Why do you wear make-up? (if you do)

[Katy]

That is interesting. Could you elaborate? I feel that I am treated just fine, and I never wear makeup. What would "better" treatment entail?

 

ETA: And I should add, being treated fine includes being treated respectfully in a professional setting, being listened to, being appreciated for my professional expertise.

 

Women are friendlier.  Men and salesclerks are more attentive and more likely to go out of their way for you.  It's a form of status. You're given more respect wherever you go.

 

I'm not saying to go to the opposite extreme and try to look like a glamazon that cares about nothing but vanity (that would send a message you are vapid).  I'm just discussing looking your best - like Kate Middleton or Queen Elizabeth. More polished than natural, but not over the top, wherever you fall in the age spectrum.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I've actually experienced *discrimintion* (I'm not sure if that's the right word) for wearing makeup.

 

I have presented research and given presentations where I feel I was more aggressively challenged because I am careful in my appearance. There is a mentality where I live that intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking women don't color their hair, or wear cute dresses, high heels, and makeup. I would never step to a podium unprepared, so they usually just end up looking silly.

 

I wish everyone could just be themselves. I certainly don't concern myself with how other women present themselves. I just hate being prejudged for being myself.

[Carrie12345]

Didn't read all the replies.

 

I wear it (when I wear it) for my own pleasure, confidence, and comfort. I use the term comfort loosely. If I were at an event where most attendees would dress formally, I'd wear uncomfortable formal clothes to feel socially comfortable, yk?

 

I don't feel obligated to be attractive, but I enjoy feeling more attractive than my 'round the house look sometimes. I see nothing wrong with finding make up attractive, so long as it's considered a sweet boost and not an obligatory mask.

[Frances]

See I have a hard time understanding when people say they wear it for themselves. It just doesn't compute. Makeup is such a pain in the a** to deal with that I can't wrap my brain around the fact that people want to wear it and don't feel obligated out of societies expectations.

 

I know this isn't the case for everyone but I hate makeup so much my brain has a hard time believing it isn't always for someone else/society

I don't wear it because I never really learned how to do all of it correctly, especially foundation, so I don't feel at all confident enough to attempt anything beyond mascara and blush, but I never even bother with that anymore.

 

But I do think if I knew how to do it all that I could look better for myself. I could care less what other people think, but a I would like to feel better when I look in the mirror or see pictures of myself. Although honestly depending on how much time it took, I could see myself only doing it occasionally and not daily.

 

The part I find strange is that in general, it's primarily women who wear it. Don't some men also want to look better? Even out their skin tone and conceal some things while highlighting others? Is it just gender stereotypes or societal expectations holding them back?

 

Some men I know have had pedicures, manicures, facials, eyebrow waxing/threading, etc done, and I've never had any of those things. First, because I can barely tolerate having my haircut and second because I can handle those things myself. But I don't find it strange that as males they want to do those things to look or feel better or for whatever other reason.

[Frances]

It's part of a professional-looking appearance. I used to wear it when I was employed FT in an office and will have to start wearing it regularly again when I start my clinical practica. Just like I wouldn't go to the office with dirty & uncombed hair, I wouldn't go without basic makeup on. Now I'm not talking spending an hour getting all dolled up but basic CC cream/foundation, blush in the winter, lipstick/tinted lip balm, mascara.

Not a single woman in my office wears any make-up, and we are all highly compensated professionals.

[Donna]

I prefer the way I look with it. I don't wear much...some powder, light neutral eye shadow, and mascara.

[mamaraby]

Hmmm, I don't but would like to because it looks fun. Except I have no idea what I'm doing (never have) so I think it probably makes me look worse than without so I've mostly given up. Since I never could seem to figure it out, I have no comparison on the how people treat me with/without question.

 

I will say, trying to wear concealer to help lessen the appearance of dark circles under my eyes illuminated creases in my skin/wrinkles that I never saw before the concealer highlighted them. That was the opposite of what I had hoped. Good times.

[MommyLiberty5013]

I have learned to get dressed up (and that includes wearing light makeup) when dealing with medical, healthcare, and educational professionals in relation to my SN child. I get treated better when it looks like I've just come from an office than if I show up with my normal SAHM appearance. My concerns get taken more seriously and I'm more likely to get what I want from them.

 

This post reminds me of that scene in the movie Schlinder's List when the woman comes to Mr. Schnidler's factory wanting to get an audience with him to see about getting her parents into the factory too (if they can work there, they will be safe from the Nazis). He takes a look at her from the top of a stairway. She is grungy and disheveled. He ignores her. But then she goes home, freshens up, dresses up, and does her hair and puts on makeup. Then he sees her and she ends up getting what she wants - her parents get hired.

 

I dislike that she had to do this to get into see him. It is a good example, though, of this point you are making.

 

In many ways in life we have to "pay to play." Sometimes, by some people, in some fields of work, to get what you want, you have to play the part. Honestly, I do not care. If I have to get all dressed up with my sassy make-up face on to be taken more seriously by a doctor, attorney, or someone in a position of authority to ultimately get what I want, it seems like a small, small price to pay. I will do it and I will pull out all the stops...

