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Patty Joanna

This was a little disturbing...a couple today in grocery store...

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When my now 30 year old dd was about 5, we were at a large mall in Atlanta and she saw a teen guy with a collar and a girl was 'walking' him. She pointed and laughed and we were caught off guard...do we fuss at dd? Because yeah, she was a kid and genuinely thought it was funny. The teens didn't laugh but I don't think it was anything other than teens trying to get attention. 

 

But I'm not sure what to think about what you saw today. Odd for sure. 

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The walking a woman on a leash in public is ALL about humiliating her. Full stop.

 

If a person submits to being publicly humiliated, do you not think there is something amiss?

 

That women "consent" to their own abuse is well understood. I know that's a bummer for people who are into BDSM. But theyre open to that critisism when they INVOLVE THE PUBLIC INCLUDING CHILDREN (and hey! Other victims of violence but who cares...) IN THEIR PRIVATE BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS KINK

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Nope, nothing inherently sexual or sexually deviant about a leash necklace.

Leash necklace. Are for real?! The *collar* was attached to a leach. Around a neck. To be yanked on.

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I'm going to say one thing, and then I'll be quiet.

 

That article is about as far from ACTUAL BDSM it's silly. It's a bit like calling Warren Jeffs or Westboro Baptist "mainstream christianity"

 

And I say that as someone who is VERY familiar with proper respectful safe BDSM practices. Look up SSC or RACK. Consent is HUGE is BDSM. That article Tries to make a mockery of consent. And just as with any other community or group of people, there are abusive folks. They usually get weeded out very quickly.

 

And yes, one can consent to things that can look like abuse, to those who are not involved. Are they? not in the slightest. There's a huge difference between a pre-negotiated session with hard limits that are respected vs. an abusive spouse where you don't have a clue what they'll do next. HUGE difference.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

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Leash necklace. Are for real?! The *collar* was attached to a leach. Around a neck. To be yanked on.

That's not actually the intent with most collars and leads, assuming this wasn't an abusive relationship. This is something I am extremely familiar with and there's a whole lot of assumptions about people's dynamics and intent going on that reality doesn't bear out. Edited by Arctic Mama
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I'm not thumbs upping it. It isn't a choice I would make, but I am VERY much a Not My Monkeys, Not My Circus type person. If they are consenting adults, they can do whatever the heck they want. I don't care. If it isn't consensual, it's wrong in every way.

 

It isn't about dignity. It's about minding my own business and letting adults live their lives as they see fit.

They are involving the public. Without consent.

 

And what is UP with y'all acting like if you saw an adult walking a child on a leash BY THE NECK you'd be like welp nbd nbd nbd

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That's not actually the intent with most collars and leads, assuming this wasn't an abusive relationship.

The collar and lead is *evidence* of an abusive relationship.

 

This is madness.

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They are involving the public. Without consent.

 

And what is UP with y'all acting like if you saw an adult walking a child on a leash BY THE NECK you'd be like welp nbd nbd nbd

An adult and a child are different. And the relationship dynamic is different. The ladies and gents I know who wear collars, public or not? It's closer to a wedding ring or security blanket than a punishment.

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The collar and lead is *evidence* of an abusive relationship.

 

This is madness.

It's really not. Why do you get to define what is and isn't abusive for their relationship? That's quite the armchair quarterbacking on something you don't seem to have much personal experience with.

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It's really not. Why do you get to define what is and isn't abusive for their relationship? That's quite the armchair quarterbacking on something you don't seem to have much personal experience with.

Don't you dare assume you know what others have experience with.

 

I am aghast and agog that so many people here are all whatever about a man walking a woman on a leash like a dog in a flaming grocery store.

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Don't you dare assume you know what others have experience with.

 

I am aghast and agog that so many people here are all whatever about a man walking a woman on a leash like a dog in a flaming grocery store.

Given your jump to abuse? You're not personally involved in either a relationship or the scene, neither of which involve any sort of abuse, lack of consent, or denigration of anyone's worth or value. Yeah, I say that with confidence. Edited by Arctic Mama
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This is a bdsm thing and some people (mutually) choose this lifestyle. It's not for me but as long as they're both grown up, ehhh ... 

 

Exactly.

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What in the WORLD?

 

I might have said something, waited for John Quinones to show up, and then gone home with a black eye or something.  

 

As my 7th grade teacher was fond of saying, This world is going to hell in a handbasket.   

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I'm going to say one thing, and then I'll be quiet.  

 

That article is about as far from ACTUAL BDSM it's silly. It's a bit like calling Warren Jeffs or Westboro Baptist "mainstream christianity"

 

 

 

AGREED.   I couldn't even read all of the article because it was ridiculous. Not going to get into specifics but I know enough about BDSM to know that what was just described in that article wasn't it. Not anymore than rape is the same as consensual sex. Just...no.

