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Judgment-free alternatives to "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding?"


Mergath
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You are welcome to PM me anytime, and I will attempt to trouble shoot via PM or text if you'd like.  I'm not a lactation consultant, just a mom who spent almost fifteen years breastfeeding.

 

Also, if you want to let me know more specifically where you are, many of the women on my preeclampsia survivor list have had preemies, so they know about breastfeeding troubles.  Someone near you may know of a good lactation consultant, and I'd be happy to inquire.

 

And I gave you five stars!

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I think it's very few women that do, who are probably jerks about other stuff too. But there are lots of women/doctors/etc that discuss the benefits of breastfeeding as a matter of public health, on a population level. I think that can be done without shaming or judging on an individual level.

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Yeah, I have no problem discussing the benefits of breastfeeding. I mean, I'm going to try to do it for a reason. ;)

 

This book was so over the top, though. There was even a little section that explained how bfing should be the standard, so instead of talking about the benefits of bfing, we should always frame our discussion around the harm that formula feeding does to babies. Like, you shouldn't say that breastfed babies have a higher IQ, but that formula feeding causes an IQ deficit in healthy babies. *rage*

 

What a crock.

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I dunno, it's like homeschooling, or anything really. You kinda have to drink the kool-aid a little bit to gather enough determination to stick out the rough patches, and with breastfeeding the toughest part is often the first month when you're exhausted and in recovery. I wouldn't worry about politics at that point. I say choose your goal now before you're tired and line up whatever support gets you there. You not attending a LLL meeting or reading a book on principle won't impact them at all, but you could learn something useful for you.

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I dunno, it's like homeschooling, or anything really. You kinda have to drink the kool-aid a little bit to gather enough determination to stick out the rough patches, and with breastfeeding the toughest part is often the first month when you're exhausted and in recovery. I wouldn't worry about politics at that point. I say choose your goal now before you're tired and line up whatever support gets you there. You not attending a LLL meeting or reading a book on principle won't impact them at all, but you could learn something useful for you.

I think it would be easier if I hadn't had to formula feed my first dd. But it's hard when a book is talking about all the immense harm you supposedly did to your first child. I just don't need that at the moment, especially when I have medical issues (like messed up hormones) that might make it difficult to bf this new baby. I really need my resources to be at least marginally positive and accepting right now.

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Yeah, I have no problem discussing the benefits of breastfeeding. I mean, I'm going to try to do it for a reason. ;)

 

This book was so over the top, though. There was even a little section that explained how bfing should be the standard, so instead of talking about the benefits of bfing, we should always frame our discussion around the harm that formula feeding does to babies. Like, you shouldn't say that breastfed babies have a higher IQ, but that formula feeding causes an IQ deficit in healthy babies. *rage*

 

What a crock.

I wonder if formula counts on the "do you do drugs" thread?

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You are welcome to PM me anytime, and I will attempt to trouble shoot via PM or text if you'd like. I'm not a lactation consultant, just a mom who spent almost fifteen years breastfeeding.

 

Also, if you want to let me know more specifically where you are, many of the women on my preeclampsia survivor list have had preemies, so they know about breastfeeding troubles. Someone near you may know of a good lactation consultant, and I'd be happy to inquire.

 

And I gave you five stars!

Thank You! I might just take you up on that. ;)

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Yeah, I have no problem discussing the benefits of breastfeeding. I mean, I'm going to try to do it for a reason. ;)

 

This book was so over the top, though. There was even a little section that explained how bfing should be the standard, so instead of talking about the benefits of bfing, we should always frame our discussion around the harm that formula feeding does to babies. Like, you shouldn't say that breastfed babies have a higher IQ, but that formula feeding causes an IQ deficit in healthy babies. *rage*

 

What a crock.

Actually, this is how medical research should refer to breastfeeding. It is the biological norm. Using formula instead should be considered an intervention when researching the affects of different types of feeding. It's not about vilifying formula use or mothers who don't breastfeed, it's about using the scientifically correct language when comparing the biological norm to the replacement.

