Financial Aid-for those who have kids in college

[whitestavern]

I'm getting a bit nervous regarding financial aid potential for my dd, who will be entering college in fall of 2018. The NPCs we've been running are showing an EFC of around $30,000. I thought that was pretty good as we have a decent income and I wasn't expecting anything. However, in a conversation with my accountant, he mentioned something about most people with income over $70,000 won't get any FA. Shortly afterwards, I read something on College Confidential that households with income greater than $100,000 don't get anything. Now we are definitely over that, so what's up with the EFCs we're getting? Am I not to trust those numbers? For those of you who already have kids in college, did the NPCs align with reality when your kids were admitted? Also, as I can't fill out the FAFSA form yet, how did that compare to any EFCs you received from the colleges? TIA for any perspective on this for those who have BTDT.

[catz]

Following. I've heard schools can be generous with incomes up to 200 k depending in the school. I can't imagine why it would be a good idea for NPCs to be giving out wildly inaccurate info. We are in a very similar boat in terms of EFC so I'd love to hear real life experiences.

[8filltheheart]

I'm getting a bit nervous regarding financial aid potential for my dd, who will be entering college in fall of 2018. The NPCs we've been running are showing an EFC of around $30,000. I thought that was pretty good as we have a decent income and I wasn't expecting anything. However, in a conversation with my accountant, he mentioned something about most people with income over $70,000 won't get any FA. Shortly afterwards, I read something on College Confidential that households with income greater than $100,000 don't get anything. Now we are definitely over that, so what's up with the EFCs we're getting? Am I not to trust those numbers? For those of you who already have kids in college, did the NPCs align with reality when your kids were admitted? Also, as I can't fill out the FAFSA form yet, how did that compare to any EFCs you received from the colleges? TIA for any perspective on this for those who have BTDT.

 

Your accountant is incorrect.  Families with incomes over $70,000 typically do not qualify for Pell grants. That is the main federal FA outside of federal student loans.

 

Depending on the school, institutional grants MAY be offered to families whose incomes are over $100,000 (depends on the assets as well.)  I think the avg cut-off for institutional grants at the most generous schools is $180,000.  But, not all schools offer grants and not all schools are that generous.

 

If the NPC asks a lot of questions about income, assets, etc, the numbers are probably close.  If they only ask a few questions, probably not.  

 

Do NOT use any number generated by FAFSA as at all meaningful.  Need is typically determined by institution specific calculations.  The CSS Profile will determine your family's expected contribution at most schools that offer institutional grants.

 

FWIW, our aid packages that have been built around institutional grants have been both higher and lower than NPCs but within a few thousand.   Merit, otoh, can completely alter the expected contribution at SOME schools.  Other schools will not let the parental contribution to be lowered at all.

[teachermom2834]

I think sometimes when people say "no aid" they mean no federal aid. There is a lot of confusion about different terms when discussing financial aid, loans, and scholarships.

 

I would tend to believe the NPC for the individual schools. It depends what schools you are talking about. Some very prestigious schools will give literally no aid. They don't need to. Other schools I believe have grossly inflated their tuition and no one pays full price. We toured a college with my oldest ds where he was told by both the admissions rep and the coach of his sport to not pay attention to the tuition number. We were told that there was not a single student on campus paying full price.

 

Another local private school gave a student we know with very low test scores and grades a $20,000 scholarship. I am of the belief that school also does not actually charge the tuition they post.

 

Schools can call it grants or scholarships or tuition discounts but most schools will not be charging most students the full sticker price with no reduction. But again- it really depends on how competitive the schools are you are targeting.

 

Most people cannot afford $30,000 a year so the nominal $20,000 off a $55,000 bill feels like no aid. If you are in the position to pay that much I bet you will have great options. But like everyone at every EFC point you will have to do your research and be informed and probably looks for schools that give merit aid without regard to finances.

[Pawz4me]

We found the NPCs to be pretty darn accurate. Basically we're full pay at our state universities (not known for merit aid except for the very tippy top students) and happy about that as full COA is much less than our EFC. Private schools depended on ranking. The tip top ones that DS21 was admitted to met need, which in our case amounted to knocking off a couple of thousand (maybe) and offering unsubsidized loans. DS18 applied to some not tippy top privates and was offered enough merit aid and grants that COA would have been very competitive with in state publics.

[creekland]

NPCs were only around for my youngest, but then it proved quite accurate for his school.

 

Our EFC has also been accurate - more or less.  Some went a little higher.  One went way higher (Furman) so hit the circular file as soon as the aid decision arrived.  The two schools my boys went to were pretty darn accurate though - and that's with hubby owning his own business.

