How educated are you?

[Pink and Green Mom]

I have a BBA in International Finance, a JD, and I passed the NJ and NY Bar Exams.

 

In law school and as a practicing attorney, I wrote all day long.  I still don't feel qualified to actually teach my children how to write.  I can write, and I can tell the difference between good and bad writing, but I cannot teach either of them how to do it.

[ktgrok]

I have an AS in Veterinary Technology and am not many credits shy of a BA in comparative religion, but will probably never finish that. 

[happypamama]

I have a BA plus I also voted "trades," because I took the classes and hold a license to sell real estate. DH also has a BA, but then he also completed a specialized two year program, similar to a master's, except that a BA/BS isn't required first, in his field. Both of us occasionally contemplate going back to school, him for something related to his career field, me for something totally unrelated to my original field.

 

I don't think a college degree is essential. I think it helps if you can learn along with or ahead of your student in the higher grades, but if you don't know the material already and can learn it, that's great. Or you can outsource. My teen is not beyond my math ability/experience with a quick refresher, but I've certainly (despite a lot of literature classes at the college level) not previously read everything she's reading for literature, so I'll be reading alongside/just ahead of her. And even though I studied French and Italian (that one in college), she wants to speak Spanish and is now beyond my ability to teach it. And I learned Latin from the ground up right with her. There are many ways to Homeschool successfully.

Edited August 7, 2017 by happypamama

[medawyn]

I have two masters degrees and a third partially completed. The first is a dreading specialist degree, which I hated getting every minute of. It taught me a lot about how NOT to teach reading. The only possible way it will help me homeschool is that I have seen a wide variety of struggling readers with problems ranging from poor instruction to severe dyslexia, so hopefully that will help me identify if my own kids need intervention.

 

I also have an MA from St. John's College (the great books school) which showed me how rich education can be with just wonderful books and discussion.

 

I don't think any of my degrees will make me a better educator of my children, but they have certainly reinforced my decision to educate my children through homeschooling.

[elegantlion]

I voted some college and I'm one year from finishing my BA in History and plan on getting at least my master's. 

 

I started college while ds was in high school (homeschooled). So for most of his education (we homeschooled first grade - graduation) I had no college. I did a lot of self-education ahead of ds. I had planned on outsourcing math and science, but life didn't work out that way. He's now a math major (so I didn't kill his love of math somehow). 

 

As far as research papers, I would find a high school course of study on research papers and send yourself through it. As a history major, my research skills have greatly improved and I *would* be a better instructor now. I don't really have a course to recommend, maybe there is a great courses or Coursera course? Also try saylor.org for courses. 

 

A lack of formal education does not mean that you lack the knowledge, you may have to hone the skills in other ways before you teach the subject. In this age, there are ways to do that for almost every subject. 

[G5052]

I had a classical education at a public high school that did their own thing. They had a great books program laid out with different paths for 9th-12th. I also did AP German, AP Biology, and AP English.

 

I completed three years in a great books program school and then transferred to a STEM school.

 

Mine are in college, but there wasn't much that I didn't feel that I could at least help with other than Latin 3 and up. I taught myself Latin to get them started, but I didn't have the time to dedicate to going higher.

[historically accurate]

BA, BS (in two totally different areas). CPA (certificate) and a couple of years toward an MBA. I plan to return for a trade when youngest gets to high school to return to work. None of it besides a love of learning really helped in homeschooling. 

[Harriet Vane]

Some of the discussion about research papers on the general education board is making me feel a little uneducated. I did some college but not much. I wrote some research papers but they were pretty pathetic compared to what I know would be expected of me if I were to write them now. I wonder how my lack of formal education will affect how I teach my children. Not that I agree with this but I can understand why some states require a parent to have finished college in order to homeschool.

 

Re the blue highlights--If you are dedicated to figuring this out and accessing the resources needed, you'll be fine. Be fearless in exploring and asking questions. Far more important than the degree is your bold willingness to learn and to do what it takes.

[MyLife]

I have my Masters of Science, but it is in a specific field. So, having an M.S. doesn't help me in teaching my children writing or literary analysis or history or... In order to teach those subjects, I read, read, read.

[Spryte]

I have degrees in Anthropology and American Studies. American Studies was a writing intensive degree, and I was in the honors department, as well - so even more writing. I would still prefer to outsource teaching writing, because it's not always easy for me to articulate good vs. not-so-good writing.

 

Science, history, social sciences, art - those are fun. Even writing, to a degree, though I think my kids would benefit from another set of eyes, but the bane of my existence is math. I grew up with a math phobia, until college, and don't want to pass that along.

[nixpix5]

I loved college so much. I was the first to go to college in my family and once I got there I didn't want to leave. I have two bachelors of science degrees in psychology and neurobiology and I minored in classical studies. I then did my doctorate work in neurobiology. I did a career change later on and got my masters in clinical psychology and then became licensed. I then went back to school to get degree in school psychology since I had been working in private schools as a therapist. I am done with school and I have found it has helped alot in my ability to homeschool but it is probably more the nature of my degrees. Funny enough my minor in classical studies has been the most useful :)

Edited August 7, 2017 by nixpix5

[wintermom]

I have a Bachelor of Physical Education, Bachelor of Education, and Master of Arts in Sport Psychology. I also studied French and Norwegian parallel to these degrees, taught Aquatics and Life-saving at a Folk High School in Norway, and used French in my career in Canada.  I use my educational background while homeschooling all the time. I also use the skills and information learned in my own personal life a lot.  

 

I can't say whether having a university degree is essential to homeschooling or not, but I will say that it certainly provides me with a lot more confidence and ideas about where and how to find information, resources and opportunities to take advantage of in our homeschool. 

 

I think that my work experiences have been equally as important as educational background in becoming an effective home educator. Having experience working with children of all ages in a variety of subject areas has been helpful in providing information in how to teach my own children. 

[FaithManor]

Two classes into a master's that may never be finished.

[luuknam]

I have "some college" which means less than a semester shy of a bachelor's (though now they've changed their program so it'd take more than that to finish). I also have a truck driving certificate from doing a month-long full-time course at the CC, but I think that's probably too little to say I completed a trades program. When I think of completing a trades program I think of someone who jumped through all the hoops to become an electrician or something, which is a LOT more work. 

 

ETA: I don't think it'd make one iota of a difference to my ability to homeschool whether I finish my bachelor's or not. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by luuknam

[Bluegoat]

I think parent's with all kinds of backgrounds can teach their kids well.  And also, in many cases even the best educated start to need some kind of support, or fid themselves not advanced enough themselves in some subjects, once their kids get to high school.

 

I have a BA in classics and a diploma in library and information technology, as well as some qualifications from the military.I've found them all helpful.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

 

 

A lack of formal education does not mean that you lack the knowledge, you may have to hone the skills in other ways before you teach the subject. In this age, there are ways to do that for almost every subject. 

 

Agreed. Also, the type of degree you have doesn't necessarily help. People often used to say that homeschooling was probably easier for me because I was a teacher. I always replied that it was harder. I had to "unlearn" much of what I was taught. Teaching in a classroom and homeschooling are not at all the same.

[73349]

DH and I both have bachelor's degrees and no particular plans to go further. Our high school didn't teach writing well, so it's good to have done at least some college. For homeschooling in general, though, I'd say that being curious and thoughtful matters more than having reached a particular milestone.

[luuknam]

I got pregnant with my oldest in high school. My dad made me get my GED. I got married to the father of the baby, who was out of high school, and he immediately got a job working with the pipeline. He started out at the bottom as a laborer making $1200-$1500 a week. He has moved up to foreman now (15 years later) making considerably more. He always wanted me to be a stay at home mom, and homeschooling just came naturally. I did plan to go to college at first, took my ACT four weeks before giving birth, and made a 27. I am fairly intelligent, made great grades in high school but struggled with algebra (still do). I'm self educating myself now so I'll be better prepared to help my kids as they start high school. Sometimes I'm really embarrassed to have a GED, like it doesn't make me look smart enough to homeschool my own kids....

 

 

If it's possible money/time-wise, you could go to the CC and take a class in something that sounds like fun (some CCs are pretty cheap, others not so much, and most have all sorts of evening or weekend or w/e classes... or even online ones, though I'm not sure I'd recommend that for someone who hasn't been in school for a number of years and is new to college). When you've finished that class, you can say you've got "some college" to anybody who asks and on surveys and all that. 

 

Not that that is necessary at all, just saying it might be a possibility, if it makes you feel better. Like some PPs mentioned, there are plenty of gifted people with GEDs. For example, my wife got a GED because her parents wouldn't let her take summer classes in high school and she wanted to graduate faster, so she just dropped out after junior year and got a GED (and then went to college, which she didn't finish either... but she is one of those people who were bored in their primary school's gifted program, so it's not an issue of smarts, just other stuff). 

[meganrussell]

If it's possible money/time-wise, you could go to the CC and take a class in something that sounds like fun (some CCs are pretty cheap, others not so much, and most have all sorts of evening or weekend or w/e classes... or even online ones, though I'm not sure I'd recommend that for someone who hasn't been in school for a number of years and is new to college). When you've finished that class, you can say you've got "some college" to anybody who asks and on surveys and all that.

 

Not that that is necessary at all, just saying it might be a possibility, if it makes you feel better. Like some PPs mentioned, there are plenty of gifted people with GEDs. For example, my wife got a GED because her parents wouldn't let her take summer classes in high school and she wanted to graduate faster, so she just dropped out after junior year and got a GED (and then went to college, which she didn't finish either... but she is one of those people who were bored in their primary school's gifted program, so it's not an issue of smarts, just other stuff).

I was in the schools "gifted and talented" program, as well. *I* know I'm smart enough to homeschool my kids, and I love how much I learn by doing it! I have thought about going to CC, but I don't know if I want to give up my "free" time right now. :-)

[wintermom]

Agreed. Also, the type of degree you have doesn't necessarily help. People often used to say that homeschooling was probably easier for me because I was a teacher. I always replied that it was harder. I had to "unlearn" much of what I was taught. Teaching in a classroom and homeschooling are not at all the same.

 

Yes, I had to learn different strategies for working with one or two children instead of a group, but it's not as if you are ignoring all the information you learned at Teacher's College. Child development, learning styles, progressions for learning, etc. are still applicable.

[TravelingChris]

I am in the category of started doctorate but didn't finish.  I got through all the coursework and did exams but having a small baby and having my RA/Sjogren's/Lupus come back with a vengeance after that second child was gone pretty much sealed the fate of me to be homeschooling.  

 

In our case, our degrees helped with homeschooling- mine were economics and then Criminology and his were all physics.  But we attended a very good college and got an excellent well-rounded education in our undergrad that did help in some ways with teaching.  Actually, my training as a law enforcement officer helped too since I had intensive Spanish training too.  But all sorts of learning help.  It doesn't have to be formal. 

 

Did I have an easier job than some other parents because of our education- yes.  But I really think the best benefit we have with all our education is both of us being fully aware of how much we don't know.  

[Shellydon]

Have a both a B.S. and an M.S.  Hubby has a B.S., M.S. and a Ph.D.  I do not think it is necessary to have a college degree to educate your kids well.

[wintermom]

I am in the category of started doctorate but didn't finish.  I got through all the coursework and did exams but having a small baby and having my RA/Sjogren's/Lupus come back with a vengeance after that second child was gone pretty much sealed the fate of me to be homeschooling.  

 

 

This is SOOOOO common. I believe that it's called the PhD A.B D. (all but dissertation).  You are in good company. It is still a wonderful accomplishment!

[Guest]

This is SOOOOO common. I believe that it's called the PhD A.B D. (all but dissertation). You are in good company. It is still a wonderful accomplishment!

I didn't know there were people who had a PhD ABD. Can you still "say" you have a PhD? Or do you have to say, for the sake of honesty, "I almost completed a PhD, but I didn't do my dissertation." Do they award you with a doctoral certificate? I'm just curious.

[luuknam]

I didn't know there were people who had a PhD ABD. Can you still "say" you have a PhD? Or do you have to say, for the sake of honesty, "I almost completed a PhD, but I didn't do my dissertation." Do they award you with a doctoral certificate? I'm just curious.

 

 

AFAIK... No. It's more like having a master's degree... the research and dissertation are the main part of a PhD. 

[Lady Florida.]

Yes, I had to learn different strategies for working with one or two children instead of a group, but it's not as if you are ignoring all the information you learned at Teacher's College. Child development, learning styles, progressions for learning, etc. are still applicable.

 

I was thinking more in terms of mindset. Professional teacher mindset is: Teacher imparts knowledge. Student learns. Student shows teacher how well he learned through tests and other (usually written) assessments. 

 

With homeschooling imo, there's much more give and take, child-led (to a degree) learning, and the student taking on more of the responsibility as he gets older. At least that's how it was in our house. ETA: and no tests.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[regentrude]

I didn't know there were people who had a PhD ABD. Can you still "say" you have a PhD? Or do you have to say, for the sake of honesty, "I almost completed a PhD, but I didn't do my dissertation." Do they award you with a doctoral certificate? I'm just curious.

 

No, the person who did not finish and defend her thesis has not actually earned a PhD. You don't receive the doctorate until after your thesis defense.

[Guest]

No, the person who did not finish and defend her thesis has not actually earned a PhD. You don't receive the doctorate until after your thesis defense.

That's what I thought. I think it would gall me, personally.

 

I have a very intelligent friend who completed a Computer Science masters and finished almost all of a Mathematics masters. (I think she got pregnant or whatever; something distracted her and she didn't finish.) I always think, "That would just bug the heck out of me. Don't you want to just go knock out that last little bit? I would be dying to say 'I have a double masters in Comp Sci and Mathematics.' It would annoy me so much to not be able to claim that second degree. 😄

Edited August 7, 2017 by Quill

[regentrude]

That's what I thought. I think it would gall me, personally.

 

I have a very intelligent friend who completed a Computer Science masters and finished almost all of a Mathematics masters. (I think she got pregnant or whatever; something distracted her and she didn't finish.) I always think, "That would just bug the heck out of me. Don't you want to just go knock out that last little bit? I would be dying to say 'I have a double masters in Comp Sci and Mathematics.' It would annoy me so much to not be able to claim that second degree. 😄

 

I know - but the research and thesis writing is the major part of the degree. The classwork is the smaller part.

What would really be irritating is to have done the research, analyzed the data, and stop while writing the thesis. My sister had her thesis for her medical degree started - she had the research complete, data analyzed, and, in contrast to many medical theses, had actually done real scientific research. She just never finished her dissertation! I don't understand that. I get life events, babies, illness- but to be this close and not finish, for no actual reason?

But then, I found that the hardest part of the PhD is actually having the patience to write the thesis. It's a marathon, and it takes forever, and it is so, so boring to revise the umpteenth draft with the advisor's umpteenth set of comments. It's more a test of whether you have the endurance to actually stick it out to the end than anything else.

Edited August 7, 2017 by regentrude

[Guest]

I know - but the research and thesis writing is the major part of the degree. The classwork is the smaller part.

What would really be irritating is to have done the research, analyzed the data, and stop while writing the thesis. My sister had her thesis for her medical degree started - she had the research complete, data analyzed, and, in contrast to many medical theses, had actually done real scientific research. She just never finished her dissertation! I don't understand that. I get life events, babies, illness- but to be this close and not finish, for no actual reason?

But then, I found that the hardest part of the PhD is actually having the patience to write the thesis. It's a marathon, and it takes forever, and it is so, so boring to revise the umpteenth draft with the advisor's umpteenth set of comments. It's more a test of whether you have the endurance to actually stick it out to the end than anything else.

I'm also assuming there's only so long you can sit on that before it is no longer "fresh" enough to present for dissertation, right? So, your sister couldn't just pick it back up after a hiatus, finish writing the thesis, present for the board, and recieve the degree. I'm guessing it becomes null at some point, though I don't know how long; maybe it depends on the subject researched.

[Crimson Wife]

I didn't know there were people who had a PhD ABD. Can you still "say" you have a PhD? Or do you have to say, for the sake of honesty, "I almost completed a PhD, but I didn't do my dissertation." Do they award you with a doctoral certificate? I'm just curious.

 

My grandma was ABD. She was working on her Radcliffe dissertation when WW2 broke out and she married my grandfather, who was a fellow Harvard PhD. student. My grandfather got drafted and my grandma went to work as an analyst for the OSS (precursor to the CIA). After the war, she turned her dissertation research into a book since that could be done from home on her own time table while she was raising her kids. She never received her PhD. but my grandfather did finish his dissertation and received his doctorate.

 

I think it did bother her to some degree to just be Mrs. So-and-So rather than Dr. So-and-So in her own right, but that era did not look kindly on employed moms. I've read a newspaper profile of her after one of her books got published and it was the WORST kind of 1950's misogynistic cr@p portraying her as a little housewife who writes to keep herself busy while the kids are in school :ack2:

[Frances]

I didn't know there were people who had a PhD ABD. Can you still "say" you have a PhD? Or do you have to say, for the sake of honesty, "I almost completed a PhD, but I didn't do my dissertation." Do they award you with a doctoral certificate? I'm just curious.

No, you don't have a PhD and you don't get a certificate, although many people would already have gotten a Master's, I did. Some people do actually put ABD on a resume or vita, I personally chose not too. I have absolutely no regrets about not finishing. I think it bothered my husband more because he somehow felt responsible since he moved to start his PhD before I finished mine.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I voted "homeschooled for all of my formal education". I attended a private school for K and 1st though. During my high school years I did math (Alg 1&2 and Geometry) and wrote a lot about what I read. I spent a lot of time practicing the piano and violin and taking lessons. I didn't do any formal, organized history, science, grammar, literature, or foreign language. I really wish that I had but my parents were trying to figure things out in a time when homeschooling was rare. There weren't many options available and the one they chose was questionable at best. I'm not upset with them. They were doing the best they could and figuring it all out as they went along. My younger siblings did more traditional high school course work, have transcripts, and several have attended college or are currently attending. I don't have transcripts nor did I attend college. I did take the SAT and scored above average. I hope to go to college in the future and get a nursing degree. I feel that I'm a decently intelligent person and I love to study and learn. I am nervous though that college may show me differently. In regards to what inspired the OP, research papers, I've never written one although I always wanted to.

 

I do sometimes worry about my ability to homeschool my kids. There's so much that I didn't learn! But then I think about the things I did learn but have since forgotten. I still manage to teach those things. I just study it myself and then explain it to them or learn alongside them. There are so many resources available now that I think quality homeschooling is still possible in spite of my limited education. I can choose curricula that teaches to the student or offers more hand holding for the teacher, or outsource with on-line or local classes.

Edited August 7, 2017 by 2ndgenhomeschooler

[regentrude]

I'm also assuming there's only so long you can sit on that before it is no longer "fresh" enough to present for dissertation, right? So, your sister couldn't just pick it back up after a hiatus, finish writing the thesis, present for the board, and recieve the degree. I'm guessing it becomes null at some point, though I don't know how long; maybe it depends on the subject researched.

 

Yes. How long depends on subject and area, some are more short lived than others - but in my sister's case, after more than a decade, any almost finished thesis in a drawer would be obsolete.

[Liz CA]

Thank you for the encouragement! My 9th grader is doing consumer math this year, so I can do algebra this year! That way I'll be prepared to help her next year. Would you recommend teaching textbooks algebra for me? Or something else?

 

Teaching textbooks lay everything out in easy to understand terms. People here also like Math U See - I have never used it but it sounds "user-friendly."

 

[kroe1]

Some of the discussion about research papers on the general education board is making me feel a little uneducated. I did some college but not much. I wrote some research papers but they were pretty pathetic compared to what I know would be expected of me if I were to write them now. I wonder how my lack of formal education will affect how I teach my children. Not that I agree with this but I can understand why some states require a parent to have finished college in order to homeschool.

Sorry, I did not read the other posts.

 

1. Did you need college when you taught your kiddo to potty train?

2. You are teaching through high school. Did you need college to complete high school?

3. You are in charge of the answer books.

 

I have a doctorate, but, not in teaching. I have no idea how my unrelated doctorate helped homeschooling except that I have a job from that doctorate that allows me to buy cool homeschooling things.

[Liz CA]

That's what I thought. I think it would gall me, personally.

 

I have a very intelligent friend who completed a Computer Science masters and finished almost all of a Mathematics masters. (I think she got pregnant or whatever; something distracted her and she didn't finish.) I always think, "That would just bug the heck out of me. Don't you want to just go knock out that last little bit? I would be dying to say 'I have a double masters in Comp Sci and Mathematics.' It would annoy me so much to not be able to claim that second degree. 😄

 

Me too. Which is why I had to finish my "unfinished business." Just 20 years later. :)

 

[Liz CA]

A lack of formal education does not mean that you lack the knowledge, you may have to hone the skills in other ways before you teach the subject. In this age, there are ways to do that for almost every subject. 

 

Very true. I'd love to be able to afford the PsyD but its cost is prohibitive at the moment. And were I 20 years younger, I'd have more "amortization" period and would perhaps be more willing to go into debt which I am not at this point in life.

BUT this does not keep me from taking seminars and courses in the field I am most interested in, it does not keep me from approaching experts in the field and ask questions or request to observe during some session/ process.

 

Learning takes place but I do not have a piece of paper for everything I learned. I understand that in some areas, you cannot get a job without the PhD paper, etc, fortunately I am working in my field with the lower degree that I have and I can still be helpful to my clients by having educated myself at a higher level than my degree has taken me. IOW, the more I know, the more beneficial I can be to those I am supposed to help - with or without a piece of paper.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Liz CA

[Loowit]

I have an AA degree.  It was from a community college to transfer to a university.  I attended 5+ years of college, but never completed anything else.  I went back to school after getting married and got a certificate as a medical assistant, but due to medical problems never worked in that field beyond my externship.  I would love to go back to school, not necessarily for a degree, but I am not sure it is worth the money right now for me to do it just for "fun". 

 

If there are areas I am weak in teaching, I find others to help me.  DH, no degree but years of college, is wonderful at math and is the go to parent if kids have questions.  If he isn't available, DH's best friend is a high school math teacher and is happy to help out.

 

My mom was one quarter short for her AA degree.  She quit to get married.  I always wonder if she regrets not finishing, but she never has said.

[gardenmom5]

I know - but the research and thesis writing is the major part of the degree. The classwork is the smaller part.

What would really be irritating is to have done the research, analyzed the data, and stop while writing the thesis. My sister had her thesis for her medical degree started - she had the research complete, data analyzed, and, in contrast to many medical theses, had actually done real scientific research. She just never finished her dissertation! I don't understand that. I get life events, babies, illness- but to be this close and not finish, for no actual reason?

But then, I found that the hardest part of the PhD is actually having the patience to write the thesis. It's a marathon, and it takes forever, and it is so, so boring to revise the umpteenth draft with the advisor's umpteenth set of comments. It's more a test of whether you have the endurance to actually stick it out to the end than anything else.

 

this was my sil - she did everything but the thesis for her masters. she was healthy, and she did NOT have the excuse of getting married or having kids.  (she did that later.)

dh did a master's program that didn't require a thesis.

dsil just got his mba - and they had a project, no thesis.

 

 

No, you don't have a PhD and you don't get a certificate, although many people would already have gotten a Master's, I did. Some people do actually put ABD on a resume or vita, I personally chose not too. I have absolutely no regrets about not finishing. I think it bothered my husband more because he somehow felt responsible since he moved to start his PhD before I finished mine.

 

that's hubris to claim the doc (or any degree) without finishing it.

 

1dd was too ill to do the doc she wanted (computational linguistics) - but she would have skipped the ma.  now- she's got a mortgage payment and does fine without it.

2dd's top ten pharmd program doesn't even require a ba/bs!   just meet the prereq's, and that can be done in as little as two years. (her undergrad is chem/minor-bio and there were two classes she still had to take. one of them was communications.)

[Liz CA]

Yes. How long depends on subject and area, some are more short lived than others - but in my sister's case, after more than a decade, any almost finished thesis in a drawer would be obsolete.

 

That would be sad to me too. I am sure she had compelling reasons but a thesis is the culmination of everything you have studied and accomplished. This must be hard - to have it sitting unfinished on a computer, or in a drawer. 

In order to be awarded the medical degree / PhD, would she need to select a new topic and start the thesis over but her other academic achievements (classes completed) are still valid?

[SKL]

As far as me teaching writing - I'm a very good writer by all accounts, I enjoy writing, I understand writing.  However, for me, writing seems to come naturally [mostly], so the idea of teaching the structure to someone who hasn't internalized it is a bit scary.  I haven't had to test my ability to teach it so far.  Right now I just encourage creative free writing in some contexts, and correct grammar in other contexts.  And I expose the kids to good literature, which is supposed to make a difference.  One hopes it all comes together at some point.  :P  All that to say, I'm not confident that my education makes me a good writing teacher.  :)

[SKL]

I know - but the research and thesis writing is the major part of the degree. The classwork is the smaller part.

What would really be irritating is to have done the research, analyzed the data, and stop while writing the thesis. My sister had her thesis for her medical degree started - she had the research complete, data analyzed, and, in contrast to many medical theses, had actually done real scientific research. She just never finished her dissertation! I don't understand that. I get life events, babies, illness- but to be this close and not finish, for no actual reason?

But then, I found that the hardest part of the PhD is actually having the patience to write the thesis. It's a marathon, and it takes forever, and it is so, so boring to revise the umpteenth draft with the advisor's umpteenth set of comments. It's more a test of whether you have the endurance to actually stick it out to the end than anything else.

 

I agree.  It's not the same in law, but you do have to produce a "publishable paper," and that was the most stressful part of my law school experience.  :P  For a while I was afraid I would not graduate over that stupid paper (which, by the way, had nothing to do with my actual career).

 

[regentrude]

That would be sad to me too. I am sure she had compelling reasons but a thesis is the culmination of everything you have studied and accomplished. This must be hard - to have it sitting unfinished on a computer, or in a drawer. 

In order to be awarded the medical degree / PhD, would she need to select a new topic and start the thesis over but her other academic achievements (classes completed) are still valid?

 

The system works differently in Germany. She has a medical degree and is allowed to practice in her specialty; she is a physician, just does not have a doctorate. This has consequences for career advancement. She also does not have the certification exam in her specialty, for reasons i cannot comprehend. Whatever. She is a grown up woman in her fourties, and there is nothing I could say that she has not thought of herself already.

Edited August 7, 2017 by regentrude

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have a high school diploma and a vocational diploma - I was a medical assistant. I have four entirely Hs'ed sons.

 

The eldest was a national merit finalist and went to college on a dean's scholarship. He is in the honors program, halfway through his bachelor's program. He is majoring in religion with concentrations in Greek and something administrative (?), and minoring in philosophy. If he continues as he has begun, his mentor believes he will receive full merit tuition to seminary. His goal is to be a healthcare chaplain. He will graduate debt free; he works over thirty hours per week to pay his very small loans, and is also able to support himself in shared, off campus housing. He's something of a go getter.

 

Son #2, after planning to go into skilled labor like his dad, decided at the eleventh hour to go to college. He received merit scholarships as high as his brother's and is also projected to graduate debt free. He starts school in three weeks. He plans to be a physical therapist, but if he finds he's good at going to college, he would like to go on to become a doctor - specifically, an osteopath.

 

Son #3 is a rising eleventh grader. He is proficient in Greek and Latin, and total nut over history and classical literature. He's decided he doesn't like the careers associated with those passions, so he has decided to pursue another interest: He wants to be an orthotist and prosthetist. He has a health condition that makes him very familiar with this field, and he already has mentors and support. Right now he's working his butt off for merit scholarships. I think he'll make it.

 

Son #4 is being moved from seventh to eighth grade this year, because his academic skills are proficient enough, he's got the maturity, and we want to get him into dual enrollment or early college opportunities as soon as possible. He's something of an artistic genius, and has mentors and teachers in our city who are helping him to prepare for art college.

 

So that's us. I won't get into the reasons I didn't go to college, or explain how I learned to succeed at hs'ing. I will share a few opinions, for those who are considering hs'ing:

 

1. Success doesn't just happen. Not sending them to school does not mean they'll learn more, contrary to many hs'ing families' opinion! I cannot count the number of hs'ers I've known who think their kids are smarter for not having gone to school, yet they haven't taught them, or filled the house with books, or anything. I'm sorry, but these are nearly all Gothard/ATI families (think Duggars). There's a word for what they are training their children in, and that word is ignorance. I am very concerned about the next generation of hs'ing in these families. The young mothers are not well educated enough to teach, have never seen it modeled, and don't even know what they're lacking.

 

2. For others without a college education who do not intend to neglect your children, please find out what you don't know. "I think I'm pretty smart" doesn't fill in any gaps at all. Have the humility to open the door to the whole wide world. SWB's WTM and WEM are an excellent place to start! Get some subscriptions, or go to the library to read periodicals about a wide swath of life: Scientific American, The Economist, Forbes, National Geographic, Smithsonian Magazine. Read newspapers from the east coast. Add flavor with The Atlantic, New Yorker. Read something from another country, I like The Guardian from the UK. Listen to NPR. You can't broaden your child's mind or horizons if you won't broaden your own.

 

3. Don't expect things from your children that you can't do yourself, or you'll top out on your ability to evaluate their work too soon. Work out those exercises yourself, the night before you assign them to your child. If your child is frustrated or fatigued by outlining, long division, composition, try it yourself so you'll know why it's hard! Model the discipline to conquer it. Learn together.

