Do we do what is best for me or what she wants? (class related) MINOR UPDATE in original post (class length)

[Kassia]

It will still be better than next term. There aren’t as many snow storms in Nov/Dec as there are later. But the dark is a drag. Is there a gym at the school where you could run?

 

No gym at the school, but I belong to a nearby gym that I use now for weights while she's in class.  They do have cardio equipment there.  

 

 

Have you checked it there is someone else going to the CC at that time with whom you could carpool?

 

I do know other people with kids going to the CC.  I could definitely check with them.

 

 

 

 

 

I would have my kiddo do the online version from Liberty University.

 

I checked and Liberty is really expensive!  I am going to look for other online options.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there a running store in the college town or anywhere nearby? The staff are usually avid runners and may be able to help you lay out a route to run from campus while she is in class.

 

How early would you have to get up to get the run in before leaving at 7:15 to drive her? I had to get up once this week at 4:30 to get my run in before another commitment. Not sure how I would fare doing that three times a week though.

 

 

I'd probably have to get up no later than 5:30am?  Maybe a bit earlier.  The big issue is that it would be so dark that I wouldn't be able to see the road to avoid ice so it wouldn't be safe.

 

 

8 a. m. class, aside from reasons mentioned above, it beats the school bus traffic that will be present for the other two options.  Definitely consider carpool.

 

The CC probably has a cross country route laid out if you don't want to  figure out an on campus route.

 

Carpool is an idea I can look into.  School starts here at 7:30am for middle/high school so there would be school traffic.  

 

 

 

 

I'm sure not all on-line courses are equal, but my kid did a pre-calc on-line with the local CC and he hated it.  He got through it, but he said he'd never do it again.  I don't recommend Calc 1 as an on-line course especially if this is her first time taking a college course. 

 

8 am is probably more ideal, but I don't think 5:30 is that bad.  When younger I was more of a night owl so I wouldn't have minded that. 

 

 

Dd has taken both online and regular classes at the CC and both have been good experiences for her (so far).  She's taking trigonometry online now and chemistry in the classroom.  

Edited October 6, 2017 by Kassia

[almondbutterandjelly]

I agree with KarenNC.  This isn't about your run (although self care is very important.  It's not selfish to look after your own health to be able to do your mom job).  This is really a safety issue about driving in the dark in the winter in a snowy, icy place with no great comfort level about that kind of driving.  Just no.  Sorry honey.  We will figure something else out.

 

And do not feel guilty for needing to run.  It's a need.  You're not wanting to sit on the couch eating bon bons.  You do this to take care of yourself.  You matter.  Your needs matter.  And you can't be there for everybody else if you don't take care of yourself.

[TravelingChris]

I would do the 8 am class because over 2 hours of math class is just too much.  I would drive her to the class, and run someplace locally.  It is only 3 days a week anyway and only for 15 weeks.  

[MysteryJen]

8 am class.  1. a good professor is worth the drive 2. You will have bad weather regardless of semesters and driving in bad weather is part of living where there is bad weather 3. You can run/do a workout while she is in class, so your running reason isn't very compelling. 4. She is 15. And won't be driving for at least a year, so are you going to wait that long to take the class? And then you will have a young driver making that drive in bad weather-this is good practice for a permitted driver, so she can be experienced when she wants to go it alone.

 

YMMV, this is coming from a family that has risen at 4:45 am 3-5 times a week for the last 5 years and left the house at 5 am, no matter what the weather. Next year, dd2 will have her license and our driving to morning practice will be at an end. All this stuff ends; do what is best for your daughter.

 

 

[katilac]

I can't help but think your title should read:

 

Do what I want or what is best for her?

 

Penalty for unnecessary harshness. 

 

OP, it seems to me that Thinkwell will solve the problem, yes? 

[Kassia]

I agree with KarenNC.  This isn't about your run (although self care is very important.  It's not selfish to look after your own health to be able to do your mom job).  This is really a safety issue about driving in the dark in the winter in a snowy, icy place with no great comfort level about that kind of driving.  Just no.  Sorry honey.  We will figure something else out.

