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S/O - generational differences in homeschoolers


SamanthaCarter
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So a bunch of "oldschoolers" on another thread have brought up that homeschoolers are so different now that they have nothing to offer the current iteration of homeschoolers. The feeling is that homeschoolers now want curriculum already picked out and handed to them, preferably free, and/or content subjects outsourced. Is this really what we are seeing at large? I'm not seeing it. Using myself as an example, I started my first year of homeschool with a k-r and a 3rd grader. I did my research, picked out all my curriculum attended low cost art classes at the museum, and attended a few field trips that year with a meetup group. Second year, I tried a science class that turned out to be too expensive, too far away and too unfriendly to younger siblings needing a place to wait. We did not continue for the winter semester. We did fewer field trips and art classes. Third year I trailed an a la carte Homeschool Academy with one writing class for my oldest. That worked out really well and so this year we are doing three classes each for my three kiddos. Mainly writing and science.

 

It seems to me that as I meet families, we are not that unusual. Mostly self determined curriculum, mostly done at home with a few outside enrichment or academic or online classes thrown where needed. There is the whole CC following, but I don't really mix much with them because they have their own world. Do I live in a part of the world that doesn't match up to what the oldschoolers are seeing? I'm confused.

 

 

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I can tell you I do not see that as the majority. In some small circles, that’s that circle’s norm, but it doesn’t represent the majority.

 

I will be asked how I managed to do something. Okay. No big. I’ll try to explain it and it’s seriously not some amazing crazy feat. But they will say every time something to the effect of, “OMG. You really did that? You sit right there with them? And go over it step by step like that?â€

 

Yes.

 

Oh. They don’t have time for that.

 

*confused*. This is my job. If I don’t have time to educate them, then I either need to redo my priorities or reconsider home schooling.

 

And the majority of questions? They aren’t even academic. It’s how do I get the laundry done. Or how do I meal plan. Or how do I schedule outside activities. As though any of that matters. It just doesn’t. It doesn’t matter academically. It doesn’t matter wrt character formation. It doesn’t matter I’m how close I am to my kids. All that stuff is just... stuff. Noise that distracts from the work that need done at hand. WORK on relationships. WORK on slogging through algebra or essays for the umpteenth time.

 

But they don’t want to hear about any of that.

 

So I mostly keep my mouth politely shut unless asked directly and privately.

 

If it matters, those who have asked me directly and privately have said they were glad they did so. And I was glad to help them in whatever small way I could bc I’m a big believer in sharing communal knowledge. I can’t imagine how different and worse off my own life would be without the kind people who shared their knowledge with me over the years.

Edited by Murphy101
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Old school homeschoolers don't tend to attend homeschool academies. We school at home. No criticism. But this is the difference we are talking about.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This.  When we started in 1992 we didn't have CC, online classes, or any of the other organized outsourced classes like the one day a week classes that are so popular now.  Heck, we didn't even have homeschool classes at the science museum or daytime homeschool classes at the Y or gymnastic academy like we have now.  I know some areas probably had all that but not where I lived. 

 

No criticism for families who are doing it differently than we did. We just didn't have that available. So we bought books and did it on our own. Support groups were a HUGE help to me - learning about curriculum, learning styles, organizing group field trips, park days...it kept me from feeling isolated. 

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Many here are with a charter that has funds allocated per child. For example Ocean Grove Charter School which is one of the independent study program has 2,287 students enrolled for 2016/17 according to the dept. of education dataquest. South Sutter Charter School has 2,250 and Sky Mountain Charter School has 1,910.

 

“Instructional Funding

 

How does school funding work?

 

The IF is set up in an IF account that is managed by the ES. When families are placing orders for curriculum or supplies with an approved school product vendor, or signing up for classes with an approved school service vendor, the ES will issue a purchase order from the families IF account to the approved vendor.

 

The 2016/17 school year family account is funded $2,200.00 (TK-8 students; per student); $1,100.00 each funding period and $2,700 (high school students; per student); $1,350.00 each funding period.

The state of CA funds our schools based on the average daily student attendance.â€

http://www.ogcs.org/index.php/og-parentinformation/og-parent-faq

 

Even for those that are not using a Charter School, there are plenty of classes targeted at homeschoolers now including private centers hosting AP exams and PSAT. My kids took their AP exams at a private tuition center that is also an authorized provider for some AP courses. Their customers are homeschoolers and afterschoolers.

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Some of the new parents seem passive, very uninformed about homeschooling or pedagogy or curriculum. Some appear to have not read a single homeschooling philosophy or methods book. I get it when people get pushed into homeschooling by health issues or bullying etc & the parents are suddenly scrambling in this new world..... But I also see people who claim they've always wanted to homeschool but have made absolutely no effort to learn anything about it. 

Sometimes I think it's become a trendy thing here among a certain privileged suburban parent set to say you're homeschooling but many don't actually seem to want to actually do it; & yeah, they outsource a lot, sign up for part time school programs, do electronic distance ed.  They don't seem to trust themselves to teach their kids, and they also are often not really into the whole "being with the kids" lifestyle which I associate with homeschooling. 

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I am a second generation homeschooler. To give you an idea how much of an oldschooler my mom is, she started homeschooling in 1986 and just wrapped up her last year of homeschooling this year.

 

She can't fathom the younger homeschoolers. I tell her about the things I've found for my oldest to participate in, and she tells me about hiding kids from the UPS man because homeschooling was illegal. There were no academies, co-ops, online classes--there was barely any curriculum.

 

The homeschool moms I meet are different from what I grew up with. I'm doing it differently as well. It isn't better of worse, but it is different.

