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Help with coming up with retorts ...


school17777
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Youngest dd, 4th grade, full-time b&m student now, told me today that a boy has been bullying her since the school year started. She said he makes up songs about her and sings them to the other kids in the class saying that she doesn't have friends, still plays with dolls, etc... She and another student told the teacher today, but the teacher said for them (he was including another girl in the songs) to ignore him, which isn't working. I am will probably be calling the teacher soon to discuss this, but I want to give my dd some comebacks so she can stand up for herself. Today, another boy in the class asked the song boy to sing the song about dd. I asked dd what she said when the boy asked that and she said nothing. I am terrible about coming up with retorts for her. Dd feels like if she says anything, that will make it worse, and she doesn't feel like the teacher will believe her anyway.

 

I will deal with the teacher part on my end, if I need to. What I need help with right now is equipping dd what to say to the kid right then when he starts to sing a song about her or says something not nice to her.

 

And of course, everytime I start a post, I have to leave. I won't be back until tonight, so I am not ignoring what anyone has to say.

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Retorts will not help. The teacher needs to address this directly. I would contact the teacher immediately and follow up with the principal if the issue is not resolved. 

Be glad your DD tells you! I did not find out about the horrible bullying my DD went through until I had pulled her out of school and she felt safe to tell me what went on for an entire year. I would have been at the school the very next day had she told me of even one incident.

Edited by regentrude
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Is it not okay for fourth graders to play with dolls? Anyway I know that doesn't matter it's about the bully and his mess. He is doing it to upset her. So if there's any way she can ignore him and redirect herself without appearing upset, it may stop. But teacher needs to do her job too. I don't think there's any way a Child can retort her way out of it: if she had that personality she would have already done it. (FYI none of my kids have that personality either).

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It will do wonders for your child to see you deal with tomorrow. Not one day more. I would not let her go to class. Rather, at the first bell, she would be sitting in the waiting room of the principal's office while I was IN the principal's office. She wouldn't attend that school again until I was satisfied the adults would keep her safe.

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If this is bullying:

 

Leave class--ideally along with the other girl in the songs. Go to principal's office. Tell secretary she needs to see principal immediately and to have her mom be called immediately.  Tell Principal she is is being bullied. That teacher refuses to stop it.

 

You tell principal that you plan to seek legal help if principal will not do something to step up and stop the problem.

 

Remotely possible is that the boy has a crush on her.

 

If that is so, she (or she and the other girl) could make up a song about him.

 

 

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Looks like the little snots from my classes grew up and reproduced. From experience, retorts won't help. Ignoring won't help. Honestly, the teacher, his parents, the principal, and the Pope himself coming down hard on him might not end the behavior completely. The kid is who he is.

 

He may not change (Facebook accounts 20 years later prove this), but everyone, from parents to classmates to the whole dang school, standing up for your daughter will make a huge difference to HER. I agree, talk to the teacher tomorrow.

 

ETA: I too have a child that would never tell me what was going on. And I have a child that wouldn't tell me, but the school would when he broke the kid's nose. Good for her for being proactive in letting you know! She's done the hard part!

Edited by BarbecueMom
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If this is bullying:

 

Leave class--ideally along with the other girl in the songs. Go to principal's office. Tell secretary she needs to see principal immediately and to have her mom be called immediately.  Tell Principal she is is being bullied. That teacher refuses to stop it.

 

You tell principal that you plan to seek legal help if principal will not do something to step up and stop the problem.

 

Remotely possible is that the boy has a crush on her.

 

If that is so, she (or she and the other girl) could make up a song about him.

 

I was also thinking possible crush.  But since he is singing the songs to other kids, that is mean.  It's not like mild teasing of the girl herself.

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Add me to the chorus saying retorts won't help.  I've had kids like this in my classes before.  "I" need to stop it (and I do - quickly).  The teacher needs to learn how if she doesn't know.  It can be done - or the lad needs to be the one leaving the class and getting educated elsewhere, not your daughter or the other gal (whatever the school does with those who can't behave in a classroom - often there is a program if it gets that far).

 

Talk to the teacher tomorrow - then escalate it if need be.  Consider it a service to society if you can get that young lad to learn he needs to act appropriately in public.

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I agree you should go to the teacher, but you asked about retorts as well. Angry our sarcastic retorts feed the teasing/bullying. As a kid, though, I found that calm and matter of fact responses deflated the teasing. When a boy on the bus called me a b-(out of the blue, trying to get a rise), I said, "I wonder why that is a mean thing to say to some one. The only bad thing I've ever heard about female dogs is that they will attack if you mess with their puppies. I'd get mean, to, if you hurt someone I loved, so I guess I don't care if you call me that." The next day was me saying, "yeah, sometimes I am as stubborn as a donkey," and after that he never spoke to me again. Maybe your daughter could pull off saying things like, "yeah, I do play with dolls sometimes. I didn't know that's worth making a song about." Or "that's an interesting song, but it leaves out some things. Could you include a line about how my favorite color is green and I like chocolate chip cookies?"

