Confident, with anxiety

[J-rap]

Anyone have experience with this?

 

I've been trying to analyze a couple of my (adult) children, and this is the conclusion I'm coming to.  It's hard for me to understand.

 

I'm married to a man who is very unusual.  He is always confident, in every situation.  He has never been nervous (probably ever, in his life).  He can stand in front of a crowd of 5,000, and it's the same as talking to one person.  He believes everything is possible.  He has huge visions.  Everyone can tell him it won't work, but he attempts it anyway.  It doesn't even occur to him that he should be nervous or worried.  (Just to be clear, he is also humble and doesn't like to be the center of attention.  He just likes getting things done, is very ambitious, and is very confident.)

 

I'm shy, though I'm fairly confident in my shyness.  I don't have much anxiety myself, but I have family members who are generally quite shy and also have pretty extreme social and other anxiety.  (I mean, my family of origin.)

 

Most of my kids are extremely confident.  Several of them are in the public eye, have big visions, and don't have any problem at all talking to a big crowd, going to events alone and meeting people, speaking their opinion.  But I'm slowly realizing, now that they are young adults in their 20's, that at least a couple of them also have pretty extreme anxiety within their confidence.  It's a hard thing to grasp.  How can two opposite traits exist together?  It's becoming a problem.

 

I trace this to their genetic pool.  Two very different brain-types coming together.  

 

Or, maybe what I have labeled as confidence, is more of a state of obliviousness.

 

I don't know what I'm asking here.  Just brainstorming I guess.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by J-rap

[wintermom]

I'd say that it's completely normal to be confident and still have anxiety in certain circumstances. Anxiety can also be described as heightened awareness or "fight and flight" response. I've heard some very confident musicians say that they always get anxious before a performance, and when they start playing the anxiety leaves. They appreciate it as it tells them that the performance is meaningful to them and they want to do their very best. Athletes also deal with performance anxiety.

[Pawz4me]

I don't believe anxiety and confidence are opposite traits. One can be quite confident and still tend to be anxious.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Pawz4me

[J-rap]

I don't believe anxiety and confidence are opposite traits. In fact I think they really aren't very closely related. 

 

That's interesting.  So kind of like comparing numbers to letters.

[Arcadia]

Having presented many speakers in my previous jobs, I know plenty of very confident speakers and managers with cold clammy hands before their speech at a podium or board meetings.

Sportsmen and Orchestra players have anxiety too but usually get absorbed in what they are doing once they start the activity. A friend who is a competitive athelete on scholarship looks confident but has anxiety. Confidence and anxiety definitely can coexist. Add in perfectionism and it gets even more interesting.

 

I do have an uncle who is charismatic and oblivious. He is also very kind hearted and would help anyone who ask. However he is really oblivious to the extent his siblings have to explicitly tell him stuff sometimes.

[forty-two]

"Confident, with anxiety" - yeah, that's a good description of me. And "confidence going hand-in-hand with a state of obliviousness" - absolutely. The collision of two brain types might even apply, too - my dad is similar-sounding to your dh (only not necessarily so ambitious - his is a much more low-key kind of drivenness, if that makes any sense), and my mom *does* have anxiety issues (she's actually more driven than my dad, and some of that drive is anxiety-prompted, to ensure she has every base covered).

 

Anyway, I'd say my default state is confident, and the anxiety crops up when I have time to think about it, or in situations that have always been anxiety-provoking (used to have wicked social anxiety as a kid, majorly impacted my life; I've kind of reached an uneasy truce with it now). And the obliviousness comes into play because there I don't know what there is to be worried about, and so no matter how much time I have to think, I'm never going to come up with *those* things to worry about. (As I became more aware of emotions (both mine and others), my anxiety started spilling over into previously-confident areas, because I was both more aware of *my* already-existing (but previously ignored) anxious feelings and I was more aware of what others might feel about me (and so could start worrying about it).)