 

And I think it should be recognized that the original Womanly Art of Breastfeeding was written by a group of mothers who were fighting against their own doctors and the societal norm at the time to even be allowed to breastfeed their babies. So many women were given drugs to dry up their milk without consent during that era. It can be hard for a nearly entirely volunteer organization to go up against the billion dollar formula industry. They may be overzealous at times, but it's coming from a place of wanting to help mothers and babies, not make money off of you.

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I think it would be easier if I hadn't had to formula feed my first dd. But it's hard when a book is talking about all the immense harm you supposedly did to your first child. I just don't need that at the moment, especially when I have medical issues (like messed up hormones) that might make it difficult to bf this new baby. I really need my resources to be at least marginally positive and accepting right now.

That makes sense. You don't want to read anything de motivational right now. You can only do what is safe for your baby. Sometimes knowing you tried everything is comforting. You give it your best shot.. It works or it doesn't, but you need information to give it your best shot. If you keep one chapter and toss the rest, it might've been worth the read. Are they still updating the same book? That thing's been around forever and was originally going up against a very anti-breastfeeding America. They HAD to be a bit aggressive to make any headway. Even if they updated it, it sounds like they didn't tone down the rhetoric for the times.

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Actually, this is how medical research should refer to breastfeeding. It is the biological norm. Using formula instead should be considered an intervention when researching the affects of different types of feeding. It's not about vilifying formula use or mothers who don't breastfeed, it's about using the scientifically correct language when comparing the biological norm to the replacement.

 

And I think it should be recognized that the original Womanly Art of Breastfeeding was written by a group of mothers who were fighting against their own doctors and the societal norm at the time to even be allowed to breastfeed their babies. So many women were given drugs to dry up their milk without consent during that era. It can be hard for a nearly entirely volunteer organization to go up against the billion dollar formula industry. They may be overzealous at times, but it's coming from a place of wanting to help mothers and babies, not make money off of you.

And for peer-reviewed studies on the benefits of different kinds of feeding, I'd expect that. But there's no reason to use such hurtful language in a book for mothers on breastfeeding. You can be enthusiastic about breastfeeding without shaming the women who can't.

 

And believe me, they definitely aren't concerned with scientific accuracy. Many of the claims in the book have no science backing them up and seem to have been pulled out of thin air, despite the fact that this was the 2010 edition.

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That makes sense. You don't want to read anything de motivational right now. You can only do what is safe for your baby. Sometimes knowing you tried everything is comforting. You give it your best shot.. It works or it doesn't, but you need information to give it your best shot. If you keep one chapter and toss the rest, it might've been worth the read. Are they still updating the same book? That thing's been around forever and was originally going up against a very anti-breastfeeding America. They HAD to be a bit aggressive to make any headway. Even if they updated it, it sounds like they didn't tone down the rhetoric for the times.

 

It's been updated something like ten times, so I don't know how much of the original book remains. It reads very modern though, so I'm guessing not much. The edition I had was the 2010 edition.

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Thankfully, for a variety of reasons, the medical community in many places is swapping from "breast is best" to "fed is best." It gets moms out from under the burden of only breast thinking.

 

Yeah, yeah we know the benefits. And most moms if they could, would BF, but sometimes it doesn't pan out.

 

With DD, child four, I went one week BFing. The three others had been from 7-9 months. My "circle" is highly pro BFing. But DD had a rare thing called breast milk induced jaundice. Something in my milk was blocking her body from breaking down bilirubin and she was becoming toxic...like near hospitalization levels of toxicity. It was only caught bc a pediatrician decided to run just an extra blood test on DD. We ended up doing two days of at home phototherapy with a UV blanket.

 

That Sunday, went to church and a lady goes, "and you're breast feeding, of course???" Ugh.

 

You do what you can and what your body/emotions permits. Then you focus on just making your baby plump and healthy in other perfectly fine ways.

 

Don't get discouraged!

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Yeah, yeah we know the benefits. And most moms if they could, would BF, but sometimes it doesn't pan out.

 

This actually isn't true. Most moms who FF have no medical reason why they can't/shouldn't BF- they simply choose not to. I was shocked by how common this was among my fellow Army wives when oldest DD was born because it was so totally opposite of the upper-middle-class mothering norms that I had grown up around and have since returned to.

 

It's something like only about 2/3 of U.S. moms do ANY breastfeeding whatsoever.

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Are you a part of a local hs group that has any mothers that have 6+ children? I've nursed 6 of my 7 and feel a bit like a pro but I've also had my struggles along the way. There's something to be said for having all that first hand experience, rather than just book knowledge when it comes to helping someone bf. It always ticks me off when someone says, "if breastfeeding hurts then you're doing something wrong." REALLY?! How many babies did this lady actually nurse? Unless you tandem feed through your pregnancy the new baby always hurts for the first few weeks. As an extra benefit you would know a little about the person before you ask for their help.

 

Also, now this may sound strange but I've come to think that if we had bf'ing friends that we could turn to when things got difficult then maybe we could get through some of these struggles more easily. What I think would be nice is if we had friends that we trusted who could give our babies a few feedings from a well established supply and an experienced hand. The baby would get milk, settle down and have a chance to learn the ropes from someone that knows what they're doing. Just a couple feedings a day would probably go a long way. This is done all over the world but for some reason it's creepy here. Most people don't know someone that would be willing to do this but I can imagine, right?

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This actually isn't true. Most moms who FF have no medical reason why they can't/shouldn't BF- they simply choose not to. I was shocked by how common this was among my fellow Army wives when oldest DD was born because it was so totally opposite of the upper-middle-class mothering norms that I had grown up around and have since returned to.

 

It's something like only about 2/3 of U.S. moms do ANY breastfeeding whatsoever.

You don't really know that, though. I FF both of mine. On the rare occasion that this comes up IRL, I say I chose not to. It's easier than explaining my actual reasons which are, imho, no business of anyone else.

 

I hear women making "excuses" for why they ff whenever this discussion comes up. People shouldnt have to divulge their medical history to be accepted in their peer groups. That, to me, says this conversation needs to change.

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Mergath,

 

I don't know what your past difficulty with breastfeeding was, but, I just want to mention that many women with PCOS have low milk supply. If that was an issue, I recommend a book called Making More Milk: https://www.amazon.com/Breastfeeding-Mothers-Guide-Making-More/dp/007159857X

 

If milk supply was an issue, I would also encourage you to check out the IGT and Low Milk Supply Facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/IGTSG/

Many women with PCOS also have insufficient glandular tissue, which was my issue. Even on meds with lactation consultant support, and pumping after feeding with a hospital grade pump, I never had more than a 50% supply. 

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This actually isn't true. Most moms who FF have no medical reason why they can't/shouldn't BF- they simply choose not to. I was shocked by how common this was among my fellow Army wives when oldest DD was born because it was so totally opposite of the upper-middle-class mothering norms that I had grown up around and have since returned to.

 

It's something like only about 2/3 of U.S. moms do ANY breastfeeding whatsoever.

I guess what I'm about to say will shock you and some readers here. I hated BFing and I have my reasons for why, which are private. But I did it anyways and for the first two months of it I dreaded feeding my babies. But I did push through, out of expectations set by others. I was glad for the day the kids were weaned.

 

Statements like "I was shocked," come with a slight, or for some readers, immense, judgement statement. It is a totally subjective reaction to someone else's position.

 

Also, because of the "breast is best" mantra, moms are literally afraid to FF. Babies have died due to dehydration. Moms refuse to FF, because they are scared they will harm their kid. When in fact they are starving their child. It's sad that this imbalanced approach to BFing, which ironically is supposed to be healthy 100% of the time really isn't 100% of the time.

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If there are any free standing birth center near you I'd call them and ask them if they have a LC on staff. Our birth center has the absolute best LC I've ever met. She gets shit from other LC in the area because she is probably "feed your baby" not necessarily pro breastfeeding. She helps those who want it and knows what she's doing but she doesn't push breastfeeding.

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I guess what I'm about to say will shock you and some readers here. I hated BFing and I have my reasons for why, which are private. But I did it anyways and for the first two months of it I dreaded feeding my babies. But I did push through, out of expectations set by others. I was glad for the day the kids were weaned.

I hate breastfeeding as well. I don't get any sort of enjoyment out of it like many women seem to. And sometimes it makes me freaking annoyed. I only do it because it is free and it is what's best for my babies. Come 12 months old they are quickly weaned basically cold turkey.

 

I never felt any pressure to breastfeed which was nice.

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If you have a LLL group or groups near you I'd check them out. I had a horrible time with my first. We bf'd for 2 months, and I had to stop. My last thread of sanity was about to snap.

 

With the other 2 I found a LLL group. They are all different so you would need to ask some questions about philosophy.

 

This group was my life saver. Even the women who stopped bf'ing came back to meetings because this group of women were so kind and supportive.

 

I know how hard it is to have a rough bf'ing relationship. Like someone else said, I really didn't enjoy it. Even when it was working it wasn't something that made me euphoric. My anxiety ramped up every time.

 

Good luck, it's hard when most of the literature out there doesn't talk about the less than ideal experiences.

 

Kelly

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I've been thinking about looking into it, but I had a horrible experience with older dd the first time. The hospital's lactation consultant stopped by when I was still in the hospital with dd nine years ago, got pissed because dd was too weak to latch on, grabbed her tiny head and slammed her face repeatedly into my boob. :cursing:  Then she told me that if dd kept falling asleep when I was trying to breastfeed her (she was three weeks early and had low blood sugar, and trying to keep her awake for more than a few minutes was almost impossible) to keep pinching her because the pain would wake her up. 

 

 

I just had a baby 2 years ago.  I was having preeclampsia problems at the end.  He was doing the same thing.  He was too weak to nurse - he would just pass out during nursing.  They told me in the hospital to unbutton his onesie, take off the blanket and rub his chest and face.  That seemed to help, but yeah, it was very scary.  After a few days, he stopped doing that.  Not sure if that was encouraging - in case you're worried about that happening this time, too.  

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Since it's been nine years since I even attempted to breastfeed, I figured I could use a refresher course and randomly picked an ebook on the subject which turned out to be "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding."

 

If it was a paper copy instead of an ebook, I would have lit it on fire, run it through a wood chipper, and used the remaining pieces in the cats' litter boxes. :lol:  It really should have been called, "The Womanly Art of Mommy-Shaming."

 

Does anyone know of a fact-based, pseudoscience and judgment-free alternative that won't make me want to formula-feed out of pure spite? Seriously, this book made me want to donate money to Similac just to give the finger to LLL. No, my older daughter is not an emotionally-stunted diabetic with an "IQ deficit" because she had to have formula. FFS. :001_rolleyes:

 

Bonus points if your suggestion includes recipes for things like lactation cookies. Or lactation brownies. Pretty much any kind of lactation dessert.

 

:iagree:

It has been 20 years now for me.  If that is the book I am thinking of, I trashed it after the words "artificial food" were used instead of the word "formula."  

 

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I hate breastfeeding as well. I don't get any sort of enjoyment out of it like many women seem to. And sometimes it makes me freaking annoyed. I only do it because it is free and it is what's best for my babies. Come 12 months old they are quickly weaned basically cold turkey.

 

I never felt any pressure to breastfeed which was nice.

I felt the same way. Just like diapers and cleaning spit up it had to be done.

 

I mean there is a level of pleasure of just providing for your child's needs.

But it wasn't a wonderful mystical precious thing. I got the same pleasure of caring for my child with my oldest who was mostly on formula.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just five starred the thread.

