Chemistry or Organic Chemistry? Future Science Path?

[Saddlemomma]

DD is currently in 9th grade (we just started this week) and finishing her Joy of Science course from GCP.  I would like to have her do Chemistry before Biology.  She will have finished Algebra I and possibly Geometry.  

 

DD's interests lie in learning about the human body and how to treat it with herbal remedies/holistic methods.  She says she doesn't want to do this professionally, but rather it's a secondary interest.  She actually says she's more interested in history "at the moment".  Who knows what direction she'll eventually pursue.

 

In any case, she's just recently discovered her "love" of all things science (thanks to GCP), specifically Physics, Chemistry, & Physiology, as if that's not enough. She's so passionate about science now that she's voluntarily taking notes on her own and acing all the online quizzes!  This is astounding all by itself.  I already know she wants to take the GCP course entitled "Integrative Medicine" as an elective (which I plan to integrate into a comprehensive health class) within the next few years.  Anyway, I was thinking Organic Chemistry would be better in the long run; followed by Biology and then Anatomy and Physiology.  She could then do a Physics course as an elective if she wants in the future. 

 

DD doesn't have a specific college or academic direction yet, but I want to make sure we plan for the best possible college scenario, however, I want to make sure we follow DD's interests as well. Being new to the high school adventure, I would appreciate some experienced guidance. What says the Hive?  Would there be a better path/plan to follow?

 

TIA

[maize]

An organic chemistry class usually has general introductory chemistry as a prerequisite.

Edited August 22, 2017 by maize

[Penelope]

I don't think you can really take a true organic chemistry course without understanding the basics of inorganic chemistry. Also, does the course include problems and some way to test your knowledge?

[Alessandra]

An organic chemistry class usually has general introductory chemistry as a prerequisite.

This.

 

Also, I would want to make sure that courses had a decent lab component. I was not able to tell from the links.

[Targhee]

Yes, general chemistry is foundational to O-chem will actually be more useful in a Biology course anyway. Even in a college course of introductory biology for biology majors or a college level A&P course, general chemistry will serve you better. O-chem would be useful in the future if she was interested in pharm-chemistry, but I would think that bio-chemistry and molecular biology would be more useful for her interest (though after general chemistry and general biology). Besides, organic chemistry is usually considered much harder than general chemistry, but easier than Biochem (depending at which level you take each). You could do the general plan outlined above substituting inorganic (general) chemistry for o-chem.

 

Since she has finished Algebra I you might consider a path of Physics-Chemistry-Biology. If you do an algebra based physics you will be better prepared to do a rigorous inorganic chemistry course, and then Biology (AP even if she is interested). Then as a senior do A&P.

 

Another option would be to do general chemistry-biology-A&P-Physics (either algebra or calculus based depending on her math).

Edited August 22, 2017 by Targhee

[snowbeltmom]

I agree with everyone else that you can't study O-chem without having the background of a general chemistry course under your belt. If your D has completed Alg I, I would also recommend that you pursue the physics, chemistry, biology sequence so your daughter has a strong foundation for studying more advanced topics in college. 

 

If your daughter has a passion for science, you could double-up each year in your science courses in order to fit more classes into the 4 years of high school. 

 

Good luck in your planning.

[EKS]

Mastering the material in solid high school chemistry class will serve her well later on.  I recommend focusing on getting a good foundation in biology, chemistry, and physics and then if there is time adding science electives or DE courses.

 

Do you have a background in chemistry?  A serious study of organic chemistry is actually a pretty big deal that requires knowledge of general chemistry (which is why general chem is always a prerequisite for o-chem).  I would not list organic chemistry on a high school transcript without general chemistry and the course descriptions to back up the claim that both were college level, and I would say that listing such a course in the absence of these things will flag the transcript as overstating your child's accomplishments.

[Saddlemomma]

An organic chemistry class usually has general introductory chemistry as a prerequisite.

 

 

I don't think you can really take a true organic chemistry course without understanding the basics of inorganic chemistry. Also, does the course include problems and some way to test your knowledge?

 

Based upon what you are both saying, I found this text which has been used by those taking both organic and inorganic Chemistry: Foundations of General, Organic, and Biological Chemistry. Using this text, I could line up lectures from both GCP's general Chemistry and Organic Chemistry courses.  This text does include problems and offers an accompanying study guide w/solutions manual.  In addition, it's always been my plan for DD to do the GCP Chemistry, 2nd Ed., course over next summer.  This course is specifically designed to teach the Algebra used in a standard Chemistry course.  I figure it would be a refresher and prepare her for the math she'll encounter in Chemistry. 

[Saddlemomma]

Thanks all!  I will go ahead and pursue GCP's general Chemistry class instead using the text recommended by their study guide and including experiments.  I will still plan to have her take the GCP Chemistry, 2E math course over next summer to prepare her for general Chem.  Depending upon how she does with that (she really HATES math) we will either pursue Physics or Biology next. I really appreciate everyone's input.  :001_smile:

[nixpix5]

Something else to consider for a science elective if she has those secondary interests might be microbiology, biochemistry and/or neurobiology as a semester class. O chem is quite rigorous and requires a year of college Gen chem at a minimum.

