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I'm looking for a language arts program for the upcoming school year. We have never found a LA program we actually liked. (Other than Aesop's Grammar from RFWP, but that was a one year thing.) Has anyone tried The Good and The Beautiful? I downloaded the free ones, but I'm still not completely sure. Any other suggestions welcome.

 

This year I will have a Kindergartener, 1st grader, 4th grader, and two sixth graders in addition to a newborn and a toddler. (Baby will be here is about 2 months.) So, older kids being able to do most or all work independently is a big big need around here.

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I looked at 2 and 3, and when I realized the introductory geography page was exactly the same both years, and both stating that the breaking of Pangaea happened 4000 years ago because of the tower of babel, I pushed it aside.  To be honest, even without that I'm not sure we would have used the program as intended.  With everything integrated it seemed like more busy work than we needed or wanted at the time.  We ended up going with ELTL instead.  I can't write a review on that yet because we start in September but I do like the amount of work from what I have planned out weekly. 

Edited by HomeAgain
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I have Level 7. We will begin it next week. I can't speak to the younger levels, but Level 7 looks amazing. I've looked through all of the lessons & they do not contain busywork. I'm excited to see how it actually works with my son & if it will live up to my expectations.

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We are using levels 2, 4, and 7 for language arts. All three are hits here so far. We are two weeks in. There's a good balance of grammar, reading, writing and spelling. Geography is incorporated also which makes me happy! And for levels 4 and 7, they draw or paint some, which makes them happy!

It's a nice break from rod and staff and some of the other things we've used. Not sure how long we'll use it (after this year), but so far I am very pleased.

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We're only a week in but are enjoying it . . of course, we're still in the honeymoon stage.  I have kids in Levels 1, 2, 5 and 7.  My seventh grader has been the most vocal about really liking it.  My 5th grader doesn't like writing and has struggled a bit with some of those assignments but seems to be enjoying everything else.  My youngers love the color workbook style with the beautiful pictures.  So far it is going well and seems to be a "keeper".  I also have the handwriting books for the younger two and they are really liking those a lot.. There are drawing assignments interspersed which they are enjoying.

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We are using levels K, 3, 5 and 7. We are on around lesson 40.

 

I have tried lots of curriculum over the last 12 years. This is what I have been looking for. Wish I had used it with my olders. Love the writing instruction (this is the main reason I am using G&B). Grammar is good. Spelling and reading instruction is very good in lower levels. Really enjoy the art and geography. Kids are having fun with it. My kids really like the literature and I like the lit terms that are studied. Spreads the different LA subjects out throughout the lessons so it's enough change up to keep my kids excited to do more each day.

 

But, what works for our homeschool may not work for yours. My advice is to download and study 30-50 lessons to get the flow. If you like it print out the first 4 weeks and give it a try. Lessons get more challenging and build throughout each level. Be careful to place your child correctly as the levels and grade don't always match up. If it's too challenging they won't enjoy it as much. 3 of mine are one level less than their grade. My daughter is on the level as her grade. If we had started from the beginning with all of my dc I think we would be on higher levels. But I don't mind as they are learning and enjoying.

 

As some have stated it is all integrated, which I like, but may make it unusable for some. You will be able to tell by looking through the free downloads.

 

I really like using it with multiple kids. Keeps me from having to keep up with so many subjects for LA. I wish I had been thought this way 😊

 

Kristen

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We are using levels K, 3, 5 and 7. We are on around lesson 40.

 

I have tried lots of curriculum over the last 12 years. This is what I have been looking for. Wish I had used it with my olders. Love the writing instruction (this is the main reason I am using G&B). Grammar is good. Spelling and reading instruction is very good in lower levels. Really enjoy the art and geography. Kids are having fun with it. My kids really like the literature and I like the lit terms that are studied. Spreads the different LA subjects out throughout the lessons so it's enough change up to keep my kids excited to do more each day.

 

But, what works for our homeschool may not work for yours. My advice is to download and study 30-50 lessons to get the flow. If you like it print out the first 4 weeks and give it a try. Lessons get more challenging and build throughout each level. Be careful to place your child correctly as the levels and grade don't always match up. If it's too challenging they won't enjoy it as much. 3 of mine are one level less than their grade. My daughter is on the level as her grade. If we had started from the beginning with all of my dc I think we would be on higher levels. But I don't mind as they are learning and enjoying.

 

As some have stated it is all integrated, which I like, but may make it unusable for some. You will be able to tell by looking through the free downloads.

 

I really like using it with multiple kids. Keeps me from having to keep up with so many subjects for LA. I wish I had been thought this way 😊

 

Kristen

I did notice that the levels don't correspond exactly to grade level. I'd be looking at placing my 6th graders in Level 5 and my 4th grader in level 3.

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I did notice that the levels don't correspond exactly to grade level. I'd be looking at placing my 6th graders in Level 5 and my 4th grader in level 3.

