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Ktgrok

Rant! My fertility is NOT a disease!!!!!!

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In other words, please do not react in horror in front of my children when you hear how many I have. Or say loudly how I had better not have another one. Or call me up and ask if my husband has had his vasectomy yet, and then get upset he hasn't. 

 

These are children, not tumors or heart attacks. I happen to like them, in fact. I don't mind the "hands full" comments, I do have my hands full. But when you say things that imply that I have too many, or that more would be a terrible misfortune, I want to hit you. Hard. Especially when you say it in front of my kids, who are then left to wonder if it is a bad thing that they were born. 

 

:cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

 

I've gotten said comments at least half a dozen times in the past two weeks. And I'm over it. I get not everyone wants a big family, but that's fine. Don't have one. But unless I am having sex with you my family planning methods are none of your business. 

 

 

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It's because you crossed the "threshold" of 3.

 

I remember being in the hospital with my fourth who had some liver problems as a newborn.  I can't count the times I was asked if she was my first and, when I said--no, my fourth--jaws dropped and they said--oh, my!

 

One time, I looked over at the Orthodox Jewish woman in the waiting room, whose sixth was on her lap, and we smiled and kinda rolled our eyes.  What I began to do is say to myself--yes, I am a superwoman!  (Of course, my good friend has 9, which makes me feel like a light weight. LOL)

 

The other interesting thing, which I liked, but doesn't happen now that I leave them at home, is that older women in the grocery story would come up quietly to me and tell me how seeing us reminded her of shopping with her 4, 5 or 6 children. They were so delighted to see our "big" family that it made me feel like I'd done my good deed of the day by showing up with my crew.

 

So, remember--you are a super woman.

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Ugh! So sorry that happens to you!!

We have had so many more comments about our family size with the addition of the fourth. Somehow people feel more entitled to share their opinion when you get past three?? I don't get it! Yes, we had two girls then we "got our boy" and therefore we must be crazy to go past three.  :huh:

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I liked your post in commiseration, not because sucky people expressing sucky opinions is likable. My fourth turned 1 last month. I totally get it. Hugs, Mama. You're doing a good job, and I bet your kids know just how loved and wanted they really are.

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It's because you crossed the "threshold" of 3.

 

I remember being in the hospital with my fourth who had some liver problems as a newborn.  I can't count the times I was asked if she was my first and, when I said--no, my fourth--jaws dropped and they said--oh, my!

 

One time, I looked over at the Orthodox Jewish woman in the waiting room, whose sixth was on her lap, and we smiled and kinda rolled our eyes.  What I began to do is say to myself--yes, I am a superwoman!  (Of course, my good friend has 9, which makes me feel like a light weight. LOL)

 

The other interesting thing, which I liked, but doesn't happen now that I leave them at home, is that older women in the grocery story would come up quietly to me and tell me how seeing us reminded her of shopping with her 4, 5 or 6 children. They were so delighted to see our "big" family that it made me feel like I'd done my good deed of the day by showing up with my crew.

 

So, remember--you are a super woman.

 

I got similar comments and I only have 3.  I once ran into one of my former high school teachers when I was out with my three kids shortly after my youngest was born.  He looked at me and my kids in disgust and said, "You do know how kids are made, right?"  I have never slapped/punched someone, but I really was tempted to punch that smirk off his face that day.

 

:grouphug: Katy.

 

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It's a strange thing.  I've had a few comments lately, mostly not offensive, just surprised.  Four does seem to be the magic number.

 

I get some really shocked looks when I am out with six, including the two I babysit - they all look like they could be siblings.  I've had people ask if they are all mine and say "good!" when I say no.

 

I do think there are valid reason to think about numbers of kids born - either to a particular family, or in a worldwide sense.  However - I really do not like the way in popular thinking reproduction seems to have become more of a lifestyle choice than a biological fact.

 

 

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"He looked at me and my kids in disgust and said, "You do know how kids are made, right?""

 

Gosh, no, please tell me!  :rolleyes:

 

If you punch the next person to do that, I'll gladly pay your bail. What a jerk!

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We had three and then the Lord had other plans for when DD came - making it a four child family. When I told my DAD (whom I love dearly and am close to) that we were pregnant with our fourth, he shook his head in dismay and walked away. Ouch.

 

I am not sure why people think it is appropriate to comment on peoples' family size except to give encouragement or a compliment.

 

 

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I got similar comments and I only have 3.  I once ran into one of my former high school teachers when I was out with my three kids shortly after my youngest was born.  He looked at me and my kids in disgust and said, "You do know how kids are made, right?"  I have never slapped/punched someone, but I really was tempted to punch that smirk off his face that day.

