On "taking a knee"

[8circles]

I know the reason why Pennsylvania fire chief was against the kneeling... https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/26/pittsburgh-steelers-anthem-mike-tomlin-pennsylvania-fire-chief

 

I think he just resigned.

I guess he was the lone racist in the stands - so glad we found him.

[ktgrok]

My husband, a life-long football fan, is also losing interest specifically because of the research on CTE.

 

FWIW, the large scale protests have increased, not decreased, the amount of respect he has for football players.

I've watched all my life but find myself with less drive to watch due to CTE. But the protest has sort of brought me back. 

[Homebody2]

Actually, if you look at the quote that I was answering you'll see someone denying exactly that. Which is why I posted it.

I never denied that things other than protesting can't effect change or bring people to the cause. My argument is that I think it takes both.

 

I will edit my previous post to be clear

Edited September 27, 2017 by Homebody2

[Pawz4me]

I think that when Colin Kaepernick decided to do this type of silent protest, he initially just sat on the bench during the anthem. But then he got together with one( or more?) Navy Seals and they discussed it with him, saying that kneeling was more respectful than sitting. So, maybe someone can out these traitor Seals for being the culprits that caused so many knickers to be twisted??

 

I think it was a Green Beret he met with before deciding to kneel instead of sit? That's what I read in one article. Still . . a member of the special forces, whichever it was.

[sassenach]

It IS my world and life experience. Am I an example of an exception? What about all the other posters in this thread who are veterans or family of military members - are they exceptions too? How many exceptions does it take to not be an 'exception' any more? It looks to me that the majority here tend to side with "citizens' rights are exactly what the flag is all about" vs. "the flag is about respecting the military."

 

IOW, your point does not get to represent all service members and their families.

My apologies. Sincerely.

 

I think my second post was hastily written and did not express my views as carefully as it should have. I don't have the time or energy to enter into these nuanced debates, so I should just keep myself out of them.

 

You are correct, there are many in the armed forces who do not receive this form of protest as a sign of disrespect. I personally fall on the side of those who do.

 

But to be clear, I don't think anyone should be stopped from protesting this way.

[historically accurate]

I think that when Colin Kaepernick decided to do this type of silent protest, he initially just sat on the bench during the anthem. But then he got together with one( or more?) Navy Seals and they discussed it with him, saying that kneeling was more respectful than sitting. So, maybe someone can out these traitor Seals for being the culprits that caused so many knickers to be twisted??

 

 

I think it was a Green Beret he met with before deciding to kneel instead of sit? That's what I read in one article. Still . . a member of the special forces, whichever it was.

 

 

Here's what I found (article was written a year ago tomorrow); it was a Green Beret.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-nate-boyer-got-colin-kaepernick-to-go-from-sitting-to-kneeling/

[Joker]

I have to say it's been disheartening to see so many on my FB be so loud and offended by NFL players kneeling during the anthem but be so quiet and seemingly unconcerned when someone is killed needlessly by police.

 

They are upset by all the wrong things but at least this weekend has them talking and some things brought into the light again. I'm going to do what I can to keep the things they should be upset about front and center. I'm also going to be searching out ways to get more involved in my own community.

[Guest]

I know the reason why Pennsylvania fire chief was against the kneeling... https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/26/pittsburgh-steelers-anthem-mike-tomlin-pennsylvania-fire-chief

 

I think he just resigned.

That's gross and I'm glad he resigned.

[Corraleno]

Director of Michigan State Police Col. Kriste Kibbey Etue said that the athletes who take a knee are "millionaire ingrates who hate America and disrespect our armed forces and veterans" and "a bunch of rich, entitled, arrogant, ungrateful, anti-American degenerates."

 

An Arkansas firefighter said anyone who kneels "should be shot in the head."

 

Another govt official, now fired: "your dumb (expletive) isn't paid to think about politics... dance monkey dance"

 

THIS is what the backlash is all about: uppity n*ggers not knowing their place. They should be grateful that white people are allowing them to make lots of money "playing a child's game" [a common theme in FB comments]. We are paying them to literally bash their brains in for our entertainment, how dare they spend 2 minutes in silent protest just because they are being targeted, harassed, unlawfully detained and arrested, and murdered in cold blood. How. Dare. They. demand equal protection under the law.