 

And it is nothing about women or feminism...women can be "tops" and men can be "bottoms" and switches are probably more common than either. Or there can be two men, two women, etc. It's nothing about patriarchy. 

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This is what happens when porn culture + choice "feminism" have a baby.

 

Women who think it's cool for other women to be leashed. 

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This is what happens when porn culture + choice "feminism" have a baby.

 

Women who think it's cool for other women to be leashed.

I'm not a feminist and we consume no porn. Nice try though. This is one of those 'you get it or you don't' things, but broad brushes from the outside are rarely accurate. Edited by Arctic Mama
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The collar and lead is *evidence* of an abusive relationship.

 

This is madness.

 

No, no it isn't. Just because you don't understand something, doesn't make it "madness," and what is really dangerous is thinking that you get to decide an entire relationship is abusive based off witnessing one minute of another's life. 

Edited by AimeeM
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I'm not a feminist and we consume no porn. Nice try though. This is one of those 'you get it or you don't' things, but broad brushes from the outside are rarely accurate.

 

The 'meh' attitude comes from a society which normalises porn, and emphasises individual choice as king. 

 

The individual contexts that lead to the conflation of eroticism with abuse in any given relationship will vary.

Edited by StellaM
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If you don't want to be in a relationship that includes BDSM, then don't. But you don't get to tell other people that their relationship is abusive.

 

I'm not crazy about the leash in the grocery store, because there are people who are involved in the "scene" who have not consented. Consent should be and is a BIG deal in BDSM.

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AGREED.   I couldn't even read all of the article because it was ridiculous. Not going to get into specifics but I know enough about BDSM to know that what was just described in that article wasn't it. Not anymore than rape is the same as consensual sex. Just...no.

 

And it is nothing about women or feminism...women can be "tops" and men can be "bottoms" and switches are probably more common than either. Or there can be two men, two women, etc. It's nothing about patriarchy. 

 

Agreed. And that's not even going into things like Poly relationships with those dynamics in play....those are even more interesting. 

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This is what happens when porn culture + choice "feminism" have a baby.

 

Women who think it's cool for other women to be leashed. 

 

I'm wondering if as many people would be as upset if it was a man in the collar and a woman holding the leash?

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I wonder what modern slaves or the ancestors of slaves think about Western people making a fetish out of slave collars?

Edited by StellaM
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I'm wondering if as many people would be as upset if it was a man in the collar and a woman holding the leash?

 

Yes, absolutely. It's dehumanizing. I already said I would be disturbed to see a man leashed in public.

 

 

Edited by StellaM
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I'm wondering if as many people would be as upset if it was a man in the collar and a woman holding the leash?

 

I would.

 

I don't really care what is consensual and what isn't.  I think there are things that decent people don't do to other people and enslavement is one of them.  What if someone had a thing for someone who was mentally developmentally slow (what is the right word?).  Would it be acceptable to you for one person to pretend to be that way in public, for the mutual enjoyment of both parties?  Well, I think AT THE VERY LEAST, the pretending to hold one person in the custody of another IN PUBLIC is absolutely not acceptable, and is incredibly offensive in so many ways.  Let alone in a relationship, which I find awful, but whatever, I guess.

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And I am one who would have immediately called the police, and detained the couple until their arrival.  With all my 6 kids, with no hesitation.  I would have been all over that situation in a second.  

 

Maybe it's consensual.  I still find it wrong on so many levels.  But that is a question for the police to sort out.  I would not walk away wondering if that girl were being trafficked.  Absolutely would not.  

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The 'meh' attitude comes from a society which normalises porn, and emphasises individual choice as king.

 

The individual contexts that lead to the conflation of eroticism with abuse in any given relationship will vary.

Agreed.

 

I guess this is just something I am going to be happy I don't understand. My issue with this isn't the two consensual adults doing their thing, what bothers me is people are not created in a vaccuum. They are raised with varying levels of exposure to parenting, abuse, love, and so forth. Our desire gets tied closely to events without us realizing it young in life. My big question is not is this guy abusive. I am sure he is following exactly what GF wants. My question is why does he find this desirable to begin with? Why does she? What is appealing for her about being submissive and what is appealing to him about wanting to be in complete control? Some life events on both sides lead to this mash up. It is THAT that intrigues me and causes me to scratch my head.

 

50 Shades of Grey also helped a whole generation see this as a viable option.

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Kids pretending to be dogs is a lot different than adults pretending to be slaves.

 

Um, I was sharing because it was funny.  And it was DH pretending to be a dog, FTR.

 

There are, in reality, TONS of things in public that I find offensive (abusive parents, as has been mentioned, to be only one.)  And yes, all those things that people choose to do/say/act out in public are "inflicted" on me and/or my child without my consent.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that THIS is what is getting people in an uproar. Madness, the world going to hell, etc.... really, over this? Over two consenting adults. It goes along with my personal theory that people freak out over sexual connotations much more so than anything else, when so many other things have much more serious implications.