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I started homeschooling about 5 years ago and I didn't realize that what you described as the old school way was old school lol. That's all we've ever done, never co ops or outside classes etc. But I wonder if for us one reason may be that we are secular and in our area most home educators are religious so I've never really heard of any groups or co ops in our area that I would want to attend so we've just been on our own. I really didn't realize there were those options maybe we are just anti social lol. We do walk to the library a lot.

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I was just talking to a young homeschool mom this week (oldest child is 2nd grade), and she was telling me all about her co-ops (plural) that she runs. So I'm not seeing young moms who are lazy or want it handed to them. I'm not seeing moms who want somebody else to educate their kids. They do want classes and co-ops, but they are absolutely willing to do the hard work of creating and maintaining those classes and co-ops.

 

The vibe with these young moms is just different.  They don't homeschool their own kids at home around the kitchen table. They seem to want their homeschooling to be more like a cottage school where they have the community of a tiny, private school, but maintain all the control. It's not wrong, just different.

 

We homeschool the old school way, but we started in 2008. 

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I was just talking to a young homeschool mom this week (oldest child is 2nd grade), and she was telling me all about her co-ops (plural) that she runs. So I'm not seeing young moms who are lazy or want it handed to them. I'm not seeing moms who want somebody else to educate their kids. They do want classes and co-ops, but they are absolutely willing to do the hard work of creating and maintaining those classes and co-ops.

 

The vibe with these young moms is just different. They don't homeschool their own kids at home around the kitchen table. They seem to want their homeschooling to be more like a cottage school where they have the community of a tiny, private school, but maintain all the control. It's not wrong, just different.

 

We homeschool the old school way, but we started in 2008.

Wow that's really interesting I wonder if that goes on around here and I just don't know about it.

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I'm on a statewide homeschooling page and at least once a week we have a new homeschooler asking for advice with the conditions it has to be free (or really cheap) and it shouldn't require too much time or effort from the parents who have other more important things to do. It's almost like they want all the benefits of public school (free materials! free daycare! free teachers!) and none of the work of homeschooling. It's seems to be much more a running away from things they don't like about public school than believing in the benefits of homeschooling. Unschooling is often nonschooling because "they learn every minute of the day" according to other members of the page.

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I’m going to say straight out, the majority of the co-ops I’m aware of are a joke. On paper, they look very rigorously academic but the reality is no where near that at all. I would not presume being involved in a charter or a co-op means anything.

Edited by Murphy101
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I was just talking to a young homeschool mom this week (oldest child is 2nd grade), and she was telling me all about her co-ops (plural) that she runs. So I'm not seeing young moms who are lazy or want it handed to them. I'm not seeing moms who want somebody else to educate their kids. They do want classes and co-ops, but they are absolutely willing to do the hard work of creating and maintaining those classes and co-ops.

 

The vibe with these young moms is just different. They don't homeschool their own kids at home around the kitchen table. They seem to want their homeschooling to be more like a cottage school where they have the community of a tiny, private school, but maintain all the control. It's not wrong, just different.

 

We homeschool the old school way, but we started in 2008.

To this old schooler, I have a hard time labeling it as homeschooling. To me, the label is cottage school or university model school. Again- not labeling it lazy or wrong but it wasn't considered homeschooling back when I started and now it is.

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Wow that's really interesting I wonder if that goes on around here and I just don't know about it.

There are many here who are secular and deciding between homeschooling and/or private schools because of their local schools failing in state tests. For example, the better high school in my district has a passing rate of 48% for 11th grade math state test and 72% for 11th grade English. Of the number of students who took the SAT, 57% scored >= 1500 out of 2400 for the old SAT. So basically running away from academically underachieving public schools.

 

I know a few who homeschool because of children being bullied or their child is 2E.

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I started homeschooling in 2003. My fourth child is now in 4th grade. I love homeschooling the early years "the old way" and I sit with my youngest and teach her and read with her and she takes no outside classes or co-op. It is wonderful and she is learning so much. I have no interest in any outside classes for her.

 

I have gone to the other side outsourcing high school. We use a combination of co-op, online, and dual enrolllment. I like having them home and feel they are doing well academically and I am thrilled to avoid the school experience. I do, however, feel the need to tell people that I do not actually teach my big kids.

 

I wish I could have old schooled it all the way through but I just couldn't do it. Back before there were so many options I guess we would have been a family that homeschooled until high school and then put them in school.

 

I appreciate the options available to help people who need the support. But it sure doesn't feel like homeschooling. I've used my own made up term "independently private schooling". I do so love and respect the "oldschoolers" though!

Edited by teachermom2834
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I have a few ideas about the whys of this, as someone who doesn't do co-ops, exactly (but sure would if I could find one), but does use outside providers and publicly-funded enrichment activities and etc.

 

1.  At least in my part of Colorado, there are not many park days or purely socialization homeschool meetup things.  The ones that exist either require a statement of faith (or would find us very strange participants as we are not religious) or are super and explicitly liberal, which is also sort of problematic for us.  The homeschool/cottage school/activity day funded by the local public schools (they're all around the state) is neither explicitly religious nor explicitly socio-politically leftist; they're just a group of homeschooled kids who live in the same town.  Because they're free and run by the schools (at least this is my theory), they've largely replaced park days.  So if your kids want socialization, and you don't go to church, these are the main game in town.  

 

2.  More homeschoolers these days are secular, and/or are homeschooling because they don't want their kid in school 5 days a week 7 hours a day, not because they are opposed to the idea of school or classrooms at all.  They want their kids to have some classroom experience; they may plan to put them back in after elementary.

 

3. The Internet.  Options just get better and better.  I could not teach Latin the way Lukeion teaches Latin.  I have 6 kids and run a small business from home.  There is just no way.  Lukeion does a great job and the price is fine.

