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LAmom

High School Science Question

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My dd is in 9th grade this school year.  We plan to do Biology next year (due to co-op options).  I'm not wanting to take a whole year off this year but don't want to do Earth Science/Astronomy, etc.  I was hoping to maybe do Anatomy.

 

So, is there a way I could use Apologia's Anatomy and Physiology that is for Elementary and beef it up (how?)?  Or would GuestHollow's Anatomy be good for 1 credit?  I am not sure if I have to do a lab for it to count.  Could I add in Total Health under that credit?

 

She will do Biology in 10th, Chemistry in 11th, and maybe Physics in 12th.  Biology and Chemistry have labs, I believe.  I think CA requires 2 labs.  I have to check what college require.

 

 

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I don't think Apologia's elementary anatomy book has enough depth to be considered high school level. I think you would have to add in so much material you might as well come up with the whole course yourself. Also, in my experince A & P classes generally have labs, at least mine did.

 

It's not A & P but you could do Novare's Introductory Physics course. It's designed for freshmen and only requires the student have or be taking Alg. 1. You can find it here: https://www.novarescienceandmath.com/product/introductory-physics-2e-bundle/

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No, not high school level. It's not even middle school level, IMO. I would use it through sixth or seventh grade tops, if labs were added.

 

Usually high school anatomy and physiology would come after biology so that students understand basic biological concepts. IMO it would also be better to have at least some basic chemistry first.

 

 

 

ETA: To clarify, I was referring to the Apologia elementary. I don't know about the Guest Hollow materials.

Edited by Penelope
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I agree with others that neither Apologia's elementary A&P nor Guest Hollow would be high school level.   I'd probably lean toward Physical Science if she hasn't done that, or something like Environmental Science or a high school level conceptual Physics.   

 

Apologia's A&P (as would other high school A&P curricula) requires high school Biology as a prerequisite.

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She did Physical Science last year. The PSP I belong to said I can do Anatomy and have her do research papers on different topics (diseases of different systems, etc). This is so confusing! Why wouldn't Guesthollow's Anatomy count?

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She did Physical Science last year. The PSP I belong to said I can do Anatomy and have her do research papers on different topics (diseases of different systems, etc). This is so confusing! Why wouldn't Guesthollow's Anatomy count?

The textbook Guest Hollow uses "Anatomy and Physiology Made Incredibly Easy" isn't a fully fledged textbook. It is meant to be used as a companion text for nursing students taking anatomy in college. Additionally, most colleges probably aren't going to look favorably on a science class that has so many works of fiction assigned. If you were going to do it you would need to do all of the labs and probably strip out all of the fiction. But honestly, I just don't see any colleges accepting it as a full science credit the way it's laid out.

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I was told that what books/curriculum used is not looked at by colleges. Maybe this isn't true--I'm not sure. You document the class, how many credits, and make sure your child does the work for the proper number of hours. What books were used isn't what matters as much as what they know, their ACT score, etc. (from the colleges point-of-view). Wrong?

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We were in exactly the same boat, and chose algebra-based Physics for 9th, with this reasoning: If they (2 students) love physics, they can certainly choose it again in 12th at a higher level. If they DON'T love physics, they will have completed a basic high school version to satisfy the requirements, and will then be free to choose ANY science they like in 12th. 

 

They have both completed Algebra I, but not Algebra II or geometry. 

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I agree with the other posters that it would be difficult to come up with a high school credit-worthy anatomy course for a student who hasn't yet taken biology, and that both Apologia and Guest Hollow are too light for high school. 

 

If she has the math, I would go ahead with either chemistry or physics. If not, environmental science is a viable option. 

 

I was told that what books/curriculum used is not looked at by colleges. Maybe this isn't true--I'm not sure. You document the class, how many credits, and make sure your child does the work for the proper number of hours. What books were used isn't what matters as much as what they know, their ACT score, etc. (from the colleges point-of-view). Wrong?

This can depend on the college, and even on the individual student or admissions officer. You list the textbook (or other major resources) in the course description. If your student has a solid transcript and test scores, the admissions officers at colleges with high acceptance rates likely won't even read your course descriptions. More selective colleges are more likely to read them carefully and question anything that is not at a high school level. 

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We were in exactly the same boat, and chose algebra-based Physics for 9th, with this reasoning: If they (2 students) love physics, they can certainly choose it again in 12th at a higher level. If they DON'T love physics, they will have completed a basic high school version to satisfy the requirements, and will then be free to choose ANY science they like in 12th.

 

They have both completed Algebra I, but not Algebra II or geometry.

What did you use for Physics then?

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What about this? It looks like interesting topics.

 

https://www.masterbooks.com/advanced-pre-med-studies-pack

This looks really great. It would count as a science credit and I would call it pre-med? Do you think colleges would think it was odd she took pre-med if she has no interest in anything science/medical related?