Edited August 9, 2017 by MommyLiberty5013

[J-rap]

I wear makeup because I like the way it looks.  I just wear a little eye makeup:  a dark smokey shadow on my lower lid plus a little mascara on my lower lashes.  It takes me all of 60 seconds.  It's just a look I happen to like.  I don't know why.

[Guest]

I don't wear it because I never really learned how to do all of it correctly, especially foundation, so I don't feel at all confident enough to attempt anything beyond mascara and blush, but I never even bother with that anymore.

 

But I do think if I knew how to do it all that I could look better for myself. I could care less what other people think, but a I would like to feel better when I look in the mirror or see pictures of myself. Although honestly depending on how much time it took, I could see myself only doing it occasionally and not daily.

 

The part I find strange is that in general, it's primarily women who wear it. Don't some men also want to look better? Even out their skin tone and conceal some things while highlighting others? Is it just gender stereotypes or societal expectations holding them back?

 

Some men I know have had pedicures, manicures, facials, eyebrow waxing/threading, etc done, and I've never had any of those things. First, because I can barely tolerate having my haircut and second because I can handle those things myself. But I don't find it strange that as males they want to do those things to look or feel better or for whatever other reason.

I would imagine it is mostly gender sterotypes holding them back. It is not a social benefit for a man to wear makeup, even if the overall effect would be more pleasing. There are also certain goals of feminine beauty that are not usually aspired to by men; i.e., having smooth skin without tonal variations, or having long eyelashes.

 

Only more progressive men in more progressive areas can really do those kinds of grooming extra care without seeming emasculated, and I would venture that even then, they don't parade it around. So, they may have a manicure, but they aren't getting fake fingernails with rhinestone nail art. They are almost always just wanting clean, neat-looking hands (unless they are some sort of artist or performer). I groom the eyebrows of a young man I'm close to 😉, but he's sure not posting before/after selfies on Instagram.

[Pippen]

When I became a SAHM I stopped wearing all makeup except a little eyeliner and mascara. I continued with those because I like how I look better with it. Without it my eyes just seem to disappear. 

 

I did go out and buy some light foundation to wear to a job interview and will probably continue now I'm employed. I just want to even out the skin tone some.

[Guest]

Here's the thing, make-up-wearing friends, that I don't understand. If you wear makeup and you like to, why justify it with the time investment? If it took you 30 minutes to do your makeup, but you enjoy it and feel prettier with it...so? I mean, do we really need to meet some arbitrary time budget for what we are allowed to do just because we like it?

 

I have talked about this before, but I like my hair the way I have it. It is a ridiculous investment of time and money. It takes a good 15 to blow it dry and thenthere is still at least one iron involved in getting it the rest of the way styled. A lot of women would not do this. But I like to, and it doesn't hurt anybody that I devote this strangely lengthy amount of time to having my hair a certain way (on the days I wash it). So, really, I don't think we have to offer a justification about it not really taking much time or not really taking much money or Pfth, I don't actually care about it or whatever. As long as nobody is going hungry in your house because you spent the baby food budget on a new NARS lipstick, then really, knock yourself out. If it takes one minute or fifteen, there's nothing wrong with spending this time.

[6packofun]

I feel WAY more confident with a little makeup.  I look better with my dark circles tended to and a little something to help my eyes stand out a bit since my lashes are small and light.  I can put my makeup on without a mirror so it isn't anything over the top.  lol

 

I have to say, though, that my oldest dd has even darker circles and I REALLY wish she'd regularly wear makeup to work so that she doesn't look so dead tired.  :(  I cringe at myself every time I think it.  I rarely mention it and only in a hey-I-got-a-new-concealer-you-might-like-too! kind of way.  And I have also thought about her looking her best--and CARING enough to!--being something that might help her meet someone. There, I said it.  Again, I cringe.  I think it's deeper than the makeup thing...I worry that she's not bothering because she's sad or depressed and this is just one small thing that maybe points to it.  *sigh*  I raise my girls to be strong and NONE of them wear makeup and other than covering blemishes I could care less.  But with this dd it's different somehow and I'm hating how I feel about it.  

 

Pooh.

[jewellsmommy]

Men have to shave or at least keep their facial hair neatly trimmed. Women can just wear pants and blouses that cover the armpits & nobody will know if they forgo shaving/waxing their body hair.

 

It takes my DH longer to shave his face & neck than it does for me to put on basic office-appropriate makeup.

 

 

So does a woman...if she has it. :tongue_smilie:  Makeup does nothing for a furry chin! 

 

My dh wears a beard and even accounting for the trimming, he definitely spends less time than I do on appearance. 

 

But in all seriousness, a woman without make-up is not a big deal but let her walk around with a five oclock shadow and people will notice. 

[MaeFlowers]

I dont wear make-up and, tbh, I have a lot of mixed emotions about it. I quit wearing it years ago and just never went back. Im a SAHM who rarely leaves the house. I cant stand the way it feels and I cant justify the expense. But, when I see my own reflection, I cringe and feel sad. So, I dont know the right answer.