 

4.  College admissions and costs/scholarships are getting more competitive, or at least that is the perception.  Thus, maybe more parents of older homeschooled kids are saying, well, let's outsource these 4 AP classes (or take them at the local HS, or something) because I just don't know that my mommy-graded lit class will look as good on a transcript.

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I'm noticing a difference.  My youngest just graduated high school.  I homeschooled for 17 years.  So, I've seen lots of trends and changes over the years. 

 

I'm noticing the younger/newer homeschoolers are more interested in online learning.  Co-ops are more popular.  When I started out, the only co-ops near me were for the "extras" (art, music, crafts, pre-K fun things) or for things that required more participants (drama, choir, PE).  Now, I'm seeing co-ops for everything.  Various groups offer foreign language, science, math, etc.  Some require parental involvement, but many are a "drop and go" type.  I know homeschoolers who do not do the teaching themselves, but use the co-op, online (TT type or BJU distance learning type), or self taught options and only supervise or check work.

 

This year, I'm seeing more folks opt for Classical Conversations. 

 

I'm also seeing a lot of new curriculum coming out.  This is great to have options!  But, I'm not seeing a lot of our favorites being used as much. 

 

Also, I think some differences are probably regional.  Local economy, etc. plays a part in what is available. 

 

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To this old schooler, I have a hard time labeling it as homeschooling. To me, the label is cottage school or university model school. Again- not labeling it lazy or wrong but it wasn't considered homeschooling back when I started and now it is.

 

I agree, but in our state they are legally considered homeschoolers. I would call it more of a cottage school.

 

The weird side-effect I'm seeing is that non-homeschoolers have begun to see this as the norm. People with kids in public school will ask me what co-op my kids go to. Nope. I'm too busy teaching Latin and geometry to join (much less run) a bunch of co-ops.

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The whole "better late than early" crowd seems to have disappeared. I didn't wait until 10 to start formal academics like the Bluedorns advocated (ETA: even knowing the Bluedorns' philosophy probably marks me as a veteran HSer), but my pre-k and primary grades were laid-back compared to what newbies are doing. Moms of kids well under the compulsory age of 6 wanting much more than just a bit of phonics whenever the child is ready for it and some "hands-on" math & science activities.

 

I don't think it's developmentally appropriate and it's so unnecessary. My oldest did very little formal academics in pre-k & primary but she was ready for dual enrollment at the community college by 9th grade.

Edited by Crimson Wife
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I started in 2012. I do it the old-school way*, but secular, and on a different schedule since I work FT. No one else I know does it like I do. And you're right - people just seem amazed I do so much work to educate my kid. It's a commitment. Last year I was burnt out. I'm back on track now, but it takes work.

 

*ETA: old-school in that I teach everything myself, not that I DIY or use old-school curriculum like Abeka.

Edited by ikslo
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I don't know, but the critique from oldschoolers doesn't really matter to me. That it's done differently now doesn't, imo, mean make it more or less than it ever was. For example, my mother homeschooled us in the late 80's / early 90's and I really wish she'd had access to more variety regarding curriculum, and a community or access to outsourcing.

 

Most of the homeschoolers I know personally choose their own curriculum and largely teach their own children. Many of them attend a co-op or playgroup for homeschoolers once or so weekly, but those are largely social events that may have a theme. Since I'm not involved in a directly academic co-op, I don't really know anyone who uses them on a large scale.

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I think it may be regional.  I lived in VA and homeschooled most of our time there.  I knew there were homeschool co-ops, and I knew one or two families that participated, but it was not the norm.  We moved to NoVA for 15 months and I saw more co-ops there.  After we left everyone I knew homeschooling either put kids in school or went to co-op for everything.  

Now we live WA.  Going into our 4th year here and I'm just now realizing no one schools at home.  They are co-opers.  They admit.  They do 2-3 a week for academics.  No mom is teaching anything at home.  It's disconcerting.  We joined the co-op this year b/c we never met any homeschoolers!??!  My kids take PE and theater LOL.  But it's big here to be in the virtual PS racket and think you are homeschooling, and everyone else who says they are homeschooling is really putting their kids into co-ops.  Like never taught a subject at home and kids only ever do co-op families.  

It's not homeschooling.  I find it hard to sell curriculum here b/c no one buys it.  I ended up online to sell and what's still at the homeschool store has been there since I dropped it off.  

 

I would love to meet some real at home teaching their kids people.  Sure I outsource some things online like German and algebra 2.  But I taught math up until this year.  I'm doing science at home.  I know many who pay $50 a month to do Apologia at the co-op.  Um, really?  You could buy the curriculum with a lab kit for much less.  It blows my mind.  And it's a soapbox I struggle to get off right now.  

 

In VA I knew people schooling at home with curriculum or putting things together themselves.  We did things with others like lit discussion or art videos in a group.  We met at the park weekly in all weather to just be outside and hang out with friends(kids and moms).  I miss that.  

 

So for my experience...it's regional.  perhaps the younger homeschool moms are all going to co-op but it's b/c so many sources tell them they need it.  They are stuck in the socializing fear.  Or they can't teach fear.  It's sad.  

So I don't think of the co-op generation as real homeschoolers.  Not when you find out they haven't even taught their kids to count to 10 or their colors.  They put them in co-op starting in pre-school.  They buy only what the co-op teacher tells them to buy.  I don't get it.  I guess I am old school. 

Edited by tess in the burbs
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I guess I'm a "contemporary oldschooler"? The only thing I outsource is piano lessons. My son is in 3rd grade, but I've been researching the different approaches and curriculum for years. We live in a very rural area, so it would be difficult to oursource too much without having to drive for an hour or more. There is a CC group that is over an hour away that we could attend, but I'm not interested. I enjoy researching curriculum and find that the "oldschoolers" have a lot to offer with their advice. 

