S/O of Kids choice...humor me here

[Meadowlark]

Just curious what you all would have to say about the following scenario:

 

So, imagine that you have 5 kids who were homeschooled and then had their first public school experience in 5th, 4th, 1st, K and prek. 

 

Now imagine that for the most part, it was a successful year. Good school, excellent teachers, and the kids were generally happy.

 

Now imagine that the older kids were picking up some bad things to varying degrees. Things like language, "worldliness" that you'd rather they not know, fighting on playground and you were rather unhappy about the educational experience as a whole. A ton of technology, somewhat weak curriculum choices, wasted time (naturally), and overall "blah" experience (acc. to me) compared to the meatiness of your homeschool. But-as far as public schools go, it was pretty decent overall. And by the way, everyone LOVES this school around here and says it's one of the best.

 

Then imagine at the end of the year, a few wanted to homeschool again and a few didn't. Would you..

1. Homeschool the ones that wanted to and let the others go back to school OR

2. Pull everybody out and homeschool them all OR

3. continue everyone in public school

 

I know there are SO many other factors that would contribute to this huge decision. But I guess what I'm getting at here, is would you homeschool a child that really didn't want to be homeschooled, even though you know he'd be best academically and emotionally at home? Or at least you *think* he would? Or would the kid be traumatized to be taken out of the environment that he deems best for himself? Would you put your feelings and desires ahead of his (at the upper elementary/middle school level?) Would you take the chance of him being absolutely miserable, esp. considering he now has a taste of public school and likes it?

 

Or, would you let him continue in public school recognizing that this is just the real world and he is going to have to navigate through it?

 

Obviously, if you look at my signature...this is my situation. It's still so very early and there's a lot to learn, but I just may be faced with this decision come the end of the year. Any insight appreciated. Please be kind-this was an emotional decision and I'm still on the verge of tears about every other day.

 

 

[Petrichor]

What was your reason for sending them to school in the first place? *no judgement from me*

 

If school and being around same age peers was causing/encouraging bad behavior, I'd probably lean towards keeping them home, at your older kids ages. 

 

If it's the kindy and preschooler who want to go to to school, I'd kindly disregard their feelings about it because "school" at that age is more like play time.

 

I think, at your kids ages, homeschooling a kid who doesn't want to be homeschooled, who has only gone to public school for one year, isn't that big of a deal. It was a one-year trial, and the older ones are old enough that you can explain to them what a trial means, and some of your reasons for them to go back to homeschooling. I think it doesn't have to be traumatizing if you approach it right, though the 10 yo might take a few months or a year to "get over it."

 

And if one (or more) of the kids doesn't "get over it" after a year, you don't have to keep homeschooling them. 

[Petrichor]

Eek! Sorry, didn't notice your other thread!

 

If the 10yo wants to homeschool next year, but you don't want to homeschool all the kids, then just keep him home. You can give the expectation to all the other kids that "we homeschool middle school in this house."

 

It's public school so their friends probably live close by, right? They can still see each other, just not every day. 

 

I'm sorry, I think I'm not even answering your question right. :/ I should probably be responding in the other thread...

[Arcadia]

But I guess what I'm getting at here, is would you homeschool a child that really didn't want to be homeschooled, even though you know he'd be best academically and emotionally at home?

My husband chose to switch from public school to homeschool for purely academic reasons. My kids knew plenty of swear words before kindergarten and we don't "filter" television viewing so they had watched late night news and adult talk shows with us.

 

The first year (5th and 4th grade) was really a zero as far as academics. Older thrive on peer pressure, younger thrive on social activities. Younger had anxiety after a year home due to isolation as I can't drive and we didn't think an introvert would need daily social hour. Unfortunately my oldest is an overachiever which makes my younger insecure with no one else to compare to. He was calling himself stupid.

 

The second year we outsourced every subject aiming for B&M classes when possible. We spend thousands in outsourced classes per child and it paid off when our kids were lots happier. My younger gets some self esteem back while my oldest is putting a lot more effort. We just finished three years of homeschooling this June and we would just have to continue outsourcing everything until we find a suitable B&M school.