 

 

IT'S SICKENING.

 

  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

Edited September 27, 2017 by Corraleno

[Guest]

Literally everyone in my circle who is annoyed at this just wants the escapism of a good football game to get away from the stress of life and politics. These sentiments might be loud, but you're wrong in ascribing that motive to most of the people complaining.

 

Of course, I won't convince you. You're pretty sure I'm racist too since I don't just agree that protesting is useful, effective, or worthwhile in this way.

[Tanaqui]

Well, it'd be nice if we could all just escape the stress of racial profiling just by turning on the TV.

 

You know, if it's so important that you avoid all this, you could just wait 10 minutes before watching the game. Use that time to finish your seven-layer dip or whatever.

[ktgrok]

Literally everyone in my circle who is annoyed at this just wants the escapism of a good football game to get away from the stress of life and politics.

 

And does the silent kneeling before the game even starts really take away from that? Can they not acknowledge the protest and then still enjoy the game? Are people really so selfish as to say "I get that you feel your lives and the lives of people of color are treated as less than worthy, and you fear dying, but could you shut up about it so I can enjoy the game?" 

 

It's not like they are taking a knee during the game. You still get the entertainment. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Director of Michigan State Police Col. Kriste Kibbey Etue said that the athletes who take a knee are "millionaire ingrates who hate America and disrespect our armed forces and veterans" and "a bunch of rich, entitled, arrogant, ungrateful, anti-American degenerates."

 

An Arkansas firefighter said anyone who kneels "should be shot in the head."

 

Another govt official, now fired: "your dumb (expletive) isn't paid to think about politics... dance monkey dance"

 

THIS is what the backlash is all about: uppity n*ggers not knowing their place. They should be grateful that white people are allowing them to make lots of money "playing a child's game" [a common theme in FB comments]. We are paying them to literally bash their brains in for our entertainment, how dare they spend 2 minutes in silent protest just because they are being targeted, harassed, unlawfully detained and arrested, and murdered in cold blood. How. Dare. They. demand equal protection under the law.

 

 

IT'S SICKENING.

 

  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

 

I agree with you that these examples are disgusting.

But I don't see them here, not from anyone.

 

[Guest]

Well, it'd be nice if we could all just escape the stress of racial profiling just by turning on the TV.

 

You know, if it's so important that you avoid all this, you could just wait 10 minutes before watching the game. Use that time to finish your seven-layer dip or whatever.

Maybe some will. A whole chunk of others are cancelling their packages and season tickets and done. I'm actually surprised, but this is apparently a straw too far on a tired camel. And yeah, the players could feel the same way on their specific topic too.

 

Follow the money to find out who wins, I suppose.

[goldberry]

Follow the money to find out who wins, I suppose.

 

This is true, but sad.  The money is always more important than right or wrong.

[Tanaqui]

The trouble with "follow the money" is that there's a lot of reason for people to cancel their season tickets, etc. No way of knowing if the issue is that they switched their allegiance to soccer, or that they don't have money for splurges, or that they're concerned about the prevalence of CTE in the NFL or what.

[Barb_]

I agree with you that these examples are disgusting.

But I don't see them here, not from anyone.

 

I don't see them here either. But these examples go to the heart of the reason the protests are valid. The fact that these examples are happening at the highest levels of public service is a convincing reason to drag the ugliness out into the spotlight. That's what this is serving to do. That's what awareness is.

[goldberry]

Everyone that says politics shouldn't be part of sports, or interfere with sports, or we just want sports... if that were true, why not be opposed to the playing of the anthem in the first place?  

 

The kneeling players did not introduce the politics. The politics were introduced by teams playing the anthem in the first place. So I'm puzzled by that argument.  

[8circles]

Why is it that there's so much concern about people cancelling their NFL season tickets (should we start another football thread discussing how tragic this is?) and not so much about racially motivated police brutality - in a thread about a protest against racially motivated police brutality?

 

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[goldberry]

I agree with you that these examples are disgusting.

But I don't see them here, not from anyone.

 

 

You're right, Carol.  But I think people should be aware *that is where this ends up*.  There is something about lighting a fire of nationalism that can bring out the worst in people.   The racism just under the surface comes bubbling out, because it now can be lumped in with a noble sounding cause.  It is so dangerous.  