 

I dont judge women who dont wear make-up and I dont make assumptions about their psychological well being. I also dont judge women who do or their motives. But, I have to say I feel a little sad for women who think they need to wear make-up to be pretty or accepted by society. Its just not true.

Edited August 9, 2017 by MaeFlowers

[Paige]

I wear it because it makes me look better. It's that simple.

 

I wear it because when I do, people treat me differently- I get more consideration, concern, and more positive interactions. It's not that people treat me poorly when I don't wear makeup, but I prefer the feedback I get when I do. I get the same feedback when I wear stylish clothes that fit vs my old painting clothes. It's not about men or being attractive to them but about socially fitting in- even women and children are friendlier. 

 

I would wear some most days even if I were home alone because I enjoy the process. I like making creative choices each day and seeing how I can change my appearance according to how I feel. 

 

I prefer to see myself in the mirror and think, "not too bad," instead of, "ugh I'm getting old." 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

If a doc or therapist or a dentist blows me off, I go find a new one.  I did this when I was pregnant and had an OB who wasn't paying attention, and have done this with a dentist.   I can't say this had much to do with my appearance though.  The OB was a new one in the practice I had been using and I had switched to her when my original left, but after the first appointment I switched to a different OB in the same practice, one I had seen once in a previous pregnancy.  The dentist was one I had been seeing since I was a teen.   I haven't felt blown off or not listened to by anyone that I have dealt with in therms of DD6's docs or therapists.  The doc who diagnosed her autism gave me her full attention, listened to everything I had to say, she was great.  And I never wore make up and usually just had my standard SAHM uniform of jeans, Tshirt and hair in a pony.  No make up.

 

Now, I HAVE felt blown off by the school.  Which is a huge contributor in why I am now homeschooling.  There were others, like the fact that they were not teaching my older one to read, and I hated much of the curriculum they used, and the freaking TEN standardized tests they were giving kids in FIRST grade.  But yes, the IEP meetings never left me with warm fuzzies.  I don't know if that was because I always had that same standard SAHM uniform, vs that they were just like that in general, given the other issues I had with the school. 

 

 

So I guess I don't care if someone takes me more or less seriously based on my appearance either.  Because, the fact that they didn't take me seriously is more of a problem to me than WHY. 

 

When the Regional Center (part of the Dept. of Developmental Disabilities) psychologist wrote up her report that determined whether or not my DD would receive continued services through them past when she aged out of Early Intervention at age 3, the lady included a description of my DD's outfit:

 

She was dressed in a pink and black dress with a poodle picture and had matching hair bows. Her clothing was clean and neat and appropriate for the situation and the day's weather. Though she is not independent for any self-care skills, her grooming and hygiene were excellent and she appears well cared for.

 

I don't know what any of that had to do with whether or not the state should provide support services for her developmental disability. :glare:

[Paige]

 

 

But...that you CRINGE that your DD won't wear it.  It brings a tear.  I am not judging and I am reading that you hate how you feel about it and it makes my heart hurt for both of you. 

 

It makes you think she's depressed because she doesn't care if she looks tired because she has some NATURAL dark circles?   I just......

 

 

 

 

 

 

This may be part of why I wear it too. I had the type of mother who was always telling me to put more blush and lipstick on. Perhaps I was conditioned to think of wearing it as something that was as basic as brushing my hair or not wearing clothes with big stains. It may not be right, but it's how I was raised. I didn't object to wearing it as a teen. I was much more obsessed then and it could be because my mom would critique my makeup if she didn't like it. Today I can go to the store or most places with no makeup and feel perfectly fine, whereas when I was younger I would have been extremely uncomfortable. 

 

I provide some makeup for my teens upon request but never tell them they need it. My 10yo loves makeup and I'm fine with her practicing with it at home with her friends but make her wash it off before going out. I'm trying to raise my daughters differently. 

[Crimson Wife]

I don't wear it because I never really learned how to do all of it correctly, especially foundation, so I don't feel at all confident enough to attempt anything beyond mascara and blush, but I never even bother with that anymore.

 

Sephora offers free group classes (no purchase required). My 14 y.o. just did the teen class and is signed up for an eyeliner one at the end of the month since she wants to learn how to do that trendy winged look. You can get an individual tutorial if you're willing to spend $50 in the store.

 

But if you've got no interest, that's your prerogative :)

 

[MaeFlowers]

When the Regional Center (part of the Dept. of Developmental Disabilities) psychologist wrote up her report that determined whether or not my DD would receive continued services through them past when she aged out of Early Intervention at age 3, the lady included a description of my DD's outfit:

 

She was dressed in a pink and black dress with a poodle picture and had matching hair bows. Her clothing was clean and neat and appropriate for the situation and the day's weather. Though she is not independent for any self-care skills, her grooming and hygiene were excellent and she appears well cared for.

 

I don't know what any of that had to do with whether or not the state should provide support services for her developmental disability. :glare:

I dont know why, but I seen drs records that have said the same types of things. They were about myself and I was adult. I think it might be more common than we realize.

