighborhood friends.  In public school they had very short recess times and weren't allowed to really talk in the cafeteria or during class, then he had homework after school, so really there wasn't much socialization opportunity while he was in public school.  

[frugalmamatx]

I'm wondering at what point the *parents* who are doing the teaching will be victims of their own poor educations and won't be able to teach because they don't know the material well themselves. Are we at that point now?  I don't know.  Most of my homeschooling peers who have older kids about the same ages as mine are decently educated themselves but want better/different for their kids.  We're a little spoiled in that we have the luxury to decide to homeschool, knowing that even if our kids went to the public school, we'd be able to help with homework and supplement as needed.  I went to a pretty good high school with a special academic program and did a lot of DE before that was common, so I feel pretty comfortable with most subjects, especially in the elementary years.  I don't find math, for instance, intimidating at all, which I 100% attribute to having an AP Calc teacher for a father.  (But I graduated in 1995, and I still got a LOT of push to go into science/engineering because "you're a girl who can do math."  Are moms who are younger than I victims of the "girls can't do math" mentality, or has that changed?)  But I still feel like the school failed me, and my husband concurs, so we don't have our kids in school.  But what about the newer homeschoolers, who are keeping their kids home because their own schools didn't do a good job with them, the parents?  I applaud parents who want better academics for their children, so they opt not to use the local public schools, but if they themselves don't have great skills, that maybe leaves them kind of . . . up a creek without a paddle?  I can see why they'd choose to outsource or to use heavily scripted materials or use co-ops or whatever.  If you know the school isn't good (and/or you also have the settler mentality where you really believe your children are best off learning in a family environment), but you don't know the concepts well enough yourself, what do you do?  (I mean, certainly that's always been true to a degree, but those were more unusual people -- I'm wondering if we're going to see this in large numbers.)

 

 

Well, old schoolers would say teach the child to teach themselves. A lot of old school programs {I'm looking at You, Saxon} were designed to be self-teaching, especially in the higher grades. That has definitely been lost. Programs now expect a LOT more parental handholding and instruction than they did then. That is good for some kids, but I think overall bad because the focus has shifted. We are no longer teaching "how to learn" and that is what made those old schoolers great - they taught children "how to learn" and then turned them loose with materials. 

 

I was homeschooled myself in the late 90's. My mother had a 9th grade education. My Father had a 3rd grade education. Yet they educated me well enough that I tested out of most of my high school subjects when I chose {against their wishes} to go to public high school. Parental knowledge didn't used to be seen as a requirement. 

[Lady Florida.]

We officially began homeshooling in the 2003-2004 school year, but we decided when ds was a baby that we'd probably homeschool. I started doing research as early as 1998. Back then it was common to decide on a homeschool style. While some people simply copied school at home, many didn't. In addition to school at home, other styles included unit studies, child-led learning, unschooling (both radical and not radical), literature based learning, Charlotte Mason style, various versions of classical/trivium (including TWTM), and probably more that I'm forgetting.

 

In person support groups were extremely helpful because you could talk to parents who homeschooled in the same style and even those with different styles, and learn from them. Co-ops were truly cooperative, not just classes with teachers. Parents took turns teaching and those that didn't teach (for whatever reason) did something else, like watch the littles in a kind of homeschool day care or perform teacher's aide type duties. Decisions were made as a group and voted on.

 

People went to curriculum fairs, large ones and small ones. to get a hands on look at curriculum and in some cases actually meet the person/people who wrote it. 

 

Although it took me a while to find them, secular homeschoolers were in my county in fairly large numbers so I don't know if the fact that there are more secular homeschoolers is what changed. I think the internet brought on most of the changes.

 

 

The internet exploded with homeschool information and help starting in the late 2000's. Online public schools like FLVS began to accept homeschoolers. Things changed and are very different now. I was one of the ones who said in the other thread that today's homeschoolers do things differently and probably wouldn't want my help as a veteran homeschooler and surely not as a mentor. The only thing that was really widely known online in my area was Ambleside (which followed Charlotte Mason and which some of us secularized).

 

As Jean pointed out upthread saying it's different isn't a criticism. Homeschooling is different than it was when we started. I'm sure those who started in the 80s and even the 90s will say it was different than when I started. When I began it was legal in all 50 U.S. states.

[lavender's green]

This has to be regional. I never saw this at all in my first decade of homeschooling (oldschooling) and honestly, I don't see it much with newbies either (thel last 5 years). 

 

Certainly nobody has ever hung on every word my kids uttered and praised their brilliance :)

 

I found I am a much harder marker than any teacher in the (few) classes we've outsourced; the chance of my kids getting big heads was about zero. I honestly never saw that in any oldschool family. 

