Boy Scouts to open up to girls

[Soror]

Starting in 2018 girls will be allowed in the Cub Scout program and in 2019 there will be a program equivalent to Boy Scouts for girls, including an option to obtain Eagle Scout status. I'm doing a happy dance.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/11/557144847/in-major-shift-boy-scouts-says-it-will-begin-allowing-girls-to-join

[freesia]

I'll be interested in seeing how it is organized.  As the sister of an Eagle, mother of an Eagle and mother of a second class scout plus mother of 2 girls, I am thrilled one of my girls will have the chance to earn Eagle.  I love the program.  (Of course my second son was starting just as first son was getting Eagle and now my youngest would be starting just as second ds will be heading toward Eagle(hopefully).  It kind of makes me tired. LOL)

[Loowit]

I figured this was coming soon.  I am a bit sad that my DD will be too old by the time they make the changes and will not have a chance to earn Eagle.

[mamaraby]

Meh. They still won’t let atheists in. I’ll celebrate them when kids like my son can be members of Boy Scouts. In the meantime, maybe Girl Scouts will open their organization to boys and rhen kids like my son can be a member. We’ll stick with the Girl Scouts who openly welcome my atheist girls.

[poppy]

I suspect my daughter's girl scout leader will turn us to into a Boy Scout troop.   We have 24 girls, all 9 years old, but many of the girls (and the troop leader) have family in Boy Scouts and see it is, in some ways, better run .  It definitely offers more volunteer support.  Only challenge for me is that  Boy Scout is discriminatory....

 

I think this is a very big threat to American Heritage Girls. 

[skimomma]

This is great news.  It will be too late for my dd, unfortunately.  I was in girl scouts all the way through high school.  We had a "brother troop" that we did many activities together with....mostly because our troop leader was married to their troop leader.  We even had our annual ceremonies together.  That as probably against the rules but as far as I know, no one ever got in trouble.  Our GS troop often earned the BS badges when we deemed the GS badge of similar goals to be too "dumbed down" for our taste.  For instance, at the time the freeze out badge for GS only required that the temperature went below freezing at some point during the campout whereas the BS badge required that it be below freezing the whole time.  This was very insulting to my troop, so we earned the BS badge instead.  Had this been an option in my day, I am quite sure our troop would have flipped.

[Guest]

I can't help but wonder what this will do to the Girl Scout program. Will it wither up and die? Will it reciprocate and allow in boys? Will it merge with BSA?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kinsa

[marbel]

Well, our Scouting years are behind us but this news actually makes me kind of sad.  I think there is value in single-sex organizations for kids/teens. Though, I have to say, Girl Scouts paled in comparison with Boy Scouts with regard to activities when my kids were involved in those organizations. The boys did get to do much more exciting things, and the merit badges were for real achievements whereas the badges and such for GSA were not. That's my memory and experience, anyway, from 7 or so years ago.   

 

 

[HomeAgain]

The Girl Scouts turned all Troop Beverly Hills years ago, with a flair of American Girl thrown in.  If they had stayed true to their scouting roots, I doubt there would be a crossover more than the Venturing Scouts.

[mamaraby]

I can't help but wonder what this will do to the Girl Scout program. Will it wither up and die? Will it reciprocate and allow in boys? Will it merge with BSA?

I think it’s more of a threat to AHG than GSUSA.

 

I would hope they don’t merge. I like the Girl Scouts, my girls have a great troop, and again they’ll actually let us in. Dd1 is going to work on her Bronze award this year and doesn’t have to pretend to believe in a god to do it.

Edited October 11, 2017 by mamaraby

[Sandwalker]

 

 

Well, our Scouting years are behind us but this news actually makes me kind of sad. I think there is value in single-sex organizations for kids/teens. Though, I have to say, Girl Scouts paled in comparison with Boy Scouts with regard to activities when my kids were involved in those organizations. The boys did get to do much more exciting things, and the merit badges were for real achievements whereas the badges and such for GSA were not. That's my memory and experience, anyway, from 7 or so years ago.

I agree. So sad. The girl scouts are a wonderful organization..

[Beaniemom]

I think it’s more of a threat to AHG than GSUSA.

 

I agree. We jumped ship to AHG this year because it was as close to Boy Scouts as we could get. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[maize]

I'm excited about this, not a fan of girl scouts or AHG as organizations (though I think both have some great troops).