[Julie of KY]

I agree with the above. I find that the NPC are pretty accurate for need-based aid and automatic scholarships. Your actual cost may be very different if you also get merit scholarships.

 

The EFC from the FAFSA is a number that may or may not have any bearing on what individual schools do. The FAFSA determines if you get federal aid. 

 

One thing I found as I played with some NPCs is that some schools will give you need based money and then add more automatic merit based on ACT etc. Others schools as your ACT increases they give you more merit while decreasing the need based so that your cost of attendance does not change.

 

 

[JeanM]

For the schools that accepted my ds last year, the NPCs were pretty accurate. I really think your accountant is incorrect in saying that most people with income over $70K won't get aid.

[GoodGrief]

I have heard that the NPCs can sometimes be inaccurate when you are running a business (that was not our situation, so cannot speak personally to that aspect, though I do know people who had issues.) Each college calculates things a little differently (sometimes significantly differently), and has varying amounts of merit money, so running the individual NPCs provide a better picture than assuming that the award would be similar at different institutions.

 

 

[whitestavern]

Thank you. You all are making me feel much better! I'm assuming we will NOT be eligible for any federal money. I thought the way it worked was that FAFSA came up with an EFC and that's what the colleges used as well. But it looks like although the colleges can take the FAFSA into account, they will often give more FA (as indicated by the NFCs I've run). We are straightforward as far as the application, not self employed, no vacation property, no divorce, etc., so hoping the numbers are pretty accurate.

Edited September 19, 2017 by whitestavern

[8filltheheart]

Thank you. You all are making me feel much better! I'm assuming we will NOT be eligible for any federal money. I thought the way it worked was that FAFSA came up with an EFC and that's what the colleges used as well. But it looks like although the colleges can take the FAFSA into account, they will often give more FA (as indicated by the NFCs I've run). We are straightforward as far as the application, not self employed, no vacation property, no divorce, etc., so hoping the numbers are pretty accurate.

 

This is inaccurate understanding.  FAFSA is a gov't tool that is used to determin Pell grant eligibility.  Other aid is going to be institutional grants, scholarships, or federal student loans ($5500 max freshman yr with a max of $3500 subsidized....we have never qualified for subsidized loans), or other loans.

 

Schools that offer additional aid toward meeting need usually require the CSS Profile to be filled out (or their own supplement).  That is what they use to determine the parental contribution, student contribuion, and school aid.   Sometimes a FA package is full of loans but that is supposedly bringing down your costs.  NEVER look at the line where they list your cost.  "Your cost" never includes loans as if somehow loans don't have to be paid back.  Whenever I give college application talks, I always pull up NPC and highlight how the price is camaflouged in among the different "contributions." 

[Hoggirl]

I'm just throwing this in for others who might be reading: it is not only your income that comes into play but also the assets that you have. This includes savings, though I believe retirement funds are excluded. Financial aid isn't solely income-based. If you have savings, it is expected that some of those will be used for college costs. Some schools consider home equity, some do not.

[Pawz4me]

I'm just throwing this in for others who might be reading: it is not only your income that comes into play but also the assets that you have. This includes savings, though I believe retirement funds are excluded. Financial aid isn't solely income-based. If you have savings, it is expected that some of those will be used for college costs. Some schools consider home equity, some do not.

 

 

^^This.^^

 

My mother passed away when DS21 was a junior in high school. The inheritance did unbelievable things to our already high EFC.

[GoodGrief]

I'm just throwing this in for others who might be reading: it is not only your income that comes into play but also the assets that you have. This includes savings, though I believe retirement funds are excluded. Financial aid isn't solely income-based. If you have savings, it is expected that some of those will be used for college costs. Some schools consider home equity, some do not.

 

Some schools will even ask about the sort of cars you drive.

[goldberry]

I was pretty disillusioned with the whole process, because in my mind unsubsidized loans are not really much help.  Look at this paper where we say we are meeting your need!  Sure it's a student loan AND a parent loan, but the number is zero at the bottom! :glare:  

 

DD did get the maximum automatic merit amount.  We ended up paying very close to our EFC after all was said and done.

Edited September 20, 2017 by goldberry

[snowbeltmom]

I was pretty disillusioned with the whole process, because in my mind unsubsidized loans are not really much help.  Look at this paper where we say we are meeting your need!  Sure it's a student loan AND a parent loan, but the number is zero at the bottom! :glare:  

 

DD did get the maximum automatic merit amount.  We ended up paying very close to our EFC after all was said and done.

 

:iagree:

I don't consider a loan "meeting need" , but many FA officers disagree with me. You can look at each school's CDS to get an idea of how much of the determined need is met with loans (gee thanks for nothing) vs grants (which don't have to be repaid).