 

And do not feel guilty for needing to run.  It's a need.  You're not wanting to sit on the couch eating bon bons.  You do this to take care of yourself.  You matter.  Your needs matter.  And you can't be there for everybody else if you don't take care of yourself.

 

 

Yes, the safety issue is the big thing.  I can figure out the run.  I'm an anxious person so the change in routine worries me ahead of time, but I know I can work something out.  

 

 

 

Penalty for unnecessary harshness. 

 

OP, it seems to me that Thinkwell will solve the problem, yes? 

 

Thinkwell might work.  Dd really liked it for Algebra 2.  I just wish we had started earlier so she could take the AP test.  Not sure how it will work if she just takes Thinkwell for Calculus 1 and then wants to enroll in Calc 2 for DE in the fall without proof that she mastered Calc 1.  

[KarenNC]

Yes, the safety issue is the big thing.  I can figure out the run.  I'm an anxious person so the change in routine worries me ahead of time, but I know I can work something out.  

 

 

 

 

Thinkwell might work.  Dd really liked it for Algebra 2.  I just wish we had started earlier so she could take the AP test.  Not sure how it will work if she just takes Thinkwell for Calculus 1 and then wants to enroll in Calc 2 for DE in the fall without proof that she mastered Calc 1.  

 

Can she take the CLEP test for calculus to show mastery? At our community college, the CLEP calculus exam with a 50 or better gives credit for calculus 1.

 

To me, nothing that you've described about the 5:30 class automatically screams "bad educational option." Unless I totally misread the OP, the professor at 5:30 has great reviews, just not a lot of them and is not as familiar to the student since she hasn't had that particular professor before. It's the professor at 9:30 that's bad. So it's not a choice between great prof at 8 and horrible prof at 5:30, it's between known great prof and probably great but unfamiliar prof. As to the length, a long class in a random subject or one that isn't of interest is a different proposition than a long class in a subject in which the student is interested and gifted (I would count a 15 yo going into DE calculus to likely be both gifted in and interested in math). My daughter's 2.5 hr English class gets a 20 min break and her 2 hour statistics class gets a 10 min break. Half of the math class is also a lab on one of the two days, so it isn't 2 hours of lecture. The calculus classes here that are 2 hours twice a week are an hour class and an hour lab each day. This is also not a student who has no experience with DE, which would be a different matter. She has a better feel for the kind of workload a DE math class entails.  

 

Did I miss that there isn't an online option for DE calculus this coming semester? If she's had good experiences with online math at that college, it would seem to be a potential option.

Edited October 6, 2017 by KarenNC

[OneStepAtATime]

Can she take the CLEP test for calculus to show mastery? At our community college, the CLEP calculus exam with a 50 or better gives credit for calculus 1.

 

Also, unless I totally misread the OP, the professor at 5:30 has great reviews, just not a lot of them and is not as familiar to the student since she hasn't had that particular professor before. It's the professor at 9:30 that's bad. So it's not a choice between great prof at 8 and horrible prof at 5:30. As to the length, a long class in a random subject or one that isn't of interest is a different proposition than a long class in a subject in which the student is interested and gifted (I would count a 15 yo going into calculus to likely be both gifted in and interested in math). This is also not a student who has no experience with DE, which would be a different matter. She has a better feel for the kind of workload a DE math class entails.

 

Did I miss that there isn't an online option for DE calculus this coming semester? If she's had good experiences with online math at that college, it would seem to be a potential option.

Agree, with the above.

[regentrude]

 So it's not a choice between great prof at 8 and horrible prof at 5:30. As to the length, a long class in a random subject or one that isn't of interest is a different proposition than a long class in a subject in which the student is interested and gifted (I would count a 15 yo going into calculus to likely be both gifted in and interested in math). 

 

Math is a subject where a long class is not very effective.