[Soror]

I can't help but wonder what this will do to the Girl Scout program. Will it wither up and die? Will it reciprocate and allow in boys? Will it merge with BSA?

GSA is not part of BSA so they will not be joining BSA at any point. They've tried to work together over the years but it hasn't worked out, there are too many differences.

[wathe]

Re threat to Girl Scouts:  Scouting has been co-ed in Canada since the mid-nineties.  And Girl Guides is still going strong here as girls/women only organization.  And in many ways Girl Scouts is more inclusive than BSA, especially with respect to religion.  I think GS might lose some girls over this, but probably fewer than you might think,

[Soror]

Well, our Scouting years are behind us but this news actually makes me kind of sad.  I think there is value in single-sex organizations for kids/teens. Though, I have to say, Girl Scouts paled in comparison with Boy Scouts with regard to activities when my kids were involved in those organizations. The boys did get to do much more exciting things, and the merit badges were for real achievements whereas the badges and such for GSA were not. That's my memory and experience, anyway, from 7 or so years ago.   

They can still be single sex. 

 

As an AHG leader I agree with pp's that this is far more of a threat to AHG than to GS but we'll see. I think BSA program is better than either of them but there are plenty in AHG (like myself) because GS is too liberal but find AHG too conservative. 

[Soror]

Re threat to Girl Scouts:  Scouting has been co-ed in Canada since the mid-nineties.  And Girl Guides is still going strong here as girls/women only organization.  And in many ways Girl Scouts is more inclusive than BSA, especially with respect to religion.  I think GS might lose some girls over this, but probably fewer than you might think,

UK has allowed girls since 1991 and required co-ed since 2007.

[poppy]

The Girl Scouts turned all Troop Beverly Hills years ago, with a flair of American Girl thrown in.  If they had stayed true to their scouting roots, I doubt there would be a crossover more than the Venturing Scouts.

 

I haven't seen that movie, but the problem with girl scouts these days is badges are pretty lightweight and often have  STEM emphasis.  STEM is great but it's also something the girls get at school.   Not enough camping and outdoorsy opportunities. 

 

They write badges and base programs off funding suggested by grantwriters. Then they put out polls with 3 very similar options.  Like: choose if we should have Science Exporter, Science Adventurer or Science Artist .  Then they say "Our new program, Science Explorer, was picked by girls!!"   Meanwhile the girls mostly want to learn to  canoe, shoot arrows, make fire.

 

BUT: Girl Scouts does have a long tradition, lots of dedicated volunteers with a long history in the program, and they have some great camps.

 

I view AHG as rely as a conservative Christian rejection of Girl Scouts.  If Boy Scouts is an option, I don't see why anyone would bother with AHG.

Edited October 11, 2017 by poppy

[HomeAgain]

I'm excited about this, not a fan of girl scouts or AHG as organizations (though I think both have some great troops).

 

Same.  I'd forgotten about AHG.  I think of them as rather distasteful, to use the words American Heritage to solely mean Evangelical Christian values.  It's wrong, and the organization will eventually die out or have to face the realization that they are not speaking for anyone's heritage outside their own, let alone an entire country's.

[AK_Mom4]

DD16 belongs to an all-girl Venture crew. DH is part of the adult leadership for the crew and also has his own Boy Scout troop. HIs guess is that they will lower the age for Venture crews from 14 to 11 (to pick up where Cubs age out) and add the option for Eagle to Venture in 2019. He thinks the same thing will go for Sea Scouts, Explorers and STEM, all of which already have a coed option. Many Boy Scout troops have an associated Venture crew already.

 

Eagle starting in 2019 would probably be too late for DD16. She is working on her second level now in Ventures and plans to get all the way through if she can. If Eagle was within reach, I am sure she would be excited and proud to earn it.

[Guest]

DD16 belongs to an all-girl Venture crew. DH is part of the adult leadership for the crew and also has his own Boy Scout troop. HIs guess is that they will lower the age for Venture crews from 14 to 11 (to pick up where Cubs age out) and add the option for Eagle to Venture in 2019. He thinks the same thing will go for Sea Scouts, Explorers and STEM, all of which already have a coed option. Many Boy Scout troops have an associated Venture crew already.

 

This is kinda what I'm thinking will happen too.

 

Signed, mom of four Eagle Scouts

[ktgrok]

Hmm. I love my DD have a girl only thing, and I hated selling popcorn, but agree the badges were way better in Cub/Boy Scouts. And the campouts. 