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Yep, I've seen what you described. Homeschoolers now do seem different. I do think for some, it has to do with the umbrella schools. Parents don't go and choose the best curriculum for their child, they choose what is best from what is being offered, and it doesn't cost them anything.  ( I know, because I did the umbrella school for a period of time.)  It changed the whole way we taught at home.  We barely had time for games and fun anymore.  Homeschoolers wanting cheap or free materials (so did I, but I still shelled out plenty of money as well.)  I have given much away, but it would be nice to recover some for what was spent!  

 

I too, love to share my gained knowledge of curriculum I used, methods...but where I visited a few times at sales, etc., the mom's were not interested in hearing anything.  They just wanted to get what they came for and get out.  Sales and yearly homeschool workshops were 'the' place to be in my time. It was great time to catch up with people we hadn't seen in a long time and to share what worked or didn't...there was always such a buzz in the air!  

 

If you are reading this and this kind of thing is new to you, I hope you will consider what you can gain from others in the homeschooling field, just by talking and sharing with each other.    I am not bashing anyone, just know that things have changed in some ways. Some for the better, some not...

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I think co-opers (people who only use co-ops and never teach anything themselves) are a school choice category yet to be recognized. They're here because there's no where else to go. They need a la carte private classes because they don't have a private school option that works for them; online school doesn't meet their in person preferences, and ps and public charter schools aren't a good fit for them.

After 17 years of homeschooling I would say there's an over all shift from a producer mindset to a consumer mindset because we have such an influx of Refugees from institutional settings.  They're not Pioneers, philosophical homeschoolers who believe children are designed/evolved to learn best in a family setting.  They're not Settlers who are here because they like the lifestyle.  They're here because their first choice didn't work out.  This is at least plan B if not plan C or D for them.  If something else comes along that does work out for them, they'll take that route instead of homeschooling.  They hope they're just passing through. (There are newbie Pioneers and Settlers who do have producer mindsets, but I wouldn't say they're the majority of newbies I encounter.)

Back in the day, we knew our choices were fairly limited, so we had an expectation that we would fill gaps ourselves.  The homeschool veterans we listened to and read were the ones who had little to no curriculum to choose from, so they talked about how they came up with their own.  They talked about finding ways to turn experiences into learning opportunities.  That was normalized and frequently discussed.  There was always talk going on about how to create more positive socialization opportunities in your child's life across a wide range of ages.  We read books that we had to ask bookstores to order in for us because there was no internet or homeschooling sections. We read up on different types of education because we had to have some idea of what we were putting together. That was all part of homeschooling. That's how homeschoolers made conversation.

Now I have experienced quite a few instances where new homeschoolers ask about social, enrichment, and academic co-op options.They seem to expect to have a lot of choices. It's perfectly reasonable that they ask what's already available-anyone would, even old schoolers.   But it's when things are full or when they want something different than what's out there that I see the difference. I point out that they could come up with their own, advertise it, and run it.  I'm telling you, some are actually hostile in response.  I kid you not, I have heard them say things like, "But I don't have time to make my own group, I homeschool!"  Do they think the ones that already exist are created and run by people who don't homeschool!? Do they think "make your own" is a snarky reply?! That's when I think that kind of newbie (I know there are newbies who aren't like that. I spend time with them.) is very different than newbies that came before.

The other tip off is how much some newbies need approval from friends, family and co-workers for homeschooling. Back in the day, before the school choice movement really got going, people understood that homeschooling was not a mainstream choice. It came with general disapproval from most people.  We had to reconcile ourselves to that from the beginning.  Now that American culture (on the whole) seems to accept this idea that people are different and need different kinds of schooling to choose from, it's far less likely most homeschoolers get open hostility about it like we used to.  So that filter has been removed.  Now people come in expecting general approval and occasionally getting hostility, whereas old schoolers knew general hostility was the norm and  approval was occasional.  I'm genuinely surprised how upset some newbies are that someone close to them openly disapproves.  When they ask about how to deal with it they seem bothered that the response boils down to, "Yeah.  Some people aren't going to like it.  Don't let it bother you. Stop needing approval." It looks to me like that type of newbie thinks that response is dismissive or callus.  But that else can we say?

 

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It seems to vary among the homeschoolers I know. Some outsource heavily, and some put together their own thing, and some pick and choose from various programs. I myself have done a variety of things. When my oldest (now tenth grade) was younger, I put together a lot of my own plans. Now that I am schooling four kids plus handling a 4yo, I use premade curricula for a lot of stuff for my older ones because it saves me a ton of time and energy. But I feel myself coming back around to putting my own things together and approaching homeschooling in a different way as my close-together youngers move into elementary. We are outsourcing Spanish for the teen this year, and my little guys get art and gym at a co-op. Third grader also gets history at co-op because I teach it, and I teach it the way I want it taught. (Basically, I tell the parents the topic ahead of time and ask them to read or have their kids read something on the topic, whatever they want, as much or as little as they want, and then in class we do the mapwork and the reinforcement projects and activities that I want to do at home but easily push aside when time is tight. Because I’ve committed to teaching it, it gets done, and my third grader gets to do it. In return, someone else has them play organized games that need a big group, and someone has them do messy art that again, I will push aside for lack of time. Other parents have their kids doing enrichment classes like LEGO more than academic, and that’s awesome for them!)