 

You end up with "fine people just defending statues" but who somehow end up marching with Nazi-flag bearers, but still saying, "no I'm not like them".  

[Corraleno]

For the record, NFL viewing stats for this last weekend were 3% higher than last year, and ESPN reported a 71% jump in viewers for the Monday night game between the Cowboys and Cardinals. On the other hand, NASCAR viewership is down 14% compared to last year, and 28% compared to the year before. Shall we attribute that (much larger) decline to all the black drivers that are protesting? 

Cable/satellite subscriptions overall are down 5%, and viewing stats don't count streaming services, so that will explain some of the difference. There are also many people boycotting the NFL in support of Kaepernick, and others turned off by the issues with CTE. 

 

[Paige]

Why is it that there's so much concern about people cancelling their NFL season tickets (should we start another football thread discussing how tragic this is?) and not so much about racially motivated police brutality - in a thread about a protest against racially motivated police brutality?

 

Things that make you go hmmmm.

 

I feel that the protests aren't just for racially motivated police violence but for all people who interact with the police. Violence, complacency, and feelings of power spread- as we saw with the Australian woman, nobody is really safe. They are protesting in defense of my rights too. Black lives may be more vulnerable to police violence, but all lives are at risk if we give up anyone's rights to protest, to be presumed innocent, and to due process. I had one bad experience with a police officer and that experience makes me nervous whenever I see any officer. I can't imagine what it must be like for people who have had multiple negative experiences. I also have family members who are in law enforcement and I know most are good, but that doesn't stop me from feeling nervous. 

 

As for the NFL and it's future...I would not be sad to see it go. I think the risk of CTE is too high for me to enjoy the game. I can't watch. To be fair, I was never a big fan in the first place, but now instead of just caring little, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't enjoy boxing or watching people get hurt on America's Funniest Videos either. 

[Corraleno]

Everyone that says politics shouldn't be part of sports, or interfere with sports, or we just want sports... if that were true, why not be opposed to the playing of the anthem in the first place?  

 

The kneeling players did not introduce the politics. The politics were introduced by teams playing the anthem in the first place. So I'm puzzled by that argument.  

 

Not to mention all the military-related activities and ceremonies the DOD paid millions of dollars to inject into the game. 

[Lady Florida.]

 

Cable/satellite subscriptions overall are down 5%, and viewing stats don't count streaming services, so that will explain some of the difference. There are also many people boycotting the NFL in support of Kaepernick, and others turned off by the issues with CTE. 

 

 

 

With sports franchises that have exclusive contracts with cable companies and more people cutting the cord, viewership will naturally be down. I've read that not only the NFL but other sports will probably not sign exclusive contracts once their current contracts run out. How people watch tv is changing and in order to keep viewers sports will have to acknowledge that streaming is becoming normal. If they stick with cable they'll continue to lose viewers.

[elegantlion]

I had an interesting experience tonight, we watched the movie Gladiator as part of our departmental activities. It's been scheduled for weeks. It was eerily relevant to these current events. Might be a good time for a rewatch. 

 

Are these footballers kneeling out of disrespect... or is it deepest respect for the ideals in which we are supposed to value, the values we strive to attain in this country. To bring light to the fact we are sorely missing the mark on those ideals is not disrespect. 

 

If we were designed as a country to blindly follow every command and ignore those indiscretions, then we'd still be a British colony. 

[Pawz4me]

The trouble with "follow the money" is that there's a lot of reason for people to cancel their season tickets, etc. No way of knowing if the issue is that they switched their allegiance to soccer, or that they don't have money for splurges, or that they're concerned about the prevalence of CTE in the NFL or what.

 

I agree that there's no way of knowing. I don't know if people claiming there is is funny or pathetic. Or "just" a lack of critical thinking skills or deperately wanting to mold something to support their stance.

 

My DS21 and several of his friends (all of whom are much more soccer fans than football fans) recently purchased the NFL Sunday ticket thingie. Did they do it to support the protesters, or because of the increased attention? Heck no. They did it because they're sports fans and got a great deal on it. It's really that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

For the record, NFL viewing stats for this last weekend were 3% higher than last year, and ESPN reported a 71% jump in viewers for the Monday night game between the Cowboys and Cardinals. On the other hand, NASCAR viewership is down 14% compared to last year, and 28% compared to the year before. Shall we attribute that (much larger) decline to all the black drivers that are protesting? 

