Not Helping with money for college kids- are we the only ones?

[RootAnn]

DH went the military route and I went on merit scholarships with working to fill the gaps. Before this board opened my eyes, I thought the kids could all do something similar (merit + work + college savings plans we've contributed (& Christmas/ birthday money) to since birth). I even told DH the kids were on their own other than the money we've already saved for them. He's never committed to that. I didn't want them to think they could just feel entitled to go to anywhere and we'd pick up the tab for their partying. (Many kids in our town do this - with $70,000 in debt for the parents per kid. These are kids who just assume they will get a car when they turn 16 and another one when they crash the first one.) My kids are obviously not being raised to be entitled rich kids, so of course they won't believe we'd foot the $$$$ bill/loans for just anywhere.

 

Dd#1 is going for merit money and Dd#2 will likely live at home and go local (state college) to save $ if they have a major and classes she can stomach.

 

I probably wouldn't have realized how out of touch my understanding of college costs were until next year. With help of this board, I'm better equipped for Dd#1's college apps next year. (Yipes! Next year already!)

Edited September 23, 2017 by RootAnn

[Hoggirl]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I'm not sure why one poster found it annoying. It has provided an enlightening discussion.

 

I cannot adequately articulate the admiration I feel for those of you who did this on your own, even many years ago when it was "easier" (though certainly not easy). My hat is off to you who persevered on your own. Your tenacity is inspiring. The varied stories have certainly made me more appreciative of my college education being fully funded by my parents.

[regentrude]

The varied stories have certainly made me more appreciative of my college education being fully funded by my parents.

 

And me for having grown up in a country that, despite all its horrific shortcomings, made education a priority and offered free university education to qualified students.

[EKS]

I do not understand the rationale behind being able to assist but refusing to do so. 

 

This.  We are able and so we do.  Our kids know that they are expected to support themselves after college graduation (or thereabouts).

[DawnM]

I would never judge parents' decisions about this, but I'm so old that when I went to college it was affordable and everyone went. (Well, ykwim.) My parents paid for me and to my knowledge, all my friends' parents paid their way too. 

 

Today college tuition costs so much more, that I can see how it would be hard for parents to pick up the entire check for that, especially if they have many children. There are many college options and I know if ours didn't get the scholarships they got, we'd all be working hard to get them through with as little debt as possible. 

 

And I don't mean to overlook the jobs that don't require college degrees. Some folks do fine w/ no degree, associates, trade school, apprenticeships, etc. 

 

#PersonalDecision

#NoJudgment

 

My parents paid all of my undergraduate degree.  My husband's parents paid $0 (but they paid for his sister's......don't get me started!)

 

But we both made it.  

 

It IS harder today, but some are still doing it.

 

I have gone back to work, partly to pay for my kids' colleges.  But it still may be hard.

[goldberry]

The only thing I have to contribute is that anyone making a decision based on their own experience which may have been years ago, should at a minimum research exactly what the costs and consequences are right now.  Things have changed so much since many of us were college aged, not just the cost of college but the ratios of college costs to working income (meaning how much you have to work to cover costs).  Changed SO MUCH.  I'm not going to judge anyone, but I hope everyone does their research on this subject before deciding on principle alone.

[Lori D.]

The only thing I have to contribute is that anyone making a decision based on their own experience which may have been years ago, should at a minimum research exactly what the costs and consequences are right now.  Things have changed so much since many of us were college aged, not just the cost of college but the ratios of college costs to working income (meaning how much you have to work to cover costs).  Changed SO MUCH.  I'm not going to judge anyone, but I hope everyone does their research on this subject before deciding on principle alone.

 

This is exactly what we discovered.

 

college cost changes:

Between the present-day time of DSs and the time of me putting myself through college while living on my own and working part time, wages have doubled ($4.5/hour for me, $9/hour for DSs), but the local state university tuition has increased over ten-fold ($900/year on average for me, now the same school is $11,800/year).

 

college financial aid changes:

Meanwhile, the percent of that tuition that is covered by merit- and need-based aid awarded by the school has gone down, as have the overall number of scholarships. That makes it more difficult for a student trying to self-fund college to cover all the costs. Loans are a possibility, but that comes at the cost of high impact on other life choices in the first 5-10 years after college. (side note: This is where having an experienced parent helping with research on financial aid and alternatives/out of the box ways of funding college can be very helpful.)

 

job market changes:

The job market itself has also dramatically changed. So many more entry-level jobs require a Bachelor's degree of some kind. And many professional jobs that used to only require a Bachelor's now require an advanced degree. All of which makes it harder to for a student all on their own to get the degree(s) needed for landing a job that makes a livable wage.

 

overall socio-economic changes:

The economic dynamics of our country have shifted over the past several decades as well, with the divide between rich and poor increasing, and much of the middle class sliding closer to the poor end these days, making it harder to pay for the higher education without help of some kind.

 

 

I also believe that it's important to make these kinds of "baton-passing" decisions based on each individual child. Some of us have unexpectedly found we are in the situation of having a child who has extra need of support (due to innate level of academic ability (or lack thereof), LDs, health issues, mental health, fragile temperament, etc.) -- which has required a little longer of running alongside the bike when the training wheels come off, in order for the child to succeed and launch.

 

And don't forget how circumstances can overnight change our best-laid plans for our high school/college students, as many WTM boardies have shared -- a crippling car accident, a tick bite and Lyme disease, mental health crisis, etc.

 

It really is a whole new world compared to when many of us were fresh out of high school and starting college, and really does need to be researched and decided upon in a student-by-student fashion.

 

BEST of luck to all as you plan and work towards successfully launching of each of your uniquely individual children! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Lori D.

[-M-]

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Edited September 24, 2017 by Melissa M

[katilac]

 Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay.  I am wondering how that is.  Are the "consequences" really all that different?

 

No, I don't think the consequences to the student are all that different, but if you can't pay, you can't pay. 

 

I think the consequences to the relationship might be different between can't pay vs won't pay. My parents were not able to help enough to keep me from working too many hours, but they helped as they could, and that help made the difference between making it out and not. I was more than fine with that. Had they been jetting off on vacations and buying designer clothes, but refusing to give me monetary help for college, I do think I would have resented that. I wouldn't have hated them, but yeah, I think it would have affected how I thought about them. Even if parents aren't living extravagantly, I personally have problems with someone who could help, but simply chooses not to because they are "done" supporting their child at 18. 

 

If you're hovering in the low-income area, getting a Pell grant can make a huge difference.  If you live at home and have access to a university with reasonable tuition, a Pell grant can be what tips it over into being feasible. Likewise, parents providing groceries, gas money, or the use of a car can make it work, even if they don't pay full tuition and so on. 

 

I lived in the dorm about an hour away, with small Pell grants and some help from home. It wasn't cheaper for me to stay home, because I didn't have a car and no way to get to local university. 

[regentrude]

We are in the category of wouldn't pay even if we could. ....   Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay.  I am wondering how that is.  Are the "consequences" really all that different?