 

My mom homeschooled my siblings in the 90s. Back then, pretty much everyone in their Christian-oriented support group used Bob Jones or A Beka. Some really free spirited folks used Konos. ;) Mom put together a fair amount of her own stuff and taught some writing and history classes for her kids and others. Sometimes she’s envious of all the options I have at my disposal, both the luxury to debate the finer points of three math programs before choosing one and the many enrichment programs (nature clubs, science classes at a local college, library programs, daytime martial arts classes, etc.), and sometimes she and I both realize that sometimes simpler was a good thing. She is 150% supportive (and she and my dad jumped in and did a lot of the homeschooling of my kids last winter). She knew a lot about what programs the people in her group used (admittedly they were an umbrella group and required a curriculum declaration yearly), whereas although I, like she was, am an officer in my group, I know little about what most of the families use unless they’re especially good friends of mine. When we are at activities, there is actually not a ton of chat about who uses Singapore vs. Saxon or whether SOTW is enough or whatever. We did recently start a FB Page, which does lend itself to more chit chat about materials, which I think is great for our newbies in particular.

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I've homeschooled since my older was in K, but that's still only 7 years. Because I teach high schoolers, though, I get to talk to a lot of moms who have been doing this a much longer time. One thing that some of the moms were talking about is that people seem to be homeschooling for different reasons. When they started, people were more philosophical homeschoolers or wanted something more developmentally appropriate. They say that more of the newbies are homeschooling for the purpose of academic rigor - not that the older folks weren't rigorous, but rigor or acceleration wasn't their primary purpose. The sweet ladies on our co-op board see part of their job as balancing the different goals by offering different options. Of course, by having a co-op, that's 'new homeschooling' to some. But, this group has been around for 20 years, so it's not new. For the littles, it's all enrichment, and for the olders, there's a mix of academic and enrichment, with folks taking what they want. We meet once/week, so most work is done at home, and from what I can tell most students are home-taught in almost everything until middle or high school, and still home-taught for at least some subjects in high school.

 

But, I think another issue, which is people expecting everything to already be organized and available, is a symptom of something broader than just homeschool changes. We recently saw a discussion in a small group at church, where people were complaining that there weren't enough social events for people in a particular age bracket. I kept thinking that everybody in the group was over 30 and connected online...surely a social gathering could be arranged without it needing to be a ministry of the church! I visited a museum that had a display about the 'secret cities' of WWII, and they talked about how everything was self-organized because nobody could go in or out. Folks arranged book clubs, Bible studies, sports activity groups, dances for the teens...but they had the mentality that if they wanted something then they needed to organize it. I sometimes wonder if the problem is that people my age grew up in an era of organized extracurriculars, so they never needed to put their own pickup games together.

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In my area so many of the homeschoolers use the co-ops that it's impossible to do social things outside of them. Because they are all busy with co-op! I felt like I had to put my social bug into one strictly as a way to make friends. I can handle the academics, I even prefer to, I just can't handle a lonley kid.

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In California, I think much of the change has come from the amount of charter school $$$. $3000/year per kid really can buy a lot of cool experiences. I don't see much in the way of DIY or heated convos about pedagogy in my neck of the woods.

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I think co-opers (people who only use co-ops and never teach anything themselves) are a school choice category yet to be recognized. They're here because there's no where else to go. They need a la carte private classes because they don't have a private school option that works for them; online school doesn't meet their in person preferences, and ps and public charter schools aren't a good fit for them.

 

After 17 years of homeschooling I would say there's an over all shift from a producer mindset to a consumer mindset because we have such an influx of Refugees from institutional settings.  They're not Pioneers, philosophical homeschoolers who believe children are designed/evolved to learn best in a family setting.  They're not Settlers who are here because they like the lifestyle.  They're here because their first choice didn't work out.  This is at least plan B if not plan C or D for them.  If something else comes along that does work out for them, they'll take that route instead of homeschooling.  They hope they're just passing through. (There are newbie Pioneers and Settlers who do have producer mindsets, but I wouldn't say they're the majority of newbies I encounter.)

 

Back in the day, we knew our choices were fairly limited, so we had an expectation that we would fill gaps ourselves.  The homeschool veterans we listened to and read were the ones who had little to no curriculum to choose from, so they talked about how they came up with their own.  They talked about finding ways to turn experiences into learning opportunities.  That was normalized and frequently discussed.  There was always talk going on about how to create more positive socialization opportunities in your child's life across a wide range of ages.  We read books that we had to ask bookstores to order in for us because there was no internet or homeschooling sections. We read up on different types of education because we had to have some idea of what we were putting together. That was all part of homeschooling. That's how homeschoolers made conversation.

 

Now I have experienced quite a few instances where new homeschoolers ask about social, enrichment, and academic co-op options.They seem to expect to have a lot of choices. It's perfectly reasonable that they ask what's already available-anyone would, even old schoolers.   But it's when things are full or when they want something different than what's out there that I see the difference. I point out that they could come up with their own, advertise it, and run it.  I'm telling you, some are actually hostile in response.  I kid you not, I have heard them say things like, "But I don't have time to make my own group, I homeschool!"  Do they think the ones that already exist are created and run by people who don't homeschool!? Do they think "make your own" is a snarky reply?! That's when I think that kind of newbie (I know there are newbies who aren't like that. I spend time with them.) is very different than newbies that came before.

 

The other tip off is how much some newbies need approval from friends, family and co-workers for homeschooling. Back in the day, before the school choice movement really got going, people understood that homeschooling was not a mainstream choice. It came with general disapproval from most people.  We had to reconcile ourselves to that from the beginning.  Now that American culture (on the whole) seems to accept this idea that people are different and need different kinds of schooling to choose from, it's far less likely most homeschoolers get open hostility about it like we used to.  So that filter has been removed.  Now people come in expecting general approval and occasionally getting hostility, whereas old schoolers knew general hostility was the norm and  approval was occasional.  I'm genuinely surprised how upset some newbies are that someone close to them openly disapproves.  When they ask about how to deal with it they seem bothered that the response boils down to, "Yeah.  Some people aren't going to like it.  Don't let it bother you. Stop needing approval." It looks to me like that type of newbie thinks that response is dismissive or callus.  But that else can we say?