[MaeFlowers]

I wanted to add something else. A lot of people tie appearance to self-worth and self-esteem and argue that hose who dont wear make-up are lacking. But, many women I have known who wear make-up do so because they dont feel good enough without it. They use make-up to boost their self-esteem. It goes both ways.

[Frances]

Sephora offers free group classes (no purchase required). My 14 y.o. just did the teen class and is signed up for an eyeliner one at the end of the month since she wants to learn how to do that trendy winged look. You can get an individual tutorial if you're willing to spend $50 in the store.

 

But if you've got no interest, that's your prerogative :)

 

Thanks for the tip, but I would never feel comfortable learning something like that in a group class or in a store. I could probably have my mother-in-law teach me if I was really interested (my own mom still has beautiful flawless skin with perfect skin tone at almost 80, so no need for make-up), but my skin is also very sensitive and reacts to almost everything, even very high-end expensive sunscreens.

[Peaceseeker]

I think if my skin tone were more even I wouldn't bother. I would probably never wear it but I have rosacea and I dislike my signature tomato look. When I do wear make up 99% of the time it is just a light foundation to even my skin tone and maybe some lip gloss which I never remember to reapply. I might bother with anything else 2-3 times a year on a date or a girls night if I am lucky enough to get one of those.

 

I still have make up free days where I can go out in public to stores, to see friends, etc.. I am not someone who has to be 'done' to go out. I can throw on some moisturizer and a hippy skirt and flip flops and go around town on errands in half wet hair. I am really not a very self conscious person for the most part. I hardly ever look in a mirror past that first glance while brushing my teeth and combing my hair. I have always considered this a positive quality but lately I am questioning whether caring a teensy bit more would be a good thing. I signed up for stitch fix and got some blonde highlights for the first time in years. I may be beginning my midlife crisis.

 

I just did a 5 minute eye make up job and painted my nails for a change last week. I found it a bit disconcerting that everyone at work noticed and commented on it. Makes me wonder what they think about me normally, lol. I don't really care what others think of me (almost to a fault really) but now I am just kind of curious as to how others perceive me.

 

Someone mentioned when they spend more time on their outside appearance they are perceived as having their lives in order or they are treated differently. I often wonder about people who are very pulled together ALL THE TIME. (hair,make up, accessories, clean car, etc..) I wonder what they might be trying to hide or cover up or what they are insecure about. They make me highly suspicious. Like people whose houses are always spotless...

 

Not to be all judgy but just throwing it out there that the perceptions people have of someone made up/pulled together all the time are not always positive. This is just my first initial reaction to this type of woman. I do have friends across the 'getting all done up' spectrum. One of my best friends tattoed her eye make up on and another is the literally cannot ever be seen without it kind of girl.

 

No telling what people's first reaction to me is. Probably something like holy cow she is intense and how can she go out in public like that?????😀

[SereneHome]

What an interesting thread.

 

I used to wear make up EVERYWHERE.   I mean everywhere!  Even when I had a very early college classes (and I am not a morning person).  I haven't wore it in awhile though.  Too lazy.

 

I think it's nice when people put effort into their appearances.  I am very old school in that sense.  I like watching old movies and seeing people actually being dressed nicely, regardless of where they were - home, grocery store, etc

 

But as I am lazy - I don't do that myself.  I wish I did.

 

I don't understand "I do it for myself" reason bc I always think to myself - if you really do it for yourself - do you still do it when you are home alone?  That's a true test to me.  If you only do something appearance related when you around other people - then you do it for them, for whatever reason and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

 

I know I look much better with make up - I have very light eye lashes and my eyes look 100% better with some eyeliner and mascara.  But fortunately or unfortunately, I like myself regardless, so I just don't make the effort.  I can look at myself in the mirror, no matter how fat or tired I am, how dirty my hair is - and still find something I like.

 

My kids always notice when I have make up or nicer clothes on.  My husband just wants me to loose the weight for health reasons.  And he does prefer longer hair - but I am getting older so my hair is getting shorter

[Guest]

I think if my skin tone were more even I wouldn't bother. I would probably never wear it but I have rosacea and I dislike my signature tomato look. When I do wear make up 99% of the time it is just a light foundation to even my skin tone and maybe some lip gloss which I never remember to reapply. I might bother with anything else 2-3 times a year on a date or a girls night if I am lucky enough to get one of those.

 

I still have make up free days where I can go out in public to stores, to see friends, etc.. I am not someone who has to be 'done' to go out. I can throw on some moisturizer and a hippy skirt and flip flops and go around town on errands in half wet hair. I am really not a very self conscious person for the most part. I hardly ever look in a mirror past that first glance while brushing my teeth and combing my hair. I have always considered this a positive quality but lately I am questioning whether caring a teensy bit more would be a good thing. I signed up for stitch fix and got some blonde highlights for the first time in years. I may be beginning my midlife crisis.

 

I just did a 5 minute eye make up job and painted my nails for a change last week. I found it a bit disconcerting that everyone at work noticed and commented on it. Makes me wonder what they think about me normally, lol. I don't really care what others think of me (almost to a fault really) but now I am just kind of curious as to how others perceive me.