I felt really empowered when I shut a bully up without my mom ever knowing, but your daughter is asking you for help, probably because it's gone too far. Maybe go dual pronged, talking to the teacher while strategizing with your daughter

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I agree you should go to the teacher, but you asked about retorts as well. Angry our sarcastic retorts feed the teasing/bullying. As a kid, though, I found that calm and matter of fact responses deflated the teasing. When a boy on the bus called me a b-(out of the blue, trying to get a rise), I said, "I wonder why that is a mean thing to say to some one. The only bad thing I've ever heard about female dogs is that they will attack if you mess with their puppies. I'd get mean, to, if you hurt someone I loved, so I guess I don't care if you call me that." The next day was me saying, "yeah, sometimes I am as stubborn as a donkey," and after that he never spoke to me again. Maybe your daughter could pull off saying things like, "yeah, I do play with dolls sometimes. I didn't know that's worth making a song about." Or "that's an interesting song, but it leaves out some things. Could you include a line about how my favorite color is green and I like chocolate chip cookies?"

I felt really empowered when I shut a bully up without my mom ever knowing, but your daughter is asking you for help, probably because it's gone too far. Maybe go dual pronged, talking to the teacher while strategizing with your daughter

 

 

Those coud work!!!  Or at least could give OP's dd a sense of greater empowerment.

 

xahm, you seem really good at this sort of thing!   Like your idea for what to say if my ds were asked to help exhange students for whom that might be a taboo...  seemed spot on!

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Those coud work!!! Or at least could give OP's dd a sense of greater empowerment.

 

xahm, you seem really good at this sort of thing! Like your idea for what to say if my ds were asked to help exhange students for whom that might be a taboo... seemed spot on!

Aww, thanks.

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Add me to the chorus saying retorts won't help.  I've had kids like this in my classes before.  "I" need to stop it (and I do - quickly).  The teacher needs to learn how if she doesn't know.  It can be done - or the lad needs to be the one leaving the class and getting educated elsewhere, not your daughter or the other gal (whatever the school does with those who can't behave in a classroom - often there is a program if it gets that far).

 

Talk to the teacher tomorrow - then escalate it if need be.  Consider it a service to society if you can get that young lad to learn he needs to act appropriately in public.

 

 

How do you stop such a situation, and what would your approach have been if the girl(s) had come to you?  Both in terms of what you would say to the boy, and also to the girls or others?

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Teachers should definitely get involved in a bullying situation. But, for various reasons, they don't always. My oldest went to a small school the year he was ten and the teachers didn't stop a boy from intimidating other kids with a stick on the playground. I didn't find out about it until afterwards, when my ds told me what he had done. He thought I would be mad, but I was so proud!  Ds had taken the stick from the kid, who was holding it in a suggestive position and saying what he was going to do to ds with it, and broke it in half and threw it away. (I suspect there may have been some waving and yelling included at this point, which is probably why ds thought I would be mad.) The kid never bothered him again.  I was shocked that my ten year old had to be subjected to this (he said it had happened for regularly for a number of days), but I was more shocked that the teachers didn't stop it even when kids asked for help.

 

So, I agree with the PP who suggested a way for your dd to stand up for herself. In the end, adults won't always be around to stop this nonsense, so it's a good idea for your dd to try shutting it down if possible. Plus, she'll feel empowered, instead of helpless, if she can do something about it on her own. No harm in trying, anyway!

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How do you stop such a situation, and what would your approach have been if the girl(s) had come to you?  Both in terms of what you would say to the boy, and also to the girls or others?

 

By going mama teacher on them... My normal friendly, business-like manner stops, and quickly changes to an angry, "Did you really just say what I thought I heard you say?" manner.  "Why on earth would you do/say/whatever something like that?  Do you think you're something extra special to where you can put other people down (or call them names or mock them or whatever) and someone couldn't do the same to you?  I sure doubt it, but the rest of us wouldn't think of doing that to someone.  Regardless, that sort of stuff DOES NOT HAPPEN IN MY CLASSROOM and for whatever reason if you can't act the way you should - this goes for anyone - then you'll be out the door to the office explaining to them why you can't behave properly if I hear it again.  Understood?"

 

This draws the whole class in... and I've never had it fail (except when kids are on drugs - in which case - they go to the office and the office deals with them).

 

That is all if I heard them do something.  If the student came to me and told me about it I'd have a very similar talk, but in private with the student.  I only call them out in front of the class if they are loudly doing "whatever" in front of the class.  