 

 

 

My experience has been that negative comments from friends, family and co-workers have dropped off dramatically in the last five or so years.  But negative comments from other homeschoolers when they find out that I am doing it old school even in the high school years has increased.  I don't need their approval ;) but it has been a bit startling to me to have homeschoolers trying to talk me out of thinking that I can teach my own children.  I have absolutely no problem with them using a co-op or outsourcing things and do not try to discourage them or talk them out of that.  I wish that they would give me the same respect and courtesy.

 

As far as socialization goes, I've gone farther and farther away from seeking it within the homeschooling community.  I don't want socialization from a school. setting even if it is only once or twice a week.  (Plus - I can't see how in the world we would get our actual studies done.)   Again - YMMV and I'm ok with that but we've been just fine without co-ops.  I've offered co-ops etc. to my teens (only one now but both of them when ds was still in high school) and they don't see what is so special about homeschoolers that they need to specifically seek them out for their social interaction.  (Boy - that sounds snarky.  I don't mean it that way.  I just mean that they look for friends in general who have personalities and interests in common and educational method is not important in that equation.)  They have found friends in the community and in various places like the Y or other community groups. 

 

 

 

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Since 2012ish, newbies here seem less inclined to DIY anything. 

 

With the proliferation of materials on TpT and other teacher-share sites, in addition to other materials offered all over the internet, it could be that some newbies are good stewards of their time and don't seek to recreate the wheel. 

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I buy books (many and various types, not all from 1 company, and do it at home.  I do have some great courses stuff that we watch, but only as enrichment.  If I go to a homeschool activity is it skating or park day or something like that.  I am not into co-ops.  Dd is 7.  I figure we will continue this way.

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So a bunch of "oldschoolers" on another thread have brought up that homeschoolers are so different now that they have nothing to offer the current iteration of homeschoolers. The feeling is that homeschoolers now want curriculum already picked out and handed to them, preferably free, and/or content subjects outsourced. Is this really what we are seeing at large? I'm not seeing it. Using myself as an example, I started my first year of homeschool with a k-r and a 3rd grader. I did my research, picked out all my curriculum attended low cost art classes at the museum, and attended a few field trips that year with a meetup group. Second year, I tried a science class that turned out to be too expensive, too far away and too unfriendly to younger siblings needing a place to wait. We did not continue for the winter semester. We did fewer field trips and art classes. Third year I trailed an a la carte Homeschool Academy with one writing class for my oldest. That worked out really well and so this year we are doing three classes each for my three kiddos. Mainly writing and science.

 

It seems to me that as I meet families, we are not that unusual. Mostly self determined curriculum, mostly done at home with a few outside enrichment or academic or online classes thrown where needed. There is the whole CC following, but I don't really mix much with them because they have their own world. Do I live in a part of the world that doesn't match up to what the oldschoolers are seeing? I'm confused.

 

 

Of course I see *some* of this, particularly in brand new homeschoolers, but it's not a majority from what I can tell.

 

I am "this generation", but more than a decade in with another decade to go, so I may be straddling generations.  My kids currently do 2 co-ops, and I'm the co-director of one of them.  They don't take many "core" classes in either.  Lots of arts, electives, and skill-based classes.  We do a lot of field trips, imo. Some of our friends do a lot more.

 

There is a big population of cyber charters here, and that tends to fall under "picked out/free/outsourced".  Some of the parents view it that way. Others see it as the thing that enables them to homeschool in their particular situation.

 

We run in pretty eclectic circles. I don't get a sense of any specific majority in our area.

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In the other three years that I've homeschooled DS and the two years DD was at home, we've never done a coop or online class or Box curriculum. DD will be home for a semester next fall during which she will do math and FL online but that's because she's taking them for HS credit and I don't want any issues transferring those credits. I'm perfectly comfy teaching both courses.

Edited by Sneezyone
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This thread reminds me of the, "I walked 5 miles in the snow to school both ways when I was your age."

 

I started researching homeschooling in 2003 when I had a 2 year old.   Homeschooling has changed dramatically since then because of the internet.  "Old School" homeschoolers, whatever that is, simply didn't have access to things that 2017 homeschoolers do.

 

It's almost like being proud of not using running water because it's too "new fangled".   There have been some excellent developments in homeschooling, there are some very good things out there that are better than the pre-internet days.   Some things are worse.   It's really hard to pinpoint what is exactly is good or bad. It's not inherently "bad" to use a co-op, and it's not inherently "good" to use an old book from the 1900's.

 

There have never been many homeschoolers in my area.  There are even less now because of all the charter schools, online and otherwise.   I'm not sure this is a good or bad development, just different.

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I think so much of this is cultural/regional.  We haven't really started yet. I don't plan to start for another year or two.  I'm just now getting a feel for the homeschool community around me, and I'm finding it pretty diverse; lots of Classical Conversations families, lots of families that use a homeschool support option offered by the state, some people who go it completely on their own.  I'm sure I'll find my niche, and it might even vary by child.  If my Perfect Fantasy life works out, I can't imagine that I won't be pulling most of my kids' education together myself around the proverbial kitchen table.  But, you know, those darn Real Life Kids might get in the way.

 

But for all the talk about "oldschoolers", I was homeschooled for middle school in the early 90s.  Two other families and ours dropped out of our small private school; the other two families had homeschooled previously.  Our moms *gasp* HIRED a teacher who came three mornings a week, and we all hung out in my basement and learned cool stuff.  Then the moms swapped an afternoon a week and taught cool stuff.  My mom even hired a math tutor.  We called ourselves homeschoolers; I still consider myself homeschooled.

 

Four of my aunts homeschooled through the mid-nineties into the 2000's; one just wrapped up her last kid last year.  One family unschooled with somewhat disastrous results (not a slam on unschooling; this family was more not-schooling); they hired a tutor for two years and then sent their kids to private school.  One family hired a part time tutor who worked with all the kids at various ages and stages and subjects all the way through.  Some of those kids homeschooled K-12, some ended up at b&m high school.  One aunt created a co-op with six other families from her Bible study, and they pretty much all participated K-8.  All of their kids went to b&m high school.  The fourth aunt homeschooled all 8 of hers at home; they hired tutors for foreign language and upper level math/science or used DE when applicable.

 

We can argue until we are blue in the face about what exactly makes a homeschooler and exactly how many hours one can outsource and still call oneself a homeschooler.  But I think the definition has been broad for a very long time, and families who have found themselves either needing or wanting to make this divergent educational choice we label "homeschooling" have done a wide variety of things to work towards their personal goal.

 

I can't imagine being not intimately involved in every choice of my kids' education, but I'm choosing homeschooling mostly for academic reasons and because I'm a control freak.  There are so many other reasons people choose or need to homeschool; if that means leaning strongly on a community, employing all the awesome online options available now that simply didn't exist 20 years ago, or hiring tutors because that's what works for you, *shrug*  There's no gold star for "old schooling" or re-inventing the wheel, just like there's no gold star for breastfeeding, potty training before 2, or training all of your kids to do the laundry before they're 8.  Beyond the moral obligation I think all parents have to make sure their children are adequately educated and prepared for adult life (an entirely different topic), it's not really my concern how they get there or what they call themselves on that road.

Edited by medawyn
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This thread reminds me of the, "I walked 5 miles in the snow to school both ways when I was your age."

 

 

Truth.

 

I get pretty much exactly what I want out of homeschooling.  What that is and how I go about it is my business.

 

Of course, that doesn't prevent me from having opinions about other things, or others from having opinions about me.  I try to keep my mouth shut, and most people (well, other homeschoolers) tend to keep theirs shut unless it's in a supportive manner.  There ARE the odd balls who think they know better than me, and I just do my best to keep the laughter in my head and pass the bean dip.

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My experience is somewhat the opposite. I was homeschooled for around 4 years and my mum used school of the air then a prepackaged curriculum then co-op. For me other than the year we bought sonlight it's been more piecing together and DIY and occasional activities.

 

I would say though that it's logical to have shifted the other way really. Older homeschoolers were much more unique or unusual so really had to be very driven types of people to go against the flow and do it. Also it was newer so there were so many less ready made options or classes out there. Of course with more online classes available some people will choose to use them. Also the Internet and better tech makes online classes so much easier and connecting with other homeschoolers so much easier.

 

To be honest with the number of available resources the biggest challenge now is not finding stuff but limiting stuff. There is so much that's good available but if we're homeschooling for free time and creativity we can't use it all. It also makes decision making very difficult. It can be easy to get into an endless loop of curriculum research.

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"There's always going to be that family reading six hours a day and memorizing things who keep to a schedule (ahem) and there's always going to be that family that's super chill and laid back and think it's more important for kids to find their own bliss than to learn how to spell bliss or wash their hair."

 

😂😂😂😂 this quote ...

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I think it goes back to the reasons people homeschool.

 

Those that feel a conviction to do it (like a large percentage of the "old school" crowd) will search out curriculum and put more emphasis on home teaching.

 

Those that are running from the public school (bullying, bad crowd, substandard curriculum) are looking more for an answer to that and look for the quick way to get started without leaving the good parts of public school behind (nice kids, free, easy).

 

As the choice got more mainstream the options opened for both types of homeschoolers.  It's not bad, it's just you have more to choose from and that can definitely be overwhelming for newbies.  I remember looking at the small handful of secular science and history available and wanting to cry.  Now I can outsource one of those to a hands on class if I want.  I can find a passionate teacher for my kid.  I can just choose to educate him in whatever is the best way for him and pick and choose from the wealth available. 

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I do feel the trend has some negative(though unintentional) effects on some of us though. I'm homeschooling because I fundamentally disagree with classroom style learning for young children. This eliminates co-ops for us, which are the ONLY type of homeschool social outlet in my area. I desperately miss the park days and informal gatherings of my homeschool years, but they're gone here and there's been no interest in restarting one. We also live in a small town where life and community revolves around the one public school.

 

I teach online, so I am all for different types of learning. My mom would have loved to be able to outsource some of my high school classes, I'm sure. You can appreciate the great gains homeschooling has made while still acknowledging that with every gain there is some loss.

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I've only been homeschooling about 5 years, but as best I can tell, I agree with you to a certain extent.  I think outsourcing at the high school level is prevalent, especially the content subjects.  I think this might be because college competition is so fierce now that many people are not confident that they can provide their homeschooled kids what they need to be competitive for college.  We have not outsourced anything at the college level yet, but I plan to next year when DD is in 11th, mainly for academic, outside, on-mommy references, and to validate mommy grades.

So a bunch of "oldschoolers" on another thread have brought up that homeschoolers are so different now that they have nothing to offer the current iteration of homeschoolers. The feeling is that homeschoolers now want curriculum already picked out and handed to them, preferably free, and/or content subjects outsourced. Is this really what we are seeing at large? I'm not seeing it. Using myself as an example, I started my first year of homeschool with a k-r and a 3rd grader. I did my research, picked out all my curriculum attended low cost art classes at the museum, and attended a few field trips that year with a meetup group. Second year, I tried a science class that turned out to be too expensive, too far away and too unfriendly to younger siblings needing a place to wait. We did not continue for the winter semester. We did fewer field trips and art classes. Third year I trailed an a la carte Homeschool Academy with one writing class for my oldest. That worked out really well and so this year we are doing three classes each for my three kiddos. Mainly writing and science.