 

Someone mentioned when they spend more time on their outside appearance they are perceived as having their lives in order or they are treated differently. I often wonder about people who are very pulled together ALL THE TIME. (hair,make up, accessories, clean car, etc..) I wonder what they might be trying to hide or cover up or what they are insecure about. They make me highly suspicious. Like people whose houses are always spotless...

 

Not to be all judgy but just throwing it out there that the perceptions people have of someone made up/pulled together all the time are not always positive. This is just my first initial reaction to this type of woman. I do have friends across the 'getting all done up' spectrum. One of my best friends tattoed her eye make up on and another is the literally cannot ever be seen without it kind of girl.

 

No telling what people's first reaction to me is. Probably something like holy cow she is intense and how can she go out in public like that?????😀

The bolded is just as bad as someone who is always "put-together" assuming someone who doesn't make that effort is lazy, depressed, and/or doesn't value themselves.

 

I believe that some women try to sabbatage women who do look nice all the time, by telling them it doesn't matter, it makes them look weak, etc. It's just like "fit-shaming". It's the other side of the same judgemental coin. Women shouldn't be too fat, because smaller women will assume they are lazy and insecure, but they also shouldn't be too fit because that means they must spend hours at a gym when they could be staring into their children's precious eyes.

[Bluegoat]

True. I wonder if this is internal prejudices against what we perceive as not well maintained or if we innately assume that if someone is fit, looks healthy and clean they have better self control and are therefore more reliable. We have layered so many social constructs onto humans that we are no longer in touch with much of our innate responses but I do wonder about this.

 

Deep down - I suspect we feel that physical fitness in the larger sense is an important quality, be it for a mate, a leader, or whatever.   

[Bluegoat]

I think it is both of those things and more. Here is one thing that is true: people who are mentally unhealthy or have a lot of personal problems don't usually have a great presentation. I say, their outside matches their inside; they are disordered on the outside because they are disordered on the inside.

 

During a period of time when I was suffering from depression, I didn't care how I presented myself. I did sometimes literally wear what I had slept in as my "day" outfit. I dragged around, not looking put-together because I didn't have the mental space or wherewithall to put energy into looking better. So if someone had said (and in fact, I'm sure some did), "What is the matter with Danielle? She could look cute, but she makes no effort. She just looks a mess all the time," they may be making assumptions based on how I looked on the outside, but they would not have been wrong. So, while it may seem unfair that people make judgements about what others are like based on how they look, their judgements are often, maybe even usually, correct.

 

My mom worked at the mental health locked ward for a while.  She said that one of the ways you could tell someone was responding to treatment, or getting worse, was their grooming.  For men specifically, facial hair - if they stopped shaving or grooming a beard, things were going downhill.  When they started meds that worked, shaving was often one of the first things they did.

[Bluegoat]

When the Regional Center (part of the Dept. of Developmental Disabilities) psychologist wrote up her report that determined whether or not my DD would receive continued services through them past when she aged out of Early Intervention at age 3, the lady included a description of my DD's outfit:

 

She was dressed in a pink and black dress with a poodle picture and had matching hair bows. Her clothing was clean and neat and appropriate for the situation and the day's weather. Though she is not independent for any self-care skills, her grooming and hygiene were excellent and she appears well cared for.

 

I don't know what any of that had to do with whether or not the state should provide support services for her developmental disability. :glare:

 

How does someone who is making an assessment like that tell whether there are problems with the care or support a child might receive at home?  Asking directly doesn't always give an accurate answer.  You make a guess based on other signals - is someone taking care to keep the child clean and dressed appropriately?  Does it look like there is care but no money?  Is the child neglected looking?

[Soror]

I wear less the older I get. I've found that if I put on much I end up seeing myself later and not liking how I look. I also noticed that I prefer the look of an older woman with less makeup. If I wear makeup I do no more than toner, blush, and lip tint (rarely mascara). As of late, I've been wearing nothing but sunscreen.

 

I taught a yoga camp last week and guys came to make a video one day, I had no idea they were coming or I likely put on some makeup but since I had no idea I had on nothing at all.  I was nervous to see the end product but didn't feel embarrassed at all when I saw it. I guess I'm getting used to my plain face being public. 

 

I cannot equate not wearing makeup with letting myself go. If anything I find that wearing makeup all the time is not conducive to being active(which is one of the biggest marks of self-care) as it melts off my face when I sweat. I've not changed how I dress or my grooming habits. I'm a healthy weight and reasonably fit. I've not noticed a change in how I'm treated.

 

My daughters have always loved experimenting with makeup. I'm fine with that.

 

I would also add nearly everyone mentioned they wear makeup to even out their skin tone. The thing is our expectations about skin tone are unrealistic because of makeup. Men aren't expected to have a flawless complexion because it is not (generally) socially acceptable for them to wear makeup but somehow women think that our faces are supposed to be perfect. That drives me crazy. It is like the tooth whitening trend, there is now a societal expectation for teeth that are unnaturally white due to the popularity of extreme whitening. I don't see these things as progress.