 

The Girl Scout group we just joined gave a badge for first aid for doing almost nothing this past meeting. I will be supplementing at home. And our "camp out" is in dormitory style barracks :(

 

AHG was fine conservative wise, as at her age they didn't focus on purity and the like, but the groups by me turned out to be full of racists. So had to leave. 

 

And we ARE Christian, so that isn't an issue. But they'd have to change the name or something, lol. 

[Soror]

DD16 belongs to an all-girl Venture crew. DH is part of the adult leadership for the crew and also has his own Boy Scout troop. HIs guess is that they will lower the age for Venture crews from 14 to 11 (to pick up where Cubs age out) and add the option for Eagle to Venture in 2019. He thinks the same thing will go for Sea Scouts, Explorers and STEM, all of which already have a coed option. Many Boy Scout troops have an associated Venture crew already.

 

Eagle starting in 2019 would probably be too late for DD16. She is working on her second level now in Ventures and plans to get all the way through if she can. If Eagle was within reach, I am sure she would be excited and proud to earn it.

That sounds like a viable option and probably the easiest way to do it. 

[bettyandbob]

I can't help but wonder what this will do to the Girl Scout program. Will it wither up and die? Will it reciprocate and allow in boys? Will it merge with BSA?

Girl scouts has been clear in the past they won't merge. I think they've dumbed down their program a lot and many young women will be interested in BSA programming. Troops can be single sex if they want.

 

I think the success of co ed venture programs made this an easy decision.

[ErinE]

Re threat to Girl Scouts: Scouting has been co-ed in Canada since the mid-nineties. And Girl Guides is still going strong here as girls/women only organization. And in many ways Girl Scouts is more inclusive than BSA, especially with respect to religion. I think GS might lose some girls over this, but probably fewer than you might think,

Can I ask about the program? In the states, the Girl Scout program is notorious for being awful. I've helped my daughter through the Brownie and Junior journeys and the girls hated them. When I was the Brownie leader, I had to change the journeys so much that they looked nothing like what was laid out in the leadership books (though the girls did meet the requirements). It was frustrating for me to essentially reinvent the program from scratch to keep it interesting for the girls.

[Guest]

I can't help but wonder what this will do to the Girl Scout program. Will it wither up and die? Will it reciprocate and allow in boys? Will it merge with BSA?

Our GS leader (who is also a Cub Scout leader) is pissed. She thinks the BS are trying to steal from the GS. My thought is, if GS was meatier, maybe the girls wouldn’t want to join BS.

[Guest]

Well, our Scouting years are behind us but this news actually makes me kind of sad. I think there is value in single-sex organizations for kids/teens. Though, I have to say, Girl Scouts paled in comparison with Boy Scouts with regard to activities when my kids were involved in those organizations. The boys did get to do much more exciting things, and the merit badges were for real achievements whereas the badges and such for GSA were not. That's my memory and experience, anyway, from 7 or so years ago.

It will still follow the same-gender model:

 

"Starting in the 2018 program year, families can choose to sign up their sons and daughters for Cub Scouts. Existing packs may choose to establish a new girl pack, establish a pack that consists of girl dens and boy dens or remain an all-boy pack. Cub Scout dens will be single-gender — all boys or all girls. Using the same curriculum as the Boy Scouts program, the organization will also deliver a program for older girls, which will be announced in 2018 and projected to be available in 2019, that will enable them to earn the Eagle Scout rank. This unique approach allows the organization to maintain the integrity of the single gender model while also meeting the needs of today’s families."

 

http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kinsa

[Guest]

Our GS leader (who is also a Cub Scout leader) is pissed. She thinks the BS are trying to steal from the GS. My thought is, if GS was meatier, maybe the girls wouldn’t want to join BS.

I admit, in raising six boys and no girls, I am completely clueless as to Girl Scouting. But you are not the first person I've heard who has expressed this sentiment.

[TeenagerMom]

This is exciting to me and my DD is so bummed that she turns 18 next year.  I grew up tagging along to all my brothers' Scouting events.  I lived at the Scout camp during the summer with my parents who ran it.  I quit Girl Scouts at age 10 because spending my time with the Boy Scouts was way more fun.  It really ISN'T a single gender activity when there are numerous Mothers who are Den and Troop Leaders and female siblings who tag along to all the events.  My Mother and StepMother were both heavily involved all the way until all 3 of my brothers achieved their Eagle Scout. 