[lewelma]

The only class that was commented on in my ds's transcript during his admissions interview was his organic chemistry class. And he has a heck of a lot of high level classes. DS did AP chem and then a half class if orgo. Just saying that it apparently stands out.

[Dicentra]

I'm in the process of developing an introductory organic chemistry/biochemistry course for post-AP or post-Honours Chem high school students.  I'm teaching it to my daughter this year to see how it works out.  If it works, I'll offer it next fall with the other online chem courses.  It's definitely not a full university-level intro organic chem or biochem course - more of a survey course with some of each.  It does require at least honours chem - preferably AP Chem - before taking it.  I'm using a text similar to the McMurry one Saddlemomma linked above.  It's an intro chem text for allied health students: https://www.amazon.com/General-Organic-Biological-Chemistry-Structures/dp/0321750896/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1503455516&sr=8-4&keywords=timberlake+chemistry. I'll also be supplementing with sections from Klein's "Organic Chemistry" and his study guide "Organic Chemistry as a Second Language".

 

I agree with the others - a rock-solid basis in general chemistry is needed before organic chem.

[Dmmetler]

O-chem is also just plain hard. The better those foundational chem skills are the better. (DD's bio mentor has said that if it's a choice between an extra bio class and an extra chem class, do chem-because that's where her bio majors tend to struggle. DD plans to be a herpetologist). Having said that, if you can get your hands on the Chemistry in the Community teachers manual, it incorporates more O-chem and bio chem. I wouldn't use it as the only chem for a bio major-it's designed to be a more conceptual chem for those not majoring in STEM, but there's some good stuff in it to add to another class.

[Dicentra]

O-chem is also just plain hard. The better those foundational chem skills are the better. (DD's bio mentor has said that if it's a choice between an extra bio class and an extra chem class, do chem-because that's where her bio majors tend to struggle. DD plans to be a herpetologist). Having said that, if you can get your hands on the Chemistry in the Community teachers manual, it incorporates more O-chem and bio chem. I wouldn't use it as the only chem for a bio major-it's designed to be a more conceptual chem for those not majoring in STEM, but there's some good stuff in it to add to another class.

 

Confession...  I loved - LOVED - organic chem from the moment I first set eyes on the content. :D  I thought it was much easier and more logical than inorganic chem.  After I realized that pretty much any mechanism was based on "positive attracts negative and vice versa", the logic of synthesis just opened up.  It was a beautiful thing. :)  It also explains why I majored in organic chem. :)

 

[Alice]

Confession...  I loved - LOVED - organic chem from the moment I first set eyes on the content. :D  I thought it was much easier and more logical than inorganic chem.  After I realized that pretty much any mechanism was based on "positive attracts negative and vice versa", the logic of synthesis just opened up.  It was a beautiful thing. :)  It also explains why I majored in organic chem. :)

 

 

 

Me too. I loved Organic. It just made sense to me. 

 

I agree that you need a solid Intro Chem class before tackling Organic. 

[pinkelement]

I didn't read through all of the thread, so if it was mentioned, disregard it. If your daughter likes Great Courses format, their Chemistry and Our Universe course by Ron Davis is excellent. It does give more than is needed for the high school chemistry course, but if you have a textbook, you should be able to sort it out. Or dive right in, his explanations are excellent and he assumes no prior knowledge of the subject. It really helped me to understand the subject to teach the course last year to our little coop. And yes, I am glad we did chemistry last year before doing biology this year.

[Saddlemomma]

I didn't read through all of the thread, so if it was mentioned, disregard it. If your daughter likes Great Courses format, their Chemistry and Our Universe course by Ron Davis is excellent. It does give more than is needed for the high school chemistry course, but if you have a textbook, you should be able to sort it out. Or dive right in, his explanations are excellent and he assumes no prior knowledge of the subject. It really helped me to understand the subject to teach the course last year to our little coop. And yes, I am glad we did chemistry last year before doing biology this year.

 

I did mention up-thread that we will go ahead and do regular Chemistry based upon the excellent advice on this thread.  Any Chem I planned would definitely be done with GCP. DD absolutely loves all of GCP and wouldn't want to do a regular curriculum.  Therefore, I'm planning to proceed with Chemistry, 2E over the summer of 2018 (this is a "math for Chemistry" lecture series) and then proceed with Chemistry and Our Universe (that was my go-to if the consensus was not to do GCP's Organic Chem course.)  I've already got the recommended text according to the GCP study guide in my wishlist and ready to purchase.  I'm also going to purchase the following to flesh out the course:

• Chemisry: Concepts & Problems
• Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments

DD also wants to explore the science of Toxicology as well as the history of it (which we are integrating with Ancient History this year), so I'm thinking it would be a good elective for DD to take along with Chemistry next year.  There are several excellent resources and texts I can get through Amazon.  GCP has given this kid such a love of science that she's like a totally new student.  She hated all science before I introduced her to The Joy of Science out of pure desperation to get her interested in Science.  What a change....now all she wants to do is science!

 

Thanks for reinforcing DD's belief that the GCP courses are much better than any standard science curriculum.

 

Thanks to everyone else who chimed in and helped me decide which was the best course to take.  I knew you all would help to steer me in the right direction :thumbup1: