Quiver0f10 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 There are so many stories about how public schools are failing and I wondered why? What makes them fail? What is the measure used to decide what is failing or not? Then I got to thinking about my homeschool and my kids. How do I know I am not failing them? How do I know that we aren't just going through the motions and that they are really learning? What does real learning look like? Short of testing, which I don't think is an accurate assessment anyhow, how can I know that I am not failing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 My dh is/was a high school teacher in an inner city school. He would agree that public schools are failing and I'll have to ask him his thoughts and post later. I once read an article in an alternative education magazine that said public school are actually succeeding in doing what they were established to to...brainwash our children to think like they (the schools/govt) want them to think. Not sure how much I agree w/ this but it did cause me to think! There are so many variable, here, too. Anyway, I'll have to think about this some more but am interested in what others have to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 E. D. Hirsch's The Schools We Need contains a detailed answer to this question. I loved that book. It explained to me why I was so frustrated with the teacher education program I started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The short answer is that the public schools are failing because of society, the family, and the NEA. That's what I have seen from dh's experience, at least (he is a principal.) For my dc, I do use testing. It is an accurate assessment of basic skills. For everything else (thinking skills, content areas, etc.,) I make concrete goals each year and then teach to them. We continue until dc have achieved what I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy in Ky Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hmmm...based on what I have read about the history and purpose of public education, it isn't failing. It is, in fact, doing exactly what it was intended to do--namely, provide a population of labor for the industrial machine that is our society. The ideal labor force is one which is not highly educated, not independent thinkers, but in fact is trained to think as a mass in conformity, and think what the powers-that-be want them to think. :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 My boys are in advanced, honors or ap classes and well really don't have to do a whole lot. They are smart and pick up things fast so I think this may have something to do it. In regular classes pretty much you show up and show some initiative you will pass with a low C and graduate. It's pretty sad how little these kids have to do. My boys do like the hands on science and art classes and have had some really good teachers and we have not had problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hmmm...based on what I have read about the history and purpose of public education, it isn't failing. It is, in fact, doing exactly what it was intended to do--namely, provide a population of labor for the industrial machine that is our society. The ideal labor force is one which is not highly educated, not independent thinkers, but in fact is trained to think as a mass in conformity, and think what the powers-that-be want them to think. :eek: That's my understanding, too. It's working pretty well, isn't it? Why are they failing? 1) Unclear, undefined goals 2) Lack of agreement on goals between educators, bureaucrats and parents 3) Lack of discipline 4) Poor social attitudes toward schooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (or rather, almost every day!) I still wonder often, "Am I really doing enough? Or, am I driving my kids batty by expecting too much?" I still don't always have a good handle on challenging them as much as possible without making them hate what they're doing. Sometimes, when I read the posts discussing certain pros and cons of various curricula (especially ones that I'm using) that makes me feel even more insecure! However, every once in a while I catch a "glimpse" of where I'm at---sometimes it's a reality check, for instance, when I see for myself what the kids at various schools are doing. Other times, it's an instance where I see that my kids are doing really pretty well, overall, and then it encourages me. I think Tracy made a good point about the public schools doing a very good job of what they were designed to do. I haven't read the book yet, but her comments reminded me of what I once heard Andrew Pudewa (of IEW) when he spoke about the book A Thomas Jefferson Education (if I've gotten the title right). Basically, I think one of the premises of that book was that very same point. Leadership education requires more. I think my first year of homeschooling I had the most questions and concerns about how my kids were doing, but there were a couple of instances that happened that year that I felt like God showed me we were on the right track. The main one was when my second grader made a huge leap in her reading ability. That really encouraged me! So, sometimes it helps when we think back on those times of encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I love this book, as well! Regena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hmmm...based on what I have read about the history and purpose of public education, it isn't failing. It is, in fact, doing exactly what it was intended to do--namely, provide a population of labor for the industrial machine that is our society. The ideal labor force is one which is not highly educated, not independent thinkers, but in fact is trained to think as a mass in conformity, and think what the powers-that-be want them to think. :eek: Exactly my thoughts, Tracy. I would add that I do believe our public schools are based on the same industrial model as factory farming. When raising a hog to market, no matter the individual hogs' quirks or needs, a single model is applied evenly for all. If one or two hogs need tetracycline, then they all get it (through the water system). Space allotment is even for each hog no matter how big or small they may actually be. Every hog gets the same treatment in order to produce uniform meat to fat ratio, even growth to market rate and the largest possible profit margin. We do the same thing with our kids in public schools. There is one method that is applied across the curriculum for all children regardless of the individual quirks of any of them. Class sizes are dictated regardless of the actual needs of the children in them. Every child gets the same treatment in order to produce uniform competency levels, even skill sets for the labour market and the largest possible graduation rate. There is a single inherent problem in this model. Hogs are not machines. Very, very few of them will fit the "ideal" outcome framework. Believe it or not, hogs have minds of their own. Oh, and apparently, some radical weirdos believe children do, too. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thanks for the replies. I do know my kids are better at home and I have no intentions of stopping homeschooling, I just want to make sure I am giving them the best education that I can. You'd think by now I would stop second guessing myself every step of the way :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 From a teaching perspective, I think the problems stem from the bureaucracy. It was actually my experiences during my student teaching semester that made me make the firm decision that my children would never attend public school. There were teachers that simply did not teach but were tenored and nothing was ever said. There were teachers that were petty if your class was perceived as being too "active." (as in hands on learning vs ditto sheets.) Teaching to the middle is the main objective, so kids on either end of the curve are "neglected." But mainly, teaching is not just about teaching kids. The teaching "culture" is what turned me off the school system. I LOVE teaching. I hated the bureaucracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancypants Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thanks for the replies. I do know my kids are better at home and I have no intentions of stopping homeschooling, I just want to make sure I am giving them the best education that I can. You'd think by now I would stop second guessing myself every step of the way :o How 'bout this... just don't use the words "second guessing"... use instead the word "reexamining." It's good to reexamine the why and how of what we do. This keeps us reforming, refining and refreshing our outlook and our approach. That is usually a good thing. If we didn't stop and reevaluate, and yes sometimes even reconfigure, now and then I'm sure we would all be doing a disservice to our children. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLHCO Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Tee-hee. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamagistra Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hmmm...based on what I have read about the history and purpose of public education, it isn't failing. It is, in fact, doing exactly what it was intended to do--namely, provide a population of labor for the industrial machine that is our society. The ideal labor force is one which is not highly educated, not independent thinkers, but in fact is trained to think as a mass in conformity, and think what the powers-that-be want them to think. :eek: What she said. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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