[marbel]

It will still follow the same-gender model:

 

"Starting in the 2018 program year, families can choose to sign up their sons and daughters for Cub Scouts. Existing packs may choose to establish a new girl pack, establish a pack that consists of girl dens and boy dens or remain an all-boy pack. Cub Scout dens will be single-gender — all boys or all girls. Using the same curriculum as the Boy Scouts program, the organization will also deliver a program for older girls, which will be announced in 2018 and projected to be available in 2019, that will enable them to earn the Eagle Scout rank. This unique approach allows the organization to maintain the integrity of the single gender model while also meeting the needs of today’s families."

 

http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/

 

Ah, thanks.

 

My bad for not reading the whole article and having a knee-jerk reaction!   

[HomeAgain]

Our GS leader (who is also a Cub Scout leader) is pissed. She thinks the BS are trying to steal from the GS. My thought is, if GS was meatier, maybe the girls wouldn’t want to join BS.

 

Yes.  I looked this up when my niece and nephew were scouting.  His was decent.  Hers was this: http://www.girlscouts.org/en/our-program/badges/badge_explorer.html

 

Nope.  Nope. Nope.  BSA doesn't do badges for independence, making friends, helping around the house, playing dress up, or being a "social butterfly".  And as an aside, if GS stopped giving out badges for all this nonsense it would cut down on the cost (and the pink.  Oh, so much pink!)

 

 

OTOH, a lot of people, including myself were extremely disappointed with the BSA's lack of response over the jamboree this year and have chosen not to involve our children in scouting anymore until they shore up the values they're supposed to be teaching.  This could all be a response to possibly declining numbers from fed up parents.

[Guest]

Ah, thanks.

 

My bad for not reading the whole article and having a knee-jerk reaction!

I did the same thing when I saw the headline. "What?!? Why the heck can't my boys have a truly all-boy experience? Is nothing sacred anymore???" But as I investigated further, I actually rather like the idea. I'm especially attracted to the idea of all-girl dens and all-boy dens being in the same pack together, enabling a united family experience. And if what others say about the tepid program of the Girl Scouts is true, then I'm all for girls having access to a quality scouting program.

 

But the times, they are a-changin', that's for sure!

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kinsa

[chiguirre]

The Girl Scouts turned all Troop Beverly Hills years ago, with a flair of American Girl thrown in.  If they had stayed true to their scouting roots, I doubt there would be a crossover more than the Venturing Scouts.

 

That describes a lot of GS troops but not all of GSA. Once girls get to middle school they have lots of opportunities that aren't troop based. There are Special Interest Groups for backpacking, sailing, horses, drill team, 4 part harmony, robotics, rifle marksmanship and astronomy in my council. Those operate as separate entities from the troops and a girl can just be a member of a SIG. In some ways this system works better than BSA troops because they can draw kids who are dedicated to the specialty from a wide area. BSA has Sea Scouts (which is already co ed), for example, but it seems to be smaller and more spread out than GSA Mariners in my area. They're both good programs but they are different.

 

BSA tends to concentrate on troop based activities and doing things together with your home troop (at least in my experience, but Geezle only made Second Class) while GSA offers the SIGs and travel opportunities to individual girls so your scouting experience doesn't depend on finding enough girls in your area who want to do the same thing. You can go your own way. That's a big advantage for specialty programs.

Edited October 11, 2017 by chiguirre

[wathe]

Can I ask about the program? In the states, the Girl Scout program is notorious for being awful. I've helped my daughter through the Brownie and Junior journeys and the girls hated them. When I was the Brownie leader, I had to change the journeys so much that they looked nothing like what was laid out in the leadership books (though the girls did meet the requirements). It was frustrating for me to essentially reinvent the program from scratch to keep it interesting for the girls.

 

I know very little about Girls Guides of Canada's program, other than it is more inclusive in the sense that atheists are welcome, and God has been removed from the law and promise (substituting "my beliefs").

 

I am involved with Scouts Canada (formerly Boy Scouts) as a cub leader (and was a beaver leader prior to that).  From what I read on this board, it would seem that the Scouts program here is very different from what is offered in the US.  There aren't any "Eagles" for starter.  Their is a top award for each level:  North Star for Beavers (5-7 years), Seeonee for cubs (8-10), Chief Scout Award for  Scouts (11-14) and Queen's Scout award for Venturers  (14-17).  Scouts still reference God in law and promise, but the term God is defined loosely by the organization.  From the FAQ section of the Scouts Canada website:

 

Do You Have to Believe in God to Join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian Organization? 