 

I big puffy heart love formula. It made my baby plump and happy. And, surprisingly enough, she is still a loving, sensitive, intelligent child. Imagine that.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Anyone who has a problem with women who choose not to or can't breastfeed for whatever reason can go jump in a lake.  :)

 

I five starred it too. 

 

I'm another mom who tried and tried and tried to breast feed and couldn't. I would pump for an hour and have about 3 drops of milk come out. I cried in the lactation consultant's office many times. Then, I beat myself up when I needed to switch DS to formula and dealt with lots of judgment locally for it. 

 

But, DS thrived on formula. DH loved that he could help with the feedings and he feels like it helped him bond with DS in those early days. He's a healthy, lovely, bright kid and I'm so glad that the option for formula was available for us. 

 

:grouphug:

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I had a terrible LC in the hospital with my first who made the first 6 weeks of breastfeeding a complete nightmare.  I cried in pain every time I nursed.  I hoped for the baby to sleep a little longer every time because that put off the time of pain.  I loathed anyone who woke her up, ever.

 

We were super broke, and I didn't have health insurance (my mom's covered the pregnancy and birth, but as soon as the baby was born and I was out of the hospital, I was uninsured).  One of DH's extended family sent us $50 in the mail as a present for the baby.  It was the only $50 we had. :)  I called a local women's clinic and a visit with their LC was $49; I spent it.  Best $49 I ever spent.  It took her like 30 seconds to realize what I was doing wrong; she showed me how to fix it; the pain was gone.

 

All that to say, do not listen to the lady in the hospital.  Probably it will be fine; if it is not, call an actual LC.

 

I hate nursing too - I get let-down dysphoria, so when my milk lets down, I feel an overwhelming sense of doom and sorrow.  It sucks.  I nursed my first 2 babies for 4 months each; I was relieved to give up and go to formula.  Once I learned what the let-down dysphoria was, it was easier to deal with (as I knew it was just chemical) and I could nurse longer.

 

 

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Are you a part of a local hs group that has any mothers that have 6+ children? I've nursed 6 of my 7 and feel a bit like a pro but I've also had my struggles along the way. There's something to be said for having all that first hand experience, rather than just book knowledge when it comes to helping someone bf. It always ticks me off when someone says, "if breastfeeding hurts then you're doing something wrong." REALLY?! How many babies did this lady actually nurse? Unless you tandem feed through your pregnancy the new baby always hurts for the first few weeks. As an extra benefit you would know a little about the person before you ask for their help.

 

Also, now this may sound strange but I've come to think that if we had bf'ing friends that we could turn to when things got difficult then maybe we could get through some of these struggles more easily. What I think would be nice is if we had friends that we trusted who could give our babies a few feedings from a well established supply and an experienced hand. The baby would get milk, settle down and have a chance to learn the ropes from someone that knows what they're doing. Just a couple feedings a day would probably go a long way. This is done all over the world but for some reason it's creepy here. Most people don't know someone that would be willing to do this but I can imagine, right?

 

I wish I did, but all the homeschooling moms I know around here only have one, maybe two kids, and they're all at least preschool or older.  I would totally be willing to do something like what you described if I knew someone who fit that description, though. I wouldn't be fussy about someone else feeding my baby.

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Mergath,

 

I don't know what your past difficulty with breastfeeding was, but, I just want to mention that many women with PCOS have low milk supply. If that was an issue, I recommend a book called Making More Milk: https://www.amazon.com/Breastfeeding-Mothers-Guide-Making-More/dp/007159857X

 

If milk supply was an issue, I would also encourage you to check out the IGT and Low Milk Supply Facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/IGTSG/

Many women with PCOS also have insufficient glandular tissue, which was my issue. Even on meds with lactation consultant support, and pumping after feeding with a hospital grade pump, I never had more than a 50% supply. 