 

Not in terms of outcome for the student, but probably in terms of family dynamic and values.

 

Knowing parents do all they can to help, but simply don't have the financial means, creates a very different dynamic from knowing one's parents could help but don't want to.

 

Some families find it important that the kids develop the confidence  that parents have their back no matter what. I am grateful that I always had the feeling I could, if I ever found myself in a crisis, rely on my parents. I never needed their financial help, but knowing I had this safety net gave me a lot of security and confidence to face life. Nothing catastrophically bad could happen, because I knew I could rely on my family's help.

 

I could imagine that parents refusing to help even when they could might not create this feeling of security. I could imagine that a young adult might develop resentments when his parents make him struggle on purpose while they watch from a financially comfortable position.

Edited September 24, 2017 by regentrude

[SeaConquest]

Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay.  I am wondering how that is.  Are the "consequences" really all that different?

 

Yes, the consequences are different. I tested gifted at a young age, and skipped kinder because of it. My parents had a decade+ of notice that college was on the horizon, yet they still chose to spend their money on luxuries in lieu of prudent planning for my education.

 

I got good grades and the largest merit scholarship that USC offered (as well as an ROTC scholarship, which covered 80% of tuition). What more was I to do? From my perspective, I did my part. Did they do theirs? Seriously, it never occurred to them to save something for my education? Really? I resented them for putting me in such a predicament at 17 years old. My life would have been vastly different had they done their part.

 

And I am not even talking about meeting their EFC; just making up the difference between my scholarships and the cost of attendance. I'm sorry that they tied up their income in real estate and luxury items, but what was I to do at 17?

 

It was not at all the same scenario as parents who simply didn't have the funds, and it impacted our relationship for a long time.

Edited September 24, 2017 by SeaConquest

[Arcadia]

We are in the category of wouldn't pay even if we could. DD21 does still qualify for some pell grants, and there's no way we would cover her tuition (or room and board) even if we wanted to. Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay. I am wondering how that is. Are the "consequences" really all that different?

My husband is still annoyed 24 years later with his parents because they could pay but choose not too. They paid for his elder siblings but he has to get scholarships because he was smart enough to qualify for the less selective scholarships. So he felt penalized for being “smart†and having good grades.

 

My FIL was earning $52k annual at a time the public university that is walking distance away cost <$8k all in. My husband is the youngest so no one else to pay for. My husband also joined the military (non-combat) because it was a stable income and not because he wanted to. He got out when he could and we have always stayed as far away as possible from his parents. When your child (general) relocate to another country mainly to be away from you, that is telling.

 

When I entered college in 1991, my same age friend qualified for need based scholarship as her family is on welfare and govt subsidized housing. So she graduated without debt and whatever she earned from her first pay check onwards could be used to help out her widowed mom (her dad passed while she was in college).

Another friend had the money from his parents to pay and took out an interest free loan from the bank. He put the money in fixed deposits and so graduated debt free and some bank interest.

 

Another friend doesn’t get any money from his parents who could afford it and also could not qualify for any need based aid. He took out student loans and was hit hard when he was unemployed during the economy downturn. He is an industrious person but no jobs mean no jobs. People also cut down on tutoring during a recession so he couldn’t even earn enough tutoring to pay loans. So while I could relax debt free during the recession and survive on lower paying jobs, my same age friend was struggling due to no fault of his own. It is not his fault he isn’t “good enough†for a full ride scholarship and he wasn’t able to get a govt. job.

 

We could afford at the moment about $30k/year/child for college. If we withhold that amount, our kids would be hunting for work instead of studying and resting. My area doesn’t have many jobs left for college age kids because many SAHM rejoined the workforce during the recent recession. It would be hard for them to earn that amount other than earning by tutoring high school kids for many hours. My neighbor’s 16 year old daughter can’t get a job even though she is looking and even babysitting jobs are hard to come by. She wants to earn money but she isn’t earning much. Her parents can afford to pay the approximately $33k per year for state university and they intend to when the time comes. Their family income is way over the limit for the middle class grants by the state universities.

 

ETA:

What my in-laws said over the years had signaled that FIL has the notion that his nephews and nieces that are smart but did not get merit based scholarships are lazy and should not be helped by his (FIL) siblings. So it wasn’t a case of favoritism but a weird case of if you are smart you are on your own even if the parents could easily afford full pay.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Arcadia

[JanetC]

We are in the category of wouldn't pay even if we could. DD21 does still qualify for some pell grants, and there's no way we would cover her tuition (or room and board) even if we wanted to. Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay. I am wondering how that is. Are the "consequences" really all that different?

They can be. Suppose your child didn't get that Pell grant - that's either more working hours or more loans (assuming she isn't maxed out on direct loan eligibility already).

 

Depending on how much the school helps students in financial need, there may be other money that a student with parents who can't pay would get, but students with parents who won't pay would not be eligible for.

 

For students whose parents can't-but-won't pay (or where the financial aid formulas are out of whack with reality and can't-but-college-thinks-they-can), there are options, but depending on in-state costs where you live and the student's ability to earn scholarships, the educational opportunities (without leading to unreasonable financial strain) are narrower.

 

I watched the receptionist at our dance studio spiral down and fail trying to work and go to school. Her roommate left her stuck paying 100% of the rent and the work hours needed to make that up and avoid eviction plus the school hours needed to keep full time to maintain financial aid eventually led to so much lack of sleep that she was fired from her job. There is a reason why kids from low income families are much less likely to finish college.

Edited September 24, 2017 by JanetC

[Pawz4me]

 

We are in the category of wouldn't pay even if we could.  DD21 does still qualify for some pell grants, and there's no way we would cover her tuition (or room and board) even if we wanted to.   Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay.  I am wondering how that is.  Are the "consequences" really all that different?

 

DH's parents always spent whatever extra money they had after the bills were paid. They traveled a lot and his mom readily admits she bought whatever she saw that she wanted. They always carried some credit card debt. When it came time for him to go to college he got no help from them. I think he's always resented, at least a little bit, that they could have saved a little to help him (and his sister) through college but chose not to. SIL also harbors some resentment. So, yeah . . . the difference in consequences is the potential harm it can do to the relationship.

[wapiti]

Regarding price changes:  in 1986, my tuition was just under 10k.  At the same school in 2017, tuition is 52k.  According to a random inflation calculator on the internet, 10k in 1986 would be 22k in 2017.  (Neither figure includes room and board, though those costs seem much more stable over time.)  Of course there are alternatives at far lower price points, but I think this illustrates the increase in cost since the time I was in college.

 

My parents paid a little, I had a full-tuition combination merit/need scholarship, a Pell grant, federal student loan, and work-study.  If my parents couldn't or wouldn't meet even that small EFC, I don't know how I would have done it - they were as clueless as I was.

 

There is a reason why kids from low income families are much less likely to finish college.

 

This.