Ideally, the lecture teaches math concepts, and then the students have a chance to let these concepts settle and solidify them through homework before the next lecture which introduces concepts that build upon the understanding of the previous concepts.

Long math lectures either need to dump all the concepts on students without giving them a chance to process the first portion in between (drinking from the firehose approach), or they need to spend a significant amount of in class time on the practice and solidifying that would happen outside of class in a regular setting. In either scenario, the quality of the learning experience is inferior to several shorter classes.

And this is without considering that an evening class may have instructor and students tired, which will further reduce effectiveness of learning.

I think fitting a five hour math class into two sessions is a horrible idea pedagogically.

[KarenNC]

Math is a subject where a long class is not very effective.

Ideally, the lecture teaches math concepts, and then the students have a chance to let these concepts settle and solidify them through homework before the next lecture which introduces concepts that build upon the understanding of the previous concepts.

Long math lectures either need to dump all the concepts on students without giving them a chance to process the first portion in between (drinking from the firehose approach), or they need to spend a significant amount of in class time on the practice and solidifying that would happen outside of class in a regular setting. In either scenario, the quality of the learning experience is inferior to several shorter classes.

And this is without considering that an evening class may have instructor and students tired, which will further reduce effectiveness of learning.

I think fitting a five hour math class into two sessions is a horrible idea pedagogically.

 

I was editing my initial response, so you didn't see what I posted about calculus classes in our DE situation. The classes aren't 2 hours of lecture, they are an hour and 15 min of lecture followed by a short break and then an hour of lab each day. I wonder how the OP's DE calculus classes are set up?

 

As to tired, on the part of the student that would depend on the rest of the schedule and how that student works best. My daughter would be much more likely to be tired and have more difficulty performing as well in an 8 am class than in a 5:30 one. All of this is why I don't think there can be a blanket statement that the 8 am one is automatically the only viable educational choice (which is how I'm seeing many posters frame it).

Edited October 6, 2017 by KarenNC

[bettyandbob]

Math is a subject where a long class is not very effective.

Ideally, the lecture teaches math concepts, and then the students have a chance to let these concepts settle and solidify them through homework before the next lecture which introduces concepts that build upon the understanding of the previous concepts.

Long math lectures either need to dump all the concepts on students without giving them a chance to process the first portion in between (drinking from the firehose approach), or they need to spend a significant amount of in class time on the practice and solidifying that would happen outside of class in a regular setting. In either scenario, the quality of the learning experience is inferior to several shorter classes.

And this is without considering that an evening class may have instructor and students tired, which will further reduce effectiveness of learning.

I think fitting a five hour math class into two sessions is a horrible idea pedagogically.

 

 

This is why my dd did not do DE calc her senior year and took AP statistics online that was offered by the school instead. 

 

She was left in a weird spot in her IB program because a teacher told her to get off the top track at the end of her sophomore year (when she had a B+ average), but there was no logical route. Junior year math teacher was disgusted dd wasn't in the top track and insisted dd NEEDED calc at the cc. But we didn't have an extra car for dd to drive to classes and the cc satellite very close to our home had only a meet once a week for 4 hours in the evening calc class. I have a degree in chem and have taken a lot of math. Once a week for 4 hours sounds like a nightmare. 

 

If I had to do it again I still wouldn't have my dd in a once a week calc class. I also would not have done the AP statistics class. It was awful. The teacher was never available to ask questions, never responded to email communication. If I had to do that again dd would have taken an online calculus class and I would have hired a tutor she could see once a week to cover any questions that couldn't be resolved through online communication. 

[Catwoman]

Yes, the safety issue is the big thing.

If that's the case, are you sure you want to look for a carpool option? Would you really prefer your dd to be driven in hazardous conditions by another college student who has limited driving experience, than to drive her yourself?

 

If you think the roads are too dark and dangerous for you to navigate that early in the morning, why would it be better for someone else to do it, especially someone with far less driving experience?