 

Edited by goldberry
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And I am one who would have immediately called the police, and detained the couple until their arrival. With all my 6 kids, with no hesitation. I would have been all over that situation in a second.

 

Maybe it's consensual. I still find it wrong on so many levels. But that is a question for the police to sort out. I would not walk away wondering if that girl were being trafficked. Absolutely would not.

I'm fairly certain a criminal would try to be more subtle.

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And I am one who would have immediately called the police, and detained the couple until their arrival.  

 

??? :confused1:  You would detain two adults? Just how would you go about that? And suppose they laughed at you and walked away?

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And I am one who would have immediately called the police, and detained the couple until their arrival.  

 

I can only imagine the police's response to this.

 

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??? :confused1: You would detain two adults? Just how would you go about that? And suppose they laughed at you and walked away?

Or have you charged with a crime?? Even sweet little homeschool moms aren't allowed to randomly detain adults.

Edited by Moxie
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No, you can't just detain people, even those who disturb you greatly. In any case, this isn't about the law, it's about cultural ethics and values.

 

 

Edited by StellaM
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It's really not. Why do you get to define what is and isn't abusive for their relationship? That's quite the armchair quarterbacking on something you don't seem to have much personal experience with.

Then do it AT HOME! If she 'consents' to being slapped around for fun, and they do it in public, will you call the police?

 

I know we're all supposed to not kink shame or whatever but seriously, have some discretion.

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If a kid asked, I would say they were just playing a game, because that's what was likely going on...BDSM play. As long as they weren't doing anything explicitly sexual, who cares?

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Why? Serious question, what's so sick about it?

 

It's the slavery image. I don't think it's respectful at all to women, or to anyone else. 

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Explicitly sexual? How about, I don't consent to being an extra in their 'play.' If you need public humiliation and shock value as part of your loving, egalitarian relationship then... sorry I got nothing. Smh.

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Agreed.

 

I guess this is just something I am going to be happy I don't understand. My issue with this isn't the two consensual adults doing their thing, what bothers me is people are not created in a vaccuum. They are raised with varying levels of exposure to parenting, abuse, love, and so forth. Our desire gets tied closely to events without us realizing it young in life. My big question is not is this guy abusive. I am sure he is following exactly what GF wants. My question is why does he find this desirable to begin with? Why does she? What is appealing for her about being submissive and what is appealing to him about wanting to be in complete control? Some life events on both sides lead to this mash up. It is THAT that intrigues me and causes me to scratch my head.

 

50 Shades of Grey also helped a whole generation see this as a viable option.

 

This was the point being made in the article I linked about consent. That consent doesn't exist in a vacuum; we are not agents of pure free will, unaffected by our individual life experiences and the larger cultures around us.

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The more I think about the outrage here the more I am in awe.  People defend the right of white supremacists, misogynists, etc to free speech and open platforms (and maybe rightfully so) EVEN THOUGH those people are actively wishing harm upon entire other groups of people.  Free country, right?  I had to see people wearing Trump that Bitch tshirts at the grocery store....and yes, there are CHILDREN at the grocery store!  Free speech, by God!

 

But two consenting adults who are not harming or seeking to harm ANYONE else... we can't have that, that's madness! 

 

Yep, I'm in awe.  There's a reason why things are going to hell, but it sure isn't consensual BDSM couples...

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Explicitly sexual? How about, I don't consent to being an extra in their 'play.' If you need public humiliation and shock value as part of your loving, egalitarian relationship then... sorry I got nothing. Smh.

 

This.

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The more I think about the outrage here the more I am in awe.  People defend the right of white supremacists, misogynists, etc to free speech and open platforms (and maybe rightfully so) EVEN THOUGH those people are actively wishing harm upon entire other groups of people.  Free country, right?  I had to see people wearing Trump that Bitch tshirts at the grocery store....and yes, there are CHILDREN at the grocery store!  Free speech, by God!

 

But two consenting adults who are not harming or seeking to harm ANYONE else... we can't have that, that's madness! 

 

Yep, I'm in awe.  There's a reason why things are going to hell, but it sure isn't consensual BDSM couples...

 

Um. This is very confused. Plenty of us who find the image of a leashed woman disturbing are not out there defending the rights of white supremacists. 

 

One can fight on many fronts. 

Edited by StellaM
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  The person on the leash wants someone to have control for whatever reason they wish.  So it's for their own good.

 

 

I would never assume that this is true, ever. Additionally, wanting/needing someone else to have that level of control over your body is not healthy. I can't even imagine a scenario where that want/need would be considered healthy. 

Edited by TechWife
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Um. This is very confused. Plenty of us who find the image of a leashed woman disturbing are not out there defending the rights of white supremacists.

 

There are people here saying it should be illegal for this couple to be out at the grocery store.  That the police should be called. 

 

The level of outrage here is.... madness.

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