Yes this is what I did. I'm so glad I put my 4th grader in level 3. The spelling rules review has been so worth it. My sixth grader is doing sometimes 2 lessons a day, but he is right where he needs to be (and really enjoying the water color lessons).

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We are well into 4 and 2 here. I plan to do a thorough review, as I promised months ago, later this week if the Lord is willing and the creek don't rise.

 

If I forget, please give me a kick in the pants :)

 

Kick in the pants 😆 we've been using TG&TB LA just over a week and so far so good...just wondering others thoughts on the program

Edited by samiesmith2000
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We liked Level three for the spelling and art. But, Level four is much easier. It is self-directed. She has things she reads aloud to me, but then she is independent. We are looking forward to Level five.

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I am pleased so far. This school year is going well. I am using level 2 with my 3rd grader, level 4 with my 6th grader, and level 7 with my 8th grader. The kids are really liking it and it seems appropriate for each kid. We started our school year July 24th.

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I am using Level 2 with my daughter. 

 

Cons:

(1) It is super fundy religious- I completely marked out several lessons and am modifying others. Some lessons the religion is so embedded there was no way to modify it, for others I found the exercise worthwhile even if I didn't want to phrase it like they did. 

(2) We are skipping the geography- besides the issues w/ the YE stuff it felt like busy work to me

(3) The lessons are very uneven, some might be a page and some might be 3 pages

(4) Her definition of "good" books and mine aren't the same. A good book seems to be one with some not so thinly veiled moral lesson, not necessarily well- written classic books

 

Pros:

(1) The reading and spelling instruction is solid

 

We are using WWE2 for our primary writing so we don't always do the writing in G&B. I mainly wanted this program to help solidify her reading and work on spelling and it has done that well. I have read some say the levels are advanced. I know my other 2 were slower to learn to read and would not have been able to complete 2nd grade in 2nd grade. This daughter, however, is a good reader and doing great with this level, I would recommend thoroughly looking through the levels and determine what placement is right for your child.

 

It is exceedingly preachy, the fundamentalist worldview permeates the program. I would not personally use this with a child that was working independently but with younger children, I am able to edit on the fly. YMMV. Obviously, if her view matches your own it will be just fine, her view, however, does not match my own at all.

 

I think it is worthwhile for us to continue for this year for our purposes but I do not think we will continue with higher levels.

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I'm thinking I will try it out with my 4th grader. But my 6th graders, I felt like it would just be too much redundant busy work, since they really only needed the Grammar portion. So, I'm doing Easy Grammar with those two. We'll see how it works out for my 4th grader. (Doing Level 3 with him. I think he could probably do Level 4, I need to look through it more, but he tends to shut down if the challenge is just too high. But he also doesn't do easy very well.)

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I am looking into TGATB Language Arts I am curious if any of you have new thoughts on this curriculum. Do you still like it? Can one of you explain how the spelling works exactly? In the sample pages it doesn’t appear there are any tests...do words just get added on each lesson? Would love to hear your updated reviews! Thank you!

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This is the second year we’ve used it, and have used or are using levels 1-5. Is it perfect? No, not for us. But for our family it’s the one the kids enjoy and the one that’s getting done. My 8 year old needed a different spelling program, so we skip the spelling in his book and instead use Spelling You See. We really make the curriculum work for us, not using it as something we need to do exactly as it’s written. Thankfully, you can view levels 1-5 in PDF and print what you want to give it a try. But in general we’ve been very happy and continue to purchase the hard copies. We’ve also done some of their science and are almost finished with their history (which we’ve had to modify a bit, but the kids really enjoy it). 

Regarding spelling, they teach different spelling rules and then offer practice through dictation. There are also sometimes worksheets to practice spelling. For example today we learned when to drop a y and add ies when making a noun ending in s plural. Then there was a page of 20 or so words to practice with. 

Edited by three4me

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Someone recommended this to me, and it seemed like a good idea and had rave reviews everywhere I looked.  Since it was inexpensive, last summer, I went ahead and ordered.  I didn't have time to look at it when it first arrived.  When I finally went through it, I instantly knew it was Mormon influenced.  All the artwork looked like 1800 and later southwest American and red stone rocks of Utah.  I was irritated since including art history was part of what sold me.  It also did not seem to include the classic authors, etc that was advertised, and I felt much of the content was sourced from the Mormons. It was too late (after 2 weeks) to return to the publisher so I sold it all on ebay.  I should have looked more thoroughly at pdfs online but I get tired of wading through all that.  Mostly, I purchased on recommendation of the person I knew.

Also, their wholesome booklist was really questionable to me since they rejected several books on American historical figures as not historically accurate.  

For Mormons, I'm sure it's great.  But for me, it did not appear non denominational Christian as advertised.

I ended up using Cottage Press instead and have been pretty happy with it.  