[Kassia]

Can she take the CLEP test for calculus to show mastery? At our community college, the CLEP calculus exam with a 50 or better gives credit for calculus 1.

 

To me, nothing that you've described about the 5:30 class automatically screams "bad educational option." Unless I totally misread the OP, the professor at 5:30 has great reviews, just not a lot of them and is not as familiar to the student since she hasn't had that particular professor before. It's the professor at 9:30 that's bad. So it's not a choice between great prof at 8 and horrible prof at 5:30, it's between known great prof and probably great but unfamiliar prof. As to the length, a long class in a random subject or one that isn't of interest is a different proposition than a long class in a subject in which the student is interested and gifted (I would count a 15 yo going into DE calculus to likely be both gifted in and interested in math). My daughter's 2.5 hr English class gets a 20 min break and her 2 hour statistics class gets a 10 min break. Half of the math class is also a lab on one of the two days, so it isn't 2 hours of lecture. The calculus classes here that are 2 hours twice a week are an hour class and an hour lab each day. This is also not a student who has no experience with DE, which would be a different matter. She has a better feel for the kind of workload a DE math class entails.  

 

Did I miss that there isn't an online option for DE calculus this coming semester? If she's had good experiences with online math at that college, it would seem to be a potential option.

 

 

I could look into the CLEP exam.  That's a great idea.  Our CC doesn't have an online option for anything past trigonometry in math, unfortunately.  That would make the decision much easier.  My dd loves math, it comes easy to her (so far), and she is considering it as a major in college.  You're right that if it were a different subject (like science or history, which she hates), a longer class would be torture for her.

 

 

 

 

I was editing my initial response, so you didn't see what I posted about calculus classes in our DE situation. The classes aren't 2 hours of lecture, they are an hour and 15 min of lecture followed by a short break and then an hour of lab each day. I wonder how the OP's DE calculus classes are set up?

 

As to tired, on the part of the student that would depend on the rest of the schedule and how that student works best. My daughter would be much more likely to be tired and have more difficulty performing as well in an 8 am class than in a 5:30 one. All of this is why I don't think there can be a blanket statement that the 8 am one is automatically the only viable educational choice (which is how I'm seeing many posters frame it).

 

Good point.  My dd tends to be strongest academically in the morning and then again at night, but my sons were definitely not performing their best in early classes because they were so tired.  

[Kassia]

If that's the case, are you sure you want to look for a carpool option? Would you really prefer your dd to be driven in hazardous conditions by another college student who has limited driving experience, than to drive her yourself?

 

If you think the roads are too dark and dangerous for you to navigate that early in the morning, why would it be better for someone else to do it, especially someone with far less driving experience?

 

I would only carpool when the roads were good just so I didn't have to make the drive myself and wait around.  If he's available, my DH would take her and then I would if he wasn't.  Also, the students I'm thinking of who could drive her are extremely responsible and I would trust them to drive as carefully as possible if it was bad out.  

[KarenNC]

I could look into the CLEP exam.  That's a great idea.  Our CC doesn't have an online option for anything past trigonometry in math, unfortunately.  That would make the decision much easier.  My dd loves math, it comes easy to her (so far), and she is considering it as a major in college.  You're right that if it were a different subject (like science or history, which she hates), a longer class would be torture for her. 

 

Are you limited to only that particular cc for DE? In our state, a student can take DE classes at any of the ccs in the state. If an online option would be good, perhaps another cc would have that available? That might be a more affordable option if the state subsidizes DE. Her current trig professor may even know of a colleague at another school that he might recommend. I would triple check to verify that the class would be completely online, not having to come in for finals or to hand in projects, especially if it's far away.

[EmilyGF]

Since she's 15, I'd have her take an AOPS class that isn't Calculus (Intermediate Number Theory, Intermediate Count and Prob., etc) and then do Calculus in the spring.