 

We started this academic year on August 15th, same time as our district. The lack of B&M classes is already having a toil on my introverts. I just signed them up for more B&M classes a few days ago because cranky kids who want to talk to someone their age who is not a sibling is hard to bear with day in day out. My kids are strongly opinionated and very strong willed. Oldest is intense as well.

 

So we technically homeschool two kids who doesn't want to homeschool by outsourcing every subject including PE.

 

You have lots more kids than me. Decide base on each kid. For example there is bullying in our assigned middle school which my older would most likely be able to deal with but my younger would be a bully magnet.

[Pen]

Unless there is a major reason to have all dc do same thing, I'd make decisions individually for each child.

 

If the emotional issues are bad, such as being bullied, or learning to bully, or getting pulled into a gang, or drugs, then I would be more inclined to get the dc out of the situation regardless of dc's desires. 

 

Otherwise, for an older elementary child I'd let the child participate in decision.  I might impose a restriction on choice such as dc can go to public, so long as he does not bring home language against your home's rules, or so long as he did do some afterschooling if the issue is lack of enough learning at the school. So it could be more a social and fun time, but some serious academics could happen at home.   It is hard to homeschool kids who do not want to be homeschooled, and the older they get the harder it is. But if the dc wants to be at brick and mortar school, then there could be some leverage to use for issues.

[Elizabeth86]

For me I would never ever ever ever homeschool if my kids didnt want too no matter the age. Im set on doing homeschool while mine are small, but I have no intentions of hs for the older years or if they started asking to go. I would go through with option 1.

 

Im not really sure how the school is these days, but basically I was a good kid in school and avoided the trouble kids. If my kids are the type to seek out doing wrong they will regardless of where they are. If they want to make good choices they will even in bad situations.

[nixpix5]

For me I would keep home who wants to be home. If the 1st, k and pre-k were the ones wanting to stay in PS then I would bring them back home. If it was the 4th grader who wanted to stay, I might allow it if I didn't see their overall sense of self and behavior tanking. No matter what though, for me, I would homeschool the ones asking.

 

It does come down to why you sent them in the first place. If it was the best choice for you and your family don't feel guilty. You need to make the choice that best fits all of you. *hug*

[emilyh]

This is somewhat our situation so I can tell you what we ended up doing.  Last year we put the older 3 kids in for 5th, 3rd, and 1st because I was burned out and the older two were really needing to interact with kids their age.  My oldest absolutely thrived and blossomed with more peer interaction and having someone else teach her but she is also a teacher's dream student.  My 3rd grader had a great time at school but I wasn't totally thrilled with his academics.  The first grader hated school and it was all I could do to get her to the end of the year if I promised to homeschool her this year.  She did love her class but I think she got really bored.  So this year the older two wanted to go back to school and I kept my 2nd grader home with my new kindergartner.  My oldest I know is going to have a fabulous year academic wise.  She's taking a high school science course, choir, and art which she just loves and I can't give her that at home.  I'm still not thrilled with my 4th-grader's school experience.  He has said some kids are being mean to him, not bullying, just normal kid stuff but I still hate it.  However, since he wants to go we will stick this year out and see where he ends up academically.  If it really turns out to be not a good thing socially or academically we will bring him home for the next year whether he wants to or not.  I've found pros and cons to both the public school and to homeschool so it's just a matter of which ones out weigh the others for each child.  

[fairfarmhand]

I homeschooled my oldest for quite a few years when she didn't want to,

She'd never been in school.

There were a lot of reasons she wanted to go to school. Mostly because she had an unrealistic idea of what school was like.

 

She thought she'd have a whole classroom of happy, supportive friends who hung out and had great fun all day.

She thought that the teacher would sit beside her and cheefully work problem after problem, explaining difficult concepts until each student in the class completely understood what was taught.

She thought that having a "real" teacher meant that the information magically oozed into the students heads with no effort on the student's part whatsoever.

She thought that math was hard because her mom wasn't a real teacher.

She thought that school was a magical wonderful place full of rainbows and unicorns.

 

I tried to explain the reality.

I knew she was capable of more than she;d be presented with each year in school.

I knew her personal struggles would not be gone becasue of school and instead, I'd have to deal with her middleschool emotional crap in just 5 hours a day. It wouldn't help her be a cheerful happy child. She'd be tired of holding it together all day and we'd bear the brunt of it when she fell apart at the end of the day.

 

Finally, I told her that we were homeschooling. That was it. We were a homeschooling family, we felt this was the best thing for our family. If she didn't like it, she could pray that God would change my mind.

 

I won't kid you. It was hard.

 

When she reached high school things got better. When I enrolled her in the virtual school, she learned that *shock* School is sometimes hard. No matter who the teacher is. That good teachers push you to do better than you imagined you could. When she learned to drive and could choose to go places on her own, she learned even more about life.

 

She told me last summer that she's SOOOO glad that I homeschooled her even when she didn't want to in middle school. She admits that her expectations were entirely unrealistic and she was better academically [prepared because of homeschooling. She feels sorry for students who haven't had the chance to be pushed academically because they're struggling in college, they don't have the scholarships that she's got, and they're not prepared for adulthood.

 

So yes, it is possible to homeschool a kid that really doesn't want to . It was NOT easy. Buit it was worthwhile,

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by lllllll

[Farrar]

I would homeschool the kid who was presumably about to start middle school unless there was a specific and compelling reason not to, mostly regardless of wishes. I don't think middle school is good for kids.

 

As for the others... I'd leave it up to them. So, I'd homeschool the ones who wanted to and let the others stay in school. But some of the things you're concerned about, like "worldliness" simply aren't things I'm concerned about, so we're probably coming at this from very different places. But you gave them the option, they're happy, the school is totally fine, they're learning different things, but it's good to let go a little as long as things are okay overall (which they are). So, I'd take a deep breath and let them stay for now.

[Farrar]

Oh, another thing though. I would be sure to be clear with the kids about what the decision is, what the overall plan is, and what power their wishes have or don't have. It's fine to be on the fence in private, but not to be wishy washy in front of them. And it's fine to take their wishes into account but make the ultimate call yourself, but then make it clear that that's what you're doing - not allowing them to make the call themselves. And if you want to say, be sure you homeschool at a particular time of life or grade level, then make that clear too. If school is "just for now" then they should know that and not live in uncertainty. Also make it clear that if there are family disasters or unexpected big issues, that plans can change.

[Jean in Newcastle]

In your case (based on reading lots and lots of your posts on the subject) I would leave them in school and I would afterschool them.  It doesn't have to be intense or daily or for hours.  Just some time shoring up some of the things that you think are a bit weak.  Some of the afterschooling could be more in the nature of family devotions (to counter act the worldliness you mentioned).  Different things work best for different families.  It just seems that this might work best for yours. 

[Emba]

I'm not in your exact situation but similarly, I feel like my middle is picking up stuff from mschool I don't like. Youngest (kindergarten) needs some social experience though. Oldest is homeschooled. Ideally I would like to homeschooled them all, but middle is so adamantly opposed to it that he would sabotage it if forced to leave public school. So whatever my ideal, I do what I feel works best for each until/unless the situation in PS becomes untenable to me. If I felt it was really necessary I'd make him.

[Mrs Twain]

This week my eldest started B&M high school (which was our original long-team plan), and it has made me exceedingly thankful that we homeschooled him through middle school. Yes, I am glad he was sheltered from some of the social aspects, but I am mostly grateful because of the academics. I see that he has gotten a better foundation than his peers in grammar, writing, math, history, science, and public speaking. Our "good" local middle school wouldn't have prepared him well at all.

 

I haven't read all of your posts about this, but choosing homeschool so that you can provide better academic instruction is a solid reason to overrule your child's wishes. He can't see the future that way you can and know how important a good education is for his life.

[Rosika]

 

Then imagine at the end of the year, a few wanted to homeschool again and a few didn't. Would you..

1. Homeschool the ones that wanted to and let the others go back to school OR

2. Pull everybody out and homeschool them all OR

3. continue everyone in public school

 

I would make the decision on a per-child basis, as opposed to one sweeping family decision. This assumes that my state of health, including burnout, wasn't the reason I sent them to school in the first place (that obviously is the highest priority and any decisions would be made accordingly.)

