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Three weeks post Hurricane Maria....


Elfknitter.#
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you can fly helos and drop supplies pretty easily from a ship. Next excuse?

You think I want to make excuses? And we are going to drop water from helicopters? There have been millions of gallons distributed already and many people still don't have water. How much help would helicopters be? We have ships there, and many personnel, military and civilian, working their butts off.
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I think you're making excuses, yes. I have no idea what your intentions are. We absolutely can drop water from helicopters just as we can pluck people from high seas with helicopters. Guess which one is tougher? How much help would helo drops be? I dunno. Let's try it and see. I bet the recipients would appreciate that over contaminated streams don't you?

 

It doesn't matter how much has already been done when it is clearly NOT enough. At some point in the chain, whether it's local leadership or federal responders, a breakdown is occurring because the aid is not getting to those who need it and people are dying.

 

IT.IS.NOT.ENOUGH and, for whatever reason, people seem determined to claim that it is despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

I had this exact same argument with FEMA staff after Katrina when they wanted 'credit' for all their work. You don't get to stop and pat yourself on the back when people are dying. You put your head down and do more. You don't break for pedicures. You don't pass blame. You work on solutions, not excuses.

Edited by Sneezyone
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https://vid.me/vToxh

 

Maddow reporting on HHS Spa Days on taxpayers' time and lack of organization/logistics.

Quotes and link to written report:

 

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow broke the story and reported the doctor had said that the response in Puerto Rico "is being run in a way she has never seen in her 20 years of federal disaster response experience."

The doctor alleged that medical workers, while receiving pay, had "used the triage tents that are supposed to be for medical care and instead they brought in local Puerto Rican residents to give the medical workers cut-rate manicures and pedicures," Maddow said.

"I find this gross misuse of taxpayer funds and abuse of our privileged positions personally abhorrent," the doctor wrote in her resignation, Maddow reported. The doctor had worked for the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) which works in coordination with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

The doctor said she could "no longer serve with honor." And that she found the "optics of NDMS medical personnel responsible for seeing injured and ill Puerto Ricans who have no homes, food or supplies having a spa day on taxpayer money," to be "personally abhorrent."

The doctor's name was not revealed but after an inquiry from MSNBC, HHS has referred to the person as Dr. Khanna. Photographs of the "spa day" were shared with the network and medical workers can be seen wearing flip-flops in an attempt to dry their pedicure.

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/13/puerto-rico-relief-worker-quits-after-government-funded-spa-day-report/

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This just popped up in another thread. The disaster relief package approved Thursday has $5 billion earmarked for Puerto Rico.

 

It's in the form of a loan.

 

House Republicans are finger wagging at Puerto Rico's "lack of fiscal responsibility" and say it would be irresponsible and unfair to other states (puerto Rico, as we know is not a state) if they were to bail out Puerto Rico.

 

Puerto Rico is not a state, even though it is controlled by the United States and its residents are American citizens. The island’s financial troubles — the ones Meadows and others in Congress use to make the case for holding back aid — stem from an act of Congress itself. In 1996, Congress began phasing out Section 936, a tax break that lured manufacturers to the island. With no clout in Congress, Puerto Rican politicians were powerless to protect it. And, indeed, some on the island hoped that phasing out the tax break would bring the island closer to statehood.

 

That hasn’t happened, but the predicted financial devastation did arrive, leading to surging unemployment, stagnation and the fiscal crisis the island faced ahead of the storms.

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/13/freedom-caucus-chair-warns-congress-not-to-bail-out-puerto-rico/

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Barb_ This question is for you. What do you think the U.S. Government could and should have done, additionally, for Puerto Rico, following the 2 recent Hurricanes, that was not done? What additional Humanitarian Aid was not sent to PR that could have been sent to PR? What kind of Federal Personnel, military or civilian, were not sent to PR that could have been sent to PR, in addition to those who were sent?

 

If you were in charge, what would you have done differently? The one thing I know of that they would have done differently, is at the outset, they did not realize the need to send in Truck Drivers, to move the approximately 10,000 containers that were sitting in the parking area of the Port of San Juan, with Humanitarian Aid. In retrospect, many things are "20-20 hindsight", that are very unclear at the outset, or probably missed in the planning, like the need for Truck Drivers.