 

Cable/satellite subscriptions overall are down 5%, and viewing stats don't count streaming services, so that will explain some of the difference. There are also many people boycotting the NFL in support of Kaepernick, and others turned off by the issues with CTE. 

 

 

 

 

With sports franchises that have exclusive contracts with cable companies and more people cutting the cord, viewership will naturally be down. I've read that not only the NFL but other sports will probably not sign exclusive contracts once their current contracts run out. How people watch tv is changing and in order to keep viewers sports will have to acknowledge that streaming is becoming normal. If they stick with cable they'll continue to lose viewers.

 

Yep,

[Guest]

I did actually address the multiple reasons many pages ago, and my follow the money comment wasn't about the subscribers, but who was pushing these viewpoints from a media/social perspective and why. People are benefitting from all the foment and drama, on both sides of the issue and for different reasons, and I think that is the end game here. I probably should have added more to that statement but it was clear in my own head :p

 

You'd be surprised how many people don't really care about CTS at the pro level. I think it's really atfecting the feed into football at younger ages, but the effects of that numbers shift haven't hit the league yet and won't for another half decade at least. None of the fans in my life adjusted their watching habits over the head injury issue at all, though a few were very disappointed and saddened by Seau's suicide. He's a bit of a football hero to many of them.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Barb_]

People are benefitting from all the foment and drama, on both sides of the issue and for different reasons, and I think that is the end game here. .

You think that the entire protest was done to stir up drama for personal aggrandizement? Is this a common talking point? If so, that would explain a lot of my dh's Facebook feed.

[Barb_]

Also this wouldn't have blown up the way it did if not for a certain person's big mouth. The second part of the protest was more about solidarity and support and would never have happened if their teammates weren't attacked.

[Guest]

Also this wouldn't have blown up the way it did if not for a certain person's big mouth. The second part of the protest was more about solidarity and support and would never have happened if their teammates weren't attacked.

I do think that's part of it. And I think the decisions by the league in response to this, as well as a few politicians wading into it, are revealing.

 

The response by players and fans going both ways? Genuine. The way it is metastasizing and being subtly twisted for various purposes? Sketchy. We will see what happens in the coming weeks.

[ktgrok]

I am on my phone and don't have the link for this but I'm reading that a green beret suggested the kneeling because at a military funeral the folded flag is given to the deceased's family by a soldier on one knee- that it is a posture showing respect but also sadness and mourning. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

[AmandaVT]

I am on my phone and don't have the link for this but I'm reading that a green beret suggested the kneeling because at a military funeral the folded flag is given to the deceased's family by a soldier on one knee- that it is a posture showing respect but also sadness and mourning. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

 

Yup - you are correct. I posted the NY times link upthread, but I'll add it here too because I think it's important for people to read it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?_r=0

 

"After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy."

[Pawz4me]

I am on my phone and don't have the link for this but I'm reading that a green beret suggested the kneeling because at a military funeral the folded flag is given to the deceased's family by a soldier on one knee- that it is a posture showing respect but also sadness and mourning. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

 

It's been widely reported that it was a former player who was also a Green Beret who suggested kneeling because it's such a common gesture of respect/paying tribute.

 

Personally, I'll never be able to wrap my mind around the accusation that kneeling is disrespectful. In the Christian denominations I was raised in when one goes to the altar one kneels. Historically, kneeling has been the thing to do to show respect for rulers. Kneeling has throughout history been pretty much the ultimate sign of respect.

[Barb_]

Here is a Facebook post that the Green Beret Michael Sands posted yesterday in response to the controversy:

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10209994259472453&id=1214593484

[maize]

It's been widely reported that it was a former player who was also a Green Beret who suggested kneeling because it's such a common gesture of respect/paying tribute.

 

Personally, I'll never be able to wrap my mind around the accusation that kneeling is disrespectful. In the Christian denominations I was raised in when one goes to the altar one kneels. Historically, kneeling has been the thing to do to show respect for rulers. Kneeling has throughout history been pretty much the ultimate sign of respect.