 

:grouphug: Katy.

 

 

During the 0 population days in the early 70s, my mom had folks let the door close on her (instead of holding it until she held it) several times when she was pregnant with her 3rd in 3 1/2 years.

 

sigh

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:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Wait, don't you only have 4 now?

 

 

I'm going to admit that until I started homeschooling, having 4, let alone 5, kids seemed an unfathomable amount. Now I'm like, psh, that's all you've got?!? A good friend just had her eighth and she told me that I was the only person who seemed happy for them - even their parents were not so pleased. And that made me so sad :/

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I do think there are valid reason to think about numbers of kids born - either to a particular family, or in a worldwide sense.  However - I really do not like the way in popular thinking reproduction seems to have become more of a lifestyle choice than a biological fact.

 

Sure. And if you ask me my opinion on population growth and what the ideal reproductive rate right now is, I'll surely tell you.

 

But once the bun's out of the oven and buttered, it's a little late! If you've already got three, or six, or twenty nine children, how vicious do I have to be to be rude in front of them? I assume that if anybody ever wants my opinion, they'll ask. (The exception here is families like the Duggars, who have chosen to put their children and parenting in the public eye. They lost the right to not get random unsolicited opinions when they did that. But large families who mostly strive to live out of the spotlight can be assumed to have a healthy desire for privacy.)

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When I had my third both sides of the family freaked. My girls are close in age so even the doctor commented. His first words were to ask if I had a better plan so it wouldn't happen again.

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Comments like that are much more a reflection of people's thoughts on their own capabilities or lack there of than yours IMO.  Same judgy garbage can be said about homeschooling, doing committed activities with kids, etc any number of things off of the beaten path.  "Aren't you worried about college?" "I could never drive that far for my kids" blah blah blah ...

 

I also think people assume a choice that isn't mainstream is some sort of judgement of their choice in many cases.  I personally don't think everyone should have many kids or homeschool or have a calendar like ours.  Everyone is different and that's great.  I need a t-shirt printed.

 

 

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I had strangers said insulting stuff for my having two under two many years ago until I said infertility issues and then they were a little embarrassed.

 

Are they strangers or relatives. My husband's parents, aunts and uncles grew up in poverty partially due to family sizes so they would make remarks on finance. At one time there was not enough food to go round. My MIL said I should go to work to afford another child when my kids were toddlers so that is how his relatives think. We don't intend to make any of his relatives guardians so thank goodness for that.

 

Strangers are just weirdly opinionated and we have just ignored in case someone is just picking a fight.

 

Relatives are boundary issues which is why I only talk to a few of hubby's aunts who make more sense than my in-laws. All my relatives with big families happened to be wealthy enough to have paid daily help for nanny and housework. However my blunt relatives are tactful when it comes to kids and finances.

 

I had friends who went through miscarriages and IVF. Strangers say the weirdest hurting things too. A friend divorced over wanting kids and her ex doesn't. Another friend is undergoing divorce for the same reason except they do have kids and are now fighting badly over child support. It's just a messy world :(

 

:grouphug:

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Katie that stinks.

 

I always rejoice in a new life. Even if I know the circumstances and have an opinion that it was a bad idea..,,,what are you going to do except cheer on the parents so they can do the best they can.

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Sure. And if you ask me my opinion on population growth and what the ideal reproductive rate right now is, I'll surely tell you.

 

But once the bun's out of the oven and buttered, it's a little late! If you've already got three, or six, or twenty nine children, how vicious do I have to be to be rude in front of them? I assume that if anybody ever wants my opinion, they'll ask. (The exception here is families like the Duggars, who have chosen to put their children and parenting in the public eye. They lost the right to not get random unsolicited opinions when they did that. But large families who mostly strive to live out of the spotlight can be assumed to have a healthy desire for privacy.)

 

The thing that strikes me about this population growth thing though is that a lot of modernized nations have neutral or negative population growth.   Of course that means some people will have more and other less.  But it seems a little out of place in that context to be worried about suddenly people will start having too many kids.  A precipitous drop within a generation or two isn't necessarily a great option either.

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When I read your post, I looked in your signature to see how many kids you have. Then I counted a second, and a third, time.

And I still didn't understand why people were saying that to you when you only have four kids. Seriously? Not that it's okay to say 

those comments at any time, but really. There were four kids in my family when I was growing up. Why do people think it's that big of a deal?

I only have two and that was my choice but I don't think it's anyone's business, other than you and your dh, how many kids you have.

 

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That's so rude. Is it random strangers making those comments, or people that you know?