Edited August 9, 2017 by soror

[magnificent_baby]

I dont know why, but I seen drs records that have said the same types of things. They were about myself and I was adult. I think it might be more common than we realize.

 

Commenting on clothing, hygiene and appearance is done for adults as part of assessing cognition and emotional well being. It's very normal to document that during medical exams, especially for the elderly. Appearing disheveled or not dressing appropriately for the weather can signal conditions such as dementia, stroke, depression or perhaps neglect. For example, if someone wore pajamas to a wellness exam, it could be a red flag for depression. If the appearance were abnormal, documentation can help back up particular diagnoses or further testing. In family practice it's usually just a brief statement especially if appearance is "normal". 

[Carrie12345]

When the Regional Center (part of the Dept. of Developmental Disabilities) psychologist wrote up her report that determined whether or not my DD would receive continued services through them past when she aged out of Early Intervention at age 3, the lady included a description of my DD's outfit:

 

She was dressed in a pink and black dress with a poodle picture and had matching hair bows. Her clothing was clean and neat and appropriate for the situation and the day's weather. Though she is not independent for any self-care skills, her grooming and hygiene were excellent and she appears well cared for.

 

I don't know what any of that had to do with whether or not the state should provide support services for her developmental disability. :glare:

 

My assumption (for whatever that's worth) is that descriptions like that are about identifying other possible needs/services/interventions. They do give *potential* insights to the home/parenting dynamic.  I mean, I can't say I've never rushed the kids out of the house in mismatched or grubby clothes, someone's teeth went unbrushed, and another someone only pretended to take a shower the night before.  It happens.  

 

But, if there's a child who goes in with ill-fitting clothes, they have a strong odor, they have visible decay on their teeth, and it looks like their hair may not have been brushed in a week, I would think they would want to investigate aspects of the home that may need to be addressed as contributors to delays or barriers to their continued progress.  The exact opposite appearance (like your given example) indicates (though obviously doesn't guarantee) that someone is successfully doing laundry, bathing, brushing teeth, and generally paying time and attention to the child.  One is likely to be set up for more success than the other.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I have learned to get dressed up (and that includes wearing light makeup) when dealing with medical, healthcare, and educational professionals in relation to my SN child. I get treated better when it looks like I've just come from an office than if I show up with my normal SAHM appearance. My concerns get taken more seriously and I'm more likely to get what I want from them.

So true. I ALWAYS dress a certain way for kids' doctors appointments: neat, conventional.

[Bluegoat]

I wear less the older I get. I've found that if I put on much I end up seeing myself later and not liking how I look. I also noticed that I prefer the look of an older woman with less makeup. If I wear makeup I do no more than toner, blush, and lip tint (rarely mascara). As of late, I've been wearing nothing but sunscreen.

 

I taught camp last week and guys came to make a video one day, I had no idea they were coming or I likely put on some makeup but since I had no idea I had on nothing at all.  I was nervous to see the end product but didn't feel embarrassed at all when I saw it. I guess I'm getting used to my plan face being public. 

 

I cannot equate not wearing makeup with letting myself go. If anything I find that wearing makeup all the time is not conducive to being active(which is one of the biggest marks of self-care) as it melts off my face when I sweat. I've not changed how I dress or my grooming habits. I'm a healthy weight and reasonably fit. I've not noticed a change in how I'm treated.

 

My daughters have always loved experimenting with makeup. I'm fine with that.

 

I would also add nearly everyone mentioned they wear makeup to even out their skin tone. The thing is our expectations about skin tone are unrealistic because of makeup. Men aren't expected to have a flawless complexion because it is not (generally) socially acceptable for them to wear makeup but somehow women think that our faces are supposed to be perfect. That drives me crazy. It is like the tooth whitening trend, there is now a societal expectation for teeth that are unnaturally white due to the popularity of extreme whitening. I don't see these things as progress.

 

Yeah, I hate to say it because it isn't really rational, but it is a slippery slope, or seems to be in practice.  The fact that something becomes ok as an individual changes our perception of normal over time.  

 

I am pretty sure that when wearing make-up and shaving your legs became a socially acceptable thing at the beginning of the 20th century, people were not expecting that some demographics would expect all body hair on women to be removed, or botox injections, chemical peels, and surgical procedures to be normalized beauty solutions a hundred years later.

[coralloyd]

I started to wear make-up after my ds10 was born. My reason to start was acne. I wore a blemish control one because I was breaking out like a teenager. It worked great, and made my face not look so blotchy. Later I moved to a natural mineral makeup with spf to keep my skin healthy. Now, if you wear a foundation you should probably wear blush or you look washed out and sickly (at least I do). I also wear lip gloss (I always have because I hate dry lips, and don't like the feeling of chapstick). Sometimes I add an eye shadow to round out the look. Those are my reasons.

 

ETA: Sometimes men wish they could wear makeup for the same reasons. My dh has said he wishes he could cover up a bad blemish with some makeup at times.