 

4. When your child does outpace your ability to direct and facilitate his studies, admit it. (There's that humility again.) There is NO shame in hitting the wall - when care of younger children and household, need to work a paying job, or just topping out on your own capacity to learn at your child's speed - and you know it's best for them to outsource more or to enroll in school. But if you keep hs'ing past the point where he's able to learn and grow, then you should be ashamed that your stubborn pride or outgrown convictions are holding your child back! If the day comes that he needs more, give thanks for your time together and for the excellent foundation that YOU were able to provide, and let him go.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Tibbie Dunbar

[ashfern]

Master programs are really different. My DH has an MBA and I have an MPH. We had totally different types of writing that we were taught/required to do.

[Arcadia]

Regarding research papers, my husband was only trained to write technical research papers. He only writes technical conference papers as part of his job. His employer hires people to rewrite the patents in the proper format for submission to the US patents office. What we find harder was writing meeting minutes which we learned on the job.

 

My oldest child exceeded my knowledge last year. I could learn alongside him but I am too exhausted to so we outsourced those subjects. It is also partially a time issue as my younger child needs more hand holding so the much more independent child gets the outsourced classes to save me time learning just to catch up with him.

 

. I'm guessing it becomes null at some point, though I don't know how long; maybe it depends on the subject researched.

It might also depend on the university and department policies. My husband's phd dissertation paper topic is still quite current, nothing change much on the nanoscale on silicon wafers. However there was a 7 year limit set for a part-time phd and shorter when done full time. He skip masters and completed his phd in three years. My part time MBA had a limit of five years to complete even though extension can be granted on a case by case basis.

[TravelingChris]

I actually did do research but in my master's program.  It was on erotomania- the delusion belief that someone is in love with you (usually a stranger or almost complete stranger) and ties to criminal behavior.  My research found that there are many causes of erotomania from brain tumors to diabetes to more commonly, other mental disorders.  It also found that criminal behavior was linked to the same criminal behavior patterns as usual crime- male and younger in age.  And one national organization did request my thesis.

 

[luuknam]

2. For others without a college education who do not intend to neglect your children, please find out what you don't know. "I think I'm pretty smart" doesn't fill in any gaps at all. Have the humility to open the door to the whole wide world. SWB's WTM and WEM are an excellent place to start! Get some subscriptions, or go to the library to read periodicals about a wide swath of life: Scientific American, The Economist, Forbes, National Geographic, Smithsonian Magazine. Read newspapers from the east coast. Add flavor with The Atlantic, New Yorker. Read something from another country, I like The Guardian from the UK. Listen to NPR. You can't broaden your child's mind or horizons if you won't broaden your own.

 

 

I mostly agree with what you posted, but not having a college education does not necessarily mean that one is ignorant. E.g. my high school education included things like calculus, calculus-based physics, etc... basically the equivalent of a bunch of AP courses. I subscribed to Scientific American in high school, and my dad subscribed to Nat Geo, so I read that too, as well as the newspaper, and occasionally some articles from foreign newspapers like Le Monde or Der Spiegel. I did a year abroad in Thailand as an exchange student. So, to be honest, it sounds pretty patronizing to tell someone like that that they should read some magazines and TWTM and WEM just because they don't have a college education (now, I don't think you'd consider me to be "without a college education", since I have *some* college, but w/e... my point is that there's a big difference in how well-educated people with a high school diploma are (and also a big difference in how well-educated people with college degrees are, for that matter)). 

 

Btw, it's probably a good idea for everyone to occasionally read some of the magazines you mentioned, as things keep changing and there's always more to learn. 

[Bluegoat]

 

 

 

2. For others without a college education who do not intend to neglect your children, please find out what you don't know. "I think I'm pretty smart" doesn't fill in any gaps at all. Have the humility to open the door to the whole wide world. SWB's WTM and WEM are an excellent place to start! Get some subscriptions, or go to the library to read periodicals about a wide swath of life: Scientific American, The Economist, Forbes, National Geographic, Smithsonian Magazine. Read newspapers from the east coast. Add flavor with The Atlantic, New Yorker. Read something from another country, I like The Guardian from the UK. Listen to NPR. You can't broaden your child's mind or horizons if you won't broaden your own.

 

 

 

This is reasonable advice for anyone, I think.

 

I have met plenty of people with university degrees who were pretty poorly or, perhaps, narrowly, educated.