 

My (possibly soon-to-be-former) church has an unusual number of homeschool families. I've had several instances where I'm discussing something with adults and a homeschooled kid comes up to give their opinion on matters far above their level (often spoon-fed opinions of their parents), and act a little surprised and disappointed when I don't praise or engage them. I actually think it's irritating as hell, because it's during my adult social time, and with kids barely older than my own. Sometimes other adults treat these kids like they're precocious, though. I think it's a trap that certain families in certain areas can fall into. It can certainly happen in regular school too, when a kid is slightly bright and often told so, they'll think they're hot stuff. It's just that with b&m schools there's a lot more kids per teacher, so more checks in place against it going too far.

 

I just realized I should clarify these aren't all necessarily oldschool families. I should have been clearer that I was observing lots of different situations. BUT I definitely saw problems with academics and family dynamics in my husband's oldschool HS relatives. One family produced two kids, now adults, who cannot read or do math, because the mom was so ideological about unschooling, and the (non-professional) co-op teachers never noticed they were dyslexic. The parents did not care enough that their methods were not working and were too proud to get help, crippling their own children. The other HS family gave up homeschooling after many years to preserve their relationships, which are now stellar. And I know many instances of both oldschool and newschool parents who stopped caring and let their kids go feral.

 

I agree that a lot of this discussion must be regional. I don't meet a lot of parents who want to do nearly-free online programs while they work outside the home, for instance.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My kids *thrive* on this kind of socialization. Me, not so much, but I'm not doing this for me, or for people who ask the S question. My kids were miserable when we did few to no organized activities. Their misery made me miserable. Their happiness makes me exhausted, but it's way better than miserable.

 

But surely someone will take offense to my family's experience.

?? Nobody is taking offense at any other family's experience. People can share their differences without putting down others.

 

When people ask me "what about socialization " I assume the question is "what have you done for socialization ". I might add a sentence or two about what others do but of course my main reference is my own experience.

 

As I said up thread somewhere we don't look for our friends primarily in the homeschool community. We have friends. Dd especially spends at least three hours a day with friends and much more on weekends. Today she will be with friends for 11 1/2 hours.

 

I understand that of course every one will find friends in different places. And that some love their co-ops. That's great. But just like I was out of the public school socialization box, I am out of the homeschool co-op socialization box. And back in the day (since that's the topic of this thread) it was more common to be out of that box.

[HS Mom in NC]

We officially began homeshooling in the 2003-2004 school year, but we decided when ds was a baby that we'd probably homeschool. I started doing research as early as 1998. Back then it was common to decide on a homeschool style. While some people simply copied school at home, many didn't. In addition to school at home, other styles included unit studies, child-led learning, unschooling (both radical and not radical), literature based learning, Charlotte Mason style, various versions of classical/trivium (including TWTM), and probably more that I'm forgetting.

 

In person support groups were extremely helpful because you could talk to parents who homeschooled in the same style and even those with different styles, and learn from them. Co-ops were truly cooperative, not just classes with teachers. Parents took turns teaching and those that didn't teach (for whatever reason) did something else, like watch the littles in a kind of homeschool day care or perform teacher's aide type duties. Decisions were made as a group and voted on.

 

People went to curriculum fairs, large ones and small ones. to get a hands on look at curriculum and in some cases actually meet the person/people who wrote it. 

 

Although it took me a while to find them, secular homeschoolers were in my county in fairly large numbers so I don't know if the fact that there are more secular homeschoolers is what changed. I think the internet brought on most of the changes.

 

 

The internet exploded with homeschool information and help starting in the late 2000's. Online public schools like FLVS began to accept homeschoolers. Things changed and are very different now. I was one of the ones who said in the other thread that today's homeschoolers do things differently and probably wouldn't want my help as a veteran homeschooler and surely not as a mentor. The only thing that was really widely known online in my area was Ambleside (which followed Charlotte Mason and which some of us secularized).

 

As Jean pointed out upthread saying it's different isn't a criticism. Homeschooling is different than it was when we started. I'm sure those who started in the 80s and even the 90s will say it was different than when I started. When I began it was legal in all 50 U.S. states.

 

That's what I've seen too.  No more can you expect to have a conversation with a newbie about educational philosophy; it's hit or miss, but usually a miss. Often newbies, and to be honest, a few old schoolers,  respond as though discussing educational philosophy is pedantic, burdensome, or irrelevant.  Then when they ask for book/curriculum/blog recommendations, they don't understand why you would want to know their educational philosophy. (!??!?!??) It's like refusing to discuss your personal preferences for spice palates and flavorings, then asking which restaurant someone recommends.  Uh, honey, if I don't have a sense of what you do and don't like and what your general goals are, then how can I recommend anything that might be a good match? Or they are so unfamiliar with general differences in philosophies, that they don't understand the basic terminology, so you have to talk to them like they're not homeschoolers. There really are newbies who do their homework and come in asking more detailed questions of veterans, but I would say they're a small minority in my experience.