 

I pray for the victims of all of the recent disasters. They are victims. They need help. They are probably getting that help as fast as it is humanly possibly to deliver the help. Things are far from perfect. In PR, things are horrible and that will probably be the case, for a long time, because of the massive destruction to the infrastructure. Very sad situation in PR. One of my friends in PR also has clients in the Dominican Republic and he is there now. Hopefully his wife and children are with him. Most people on PR do not have the options he does. The people of PR are suffering, tremendously.

I missed this, sorry.

 

Im not a specialist in disaster recovery efforts, so I dont know the answers to many of your questions. Srill. I don't believe someone has to have all the answers in order to recognize when something is mishandled (see, Puerto Rico-loan and Rescue Workers-spa day and president-fighting with desperate mayor). I am taking issue with the individuals and the news networks who subtly or overtly insult, reprimand, and goad people who have lost everything and are in danger of dying. It's unconscionable.

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I think you're making excuses, yes. I have no idea what your intentions are. We absolutely can drop water from helicopters just as we can pluck people from high seas with helicopters. Guess which one is tougher? How much help would helo drops be? I dunno. Let's try it and see. I bet the recipients would appreciate that over contaminated streams don't you?

 

It doesn't matter how much has already been done when it is clearly NOT enough. At some point in the chain, whether it's local leadership or federal responders, a breakdown is occurring because the aid is not getting to those who need it and people are dying.

 

IT.IS.NOT.ENOUGH and, for whatever reason, people seem determined to claim that it is despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

I had this exact same argument with FEMA staff after Katrina when they wanted 'credit' for all their work. You don't get to stop and pat yourself on the back when people are dying. You put your head down and do more. You don't break for pedicures. You don't pass blame. You work on solutions, not excuses.

Intentions?!? I have worked in hospitals post-disaster sites twice, first Hurricane Andrew and next after Katrina. Right after we were hit by Irma here in Florida, I headed to the hospital though I wasnt scheduled to work, in case they needed an extra pair of nurse hands.

 

Are you heading to PR to assist? If not, then pipe down about my intentions, please. Communication is very difficult after disasters, supplies are difficult to get to those who need them because of blocked roads, flooding,finding the people, etc. Helicopters dropping supplies would help so few people compared with other, more logical ways to help people.

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<snip>

 

House Republicans are finger wagging at Puerto Rico's "lack of fiscal responsibility" and say it would be irresponsible and unfair to other states (puerto Rico, as we know is not a state) if they were to bail out Puerto Rico.

 

PR is not the only place with a "lack of fiscal responsibility" and corruption.  One could start with the city of Chicago and the State of Illinois. There are a lot of other examples.  It has been going on for a very long time.  In PR, like in the city of Chicago,  there is a lot of patronage, by politicians and union leaders.  Those with influential friends get the goodies.

 

If Chicago were to be struck by some disaster (I hope not, because I have relatives there), it would be a lot easier to get help to them, and to help them recover, than it is in PR or USVI.   I cannot begin to imagine what it would be like if we were discussing Guam and Guam had been hit by a Typhoon like PR was hit by the 2 Hurricanes, back to back.  How long would it take to get aid to Guam or the Northern Mariana Islands? Far fewer people live in those places than in PR, so the task would be much smaller, however, it would still be very tough sledding. 

 

A late friend had gone through the process of being an on-call temporary FEMA worker, some years ago.  I believe that when he signed up, he thought he might be deployed for a maximum of a few weeks at a time. The process was quite involved, like getting a DoD Security Clearance.  And then, the FEMA Training program. 

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Intentions?!? I have worked in hospitals post-disaster sites twice, first Hurricane Andrew and next after Katrina. Right after we were hit by Irma here in Florida, I headed to the hospital though I wasnt scheduled to work, in case they needed an extra pair of nurse hands.

 

Are you heading to PR to assist? If not, then pipe down about my intentions, please. Communication is very difficult after disasters, supplies are difficult to get to those who need them because of blocked roads, flooding,finding the people, etc. Helicopters dropping supplies would help so few people compared with other, more logical ways to help people.

Lady, I said that I don't know your intentions and made no comment on them. I said you were making excuses as an objective fact. You are, again, making excuses. The issues in PR and USVI are not so different from Haiti after the earthquake and yet the response there was more timely and better organized by all objective measures. Air drops help people all over the world. They matter for the ppl who get aid and they work, especially where roads are impassable. They are also a visible sign of assistance that helps with morale. That matters too. It's not either/or it's all of the above, all hands on deck because there's a flipping emergency. Or, yeah, let's just do nothing new and keep congratulating ourselves because that is truly helping. And nope, not headed to PR. Too busy living the dream in the ME. Edited by Sneezyone
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I missed this, sorry.

