Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

ThatBookwormMom

Can we talk about pot?

Recommended Posts

*PLEASE keep this respectful, folks. I don't wish for mud-slinging and locked threads. Citing sources is super helpful.*

 

I'm going to start this thread and run away (because my life is crazy at present, and I have to do adult stuff all this week instead of hanging out here like I'd vastly prefer), but I have been wondering about a couple of marijuana-related questions. I will be coming back to read replies as I can.

 

Marijuana is legal medicinally in my state, but there's a grassroots movement to legalize it recreationally. I want to be informed on this subject, but Googling gives me radically different opinions where I'm looking for facts, and my searching skills are not great for this kind of research. Anyone know where I can find some reputable information?

 

Also, what is your opinion on this issue, and why? (Again, please discuss respectfully. I really wanna know and explore this issue, as I've never really pondered the implications before, and you folks always get me thinking.)

 

Thirdly, (and maybe cause for its own thread), I have a newly pregnant friend who is smoking pot to control morning sickness/increase appetite, on the advice of her lifestyle guru/life coach, who is Jamaican and swears her family produces genius babies this way. I need to know how to talk to her about this, because at the moment I'm pretty speechless. Thoughts?

 

Edited to remove some personal info.

Edited by MamaStephanina
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion is pregnant women should not smoke pot & your friend is more concerned with herself than the baby. As for medicinal purposes, I believe it has merit. As for recreational use - whether it's legal or not people will smoke it.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big problem that I've been hearing about in Colorado is that kids have access to it easier - not that they're purposely getting marijuana, but they are accidentally getting it.  They can put marijuana in anything - including gummy bears (which I've heard is trying to be banned).  People bake it into brownies and peanut brittle.  Here's just one article among many.  

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/25/colorado-kids-emergency-room-visits-marijuana-increased/

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have data for you. I live in a state where pot is legal recreationally. Some things I don't like about it:

1) pot dispensaries everywhere. I think we have close to 10 in our town. They are marked with green crosses. They are much more noticeable than say bars.

2) pot advertising. I do not like seeing billboards for pot. Radio ads make it sound like you have to be high to enjoy weekends and nature.

 

So it's legal here, and I don't have strong opinions about what adults of legal age choose to do. But I will note that my observation is that people who have their life together don't use pot. The ads don't say that. Your employer or potential employer can still legally test you for drugs and not hire you or can fire you for using. The ads don't say that. It is extremely easy for young people to think that using pot doesn't have negative consequences--all the ads make it seem so desirable and harmless. (I'm aware that this is my opinion. I'm sure there are users out there who say "Hey--I'm successful and I use pot.)

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in favor of legalization. I think we spend a fortune punishing people for victimless crimes, which disproportionately hits black communities. Our entire war on drugs does more harm than good. We'd be better off spending that money on recovery and addiction services for people who want it.

 

I do not believe a pregnant woman should be smoking pot, but I don't know of any studies or anything to back that up...

  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

growing up - my brother not only used, he grew and dealt.  I was exposed to this, and his friends, a lot.  and it was very illegal in those days.  I don't need to read the studies about how it makes teenagers stupid/restricts brain development - I saw it in them.

my brother eventually got clean - and is very very against its use.  he'd lecture his own kids and demand they never use it.

My bil only gave up smoking it about 10 years ago.  late 40s?/early 50s?   it shows in his face.  but he says he feels better.  my sister also used, but not as heavily.  she also strongly discouraged her own kids from using.  (politically - she's very very liberal.  so this is about her own experience, not her politics.)

 

no. way. in. hell!

 

that your friend is smoking it every day is very scary to think what it is doing to the developing baby's brain.

 

then there are the increased accidents in the states where it is legal for recreational use.  and the kids with easier access . . . and the number of pets getting into the stuff and having emergency vet visits . . . .

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having worked with young people with addictions I have some mixed thoughts about weed.

 

No, I don't think your friend should be smoking anything while pregnant and she should be discussing this with her pediatrician.

 

Marijuana isn't a lethal, dangerous drug. If I had to choose someone smoking weed or drinking alcohol I would pick weed. With that said though it is still not a great idea. You will read it isn't addictive which is a falsehood. When I worked in the lab we would patch clap neurons and apply active components in marijuana to look at various neuronal firing patterns based on cannabiboid receptor types and so forth. Neuronal behavior says otherwise. Having seen plenty of teens abuse it not be able to quit even when they wanted to...well...I just think any chemical that messes with your neurotransmitters and dopamine is a bad idea. It can induce depression when cutting back as well.

 

State wide I am not loving the effects it is having in Washington State. Since legalization our driving accidents have increased in enormous proportion. In the area we live our insurance went from around 150 per month for 2 cars to almost 300. When I complained to our agent they said it was due to both increase in crime and increase in driving incidents in the area. While you cannot prove it was due to an increase in marijuana use, looking at the lock step comparison graphs is compelling.

 

As far as people starting in adulthood I have no experience with that and won't speak to it. Starting in the teen years is what I know well and I have seen some sad things happen. You will hear marijuana isn't a "gateway" drug and while the wording sounds fear mongering I so believe over all it opens the doors for teens to begin equating euphoric feelings relief from emotions and so forth with placing a substance in their bodies. Due to young people being more adventurous they do tend to be more willing to try other things if they are marijuana smokers. Also, tolerance does occur. Over time the same effect diminishes and people who use it to cope will seek out other coping mechanisms often in the form of chemicals.

 

The other down side is that the young people I worked with had diminished drive for life. They had poorer grades, less follow through, more family conflicts, more peer conflicts and so forth overall. I have met a couple people in my life who have been just fine with their habit. They were the exception though and not the rule.