No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. Spirituality has been one of the three main principles of Scouting around the world since its inception more than 100 years ago. Scouts Canada is proud of its commitment to diversity and welcomes members of many different faiths and denominations.

You need not belong to an organized religion, but all members must take the Scout Promise in good faith and leaders may include some form of spirituality in their program for the youth. “God†represents spirituality and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean an expression of your personal spirituality.

 

This is a loophole you could drive a truck through.  Other leader development materials have mentioned that "enjoy spending time in nature" is spiritual enough.  Pretty sure this wouldn't fly with BSA.

[wathe]

I should add:  In my current cub group there are 30 kids.  Only 3 of them are girls.  Girl Guides of Canada seems to run a solid (or at least very popular) program in my town.

[Guest]

I am kinda sad about this.

 

The thing wish GS is that so much is dependent on the quality of the leader. And too many troops have crappy leaders.

 

I did a TON of stuff with GS. Went camping a few times, enough to know I hated it, but I did manage to learn the basics of horseback riding at GS camp....the only opportunity I had. I went to Niagra Falls with my troop. I did a Wider Op to Europe for two weeks when I was 15. We did several service projects. We took Red Cross first aid classes. Bunches of stuff.

 

I did Explorers for a couple of years, I was bored. I did 4-H for a time too, and that was better than Explorers, but I quit in favor of scouts.

 

 

 

 

Here's something I wonder.....are there any other boy only organizations?

 

 

ETA:Also, my Girl Scout troop actually went to camp during boy scout camp-o-ree's with no issues (is that what they call multi troop camping weekends in BS? That's what we called them in GS.)

But it is a huge job!! I was a Cub Scout leader for a few years—never again!!

[chiguirre]

I forgot the most important difference even for younger kids. Summer camp is not troop based. GSA camps take individual registrations and you form a group with the other girls in your tent or cabin. That allows girls to explore their interests instead of doing a more general interest camp with their local troop. 

 

Wathe, the awards at each level is how GSA works too. They have Bronze for Juniors (4th and 5th grade), Silver for Cadettes (6-8th) and Gold for high school.

[momacacia]

So it sound similar to the policy on gay leadership that BSA changed a few years ago. Differemt troops cam determine whether they will be all boy or co-ed. Am I reading that right? I guess there's a lot of local authority in the organization.

[Wheres Toto]

Yes.  I looked this up when my niece and nephew were scouting.  His was decent.  Hers was this: http://www.girlscouts.org/en/our-program/badges/badge_explorer.html

 

 

 

Eating for Beauty

Comparison Shopping

Babysitter

Social Butterfly

:thumbdown:   Are these seriously what they think girls are interested in?  I was a daisy/brownie leader when my oldest was K-2nd grade, so a loooong time ago.  Long before the new program.   It wasn't great back then, but this is ridiculous.

[Soror]

oh it totally is. I have been a GS leader befor and probably will again at some point. But I also think that might be part of GS problem. Being a good leader takes time and work and lots of moms just don’t have that.

Really? I don't think moms have any less time than dads, especially in areas with more sahm's. Our BSA has a fair amount of female leaders.

[chiguirre]

Eating for Beauty

Comparison Shopping

Babysitter

Social Butterfly

:thumbdown:   Are these seriously what they think girls are interested in?  I was a daisy/brownie leader when my oldest was K-2nd grade, so a loooong time ago.  Long before the new program.   It wasn't great back then, but this is ridiculous.

 

I was recently a Cadette leader so these are fresh in my memory. The Babysitter badge is often done in conjunction with YMCA Babysitter and First Aid training so it's not a fluff badge at all (but it's also expensive because of the YMCA fees). Eating for Beauty was a nutrition badge and my girls actually both enjoyed it and said that they'd learned more about nutrition. The title is lame but the content is okay. Comparison shopping is one of the finance badges. You have to make a budget and comparison shop for a big ticket item. The Social Butterfly includes writing thank you notes and invitations as well as online stuff I think, we didn't do this one because it was quite a lot of homework writing. 

 

The names could be better, but a lot of the skills covered aren't fluff. If anything, they tend to be too schooly for an extracurricular.

Edited October 12, 2017 by chiguirre

[Lucy the Valiant]

So pre-existing BSA troops will not necessarily be open to girls, correct? 