 

It wasn't an issue with older dd. (Pretty much the only thing that wasn't an issue, lol.) With her, she was born three weeks early because I had preeclampsia, and she had low muscle tone because of a genetic disorder that, at the time, we had no idea she had. She also had a moderate tongue-tie that, somehow, no one caught until she was a toddler. So she was just too weak to latch on properly, and she kept falling asleep. The nurses were giving her bottles of formula every time they took her to the nursery within the first few hours without our consent which probably didn't help, even though I started pumping and was making enough colostrum and kept telling them I wanted to use that. It was a mess. When we finally got home, I pumped for a few weeks, but then ended up with horrible PPD and had to be put on meds that were excreted into my breastmilk and would have made dd even more drowsy and out of it, so I decided to switch to formula.

 

My PCOS has been getting worse over the years though, and my hormones more messed up, so I'm worried that might cause problems this time when I try to bf. Thank you for the resources!

 

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:iagree:

It has been 20 years now for me.  If that is the book I am thinking of, I trashed it after the words "artificial food" were used instead of the word "formula."  

 

 

I remember that in my copy. The first or second page said something about how we should refer to it as "artificial infant feeding," or some nonsense. Apparently some of us have baby androids? I don't know. That should have been my clue to stop reading too, but apparently I'm slow. ;)

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I guess what I'm about to say will shock you and some readers here. I hated BFing and I have my reasons for why, which are private. But I did it anyways and for the first two months of it I dreaded feeding my babies. But I did push through, out of expectations set by others. I was glad for the day the kids were weaned.

 

Statements like "I was shocked," come with a slight, or for some readers, immense, judgement statement. It is a totally subjective reaction to someone else's position.

 

Also, because of the "breast is best" mantra, moms are literally afraid to FF. Babies have died due to dehydration. Moms refuse to FF, because they are scared they will harm their kid. When in fact they are starving their child. It's sad that this imbalanced approach to BFing, which ironically is supposed to be healthy 100% of the time really isn't 100% of the time.

 

Yup. I've seen people say in a online parenting groups that bfing *always* works if you don't give yourself any other option.

 

Yeah, or you end up with a dead baby. I wish people would think before they say stupid stuff. :glare:

 

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https://www.amazon.com/Jessica-Babies-Breastfeeding-FAQ-ebook/dp/B005DMMDE6/

 

Not necessarily the One True Resource, but inexpensive, quick, and written by a CLEC who has both breast and formula-fed.

 

It always ticks me off when someone says, "if breastfeeding hurts then you're doing something wrong." REALLY?! 

 

Me too.

 

Hormonal changes can cause nipple soreness. Lots of women experience this during pregnancy, ovulation, or menstruation. I seem to get it postpartum. There's no signs of actual problem like bad latch or thrush, and it goes away on its own within a few weeks. With my first, I thought something was wrong because I kept hearing that, so I kept looking for a problem. If someone had just said, "Yeah, sometimes it just hurts." it would have been a lot less stressful.

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Well, I've been researching this morning on what's available in my area and there's not much. The hospital and Public Health each have a nurse with "additional lactation training," which sounds like the horrible woman I had to deal with in the hospital before who didn't really know anything. No certified LCs, no birthing centers or anything like that. There's a LLL group that meets once a month, so it looks like that's going to have to have to be who I call if I need help unless I want to drive an hour to the nearest bigger city. Which I might do, if I get desperate enough.

 

Thank you so much for the resources! I have a lot to read now during the next month. :)

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It wasn't an issue with older dd. (Pretty much the only thing that wasn't an issue, lol.) With her, she was born three weeks early because I had preeclampsia, and she had low muscle tone because of a genetic disorder that, at the time, we had no idea she had. She also had a moderate tongue-tie that, somehow, no one caught until she was a toddler. So she was just too weak to latch on properly, and she kept falling asleep. The nurses were giving her bottles of formula every time they took her to the nursery within the first few hours without our consent which probably didn't help, even though I started pumping and was making enough colostrum and kept telling them I wanted to use that. It was a mess. When we finally got home, I pumped for a few weeks, but then ended up with horrible PPD and had to be put on meds that were excreted into my breastmilk and would have made dd even more drowsy and out of it, so I decided to switch to formula.