Edited August 9, 2017 by coralloyd

[MamaBearTeacher]

I've actually experienced *discrimintion* (I'm not sure if that's the right word) for wearing makeup.

 

I have presented research and given presentations where I feel I was more aggressively challenged because I am careful in my appearance. There is a mentality where I live that intelligent, thoughtful, critically thinking women don't color their hair, or wear cute dresses, high heels, and makeup. I would never step to a podium unprepared, so they usually just end up looking silly.

 

I wish everyone could just be themselves. I certainly don't concern myself with how other women present themselves. I just hate being prejudged for being myself.

I understand. I would say that at least half of the circles I've been in in my life have been critical of women who wear make-up or dress up too much. There have been times that I know I have to dress down because wearing something too fancy ie. a dress will bring criticism. Criticism usually comes from other women.

 

To the OP: I think after marriage and children most women dress to fit in with other women in their circles. I think they almost NEVER dress for men except maybe a tiny bit for their spouse as some posters have mentioned. Personally, I find the dressing for other women part to be more oppressive because I am trying to avoid criticism whereas the dressing for my spouse feels more creative and fun. Unfortunately other women notice what I wear a lot more than my spouse.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I should add that I think women also wear makeup to cover up what they feel ashamed of: acne, wrinkles, scars, palor etc.

[marbel]

Here's the thing, make-up-wearing friends, that I don't understand. If you wear makeup and you like to, why justify it with the time investment? If it took you 30 minutes to do your makeup, but you enjoy it and feel prettier with it...so? I mean, do we really need to meet some arbitrary time budget for what we are allowed to do just because we like it?

 

I have talked about this before, but I like my hair the way I have it. It is a ridiculous investment of time and money. It takes a good 15 to blow it dry and thenthere is still at least one iron involved in getting it the rest of the way styled. A lot of women would not do this. But I like to, and it doesn't hurt anybody that I devote this strangely lengthy amount of time to having my hair a certain way (on the days I wash it). So, really, I don't think we have to offer a justification about it not really taking much time or not really taking much money or Pfth, I don't actually care about it or whatever. As long as nobody is going hungry in your house because you spent the baby food budget on a new NARS lipstick, then really, knock yourself out. If it takes one minute or fifteen, there's nothing wrong with spending this time.

 

People are quick to note that they don't spend much time on their makeup because they can get judged on that too.  Like, you are spending time on that instead of studying calculus so you can teach it to your kid?  Or reading Great Books so you can discuss them with your kid?  Or getting into work earlier to make more money?

 

Just as people like to judge how others spend money, people like to judge how others spend time.   For some, it helps them feel better.  "Oh well, sure, she looks great, but she spends 20 minutes a day on her makeup!  So frivolous!"  

[MamaBearTeacher]

When the Regional Center (part of the Dept. of Developmental Disabilities) psychologist wrote up her report that determined whether or not my DD would receive continued services through them past when she aged out of Early Intervention at age 3, the lady included a description of my DD's outfit:

 

She was dressed in a pink and black dress with a poodle picture and had matching hair bows. Her clothing was clean and neat and appropriate for the situation and the day's weather. Though she is not independent for any self-care skills, her grooming and hygiene were excellent and she appears well cared for.

 

I don't know what any of that had to do with whether or not the state should provide support services for her developmental disability. :glare:

I don't know either. This psychologist is not a professional. Her comments were just wrong!

[Bluegoat]

People are quick to note that they don't spend much time on their makeup because they can get judged on that too.  Like, you are spending time on that instead of studying calculus so you can teach it to your kid?  Or reading Great Books so you can discuss them with your kid?  Or getting into work earlier to make more money?

 

Just as people like to judge how others spend money, people like to judge how others spend time.   For some, it helps them feel better.  "Oh well, sure, she looks great, but she spends 20 minutes a day on her makeup!  So frivolous!"  

 

I think too most people would say, at some point spending a lot of time begins to become obsessive.

 

For example, it might be normal to spend some time thinking about and paying attention to a healthy diet.  But, it can go over the top into unhealthy territory.

[marbel]

I don't know either. This psychologist is not a professional. Her comments were just wrong!

 

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the psychologist was not professional.  I've seen descriptions like that in my own file, my mother's, and my kids' from a wide variety of doctors - all of them professional - so I assume it's common.

 

I think, as others have said, that it's noting the general well-being of the patient - the child looks cared-for, the adult seems to be able to perform self-care, etc.  But I also have wondered if it's a memory device.   If the doctor reviews a file before a visit, a note about the patient's personal appearance may help them remember the person, not just the case, better. 

[Crimson Wife]

How does someone who is making an assessment like that tell whether there are problems with the care or support a child might receive at home?  Asking directly doesn't always give an accurate answer.  You make a guess based on other signals - is someone taking care to keep the child clean and dressed appropriately?  Does it look like there is care but no money?  Is the child neglected looking?

 

It wasn't the part about the outfit being clean and appropriate for the situation that I have a problem with because I think that does say something relevant about the family. But the fact that I could afford to put her in a cute coordinated Gymboree outfit should not have any bearing on whether or not the state provides her services.

[Guest]

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the psychologist was not professional. I've seen descriptions like that in my own file, my mother's, and my kids' from a wide variety of doctors - all of them professional - so I assume it's common.

 

I think, as others have said, that it's noting the general well-being of the patient - the child looks cared-for, the adult seems to be able to perform self-care, etc. But I also have wondered if it's a memory device. If the doctor reviews a file before a visit, a note about the patient's personal appearance may help them remember the person, not just the case, better.

I'm thinking - we could also frame this as the physician being a careful observer. Don't we complain when we visit a doctor who is in such a booked-up rush, it seems like they didn't even notice we were a different human from the one that just left? I have been to doctor visits where the doctor seemed this way, like they didn't have a minute to spare actually looking at me, like I was just "Patient Complaining of Persistent Headaches."

[marbel]

It wasn't the part about the outfit being clean and appropriate for the situation that I have a problem with because I think that does say something relevant about the family. But the fact that I could afford to put her in a cute coordinated Gymboree outfit should not have any bearing on whether or not the state provides her services.

 

Did they actually mention that it was an expensive outfit, or was it just descriptive of the colors, pattern, etc?  

 

I wouldn't know an expensive gymboree outfit from a cheap one from Walmart.  Matching hair bows says nothing about cost either.   

[marbel]

I'm thinking - we could also frame this as the physician being a careful observer. Don't we complain when we visit a doctor who is in such a booked-up rush, it seems like they didn't even notice we were a different human from the one that just left? I have been to doctor visits where the doctor seemed this way, like they didn't have a minute to spare actually looking at me, like I was just "Patient Complaining of Persistent Headaches."

 

LOL I hadn't though of it that way.  But you may be on to something.  And, just goes to show, we will always find something to complain about, won't we?    :lol:   

[Guest]

Did they actually mention that it was an expensive outfit, or was it just descriptive of the colors, pattern, etc?

 

I wouldn't know an expensive gymboree outfit from a cheap one from Walmart. Matching hair bows says nothing about cost either.

Matching hair bows does sort of hint at higher scale clothing, though. Gymboree sells outfits this way. Everything from the socks to the hair bows to the little kiddie purse can match.

[marbel]

Matching hair bows does sort of hint at higher scale clothing, though. Gymboree sells outfits this way. Everything from the socks to the hair bows to the little kiddie purse can match.

 

Yeah, I guess...  But, there are easier ways for a medical office to figure out people's income level than how well-dressed a preschooler is, if that was even the intent of noting the clothing (which I'm guessing was not the case).   

 

And, I know some very modest-income folks who dress their children well with careful shopping, etc.   

[Guest]

Yeah, I guess... But, there are easier ways for a medical office to figure out people's income level than how well-dressed a preschooler is, if that was even the intent of noting the clothing (which I'm guessing was not the case).

 

And, I know some very modest-income folks who dress their children well with careful shopping, etc.

True, but doesn't this still say something about how attentive the parents are to their children? I bought a large amount of my kids clothes at consignment shops, or even Goodwill, but my goal was still for them to be appealingly dressed. whether a lot of money was spent to dress a kid nicely or not, it still indicates whether the parent takes great care in this presentation or not.

 

I can't know for sure, but my guess would be that the physician made this observation mainly as a way of saying, "This is an attentive parent." The children's needs are given enough priority that the parent went so far as matching the hair bows to the outfit. An inattentive parent would not do this. The clothing was appealing, clean and appropriate for the weather. That does actually give some pretty big clues to how the parent interacts with this child.

 

This is a pretty far tangent, but I remember when I went to my first OB appointment when I was pregnant with my fourth baby. She asked a number of questions about my view of the pregnancy and wrote in my chart, "Happy about it." I thought that was very interesting. I don't know exactly what meaning this held, but I did find it interesting to note in the charts. a mother happy about a pregnancy is a different patient from one unhappy about a pregnancy. I just thought it was an interesting fact to note.

[wonderchica]

It wasn't the part about the outfit being clean and appropriate for the situation that I have a problem with because I think that does say something relevant about the family. But the fact that I could afford to put her in a cute coordinated Gymboree outfit should not have any bearing on whether or not the state provides her services.

Why do you think her outfit determines what services she got? I sincerely doubt it had any bearing on the outcome. Most likely it was to note her well-being or to help the psychologist remember which child she was.

[Bluegoat]

The doctor probably didn't spend much time analyzing whether to mention the bows or not.  She probably as a matter of course makes a note of the appearance of the patient, for all kinds of reasons, and for her a description like that works.  Maybe she likes kid's clothes.

[Crimson Wife]

Why do you think her outfit determines what services she got? I sincerely doubt it had any bearing on the outcome. Most likely it was to note her well-being or to help the psychologist remember which child she was.

 

The difference in interactions with professionals when it's obvious I'm Ms. Yuppie Mom vs. wearing casual clothes that don't give away class status. Right now I'm in yoga pants from Costco and a long tank top from Target but in my closet I have some Brooks Brothers suits that I can throw on when I want to look like I've just come from an executive job like I used to have.