 

In your situation I think I'd see if he were open to a hybrid. Is it the school that he likes, or specific people AT the school? I mean, would he be open (assuming you are also) to a university model type school or co-op environment, if there are any locally? That is a compromise we made. Fortunately for me it was short-lived because I hate co-ops LOL and he came back around to preferring to do school one-on-one with me. We agreed to try it for a year and re-evaluate then. He promised to give it a fair shot, and I promised to give p.s. full consideration at the end of that year. I did let him know that this is a decision I could have made unilaterally ("No! You'll be homeschooled and you'll deal with it!") but that I was trying to work with him and help it work FOR him within what I felt was best for him (to be homeschooled that year). Perspective, and all of that! 

 

The following year our compromise was online p.s. which was offered through our local ISD. I felt like his academics suffered some, but our relationship was improving and his emotional health needs were being met. I do tend to prioritize emotional health over academics. I figure he can always learn academics, and if he falls behind ... oh well, that's way easier to catch up on than the other stuff! I live in a decent school district, though, and school comes relatively easily to him, so that feels like a bit of a luxury. I don't know if I'd make the same decision with a struggling student or if I lived in very poor school district. Poor as in quality, in case that's not clear. 

 

A kid's personality really matters here, though. I'd have been a student from hell if my parents tried to force me to stay home. I'm ornery and stubborn and will dig in my heels. My son was resistant, but is way less high-strung and not inclined to make it a power struggle. 

[AimeeM]

We'd have to further define what you mean by "emotionally better." If you just mean they wouldn't pick up "worldliness," bad language, etc. I would say that I do not consider those things to be emotionally damaging. 

 

So, I'll answer with regard to myself and our home situation.

 

If a child seemed so miserable about being homeschooled, or depressed about it in any way, then the academic superiority of homeschool wouldn't play at all into my decision, assuming the school is physically safe. I can supplement academics, or even just get by with "okay." I've known children who are, however, sincerely miserable and depressed being homeschooled, and when the fix for that is as simple as letting them go to school (largely, these tend to be very social creatures, who learn and live best in groups), I hope that I would do just that. I know adults who are still very resentful over this very thing (and in reverse -- adults who wish they had been pulled from school, but weren't).

 

I have one who hates homeschooling -- but choosing it for herself. She would much prefer a brick and mortar school, but is old enough to recognize that it isn't a good option for her right now. It is something we are consistently working toward, however. Our goal is to get her in a position, academically, where she could go to a brick and mortar school without feeling large amounts of stress and anxiety over the academics.

 

Then I have two who adore being homeschooled and hate the idea of brick and mortar school. All three kids live in the same house, they are just wildly different personalities. 

 

Since I don't really consider any of the things you listed as unsafe, my question (for you) would be: how miserable or unhappy will the public-school-lovers be if you pull them? 

[bolt.]

If (like you) I considered homeschooling vastly superior, I would strongly consider providing the education that I thought was best (homeschooling) to students in the upper elementary and middle school age ranges -- even if the student thought otherwise. My plan would include ( a ) months of warning, ( b ) strong communication that the decision was already final ( c ) a lot of "sweetening" around the upcoming homeschool experience and ( d ) empathy responses to any complaints.

 

- By "sweetening" I mean things like: science centre passes, fancy school supplies, a school-room makeover, late start times, doing school in pajamas, fancy high-interest unit studies, cookie breaks, etc.

 

- By "empathy responses" I mean telling the child that you are listening, understanding and openly sympathizing with their completely legitimate point of view; that you agree (as much as you can), and that you will put a lot of thought into ways to help make that aspect better (without changing your mind). This empathy is not followed up with, "But it won't be as bad as you think. Look on this-here bright side." -- save bight side comments for other conversations.

 

However, if a child was legitimately miserable, for months, especially if the conflict was interfering with the learning experience -- and I couldn't remedy it, no matter what styles of leadership and support I attempted to apply -- I would consider re-enrollment in the option I considered inferior (school in a building) to preserve the family relationship and to get an adequate, reliable education actually going on. (I would not tell the child this was a possibility until/unless things got to that point.)

 

With younger children, the decision is "all parental" but into the teenage years, I think the responsibility begins to be shared with the adolescent. Therefore the older the child, the more their opinion "counts" for me.

 

Alternatively, if I considered homeschooling only somewhat superior to the other schooling option, I would have less desire to work my way through conflict, misery and relationship damage. I wouldn't do it just to accomplish only a modest improvement in education. In that case, I would leave happy youngers in a "good school" over trying to homeschool them unhappily.

[Meadowlark]

If (like you) I considered homeschooling vastly superior, I would strongly consider providing the education that I thought was best (homeschooling) to students in the upper elementary and middle school age ranges -- even if the student thought otherwise. My plan would include ( a ) months of warning, ( b ) strong communication that the decision was already final ( c ) a lot of "sweetening" around the upcoming homeschool experience and ( d ) empathy responses to any complaints.

 

- By "sweetening" I mean things like: science centre passes, fancy school supplies, a school-room makeover, late start times, doing school in pajamas, fancy high-interest unit studies, cookie breaks, etc.

 

- By "empathy responses" I mean telling the child that you are listening, understanding and openly sympathizing with their completely legitimate point of view; that you agree (as much as you can), and that you will put a lot of thought into ways to help make that aspect better (without changing your mind). This empathy is not followed up with, "But it won't be as bad as you think. Look on this-here bright side." -- save bight side comments for other conversations.

 

However, if a child was legitimately miserable, for months, especially if the conflict was interfering with the learning experience -- and I couldn't remedy it, no matter what styles of leadership and support I attempted to apply -- I would consider re-enrollment in the option I considered inferior (school in a building) to preserve the family relationship and to get an adequate, reliable education actually going on. (I would not tell the child this was a possibility until/unless things got to that point.)

 

With younger children, the decision is "all parental" but into the teenage years, I think the responsibility begins to be shared with the adolescent. Therefore the older the child, the more their opinion "counts" for me.

 

Alternatively, if I considered homeschooling only somewhat superior to the other schooling option, I would have less desire to work my way through conflict, misery and relationship damage. I wouldn't do it just to accomplish only a modest improvement in education. In that case, I would leave happy youngers in a "good school" over trying to homeschool them unhappily.

Thanks for this thoughtful and thought-provoking post. I might not have realized it before, but what I was doing with this (although I thought not enough) was meaty and worthwhile. That time spent cuddling on the couch reading excellent quality books? Yeah, they're not getting that at school. From what I've seen in 2 weeks, the reading gets done on a smartboard. Teachers aren't even reading to kids anymore. My kids spent a ton of time on ipads, chromebooks, and everything else. So...although time will tell and I'm trying not to make harsh judgements just yet, I'm pretty sure homeschooling done WELL is superior.

 

That said, what I personally was doing...probably was not superior at this time in my life. I was burned out, tired, pregnant and just unhappy. I would wake up everyday dreading it. I recognized that life shouldn't be drudgery and my kids were getting the raw end of the deal. For that reason, I chose to put them in school this year. Because I knew that with a newborn, things wouldn't be good, esp. if I was not getting sleep. Turned out, baby is pretty fussy and I think it was the right choice for now. I am hoping that what they're getting in school is at least better than what I would be providing at home right NOW.

 

I guess this post is banking on whether or not I will be ready to homeschool anybody next year. I'm definitely anticipating most if not all of them will want to head back to school though. Again, too early to tell but we will see. I knew that putting them in school was taking the chance that they would love it and not want to homeschool again. But seeing what I'm seeing on the bus, with technology and on the playground, middle school scares the h#ll out of me. I'm just not sure that my oldest would be better off at home. Out of all of them, he's the most social and seems to be thriving. I'm mostly talking about my second son..who is like a bad language bad behavior sponge. I worry about that kid.

 

Anyway, I like your method of dealing with the decision if it comes with that. I will refer back if homeschooling becomes a possibility. I loved your ideas to sweeten things up. There was no sweet last year at all-I was a wreck now that I reflect. But who knows-the future is wide open. Thanks again.