How many languages, at what age?

[Petrichor]

I'm not even going to try to make a poll because there would just be too many options. 

 

Would you begin to learn two, maybe three languages at once? And at what age? 

 

 

 

 

[Petrichor]

I'm looking at our third grade year. 

 

At home, we speak mainly English, mixed with Urdu (a language that shares quite a bit with Arabic). He is exposed to Arabic and can read it, and does so in a separate class more than 3 times per week. 

 

I'm considering beginning instruction in Spanish. It would be traditional, conversational Spanish. 

 

But, I also want to work on the Arabic. He's exposed to it a lot, so we wouldn't have to practice so much outside of what he is already doing. We'd do vocab based on what he reads every week and grammar. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mabelen]

Does Urdu really have so much in common with Arabic other than the script? I thought Urdu was basically the same as Hindi with the exception of the script system. Is your son learning Arabic as a spoken language or only in order to study the Quran? Adding Spanish might depend on what your son thinks. How does he feel about it?

[Loesje22000]

Dd started to read in mothertongue (Dutch) at age 3,

Age 5 = adding English

Age 7 = Adding French

Age 9 = adding Latin

Age 11= adding biblical greek (fridged at 14th)

Age 13 = adding German

Dabbled with Hebrew and Spanish during the years, but nothing too serious.

 

I am not convinced that starting early always gets its fruits.

Motivation and intensity are probably as important.

[madteaparty]

I am not convinced that starting early always gets its fruits.

Motivation and intensity are probably as important.

I'm also of this view. My DD can't fluently read in English yet. I don't plan to start a first foreign language until age 8 or so with her, and only so she's not totally lost when she does immersion at 10 or 11. We only speak English at home, and as such, we've had most return on both time/$ investment from immersion.

[Roadrunner]

I think if you have native speakers of those languages at home, early is good. If you are learning primarily from books, I am also not convinced that early is necessary.

[luuknam]

I think a lot of it also depends on the child's interest level. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I am agreeing with the others that early isn't necessarily better.  Aside from true bilingualism, science is tending to disprove the whole "kids learn languages better" common belief.  I would rather bring a child along quite a bit in one language before adding the next.  

 

For my kids:

English/French bilingual since birth- conversation, reading, writing.  I work hard to keep them at similar levels for all three areas for these two languages.

 

Starting in US 3rd grade, we added German because we were required to by law.  Otherwise, I would have probably put it off until 5th.  Two oldest kids do about 1 hour a day.  Our second child started earlier than our first because it made sense to us to combine them.  

 

Started Latin in US 5th grade.  This is because I think my son just needs a challenge and I want to learn Latin too.  This will not represent a huge portion of our school week this year.  

 

Goals:  Maintain both native languages at similar levels throughout education.  Reach fluency in German (solid B2 level).  Reach "academic fluency" in Latin.

[8filltheheart]

I am agreeing with the others that early isn't necessarily better.  Aside from true bilingualism, science is tending to disprove the whole "kids learn languages better" common belief.  I would rather bring a child along quite a bit in one language before adding the next.  

 

I agree with this. This has been the case with my kids as well.  

 

My oldest was fluent in Brazilian Portuguese due to immersion.  He even slept walked in Portuguese.   Unfortunately, languages learned as children also require "maintenance."  He has lost it.  I am sure if he re-immersed himself in it that it would come back.  But, at this particular moment, he can't remember much. (ETA: maintaining his Portuguese was not something he was ever interested in doing.  I am sure his sister would have maintained her fluency bc it would have mattered to her.)

 

My 2nd oldest dd started French in elementary school, but it was total dabbling b/c I don't know any French.  She really didn't start making real progress until she was able to self-study rather seriously. I would say that was around 6th or 7th grade.  She is now fluent and can watch French movies while building puzzles and understand everything.  (I take multi-tasking and full comprehension as a sign of fluency.)  She didn't start Russian until 9th grade and made rapid progress and has an excellent accent.  She is definitely not fluent in Russian but she hopes to be by the end of college.

 

She started Latin in 6th grade.  She mastered Latin quickly and it helped her other 2 languages.  