 

I would add that non-financial support can be just as important as financial support; see e.g. 8's post about researching low-cost, high-quality opportunities for her kids).  Navigating the world of college costs can be daunting even to a parent, let alone an 18 y.o., and for those families who won't meet their EFC (for any reason whatsoever), I suggest getting a jump on learning about this topic as early as possible.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am curious why you feel like not paying for college means "done supporting their child at 18."

 

I have said it earlier in the thread, I am not some heartless kick the child out at 18, don't let the butt hit you on the way out kind of parent. We don't pay for college but that doesn't mean the kid is cut off. She's responsible for her own gas, but if she comes to us and says "hey can you give me some gas money this week?" Sure, here's my gas card (I use a gas station reloadable gift card to pay for gas) just fill it up and don't forget to give it back before you head home. When she needed extra money to cover a class over the summer because her scholarship couldn't, our WHOLE family pooled their resources to help out. Because we ALL help each other out. Over the summer her savings that she had set aside from her pell grant that she uses to cover rent ran out, of COURSE we gave her money to get her through.

 

 

Not paying for college doesn't have to mean cutting the kid off and being "done" at the age of 18. Just providing some support to a child at 18/19/29 doesn't have to mean paying for college.

Then you are paying some for college. It might not be a lot but paying some to cover a class still counts. I don't know why it is so important for you to deny it.

[regentrude]

So, what about if parents, instead of spending everything they have on buying whatever they wanted.......the parents are saving for retirement?  I think someone else said earlier in the thread, there are no loans for retirement.  Or what if they are saving in anticipation of perhaps paying extraordinary costs later in life in support of a special needs individual.  Does that make a difference?

 

Having to save the funds for retirement or to pay for care of a special needs sibling or for medical cost would mean parents can't pay for college because they need the money for these expenses and there is not enough to responsibly fund both.

 

We were talking about parents who can fund college, but refuse to do so.

This means they have enough money for retirement, medical living expenses and college, and for some reason do not want to pay for college.

Edited September 25, 2017 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

It's not important to deny anything. Honestly, it never occured to me that anyone would consider coming up with a couple thousand to cover a class and giving a kid gas money and groceries on occasion counted as "paying for some college."

I count it. It's all that I can do. And my kids appreciate it.

[8filltheheart]

No my DD has a full tuition scholarship. She gets about $2k (maybe $2300? Not sure exactly.) Because her scholarship covers her tuition and fees (though not books) she gets that back as a refund, which she then puts in the local credit union and uses that to pay her rent each month. She works about 15 to 25 hours (more in the summer) to cover groceries, gas, etc.

If your Dd did not have a full tuition scholarship and did not qualify for a Pell grant, would she be able to attend college? If so, how would she pay her tuition bill?

[Gwen in VA]

 I didn't want them to think they could just feel entitled to go to anywhere and we'd pick up the tab for their partying.

I think kids' attitude towards money is "caught" from their parents. If you have worked hard and have been frugal, your kids will think this approach is normal.

 

Kids who have been given stuff -- cars, insurance paid for, tuition covered by merit aid and/or parental monies, camps, expensive opportunities -- don't necessarily assume that they are entitled to having the parents pick up the tab. They may feel grateful for the lack of loans and the many opportunities they have had, especially when they talk with others who are saddled with horrific debt and unsupportive parents.

 

My kids are far more frugal than we are -- which I have yet to understand but am very grateful for!

 

YMMV obviously, but paying for things doesn't necessarily produce entitled kids!

[Jazzy]

Some families find it important that the kids develop the confidence that parents have their back no matter what. I am grateful that I always had the feeling I could, if I ever found myself in a crisis, rely on my parents. I never needed their financial help, but knowing I had this safety net gave me a lot of security and confidence to face life. Nothing catastrophically bad could happen, because I knew I could rely on my family's help.

This is the perspective from which we plan to help our adult kids. We love you. We have your back. You do your part, and if you need help, we'll do what we can.

 

We started saving for college when each child was born. We didn't know at the time there would be 7 children. We had no idea until a few years ago how much the cost of college had gone up. So an amount we thought would be generous is not nearly enough cover our EFC, but we'll do what we can.

 

That being said, I don't feel we OWE them any help with college costs. We've provided a nice lifestyle. We pay for medical expenses, braces, homeschooling materials and courses, extra curricular activities, an inexpensive annual family vacation, etc. We're not perfect, but we've tried to be responsible by saving, putting money in retirement account, etc.

 

I don't feel my children have the right to come back and analyze our income vs. all of our decisions and be resentful that our choices didn't enable us to give them more money for college. I don't feel they have a right say, "I got a scholarship here, but I'm really smart so you pay for me to go there." Or, "If we hadn't taken those family vacations, I wouldn't have had to go start at community college instead of the state university." It comes across to me as entitled, and if one of them has that attitude, I don't think I'm going to be to happy about it.

 

I honestly believe that any help we give them after high school graduation is a gift. We want to help and plan to help them. But I absolutely don't judge parents who decide hey I've done my part and now I want to buy a new car and go on vacation. If they've done their part up until the children were age 18, then I don't feel they are obligated to pay for college.

 

Our parents did help us out a little while we were in college. We were thankful for whatever they gave and didn't feel they owed us anything.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Jazzy

[8filltheheart]

We spent her middle school years hunting down scholarships and grants. She wrote essays. She filled out online forms. She created social media accounts for the sole purpose of submitting for scholarships.

 

She received the one she has prior to entering high school. So, she did not spend high school looking for scholarships. What would have happened in those four years had she continued to look? I dunno. What DID happen during that time was that we had 2 of the 3 additional kids, DH finished school, went through a few job changes, including a period of unemployment due to being laid off. So, a lot can happen in four years.

 

She might have gone part time. She might have gone to a community college to try to transfer later. She might have taken a year off and worked full time at the cake shop or somewhere else. She might have taken some additional cake decorating classes and found a cake decorating job, she did enjoy that. She might have contacted the NWS office she had an internship with her senior year to see if they had anything available to get her foot in the door. For a time, DH and I both worked at a company that had tuition reimbursement, so maybe she would have found a job there.

 

 

But to me, asking "what would she have done" is kind of like asking.......what would I have done if hadn't gotten pregnant at 17 with her.

Your post reads like you can't afford to be full pay for college expenses. The fact that she is Pell eligible leads to that conclusion as well. I am not sure how that fits with the discussion of parents who can afford to help and deliberately opt not to.

[teachermom2834]

I count it. It's all that I can do. And my kids appreciate it.

Yep. That is the level of support we can offer. "A couple of thousand" is an amount I definitely consider helping my dc and they appreciate it.

[katilac]

I am curious why you feel like not paying for college means "done supporting their child at 18."

