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The phrase "Tall Poppy Syndrome"


Rosie_0801
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  1. 1. Does the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" make you feel...

    • Arrogant jerks deserve what they get.
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    • Don't be a small minded git. Let the poppies grow!
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I've heard the phrase but never took it to have a negative connotation in the sense that they should be cut down. I assumed it meant that those that stand out are more vulnerable to the slings and arrows of life.

 

I guess I misuderstood the phrase.

 

I figure it has the word "syndrome" in it so it sounds like some sort of disease or problem.  I don't think it's bad to stand out or be tall (literally and figuratively).  So it's a mismatch in my mind to attach "syndrome" to it. 

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I’m American and I’ve never heard it anywhere but here. At least among all the parents I’ve ever known I think the tendency is to assume your child is above average in some way. No one wants to admit if their child is average. Sometimes people list off their child’s accomplishments as if it’s a resume for the parent, or a contest. Gross in a different way.

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I figure it has the word "syndrome" in it so it sounds like some sort of disease or problem. I don't think it's bad to stand out or be tall (literally and figuratively). So it's a mismatch in my mind to attach "syndrome" to it.

When you put it that way, it makes sense.

 

I guess I took syndrome as a set of behaviors or characteristics common to a situation.

 

I was always unique. I had people try to cut me down for that. But, I assumed it was just par for the course.

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I've heard the phrase but never took it to have a negative connotation in the sense that they should be cut down. I assumed it meant that those that stand out are more vulnerable to the slings and arrows of life.

 

I guess I misuderstood the phrase.

 

The bolded is certainly true.  :glare:

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The "syndrome," I think, is on the part of people who can't help themselves from cutting down the tall poppies as a matter of course.

 

So if a whole country "has tall poppy syndrome," they tend to do things that cut down their best and brightest.

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You know, I would have said I never heard this kind of sentiment until a year ago.... I heard another parent say about a gifted child "she shouldn't even be here, she is taking away opportunities from the other children."  And this was because they did a little activity where they designed a seatbelt for a wooden car going down a little ramp, and this girl's group won!  I responded that I thought she was a sweet girl. 

 

So I have heard it just the one time. 

 

Edited by Lecka
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You know, I would have said I never heard this kind of sentiment until a year ago.... I heard another parent say about a gifted child "she shouldn't even be here, she is taking away opportunities from the other children."  And this was because they did a little activity where they designed a seatbelt for a wooden car going down a little ramp, and this girl's group won!  I responded that I thought she was a sweet girl. 

 

So I have heard it just the one time. 

 

LOL Yep. Unless the girl was slapping seatbelt components out of other people's hands, they still had the same opportunity as she did.

 

I just have no sympathy. If I can deal with a huge difference in native abilities in my own kids, other people can deal with some random kid being smarter than their kid!

 

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The bolded is certainly true. :glare:

The tallest tree in the forest may take the brunt of the winds on a stormy day but they also get the best of the breeze on a calm one. I blessing and a curse are often the exact same thing.

 

I admit it. There have been times in my life when being part of the pack would have been much, much easier. But, being the lone wolf is simply too sweet to give up. I relish it so much that I'm willing to take the slings and arrows.

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I am familiar with the term tall poppies as it is very common in the world of gifted ed.  I'm not sure about tacking on "syndrome."  Mostly, I get the speaker's meaning from the context and IME it is usually in defense of the gifted kids against those wanting to hold them back.

Edited by wapiti
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The "syndrome," I think, is on the part of people who can't help themselves from cutting down the tall poppies as a matter of course.

 

So if a whole country "has tall poppy syndrome," they tend to do things that cut down their best and brightest.

 

Not quite (in the Australian context anyway) because it is not about the height of the poppy, but the perception of the poppy's attitude. The poppy can grow as tall as it likes as long as it can keep everyone who can push a mower believing they are still just one of the boys. 

 

In a country with tall poppy syndrome, the best and brightest publish books about their charming country upbringings back on the family farm for that reason as much as cashing in on their own brand.

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The tallest tree in the forest may take the brunt of the winds on a stormy day but they also get the best of the breeze on a calm one. I blessing and a curse are often the exact same thing.

 

I admit it. There have been times in my life when being part of the pack would have been much, much easier. But, being the lone wolf is simply too sweet to give up. I relish it so much that I'm willing to take the slings and arrows.

 

You're lucky.  :grouphug:

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You know, I would have said I never heard this kind of sentiment until a year ago.... I heard another parent say about a gifted child "she shouldn't even be here, she is taking away opportunities from the other children."  And this was because they did a little activity where they designed a seatbelt for a wooden car going down a little ramp, and this girl's group won!  I responded that I thought she was a sweet girl. 

 

So I have heard it just the one time. 

 

I doubt anyone would say that if a child with exceptional athletic ability helped their team win. 