 

So I have quite a history of confidently throwing myself into things, only to start panicking when I've time to think about it and the enormity of what I've undertaken becomes clear. Used to be that my confidence and determination to succeed would generally overcome anxious panicking, and I'd panic a bit and then plow through. But I crashed and burned badly in college, failed all over the place, which seriously bruised my confidence, and for a long time I just kind of assumed I'd fail and gave up at the first hint of anxiety. I still default react to stress with an anxiety-driven urge to run and hide and wait for it to go away, but I'm trying to get better about doing hard things and resisting the anxiety and refusing to hide and instead pushing through.

 

I have no idea where I'm going with this anymore ;) - but, yeah, ITU confidence with anxiety, as paradoxical as it seems.

[J-rap]

Having presented many speakers in my previous jobs, I know plenty of very confident speakers and managers with cold clammy hands before their speech at a podium or board meetings.

Sportsmen and Orchestra players have anxiety too but usually get absorbed in what they are doing once they start the activity. A friend who is a competitive athelete on scholarship looks confident but has anxiety. Confidence and anxiety definitely can coexist. Add in perfectionism and it gets even more interesting.

 

I do have an uncle who is charismatic and oblivious. He is also very kind hearted and would help anyone who ask. However he is really oblivious to the extent his siblings have to explicitly tell him stuff sometimes.

 

Yes, perfectionism definitely plays a part in it.  And very active analytical skills.

[happi duck]

Agreeing with others...

Being confident does not mean never having butterflies or sweaty palms or a racing heart.

 

Also, diagnosed Anxiety isn't the opposite of confidence. I'm a confident person who *loves* public speaking and I have Panic Disorder.

[J-rap]

"Confident, with anxiety" - yeah, that's a good description of me. And "confidence going hand-in-hand with a state of obliviousness" - absolutely. The collision of two brain types might even apply, too - my dad is similar-sounding to your dh (only not necessarily so ambitious - his is a much more low-key kind of drivenness, if that makes any sense), and my mom *does* have anxiety issues (she's actually more driven than my dad, and some of that drive is anxiety-prompted, to ensure she has every base covered).

 

Anyway, I'd say my default state is confident, and the anxiety crops up when I have time to think about it, or in situations that have always been anxiety-provoking (used to have wicked social anxiety as a kid, majorly impacted my life; I've kind of reached an uneasy truce with it now). And the obliviousness comes into play because there I don't know what there is to be worried about, and so no matter how much time I have to think, I'm never going to come up with *those* things to worry about. (As I became more aware of emotions (both mine and others), my anxiety started spilling over into previously-confident areas, because I was both more aware of *my* already-existing (but previously ignored) anxious feelings and I was more aware of what others might feel about me (and so could start worrying about it).)

 

So I have quite a history of confidently throwing myself into things, only to start panicking when I've time to think about it and the enormity of what I've undertaken becomes clear. Used to be that my confidence and determination to succeed would generally overcome anxious panicking, and I'd panic a bit and then plow through. But I crashed and burned badly in college, failed all over the place, which seriously bruised my confidence, and for a long time I just kind of assumed I'd fail and gave up at the first hint of anxiety. I still default react to stress with an anxiety-driven urge to run and hide and wait for it to go away, but I'm trying to get better about doing hard things and resisting the anxiety and refusing to hide and instead pushing through.

 

I have no idea where I'm going with this anymore ;) - but, yeah, ITU confidence with anxiety, as paradoxical as it seems.

Thanks, I really appreciate your input.  It's interesting that the anxiety part becomes more noticeable and impactful when college-aged (early 20's or so).  That's how it is playing out with a couple of my kids too.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have both.

 

I have always had both.

 

I look at it like, if I can hide and rise above my dread, I can get this stuff done.  I have done that my whole life, and I thought everyone did it until the last few years.  I didn't even realize that the sick dread I get is anxiety.  I figured that if I could control it enough to act in spite of it, that it wasn't really anxiety.  But it is.  So I have it, I hide it, and I move the heck ON.  I mean, I'm a city girl.  I grew up in San Francisco, where looking like you are a bad ass is how you hopefully avoid being mugged.  I know how to put my head up and bristle and strut.