 

I have said it earlier in the thread, I am not some heartless kick the child out at 18, don't let the butt hit you on the way out kind of parent.  We don't pay for college but that doesn't mean the kid is cut off.  She's responsible for her own gas, but if she comes to us and says "hey can you give me some gas money this week?" Sure, here's my gas card (I use a gas station reloadable gift card to pay for gas) just fill it up and don't forget to give it back before you head home.  When she needed extra money to cover a class over the summer because her scholarship couldn't, our WHOLE family pooled their resources to help out.  Because we ALL help each other out.  Over the summer her savings that she had set aside from her pell grant that she uses to cover rent ran out, of COURSE we gave her money to get her through.

 

 

Not paying for college doesn't have to mean cutting the kid off and being "done" at the age of 18.  Just providing some support to a child at 18/19/29 doesn't have to mean paying for college.

 

 

 

Then you are paying some for college. It might not be a lot but paying some to cover a class still counts. I don't know why it is so important for you to deny it.

 

 

It's not important to deny anything.  Honestly, it never occured to me that anyone would consider coming up with a couple thousand to cover a class and giving a kid gas money and groceries on occasion counted as "paying for some college."

 

A couple of thousand dollars, plus occasional help with gas money, groceries, and rent, is HUGE. For many kids, it's the difference between staying in college versus dropping out.  

 

Like Jean, I am a little puzzled as to your responses. You don't want to be perceived as not helping your dd, and make sure to point out that you do indeed give her monetary help, but you insist that's not "paying for some college." What else is it? You paid for a class. You pay for some gas money so she can get to class. You pay for some groceries so she can survive and get to class. You paid for a shortage in rent so she has a place to live.  

 

Do you have an amount or a percentage that you consider to be paying for college, or paying for some college?  

 

I also don't see how giving her all the needed information isn't "messing with the FASFA." I mean, that's the hard part, lol. If I have all the info in front of me, I can enter it in less than 5 minutes. If she's getting enough money to set aside to pay her rent, that's not what I would consider a "bit" of a Pell grant, either. 

 

Giving the monetary support that you do seems to me a far cry from the OP, who states that they give zero dollars to college. 

 

You are helping her with college. That's great. Own it.  :coolgleamA:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Of COURSE we are helping our child.

 

It's just that as I said, the paying for some gas when she's low on cash and helping to cover a class over the summer would be considered "paying for college."

The topic is "helping with money for college kids ". I bet that more people are like us -helping in various ways to alleviate the financial burden- than in the position of being able to completely fund all college costs. Edited September 25, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Crimson Wife]

Why does not paying for college=don't have a kid's back?  Again, not paying for college doesn't equal never giving a kid another dime ever, never giving any help, it just doesn't have to be all or nothing. 

 

My kid ABSOLUTELY can rely on us....AND KNOWS IT.  How?  Because of everything else I have mentioned.  Because when her car dies, DH drives up there and fixes it in the parking lot of her apartment complex.  Because when he couldn't fix it, my parents loaned her one of their spares.  Because we cover all her medical costs.  Because......when she HAS a problem, she calls us and we help.  Nothing catastrophically bad could happen because she can rely on us. 

 

Not having college tuition paid for is not something I would put in the same category as "catastrophically bad."

 

 

You're not the only one who feels that way. If parents have the funds and decide to use it to assist their kids with college tuition, fantastic. But I don't believe that it's a parent's OBLIGATION to do so nor do I feel it's "catastrophic" for adults to be responsible for their own post-secondary education. A resourceful individual will figure out some way to do it if he/she truly wants it badly enough.

[Gwen in VA]

I have appreciated my parents' view of college expenses over the years --

 

Early 1950's -- My father (class of '55) paid for ALL his own expenses -- tuition plus other expenses at a private college. He lived at home, but he covered all his own expenses by working at a radio station. He was a talented guy so he earned significantly more than the minimum wage, but his earnings fully funded his tuition + fees at a PRIVATE college.

 

Late 1970's through early 1980's -- My brother and I had our education (at two of the most expensive colleges in the country at the time) fully funded by my parents. Tuition plus room and board was the equivalent of approximately half a public school teacher's salary. (My mother was a public school teacher at the time, and while salaries vary widely across the country, her salary was over twice the tuition plus room and board cost of two of the most expensive colleges in the country.) My parents fully funded our education because my mother's public school salary (minus taxes, etc.) more than covered ALL our college expenses. My parents lived on my dad's salary and used my mother's salary to pay for our college. (My brother and I are spaced such that only one of us was in college at a time.)

 

Circa 2010 -- the public school teacher salaries listed in our local newspaper are approximately 2/3 of my kids' tuition plus room and board at a (expensive) private college. In other words, in the years around 2010 a public school teacher who contributed 100% of pre-tax income to funding a kid's private college education would not be able to actually fully fund it.  My husband and I would have needed to save literally one million dollars to fully fund sending our kids to top private schools. (Right now that number is even higher!) (BTW, thankfully our kids received outrageously generous merit aid and one of our kids attended a tuition-free school. We have paid "very little" for our four kids' education -- and even that "very little" has more digits than I want to think about!)

 

If you are in the fortunate position of having enough money to be able to contribute towards your kids' college expenses, please consider this timeline. My father fully funded his education through work. My education was easily fully funded by one public school teacher's post-tax salary -- no savings were involved. And right now one public school teacher's salary would not remotely cover private school tuition room and board (for the more expensive private colleges). (My parents still do not grasp how the finances have changed and are still appalled that one of our kids turned down U. Chicago for financial reasons!)

 

 

[goldberry]

So, what about if parents, instead of spending everything they have on buying whatever they wanted.......the parents are saving for retirement? I think someone else said earlier in the thread, there are no loans for retirement. Or what if they are saving in anticipation of perhaps paying extraordinary costs later in life in support of a special needs individual. Does that make a difference?

 

Of course it does. Doing what you can to help does not mean screwing over either yourself or your other obligations. What you described doing sounds perfectly normal to me, and like your kids would absolutely know they were cared about and that you support their endeavors.

[creekland]

Some people have said it's different if you can pay but choose not to, vs can't pay.  I am wondering how that is.  Are the "consequences" really all that different?

 

As others have mentioned. the consequences are phenomenally different.  Kids whose parents can't pay still respect them, even more if they help out via advice or "any way they can." They might get mad at how unfair life is, but they don't target that at their parents.

 

Kids whose parents won't pay/help (could, but refuse - and those kids are able to/want to go to college) usually harbor really intense resentment.  That resentment can linger on for a lifetime.  I've seen kids cut their parents out of their lives (sometimes entirely) over such things.  It might not happen at the end of high school/start of college, but as soon as they realize what could have been vs what is...

[frogger]

As someone who had 0 help from my parents from 17 on, I totally disagree.

 

You only have a bad relationship if you get angry about not getting money from your parents because you think it's OWED to you. If you wanted to be independent it would never come up in conversation. Life would go on and you would still have the same attitude you'd always had towards your parents.

 

Yes, I'm still helping out in old age and helped with Grandma's care too. I'm not in any way angry but I also never had an expectation that they would help.