 

I'm still confused what is required. 2 sciences with labs in California. But, colleges prefer 3 sciences. Then why do so many people actual do 4 years of science for non-science majors?

 

Thanks for all the help and patience with my questions!

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If you are in California, I think the textbooks you use can matter for some colleges. I've read discussions on here about Christian publishers not be acceptable for science. 

 

Our state requires four sciences to graduate, even if you aren't going to college. I did five sciences when I was in high school as part of my college prep track because I did two my senior year, advanced biology and advanced chemistry. 

 

My dd's college didn't ask to see any of her textbook lists. They just wanted her scores and her transcript of grades. She did make a 33 on the ACT, though, and qualified for their highest scholarship, so I don't know if that made a difference. 

 

 

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What did you use for Physics then?

 

Well, my first choice would have been to get them in to Clover Creek, but I didn't have my plans finalized in time, so we are going to use our state's online charter (it's like Florida Virtual School) as it seems to be the best fit for (A) my own lack of expertise in the subject and (B) our budget. 

 

I'm on the fence about the state charter, but that's the plan. There's a thread somewhere here (maybe pinned in the high school section?) that lists all the science providers and their math-prerequisites . . . that was SUPER helpful.

 

 

 

Edited to Add: This is the very-helpful thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/540313-homeschool-high-school-physics/

Edited by Lucy the Valiant

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This looks really great. It would count as a science credit and I would call it pre-med? Do you think colleges would think it was odd she took pre-med if she has no interest in anything science/medical related?

 

I'm still confused what is required. 2 sciences with labs in California. But, colleges prefer 3 sciences. Then why do so many people actual do 4 years of science for non-science majors?

 

Thanks for all the help and patience with my questions!

I wouldn't title a high school course pre-med, personally. Pre-med means satisfying college course prerequisites for medical school. I've looked at the previews of the linked course before and to me it looks to be Biology Lite.

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I'm still confused what is required. 2 sciences with labs in California. But, colleges prefer 3 sciences. Then why do so many people actual do 4 years of science for non-science majors?

 

1. Selective colleges "prefer" aka require four years.

 

2. Non-science bound students especially need a rigorous science education in highschool, since they won't get more science in college. For many of us, the purpose of homeschooling is to educate the students, not check boxes so they can get into college - that's why we do four years of science, as well as other things like foreign languages which go beyond admissions requirements.

Edited by regentrude
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This looks really great. It would count as a science credit and I would call it pre-med? Do you think colleges would think it was odd she took pre-med if she has no interest in anything science/medical related?

 

Pre-med is not a good course title. The term is taken to describe a course of study for undergrads that prepares them for medical school.

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1. Selective colleges "prefer" aka require four years.

 

2. Non-science bound students especially need a rigorous science education in highschool, since they won't get more science in college. For many of us, the purpose of homeschooling is to educate the students, not check boxes so they can get into college - that's why we do four years of science, as well as other things like foreign languages which go beyond admissions requirements.

 

 

I am trying to educate the student and get her into college, too.  This is why I care about WHAT I am using for science this year rather than just picking anything.  

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The PSP I belong to said I can do Anatomy and have her do research papers on different topics (diseases of different systems, etc).

Firstly, is the PSP going to supply the transcript since you are not filing a PSA and going through the PSP instead?

 

Secondly, there is the UC/CSU a-g requirements to think about. They require two years of lab science which you can fulfill through a-g approved courses, SAT subject test scores, AP exam scores (Score of 3, 4 or 5 on any two AP Exams in Biology, Chemistry, Physics (B, C, 1 or 2) and Environmental Science), community college courses (For each year of the requirement, a grade of C or better in a transferable course of at least 3 semester (4 in a natural (physical or biological) science with at least 30 hours of laboratory (not "demonstration")). You can fulfil the a-g lab science requirement in 10th and 11th grade so there is no urgency to fulfil that in 9th grade though it would be nice to check off one lab science requirement just in case.

 

Anatomy and Physiology course has a prerequisite of high school Biology credit and high school Chemistry credit for my local public high schools. So it might look weird for A&P to come before Biology and Chemistry. My local public high school also has a textbook list (and course catalog) online and in the SARC. The public high schools guidance counselors can easily forward that information to any college who wants it.

 

ETA:

Example from Arcadia high school in LA county, SoCal. I'm in NorCal.

 

"1800 HUMAN ANATOMY and PHYSIOLOGY A

1801 HUMAN ANATOMY and PHYSIOLOGY B

(Year) Sophomore, Junior, Senior

UC Approved

Completion of Biology and either Chemistry or Physics with a college qualifying grade of “C†or better. Recommendation: Biology with a “C†AND either Physics or Chemistry with a “Câ€

Human Anatomy and Physiology is an elective science course for students interested in further study of science as it relates to humans. This is a challenging course, which emphasizes the anatomy of human structure. The course will cover cell, sensory, muscle, circulatory, and respiratory physiology. Included in the course will be objective tests, group laboratory experiments, research presentations and written assignments. Evaluation of student performance will be based on assessment using tests, lab experiments, and written and oral assignments. The course concludes with a fetal pig dissection."

http://ahs.ausd.net/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1414167/File/Annually%20Updated%20Files/2017-2018%20CURRICULUM%20GUIDE.pdf

Edited by Arcadia
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I woke up this morning and read this thread before coffee (bad decision :-) btw) and I've been mulling it ever since.