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On 2/26/2019 at 2:37 PM, parent said:

Someone recommended this to me, and it seemed like a good idea and had rave reviews everywhere I looked.  Since it was inexpensive, last summer, I went ahead and ordered.  I didn't have time to look at it when it first arrived.  When I finally went through it, I instantly knew it was Mormon influenced All the artwork looked like 1800 and later southwest American and red stone rocks of Utah.  I was irritated since including art history was part of what sold me.  It also did not seem to include the classic authors, etc that was advertised, and I felt much of the content was sourced from the Mormons. It was too late (after 2 weeks) to return to the publisher so I sold it all on ebay.  I should have looked more thoroughly at pdfs online but I get tired of wading through all that.  Mostly, I purchased on recommendation of the person I knew.

Also, their wholesome booklist was really questionable to me since they rejected several books on American historical figures as not historically accurate.  

For Mormons, I'm sure it's great.  But for me, it did not appear non denominational Christian as advertised.

I ended up using Cottage Press instead and have been pretty happy with it.  

I don't understand this. I have used far more curriculum than I care admit and they all teach their religion TGAB doesn't. I think mainly people complain about TGAB because they have something against Mormons. I have never seen similar complaints about CLE or Rod and staff, or Abeka, Or BJU, or many others. They all have their values stated right up front the same as TGAB does. Yes there are "Mormon people" used for quotes but there are many, many other people from other religions quoted too. As long as direct doctrine isn't taught (which its not in TGAB I've looked through all the samples available extensively) I don't see the issue. With ANY curriculum I skip what isn't for my family and teach my children that too. I don't use anything TGAB except the preschool as it does not fit my homeschool style right now. I am not a TGAB zealot, I just hate seeing this "Mormon" accusation over and over again! 

Edited by seemesew
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2 hours ago, seemesew said:

I don't understand this. I have used far more curriculum than I care admit and they all teach their religion TGAB doesn't. I think mainly people complain about TGAB because they have something against Mormons. I have never seen similar complaints about CLE or Rod and staff, or Abeka, Or BJU, or many others. They all have their values stated right up front the same as TGAB does. Yes there are "Mormon people" used for quotes but there are many, many other people from other religions quoted too. As long as direct doctrine isn't taught (which its not in TGAB I've looked through all the samples available extensively) I don't see the issue. With ANY curriculum I skip what isn't for my family and teach my children that too. I don't use anything TGAB except the preschool as it does not fit my homeschool style right now. I am not a TGAB zealot, I just hate seeing this "Mormon" accusation over and over again! 

Yes, Abeka, BJU, etc states that they are Christian and the materials have Christian content.  TGATB states that it's non denominational Christian, but it has obvious mormon content.  Mormonism isn't Christianity.  They don't believe in the Jesus, the Bible, or even the God of Christianity.  They have their own book of mormon, their own defined Jesus, and their own defined God.  It is all completely different and incompatible with Christianity.  Theology is important to many people.  All I did was open the books, and the curriculum screamed mormonism just as if I walked into a mormon person's home and saw their paintings of their "angel moroni".  Do your research to find out what mormon doctrine truly is and how it compares to Christianity. 

I understand that you or others may take no issue with it, but it made ME uncomfortable.  I feel it is misrepresented to be marketed as Christian.  So, I made the post since it appears there are many Christians (since there are so many using materials like Abeka and BJU) on these boards who may want to know the truth about the underlying perspective of the books.  I certainly wouldn't have purchased if I had known it was mormon.  There really is no way a person can write a book and not include their own perspectives, beliefs, and prejudices.  I'm not interested in letting any part of those beliefs, with which I strongly disagree, influence my children.

I could say so much, but I won't.   That was my impression, my feelings, and my opinion.  I'm sure others will disagree and I don't care.   It is not for me, and I wish someone would have told me before I wasted the money and contributed to mormon proselytizing, because frankly, I think that is the ultimate goal.

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5 hours ago, parent said:

Yes, Abeka, BJU, etc states that they are Christian and the materials have Christian content.  TGATB states that it's non denominational Christian, but it has obvious mormon content.  Mormonism isn't Christianity.  They don't believe in the Jesus, the Bible, or even the God of Christianity.  They have their own book of mormon, their own defined Jesus, and their own defined God.  It is all completely different and incompatible with Christianity. 

 

You know, Apologia made these same statements about LDS people and it bit them in the rear, showing their prejudice and lack of concrete understanding of the religion.  I think you'd better be able to back yourself up if you're calling a sect of Christianity not Christians because they don't fit your narrow definition.

 

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There is zero...zero... Mormon doctrine in TGATB levels I had. preschool, 2nd, 3rd, 4th grades. Absolutely no Mormon-specific proselytizing. It isn't a matter of opinion: it is not there. 

And Mormons are Christians. They take the Gospels at face face value. They add their own stuff after that's established, but so do all other Christians. 

The art is  varied. 

The "literature" selections in the elementary grades are unbelievably, incredibly, mind-numbingly boring for anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the classics. But some kids really like that. One of my kids loved, for example, Pathway Readers, which have a similar low-key tone to TGATB stories. My other kid, though, thoroughly rebelled against a selection in the program (contained within the lesson book) about how it rains in the country and it rains in the city. It went on for so long 🤣 And they definitely for sure meet the mark Phillips set for them! No bad attitude goes unaddressed, no salacious material, etc... 

She/her company are very forthright about what TGATB is and what it is not. Their descriptions are very accurate ime. And, for crying out loud, they give five grades away to everyone completely for free! It's all right there for anyone to read themselves. There's a good bit of derision for irreligious people, but it's not specific to Mormon ideology. It's stuff like, "some people think God didn't make all this, isn't that bananas!" <<--- not a quote, but something along that line of thinking.

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2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

You know, Apologia made these same statements about LDS people and it bit them in the rear, showing their prejudice and lack of concrete understanding of the religion.  I think you'd better be able to back yourself up if you're calling a sect of Christianity not Christians because they don't fit your narrow definition.

 

 

Catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian,  Baptist, Methodist, Penecostal, etc are all Christian denominations.  They have similar core beliefs that there is one God who has triune parts of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Mormons believe that there are many gods, each ruling his own planet and having a wife (or wives).  They say their god has sex and produces spirit babies, who then are born to populate earth.   They believe if they are a good mormon, that they too can be a god one day.   Christian denominations do not believe any of that.  

That is one very obvious example, but they do not have the same beliefs about almost anything.  They are not a sect of Christianity.  The doctrine is not similar.  If you're not particularly religious, it may not bother you at all.

I did look at free sample online, and it looked nice.  When I flipped through the hard copy and saw it altogether, I could see it was mormon, just like I instantly can tell if a person is Mormon if they have mormon artwork on their walls.  Who else would include red rock landscapes as classic artwork?  And I was right, it is produced by a Mormon.

So, not really interested in religious discussions with anyone.  I'm sure I won't change your religion and you won't be changing my mind.  I posted exclusively for the benefit of other Christians who would like to be forewarned about mormon content.  I purchased level 3, I think.  I'm sure it has less content at young ages, and I would guess it would increase as they get older.  I only saw the one level.  Even at a young age,  I'm not interested in my kids seeing content from Joseph Smith as an authority or beloved figure in their school literature.  Even if was not obviously biased toward mormons, I wouldn't have used because of the lack of classic literature and classic artwork, which is specifically what I was wanting at the time.

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2 minutes ago, parent said:

 

Catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian,  Baptist, Methodist, Penecostal, etc are all Christian denominations.  They have similar core beliefs that there is one God who has triune parts of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Mormons believe that there are many gods, each ruling his own planet and having a wife (or wives).  They say their god has sex and produces spirit babies, who then are born to populate earth.   They believe if they are a good mormon, that they too can be a god one day.   Christian denominations do not believe any of that.  

That is one very obvious example, but they do not have the same beliefs about almost anything.  They are not a sect of Christianity.  The doctrine is not similar.  If you're not particularly religious, it may not bother you at all.

I did look at free sample online, and it looked nice.  When I flipped through the hard copy and saw it altogether, I could see it was mormon, just like I instantly can tell if a person is Mormon if they have mormon artwork on their walls.  Who else would include red rock landscapes as classic artwork?  And I was right, it is produced by a Mormon.

So, not really interested in religious discussions with anyone.  I'm sure I won't change your religion and you won't be changing my mind.  I posted exclusively for the benefit of other Christians who would like to be forewarned about mormon content.  I purchased level 3, I think.  I'm sure it has less content at young ages, and I would guess it would increase as they get older.  I only saw the one level.  Even at a young age,  I'm not interested in my kids seeing content from Joseph Smith as an authority or beloved figure in their school literature.  Even if was not obviously biased toward mormons, I wouldn't have used because of the lack of classic literature and classic artwork, which is specifically what I was wanting at the time.

No one is trying to change anyone's religions.

However, spending your time denigrating and deliberately misrepresenting a religion reflects poorly on you in an educational forum.

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2 hours ago, parent said:

 Mormons believe that there are many gods, each ruling his own planet and having a wife (or wives).  They say their god has sex and produces spirit babies, who then are born to populate earth.   

This is most definitely not orthodox or accepted Mormon doctrine. it is twisting and misconstruing Mormon doctrine in order to present it in an unpalatable and inflammatory way.

Probably not your fault as I imagine you are just parroting what someone has taught you about the evil Mormons

ETA should you have an interest in finding out what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints actually believe--you know, the stuff we discuss in Sunday school, the stuff we teach our kids, the stuff our leaders teach in church conferences--take a look at LDS.org or Mormon.org that is where you will find what WE believe not what people who are not us say we believe. Every single instructional manual used in the church is on LDS.org, from kids ' Sunday School manuals through student and teacher manuals for college level religion classes. All LDS scriptures are also on there, as well as General Conferences addresses going back decades. Actual LDS doctrine is not hard to find.

 

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I have a hard time understanding why people make stuff up about other folks' religions when there are plenty of actual and valid doctrinal differences to point to. 

Why the fake stuff? 

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1 hour ago, maize said:

This is most definitely not orthodox or accepted Mormon doctrine. it is twisting and misconstruing Mormon doctrine in order to present it in an unpalatable and inflammatory way.

Probably not your fault as I imagine you are just parroting what someone has taught you about the evil Mormons

ETA should you have an interest in finding out what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints actually believe--you know, the stuff we discuss in Sunday school, the stuff we teach our kids, the stuff our leaders teach in church conferences--take a look at LDS.org or Mormon.org that is where you will find what WE believe not what people who are not us say we believe.

 

I'm not trying to "denigrate" anyone.  I was trying to rebut the false statement that mormonsism is a sect of Christianity and chose a basic example of how they differ.  There are many examples of how they differ.  I thought one God vs multiple gods and goddesses was pretty straighforward.  A simple search shows that Lds.org admits to a heavenly mother and spirit offspring, and their doctrine of exaltification (attaining godhood).

Again, not interested in discussing religion but don't like the false notion that mormonism is a sect of Christianity.  It is not.

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.  I am not interested in arguing mormonism with a mormon.  I'm sure mormons wouldn't take any issue with TGATB.  Some Christians would.  I did, especially on the misrepresentation of the curriculum as non denominational Christian. 

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1 minute ago, parent said:

 

I'm not trying to "denigrate" anyone.  I was trying to rebut the false statement that mormonsism is a sect of Christianity and chose a basic example of how they differ.  There are many examples of how they differ.  I thought one God vs multiple gods and goddesses was pretty straighforward.  A simple search shows that Lds.org admits to a heavenly mother and spirit offspring, and their doctrine of exaltification (attaining godhood).

Again, not interested in discussing religion but don't like the false notion that mormonism is a sect of Christianity.  It is not.

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.  I am not interested in arguing mormonism with a mormon.  I'm sure mormons wouldn't take any issue with TGATB.  Some Christians would.  I did, especially on the misrepresentation of the curriculum as non denominational Christian. 

I am a Christian. I live my life as best I am able as a disciple of Jesus Christ. This year's churchwide focus is a study of the New Testament to better come to know Jesus Christ--the program is called Come Follow Me: https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me?lang=eng

I acknowledge doctrinal differences with other Christian sects. Your posts however contained numerous egregious misrepresentations of Mormon doctrine.

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8 minutes ago, parent said:

 

I'm not trying to "denigrate" anyone.  I was trying to rebut the false statement that mormonsism is a sect of Christianity and chose a basic example of how they differ.  There are many examples of how they differ.  I thought one God vs multiple gods and goddesses was pretty straighforward.  A simple search shows that Lds.org admits to a heavenly mother and spirit offspring, and their doctrine of exaltification (attaining godhood).

Again, not interested in discussing religion but don't like the false notion that mormonism is a sect of Christianity.  It is not.

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.  I am not interested in arguing mormonism with a mormon.  I'm sure mormons wouldn't take any issue with TGATB.  Some Christians would.  I did, especially on the misrepresentation of the curriculum as non denominational Christian. 


1. You're wrong, presenting misinformed opinion as fact, and not interested in refining your position.

2. None of that is in any level of TGTB that I have read, and I went through all the free stuff.  I'm not sure what you're going on about at this point.

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54 minutes ago, parent said:

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.

 

Please post some Mormon doctrine you found in the content of TGATB! 

Keep in mind that pictures depicting the American Southwest isn't canon. 

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7 hours ago, parent said:

 

I'm not trying to "denigrate" anyone.  I was trying to rebut the false statement that mormonsism is a sect of Christianity and chose a basic example of how they differ.  There are many examples of how they differ.  I thought one God vs multiple gods and goddesses was pretty straighforward.  A simple search shows that Lds.org admits to a heavenly mother and spirit offspring, and their doctrine of exaltification (attaining godhood).

Again, not interested in discussing religion but don't like the false notion that mormonism is a sect of Christianity.  It is not.

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.  I am not interested in arguing mormonism with a mormon.  I'm sure mormons wouldn't take any issue with TGATB.  Some Christians would.  I did, especially on the misrepresentation of the curriculum as non denominational Christian. 

Variations of the bolded are found in more than one Christian denomination, perhaps phrased differently, but there none the less. But hey, I'm of a denomination that many don't think is really Christian either so whatever. 

I am not concerned my children will become indoctrinated by artwork depicting the southwest. 🙄

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1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Variations of the bolded are found in more than one Christian denomination, perhaps phrased differently, but there none the less. But hey, I'm of a denomination that many don't think is really Christian either so whatever. 

I am not concerned my children will become indoctrinated by artwork depicting the southwest. 🙄

Warning: indoctrination ahead

Image result for images american southwest

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Never fear, genuine Non-Latter-Day-Saint-Christian (or maybe Jewish?) indoctrination coming your way, this image is from a dessert in Israel so surely safer than one from the American Southwest:

image.png.6615f27aa6b90d74c8cb550b3c26f105.png

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14 hours ago, maize said:

Never fear, genuine Non-Latter-Day-Saint-Christian (or maybe Jewish?) indoctrination coming your way, this image is from a dessert in Israel so surely safer than one from the American Southwest:

image.png.6615f27aa6b90d74c8cb550b3c26f105.png

 

The pictures made me laugh 😄.

So the Utah looking landscape by an unknown painter was just a very obvious clue.  Only a mormon would include that in an art history program.  I then looked at the rest of the pictures, and I think all or most were American and dated 1850 or later, so after Joseph Smith created Mormonism.  I don't recall any familiar artists.  I then scanned the literature, expecting classic authors, and again don't remember it containing any familiar authors.  I'm sure this content is relevant for mormons but I'm not interested in unknown mormon paintings or poetry or stories.  I expected paintings by the masters and classic literature.  Why would I waste our time on unknown mormon works when we could be studying the classics?

You are certainly correct that I should have researched more.   I am definitely more careful now and maybe this is why I am extremely hesitant and indecisive when delving into a new curriculum.  

Ok, I really am abandoning the post now... the pics just caught my attention and I felt like I should clarify that I'm not opposed to rock formations :D 

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56 minutes ago, parent said:

 

The pictures made me laugh 😄.

So the Utah looking landscape by an unknown painter was just a very obvious clue.  Only a mormon would include that in an art history program.  I then looked at the rest of the pictures, and I think all or most were American and dated 1850 or later, so after Joseph Smith created Mormonism.  I don't recall any familiar artists.  I then scanned the literature, expecting classic authors, and again don't remember it containing any familiar authors.  I'm sure this content is relevant for mormons but I'm not interested in unknown mormon paintings or poetry or stories.  I expected paintings by the masters and classic literature.  Why would I waste our time on unknown mormon works when we could be studying the classics?

You are certainly correct that I should have researched more.   I am definitely more careful now and maybe this is why I am extremely hesitant and indecisive when delving into a new curriculum.  

Ok, I really am abandoning the post now... the pics just caught my attention and I felt like I should clarify that I'm not opposed to rock formations 😄

I'm glad the pictures made you laugh, I was trying to lighten the mood 🙂

I'm still curious about your concerns, if you wouldn't mind discussing them (just genuine curiosity, I don't use this curriculum nor am I in any way associated with it). It sounds to me like you are still making assumptions about the content. Why would a painting that was unfamiliar and possibly painted by a Mormon (did you confirm that?) be a problem? Is it just that you wanted paintings by older European artists?

Similarly, what s your concern with the books--again, are you assuming that if they are unfamiliar they must be written by Mormons (that term isn't really preferred within the LDS community, I'm using it here because my own preferred term--Latter-day Christians--isn't familiar to many)--and again did you confirm this? And what is your concern if a work was produced by a Mormon? My children read books written by Catholic and Protestant and Muslim and atheist authors; I do have some standards I look for in literature for children but avoiding anything by an author from a different faith tradition has never occurred to me.

I've glanced through The Good and the Beautiful and have not seen a particularly LDS flavor myself. Jenny Phillips seems to be aiming for somewhat conservative generically Christian values and as far as I can see the curriculum sticks pretty close to that. 

If you don't want to answer in depth could you at least link me to the programs/levels you are talking about? I'd like to take a look.

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4 hours ago, parent said:

I then scanned the literature, expecting classic authors

 

You should not expected that. It's not the stated goal of the author to include the classics of Western civilization. 

And it's your assertion that Mormons aren't Christians that announced what your real aim here was. 

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On 3/1/2019 at 8:41 PM, seemesew said:

I don't understand this. I have used far more curriculum than I care admit and they all teach their religion TGAB doesn't. I think mainly people complain about TGAB because they have something against Mormons. I have never seen similar complaints about CLE or Rod and staff, or Abeka, Or BJU, or many others. They all have their values stated right up front the same as TGAB does. Yes there are "Mormon people" used for quotes but there are many, many other people from other religions quoted too. As long as direct doctrine isn't taught (which its not in TGAB I've looked through all the samples available extensively) I don't see the issue. With ANY curriculum I skip what isn't for my family and teach my children that too. I don't use anything TGAB except the preschool as it does not fit my homeschool style right now. I am not a TGAB zealot, I just hate seeing this "Mormon" accusation over and over again! 

I have seen many complaints about Abeka and BJU and some, but fewer, about Rod and Staff and CLE.

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As a Christian I happily use the curriculum with 3 kids and there is nothing inherently mormon about it. We like it and find nothing that conflicts with our beliefs except for one geography lesson that took a young earth perspective that we skipped. 

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23 hours ago, parent said:

 

The pictures made me laugh 😄.

So the Utah looking landscape by an unknown painter was just a very obvious clue.  Only a mormon would include that in an art history program.  I then looked at the rest of the pictures, and I think all or most were American and dated 1850 or later, so after Joseph Smith created Mormonism.  I don't recall any familiar artists.  I then scanned the literature, expecting classic authors, and again don't remember it containing any familiar authors.  I'm sure this content is relevant for mormons but I'm not interested in unknown mormon paintings or poetry or stories.  I expected paintings by the masters and classic literature.  Why would I waste our time on unknown mormon works when we could be studying the classics?

You are certainly correct that I should have researched more.   I am definitely more careful now and maybe this is why I am extremely hesitant and indecisive when delving into a new curriculum.  

Ok, I really am abandoning the post now... the pics just caught my attention and I felt like I should clarify that I'm not opposed to rock formations 😄

 

How strange. I am an atheist. Like as atheist as one can get. My kids did an entire semester devoted to American art, focusing on the Southwest and West for their art history program. I spent 8 weeks staring at Utah looking landscapes and rock formations.

Look, the Good and Beautiful is problematic in a lot of ways, but pushing LDS doctrine is not one of them. 

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We only tried the samples. It did not line up with where my kids were - reading was below, volume of writing was above, and it just felt like wearing an outfit that was cut wrong and the wrong size. That’s the hardest thing for me with a total language arts package - it rarely hits right where it needs to in any subskill. Hope you find what you’re looking for!

ETA just read the bit in the middle 🙄 I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-Day Saints, aka Mormon), and while I didn’t like the curriculum for the reasons mentioned, I did not find anything but milk-toast Christian sentiment in it.  I am blown away that anyone would dismiss it our of hand for red rock art work. 

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The MAIN focuses of TGatB is God-centered learning, Literature being very clean (no cuss words, racism, etc.) and connecting as a family. The producer is a Latter Day Saint, but her material is just focused on God and family. Assuming that all Latter Day Saints have pictures of Utah is the same as saying All Christians wear crosses. We don't all have pictures of Utah or even the temples in our houses (or even crosses for that matter). Please leave prejudices off the board. I like the curriculum but I won't be using it, even though I am a Latter Day Saint. I want my daughter to read great works even if they have a little cussing. I am actually using a Catholic book on how to create my own curriculum so I can tailor it to our family. 

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Mind you I have only really looked closely at K and Primer level- some of the artwork we have used  from it was Russian.

 I use TGATB  randomly for some extra worksheets  for the twins on stuff we are doing . We enjoy looking at the artwork and reading the questions of things to look for. I also get the twins to read those very simple little reading books. they use the same words that are in their other readers and I need a range of the same level readers because they tend to memorize text instead of read.

 we skip what we don't want and just use what we want. the price is so cheep that it is a great resource for some extra for struggling learners like my twins that need to go sideways not forwards with their learning.

We skip all the religious parts. Much easier to do with this curriculum than it was with ROD And Staff for my older children. ( which by the way my older children renamed rotten stuff)

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On 3/2/2019 at 10:38 AM, parent said:

 

I'm not trying to "denigrate" anyone.  I was trying to rebut the false statement that mormonsism is a sect of Christianity and chose a basic example of how they differ.  There are many examples of how they differ.  I thought one God vs multiple gods and goddesses was pretty straighforward.  A simple search shows that Lds.org admits to a heavenly mother and spirit offspring, and their doctrine of exaltification (attaining godhood).

Again, not interested in discussing religion but don't like the false notion that mormonism is a sect of Christianity.  It is not.

I was posting only in the interest of helping Christians who may not realize the content of TGATB.  I am not interested in arguing mormonism with a mormon.  I'm sure mormons wouldn't take any issue with TGATB.  Some Christians would.  I did, especially on the misrepresentation of the curriculum as non denominational Christian. 

The term Christian only means to follow Christ. And the LDS church most certainly does that.  Just Google "define Christian" and you will see that. I get that some religions will want to say this or that religion is not really Christian because ..and then fill in the blank of some belief that particular person's religion has. I remember when I first started home schooling and was sitting in a conversation where a discussion turned to how Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians are not Christians. Then there was some explanation on their view points of the bible. In reality, any religion that follows Christ or the teaching of Christ is Christian. These religions can look very different from each other, but they are still Christian. 

 

This discussion reminds me of a video I watched recently on the history of whiteness. It talked about how originally, only certain people were considered white. Then eventually, another group was added in..and through the years, another group. It was clear that being considered "white" came with a certain level of acceptance. Well, the same thing happens with this "who is really a Christian" debate. The bible makes it clear that only the Lord can make that decision. And, for the human argument, the dictionary makes the decision as to who can be called a Christian and who cannot. 

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On 3/1/2019 at 11:57 PM, parent said:

Yes, Abeka, BJU, etc states that they are Christian and the materials have Christian content.  TGATB states that it's non denominational Christian, but it has obvious mormon content.  Mormonism isn't Christianity.  They don't believe in the Jesus, the Bible, or even the God of Christianity.  They have their own book of mormon, their own defined Jesus, and their own defined God.  It is all completely different and incompatible with Christianity.  Theology is important to many people.  All I did was open the books, and the curriculum screamed mormonism just as if I walked into a mormon person's home and saw their paintings of their "angel moroni".  Do your research to find out what mormon doctrine truly is and how it compares to Christianity. 

I understand that you or others may take no issue with it, but it made ME uncomfortable.  I feel it is misrepresented to be marketed as Christian.  So, I made the post since it appears there are many Christians (since there are so many using materials like Abeka and BJU) on these boards who may want to know the truth about the underlying perspective of the books.  I certainly wouldn't have purchased if I had known it was mormon.  There really is no way a person can write a book and not include their own perspectives, beliefs, and prejudices.  I'm not interested in letting any part of those beliefs, with which I strongly disagree, influence my children.

I could say so much, but I won't.   That was my impression, my feelings, and my opinion.  I'm sure others will disagree and I don't care.   It is not for me, and I wish someone would have told me before I wasted the money and contributed to mormon proselytizing, because frankly, I think that is the ultimate goal.

The Book of Mormon is a companion book. I recall having catecism classes and spending a lot of time on that, in the Catholic church. The LDS church reads and studies the bible and follows the Christ of the bible. 

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On 3/4/2019 at 9:54 AM, Targhee said:

ETA just read the bit in the middle 🙄 I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-Day Saints, aka Mormon), and while I didn’t like the curriculum for the reasons mentioned, I did not find anything but milk-toast Christian sentiment in it.  I am blown away that anyone would dismiss it our of hand for red rock art work. 

I'm also a Latter-day Saint, and I agree.  I've only looked at the free stuff, but there is nothing "Mormon" in it, except perhaps the notion that God created animals for us to use, but we need to be good stewards.  I don't believe that is a uniquely Latter-day Saint view, though.

19 hours ago, Lilly's Mom said:

The MAIN focuses of TGatB is God-centered learning, Literature being very clean (no cuss words, racism, etc.) and connecting as a family. The producer is a Latter Day Saint, but her material is just focused on God and family. Assuming that all Latter Day Saints have pictures of Utah is the same as saying All Christians wear crosses. We don't all have pictures of Utah or even the temples in our houses (or even crosses for that matter). Please leave prejudices off the board. I like the curriculum but I won't be using it, even though I am a Latter Day Saint. I want my daughter to read great works even if they have a little cussing. I am actually using a Catholic book on how to create my own curriculum so I can tailor it to our family. 

I've only seen Red Rock paintings in homes that have the whole Southwestern look going ... you know, with cow skulls and spurs and all that.  Or the other extreme:  the 4-wheelin' or mountain biking crowds who have made Moab the trendy red rock capital of the world.

There IS an almost ubiquitous Latter-day Saint decor, which features a photo of the temple the parents were married in, a photo of the entire family wearing matching shirts, and a framed copy of either "The Living Christ" or "The Proclamation on the Family" or both.....

....I can't figure out where to hang mine 😉, 'cause I decorate with wall-to-wall IKEA (Billy, of course!) bookcases!  

I, too, would rather have my children read great classics with a little cussing.  

On 8/22/2017 at 4:10 AM, soror said:

Cons:

(1) It is super fundy religious- I completely marked out several lessons and am modifying others. Some lessons the religion is so embedded there was no way to modify it, for others I found the exercise worthwhile even if I didn't want to phrase it like they did. 

....

(4) Her definition of "good" books and mine aren't the same. A good book seems to be one with some not so thinly veiled moral lesson, not necessarily well- written classic books

...

It is exceedingly preachy, the fundamentalist worldview permeates the program. I would not personally use this with a child that was working independently but with younger children, I am able to edit on the fly. YMMV. Obviously, if her view matches your own it will be just fine, her view, however, does not match my own at all.

 

I think what gives it the preachy, fundy feel is that she seems to be promoting that protective parenting style ... what do they call it -- greenhouse, I think maybe -- that is common among fundamentalist from many faiths.  The folks who don't allow Harry Potter, lest their children become witches or whatever? 

Many of my favorite books, like LOTR (it has magic), are on her "don't read this" list, and the books she assigns are all books I have never heard of.  I'm guessing they are all past copyright and are out in the public domain.  That's probably the case with the art she has selected, too.

Here's a funny thing:  I don't see a single Latter-day Saint author on her approved list, but there are at least three prominent Latter-day Saint authors on her "avoid these" list.  

For my family, we'll keep reading LOTR.  We might use the Marine Biology unit she has, and perhaps I could pull some of the grammar lessons out, but the rest isn't to my taste, as her worldview does not match mine.

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