 

I'm also not giving that expectation to my children even though I'm going to really try to help out as much as I can. I don't know the future though and I'm not going to give them that expectation to begin with.

[Sneezyone]

As someone who had 0 help from my parents from 17 on, I totally disagree.

 

You only have a bad relationship if you get angry about not getting money from your parents because you think it's OWED to you. If you wanted to be independent it would never come up in conversation. Life would go on and you would still have the same attitude you'd always had towards your parents.

 

Yes, I'm still helping out in old age and helped with Grandma's care too. I'm not in any way angry but I also never had an expectation that they would help.

 

I'm also not giving that expectation to my children even though I'm going to really try to help out as much as I can. I don't know the future though and I'm not going to give them that expectation to begin with.

There are always outliers.

 

I know that my mother's decision to buy my irresponsible younger sister new sports cars, herself motorcycles and beamers, all while I struggled to come up with laundry money and worked 25 hrs a week damaged our relationship immensely.

 

My relationship with my dad, who offered me an old beater so I could come home on the weekends, his car repair services, free laundry, and bags of oranges and avocados from his backyard is far better. It still makes me cry thinking back on that time. I was so, so, so angry with her.

 

I never, ever felt entitled to my mom's money. I felt entitled to be a priority in her life. I didn't ask to be born. She chose to show me in a million ways that my sister and her boyfriend were priorities while I was not. I worked my ass off to get into that school. I took out loans and had credit card debt because her credit was shot. She's still apologizing all these years later and trying to buy my respect. I pass the phone and the money to my kids. I don't want it or need it now. What matters is that she chose not to be there when I needed her.

[Laura Corin]

 

I do not understand the rationale behind being able to assist but refusing to do so. In my experience, carrying staggering college cost is not a prerequisite to becoming a financially responsible adult, as all the financially responsible people show who have grown up in countries that value education and offer free college, DH and myself included.

 

 

And me.  I had no tuition fees and a government stipend at university.  I have not asked for money from my parents from age 18 onwards and I have been lucky enough not to have to rely on government income support programmes.  I am back working full time now I no longer home educate, and will do so until my late sixties at least, in order to reduce my future dependence on my sons.

[Laura Corin]

For all the posters claiming that students who don't qualify for need-based financial aid have only the options of massive debt or not going to college, this is false.

 

The military offers money for college through both ROTC (where the student attends college first and completes the military obligation after graduation) and the GI Bill (where the individual enlists first and attends college either while serving or after).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Both my US-citizen children are ineligible for the US army due to medical conditions.

 

We have a deal with our kids. They can borrow what they need out of our savings and investments, but when they graduate they must move back in rent free and work until the debt is repaid. That works here because while we could help one or two or maybe three, we wouldn't have the money to help all of them and still save for retirement. We're giving them interest free loans but staying solvent for the next round of expenses. Also this doesn't penalize the ones who take the merit scholarships at lower tier state schools to save money.

 

This would depend where you live.  If you live somewhere remote with few job opportunities, then after a few years of minimum wage jobs to pay off the loan, they would be applying for graduate jobs alongside fresh graduates, which (I read) puts young people at a disadvantage.  In your situation, I might insist on a repayment programme with the option of living away to get a better job, rather than insisting on their coming home.

 

Totally agree.

 

Majoring in something solely because it leads to a career that earns a particular salary can seriously backfire.

 

On one of the university tours that we took with Calvin, they very much discouraged students from taking 'practical' degrees that they had little interest in.  It just lead to low grades and high drop out, in their experience.

 

My niece has a degree in English but had a popular vlog from her teens.  She now manages the social media presence for a major charity.  My other niece has a degree in biochemistry and now is an account manager for an internet provider.  Both have good degrees from good universities in subjects that interested them.  

 

The US situation may vary, but it's worth looking into.

[DawnM]

I have appreciated my parents' view of college expenses over the years --

 

Early 1950's -- My father (class of '55) paid for ALL his own expenses -- tuition plus other expenses at a private college. He lived at home, but he covered all his own expenses by working at a radio station. He was a talented guy so he earned significantly more than the minimum wage, but his earnings fully funded his tuition + fees at a PRIVATE college.

 

Late 1970's through early 1980's -- My brother and I had our education (at two of the most expensive colleges in the country at the time) fully funded by my parents. Tuition plus room and board was the equivalent of approximately half a public school teacher's salary. (My mother was a public school teacher at the time, and while salaries vary widely across the country, her salary was over twice the tuition plus room and board cost of two of the most expensive colleges in the country.) My parents fully funded our education because my mother's public school salary (minus taxes, etc.) more than covered ALL our college expenses. My parents lived on my dad's salary and used my mother's salary to pay for our college. (My brother and I are spaced such that only one of us was in college at a time.)

 

Circa 2010 -- the public school teacher salaries listed in our local newspaper are approximately 2/3 of my kids' tuition plus room and board at a (expensive) private college. In other words, in the years around 2010 a public school teacher who contributed 100% of pre-tax income to funding a kid's private college education would not be able to actually fully fund it.  My husband and I would have needed to save literally one million dollars to fully fund sending our kids to top private schools. (Right now that number is even higher!) (BTW, thankfully our kids received outrageously generous merit aid and one of our kids attended a tuition-free school. We have paid "very little" for our four kids' education -- and even that "very little" has more digits than I want to think about!)

 

If you are in the fortunate position of having enough money to be able to contribute towards your kids' college expenses, please consider this timeline. My father fully funded his education through work. My education was easily fully funded by one public school teacher's post-tax salary -- no savings were involved. And right now one public school teacher's salary would not remotely cover private school tuition room and board (for the more expensive private colleges). (My parents still do not grasp how the finances have changed and are still appalled that one of our kids turned down U. Chicago for financial reasons!)

 

This is similar to my experience:

 

My dad went to private school and paid for it.  It was under $3,000 for tuition, room, and board.  He only went 3 years because he was able to count his senior year and the first year of med school as one year (some special thing back then if you qualified.)  He lived at home with his parents during med school for 4 years and med school (Oregon State in Portland) was under $1000/year.  

 

My parents paid my tuition and room and board at the same private college my dad went to.  I got quite a few scholarships, but it was still $10K per year for tuition, room, board.  I don't know what "sticker price" was as I didn't pay attention.  

 

That school is now $50K+ for room, board, and tuition.  My kids aren't going.  And yes they could get scholarships, etc....but they would have to be significant.  

Edited September 25, 2017 by DawnM

[8filltheheart]

I thnk there are multiple very different issues. My parents didn't give a cent after I turned 18. I never resented that fact, but their decision didn't impact my ability to attend college or pursue my goals. I was able to work part-time during the school yr and full-time during the summer and pay of my expenses. That was doable when I was 18. (Even paying for my own health insurance. If parents are not providing their 18 yr olds with health insurance today, over 1/2 of their federal student loan would be required just to pay for their insurance. Between health insurance and books, they would be lucky if they still had $2000 dollars left.)