 

I don't have behavior problems in my classroom - not more than once from the same student anyway.

 

My normal manner is pretty darn friendly, but in control.  But these are things that cross the line and I establish that without hesitation.  Kids like pretty darn friendly, but in control, so those who mess it up usually hear about it from their peers too - making them be the one who looks bad, not the person they made fun of.

 

I also often get apologies from these students... they usually don't understand that not everyone agrees with them.  They learn pretty quickly with me.

 

And once "fixed," I drop it.  Life goes back to being "good."  If they cross the line again though, I follow through and admin backs me up nicely.  Word gets around.

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Thanks for all the responses. Due to your encouragement, I went ahead and emailed the teacher asking to hear her side of what happened. According to the student handbook, what the boy did today does meet the definition of bullying and dd's response to go tell the teacher is exactly what the handbook states the student is supposed to do. The handbook does not mention anything about what happens when bullying is reported. I do not think the response should be that the person who is being bullied is to ignore it.

 

Dd thinks that if she says or does anything in response to this boy, that he will use it against her and make things worse, so she doesn't want to say anything to him.

 

And the baby doll is a lil, lil sis doll that dd just bought with her b-day money. It is like a Shopkins type thing that comes in a ball that you can hang on your bookbag, which is where her's is. (Dd does still play dolls, but she says a lot of kids her age are done playing toys.)

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I so wish I could find the article and video I once saw about a teacher who bully proofed his class....1sr grade I think. He started teaching them to give non reactive answers like "and so...." Or "and what else" or "yep" and then pairing that with a posture of crossing their arms and rocking back and forth on their heels.....and getting more and more of the kids to join them in this so that the bully doesn't get the reaction they want and they know other kids are all standing United against that behavior.

 

The article and video were so much better than my explanation.

 

Teachers should do what they can but adults can not always be there in every situation.

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I so wish I could find the article and video I once saw about a teacher who bully proofed his class....1sr grade I think. He started teaching them to give non reactive answers like "and so...." Or "and what else" or "yep" and then pairing that with a posture of crossing their arms and rocking back and forth on their heels.....and getting more and more of the kids to join them in this so that the bully doesn't get the reaction they want and they know other kids are all standing United against that behavior.

 

The article and video were so much better than my explanation.

 

Teachers should do what they can but adults can not always be there in every situation.

If you find it, please post it! That gives me an idea to look on Youtube for ideas.

 

I do feel for the teachers since they probably don't see it happen, then they have to figure out what happened. And, they are probably preoccupied with trying to get through their lesson plan. I do feel for them.

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I haven’t read all the posts. (We need an acronym for this.)

 

Retorts don’t helo. You need to get adult help on this. I know this personally from my own perspective and as a mother from my son’s.

 

Here is my additional non-pragmatic self speaking: in my life, focusing on retorts makes me responsible for being bullied. And it hardens me.

 

What is going on is wrong. Call it for what it is, and let your children be not responsible for dealing with it.

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Thanks for all the responses. Due to your encouragement, I went ahead and emailed the teacher asking to hear her side of what happened. According to the student handbook, what the boy did today does meet the definition of bullying and dd's response to go tell the teacher is exactly what the handbook states the student is supposed to do. The handbook does not mention anything about what happens when bullying is reported. I do not think the response should be that the person who is being bullied is to ignore it.

 

Dd thinks that if she says or does anything in response to this boy, that he will use it against her and make things worse, so she doesn't want to say anything to him.

 

And the baby doll is a lil, lil sis doll that dd just bought with her b-day money. It is like a Shopkins type thing that comes in a ball that you can hang on your bookbag, which is where her's is. (Dd does still play dolls, but she says a lot of kids her age are done playing toys.)

You calet her know my adult guys still play with toys at times.  Tons of high schoolers do too.  Legos and little "battles" still went ofor a long time at my house.  I see nothing wrong with it.

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I'm 50 and I play with dolls.  :P  I still had a box of baby dolls when I was your daughter's age and I played with them every day.

 

My 6th graders play toys - one of them plays all the time with dolls, costumes, building sets, etc.  Sometimes she brings toys to school.

 

Anyway, that is not the point.  I hope the teacher fixes this so it ends now.

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The teacher got back to me this morning and said that we have different versions about what happened and if she had heard the version I had, the situation would have been handled much differently. She is going to talk to the kids today to sort this out. When dd woke up, I asked her exactly what she told the teacher, and it was different (not a lie different, just minimal details), so I can totally see why the teacher told her to ignore the boy and nothing happened beyond that. I can also understand dd's pov of just providing minimal details, unless asked the right questions, or feeling comfortable enough to tell everything.

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