 

As others have already said, the EFC can vary drastically from school to school, so if you have a "typical tax return - i.e. do not own your own business, rental property, etc. ", it is a good idea to run the NPC for each college on your list. 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by snowbeltmom

[JanetC]

Apply to places where the NPCs are encouraging, but if you can pay 30K, you should be able to find an in state public safety school where your child can attend if the NPCs were inaccurate in your situation.

 

Annual lesson in financial aid terminology:

 

Net prices vary from school to school.

 

Your EFC as returned by the FAFSA is a constant. (You also have an IM EFC if you do the CSS, but they don't tell it to you. You can estimate it on the college board EFC Estimator.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

We found that to be true only for federal aid.  At state universities we were full ticket except for Chapel Hill because dd had an academic scholarship.  We were offered substantial aid at private universities that met full need. Private schools that didn't meet full need were hit and miss depending on academic offerings.  DD was offered the highest scholarship at one private school (full tuition), but it was still more expensive than some of our full need met schools.

[G5052]

Don't get discouraged. Every school is a little different. You may indeed not qualify for need-based aid, but there is other aid out there.

 

We didn't qualify for any need-based aid. My oldest got very little merit aid at the 4-years despite a strong application, and in the end he decided on the community college because he wasn't sure of his major. He ended up with merit aid there which covered over 1/2 of his costs. "Everyone" told me that merit aid was a long shot, but he got it. 

 

Now likely we'll qualify for need-based in 2018-2019 because of a large drop in household income, so I'm curious to see how that shakes out. My oldest is commuting to a state 4-year, and my younger one is at the local community college, so our college expenses aren't bad but are still a factor.

Edited September 29, 2017 by G5052

[katilac]

  We were told that there was not a single student on campus paying full price.

 

Another local private school gave a student we know with very low test scores and grades a $20,000 scholarship. I am of the belief that school also does not actually charge the tuition they post.

 

Yes, paying for college is now like buying a new car. No one pays sticker price. 

 

I'm just throwing this in for others who might be reading: it is not only your income that comes into play but also the assets that you have. This includes savings, though I believe retirement funds are excluded. Financial aid isn't solely income-based. If you have savings, it is expected that some of those will be used for college costs. Some schools consider home equity, some do not.

 

For schools that rely on FASFA, retirement funds and and your primary residence are excluded, and a certain percentage of your savings are shielded. CSS schools are honey badgers, they do what they want. 

 

Some schools will even ask about the sort of cars you drive.

 

This is because some people would  pay cash for a new luxury car in order to lower their savings. Or they will truly not have savings, but it's because they have luxury cars and houses and vacation homes. If you have the income, it's your tough luck if you didn't save. 

[katilac]

 

We didn't qualify for any need-based aid. My oldest got very little merit aid at the 4-years despite a strong application, and in the end he decided on the community college because he wasn't sure of his major. He ended up with merit aid there which covered over 1/2 of his costs. "Everyone" told me that merit aid was a long shot, but he got it. 

 

 

 

"Everyone" may well have been right. Merit aid was a long shot at the CC, but your oldest had a strong application for a 4-year university, so that likely put him right at the top of contenders. Always take the long shot! 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes, paying for college is now like buying a new car. No one pays sticker price. 

 

 

For schools that rely on FASFA, retirement funds and and your primary residence are excluded, and a certain percentage of your savings are shielded. CSS schools are honey badgers, they do what they want. 

 

 

This is because some people would  pay cash for a new luxury car in order to lower their savings. Or they will truly not have savings, but it's because they have luxury cars and houses and vacation homes. If you have the income, it's your tough luck if you didn't save. 

 

I think it can also help in the reverse.  We have a high amount of savings for our income.  We also have cars that are 7-10 years old and are standard models.  We own a house, but its value would be about a down payment for a typical house in the areas where we actually live.  

 

That said, completing the CSS/Profile left me feeling unclean.

[katilac]

I think it can also help in the reverse.  We have a high amount of savings for our income.  We also have cars that are 7-10 years old and are standard models.  We own a house, but its value would be about a down payment for a typical house in the areas where we actually live.  

 

That said, completing the CSS/Profile left me feeling unclean.

 

Very much so, it can definitely help in the reverse. 

 

I am SO glad we didn't have to do CSS! 

[TravelingChris]

Yes, it definitely helped in return I think. Our truck was bought new but in 2001 (and caused me to get a headache to try to find our purchase price).  The other cars were bought used and not just a little used either. We had little equity in our home too.  We didn't own a vacation home.