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I doubt anyone would say that if a child with exceptional athletic ability helped their team win.

Parents still say that when the coveted (to the parent) position of team leader goes to the exceptional sportsperson. My husband and I heard that at the gym my kids used to attend for gymnastics.

 

I have heard similar from high school kids about their schoolmates in school team. I have seen instructors in school favor their best athletes in coaching time so not surprising if parents or kids thinks that they are “shortchanged†because a student has exceptional athletic ability and the coach spend less effort on other students.

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Not quite (in the Australian context anyway) because it is not about the height of the poppy, but the perception of the poppy's attitude. The poppy can grow as tall as it likes as long as it can keep everyone who can push a mower believing they are still just one of the boys.

 

In a country with tall poppy syndrome, the best and brightest publish books about their charming country upbringings back on the family farm for that reason as much as cashing in on their own brand.

 

I'm all for humility. I don't think people should boast (as in hold themselves above others) for their strengths. However, I don't think we should force that square peg into a round hole by whittling it down.

 

It's a fine and difficult line. I wish I knew the answer.

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Not quite (in the Australian context anyway) because it is not about the height of the poppy, but the perception of the poppy's attitude. The poppy can grow as tall as it likes as long as it can keep everyone who can push a mower believing they are still just one of the boys.

 

In a country with tall poppy syndrome, the best and brightest publish books about their charming country upbringings back on the family farm for that reason as much as cashing in on their own brand.

Roger

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Ah! That's interesting. Do other places use a different phrase for the same concept?

 

If you stick your head out above the mowing field, it will get cut off. Also, don't stick your head out above the mowing field, and, sticking your head out above the mowing field.  Apparently since 2002 there's even the word maaiveldcultuur (with a Wikipedia page to go with it), which is about society not allowing people to stick their heads out above the mowing field. I can't find a source to say how old the original saying is (other than lots of people saying it's old-fashioned, which doesn't mean much, other than that it was around well before I was born). Also, not quite the same, but tall trees catch much wind is a saying in Dutch as well (and apparently there is a saying in Latin that means tall mountains get hit by lightning more often), and, "Just act normal, then you'll be acting weird/crazy enough", which dates back to at least 1935 (but didn't make it into the dictionary until 1976, after it made an appearance in a hit song a few years earlier). 

 

I don't remember how I first learned the thing about tall poppies - it might have been something about gifted education, or it might have been something comparing Dutch sayings to English sayings. Either way, I'm pretty sure I was a teenager when I first came across it, so I'm surprised so many boardies never heard of it - it's not like I was surrounded by Australians (and, I didn't realize it was considered to be an Australian saying). 

Edited by luuknam
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I know the phrase. I've been the tall poppy, and it's one reason I homeschool.

 

A friend who does not understand any syndromes, really, has been trying to talk me into putting my youngest child in school. He is, literally, head and shoulders taller than his peers, so he stands out in that way. And then he has kind of a special art talent, which gets some attention. He's kind, and tends to bring out the best in his friends in the baseball league -- so my pal thinks he'd be this tremendous success in public school. People love him, ergo public school would be fabulous.

 

Excepting he also has thick glasses, a congenital deformity, a speech impediment, and a huge vocabulary. He's proficient as a Latin student. He's got that particular brand of genius sarcasm that would endear him to a few teachers but that would make other teachers HATE him. He has never owned the proper kicks (shoes) in his life, nor is he likely to, and that's a big deal around here for boys his age.

 

He is not going to school. The things about him that people love, I'm sorry, but they love him out of the box. If he were in the box, he'd be a competitor with their kids (in academics, art, and music) so they wouldn't like him as much. And he'd be a target due to all his nonconformities. He understands this, just from attending SUNDAY SCHOOL. He insists on being homeschooled, because he's free to be different "out here," and people like him as long as he's out of the box.

 

 

 

All that said, I don't know how well Americans understand the Tall Poppy reference. People seem to be more familiar with some phrases already mentioned - the tall nail gets hammered down, he's too big for his britches, don't get above your raising. 

 

Syndrome-wise, people seem to be aware of Crab Bucket Syndrome, which is related but not the same as Tall Poppy. Crab bucket syndrome is when you are kept down by your environment. It comes from how crabs behave in a bucket. They mill around doing their thing, not really concerned, until one of them tries to climb out. Then they all instantly start working together to pull him back down. Or so the story goes; I've never actually watched a bucket of crabs do this...

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The idea of everyone needing to be the same has always seemed "socialistic" to me.  I don't mean this in a political sense but a philosophical sense. 

 

I have heard the term "cutting someone down to size" when they have unrealistic opinions of their own self importance.  But really, I think that life itself has a way of cutting us down to size when we have inflated views of ourselves.  The old "pride goes before a fall" thing. 