 

[6packofun]

I'm sad and annoyed, but mainly because I'm tired of girls not getting what they actually want, not being listened to and then having to join the boys so that they can get the recognition and skills they want and deserve.  I love that girls and boys had their own organizations because you know what, they are different in ways that matter beyond what badges to get.  But Eagle Scout is way more recognized and there is just more rigor in general, it seems, for the boys.  So, once again, girls have to be measured by what boys have achieved rather than getting what THEY wanted all along.  Do they want a lot of the same things as the boys?  Sure, many do. But they are wonderfully, beautifully NOT boys in important ways.  And...no one cares.  :(

[heartlikealion]

I thought some of the clubs were supposed to be more appealing to one group for their "boys only" or "girls only" nature? Not that they don't associate with each other in school, etc. Just that for certain situations I was figuring youngsters might feel more self-conscious around each. I am sure my post will be taken way out of context. And I know there are children that are transgender and that things are not black and white. I'm just saying I'm not sure how all the kids will feel about this. I love the idea of girls being able to join scouts, just not sure about the co-ed aspect as I have very little knowledge of the actual programs/outings/bonding experiences.

 

 

Meh. They still won’t let atheists in. I’ll celebrate them when kids like my son can be members of Boy Scouts. In the meantime, maybe Girl Scouts will open their organization to boys and rhen kids like my son can be a member. We’ll stick with the Girl Scouts who openly welcome my atheist girls.

 

I guess I didn't realize this :/

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

I am excited for this and am looking to see where this leads scouting. Maybe GS will wake up and make it a better.

[Soror]

I think most studies are still showing that women tend to do the majority of the household management and child care type of work in families, regardless of how many hours may or may not be put into working.  So yeah, I do think that women often have less time to make a big volunteer commitment to running a quality troop.  I do not have the time to commit to running a quality troop......so I don't.  And I think that as a result, GS tends to really struggle getting quality leaders. 

I do agree Moms do a ton of things but I see women all around me running Packs and Troops. The biggest local Pack (100+ boys) is ran by a lady, I don't think any problem with GS is due to Moms running it but the program itself.

[Beaniemom]

If my girls do go the Eagle route when it is available to them I will be a little bummed for ds. Boy scouts was his one thing where no one was comparing him to his NT sisters. With all 3 being close in age and both dds being “quick learners†people do tend to compare (the kids themselves do) and ds notices. Life is what it is though and I shouldn’t worry about decisions we are not yet ready to make.

[Lucy the Valiant]

I also hope there will still be boys-only and girls-only clubs . . . our kids have gained a lot from their special clubs, things that have helped them become better people all around. 

 

 

[Ravin]

Well, we're not athiests, and in reviewing this I discovered they took away the transgender ban at the beginning of the year, so...time to see if DS wants to join Scouts (and maybe DD too, Girl Scouts was kind of a flop for her thanks to a queen bee troop leader's daughter).

[HomeAgain]

I think most studies are still showing that women tend to do the majority of the household management and child care type of work in families, regardless of how many hours may or may not be put into working.  So yeah, I do think that women often have less time to make a big volunteer commitment to running a quality troop.  I do not have the time to commit to running a quality troop......so I don't.  And I think that as a result, GS tends to really struggle getting quality leaders. 

 

I was a cub scout leader, and most of us leaders in the pack were female.  LOL Half of us were carrying our infants/toddlers through hikes.  I was on boards for boy scouts.  BSA tends to attract leaders of both genders.  Part of it is the simplicity.  There are clear expectations.  I can go to this site and know what is required and what the clear progression is for each level: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Girl Scouts is not nearly as clear or concise, and to be truthful, I don't have the energy to find convoluted answers or deal with a complicated system.  I don't want to have to figure out what Journeys are or buy extra books each year.  I don't want to have to deal with awarding patches for every baby step of the way.  I don't want to keep throwing money down a black hole.

And more, I don't think the organization is fair to participants.  It's not often you hear of a BSA troop or pack closing themselves off to new members.  They just split and create another den or patrol within the same pack/troop, with an assistant taking on the extra den.  GSA doesn't seem to have the same umbrella style leadership and it is more often you hear of a troop that isn't taking new members so new girls have nowhere to go.  They can't be absorbed into a troop that is closed.  Parents end up giving more because they don't have that same resource that the boy scouts do.