Kids who are really good at math need that breadth in math (said as someone who started BC Calc at 15). Rushing through to Calculus won't do her any favors, and doing these other streams of math will be really helpful if she wants to go into any field of science or social science. I really wish I had known that math offered more when I was that age (but maybe you're already doing this with her). 

 

Emily

[EmilyGF]

Also, I've posted about this elsewhere, but BC Calc at a community college isn't going to be deep, unfortunately. If she's used to AOPS or something like it, she'll probably find it easy and somewhat boring.

 

I took a year of community college math at Foothill and De Anza Colleges in the SF Bay Area and was really disappointed. I was 13 at the time.

 

Emily

[EmilyGF]

I could look into the CLEP exam.  That's a great idea.  Our CC doesn't have an online option for anything past trigonometry in math, unfortunately.  That would make the decision much easier.  My dd loves math, it comes easy to her (so far), and she is considering it as a major in college.  You're right that if it were a different subject (like science or history, which she hates), a longer class would be torture for her.

 

 

 

 

 

Good point.  My dd tends to be strongest academically in the morning and then again at night, but my sons were definitely not performing their best in early classes because they were so tired.  

Oooh, then definitely look into Number Theory at AOPS. College math is TOTALLY different than high school math, even to the point that what makes you good at high school math can make you bad at college math. Doing something like Number Theory would introduce her to the different way math is thought of at high levels while giving her a sense of what is out there.

 

Emily

[Pen]

I know someone who is / was confident about snow / ice conditions driving, and nonetheless had a serious accident in icy conditions, despite confidence, knowledge, and snow tires. Ice is slippery period.

 

In fact, even if you were a fantastic ice conditions driver and felt able to handle the drive personally, someone else could have their vehicle slide and crash into you.

 

And even if you carpool and another driver takes icy days--nothing stops that driver from being in an accident.

 

And around here the CC closes when conditions are extreme right  where they are--but if conditions are icy where outlying students are, too bad for the students.  And they have very few absences allowed without docking grades.

 

To me this is a complete reason for a NO on the 8 AM class.

[regentrude]

As to tired, on the part of the student that would depend on the rest of the schedule and how that student works best. My daughter would be much more likely to be tired and have more difficulty performing as well in an 8 am class than in a 5:30 one. All of this is why I don't think there can be a blanket statement that the 8 am one is automatically the only viable educational choice (which is how I'm seeing many posters frame it).

 

I was not only thinking of the OP's daughter, but of the general demographics that is in a 5:30pm class. I have friends who teach evening CC classes, and their experience is that many of the students who choose evening classes attend after a full work day. That is the group CCs cater to when they offer longer block classes in the evenings. That will have an effect on the learning.

It might be a good idea to contact the CC and inquire about the different demographics of classes offered at different times.

[2squared]

NM

Edited October 6, 2017 by 2squared

[Vida Winter]

I would opt for Thinkwell or something like it. It sounds like 8 a.m. would be difficult, and I suspect the evening class would be also since you would be driving in the dark and almost certainly disrupting your evening routine. Math is particularly suited to online learning.

[Dmmetler]

Also,check and see if the CC allows parents to get an access card for on campus facilities. DD's does, so I can use the work out room, library, etc. There may be an indoor track or treadmill somewhere you can use.

 

 

 

 

[Seasider]

I would bite the bullet and do the 8 AM class, it's just for one semester even though it will be challenging. A bad math teacher can be a transcript wrecker.

[Kassia]

Are you limited to only that particular cc for DE? In our state, a student can take DE classes at any of the ccs in the state. If an online option would be good, perhaps another cc would have that available? That might be a more affordable option if the state subsidizes DE. Her current trig professor may even know of a colleague at another school that he might recommend. I would triple check to verify that the class would be completely online, not having to come in for finals or to hand in projects, especially if it's far away.

 

I believe we are limited to just the one cc for DE, but I am looking into online courses at other community colleges (but not having any luck).  

 

 

 

I know someone who is / was confident about snow / ice conditions driving, and nonetheless had a serious accident in icy conditions, despite confidence, knowledge, and snow tires. Ice is slippery period.