 

She loves languages.  I wouldn't have changed how we approached things at all.  I would not have started any earlier for languages that needed to be studied.  Immersion, otoh, I would be all over if it was something available.  Our ds became fluent quickly and easily at age 7.  Learning the language through playing with friends was definitely an easier and simpler method!!

Edited August 25, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Renai]

I am agreeing with the others that early isn't necessarily better.  Aside from true bilingualism, science is tending to disprove the whole "kids learn languages better" common belief.  

 

:iagree: The reason it was thought children learned better had more to do with how they were learning - immersion vs books. Put an adult and a child side by side, learning the same way, for the same amount of time, the adult fares better long-term because they have more "pegs" to hang the new language on and to make connections with.

 

We are bilingual English/Spanish, reading, speaking, writing. My youngest (6yo) expressed interest in German, so I've had to relearn some things, but limit it to speaking about routine items. I won't even start with reading or writing it until she is older, can read and write well in her two native languages, and still shows interest in it. She also shows an interest in Japanese since her older sister is self-studying it.

 

My oldest (17yo) has expressed interest in different languages in different years, starting in 5th. She's done French (as a dyslexic with poor working memory, the spelling became too much), Italian, German (barely dabbled), and now Japanese. I don't know any French or Italian so couldn't help her. I think that 5th is a good age to formally start, but I really don't know. It was just the age my dd showed interest. :laugh:  In early childhood years, speaking and understanding are more important to me as far as language learning.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Renai

[Petrichor]

Does Urdu really have so much in common with Arabic other than the script? I thought Urdu was basically the same as Hindi with the exception of the script system. Is your son learning Arabic as a spoken language or only in order to study the Quran? Adding Spanish might depend on what your son thinks. How does he feel about it?

 

It is the same as Hindi, though Urdu might have more borrowed Arabic words.

 

Arabic and Urdu share a lot of nouns. Verbs are quite different. 

 

I want DS to learn Arabic vocabulary and become familiar with some verb patterns so he can understand Qur'an, since we plan to put him in a program for memorizing it next year. 

 

So I suppose, I'm wondering if I should teach Arabic, and let that be our language for now, or if I should start spanish with him too. 

 

But maybe it's more important to only do Arabic now, since there will be more exposure. 

[Petrichor]

Dd started to read in mothertongue (Dutch) at age 3,

Age 5 = adding English

Age 7 = Adding French

Age 9 = adding Latin

Age 11= adding biblical greek (fridged at 14th)

Age 13 = adding German

Dabbled with Hebrew and Spanish during the years, but nothing too serious.

 

I am not convinced that starting early always gets its fruits.

Motivation and intensity are probably as important.

 

Wow, that's a lot.

 

Does she still study/speak/know English, French, Latin, Biblical Greek, and German?

[Petrichor]

So, for Spanish, he is not too interested in learning. And there wouldn't be much opportunity for him to use it, other than to talk to me. I have experience in Spanish, my pronunciation is good, and after a short refresher, I would probably be able to transition to speaking it with DS, though probably not extensively. 

 

I was unaware of the "earlier isn't always better" It does make sense though that learning a language through books is harder to maintain than immersion. 

 

 

[Loesje22000]

Wow, that's a lot.

 

Does she still study/speak/know English, French, Latin, Biblical Greek, and German?

Biblical Greek has been put in the fridge and as we don't use it now, I don't know what she still remembers.

 

Dutch, English, French, Latin, and German are all exam subjects in her track, so yes, we still study them, but not in an American 'one hour per subject per day' way.

Some languages get more time / attention then others.

We don't do all languages in a bilingual way, that would be too heavy.

But she does the sciences in English since grade 2, and did math in english for several years.

 

As dd is in the Latin - Modern Languages track she has less hours math and science then she would have if she would be in a Math - Science track, but then she only would have Dutch- English- French as examlanguages

[Petrichor]

I should probably look for resources for teaching/strengthening Urdu (having in-laws teach him is not working out) and he can get practice by speaking with them. They speak some English, so he is able to avoid needing to speak in Urdu to them when he doesn't know the right way to say something. 

 

And for Arabic, we can do some flashcards and light grammar. I want him to be ready for when he starts the Qur'an memorization program next summer.