 

I just want to encourage you. You sound like a dedicated mother and homeschooler. Your daughter's 9th grade science class won't make or break her college choices or her career! :-) Sometimes folks can get so caught up in rigor and "what *you* should do's" that they lose sight of the bigger picture, or, I suppose, the smaller one: an individual person making decisions for a particular period of time -- and maybe with particular constraints they need to work around like your co-op's schedule (even ps kids can have this problem, especially in smaller schools).

 

It looks like you're in California and I know nothing about those particulars, so I won't even go there. I get that there are specific guidelines for UC schools, and NCAA. 

 

BUT in general, most colleges aren't going to ask for a list of textbooks. None of my IRL homeschool grad friends/ kids of friends have supplied that, and if they had, I can't imagine that they would've lost out on their top school choice because of the textbook of their 9th grade science class, you know? 

 

Yes, in general, A&P are done after biology. Likewise, in the US, most kids still do Physics later in the high school progression because of math. But, you know, some kids now do physics first, and that physics counts. I think the most important part is that there IS a 9th grade science class!

 

BTW, I am using GuestHollow this coming year for my SENIOR.  And I'm really fine with it. Yes, it's a fairly easy textbook. (For a *college* class.) It's not an AP class. And yes, some of the other books are high-interest (read: not rigorous, but interesting). But he's had lots of rigorous science, and this is his 5th science. But even that -- I sound like I'm justifying... Even if it weren't for that, this class is IMO fine for high school. It has lots of dissections as well as other labs. It is interesting -- which I hope means he'll LEARN and REMEMBER (not just memorize for a test). A curriculum is what YOU make it. Even a rigorous curriculum/text can be a milquetoast learning experience -- either because of the teacher (ask me about my high school physics teac... ehmm, coach) or the student. And a seemingly "gentle" one in which the student learns and is engaged can light a fire and ignite a passion! 

Edited by Rockhopper
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I was told that what books/curriculum used is not looked at by colleges. Maybe this isn't true--I'm not sure. You document the class, how many credits, and make sure your child does the work for the proper number of hours. What books were used isn't what matters as much as what they know, their ACT score, etc. (from the colleges point-of-view). Wrong?

 

I think this varies greatly by college.  Some schools with very large enrollment may just be looking for test scores and a transcript that checks the boxes.  Other schools that are highly competitive may want to read more detail about courses.  Others might want to spot check a course like English or history to see what sort of content it had.

 

I also think they may look for what seem like mismatches within the student record.  For example, a student with all As on courses marked honors who has low test scores.  Or a course listed as Honors that uses books that are clearly middle school oriented or conceptual (think Honors English 12 reading The Witch of Blackbird Pond).

 

I know that at least a couple schools said that they wanted to see texts used in the course description.  DS2's admissions officer came to an accepted student event and told me that he really appreciated the course descriptions, because they could see exactly what DS had done, without trying to interpret the level of the work involved.

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This looks really great. It would count as a science credit and I would call it pre-med? Do you think colleges would think it was odd she took pre-med if she has no interest in anything science/medical related?

 

I'm still confused what is required. 2 sciences with labs in California. But, colleges prefer 3 sciences. Then why do so many people actual do 4 years of science for non-science majors?

 

Thanks for all the help and patience with my questions!

 

We do 4 years of science for a couple reasons.  First because I don't know when they are in 9th grade what they might be interested in doing in college.  I require 4 years each of math, English, science, and history (or social studies like government and economics) plus 3 years of a foreign language.  This put them in a position to be competitive even at selective universities.  It also gives them opportunities to discover what subjects they like and are good at.  I don't want to assume that a rising 9th grader, who is just getting his feet wet in algebra won't have an interest in physics or engineering after a couple years.

 

The other reason we tackle several years of science is because I think it's important to understand the world around you. Physics, chemistry, biology, and other sciences (meteorology, and other earth science for example) are how we come to understand how things around us work and how we ourselves work.  I might argue that a student who is not going to study these topics in college has a greater need for taking them in high school, in order to have a more mature foundation to build adult understanding upon.

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What books were used isn't what matters as much as what they know, their ACT score, etc. (from the colleges point-of-view). Wrong?

My oldest boy was looking at a few multivariable calculus courses and if we are not going via the math placement test route, we would need to use his AP Calculus exam score to validate that he meets the prerequisite. California State University system has scrap the math placement tests from Fall 2018 and will rely on school grades and test scores.

 

So in a sense the books used doesn't matter as much if you have the test scores or other ways to validate what they know.

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