 

In fact, even if you were a fantastic ice conditions driver and felt able to handle the drive personally, someone else could have their vehicle slide and crash into you.

 

And even if you carpool and another driver takes icy days--nothing stops that driver from being in an accident.

 

And around here the CC closes when conditions are extreme right  where they are--but if conditions are icy where outlying students are, too bad for the students.  And they have very few absences allowed without docking grades.

 

To me this is a complete reason for a NO on the 8 AM class.

 

 

Yes, this is exactly what I am afraid of.  No matter how good of a driver you are in winter, accidents happen and you can't control your vehicle on ice.  

 

 

Also,check and see if the CC allows parents to get an access card for on campus facilities. DD's does, so I can use the work out room, library, etc. There may be an indoor track or treadmill somewhere you can use.

 

Parents don't have access to the gym at our CC and it's really expensive if you're not a county resident (we're not).  Their gym is small and they close it for use when there are classes going on.  I do belong to a nearby gym with treadmills but they make me feel motion sick.  

[ikslo]

Penalty for unnecessary harshness.

 

OP, it seems to me that Thinkwell will solve the problem, yes?

I stand by it.

 

In my defense, her OP was heavy on the running being the issue, rather than the weather. She changed that in later posts to stress the weather. And it's not a JAWM post.

Edited October 6, 2017 by ikslo

[Kassia]

I stand by it.

 

In my defense, her OP was heavy on the running being the issue, rather than the weather. She changed that in later posts to stress the weather. And it's not a JAWM post.

 

I agree - it's not a JAWM and I did post to get honest opinions/comments.  But I appreciate the support as well.  :)

 

ETA:  I should have been more clear in my original post about how bad the driving conditions can be and how scared I am to drive in winter weather.  The safety issue is much bigger than the running and I didn't express that well in my original post.  

Edited October 6, 2017 by Kassia

[Tiffnkids]

Can she enroll in the 5:30 class and go to the first couple of classes - get the syllabus, textbook, get a "feel" for the instructor? If it doesn't seem like a good fit, she could drop it during the drop/add period (which wouldn't show up on her transcript). Or even try out the 9:30 class - depending on what she actually knows about that teacher - a lot of times students think difficult tests = bad teacher (but sometimes the teacher is just BAD).

 

If math DE doesn't work out for next semester, you have received a lot of great suggestions for how she can advance or polish her skills!

 

She can prep for SAT or ACT math, prep for SAT math subject test, work through a Pre-Calc text or two (for review or deeper understanding and to hit areas that weren't covered in her previous coursework), work through Calc 1 on her own either to test out of it or to get a jump start for a DE class, etc.

 

She's only 15 (so 10th grade?). So she definitely has LOTS of time left to DE math classes. My response might be different if she was a senior who needed one more math credit to graduate from high school (or earn an AA/AS degree).

[elegantlion]

My concern with the 8am class would be weather. Before we moved, I drove 30 highway minutes (~40 miles) each way to school over hilly terrain. We never had class before 9am and there were a few days I white-knuckled it all the way. My state has an app that shows how the highway conditions are and my starting point would have never been clear at 8am. I think my school has closed twice for weather in the 4 years I've been there, although the need to close existed more often. 

 

My ds would have loved a long 5:30 pm class because he's a night owl and hates 50 minute classes - too short according to him, but agreed it might not be the best way to introduce dual-enrollment. 

 

I don't know that there is a good option. I would probably try to find another option. 

[Kassia]

Can she enroll in the 5:30 class and go to the first couple of classes - get the syllabus, textbook, get a "feel" for the instructor? If it doesn't seem like a good fit, she could drop it during the drop/add period (which wouldn't show up on her transcript). Or even try out the 9:30 class - depending on what she actually knows about that teacher - a lot of times students think difficult tests = bad teacher (but sometimes the teacher is just BAD).