 

Fast-forward to today. Kids whose parents have very high expected parental contributions cannot bridge that gap with part-time work, full time work, or even 100% of a yr's salary post-college graduation even if they attend their cheapest in-state flagship and cannot commute to the campus. A low dollar amt cost of living on campus, paying for tuition, room, board, and books is $20,000. (And that is low. My kids' current college in-state costs for tuition, room, board, books (no insurance, no travel or personal expenses is around $26,000.) That student is eligible for $5,500 in loans. Without any parental support, even working and saving, there is no way for a student to fill in that gap.

 

We cannot even come close to meeting our expecte parental contribution. If we cannot afford it and look at those $$ amts as insurmountable, there is no way a teenager can make a dent in the amt independently. It is just not realistic.

 

So where does that leave our kids? With very few options. They can earn large enough scholarships that they can afford to go away to those colleges or they can live at home and commute bc we can pay for tuition. Living at home and commuting is a workable option for my kids that graduate with typical high school level accomplishments. My kids who graduated significantly beyond high school level would have been poorly served by 4 yr local options. Both of them would have surpassed course offerings in their major freshman yr.

 

Thankfully my kids have been able to earn enough scholarship $$ to attend universities that fit their needs better. Those better options meant opening doors to grad level classes, better research opportunities, better academic programs. They could have attended the local universities, but it would have made us incredibly depressed that they had to bc they would have spent all their time finishing gen eds and not being able to take appropriate in major courses. No joy in the fact they our inability to pay what colleges expect us to pay means our kids have very few options.

[Prairie~Phlox]

I have not read everything, but we fall into the category that we are not helping at all.  We really don't financially have the money to do so, but because we make so little, it does help them when it comes to financial aid.  I paid my way through school and have a BA.  DH's parents had money and Dh wasted it, eventually flunking out because he wasn't burned out (long story) and never went back and he's so smart that it's sad to see that he could have done a lot better for himself.  Our dd started at CC at 16 and will have her Associates at 19 in December.  She plans to do online schooling, which is a LOT cheaper than B&M Univeristy and she lives at home.  DS almost 18, plans to get his Comptia A+ certifications and also start online schooling towards a bachelors.  There are lots of other options besides going to a University and having to pay a much larger amount. Just by DS doing the Comptia certs he saves from having to take 2 classes and won't need to take any dual credit, which also saves.  My dc have worked since they were very young and have saved, saved, saved.  They also have UTMA accounts that FIL started and will have a large sum of money at 21.  Not enough to pay for their entire schooling, but to help a little bit.  DH and I don't believe college is for everyone and we've not "pushed" it, I've helped guide them along the way though according to what they want to do.  DS 16 is talking military and shouldn't have a problem getting in, so we're preparing for that. 

College is just too expensive these days to waste thousands of dollars.  My friend already took out loans to help her daughter last year and her daughter just told her on Saturday that she doesn't want to continue. I do think when they are more financially responsible for college, some take it more seriously.

 

[creekland]

As someone who had 0 help from my parents from 17 on, I totally disagree.

 

You only have a bad relationship if you get angry about not getting money from your parents because you think it's OWED to you. If you wanted to be independent it would never come up in conversation. Life would go on and you would still have the same attitude you'd always had towards your parents.

 

I agree a ton depends upon the student, esp since not all want to go to college or want it right away.  I disagree that it's an "owed" expectation.  

 

It's far more common to see a favoritism issue occur (boys will have college paid, but not girls, or favored child, but not unfavored child).

 

If not that, if it's "no help, but parents could have helped" for all kids, then it often depends upon whether the goal can still happen or not.  When the kid simply can't go (can't get enough loans, etc) AND wants to go, that's when the deepest resentment occurs.  I also saw a young lass about 4-5 years ago go from working in a diner thinking she would be able to save enough to getting hooked on drugs when she realized it was hopeless.  I haven't seen her since I saw her listed in our police blotter (published in our newspaper).  She had acceptances.  I often wonder what would have happened if we'd had unlimited wealth and been able to help when her parents wouldn't.  Perhaps it would have been money sent down the drain and she'd have majored in party or something - or perhaps she'd be near graduation looking forward to life.  Knowing her in high school, it's a gamble I'd have taken if we could have.

 

It's one thing when parents can't help (or help much).  Kids often appreciate the group effort, perhaps more than getting a total gift TBH.  It's totally another when they could, but won't AND that decision leads to a completely different life than their dreams (if it doesn't, no big deal) - esp when peers are getting to live their dreams - heading out each fall, posting on FB, etc.  It's life shattering to many in that position.  I'm sure some make it.  I've yet to hear anyone IRL be grateful for having been in that position.  I've definitely seen more who completely cut their parents out of their lives, though most don't go that far, they just have a significant wedge between them and critical stories to tell for the rest of their lives.

[frogger]

 

I never, ever felt entitled to my mom's money. I felt entitled to be a priority in her life. I didn't ask to be born. She chose to show me in a million ways that my sister and her boyfriend were priorities while I was not. I worked my ass off to get into that school. I took out loans and had credit card debt because her credit was shot. She's still apologizing all these years later and trying to buy my respect. I pass the phone and the money to my kids. I don't want it or need it now. What matters is that she chose not to be there when I needed her.

 

 

I'm so sorry. :grouphug:  There is obviously much more going on here than college funds. 

 

To pay for one siblings stuff and not anothers or to not pay at all when family culture dictates that you should would cause resentment. If you and all your cousins and siblings know and expect that you are to figure things out on your own and that's the way it is then that is a different ball game. You just do it.   If you suddenly became ill and needed nursing they would be there. In other words, you can be a close family and kids can be a priority without the automatic expectation of paying for college or taking care of healthy kids past 18. 

[frogger]

I agree a ton depends upon the student, esp since not all want to go to college or want it right away.  I disagree that it's an "owed" expectation.  

 

It's far more common to see a favoritism issue occur (boys will have college paid, but not girls, or favored child, but not unfavored child).

 

If not that, if it's "no help, but parents could have helped" for all kids, then it often depends upon whether the goal can still happen or not.  When the kid simply can't go (can't get enough loans, etc) AND wants to go, that's when the deepest resentment occurs.  I also saw a young lass about 4-5 years ago go from working in a diner thinking she would be able to save enough to getting hooked on drugs when she realized it was hopeless.  I haven't seen her since I saw her listed in our police blotter (published in our newspaper).  She had acceptances.  I often wonder what would have happened if we'd had unlimited wealth and been able to help when her parents wouldn't.  Perhaps it would have been money sent down the drain and she'd have majored in party or something - or perhaps she'd be near graduation looking forward to life.  Knowing her in high school, it's a gamble I'd have taken if we could have.