It seems to me that as I meet families, we are not that unusual. Mostly self determined curriculum, mostly done at home with a few outside enrichment or academic or online classes thrown where needed. There is the whole CC following, but I don't really mix much with them because they have their own world. Do I live in a part of the world that doesn't match up to what the oldschoolers are seeing? I'm confused.


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Edited by reefgazer
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OMG, yes to the bolded.  We're always behind because of co-ops, but my kids live for the social stuff, so we continue.

My experience has been that negative comments from friends, family and co-workers have dropped off dramatically in the last five or so years.  But negative comments from other homeschoolers when they find out that I am doing it old school even in the high school years has increased.  I don't need their approval ;) but it has been a bit startling to me to have homeschoolers trying to talk me out of thinking that I can teach my own children.  I have absolutely no problem with them using a co-op or outsourcing things and do not try to discourage them or talk them out of that.  I wish that they would give me the same respect and courtesy.

 

As far as socialization goes, I've gone farther and farther away from seeking it within the homeschooling community.  I don't want socialization from a school. setting even if it is only once or twice a week.  (Plus - I can't see how in the world we would get our actual studies done.)   Again - YMMV and I'm ok with that but we've been just fine without co-ops.  I've offered co-ops etc. to my teens (only one now but both of them when ds was still in high school) and they don't see what is so special about homeschoolers that they need to specifically seek them out for their social interaction.  (Boy - that sounds snarky.  I don't mean it that way.  I just mean that they look for friends in general who have personalities and interests in common and educational method is not important in that equation.)  They have found friends in the community and in various places like the Y or other community groups. 

 

 

 

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I remember posting on the board in 2007 (when it was in the old format and still flipped) that I was going to work part-time and we were getting an au pair/tutor for my daughter.  I was choosing our curriculum and doing the planning, but the au pair and I would be sharing the teaching. 

I was told that I could no longer call myself a homeschooler, but had to say that my daughter was being 'tutored'.  The purist view was that homeschoolers were people who taught all subjects themselves and at home.

That view has certainly changed! 

 

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I agree, but in our state they are legally considered homeschoolers. I would call it more of a cottage school.

 

The weird side-effect I'm seeing is that non-homeschoolers have begun to see this as the norm. People with kids in public school will ask me what co-op my kids go to. Nope. I'm too busy teaching Latin and geometry to join (much less run) a bunch of co-ops.

This is what concerns me: the co-ops, UMSs, cottage schools, etc will come to be seen as normal, not just culturally as that’s easy to deal with, but in a de facto legal sense thereby making it harder for homeschoolers who don’t use those resources to jump through the increased hoops.

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I remember posting on the board in 2007 (when it was in the old format and still flipped) that I was going to work part-time and we were getting an au pair/tutor for my daughter. I was choosing our curriculum and doing the planning, but the au pair and I would be sharing the teaching.

I was told that I could no longer call myself a homeschooler, but had to say that my daughter was being 'tutored'. The purist view was that homeschoolers were people who taught all subjects themselves and at home.

That view has certainly changed!

Yeah if you're sharing the work, it's still homeschooling. But I've always had a pretty loose idea of what constitutes homeschooling. I'm actually ok with virtual charter people calling themselves homeschoolers. Shrug.

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This is what concerns me: the co-ops, UMSs, cottage schools, etc will come to be seen as normal, not just culturally as that’s easy to deal with, but in a de facto legal sense thereby making it harder for homeschoolers who don’t use those resources to jump through the increased hoops.

Those were the arguments against virtual charters 15 years ago and it hasn't really happened. Actually as home education has gone more mainstream, I find that its more accepted and easier to culturally maneuver. It's not more difficult to get into college or dual enrollment. I fact the second part is easier now that most edu websites have specific pages with homeschool transition info. That wasn't the case in 2004 or 2005. First you had to explain how homeschooling worked and then convince them to give you what you wanted. My oldest daughter was the first concurrently enrolled homeschool student at West Chester University in PA. We had to go through the continuing education department (adult ed) in order to enroll her without going through the admissions process.

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I'm on a state-wide homeschooling FB group here in TX. I am an old homeschool sort - I taught my kids at home and still do. They have taken outside dual credit classes, two writing classes (girls were sensitive to my criticism), and they attended a monthly science class at a Science Museum (but I taught science at home, did experiments, everything - this class was just a supplement and fun - the fact they offered dissections that would have been expensive for me to do at home was also super convenient).

 

What I see now on various FB groups - people pulling their children from school for random reasons and who have done zero research on homeschooling. Their questions? What online program can I use so I can continue to go to work? They seem really offended if you suggest that leaving a child - even an older teen - at home all day alone with a computer unsupervised isn't an ideal situation. There have even been people who pull seniors - I'm assuming because the school isn't going to let them graduate - especially since they pull them in late spring of their senior year. These people are also appalled that they have to pay for homeschooling curricula. They complain about the price of anything and everything. Many think that now they won't have to continue paying school taxes (like your school tax is some sort of tuition for public school). If you try to share ideas, concerns, thoughts, etc with them - many are offended. Surely you are wrong and this doesn't fit into their idea of what homeschooling is. Their vision - Set child up with free online education program, they leave to go to work, they come home from work, child is now happy and well-educated. 

 

It is different now. Parents seem less involved and more likely to outsource all education than ever before - maybe because there are more options now? Our local group has wondered about the definition of homeschoolers. It used to be that HSLDA had some sort of criteria that the parent provided some percentage of direct instruction at home (maybe 51%?) of curriculum of their choice. If you are doing K12 online through the school district, are you a homeschooler? (No, K12 will even tell you that in TX.) If you are doing an all online program with no parental supervision/oversight/etc, are you a homeschooler? If your child attends a UMS, are you a homeschooler? If your kid is taking all dual credit classes, are you a homeschooler? 

 

 

 

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