 

 

 

She's only 15 (so 10th grade?). So she definitely has LOTS of time left to DE math classes. My response might be different if she was a senior who needed one more math credit to graduate from high school (or earn an AA/AS degree).

 

She could do that (take the 5:30 class for the first week to see what happens).  

 

The 9:30am instructor got very mixed reviews.  Some were fine, but some were really bad.  Dd was torn about taking that class, but some things that were written consistently in the reviews made us hesitant because we want her to have a great experience and also don't want to mess up her transcript.  She might be fine in the class, but it seemed too risky at this point since, as you said, she has time.  

 

Her trig professor highly recommended the 8am class, but agreed that getting to the community college in spring semester can be a challenge and said that was a big reason he doesn't teach early classes there.  He really wants her to move on to calc in spring if possible.  Dd wants to so she can take as many math classes at the CC as possible before graduating since there are so many good instructors there.  She can take Calc 1, 2, and 3, plus linear algebra and differential equations.  She wants to take statistics, too.  If she doesn't take calculus in spring, she will probably take statistics there and then do a good review over the summer so she's prepared for calculus in the fall.  

[kiwik]

I do kind of understand the argument about long maths classes not being ideal but the difference between the 2 classes is 30 mins and there is a break. This is a 15 year old not an 8 year old. Focussing for 75 mins, having a break and then doing another hour should not be that difficult.

[snowbeltmom]

I do kind of understand the argument about long maths classes not being ideal but the difference between the 2 classes is 30 mins and there is a break. This is a 15 year old not an 8 year old. Focussing for 75 mins, having a break and then doing another hour should not be that difficult.

 

I don't think the duration of the class is the issue.  The issue for me would be the vast amount of material covered in a math class that long.  A student needs time to master a concept before moving on to another concept (that builds upon the first concept).  A class that meets three times a week provides the student a better opportunity to master one topic before moving on to the next topic.

 

The only class I would consider would be the 8 am class.  However, I also live in the snowbelt and would never sign my kid up for an 8 am class that begins in January.  (Although the last couple of years have been pretty decent weather-wise.)

 

II would use Thinkwell this winter and look into the possibility of having your daughter take a placement test or CLEP to test out of Calc 1 so she can take Calc 2 in the fall.

 

[Kassia]

 

 

The only class I would consider would be the 8 am class.  However, I also live in the snowbelt and would never sign my kid up for an 8 am class that begins in January.  (Although the last couple of years have been pretty decent weather-wise.)

 

II would use Thinkwell this winter and look into the possibility of having your daughter take a placement test or CLEP to test out of Calc 1 so she can take Calc 2 in the fall.

 

 

 

Snowbeltmom - we leave near each other and the CC we use is Lakeland - there is no easy way to get there, which is why the 8am class scares the heck out of me in January-March.  I'll ask the professor about a placement exam or CLEP test.  

[chiguirre]

Will there be more class options in the fall? Sometimes classes that are sets, like Calc 1 and Calc 2 will have many more sections in the normal sequence semesters than they do in the off semesters. If that's the case, I'll second Emily GF's idea of taking an AOPS class this spring, especially Number Theory or Counting and Probability.

[Mama Geek]

Something i have just thought about is won't it be dark earlier at night when the time changes during the winter?  It may very well be dark coming home even if you drive in for the 5:30 class.  I think you have to decide if you are willing to drive in the dark and if not the class should wait until next semester.

[snowbeltmom]

Snowbeltmom - we leave near each other and the CC we use is Lakeland - there is no easy way to get there, which is why the 8am class scares the heck out of me in January-March.  I'll ask the professor about a placement exam or CLEP test.  

 

Your description sounded like Lakeland, but I wasn't sure if you lived in the snowbelt in NY or some other state.  There is no easy way to get there for us, either - it is all back road rural driving on roads that are always the last to be cleared each morning.

 

Good luck going the placement test or CLEP route!  I hope that works out.