Agreed. Kneeling is a symbolic act of humility and respect. It can also symbolize grief (as in this image:

https://cdnhistorybits.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/canada-korean-war-pictures/attachment/10/ )

Edited September 27, 2017 by maize

[Lanny]

As I grew older, I changed political parties and I became more conservative. It is probably normal, for people to become more conservative, as they age. My views about the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem are the *same* ones I had when I was a teenager.  The players taking a Knee are extremely influential. There are many better ways for them to make their views known and try to change things, including that they might run for a political office. At the local level, state level or national level. There are a lot of problems in the USA. NFL players taking a knee, during the National Anthem is not the way to solve them, IMO.  That results in a large part of the audience losing interest in NFL, because the protesting players do not share their respect for the Flag and the National Anthem. 

 

I certainly agree that there are major racial issues in the USA and discrimination against Blacks there.  We live in an area of Colombia that is predominately Black. When friends go to the USA, I hope that they will not be victims of discrimination. 

[historically accurate]

As I grew older, I changed political parties and I became more conservative. It is probably normal, for people to become more conservative, as they age. My views about the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem are the *same* ones I had when I was a teenager.  The players taking a Knee are extremely influential. There are many better ways for them to make their views known and try to change things, including that they might run for a political office. At the local level, state level or national level. There are a lot of problems in the USA. NFL players taking a knee, during the National Anthem is not the way to solve them, IMO.  That results in a large part of the audience losing interest in NFL, because the protesting players do not share their respect for the Flag and the National Anthem. 

 

I certainly agree that there are major racial issues in the USA and discrimination against Blacks there.  We live in an area of Colombia that is predominately Black. When friends go to the USA, I hope that they will not be victims of discrimination. 

 

I'd say most people would have a hard time voting for a former football player, since it's not seen as a thinking man's game. They might run, but I'd guess most wouldn't get elected. They're usually seen as dumb jocks, and who'd want a dumb jock as a senator or whatever. Secondly, a current football player doesn't have time to serve in an elected office; he has a job already.

 

As expressed earlier in the thread, Kaepernick has donated much time and loads of money to foundations and charities to help his cause. The kneeling is just one outward sign to raise awareness; I'm sure he knows this won't solve the problem (that's why he's putting his money where is mouth knee is). 

[Pawz4me]

As I grew older, I changed political parties and I became more conservative. It is probably normal, for people to become more conservative, as they age. My views about the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem are the *same* ones I had when I was a teenager.  The players taking a Knee are extremely influential. There are many better ways for them to make their views known and try to change things, including that they might run for a political office. At the local level, state level or national level. There are a lot of problems in the USA. NFL players taking a knee, during the National Anthem is not the way to solve them, IMO.  That results in a large part of the audience losing interest in NFL, because the protesting players do not share their respect for the Flag and the National Anthem. 

 

I certainly agree that there are major racial issues in the USA and discrimination against Blacks there.  We live in an area of Colombia that is predominately Black. When friends go to the USA, I hope that they will not be victims of discrimination. 

 

I don't know if it's normal or not. Both DH and I have become much more liberal as we've aged.

[catz]

I'd say most people would have a hard time voting for a former football player, since it's not seen as a thinking man's game. They might run, but I'd guess most wouldn't get elected. They're usually seen as dumb jocks, and who'd want a dumb jock as a senator or whatever. Secondly, a current football player doesn't have time to serve in an elected office; he has a job already.

 

As expressed earlier in the thread, Kaepernick has donated much time and loads of money to foundations and charities to help his cause. The kneeling is just one outward sign to raise awareness; I'm sure he knows this won't solve the problem (that's why he's putting his money where is mouth knee is). 

 

Well, I thought a reality TV star wouldn't get elected and I live in a state that had a pro wrestler as a governor, so you never know.  :lol:

 

I've also become more liberal as I aged.  My father did as well and he died at 71. 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Lady Florida.]

As I grew older, I changed political parties and I became more conservative. It is probably normal, for people to become more conservative, as they age. 

 

 

I don't know if it's normal or not. Both DH and I have become much more liberal as we've aged.

 

I've always been liberal and have only grown more liberal as I age.

 

In my younger years I did periodically re-examine my political beliefs in case anything changed but it never did. I no longer re-examine and haven't for years. I know where I stand is where I'm going to stand for the rest of my days.