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Maybe not enough coffee, but what? I still do not get this.

Sorry, maybe I needed more coffee.

 

Here's the Lewis: http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/Toast_CSL.pdf

It's pages 9-10. My memory misled me, and I see Lewis was using tall ears of grain rather than tall poppies. I had remembered it as poppies, so I must have run into the expression elsewhere and remembered it back into the Lewis essay.

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What, exactly, does it means? I’m not familiar with it and the implication seems kind of muddled. Is it about specialness or being different? Better? Elite?

 

It's about any kind of different that is seen as better, or that the possessor of may be accused of feeling superior (whether he does or not).

 

Imagine hating a spelling bee winner. Not from the perspective of a child competing in the spelling bee, who is hurt and disappointed that she didn't win. Rather, imagine hating the spelling bee winner from the perspective of the PARENT of the "average" or "bright" but not "genius" competitor. You drive home from the competition disgusted, talking trash about the winner, telling your dd that it's too bad her parents didn't shell out money for dictionaries or cancel all their "normal, well-balanced" activities to study for hours, because obviously the winner has NO life...

 

and then you take it a step further. You pull strings to get the rules changed, at the state level, so prior years' winners may not compete again. Many people would see that as reasonable, so that will NOT satisfy you (your goal is not to be reasonable), so you decide to get that rule applied at the county level. But you're not really satisfied until there are no more spelling bees at school, so the best speller won't have a place to showcase what he can do.

 

You don't really care that your assumptions about his special curating with dictionaries, or hours of study, aren't even true. You just don't want to see anyone being that much "better" than your child, or than his community.

 

 

 

Another short illustration: Punishing a child who knows all the answers in history class, by leading the class in mocking the egghead, or calling him a smarty pants or know-it-all, or assigning extra homework until he learns not to speak up in class.

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My grandma used to say the phrase, and now I realize she didn't use it the way most of you are using it. For her, she'd want you to be your best and excel as far as you could, but at the same time you needed to be humble about your gifts and talents. If you walked around like you were the Queen of England because you had XYZ gift, she would say you had Tall Poppy Syndrome so don't be surprised to get cut back. She would say Nellie from Little House on the Prairie had Tall Poppy Syndrome because she always had to have the most lavish dresses and expensive bows and mostly because she would flaunt it in front of Laura. Then when Nellie inevitably fell in the mud, she was getting cut back due to her Tall Poppy Syndrome.

 

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I had never heard this phrase until I met my dh, who is an Aussie.

I could be wrong but my observation is that in Australia there is a bit more pressure to fit in and that the predominant acceptable culture seems to be working class (not that everyone is that, but that seems to be the presentation to make). So both of our countries can have superficial ways of presenting ourselves and it seems to me that Aussie way is that the pretense is that you need to act not quite that smart or quite that rich as you actually may be. If you don't you risk being a tall poppy. At which point one will not fit in (be like everyone else) and there will be glee when the tall poppy is cut down.

This exactly
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I have heard two sayings I think are similar. One is "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole," I think.

 

The other one is something about hammering down the nail that is sticking up higher than the others.

 

I think of them (and the tall poppy one) as being about "conformity" and desiring conformity.

 

I am pretty vague beyond that, though. Not sure where I've heard them or anything.

I am familiar with these two sayings. I know "a nail that sticks up gets hammered down" is a common one in Japan.

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To me, Tall Poppy Syndrome refers to the onlookers, not the actual tall poppy him/herself.

The onlookers want to cut the poppy down to size, resenting their achievements/talents or feeling threatened by them or perhaps jealous.

 

Sadly, it seems part of our Australian culture.

Even if the tall poppy is just doing his/her thing and doing it very well, others can quickly jump to calling it showing off.

 

It doesn't seem to happen as much in the sports arenas though ... 

 

I've heard of schools not giving too many awards to a top student because it would make the other students feel bad, even if that student genuinely topped all those subjects.

Can you imagine that happening at the school athletics or swimming carnival? Sorry Thorpey, we can't give you any more blue ribbons, even though you're clearly winning every race? Can't see that happening.

Edited by chocolate-chip chooky
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But isn't that preferable to people taking themselves ever so seriously and importantly ?

 

Tall poppy syndrome has it's drawbacks, but I do appreciate the lack of self-reverence it insists upon.

 

A little reminder that for all one's brilliance, one is a mere speck in the universe, never goes astray.

No. As I said before life itself brings braggarts back down to earth. Other people can mind their own business. In my opinion, of course.

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 But isn't that preferable to people taking themselves ever so seriously and importantly ?

 

Tall poppy syndrome has it's drawbacks, but I do appreciate the lack of self-reverence it insists upon. 

 

A little reminder that for all one's brilliance, one is a mere speck in the universe, never goes astray. 