 

[regentrude]

I do kind of understand the argument about long maths classes not being ideal but the difference between the 2 classes is 30 mins and there is a break. This is a 15 year old not an 8 year old. Focussing for 75 mins, having a break and then doing another hour should not be that difficult.

 

My issue with long math classes is not the focussing. My issue is that for effective teaching you need to give students time to process and practice one concept before advancing to the next one that build upon the previous. They should be able to let concepts settle for a bit and let the brain do its work. Block teaching does not give students this necessary space.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the student's age.

 

ETA: This is even an issue with summer classes that cover the material of a semester in 8 weeks. There is not enough time between class sessions for students to process. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do kind of understand the argument about long maths classes not being ideal but the difference between the 2 classes is 30 mins and there is a break. This is a 15 year old not an 8 year old. Focussing for 75 mins, having a break and then doing another hour should not be that difficult.

 

No class I ever took actually had a break.  What they generally did was let everyone out sooner instead. 

 

I never had a problem with classes of this length.  I did have one night class that went to quarter to 9.  That was a bit rough.  I don't think I'd do that again, but this one is not quite that late.

[Kassia]

No class I ever took actually had a break.  What they generally did was let everyone out sooner instead. 

 

I never had a problem with classes of this length.  I did have one night class that went to quarter to 9.  That was a bit rough.  I don't think I'd do that again, but this one is not quite that late.

 

My kids always had breaks with the longer classes, but they would have preferred your experience to get out earlier instead.  

 

When my son did DE, he took an engineering physics class that was only offered at night.  The lab was once a week and was after class and went until 10:40pm!  It was a crazy semester for him since he had a calculus class in the morning.  Those were long days.  

[cera2]

I wouldn't assume that the 5:30 class includes a break.  If you look at class time, the 5:30 without a break and the 8:30 am classes end up with the same number of minutes per week.  

 

Is it possible that the 5:30 class will wind up being taught by the professor who isn't good?  

 

The most important things for most people, especially for math, will be a great instructor and regular, consistent exposure to the subject.  I would probably suck up the 8:00 am class since it is only for a semester.

[Kassia]

I wouldn't assume that the 5:30 class includes a break.  If you look at class time, the 5:30 without a break and the 8:30 am classes end up with the same number of minutes per week.  

 

Is it possible that the 5:30 class will wind up being taught by the professor who isn't good?  

 

The most important things for most people, especially for math, will be a great instructor and regular, consistent exposure to the subject.  I would probably suck up the 8:00 am class since it is only for a semester.

 

The earlier classes are scheduled for 85 minutes/3 days a week vs. 2 hours 15 minutes/2 days a week so they are pretty close, but not exact.  Maybe you're right about having no break, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't.

 

I did contact the dept. chair and he told me who he thinks is teaching the evening class.  Reviews say he's very good, but tough with lots of homework.  

 

I really like the Thinkwell idea - it seems perfect and would save us a ton of money and time/gas.  I thought dd would love it since she loved Thinkwell for Algebra 2, but she is opposed to it and wants to take all of her calculus classes at the CC now.  So, we are still thinking about what to do - early morning with the perfect professor, evening or just wait until fall.  Why can't this be easy?  :p

 

Thanks to everyone for sharing thoughts and opinions!  I am always touched by how helpful people are here.  

[Pen]

If the 8am class didn't exist, what would you do?

[Pen]

It can't be easy because 1) you have a multitude of options; 2) none is perfect; 3) of the non-perfect ones, a number seem to be likely very good, but not definitely known how they will turn out.  If you toss out the 8AM due to ice and driving concerns; and the one with a bad professor, you could probably write the remaining options on slips of paper, draw one from a hat and likely it would be fine-quite good (or if found not good, a change could be made).

 

Just to confuse things a bit, I had a friend who taught some CC courses and particularly appreciated her later class students because they were usually super committed to learning--adults with a mission and goals.  That probably differs from place to place.  Someone might be able to tell you for your particular CC.