 

I only have three kids but I got a weird comment about it once. I ran into the mom of a former high school classmate and while we were chatting, she said, "I hear you have an enormous number of kids!" 

 

I said, "Nope, I only have three."

 

And she said, "Yes, I know - three is so many!"

 

I thought it was pretty strange, but then she went on to tell me that she was desperate for grandkids but her dd had decided not to have kids and her ds and his wife were having fertility problems. So I guess to her, three kids really did seem like a lot.

Edited by Selkie

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I have noticed a lot of moms I meet think that having more kids is far more difficult than it really is.  Sometimes even two seems overwhelming to them.  So, that may be a part of it.

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Ugh, I'm sorry! I feel like a lot of the time people don't know what to say and instead of "what beautiful children!" other, less kind words come out of their mouths. 

 

As a mom of 1 who wanted 3, I can tell you that I hear the comments from the other side regularly, though thankfully not as much now that DS is a bit older. "Are you going to have a little brother or sister for this guy?" "When are you planning on having another?" "You're not planning on making him an only, are you?" all said with an attitude of "only's are freaks, don't do that to your kid." 

 

I finally started answering with a bit of snark, like "thanks for commenting on my secondary infertility" which shut em up. :-) 

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I've had a few people ask me if there was more than one father involved!  No logic in that question, of course.  A pregnancy is still 9 months, either way!

 

 

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Yep, people are crazy.  I have to admit that I almost always get positive comments, usually form older people.  Amusingly, we get comments form kids as well, like, "Mommy, that family has FOUR!  Can we have more kids too?" which I'm sure is awkward for parents who have decided they are done.  

 

But we do get the occasional negative one.  My MIL, who is in most ways a very good MIL, is horrified that we might have another, and she was very negative when we announced we were expecting number 4.She likes him now though.  :-)

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Some of my family members were worried about us having more kids.  I am much more sympathetic to that - they are worried about things like having enough money, or my health.

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We had three and then the Lord had other plans for when DD came - making it a four child family. When I told my DAD (whom I love dearly and am close to) that we were pregnant with our fourth, he shook his head in dismay and walked away. Ouch.

 

I am not sure why people think it is appropriate to comment on peoples' family size except to give encouragement or a compliment.

 

My mom was very disappointed when we announced #4. That's why we waited until the half-way point to say anything about #5.

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I got similar comments and I only have 3.  I once ran into one of my former high school teachers when I was out with my three kids shortly after my youngest was born.  He looked at me and my kids in disgust and said, "You do know how kids are made, right?"  I have never slapped/punched someone, but I really was tempted to punch that smirk off his face that day.

 

:grouphug: Katy.

 

Next time, say "Yes! And I like it!"

 

OP, I get comments like that from time to time. (Our librarian once told me our family was "too large to use the computers at the same time".)  I am sorry it happens to you too!

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I have four boys.  At least once a week someone is trying to nominate me for sainthood.  People assume that it's some Herculean task.  (I do have a high tolerance for noise and don't expect a spotless house.  But we've only had 1 broken bone, a set of staples, and 2 incidences with stitches.)

 

Three was tolerated but four really does seem to be the point where people felt that they had some right to make comments on our personal decisions.  But when they are all the same sex, it makes a difficult issue for the "strangers."  They are horrified but the number of children, but feel that you absolutely must have at least one of the opposite sex.

 

 

 

 

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We had three and then the Lord had other plans for when DD came - making it a four child family. When I told my DAD (whom I love dearly and am close to) that we were pregnant with our fourth, he shook his head in dismay and walked away. Ouch.

 

I am not sure why people think it is appropriate to comment on peoples' family size except to give encouragement or a compliment.

 

My mom actually said, "are you sure you want another baby?" It wasn't until later I realized she was implying abortion was an option. Um...we had just told you were spoke to my Ob and a midwife and my bariatric surgeon before trying! Yes, we are sure. 

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:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Wait, don't you only have 4 now?

 

 

I'm going to admit that until I started homeschooling, having 4, let alone 5, kids seemed an unfathomable amount. Now I'm like, psh, that's all you've got?!? A good friend just had her eighth and she told me that I was the only person who seemed happy for them - even their parents were not so pleased. And that made me so sad :/

 

Yup, just 4! Doesn't seem like that many to me! In fact, I wish daily I could go back and stick an extra two kids in the 10 year gap I have between numbers one and two. 

SaveSave

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Are they strangers or relatives. 

 

Both. My mom is the one that called (while I was at the car dealership dealing with all that) to find out if my husband had his vasectomy yet. She asks every time she sees me. I finally told her that it's not okay to call up other adults to comment on their birth control methods. That it crosses a line. 