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I firmly believe in the medicinal benefits of marijuana. DH likes a show called Weediquette on Viceland and they've had a lot of really interesting episodes. One that really resonated with me was about vets with PTSD and how the VA had them on so many pills, bottles and bottles. There was a vet who started a detox home that used marijuana to help wean off the medicine, and the differences were amazing. 

 

There was another episode about kids with severe medical problems and how marijuana (not smoking it, but maybe the oil - it's been awhile since I watched it) helped the kids manage their conditions. 

 

https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/weediquette-id

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with the legalization of it with age restrictions just like alcohol. I used to smoke pot every now and then as a teen. It is just like everything else, it will effect people differently. I had no problem smoking it once or twice a month and not having it be an issue. But I had friends who seemed to need it daily. They got pretty annoying so I chose to distance myself from them. Some went on to do worse drugs, others didn't, most stalled in their maturity and drive to progress at things. But we were all teens when we started and I'm not for teens using legally.

 

As an adult, I haven't been high in a decade. I know plenty of adults who smoke pot and none of them are like the stoners I knew as a teen. They are productive members of society who enjoy it recreationally at times.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not read previous comments.

 

The negative aspects of recreational pot are often understated - possibly because it's illegal and people figure there is no need to harp on it.  Sorry I can't post citations, but every serious source I've read says it's physically worse for you than cigarettes, i.e. a joint is way more damaging to the lungs etc.

 

As for the lifestyle effects, everyone I know who used to smoke pot will admit that it pretty much killed their drive / ambition to make something of their lives.  I think that is a huge loss for individuals, families, and the larger community.  I'm sure it is partly to blame for the slowing of our technological development as a nation.

 

So it really bugs me when I see people talk as if it's neutral or "not as bad as cigarettes" etc.  I don't want this to be a legal option for my kids as they are growing up or building a career.

 

Using it for morning sickness, I don't know the research - I would not smoke it though, even if I had tons of evidence that ingesting it is good for the baby.  I would find some other way to get it into my bloodstream without blackening my lungs.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not read previous comments.

 

The negative aspects of recreational pot are often understated - possibly because it's illegal and people figure there is no need to harp on it.  Sorry I can't post citations, but every serious source I've read says it's physically worse for you than cigarettes, i.e. a joint is way more damaging to the lungs etc.

 

As for the lifestyle effects, everyone I know who used to smoke pot will admit that it pretty much killed their drive / ambition to make something of their lives.  I think that is a huge loss for individuals, families, and the larger community.  I'm sure it is partly to blame for the slowing of our technological development as a nation.

 

So it really bugs me when I see people talk as if it's neutral or "not as bad as cigarettes" etc.  I don't want this to be a legal option for my kids as they are growing up or building a career.

 

Using it for morning sickness, I don't know the research - I would not smoke it though, even if I had tons of evidence that ingesting it is good for the baby.  I would find some other way to get it into my bloodstream without blackening my lungs.

 

That's not what I've heard. Source?

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2012/01/11282/marijuana-shown-be-less-damaging-lungs-tobacco

And the actual study: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1104848

 

There are plenty of studies that found it isn't great for your lungs, but I haven't seen one that says it's actually worse than cigarettes.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have data for you. I live in a state where pot is legal recreationally. Some things I don't like about it:

1) pot dispensaries everywhere. I think we have close to 10 in our town. They are marked with green crosses. They are much more noticeable than say bars.

2) pot advertising. I do not like seeing billboards for pot. Radio ads make it sound like you have to be high to enjoy weekends and nature.

 

So it's legal here, and I don't have strong opinions about what adults of legal age choose to do. But I will note that my observation is that people who have their life together don't use pot. The ads don't say that. Your employer or potential employer can still legally test you for drugs and not hire you or can fire you for using. The ads don't say that. It is extremely easy for young people to think that using pot doesn't have negative consequences--all the ads make it seem so desirable and harmless. (I'm aware that this is my opinion. I'm sure there are users out there who say "Hey--I'm successful and I use pot.)

 

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're excluding cancer patients and children with difficult-to-treat epilepsy when you say things like that.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have data for you. I live in a state where pot is legal recreationally. Some things I don't like about it:

1) pot dispensaries everywhere. I think we have close to 10 in our town. They are marked with green crosses. They are much more noticeable than say bars.

2) pot advertising. I do not like seeing billboards for pot. Radio ads make it sound like you have to be high to enjoy weekends and nature.

 

So it's legal here, and I don't have strong opinions about what adults of legal age choose to do. But I will note that my observation is that people who have their life together don't use pot. The ads don't say that. Your employer or potential employer can still legally test you for drugs and not hire you or can fire you for using. The ads don't say that. It is extremely easy for young people to think that using pot doesn't have negative consequences--all the ads make it seem so desirable and harmless. (I'm aware that this is my opinion. I'm sure there are users out there who say "Hey--I'm successful and I use pot.)

ITA^^^ I live in WA where it's also legal recreationally. I'm not opposed to using medicinally at all, but I don't agree with recreational use. And I definitely don't think it's a good idea for a pregnant woman. The people I encounter daily at work that are obvious recreational users most certainly aren't 'geniuses', so I don't think that theory holds any water. Edited by Bethany Grace
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe a pregnant woman should be smoking anything.  Period.  Biologically I can't fathom it being good for the baby.

 

Medicinally I have no problem with pot.

 

Recreationally, I have no interest myself (nor for any other major drug other than caffeine).  However, I know others differ in their choices/desires and I don't feel pot should be illegal any more than alcohol is.  (Meaning age limits, DUI still being a thing, etc.)  I'd have no desire to partake whether it's legal or not personally, but it would save a bit in law enforcement money plus bring in a bit in taxes to make it more like alcohol.  If folks are going to get high anyway (and they are), so be it.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any problem with adults using marijuana recreationally as long as they do it responsibly. Getting high and driving, for example, is obviously not responsible. And employers should definitely be able to set clear guidelines that prevent employees from coming into work stoned just as they would with employees coming to work drunk.

 

I wouldn't use it during pregnancy, either. As with most substances and how they affect pregnancy there aren't a lot of studies for ethical reasons, but imo, what we know so far from animal studies isn't promising. The studies on humans are difficult because women who tend to smoke pot during pregnancy also tend to smoke cigarettes, and obviously there's no way to know which adverse effects are from marijuana and which are from the cigarettes.

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X16300749

 

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always find this discussion interesting. Some people say it makes people lazy and unmotivated while others know people who are productive individuals. Obviously, it isnt affecting all individuals the same way.

 

A know quite a few people that smoke but I do not. So, I am giving my observations of adults I know who smoke.

 

First, I agree with nixpix. I would rather a person smoke pot than drink. I think it tends to have a less dehabiliting affect than alcohol. I would be far more likely to trust someone who is high vs drunk to make reasonable decisions and to drive.

 

I also agree that it does seem to be addictive for some people. I wonder if it is like alcohol in the sense that some people develop an addiction while others do not.

 

Where I find a disconnect is in how these people are perceived as lazy, unmotivated, etc. The people I know are hard working, productive members of society. They are motivated and often well respected in their fields. It isn't the movie Half Baked where a bunch of morons sit around smoking.

 

While it has medical uses, it is obviously not a miracle drug and has its negative effects. There is no one size fits all answer to how it affects people, though we know some people are more negatively affected than others. At this point, it seems pretty comparable to alcohol. It's so widely available where I live, you would assume it is legal. I'm pro-legalization.

Edited by MaeFlowers
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any comments on its benefits, but we visited Colorado this winter and it seemed the smell is everywhere in tourist areas. It makes me think twice about visiting again.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're excluding cancer patients and children with difficult-to-treat epilepsy when you say things like that.

I didn't say it, but I'm certain she was referring only to regular recreational users and not people using for medical reasons. In states where it's now legal, there are a lot of heavy recreational users going around. And, I generally agree, from those I encounter regularly at work, they aren't people that have their lives together too well.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for comparing it to alcohol, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the effect of pot last a lot longer than the effect of a drink, i.e., you may smoke pot evenings & weekends and still experience the psychological effect at work?  This is what former users tell me, and I see from the above comments that this is commonly observed.  It's not like these folks are smoking weed on the job.  It's not like they get their drive back an hour after they finish their joint.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're excluding cancer patients and children with difficult-to-treat epilepsy when you say things like that.

 

My post is about recreational use. I have a child with difficult-to-treat epilepsy. That is my daily life. I hold no judgement against those who have found that they can control seizures with cannabidiol which may be effective for some with seizures. It is also the part of marijuana that is not psychoactive. I hold no judgement against cancer patients doing whatever they can to get through their trials. I live in a college town and my comments are directed more toward young people beginning their lives who may be making choices that will not lead to what I think is a successful life (good job, stable family life, contributing to society, etc.) I also clearly state this is my opinion; I know that others see this issue differently.

 

ETA: We've had medical marijuana legal here for a decade maybe, and medical marijuana storefronts in more recent years. We had 2 in town. Recreational marijuana became legal I think almost 2 years ago, and I was describing changes that that brought about. 2 storefronts mushroomed into 8-10, advertising is present all over town. No negative advertisement, no warnings like on cigarette ads. The radio spot talking about a beautiful weekend ahead, come get some weed to enhance the sunsets just bothers me. You need drugs to really appreciate our beautiful world??? It has created a different atmosphere than when we had just medical marijuana.

Edited by Ali in OR
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe that smoking pot is harmless in the same way that I don't believe that cigarettes and too much alcohol are harmless. People smoke it recreationally, and I don't judge that. I don't think it's responsible to drive while smoking pot.

 

I am a Christian, but I'm not even putting that into the equation in this post. I just don't feel it's a healthy thing to do. Period.

 

However....I think this is interesting to talk about:

 

Medical marijuana is a different thing and many people can be helped by it.  My own son has cyclic vomiting syndrome but is in remission right now. Medical marijuana has been shown to help a lot of people with this condition. Our state is not legal, but had he not gotten better, I would have done whatever I could to help him.

 

Ironically, chronic vomiting can also be CAUSED by too much pot smoking. This leads those in the medical field who are unfamiliar with non-marijuana induced cyclic vomiting syndrome (most doctors are not because true CVS is not common) to automatically assume that a person in the ER claiming to have cyclic vomiting syndrome is really someone whose vomiting is caused by smoking too much pot. (It CAN induce cyclic vomiting syndrome). It is hard for these people to sometimes get the treatment they need because of this confusion. My own son has not experienced this and has received proper treatment in the ER, thank goodness.  (I was there with him with lots of documentation, doctors phone numbers, and a full history).But this does happen. People with "true" CVS can be helped by medical marijuana in some cases. It can be difficult to get this diagnosed (true CVS).

 

Imagine the irony of a poor soul suffering with non-marijuana induced CVS trying to get help by using a little bit of pot or medical marijuana to get relief, only to be accused of being someone whose sickness is CAUSED by pot. This is a highly controversial topic.

 

And, of course, there are other situations like epilepsy, etc., where people's lives can be changed by medical marijuana. 

 

Edited to clarify.

Edited by Indigo Blue
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe a pregnant woman should be smoking anything. Period. Biologically I can't fathom it being good for the baby.

 

Medicinally I have no problem with pot.

 

Recreationally, I have no interest myself (nor for any other major drug other than caffeine). However, I know others differ in their choices/desires and I don't feel pot should be illegal any more than alcohol is. (Meaning age limits, DUI still being a thing, etc.) I'd have no desire to partake whether it's legal or not personally, but it would save a bit in law enforcement money plus bring in a bit in taxes to make it more like alcohol. If folks are going to get high anyway (and they are), so be it.

This summed up my thoughts on it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone, and especially thank you for the links/search terms.

 

I am undecided on recreational legalization, though I kinda feel like it's inevitable. I like to have more in my pocket in conversations than, "Well, this is what I think, but I can't tell you why." 😊

 

Which is why it's hard to talk to my friend. She's not using it for hyperemesis gravidarum, just normal morning sickness. Her doc is undecided here, but agrees with her that the stress of not smoking may be worse than the effects of smoking, and there's some research that the THC doesn't cross the placenta. I'm admittedly out of my depth there, so I avoid the topic. Hiwever, she keeps bringing it up, so I want to engage in an educated, as opposed to emotional, way.

 

Please, keep the conversation going! I'll check back in as I'm able.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't live in a state where it is legal, either recreationally or medically, so I may not be a good sample.

 

I think there are absolutely health benefits, and I have NO problem, whatsoever, for it being used for medical purposes.  I think sometimes in states where it is legal medically but not recreationally, the system is gamed.  Not crazy about that, but whatever.  I definitely want free access for medical benefits.  I am especially intrigued by the various strains that have lower THC but other compounds that help seizures or nausea or what not.

 

I think prohibition is something of a failed approach.  I'd like to see money and effort put into drug treatment rather than prosecution.  I would like to see it legal recreationally, taxed, but advertisements prohibited.  I also think a major problem is that while we have tests that can tell clearly if someone has recently been drinking (and how much) and so can tell if they are under the influence right now, we don't have tests that are that specific for pot, and so employers and law enforcement can't tell if someone is under the influence at the moment vrs. smoked last week.  That's a big problem for employers and law enforcement.  You don't want people coming to work or driving stoned.  So I think finding a test needs to be a priority. 

 

I don't think it's a good or healthy thing.  I hate the idea of children consuming it accidentally, so that should be done with care. (If there have to be pot laced gummy bears and the like, they should be clearly labeled and kept out of the reach of children and away from teens.)   I wouldn't have a problem with an adult using pot occasionally, I guess, the way a person might have a beer.  But regular use seems problematic to me, and I think it definitely has the potential to cause long term problems with addiction or loss of motivation.  My gut instinct is that smoking while pregnant is a terrible idea, but I can also think of circumstances in which it might be the least bad idea.  If Mom has severe hyperemesis and a small amount of pot is the only way she is able to maintain nutrition and hydration, then that might be the best choice, especially if she's using a low THC formula, small amounts, etc.  But I haven't done the research.  I wouldn't automatically condemn her; I took prescription medication while pregnant because the known risks of a mother suffering from the condition I have while pregnant is significant and they didn't know of harm to the baby from it.  I'd hope she has done research. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*PLEASE keep this respectful, folks. I don't wish for mud-slinging and locked threads. Citing sources is super helpful.*

 

I'm going to start this thread and run away (because my life is crazy at present, and I have to do adult stuff all this week instead of hanging out here like I'd vastly prefer), but I have been wondering about a couple of marijuana-related questions. I will be coming back to read replies as I can.

 

Marijuana is legal medicinally in my state, but there's a grassroots movement to legalize it recreationally. I want to be informed on this subject, but Googling gives me radically different opinions where I'm looking for facts, and my searching skills are not great for this kind of research. Anyone know where I can find some reputable information?

 

Also, what is your opinion on this issue, and why? (Again, please discuss respectfully. I really wanna know and explore this issue, as I've never really pondered the implications before, and you folks always get me thinking.)

 

Thirdly, (and maybe cause for its own thread), I have a newly pregnant friend who is smoking pot to control morning sickness/increase appetite, on the advice of her lifestyle guru/life coach, who is Jamaican and swears her family produces genius babies this way. I need to know how to talk to her about this, because at the moment I'm pretty speechless. Thoughts?

 

Edited to remove some personal info.

 

Here are some articles you may be interested in:

 

If you research enough, you can find any determination you desire regarding marijuana.  Like many things, I don't think anyone really knows definitively whether or not it is a gateway drug. Pro-marijuana people will find all kinds of statistics saying "no, it's not", anti-marijuana people will find statistics saying, "yes, it is".

 

All I can say is I've been on Grand Jury duty for our county (largest in ME) for the last year.  My last GJ is coming up this month and then I'm done. One thing I've noticed, is that 95% of the crime we have deliberated on originated due to drugs (including one of only two murders): meth and heroin most specifically. Even the domestic violence has had it's roots in drug use.  I can reliably state this because I've heard all the cases and this has been acknowledged by the DAs, DEA agents, detectives, and police officers.

 

Recreational marijuana has been legalized in our state within the last year.  While town officials are salivating over the potential revenues that may be derived from our primarily agricultural county, law enforcement officials are lamenting what they consider a disaster waiting to happen.  They are in the trenches and have seen, first-hand, what this means for them.  As they told us when the legislation was finally passed, "everyday, regular citizens don't see what marijuana can lead to and how much more potent marijuana is today compared to it's much more mild predecessor in the '60s and '70s. Manufacturers are lacing it with much more potent ingredients and fillers"

 

We had one case where a child was given candy (lollipop) laced with marijuana by a 16 YO teen.  The child ended up in the ER with severe seizures due to the strength/strain of the marijuana. The child was unaware that the lollipop had been doctored. 

 

While I'm not against medical marijuana, I'm really apprehensive about the merits of legalizing it's recreational use for very real reasons.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear the following two phrases often:

 

1. Pot is addictive even though people try to say it isn't.

2. Pot is a gateway drug.

 

I personally don't have a lot of experience with people who smoke pot but I am not sure the above two comments are actually true.  Can anyone help me with actual facts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eclectic thoughts:

-Driving impairment in states that opt to legalize concern me greatly.

-Adolescent brains (for some this probably extends up to age 23-25) are particularly vulnerable to drugs including THC and alcohol.

-THC can cause acute psychosis. This is more common when there is already a family history/genetic predisposition towards mental illness especially schizophrenia but can/has been seen in those without this history. Chronic THC use is associated with increased depression rates.

-We are seeing a lot more (or perhaps just diagnosing a lot more) Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome.

-The medical evidence for THC is not very compelling.

-Synthetic THC products like Spice can be deadly. I've "saved" a few lives after Spice misadventures but ultimately they survived with deficits (and colleagues across the country are reporting deaths).

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, in that govt report I just posted on the opioid thread, the Dutch govt has found that more highly educated people were more likely to have tried marijuana than less educated people. I'm not entirely sure what to make of that (I'm pretty sure that marijuana use does not lead to being more educated, so I don't think it's causality in that direction). 

 

Anyhow the govt subsidized institute for mental health and addiction (Trimbos), says that wrt pregnancy, the advice is "don't". They say it leads to kids being smaller and having a smaller head circumference, though they catch up in those before puberty. For kids, it however also leads to impulse control issues, anxiety issues, concentration issues, trouble with complicated tasks, etc. There are brain differences in adulthood, but it's unknown whether those cause problems: 

 

https://www.drugsinfo.nl/publiek/vruchtbaarheid-en-zwangerschap/risico-s-per-middel/cannabis-en-zwangerschap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any problem with adults using marijuana recreationally as long as they do it responsibly. Getting high and driving, for example, is obviously not responsible. And employers should definitely be able to set clear guidelines that prevent employees from coming into work stoned just as they would with employees coming to work drunk.

 

I wouldn't use it during pregnancy, either. As with most substances and how they affect pregnancy there aren't a lot of studies for ethical reasons, but imo, what we know so far from animal studies isn't promising. The studies on humans are difficult because women who tend to smoke pot during pregnancy also tend to smoke cigarettes, and obviously there's no way to know which adverse effects are from marijuana and which are from the cigarettes.

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X16300749

Agree.

 

I think this is the difference between adult use and teen use. Many adults can drink recreationally and not make poor decisions while others struggle with risk taking and impulse control. Much like alcohol, it is the chronic use that leads to life struggles. Far more teens fall into this camp than adults.

 

 

To speak to the previous comments from others talking about those who use being "lazy" vs not being lazy...like anything else these behaviors fall under a bell curve. For teens more teens than not would suffer from adverse life choices due to use. Kids just have a tougher time setting limits on themselves and do not have fully formed executive function capabilites. When teens fall into abuse their executive function suffers and it not only post pones the development of their brain but if they begin using before the pruning period in the teens they can crystallize themselves into never reaching full brain capacity with focus, organization of thought, impulsively struggles and the like. Have you ever met one of those adults who act 14? Ask them when they started using and you will probably hear 12, 13, 14 or 15. That period is a no go time for kids and drugs of any kind. What isn't discussed alot is the up regulation and down regulation of genes due to use. Alcohol, surprisingly enough, doesn't often result in turning on or off gene products for the most part. THC does.

 

Adults on the other hand are past their pruning period. They can learn to regulate recreational use in the same way they would alcohol. Plenty of people drink and work successfully without becoming lazy. Again though, considering the bell curve, while not all adults who use substances are demotivated and lazy, you will see a higher proportion of this occurring in those who use vs those who don't. This is a combination of predisposition and life choices. Some people have AD/HD for example that has gone undiagnosed. This group is susceptible to self medicating. They will appear to have more life struggles and it is probably due to the diagnosis not the use. Then there are those that are going through depression or other life events and use to self medicate that get into a vicious feed forward cycle which does lead to further depression and further poor life choices. Drug use often follows low SES and these people exhibit the symptom of demotivation more than the white collar professional who uses occasionally. This makes sense right? Harder life leads to a desire to escape some of that pain. Excessive use maintains the inability to extract from the life station...so on and so forth.

 

The thing is, some people can handle it and some cannot. The same as alcohol. I would never in a million years compare marijuana to cigarettes. No comparison. Cigarettes have no redeeming quality and wreck health aside from the small studies that show a reduction in alzheimers due to the nicotinic receptor activation. Hardly a reason to pick up smoking.

 

Marijuana has glorious medicinal effects and it would be absolutely negligent to not use them for this purpose. I still don't believe people need to put chemicals in their body for "fun". The fun is temporary and it rearranges receptors and neurotransmitters. It opens people up to potentially inducing other mental health struggles like inattention, impulsively, anxiety and depression. To me it isn't worth it.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of things:

 

1. THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) is what makes people "high" or mellow depending on personal response to the substance

2. CBD is a form derived from cannabis without the psychoactive ingredient and is being researched for application in a variety of illnesses

    https://draxe.com/cbd-benefits/

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317221.php

3. I have seen the effects of marijuana (this is the psychoactive drug including the THC) to negatively influence those centers in the brain (amygdala, basal ganglia, hippocampus, etc.) that usually help us set goals, make plans and take action. This is a very individual response but I have certainly observed it in enough individuals to see a pattern. There are of course also those who do not seem to present this way.

4. I have spoken with individuals who have started with marijuana and escalated to more destructive, potent drugs - but not all do.

 

I am sorry to sound so wishy washy but this is the picture I am seeing and most research shows above everything else the highly individual responses.

As far as your pregnant friend goes, I would not recommend smoking / ingesting any psychoactive substance. Pot is a central nervous system depressant and does effect the developing baby.

 

As the term "mind-altering" is often used and inevitably people point out that alcohol, nicotine and caffeine are also mind-altering, I just think we have to take a logical look at the varying degrees here and potential consequences.

 

If I drink coffee (and let's say more than 1 cup which has a negligible effect) I can still drive / operate a car / machinery. It is a mild stimulant and does not normally impair cognitive function.

 

If I smoke tobacco, I put my health at risk,  obviously my respiratory system and possibly other organs as well. It is mildly sedating, however, I can still function on average, i.e. driving / operating machinery, etc.

 

If I drink more than my liver can metabolize, my vision is distorted, my cognitive processes slowed and distorted. I should under no circumstances be driving or operating machinery. I am also putting my health at risk as alcohol does not only affect the brain in the described ways but is literally poisonous when consumed in large quantities over a period of time.

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of things:

 

1. THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) is what makes people "high" or mellow depending on personal response to the substance

2. CBD is a form derived from cannabis without the psychoactive ingredient and is being researched for application in a variety of illnesses

https://draxe.com/cbd-benefits/

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317221.php

3. I have seen the effects of marijuana (this is the psychoactive drug including the THC) to negatively influence those centers in the brain (amygdala, basal ganglia, hippocampus, etc.) that usually help us set goals, make plans and take action. This is a very individual response but I have certainly observed it in enough individuals to see a pattern. There are of course also those who do not seem to present this way.

4. I have spoken with individuals who have started with marijuana and escalated to more destructive, potent drugs - but not all do.

 

I am sorry to sound so wishy washy but this is the picture I am seeing and most research shows above everything else the highly individual responses.

1000 times this. We patch clamped primarily hippocampal neurons and the effect of THC on them was fascinating. When you record action potentials in a hippocampal neuron you get a beautiful long drop off curve which is the summation curve so that as it fires it summates and this is the recording of a memory. Add THC and that beautiful curve drops completely off. It is comical to see but sad too because it obliterates that memory formation. Adding THC and getting continual recordings for all points was tough because often the neuron would just die prematurely.

 

Doing the animal studies was also fascinating because mice would stop grooming, become irritable and being socially inept after continued use and an abrupt stop. Depending upon how long they had been on THC they may recover those skills but some did not based on age and use length.

 

ETA: https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/2016/08/study-questions-role-marijuana-in-teen-users-iq-decline

 

I think it is important though to keep in mind that memory, iirritability and the like is not tied to IQ and our genes are what sets the course along with our nurtured environment. Hence why it is not a chicken or the egg but a feed forward system.

Edited by nixpix5
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We patch clamped primarily hippocampal neurons and the effect of THC on them was fascinating. When you record action potentials in a hippocampal neuron you get a beautiful long drop off curve which is the summation curve so that as it fires it summates and this is the recording of a memory. Add THC and that beautiful curve drops completely off. It is comical to see but sad too because it obliterates that memory formation. Adding THC and getting continual recordings for all points was tough because often the neuron would just die prematurely.

 

Doing the animal studies was also fascinating because mice would stop grooming, become irritable and being socially inept after continued use and an abrupt stop. Depending upon how long they had been on THC they may recover those skills but some did not based on age and use length.

 

 

 

This is fascinating - to me anyway. Especially the experiment with the mice is interesting as I have seen a sharp drop in personal care routines as well in some clients.

 

I have heard about / read studies where neural connections (with people on certain drugs) were examined but find it interesting - and sad that some of the neurons die prematurely and therefore cannot recover even if the person stops using.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear the following two phrases often:

 

1. Pot is addictive even though people try to say it isn't.

2. Pot is a gateway drug.

 

I personally don't have a lot of experience with people who smoke pot but I am not sure the above two comments are actually true.  Can anyone help me with actual facts?

 

Research has no clear answers (yet) and may never have any because individual responses vary greatly.

 

For some people it is definitely the beginning of drug taking behavior. Nixpix explained all the extraneous factors that play a role, like self-medicating with ADHD / ADD or anxiety. People who like the effect of marijuana because they perceive it as lessening their symptoms are likely to repeatedly use and perhaps even escalate to other drugs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have really mixed feelings about it.  I don't like to see a lot of resources devoted to controlling it.  OTOH, I am not crazy about the government getting a lot of money out of it, either.

 

In terms of using it to achieve altered consciousness, I think it isn't that much better or worse than booze.  But - booze does not exist mainly for that purpose, and many people drink without any intent to alter consciousness.  The same can't be said of mj - it is entirely meant for getting high, unless it is to treat illness.  So I don't really see them as equal in that sense - the implication of rec use of mj is that it is fun and harmless to get high.  I'm not a big fan of it's fun to get drunk either.

 

Practically I have some concerns.  One is that now that it will soon be legal, I am finding the advertising and social message rather misleading - as someone mentioned above, it seems to be implied that it hasn't any significant medical downside. For whatever reason, although people may drink more socially, it seems like everyone understands the various risks, some serious, that can come with booze, but somehow the fact that it is newly legal means they think pot is not like that?   Perhaps that will change over time.  I worry about the mental health risks for teens.  And I have smelled pot while driving around town, from other cars, more in the past year than I ever have in my life before.  I found that rather shocking - I thought that surely people know that is impaired driving?

 

In terms of use medicinally - in theory I think it should be used as any other drugs.  In practice, there is so much pseudo-science with it. I know many doctors feel there is not very good information in order to actually prescribe safely.  And I think there is blatant abuse - a good friend of mine has a prescription for use for anxiety, which is nuts in terms of the science of it.

 

So - yeah, mixed feelings on my part all round.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medicinally I have no issue with pot. If it takes away someone's pain, controls seizures, helps with chemo I am all for it.

 

Recreational use, I have problems. I know a few people who smoke a lot of pot. They have decent jobs that they do well. None have any ambitions to move up in their respective fields, have no successful relationships, and are content where they are on life.

 

I do think it is addictive. True, you are not behaving like someone on meth but if you have to do it all the time because you like the way it feels then I think you have a problem.

 

I don't think pregnant women should be smoking pot. Your baby is smoking, too. I believe pot smoking during pregnancy has been linked (although not definitive)to low birth weight, small circumference head, premature birth, stillborn, and problems with brain development.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say they'd rather see someone smoke pot than drink, do they mean get tipsy or drunk?  Or actually just have a glass of wine or beer with a meal?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like it should be legal for certain reasons, but I really don't want to have to smell it. That means, if it was legal and my neighbors decided to smoke it outside, I would be irritated but there wouldn't be anything I could do about it. I do not like the smell and exposure can give me a headache (some people get a contact buzz). I used to hang out with pot heads and they smoked it inside and outside. Bong, joint, pipe

 

I think your friend should be more concerned with what her doctor (does she have an ob/gyn?) says than the life coach. I mean, just from the surface it doesn't sound like the life coach necessarily has any medical background. I might take certain medical advice to heart from a doula or midwife, but I don't know what a life coach knows about pregnancies.

 

My opinion is that it's dumb to lock people up for smoking weed. Unless someone did something that caused a problem (ie driving under the influence) I don't see how it really deserves jail time. I think it would be better for local businesses to sell marijuana and benefit from the tax dollars. I wouldn't worry about "blood on my hands" so to speak if I was a customer. I don't smoke, but just thinking about those who do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe a pregnant woman should be smoking anything.  Period.  Biologically I can't fathom it being good for the baby.

 

Medicinally I have no problem with pot.

 

Recreationally, I have no interest myself (nor for any other major drug other than caffeine).  However, I know others differ in their choices/desires and I don't feel pot should be illegal any more than alcohol is.  (Meaning age limits, DUI still being a thing, etc.)  I'd have no desire to partake whether it's legal or not personally, but it would save a bit in law enforcement money plus bring in a bit in taxes to make it more like alcohol.  If folks are going to get high anyway (and they are), so be it.

 

This is pretty much exactly my stance on it.  

 

I do know people who are occasional recreational users who have their lives very together, are ambitious, and work high level jobs.   I know a couple of people who are absolutely brilliant who think it helps them to concentrate, and it does seem to help them focus.   These people do seem to be the exception though, and they aren't sitting around smoking joint after joint, or bong after bong.  They may have a couple of hits at a time and that's it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post is about recreational use. I have a child with difficult-to-treat epilepsy. That is my daily life. I hold no judgement against those who have found that they can control seizures with cannabidiol which may be effective for some with seizures. It is also the part of marijuana that is not psychoactive. I hold no judgement against cancer patients doing whatever they can to get through their trials. I live in a college town and my comments are directed more toward young people beginning their lives who may be making choices that will not lead to what I think is a successful life (good job, stable family life, contributing to society, etc.) I also clearly state this is my opinion; I know that others see this issue differently.

 

ETA: We've had medical marijuana legal here for a decade maybe, and medical marijuana storefronts in more recent years. We had 2 in town. Recreational marijuana became legal I think almost 2 years ago, and I was describing changes that that brought about. 2 storefronts mushroomed into 8-10, advertising is present all over town. No negative advertisement, no warnings like on cigarette ads. The radio spot talking about a beautiful weekend ahead, come get some weed to enhance the sunsets just bothers me. You need drugs to really appreciate our beautiful world??? It has created a different atmosphere than when we had just medical marijuana.

Yeah, CBD oil is an entirely different can of worms from recreational smoking. I'm fine with the former and strongly against the latter. Legalizing pot in this state has not been a positive thing *at all*. From crime to accidents to people smelling badly ( yay pot stench) it's been bad news bears in Alaska.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I think, really, that adults have the right to do whatever they like with their own bodies, provided they are not harming other people. Marijuana is not as dangerous to yourself and others as some other drugs, though it isn't completely without risks.

 

2. I think it is extremely likely that marijuana during pregnancy will lead to "genius babies". Like, no.

 

3. Since that fetus will eventually be a little person, I would be careful about what drugs I used during pregnancy. However, I don't know enough about the risks of marijuana use during pregnancy to have an informed opinion. My guess is that the life coach is not actually any more informed than I am.

 

4. I do, however, think it's generally a bad idea to deliberately inhale smoke.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as pregnancy is concerned, I don't think smoking anything is a good idea. However, I have no clue about any studies etc. that might have been done and it might also depend on how bad the morning sickness is/what other options there are (i.e. if morning sickness is severe, maybe pot could be less problematic than other remedies).

 

If it is used as medicine, I don't see what the problem should be. Most medications aren't exactly healthy and plenty are addictive. So pot should be treated the same as everything else.

 

As for recreational use: I don't know what I think about it. Part of it is that I have never met/known anyone who does smoke pot (well, I am sure I have but noone that I know this about). So I can't speak from personal experience. I did grow up being told that it would be the beginning of the end, but apparently it is not as bad as that. Within reason, I don't care what other adults do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am personally against this, but in comparison to the gigantic problems with Opioids in the USA,   IMO POT is a trivial issue, compared to Opioids.  I have never even smoked a Cigarette, so I am a very Conservative person  and have never used drugs.  As for your friend who is Pregnant, I strongly suggest that you suggest to her that she discuss POT use with her OB-GYN.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone, and especially thank you for the links/search terms.

 

I am undecided on recreational legalization, though I kinda feel like it's inevitable. I like to have more in my pocket in conversations than, "Well, this is what I think, but I can't tell you why." 😊

 

Which is why it's hard to talk to my friend. She's not using it for hyperemesis gravidarum, just normal morning sickness. Her doc is undecided here, but agrees with her that the stress of not smoking may be worse than the effects of smoking, and there's some research that the THC doesn't cross the placenta. I'm admittedly out of my depth there, so I avoid the topic. Hiwever, she keeps bringing it up, so I want to engage in an educated, as opposed to emotional, way.

 

Please, keep the conversation going! I'll check back in as I'm able.

I do know there was an article in a magazine a pretty long while back (2004? 2005?) about marijuana during pregnancy for H.G. I think it was Mothering magazine. I mostly ignored the article at the time because I had been through stillbirth and that is supposedly one possible effect of marijuana use in pregnancy. Also, the same effects as smoking for low birthweight, higher incidence of asthma and allergies.

 

I cannot say I wouldn't be willing to try it for HG; it is clearly bad for the baby if mama is malnourished from vomiting constantly. But I definitely would not use it for no reason or because I was exepriencing ordinary morning sickness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say they'd rather see someone smoke pot than drink, do they mean get tipsy or drunk?  Or actually just have a glass of wine or beer with a meal?

 

Alcohol poisoning is a thing that people die from every year. (2,200 a year according to the CDC.)  I've never heard of a pot overdose. :)

 

ETA: More info regarding overdoses. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_us_56816417e4b06fa68880a217

Edited by Mimm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I think, really, that adults have the right to do whatever they like with their own bodies, provided they are not harming other people. Marijuana is not as dangerous to yourself and others as some other drugs, though it isn't completely without risks.

 

2. I think it is extremely likely that marijuana during pregnancy will lead to "genius babies". Like, no.

 

3. Since that fetus will eventually be a little person, I would be careful about what drugs I used during pregnancy. However, I don't know enough about the risks of marijuana use during pregnancy to have an informed opinion. My guess is that the life coach is not actually any more informed than I am.

 

4. I do, however, think it's generally a bad idea to deliberately inhale smoke.

I tend to agree with this but for me it doesn't always hold true. I can say that I didn't care if someone drinks 20 big gulp sodas per week or smokes a pack a day but the trickle down effect is poorer health, more Healthcare visits and higher insurance premium costs across the board for example. In my state it has equated to higher car insurance rates. So I wish one individual didn't effect everyone in the grand scheme of things but a large swath does. I am still fine with people making their choices but we all must be ok with shouldering the responsibility as a society.

 

As far as in utero...babies nervous systems are forming. Each and every chemical does and will effect the wiring of that fragile nervous system. An upregulation here, a down regulation there. We know very well how axon guiding works in utero. We also know very well that chemicals cause trajectory changes. The crazy thing about the brain is there is no way to see this in a baby. Sweet baby is born and looks 100% healthy and fine without any indication that the gene for serotonin might have been turned on to put a lifetime cap on it or to cap out receptor density. Then one day at puberty when hormones kick in and pruning begins suddenly depression is a factor. In science we know what it does but becasue we cannot do human studies invasively (thank goodness!) we can't show 100% proof. Much like evolution there are all of these puzzle pieces that you can pretty much same "yeah, this is a thing" but you don't have the missing pieces. Neurobiologists would say "yep, that is a terrible idea" and not do it themselves but cannot say "here is the absolute proof" but as a scientist would I do it? Hell no, not knowing what I know.

 

You have to remember that research often takes years to get published. We in science often know things 5+ years before the public ever does. Neuroscience moves at a very slow process because teasing out the factors involved is complicated. I will tell you all it is an epically terrible idea to smoke weed while pregnant. Just saying...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't support using it in pregnancy, although I don't really think any drugs are particularly safe during pregnancy. I'd say if someone had severe enough issues (such as the hyperemesis gravidarum) that they were gonna require drugs, and the pot could help them with that, that needs to be their decision.

 

Medically speaking, I think it can have a lot of benefits even when other medications do not.

 

Recreationally speaking I have no issues with adults smoking. I don't see any more issues with that than alcohol. Sure there are people who get addicted, just like some get addicted to alcohol, but I don't think one is necessarily MORE inclined to become addicted to marijuana.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For good information, pros and cons, read the book Buzzed: The Straight Facts About the Most Used and Abused Drugs from Alcohol to Ecstasy. It was written by three professors from Duke -- in phamaceutical, psychiatry and prevention science. All of my kids have a copy.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pregnant? Yah not a fan of smoking anything period. I think the guru is a dunce.

 

Medicinally I am fine and would favor expansion of conditions that qualify. I would also like to see more research into its properties.

 

Recreationally I think it should be like cold meds. Available at the pharmacy with ID to prove legal adult age, and a lecture from the pharmacy tech on possible drug interactions, impaired judgment, and such. Then said person signs that he or she has indeed received the education. Penalties for being caught driving while under the influence being on par with DUI, and frankly, I am all for stiffer penalties - like mining granite with a teaspoon in Siberia - for DUI.

 

Then I would want to see a crazy amount of tax placed on cannibis products, and all of that money put into inpatient rehab for drug addicts and some of it funneled to Detroit City schools so they can repair schools that look like London after the Blitz!!

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard the oil provides the health benefits without the high; I can support that.  I can't support getting high.  Legality doesn't affect my opinion of recreational usage.  But would legalizing really lower crime?  That might be the one compelling reason.

Edited by CES2005
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...