 

The other awkward thing is that some are not aware of what a philosophical homeschooler is (someone who sees children as designed to learn best within the family structure) because they haven't looked into all the philosophies and approaches within the homeschooling community, and like people who enter another culture with little preparation, they unintentionally do and say things that aren't received well. They may be very excited about an option where they don't have to do the teaching themselves, but not everyone else is looking for that kind of thing. Depending on how they present that information, it could come off negatively.  I've seen it done (not always) in a way that suggests homeschoolers not taking advantage of such opportunities are choosing the lesser path for their kids or that choosing not to take it is unreasonable and will leave the kids behind in some way.

 

The one thing I notice the most is trash talking ps teachers. It used to be taboo around here to talk negatively about ps teachers.  Now we have people who get upset about a bad experience in ps, pull their kids out, and then come into the hs community, and gripe about a bad teacher experience. Some even go on about ps in general and how their kid didn't get individual attention, the curriculum wasn't exactly what their individual child needed, and how it's secular. They somehow assume that every homeschooler would be willing to commiserate with them.  They have no idea a philosophical homeschooler is likely to think something like, Well, institutional schools are a mass production environment out of necessity and practicality.  If you want a customized education, then do it yourself. Uh, how does everyone not already know that?

 

And some of them have no idea that many a homeschool mom and/or dad are former or current ps teachers.  Now, there is a subset of a branch of politics that vilifies ps in general, and branches of subsets of Christianity that do too, but it's not cool to talk bad about about fellow homeschoolers and their spouses who were/are lovely people, even Christian,  doing a great job in ps.  They don't need anyone's crap.  Some of us have good friends, family members, church members who are ps teachers and we know they're very conscientious people working hard in a challenging situation.  We don't take kindly to them being insulted and slandered and I suspect they don't either.

 

[LMD]

Okay, I think that some of the conflict comes because old schoolers had to wrestle and work hard to own their own decision and make it work. They had to be self confident. That is a mind set and culture that is very different to the mindset that sees the home school world as just another offering to choose from and consume - which devalues the real work and personal sacrifice that old schoolers gave to build this world. It seems disrespectful and old schoolers worry that the world they built will crumble because newbies don't realise that the personal owning of the decision and the hard work is what builds personal confidence and the robust community.

 

I'm probably rambling...

[Meriwether]

We don't have many coop options in my small city. There is a CC group. I teach another kid Spanish in addition to my daughter, but most group things are bonus activities like art and choir.

 

I started homeschooling in 2007. I consider myself to be a real homeschooler, although I wouldn't pass the oldschooler test in this thread. My oldest takes Latin through Lukeion and my third does band at the local school. We also did a coop at our previous location. It was art, pe, science, and music for elementary kids two hours twice per month. And I design some of my own studies, but I also buy ready made curricula. I'll outsource math eventually, too, maybe next year. My oldest is doing Algebra II this year and that's about as high as I go. My second may be taking Greek through Lukeion, too.

 

Whatever label fits that will have to do, because I'm happy to have the options I have.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think the label matters per se. It just is a way of describing a mindset. But as Homeschool Mom said, you can also subdivide us old schoolers by homeschool philosophy. I know mine. I researched it. ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SamanthaCarter]

Interesting range of experiences here. I am the OP, and the thing that prompted me to post is my sadness at seeing so many veterans feeling like they have little to offer and will bow out of the homeschooling community as soon as they are done if not before. They can do what they want of course and if that doesn't include homeschool community, that's fine. But if they think there's nothing to give even if they wanted to, what a loss to us all! My mom started in 1985 and graduated her last this year. She is not going to do anything homeschool related, as much as she'll miss it. She cites some really strong personalities in her local (rural) homeschool group that don't want her help, and some hurtful situations at church where new homeschool mamas asked other new homeschool mamas how to get started while completely forgetting about my mom - who was right there.

 

I don't see myself as fundamentally different than the pioneer generation. Yes, my options are different, wider, more varied. I face challenges they did not (aforementioned "buying into" homeschool community with co-op participation) and do not face challenges they did (homeschooling as not socially acceptable, fear of truancy calls, etc). But it's still the same primary education, still the same range of educational philosophies, still generally the same laws for their state (with a few changes along the way). I love to get hand me downs, ideas on how to handle a learning/attitude problem with a kiddo, reminiscences of fun projects they did in some topic, advice on composing my NOI (i.e., not too much detail!).

 

Maybe I am guilty of being one of those moms who wants to take advantage of veteran expertise for cheap/free. Should I be sorry?

 

 

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Edited October 15, 2017 by SamanthaCarter

[HS Mom in NC]

I think we really have to be careful presenting old schoolers as people who only ever exclusively taught every subject at home. Old schoolers are a wider range than that. I had coffee this week with a 30 something homeschool mom who was herself the first homeschooler to ever attend a ps sports team.  Her parents filed and won that lawsuit.   Sure, back in 1982 when an old schooler was the only homeschooler in the county that may have been the case.  But I'm not the only one who sat at conventions listening to veterans of the first generation homeschoolers who knew several families and they got together because one mom had a whole lot more math that the other moms so she taught the high schoolers and another mom taught the chemistry labs because of her background in science.  There were book discussion groups and small music groups. Most of that was high school level academics then.  The rest was social or enrichment from what I heard.

There was, for a long time, a problem with some old schoolers equating homeschooling and Christianity, not recognizing different approaches as legitimate homeschooling, and generally refusing to acknowledge that any movement will have different variations in it.  The idea that everyone should homeschool has mostly died out among most old schoolers I've met, which is a good thing.  There still is a subset that buys into the "Saints not scholars" and "Any-day-homeschooling-is-better-than-any-day-in-ps." I think that crowd in particular opened old schooler's eyes the fastest.  I remember thinking, "Anyone who doesn't want to be bothered with schooling academics with their kid would send them to an institutional school, not homeschool them."  Nope.  I was dead wrong about that. So there have been improvements largely brought on by people homeschooling differently and utilizing different resources.

Also be aware that those homeschool legalization and deregulation battles were hard won. People who remember them are going to be very cautious about labels and legal definitions because that's where many a legal battle originated. So being upset by people careful about labels isn't productive in a conversation about legal classifications-those classification have legal consequences.   I know some personality types struggle when labels are used and comparisons and contrasts are made, so they may need to bow out of this discussion and leave it to people who aren't upset by looking at differences and their implications.  Those who do discuss it need to be conscientious about defining terms and avoiding blanket statements.

[Guest]

I feel like I offend more than help and tend to try (not always successfully) to stick to "safe" topics and fluffy fun socialization--but wish I was better a knowing my own limitations.

 

I do not homeschool any more. I educate my caboose baby the same way I did his siblings, but the word means something different now.

 

I believe the polite thing to say is, "No, we don't know anything at all about homeschooling. We are lifelong independenters." but the word just sounds so dumb.

 

I prefer "homeschool supporter".

 

I may wish the story had ended differently, but it is your story now and I am just visiting.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Guest

[HS Mom in NC]

 the thing that prompted me to post is my sadness at seeing so many veterans feeling like they have little to offer and will bow out of the homeschooling community as soon as they are done if not before.

Some are tired of homeschooling.  Some just want to move on to the next chapter of their lives.  Some, being empty nesters, finally have the time to do those things we couldn't really do when the kids needed so much for us.  Some are taking care of elderly relatives.  Some are enjoying being grandparents.  Some are going back to work because of economic challenges.  Some are going into new careers.  Some are headed back to college or getting certification in a new skill.

 

It's really important to live life in chapters because the only thing constant in life is change. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Other than helping out my kids with the grandkids ( if there are grandkids and if they want help with anything), I doubt I will help out the homeschool community. Not one homeschool newbie has asked for my help. And I have a strict "no unsolicited advice " rule. Unless you count answering questions on this board as helping. I will probably still do that.

 

 

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[HS Mom in NC]

People don't need to ask veterans in person anymore; it's optional.   There are books, blogs, seminars, webinars, conventions, websites like this, and then some. It's just not as hard to get the voice of experience anymore and if you get 5 or 10 minutes into reading it or listening to it, and you figure out it's not a fit for you thenyou can turn it off or put it down, which you can't do with an in person conversation.  That's a huge advantage now. It's really efficient and searchable compared to back in the day.

[lots of little ducklings]

Unless you count answering questions on this board as helping. I will probably still do that.

 

 

 

Phew!  :hurray:

 

 

I'm a newbie (I guess? Since 2007...) and I'm so VERY grateful for the veterans here.  I happen to know and benefit from the experiences of lots of IRL veterans, too, but my community may be unusual; thankfully the online community here opens up that wealth of experience to anyone anywhere.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Phew! :hurray:

 

 

I'm a newbie (I guess? Since 2007...) and I'm so VERY grateful for the veterans here. I happen to know and benefit from the experiences of lots of IRL veterans, too, but my community may be unusual; thankfully the online community here opens up that wealth of experience to anyone anywhere.

You can always text me. ;)