[Mabelen]

With your additional information, I personally would concentrate on doing Urdu and Arabic thoroughly.

 

Languages are time intensive to attain and maintain. You need strong motivation. This could be extrinsic by needing a language to communicate, or intrinsic by a personal desire to learn the language.

 

For example, my husband is not a language guy, and yet, he speaks 3 languages. His motivation was extrinsic. He was a linguistic minority in a country with 3 official languages. He had the need to use all 3 pretty much on a daily basis, including at school. I grew up monolingual. My mother tongue was the majority language, and I lived in a monolingual area. I had no need to speak anything other than Spanish. However, I started studying English at school. I realized that I was good at it, and started to become interested in the language and the people who speak it and their cultures. My motivation was intrinsic. I had no real need to put in the time and effort, but I was fascinated, so I learned. The same happened with Italian when I took a class in college.

 

ETA You can always add Spanish later, when you can commit to doing Spanish consistently.

 

It is the same as Hindi, though Urdu might have more borrowed Arabic words.

 

Arabic and Urdu share a lot of nouns. Verbs are quite different.

 

I want DS to learn Arabic vocabulary and become familiar with some verb patterns so he can understand Qur'an, since we plan to put him in a program for memorizing it next year.

 

So I suppose, I'm wondering if I should teach Arabic, and let that be our language for now, or if I should start spanish with him too.

 

But maybe it's more important to only do Arabic now, since there will be more exposure.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mabelen

[luuknam]

Wow, that's a lot.

 

Does she still study/speak/know English, French, Latin, Biblical Greek, and German?

 

 

You should probably also keep in mind that Dutch, German, English, French, and Latin are relatively closely related languages (Biblical Greek is a little more distant, I think, but still Indo-European). While English, Urdu, and Spanish are Indo-European languages as well, Urdu is going to be quite different (based on the bit of Hindi I learned) - you don't have a neat little cluster of languages there. And Arabic is not even Indo-European. I'm not entirely sure what your motivation is for learning Spanish, but like some of the others said, it might be better to table it for now, since the kid is not really interested. 

[Petrichor]

You should probably also keep in mind that Dutch, German, English, French, and Latin are relatively closely related languages (Biblical Greek is a little more distant, I think, but still Indo-European). While English, Urdu, and Spanish are Indo-European languages as well, Urdu is going to be quite different (based on the bit of Hindi I learned) - you don't have a neat little cluster of languages there. And Arabic is not even Indo-European. I'm not entirely sure what your motivation is for learning Spanish, but like some of the others said, it might be better to table it for now, since the kid is not really interested. 

 

You're right. 

 

Spanish comes from mainly selfish reasons :D It would be the easiest out of all of them for *me* to teach, because back in the day, I was pretty fluent for a high schooler, and would like to have someone to speak with without having to get out of my introverted bubble ;) 

 

It's also a language where DS won't be able to groan and say "I know that already, can we not do this," but in all reality he will do that anyhow.  :laugh:

[luuknam]

Spanish comes from mainly selfish reasons :D It would be the easiest out of all of them for *me* to teach,

 

 

That said, English, Urdu, and Arabic is still less work than English, Urdu, Arabic, and Spanish. 

[Earthmerlin]

You're right.

 

Spanish comes from mainly selfish reasons :D It would be the easiest out of all of them for *me* to teach, because back in the day, I was pretty fluent for a high schooler, and would like to have someone to speak with without having to get out of my introverted bubble ;)

 

It's also a language where DS won't be able to groan and say "I know that already, can we not do this," but in all reality he will do that anyhow. :laugh:

I'd say go with Spanish since you speak it already. Perhaps just approach it in a relaxed way--focusing on conversational Spanish? I think it's a gift to have that passed on to your child.

[Earthmerlin]

I think a lot of it also depends on the child's interest level.

Ain't that the truth!! I'm raising my daughter with Spanish & French & it's an uphill battle since she's absolutely convinced English is HER language. I keep plugging along though....

[mathmarm]

We do two family languages from birth as daily languages--English and ASL.

Hubby and I are currently pecking away at 2 modern languages that we're interested in our kids learning down the road.

 

We are considering an immersion elementary school.