 

It's one thing when parents can't help (or help much).  Kids often appreciate the group effort, perhaps more than getting a total gift TBH.  It's totally another when they could, but won't AND that decision leads to a completely different life than their dreams (if it doesn't, no big deal) - esp when peers are getting to live their dreams - heading out each fall, posting on FB, etc.  It's life shattering to many in that position.  I'm sure some make it.  I've yet to hear anyone IRL be grateful for having been in that position.  I've definitely seen more who completely cut their parents out of their lives, though most don't go that far, they just have a significant wedge between them and critical stories to tell for the rest of their lives.

 

 

Remember that I have decided to help as much as possible my own children so you aren't convincing me it's better or at least easier with help. Trust me. I spent a lot of time waiting tables and living with those in the lower income brackets. I had to, remember I didn't have any help. :)

 

 I know more people who were fine with it than not so I can give an anecdote for all of yours but I do think expectations are changing and therefore kids will run into more people who have it easier and that could cause resentment. I don't know that that was true in my generation and I haven't seen it a lot. I doubt my kids would resent it considering our great relationship but I guess I can't be an example since I am helping. 

 

I do see a lot of people who are less empathetic towards the poor because they themselves lived in poverty and have the BTDT badge. If they were like me they probably saw a lot of stuff that made them shake their head. They don't realize what advantages they had though.  So that part of their character training isn't all that great but I won't get into that for this thread. 

[teachermom2834]

While college is not for everyone, neither are trades or military or other professions that don't necessarily require college. My kids are good at school but don't have a handy bone in their body. I've often said that if they have to make their living with their hands they will starve. They come from a long line (on both sides) of smart folks who need to hire out anyting more complex than changing a light bulb. I'm not proud of that and frequently embarassed as most of our peers are very handy.

 

So, if I didn't help with college I'm sure my kids could eventually make their way in some other kind of job. They likely wouldn't ever be really good at it in the way those who are gifted in those areas are.

 

It doesn't seem wise to me, for our family, to limit college to only those who are willing to clear the hurdle of finding a way to pay for it themselves. The whole "if it is really important to them they will find a way" is an awfully high bar. For our family I guess the bar is "if it is really important to them they will find a way to contribute significantly and attend one of the most affordable schools".

 

I'll admit there is probably some selfish motivation on my part, as well. I tend to think a couple thousand dollars plus some random help here or there with incidentals (which is what our level of support is so far) is an investment in my own future. I am sure we would never turn our back on kids that were in crisis. In our family situation a little help to get the kids through with a degree will likely make them far more self sufficient so that we are not having to help out with necessities throughout their adult life.

Edited September 25, 2017 by teachermom2834

[Arcadia]

You only have a bad relationship if you get angry about not getting money from your parents because you think it's OWED to you. If you wanted to be independent it would never come up in conversation.

Not all kids want to be independent at 17/18.

It is about setting expectations early, at least by 9th grade.

 

My neighborhood is such that the median income is $121,669 and 21.6% of households make over $200,000 a year. The cost of attendance for the cheapest state university while commuting from home is $13k/year. For the more pricy state university, it is $24k/year if commuting from home. Many households in my area has one or two children, three or more is rare.

 

So unless the parents let their kids know early, not helping at all for state universities when the take home pay is $100k or higher is going to make the child feel blindsided.

 

For example my dad made more than $50k take home when I entered college and zero debt. My mom worked on and off for fun as a part time nurse with good hourly wage and perks. My tuition was <$6k, all in less than $8k. My brother (only sibling) is 9 years younger. If my parents had told me only in 12th grade that they are not going to pay a cent towards my college tuition, I would either be tutoring like crazy to save up cash leaving little time for sleep, or studying like crazy to get an overseas scholarship and never look back. If my parents had told me in 9th grade that they are not helping for college, I would be wondering why (because I do my parents income tax filing for them since elementary school) but I would have started working at 14 to save up. It was easier in those days for me to get a supermarket job or data entry job at 14 years old.

 

I don’t think kids are entitled if they expect some help for college from their middle income debt free (no big medical expenses) parents unless they were told upfront and have years to save up. I am not talking about parents with their own debts and/or high medical costs, and having elderly parents to support financially.

[creekland]

Remember that I have decided to help as much as possible my own children so you aren't convincing me it's better or at least easier with help. Trust me. I spent a lot of time waiting tables and living with those in the lower income brackets. I had to, remember I didn't have any help. :)

 

 I know more people who were fine with it than not so I can give an anecdote for all of yours but I do think expectations are changing and therefore kids will run into more people who have it easier and that could cause resentment. I don't know that that was true in my generation and I haven't seen it a lot. I doubt my kids would resent it considering our great relationship but I guess I can't be an example since I am helping. 

 

I do see a lot of people who are less empathetic towards the poor because they themselves lived in poverty and have the BTDT badge. If they were like me they probably saw a lot of stuff that made them shake their head. They don't realize what advantages they had though.  So that part of their character training isn't all that great but I won't get into that for this thread. 

 

I definitely agree expectations (and costs) have changed.  So many more decent paying jobs require a degree now than a generation ago.  Not having one limits students far more than in the past.  The same goes for a high school diploma too.  Unemployment rates and income rates easily show a strong correlation to better jobs with higher education.  There are good paths for the "right" student without college, of course - vo tech options, etc, but for many without any sort of post high school education life is tougher now than a generation ago.

 

A couple of years back the seniors at our school made a video thanking many of the folks at our school (teachers, staff, etc) for all they did to help out.  In that video the (older - near retirement) janitor wished the graduates good luck, but with a tear in his eye also added how lucky many of them were to be going on to college.  He had wanted to, but couldn't afford to.  My own grandmother on my dad's side never made it past 4th grade because her family needed her income more than they felt she needed an education. It's not solely something from "now," but I definitely think it's "more" of an issue, especially when parents could have helped, but didn't (vs life causing those tears).

[MysteryJen]

My parents told me that I was going to be on my own for college expenses. I believed them and worked like crazy to get as free a college degree as I could. They also offered no guidance (nor did my school-another thread), so I made decisions based on finances that were not smart. I had to recover from them and then came home to go to the state university. It was fine, but not great and it was grudginly offered that I could live at home. I worked 20 hours a week, did weekly housecleaning for my board and killed myself to graduate in 2 years going year round. I fled to graduate school with a fellowship.

 

This was fine, until I was blindsided that my parents paid for 1. cars (I didn't have one, couldn't afford it) for my younger siblings 2. tuition and 3. rent for off-campus housing. And they took 5-7 years to get through school. 

 

So yes, it created a problem. For years, I was fine with what happened, I just chalked it up to a maturing experience, etc. But as my kids started to reach the teen years, I could not believe what my parents had done. I am not fine with it now. So I will provide guidance, care, and whatever I can provide financially for all of my kids. I don't feel that I was owed money. The money is not the point, I have no loans and I did not ever. It is the fact that I was given no consideration, no help with scholarships or researching schools, I was left to make huge decisions at 17 with the only guideline that I had no financial help, nor should I expect any.