[Barb_]

As I grew older, I changed political parties and I became more conservative. It is probably normal, for people to become more conservative, as they age. My views about the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem are the *same* ones I had when I was a teenager. The players taking a Knee are extremely influential. There are many better ways for them to make their views known and try to change things, including that they might run for a political office. At the local level, state level or national level. There are a lot of problems in the USA. NFL players taking a knee, during the National Anthem is not the way to solve them, IMO. That results in a large part of the audience losing interest in NFL, because the protesting players do not share their respect for the Flag and the National Anthem.

 

I certainly agree that there are major racial issues in the USA and discrimination against Blacks there. We live in an area of Colombia that is predominately Black. When friends go to the USA, I hope that they will not be victims of discrimination.

Lanny, can you respond to the idea that kneeling is showing respect and deference while expressing sadness and grief simultaneously? Do you feel it isn't possible to do both? Is there only one way to show respect for the flag and for our country?

 

ETA: I just reread and realize my tone may have come off as challenging. I didn't mean it that way. I'm truly baffled by those who see kneeling as disrespectful and am interested in hearing why?

Edited September 27, 2017 by Barb_

[Pawz4me]

I'd say most people would have a hard time voting for a former football player, since it's not seen as a thinking man's game. 

 

There have been quite a few former professional athletes who've been elected. One of our representatives from NC, Heath Shuler, is a former NFL quarterback.

[Xuzi]

All the different colors of ribbons people wear or stick to their cars don't do anything to cure cancer or prevent suicide or treat diabetes either, but they do draw attention to the issues they're representing. People won't put time and energy into solving a problem they're unaware exists, or don't see as being *that* big of a problem.

 

Raising awareness, triggering conversations (which this protest has very effectively done) can recruit more people to the cause, because more people will be aware of it, and some portion of those people will start to take action.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Xuzi

[Guest]

The voting patterns suggest people become more conservative when they marry and age, if you look at it by age group and track over the previous decades. Especially fiscally, they tend to become more conservative as they age and their earning power increases. Socially, I think it varies. I know people who have gone both ways but single adults and especially older single women tend to be further to the left in the statistical groups, at least as of a few years ago.

 

I admit I stopped caring awhile back. Which is sad, because I was a major political junkie for much of my life. Now I just want to be left alone to do my own thing and manage my own family. There isn't enough mental energy left in me for all the drama of trying to wade into the public sphere and change things that never change, except to degrade. Blah. I'm probably a little more conservative than I used to be (and I'm a lifelong conservative) but I'm more private about it in this age.

 

I'll vote and donate, but arguing and trying to change minds is for the birds.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Tanaqui]

It is probably normal for people to become more conservative as they age.

 

While it's true that older generations tend to be more conservative, that doesn't mean their opinions have changed over time.

[Barb_]

People tend to vote their self-interests and I think that explains age-wise general voting patterns.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Barb_

[DawnM]

I don't know if it's normal or not. Both DH and I have become much more liberal as we've aged.

 

I have become far more liberal.  DH not as much, but he thinks all politicians are nuts.  

 

It seems the political spectrum has become far more polarized and it isn't nearly as easy to sit in the middle and swing a little left on one issue and a little right on the other.

 

Sigh. 

[8circles]

Both DH & I have become more liberal, to different degrees.

 

MIL has become more liberal.

 

Siblings/IL have become more liberal.

[Xuzi]

I've been voting since 2000, and this last election is the first time I've ended up not voting for the presidential candidate who won.

[Lady Florida.]

While it's true that older generations tend to be more conservative, that doesn't mean their opinions have changed over time.

 

Interesting article. The quote from it below rings true for me. My FOO were New Deal Democrats and Kennedy Catholics and that's how I was raised. As I said upthread I would periodically examine my beliefs but always came back to liberal Democrat. I do think my beliefs were set early in life by the family atmosphere of social justice and faith + works.

 

 

 But academic research indicates not only that generations have distinct political identities, but that most people’s basic  outlooks and orientations are set fairly early on in life. As one famous longitudinal study of Bennington College women put it, “through late childhood and early adolescence, attitudes are relatively malleable…with the potential for dramatic change possible in late adolescence or early adulthood. ut greater stability sets in at some early point, and attitudes tend to be increasingly persistent as people age.â€