 

The smartest, most talented or outlying kids, I mean the ones who are not just "above average" enough to show off and scoop up prizes, but rather the ones who are on a different plane in whatever way?

 

They already feel like freaks. They already know they don't belong. No help is required at all.

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Well Ime people can get mad if you just happen to know a few more things than they do then other people say after the fact that it's good to get cut down so you don't take yourself too seriously... But the person *wasn't* thinking too highly of themselves, they were just existing as themselves which happened to be we quicker on the uptake, and ppl didn't like it.

 

The "reminder" about being ultimately unimportant was justification to be cruel or exclusionary.

Edited by OKBud
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Well Ime people can get mad if you just happen to know a few more things than they do then other people say after the fact that it's good to get cut down so you don't take yourself too seriously... But the person *wasn't* thinking too highly of themselves, they were just existing as themselves which happened to be we quicker on the uptake, and ppl didn't like it.

 

The "reminder" about being ultimately unimportant was justification to be cruel or exclusionary.

 

I agree.

 

A tall poppy isn't necessarily thinking highly of him/herself and may well have no interest in showing off.

They can just be existing, with no attitude or ego or motives. 

Similarly, a parent or loved one of the tall poppy may have no desire to brag. Their child/loved one is just *being*.

 

It's pretty rough for them to have others feel the need to cut them down.

It's pretty sad that the tall poppies can often feel pressured to disguise themselves and bow their heads and hide in amongst the other flowers. I think it's sad. It can take a lot of courage and support to keep that poppy upright.

 

And another thing while I'm soap-boxing, those tall poppies may not even be feeling 'tall'. They may just feel different. They don't necessarily feel bigger, better etc. Just different. And often attacked for it.

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I was speaking to Rosie about a general cultural intolerance of the pompous. 

 

Rosie appreciates nuance and has the shared cultural understanding to know what you meant.

 

She can think of a few tall poppies who could do with a trim. Lookin' at you, Mr Potato Head.

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Thank you. Also, exactly who I was thinking of. Plus his mates.

 

I thought you were.  :laugh:

 

 

I wrote polarised polling options because I was interested in whether people were more likely to sympathise with the poppy or the bystanders given no information at all. It'd be a whole other conversation if we were judging actual scenarios. I doubt anyone here thinks it's good to bully gifted kids or it's fine for the 1% to be rude to taxi drivers.

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Gifted kids was the context in which I heard it applied.  As in, "We don't have gifted education here.   It just isn't done.  Tall Poppies".   

 

 

For me, the actual example wouldn't matter.   Now if I were angry at someone who was rude to the taxi driver, it would NOT be Tall Poppy Syndrome.   It would be my very low tolerance for mean.  

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For me, the actual example wouldn't matter.   Now if I were angry at someone who was rude to the taxi driver, it would NOT be Tall Poppy Syndrome.   It would be my very low tolerance for mean.  

 

Maybe not, because you are not Australian. :lol:

 

On the other hand, you've modified the example I gave.

 

 

Gifted kids was the context in which I heard it applied.  As in, "We don't have gifted education here.   It just isn't done.  Tall Poppies".  

 

Whoever said that was being an excellent example of Tall Poppy Syndrome.

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I don't have cultural baggage with the term as I only know it from discussions of gifted children here and on a Facebook group. "Poppy" has come to be shorthand for "gifted child" in some of my, mostly online, circles, and it does leave a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I think this is because I've heard it used to complain about other people's reactions instead of discussing ways to improve situations. Like, "my four year old poppy screams whenever she is treated like a child! Her Sunday school teacher just doesn't know what to do with poppies!" Then the feedback is mostly, "I know, people are the worst. The don't get how sensitive and mature our kids are."

I may be overly sensitive because I try really hard not to come across that way with my kids and worry that I'll get lumped in with "those parents"

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Maybe not, because you are not Australian. :lol:

 

On the other hand, you've modified the example I gave.

 

 

Whoever said that was being an excellent example of Tall Poppy Syndrome.

The people who have only heard it in context of the gifted said that. You have started a thread on a very culturally specific idea and are now reacting when people of another culture who have only heard of it in a different context aren't talking about it "correctly ".

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From an Australian actress’s explanation in a Vanity Fair interview, it sounds like gifted children being cut down if they outshine their peers do fall under the category of people being persecuted under tall poppy syndrome as well.

 

“Robbie explains in a new Vanity Fair cover interview that Australians have a way of making sure people don’t get too big for their britches:

 

“There’s a thing in Australia called tall-poppy syndrome. Have you heard of it? It’s a pretty prevalent thing — they even teach it in school. Poppies are tall flowers, but they don’t grow taller than the rest of the flowers, so there’s a mentality in Australia where people are really happy for you to do well; you just can’t do better than everyone else or they will cut you down to size.â€â€

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/margot-robbie-australias-outlook-on-success-2016-7

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