 

Im not a specialist in disaster recovery efforts, so I dont know the answers to many of your questions. Srill. I don't believe someone has to have all the answers in order to recognize when something is mishandled (see, Puerto Rico-loan and Rescue Workers-spa day and president-fighting with desperate mayor). I am taking issue with the individuals and the news networks who subtly or overtly insult, reprimand, and goad people who have lost everything and are in danger of dying. It's unconscionable.

 

I get my news on FoxNews.com  NOTHING I have seen there, videos or articles, is like what you described above, in the Bolded text. I agree with you that is "unconscionable".  The victims need help. The victims need prayers. Everything I have seen on FoxNews.com is aimed at showing their terrible plight and trying to get more aid  delivered to people who need it, where it is needed.

 

The Mayor of San Juan is another issue and that is a Political issue. She has not, IMO, served her constituents well.  They are suffering, like many other people on the island. 

 

I had also watched coverage of the Hurricane that struck Florida (Irma?) on CNN en Español with my wife and from PR and USVI and thought that they also did a very good job of showing just how horrible things were. In Miami Beach, in other places in FL, in PR and in USVI.  

 

I remember watching one video of an interview with the Director (?) of FEMA.  As he said, they are in DC, 1500 miles from PR, in their Command Center, and they do not have the information that the people on the ground in PR have, about what is needed and where it is needed.  They are dependent on the people on the ground in PR to tell them what's happening and what is needed that isn't available. 

 

All very complicated... Please include the victims of all the disasters in your good thoughts and prayers as I do.

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The first part of this article is about 3 more deaths that are attributed to Hurricane Maria on PR. The last part is about the electrical power situation.

 

 

"Maria hit the U.S. island territory Sept. 20 as a category 4 hurricane. The government says about 85 percent of the island remains without power.

FBI IN PUERTO RICO INVESTIGATING MISHANDLING OF FEMA SUPPLIES

Gov. Ricardo Rossello says he is pushing for outside aid to restore electricity and his goal is to have it back for half the island by Nov. 15 and for 95 percent by Dec. 31. But he conceded the task of rebuilding the transmission and distribution network is enormous.

"These are aggressive goals," Rossello told reporters.

Previously, officials had said it could take as long as March to reach that goal. "

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/14/puerto-rico-raises-hurricane-maria-death-toll-to-48.html

I cannot imagine going without electrical power for months.  Where we live (Colombia) it is very rare for the power to fail and when it does, it is usually only momentarily, or for a few minutes, unless something is knocked out by Lightning. I don't think we have ever gone more than 24 hours without electricity and that seems like an extremely long time. Usually, a few hours, at the most.

Potable water is the most precious thing and then electricity...

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Lady, I said that I don't know your intentions and made no comment on them. I said you were making excuses as an objective fact. You are, again, making excuses. The issues in PR and USVI are not so different from Haiti after the earthquake and yet the response there was more timely and better organized by all objective measures. Air drops help people all over the world. They matter for the ppl who get aid and they work, especially where roads are impassable. They are also a visible sign of assistance that helps with morale. That matters too. It's not either/or it's all of the above, all hands on deck because there's a flipping emergency. Or, yeah, let's just do nothing new and keep congratulating ourselves because that is truly helping. And nope, not headed to PR. Too busy living the dream in the ME.

Don't know much about all of this, not making excuses, just asking a question : is it possible that the response in Haiti was better than the response in PR because the responders weren't already dealing with the effects of two major hurricanes? There are limits to the abilities of governments to respond to disasters. I haven't googled, but maybe when Haiti happened it was the one major problem going on.

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Don't know much about all of this, not making excuses, just asking a question : is it possible that the response in Haiti was better than the response in PR because the responders weren't already dealing with the effects of two major hurricanes? There are limits to the abilities of governments to respond to disasters. I haven't googled, but maybe when Haiti happened it was the one major problem going on.

Sure it's possible but FEMA can call upon a variety of responders including DHS, HHS, Ntl. Guard, Coast Guard and DoD. The administration is not saying they're stretched too thin. They're saying 'we're doing enough', which is ludicrous.

 

As seen in Haiti, they can also call for, if they choose, international relief agencies. That sort of international support effort was rebuffed this time (see Mexico's offer) but is also hampered by the expiration of the Jones Act waiver (after only two weeks) and a failure of imagination among leaders IMO.

Edited by Sneezyone
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