[luuknam]

I'd say go with Spanish since you speak it already. Perhaps just approach it in a relaxed way--focusing on conversational Spanish? I think it's a gift to have that passed on to your child.

 

IIUC Dust correctly though, English and Urdu are heritage languages, and she wants to do Arabic for religious reasons, so, Spanish would just be an extra language, because it's common in the US, or something, plus she already knows it. Of course, I may have misunderstood. So, it's not Spanish or Arabic or w/e... it'd be on top of the other languages. At which point, one thing to ask yourself is "should I teach my kids every language I happen to know?". And I think the answer to that is "no" (my kids are probably so grateful for my opinion on that, lol). 

 

Ain't that the truth!! I'm raising my daughter with Spanish & French & it's an uphill battle since she's absolutely convinced English is HER language. I keep plugging along though....

 

 

Yeah, I make mine learn Dutch, even though they don't want to (Broccoli thought it was fun at first, but I think Celery's whining has influenced him :glare: ). Too bad. Lucky for them, so far I haven't had the inclination to make them learn all the languages I know... 

[visitor]

My kids speak Arabic (classical Fosha) and Dutch . When they became 5 years old I added English . And this year we started with French ... I do believe a good Arabic background with reading , Grammer and lots of vocabulary is good start before starting to memorize Quran . But I have seen lots of Chinese and other non Arabic speaking kids memorizing Quran without any Arabic background . But for better understanding the Quran and Tafsir Arabic is a must .

Edited September 13, 2017 by visitor

[Susannah]

This is very encouraging. I have a child who loves language, too, but is still learning to read well. I've been feeling stressed because I'd like to give her the gift of a foreign language before high school, but I am not fluent in anything. And it's been hard to find materials that are engaging for her and not boring (either over her head or below her level.)  Thanks for sharing the success story of your child. I have a "one and only" right now, so I can't learn from her other siblings!

 

 

 

I agree with this. This has been the case with my kids as well.  

 

My oldest was fluent in Brazilian Portuguese due to immersion.  He even slept walked in Portuguese.   Unfortunately, languages learned as children also require "maintenance."  He has lost it.  I am sure if he re-immersed himself in it that it would come back.  But, at this particular moment, he can't remember much. (ETA: maintaining his Portuguese was not something he was ever interested in doing.  I am sure his sister would have maintained her fluency bc it would have mattered to her.)

 

My 2nd oldest dd started French in elementary school, but it was total dabbling b/c I don't know any French.  She really didn't start making real progress until she was able to self-study rather seriously. I would say that was around 6th or 7th grade.  She is now fluent and can watch French movies while building puzzles and understand everything.  (I take multi-tasking and full comprehension as a sign of fluency.)  She didn't start Russian until 9th grade and made rapid progress and has an excellent accent.  She is definitely not fluent in Russian but she hopes to be by the end of college.

 

She started Latin in 6th grade.  She mastered Latin quickly and it helped her other 2 languages.  

 

She loves languages.  I wouldn't have changed how we approached things at all.  I would not have started any earlier for languages that needed to be studied.  Immersion, otoh, I would be all over if it was something available.  Our ds became fluent quickly and easily at age 7.  Learning the language through playing with friends was definitely an easier and simpler method!!

 

[quelle.que.soit]

I think it depends on the individual.
Ours are first language French, second English, third Scots Gaelic.  We started very early with Latin (like 2 years old).  They can also study whatever languages they choose additionally.  My oldest knows some spoken Mandarin and Russian, but is much more conversation in Spanish, and the 2nd is interested in Spanish because the oldest is, so they speak it to each other some during the day.  I am conversational enough to still be able to keep up with them in Spanish at this point.  My oldest can read both French and English at the same comfort level, and quite a bit of Latin.  Only writes in French at this point, though.
There are many, many cultures around the worth where families speak 4 and 5 languages a day.  It seems to be a North American idea to think one should put limitations on them.

[TrustAndLove]

My DD8 has three languages: English, French and Mandarin. Spending more time on language definitely will reduce time on other areas. So best is to combine them together. Such as watching latest entertainment movies in less fluent languages (for topics requires in depth knowledge, we have to rely on English) ; finding opportunities to communicate with different people in those languages; listening to audio books...