 

Decisions that are worth tens of thousands of dollars should not be left SOLELY in the hands of 17 year olds. Parents should offer advice and help, even if the kids reject it. If you can't offer financial help, you can offer love and guidance. I firmly believe that resentment occurs when kids feel abandoned in a sea of adult decisions, as soon as they reach some (imho) completely arbitrary age.

 

Being unable to write a check for tutition, but able to help out when needed is completely different from refusing to help.

[SeaConquest]

I was completely blindsided when I went to my parents, in 11th grade, with pie charts about costs and details about admissions and financial aid. I suppose, on some level, I must have blindsided them too, since they were so woefully unprepared. But remember, this was 1991. It was normal for kids to start thinking seriously about college in the 11th grade, when they were taking SATs and/or PSATs. It's not like today where parents/kids seem to think about and discuss theses issues much earlier. 

 

And, it's not that I felt owed their money. Rather, I felt that they completely dropped the ball in planning and parenting. Your kid was in the GATE program and dual enrolling in college classes from the 10th grade (back when this was rare)! On some level, they had to have known this was coming for quite some time. Yet, they did nothing either to prepare for the situation or to prepare me for the situation. What kind of parenting is that?

 

They told me that if I got a 3.5 or above, they would buy me a car at age 16, and I had the nicest car in my high school class. Sweet! But, I didn't need an Acura Integra for my 16th birthday; I needed parents who adequately planned for my future.

 

And yes, I did want it badly. And I did go after it. And I did 'make it.' All true. But, at what cost? That is the question I ask myself now, in hindsight, in an age where gold stars mean less to me than personal happiness and fulfillment.

 

Lest I seem completely bitter and entitled, let me just say that I am no longer angry at my parents for their poor planning. Neither of them finished college, and they were both very busy working hard and making money during that time. And as a parent now myself, I understand that the vast majority of us try to do right by our kids, my parents inclusive. The only reason I am speaking up in this thread is to perhaps persuade other parents to consider these issues when making their own decisions. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by SeaConquest

[frogger]

Not all kids want to be independent at 17/18.

It is about setting expectations early, at least by 9th grade.

 

My neighborhood is such that the median income is $121,669 and 21.6% of households make over $200,000 a year. The cost of attendance for the cheapest state university while commuting from home is $13k/year. For the more pricy state university, it is $24k/year if commuting from home. Many households in my area has one or two children, three or more is rare.

 

So unless the parents let their kids know early, not helping at all for state universities when the take home pay is $100k or higher is going to make the child feel blindsided.

 

For example my dad made more than $50k take home when I entered college and zero debt. My mom worked on and off for fun as a part time nurse with good hourly wage and perks. My tuition was <$6k, all in less than $8k. My brother (only sibling) is 9 years younger. If my parents had told me only in 12th grade that they are not going to pay a cent towards my college tuition, I would either be tutoring like crazy to save up cash leaving little time for sleep, or studying like crazy to get an overseas scholarship and never look back. If my parents had told me in 9th grade that they are not helping for college, I would be wondering why (because I do my parents income tax filing for them since elementary school) but I would have started working at 14 to save up. It was easier in those days for me to get a supermarket job or data entry job at 14 years old.

 

I don’t think kids are entitled if they expect some help for college from their middle income debt free (no big medical expenses) parents unless they were told upfront and have years to save up. I am not talking about parents with their own debts and/or high medical costs, and having elderly parents to support financially.

 

It is interesting to me that the word entitled has come to have negative connotations. If you are entitiled to something that actually means you do have a right to it. It is a fascinating twist on a word although I didn't use that word it is interesting. I think it is because it has been used in politics a lot.

 

My point was that if there are not cultural expectations then it isn't really a problem. When I grew up it was not expected for anyone I know and I know many families that still run that way with no hard feelings. Part of the reason I have evolved is because enough of society now says that parents must provide the EFC that it has become an extra difficulty beyond what it was when I went to school especially if you make a decent living.

 

This comes with its own set of difficulties. Who makes the decisions? What if the parents don't want to pay for a certain degree? What if they can afford to pay for an older child's education but not a younger child's or the other way around? What if one kid picks a dramatically more expensive route than another?

 

I'm going to be a first generation navigator of these types of questions. All of these can also cause resentment too.

[8filltheheart]

Part of the reason I have evolved is because enough of society now says that parents must provide the EFC that it has become an extra difficulty beyond what it was when I went to school especially if you make a decent living.

 

This comes with its own set of difficulties. Who makes the decisions? What if the parents don't want to pay for a certain degree? What if they can afford to pay for an older child's education but not a younger child's or the other way around? What if one kid picks a dramatically more expensive route than another?

I am not sure what you mean by the bolded. It is the way it is in the financial aid world of college. It isn't a societal thing as in parents are willing to pay. Either parents pay their expected contribution or the student has to get the money from somewhere bc college costs at many schools are on a sliding scale based on parental income, not based on whether or not the parents are willing to pay.

 

In terms of the final paragraph, it is precisely why our kids have such limited options. Colleges do not care how many kids we have unless they are in college at the same time. Our kids are spaced out with very little overlap. If we had 1 child, sacrificing that percentage of take home pay for 4 yrs might be doable, but from 2007-2032....we would never be able to save for retirement.

 

It takes a lot of navigating to figure out how to make it work for so many kids. Thankfully, our 10th grader wants to live at home and commute, so I get a breather for a few yrs before figuring out the next one.

[frogger]

It isn't a societal thing as in parents are willing to pay. Either parents pay their expected contribution or the student has to get the money from somewhere bc college costs at many schools are on a sliding scale based on parental income, not based on whether or not the parents are willing to pay.

If no parents ever paid for their children's college then I'm sure it wouldn't have evolved the way it has. Society and cultural expectations definitly affect rules, laws, and regulations. Students have actually sued their parents in court for payment. I personally had no say in how it came about but it is what it is.

 

I completely emphathize with the spread out kids. Losing the ability to pay down housing or save for medical or retirement needs for such a long span of time is pretty harsh.

[Pawz4me]

Parents have been paying for their kids' college/university educations for centuries.

[madteaparty]

Parents have been paying for their kids' college/university educations for centuries.

 

And going into debt/pulling help from grandparents/relatives, etc. I find these threads baffling.

I absolutely think we owe our children an education, and if not in $$, then in savvy and know-how in order to be able to navigate the world. What else are we leaving them? Specifically for scenarios like Seaquest and my kid who would not qualify for any aid due to parental income, it seems particularly cruel to cut them off. They can't help their parents' income, it's true, but that goes both ways.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't disagree, in general, that we owe our kids AN education.

 

My question is..........how much?

 

That is a different question. My inlaws had a policy of contributing an amount equal to in state tuition. Their kids could apply elsewhere but would need to earn scholarships.

 

I haven't noticed anyone here say whatever school a student is accepted to at whatever price should be paid by parents. I know there ARE people out there that think a kid should attend the highest ranked school they are accepted to. I don't see that stance here much (If ever).