 

She did later text me and apologize. But still. I know she prays that I won't have any more kids. 

 

And to be fair, i don't plan on more. But this crap makes me want to have one for spite, lol. 

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There are always jerky strangers out there somewhere, but I don't understand how people's own families can be so unkind.  :(

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: , Katie. 

 

As a mother of an only and as someone with fertility issues, it was also hurtful to have people ask when we were going to have another. "What a beautiful/delightful child / family" is always appropriate.  :)

Edited by MercyA

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Hugs. You are right, that's even more hurtful. 

 

Why do people think other people's family planning is their business?!?!

Ugh, I'm sorry! I feel like a lot of the time people don't know what to say and instead of "what beautiful children!" other, less kind words come out of their mouths. 

 

As a mom of 1 who wanted 3, I can tell you that I hear the comments from the other side regularly, though thankfully not as much now that DS is a bit older. "Are you going to have a little brother or sister for this guy?" "When are you planning on having another?" "You're not planning on making him an only, are you?" all said with an attitude of "only's are freaks, don't do that to your kid." 

 

I finally started answering with a bit of snark, like "thanks for commenting on my secondary infertility" which shut em up. :-) 

 

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I got comments from strangers and family, too. The head-scratchers were from the ones I knew were pro-choice.

 

My grandma once said about one of my pregnancies "I'm happy if you're happy, I guess." Well, thanks for that. :lol:

Edited by Miss Peregrine

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My mom actually said, "are you sure you want another baby?" It wasn't until later I realized she was implying abortion was an option. Um...we had just told you were spoke to my Ob and a midwife and my bariatric surgeon before trying! Yes, we are sure. 

 

 

:ohmy: 

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Ugh, I'm sorry! I feel like a lot of the time people don't know what to say and instead of "what beautiful children!" other, less kind words come out of their mouths.

 

As a mom of 1 who wanted 3, I can tell you that I hear the comments from the other side regularly, though thankfully not as much now that DS is a bit older. "Are you going to have a little brother or sister for this guy?" "When are you planning on having another?" "You're not planning on making him an only, are you?" all said with an attitude of "only's are freaks, don't do that to your kid."

 

I finally started answering with a bit of snark, like "thanks for commenting on my secondary infertility" which shut em up. :-)

Yep. Cuts both ways. I'm an only and have an only.

 

I guess two is the only acceptable number?? Unless they're the same gender. Then of course one gets, "Aren't you going to try for a girl/boy?" Sigh.

 

If I see a large group out somewhere, I'll sometimes ask, "Are all these beautiful children yours?" If I get a "Yes," I follow up with, "Oh, I think big families are so cool!"

Edited by Hoggirl

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I have 10.  Youngest is 13.  My mom passed away when #5 was a month old.  I got to where I would not tell my dad (who was from a family of 10!) that I was pregnant until I was 5-6 months along. I have had miscarriages he knew nothing about.  When I was pregnant with #4 he called my SIL and ranted to her for awhile!  It was finally my stepmother who told him that if I was not asking him to feed and cloth my kids, he needed to be quiet about it.  He did ask after #10 if that was it.

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I guess two is the only acceptable number?? Unless they're the same gender. Then of course one gets, "Aren't you going to try for a girl/boy?" Sigh.

 

Ugh. If I see that somebody has one and is expecting another, I might ask - and then I say either "How nice, one of each!" or "How nice, two the same!" or "How nice, it's lovely to be surprised!"

 

Seriously, it's not that hard to just say something nice.

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Welcome to my world. You can squeeze in next to me at our table. (((Hugs)))

 

This week I happened to have gone to Sams with only my four daughters and a woman asked if the baby was a boy or girl. I said girl and she said, "oh god. You poor thing wanting a boy so bad and got another girl." I was going to just smile and move on without correcting her. But my dd8 piped up with, "Oh we have 7 brothers, we just decided to keep them even though they aren't girls because we love them anyways."

 

I about died laughing at dd8 and the lady's horrific look as she tried to add 4 + 7.

 

I'll take that dumb stuff over the people who say some form of, "OMG. You should stop. What if one of them ends up diabetic like your husband?!"

 

We have this crazy notion that we love our kids even if they got a chronic illness. Kind of like how I think my type 1 diabetic husband is still a life worth living and loving. Jerks. Don't get me wrong, diabetes absolutely sucks donkey balls, but I wouldn't regret a child bc they had it and I don't regret marrying my Dh. Same goes for kids on the spectrum. Yeah. I know. It's no picnic. But I happen to still love them and they happen to still be amazing and wonderful people.