 

If kids do not get to use those languages, they will not be able to develop the fluency. Also choosing very different languages helps too. That is the reason I prefer not to add Spanish - it is too close to French.

[Halley]

On 8/25/2017 at 1:49 PM, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

Goals:  Maintain both native languages at similar levels throughout education.  Reach fluency in German (solid B2 level).  Reach "academic fluency" in Latin.

 

I think these are admirable goals. I am just thinking about how our homeschooling adventure will start (three kids, oldest is 3.5). Keeping the kids' levels similar in Fr/Eng is my main reason for homeschooling.

We also live in Switzerland (me= American, hubby= Swiss)! I learned Latin in high school and still remember how it gave me a great foundation for learning more languages as well as a great understanding of English grammar and vocabulary. 

I would love to talk to you more about your experiences with homeschooling in Switzerland!

[Matryoshka]

I started my kids with just exposure from pretty much birth (I focused on German and Spanish) - songs (sang to and with them, as well as listened to them on CD), I read them stories.  When they were 3 or so, I found a couple German playgroups where they could meet other kids being raised bilingual, and then at 5 signed them up for German Saturday School where they attended till grade 10.  For Spanish, a small group of us hired a teacher to give some immersion from about age 4-6, then I did more exposure type stuff with them on my own ( a rule was they could only watch cartoons in German or Spanish - no English!) and taught them grammar-based standard stuff in Spanish starting around grade 5 with a couple of friends.  None of that is really enough by itself, but I was trying to also strengthen that extrinsic motivation a PP mentioned - I think it's very helpful for kids to understand that other languages are used and spoken by real people in the real world, it's not just something mom made up to torture them, lol.  I also dragged them on a summer trip to Germany when the oldest two were 8, and one of them went again when she was 10.  We also had two Spanish exchange students for a summer each, and a German student for a year.

Now that they're pretty much all grown up (20 and 17 yo), I can attest that the whole intrinsic/extrinsic thing really does matter.  My dd who ended up loving languages and so has intrinsic motivation is not only really fluent in German and Spanish but also has become fluent in Catalán and has dabbled in Icelandic, Dutch, and Arabic.  She's studying linguistics and thinking of adding a translation certificate.

The other two are really not language kids.  One did make it to AP level and got 4's on both exams.  She understands a lot still, but she doesn't use the languages that much anymore.  She is thinking of doing a coop in Germany during college, though - she feels she learns best by true immersion (which you really can only get by living there).  She spent a summer with the German exchange student in Germany, and she feels like that helped her really learn to use/speak the language.  She's studying computer science and math.

The youngest is almost language-resistant, and starting young is the only reason she's even remotely bilingual.  She flew through levels 3 & 4 of German at the CC after Sat. School, and can understand quite a bit, but she can barely talk no less write (this is largely lack of will/interest).  She'll probably remember much more than most kids who take it in high school, but that's a super-low bar, lol!  I let her drop Spanish in middle school to focus on German.  I still think it was very good for her; I think it's a big part of what helped her become a grammar-whiz, but she's a testament that some kids will just never care without extrinsic motivation.  Our second Spanish exchange student almost inspired her to pick up Spanish again, but not quite, lol.

[Mabelen]

@Matryoshka My girls are now 21 and 14. I followed the one parent one language method from birth and have invested a lot of time and effort in providing a rich Spanish language environment for both of them. Neither of them have shown the inclination to do much more than what I required language wise.

My older one took Spanish up to AP Spanish and got a 5. She was satisfied with that. She placed out of her college foreign language requirements and although she considered taking another language for a bit, she ended up not having space because she went in undeclared and did quite a bit of exploring. She is very thankful about being raised bilingual though and has thanked me repeatedly for it. 

My younger one is a rising high school freshman. Her district requires one trimester of foreign language, while the UC-Cal State system requires 2 years. We have just gotten started with our plan for me to prepare her grammar wise for AP Spanish at school during her Junior year. While she is not language resistant, I have not yet seen any enthusiasm to do the heavy work required. She will happily watch Spanish made movies etc, but grammar, and actively speaking the language are a different matter.