 

I took a public speaking seminar in the early 80s where we were filmed, and I remember how consoling it was to watch the movie.  I had been terrified, clammy hands, shaking a little, gnawing stomach, terrified, but I was wearing a suit with shoulder pads and I was able to control my voice so that it was not shaking, and I looked like I was confident.  That was such a relief, to know that I could fake it effectively--and I've done that ever since, with increasing confidence.  But I never get up in front of a group without at least a little trepidation.

 

Having said that, (OK, this is going to get weird.  I am SO not like this.  Not the kind of person who always talks about how God is finding her His favorite parking space because she asked for favor.  Not even remotely a believer in a prosperity so-called gospel.  But I can't deny this experience, and maybe talking about it will help someone else.)  ...

 

Around the beginning of last year I sort of 'tuned in' to all the places in the Bible where God or His angel says, "Be not afraid," or "Fear not."  And one time when I was feeling that sick dread I said, "God says, 'Be not afraid'."  And the feeling of dread left immediately.  I was still facing something frightening, but I did not feel frightened anymore.  That has happened over and over since then, literally every time I felt dread, even when I was alone in a remote cabin and a light flicked on, seeming like there was an intruder downstairs.  I am amazed by this.  It is impossible to overstate what a change this is for me.  Praise to God for this miraculous deliverance.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[wintermom]

 

Or, maybe what I have labeled as confidence, it's more of a state of obliviousness.

 

 

Confidence can also be a state of mind effected by one's level of preparedness. If a person has put in the time and energy to practice, research, work or train in a meaningful way prior to a performance or situation, then they will probably feel more confident. And most certainly they'll have a better chance of success in the situation.

 

I remember one track athlete talking about her self-talk before a race as being, "Trust the training."  So she'd have to have a quality trainer/coach that they trusted and put in the time to train correctly all prior to the performance. 

[J-rap]

I have both.

 

I have always had both.

 

I look at it like, if I can hide my dread, I can get this stuff done.  I have done that my whole life, and I thought everyone did it until the last few years.  I didn't even realize that the sick dread I get is anxiety.  I figured that if I could control it enough to act in spite of it, that it wasn't really anxiety.  But it is.  So I have it, I hide it, and I move the heck ON.  I mean, I'm a city girl.  I grew up in San Francisco, where looking like you are a bad ass is how you hopefully avoid being mugged.  I know how to put my head up and bristle and strut.

 

I took a public speaking seminar in the early 80s where we were filmed, and I remember how consoling it was to watch the movie.  I had been terrified, clammy hands, shaking a little, gnawing stomach, terrified, but I was wearing a suit with shoulder pads and I was able to control my voice so that it was not shaking, and I looked like I was confident.  That was such a relief, to know that I could fake it effectively--and I've done that ever since, with increasing confidence.  But I never get up in front of a group without at least a little trepidation.

 

Having said that, (OK, this is going to get weird.  I am SO not like this.  Not the kind of person who always talks about how God is finding her His favorite parking space because she asked for favor.  Not even remotely a believer in a prosperity so-called gospel.  But I can't deny this experience, and maybe talking about it will help someone else.)  ...

 

Around the beginning of last year I sort of 'tuned in' to all the places in the Bible where God or His angel says, "Be not afraid," or "Fear not."  And one time when I was feeling that sick dread I said, "God says, 'Be not afraid'."  And the feeling of dread left immediately.  I was still facing something frightening, but I did not feel frightened anymore.  That has happened over and over since then, literally every time I felt dread, even when I was alone in a remote cabin and a light flicked on, seeming like there was an intruder downstairs.  I am amazed by this.  It is impossible to overstate what a change this is for me.  Praise to God for this miraculous deliverance.

Very cool.  Thanks for sharing.

[J-rap]

Confidence can also be a state of mind effected by one's level of preparedness. If a person has put in the time and energy to practice, research, work or train in a meaningful way prior to a performance or situation, then they will probably feel more confident. And most certainly they'll have a better chance of success in the situation.

 

I remember one track athlete talking about her self-talk before a race as being, "Trust the training."  So she'd have to have a quality trainer/coach that they trusted and put in the time to train correctly all prior to the performance. 

 

Very enlightening. One of my "extremely confident" children researches things until every stone is turned.

[Pawz4me]

That's interesting.  So kind of like comparing numbers to letters.

 

I edited before you quoted because I realized what I'd originally typed didn't really make sense.

 

This is what I meant for me personally --

 

In general I'm a very confident person, especially as long as there is something concrete/constructive that can be done about a given situation. I have no problem talking with strangers, etc.

 

But I often tend to be quite anxious about things that are out of my control (health issues, etc.).

 

So confidence and anxiety aren't mutually exclusive within the same person. I think we humans are way more complex than that!

[J-rap]

I edited before you quoted because I realized what I'd originally typed didn't really make sense.

 

This is what I meant for me personally --

 

In general I'm a very confident person, especially as long as there is something concrete/constructive that can be done about a given situation. I have no problem talking with strangers, etc.

 

But I often tend to be quite anxious about things that are out of my control (health issues, etc.).

 

So confidence and anxiety aren't mutually exclusive within the same person. I think we humans are way more complex than that!

 

That makes a lot of sense:  things within your control vs. things outside of your control.  Thanks for explaining.

[wendy not in HI]

I would say confident with anxiety describes me really well.

 

I am great in front of large groups and I am amazing at planning big events. But leading up to the event or speech, I am totally anxious and must do every little thing to make sure it is perfect, and think about all the ways it can go wrong and plan for that as well...  If I tell myself to just wing it, I won't sleep and will go over those little details all night long...  I'm a good public speaker and I'm good with groups, but I am horrible at small talk.  I want to be able to enjoy mingling at a "mixer" but it actually fills me with anxiety (I wonder if it's because I can't plan out the details)  though I do okay.

 

As I am transitioning into the next phase of my life (kids leaving home, just started working) I feel sort of frozen.  It's like, I know I would be so good at all these different things, but I can't pick one because it would limit me in other areas, and so I don't do anything... (I'm not sure if that's what I mean exactly, but something like that - I could do all of these things, but if I pick that one, then I can't do that other one and what if I'm not so good at that first one as I thought when I really could have been great at the one I didn't pick...)  I think that little bit of anxiety about the future is holding me back right now, but I'm obviously over confident about how amazing I am ;)

Edited September 8, 2017 by wendy not in HI

[J-rap]

I would say confident with anxiety describes me really well.

 

I am great in front of large groups and I am amazing at planning big events. But leading up to the event or speech, I am totally anxious and must do every little thing to make sure it is perfect, and think about all the ways it can go wrong and plan for that as well...  If I tell myself to just wing it, I won't sleep and will go over those little details all night long...  I'm a good public speaker and I'm good with groups, but I am horrible at small talk.  I want to be able to enjoy mingling at a "mixer" but it actually fills me with anxiety (I wonder if it's because I can't plan out the details)  though I do okay.

 

As I am transitioning into the next phase of my life (kids leaving home, just started working) I feel sort of frozen.  It's like, I know I would be so good at all these different things, but I can't pick one because it would limit me in other areas, and so I don't do anything... (I'm not sure if that's what I mean exactly, but something like that - I could do all of these things, but if I pick that one, then I can't do that other one and what if I'm not so good at that first one as I thought when I really could have been great at the one I didn't pick...)  I think that little bit of anxiety about the future is holding me back right now, but I'm obviously over confident about how amazing I am ;)

 

Haha, that's a good explanation!  I find that part of the anxiety I see in my kids is what you are talking about -- trying to make the right choice and stalling and forever questioning it.  Maybe I'm the weird one and I don't do that.  I just pick something and go with it.  But I attribute that to my being not as analytical as my dh and children.  

[scrapbookbuzz]

I'd say that it's completely normal to be confident and still have anxiety in certain circumstances. Anxiety can also be described as heightened awareness or "fight and flight" response. I've heard some very confident musicians say that they always get anxious before a performance, and when they start playing the anxiety leaves. They appreciate it as it tells them that the performance is meaningful to them and they want to do their very best. Athletes also deal with performance anxiety.

 what you're describing here is "butterflies" or pre-performance nerves, which is normal; this is not anxiety, which is not 'normal' but seems

to be more and more common lately.

 

OP, the human body in and of itself is often a dichotomy. A confident person with anxiety is not outside the realm of possibility. Ask me how I know.  :glare:

In general, I am a fairly confident person - on the outside. I've done standup comedy and performed on stage comfortably, after the pre-performance jitters.

I am confident in my ability to write stories well. And other things. However, for at least 3.5 years now, I've struggled with anxiety. Sometimes it's brought on my stress, my symptoms just randomly occur. In my case, the anxiety presents through the same symptoms as cardiac issues. Which causes more anxiety because I don't know whether or not I should go to the ER when that happens! 

 

Anyway, my point, is that someone can seem quite confident and yet struggle internally with a myriad of issues, including anxiety.

[heartlikealion]

Some it could be that whole "fake it til you make it" thing. You can be nervous on the inside but try to put on a good front.

 

I get anxious about certain things but if the end goal is worth it, it helps push me to do something. I hate confrontation. I was at the check out yesterday and a line was forming behind me. The cashier was refusing my coupons and I was explaining there should not be a problem. Her confidence may have outshined mine for a minute as she was trying to tell me I could not use them. I was confident that I was not misusing them and they should be taken. I basically wasn't taking no for an answer so she left the line to talk to a manager. I turned to the ladies behind me and apologized for holding up the line stating that the cashier didn't quite understand the coupons and needed confirmation but that I knew I could use them. They all nodded their heads in agreement with me and one offered her recent coupon story. When the cashier returned I felt less anxious and she scanned them and I left. I did feel a little badly about the confrontation but I was not leaving without my discounts LOL

[J-rap]

 what you're describing here is "butterflies" or pre-performance nerves, which is normal; this is not anxiety, which is not 'normal' but seems

to be more and more common lately.

 

OP, the human body in and of itself is often a dichotomy. A confident person with anxiety is not outside the realm of possibility. Ask me how I know.  :glare:

In general, I am a fairly confident person - on the outside. I've done standup comedy and performed on stage comfortably, after the pre-performance jitters.

I am confident in my ability to write stories well. And other things. However, for at least 3.5 years now, I've struggled with anxiety. Sometimes it's brought on my stress, my symptoms just randomly occur. In my case, the anxiety presents through the same symptoms as cardiac issues. Which causes more anxiety because I don't know whether or not I should go to the ER when that happens! 

 

Anyway, my point, is that someone can seem quite confident and yet struggle internally with a myriad of issues, including anxiety.

 

Thanks for explaining.  Yes, I agree with you about butterflies vs. anxiety.  My children do not have butterflies.  They do not worry at all pre-performances or going on stage or speaking in front of crowds or any of that.  It's much deeper than that.  It's something that affects life choices and relationships. It seems to be paralyzing at times.  

 

Also, I'm intrigued by your doing standup comedy!

[forty-two]

Anyway, my point, is that someone can seem quite confident and yet struggle internally with a myriad of issues, including anxiety.

I'd describe my own confident-with-anxiety experience differently. I'd say I don't just *seem* confident on the outside, but that when I am confident-seeming, I generally really *am* confident at that moment, inside and out. And that coexists with times where I'm a puddle of anxiety-ridden goo on the outside as well as the inside.

 

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean people who don't know me well would recognize my anxiety-driven avoidance behaviors for what they are, but I'm living out my anxiety just as much as I live out my confidence - I personally don't tend to be anxious on the inside while confident on the outside. Instead I alternate between an inside-and-out confidence (which sometimes includes pre-performance butterflies) and an inside-and-out anxiety (outwardly the anxiety manifests as stress and avoidance and general on-edge-ness and being easily overwhelmed by things).

[scrapbookbuzz]

I haven't done standup comedy in about 12 years but could totally pull something together if someone asked me to do so!

 

Yes, anxiety is a more internal issue than butterflies. Anxiety can also, amazingly enough, be a symptom of various other things!

And it, like depression (they're buddies, it seems), can be debilitating. In that you can know, logically, what you need to do but it's

getting your actual physical body into action that seems to take Olympic effort. And even then, even then, you might not be able to get

yourself to DO what you know needs to be done. I'm not sure that makes any sense except to someone who's experienced it.

[maize]

Sometimes bravado--making oneself behave very confidently--can be a way to cope with anxiety and mask it.

[Carol in Cal.]

I haven't done standup comedy in about 12 years but could totally pull something together if someone asked me to do so!

 

Yes, anxiety is a more internal issue than butterflies. Anxiety can also, amazingly enough, be a symptom of various other things!

And it, like depression (they're buddies, it seems), can be debilitating. In that you can know, logically, what you need to do but it's

getting your actual physical body into action that seems to take Olympic effort. And even then, even then, you might not be able to get

yourself to DO what you know needs to be done. I'm not sure that makes any sense except to someone who's experienced it.

This is why I don't try to cross rivers on logs.  Because I know how this effects me, and that means that I am pretty likely to get spastic in my movements or freeze up or both, and fall in.

[nixpix5]

I don't believe anxiety and confidence are opposite traits. One can be quite confident and still tend to be anxious.

I think this is true. People who do well in life can often be confident because they have enough healthy anxiety to get tasks done and do things well. Anxiety only becomes a true issue when it is debilitating and keeps someone from living their life. If someone can be confident and accomplish things they usually must have some level of positive pressure or self pressure (anxiousness) that pushes them forward.

 

Have you ever met someone who can stick their fingers in their ears and not worry they have a ton to do because anxiety doesn't kick in for them? They, for whatever reason, can turn it off and let others worry about it. Those people are often not as successful. Like everything else in life, the middle of the road is the most healthy and shifting too far in either direction leads to issues.

[wintermom]

 what you're describing here is "butterflies" or pre-performance nerves, which is normal; this is not anxiety, which is not 'normal' but seems

to be more and more common lately.

 

OP, the human body in and of itself is often a dichotomy. A confident person with anxiety is not outside the realm of possibility. Ask me how I know.  :glare:

In general, I am a fairly confident person - on the outside. I've done standup comedy and performed on stage comfortably, after the pre-performance jitters.

I am confident in my ability to write stories well. And other things. However, for at least 3.5 years now, I've struggled with anxiety. Sometimes it's brought on my stress, my symptoms just randomly occur. In my case, the anxiety presents through the same symptoms as cardiac issues. Which causes more anxiety because I don't know whether or not I should go to the ER when that happens! 

 

Anyway, my point, is that someone can seem quite confident and yet struggle internally with a myriad of issues, including anxiety.

 

Are you talking about an anxiety disorder? I didn't read the OP's question as specifically being that. I guess if she could do more research into that. I took it as meaning anxiety in certain circumstances. 

[J-rap]

Sometimes bravado--making oneself behave very confidently--can be a way to cope with anxiety and mask it.

 

I wonder if the person doing this realizes he is doing it?

[J-rap]

Are you talking about an anxiety disorder? I didn't read the OP's question as specifically being that. I guess if she could do more research into that. I took it as meaning anxiety in certain circumstances. 

 

Initially I thought it was more of an anxiety in certain circumstances, but sometimes I wonder if it goes deeper than that.  But, even anxiety disorder only plays out in certain circumstances, doesn't it?