 

I want to point out that I'm more concerned about people being heartless selfish jerks than having any illness I can possibly imagine. The world needs as many good and kind people, regardless of their physical condition, as it can get these days. I'm just doing my best part to make them.😉

 

Mostly I just smile uncomfortably and say it's not that bad really and then talk to my kids about it in the van. Too busy to engage in discussion most of the time, but I try to be positive. Sometimes I fail epicly though.

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The thing that strikes me about this population growth thing though is that a lot of modernized nations have neutral or negative population growth.   Of course that means some people will have more and other less.  But it seems a little out of place in that context to be worried about suddenly people will start having too many kids.  A precipitous drop within a generation or two isn't necessarily a great option either.

 

You're right on those points - and trust me, it bugs the heck out of me that lots of people who are anti-population growth in some other countries are pro-population growth among certain people in THIS country. Bigots gonna bigot, I guess.

 

But a slow, reasonable decline in the world population over a few generations is probably not going to destroy civilization. And since many people have no children or only one child, there's room for other people to have more children even if we aim, in general, for negative population growth. In developed nations, as you said, it more than evens out, and my neighbor having four or fourteen kids doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. (Alternatively, we can all live more sustainably. I mean, the goal is to live within our planetary means. I'm happy with however we attain that. And there's one advantage to large families - all those hand-me-downs mean you're consuming less per person!)

Edited by Tanaqui

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But my dd8 piped up with, "Oh we have 7 brothers, we just decided to keep them even though they aren't girls because we love them anyways."

 

Good girl. I hope you bought her a cookie!

 

I'll take that dumb stuff over the people who say some form of, "OMG. You should stop. What if one of them ends up diabetic like your husband?!"

 

Then obviously that'll be the one you sacrifice to the underworld. It's always good to have a spare.

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Your mom asked about your husband's vasectomy? EWWWWWW! What on earth? I'd be texting her like OMG mom just had the BEST unprotected sex. Know you were concerned! XOXO, Katie

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Oh, man. That is especially hard when it is your own mother. My MIL is like that. Except she is constantly pushing me to have my tubes tied. It hurts. It goes against the idea one cherishes of the doting grandparent, the one who pesters her children for more grandchildren. I just try to go the "Cornelia Presenting Her Children as Her Treasures" route.

 

(I had someone gasp to me once, "You're not having another, are you? GEEZ." I comforted myself with the cruel and smug personal opinion that his own children were not very nice. Of course, that is less comforting when the person whose children you are personally opining on is your own parent, or your spouse's parent!)

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Amazingly I don't get a lot of comments on this anymore, except wide eyes and "you have your hands full!" comments. Have enough close enough together and apparently people just give up and assume you're crazy (and don't want to provoke the crazy person).

 

It stings a lot more from close friends and family, compared to strangers. I usually make fun of them and hem and haw over having another half dozen in this next decade of life :p

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Your mom asked about your husband's vasectomy? EWWWWWW! What on earth? I'd be texting her like OMG mom just had the BEST unprotected sex. Know you were concerned! XOXO, Katie

Aaaand then there was this one. Yep, I have to change my shirt now.

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You're right on those points - and trust me, it bugs the heck out of me that lots of people who are anti-population growth in some other countries are pro-population growth among certain people in THIS country. Bigots gonna bigot, I guess.

 

But a slow, reasonable decline in the world population over a few generations is probably not going to destroy civilization. And since many people have no children or only one child, there's room for other people to have more children even if we aim, in general, for negative population growth. In developed nations, as you said, it more than evens out, and my neighbor having four or fourteen kids doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. (Alternatively, we can all live more sustainably. I mean, the goal is to live within our planetary means. I'm happy with however we attain that. And there's one advantage to large families - all those hand-me-downs mean you're consuming less per person!)

 

Yeah, I think slow decline is the ideal.  And it's good if places with more room can have space for places with too many - though there are probably limits to how fast that can happen without problems.

 

I think all living more sustainably is an important issue.  There is a tendency for people with fewer kids to have more disposable income, which ironically can mean they get used to a higher standard of living and spend more per person.  Things like more new clothes, airplane vacations .  In the west I think to some extent, smaller families have inadvertently pushed up the expectations for a middle class lifestyle, worldwide.  I do't think that's actually sustainable with even moderate population levels.

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My mother made a face recently when I mentioned possibly having another. (We have 5 boys and I'm 43 - we aren't trying/aren't avoiding.) Physically and mentally I'm done, but emotionally I'm not because I love me some squishy newborns. I also feel like having another just to spite her!

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I have to say I am just fascinated by large families. I try not to stare too much or if I do I smile and say something nice like, 'lovely family.'  

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