 

My PCOS has been getting worse over the years though, and my hormones more messed up, so I'm worried that might cause problems this time when I try to bf. Thank you for the resources!

 

That's not fair at all. You were sabotaged on multiple fronts. You try, you hit obstacles, you do hat you can to get around them. Some obstacles are big enough that you need to change course entirely. You shouldn't remotely feel bad about it and anyone who gives you crap is probably just rude and hard wired to be critical of LOTS of things.

 

I'd encourage you to find a local LLL meeting even though the book irks you. Try 2-3 different ones. They're like any group thing. They'll all feel different, but when you find a good fit for YOU, you'll know. The first group I tried annoyed the hell out of me. The second group was the one I really clicked with. They were just more my style and humor and I made some long-time friendships that extended beyond breastfeeding. Rumor has it that the evening meetings with the working moms are much more relaxed about when to start formula.

 

You may never WANT to go, but I'm encouraging it for several reasons. 1. They likely have a lending library that is far more extensive than your local library and has a book you like much better. (This is where I found my first homeschooling books.) 2. It's nice to have several moms in the same stage as you with babies a similar age. If you get even one mommy-baby friendship out of the deal it's worth it. I think it's healthy to expand your normal circle of friends now and again. 3. You're more likely to call their hotline when you need help if you've touched base with the group. And 4, it's FREE and money can be scarce when you have a new baby. You can save your LC dollars for trickier problems.

 

Of course, "I just don't wanna" is a legitimate reason to not do LOTS of things and nobody should be challenging you about your personal decisions unless YOU have invited that type of conversation.

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Do you know why the nursing failed? Because sometimes, our bodies just cannot do something. If you know the cause of it not working out, then we could work with that.

 

I will tell you what I know to be the most common problems that are easily fixed. Inverted nipples are tough to fix, but that is one of the more common problems. I have not dealt with that, but I do think there are shields or something that can be used.

 

Supply...one of the biggies I see is hospitals trying to convince the mommies to write down every feeding, which side, duration, etc. Just do not do that. AND, baby should lose a little bit in the first week or so. Do not supplement. Supplementing is one of the biggest barriers in getting the milk to really come in. I did that. I had complications after the first of one of my children so the hospital had to give him formula. When he was 3 weeks old, he was still taking formula sometimes and my milk was hardly coming in. Finally, I stopped with the formula and dealt with him just crying while we sorted the milk coming in. It took about three days and my milk came in. HOWEVER, do not let the weight loss go beyond a certain amount. I am unsure of that amount, but it might be three days. IF you have no complications and you just had the baby, give it about 5 days before you worry. Do not let the nurses bully you in to giving the baby a bottle.

 

AND, if, in the end, you end up doing formula, don't sweat it. I know you feel like you have missed out on something. But, mourn your loss, but feel no guilt. Nothing wrong with going the formula route. Try joining Le Leche League. The leaders there go through a lot of training and can often help a lot.

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I five starred it too.

 

I'm another mom who tried and tried and tried to breast feed and couldn't. I would pump for an hour and have about 3 drops of milk come out. I cried in the lactation consultant's office many times. Then, I beat myself up when I needed to switch DS to formula and dealt with lots of judgment locally for it.

 

But, DS thrived on formula. DH loved that he could help with the feedings and he feels like it helped him bond with DS in those early days. He's a healthy, lovely, bright kid and I'm so glad that the option for formula was available for us.

 

:grouphug:

Yep to all of that, including DH's feelings. I dealt with the drugs, tears, pain, waking DS up at night, hospital grade pump, the only-birthweight-at-six-weeks. I was committed, but it didn't work.

 

The other two nursed and thrived with no outside help whatsoever. (And wouldn't take bottles even when I asked LOL.) You can have the opposite experience the second time around. <hug>

 

I suspect today DS has an upper lip tie. A good LC could have known to look and found it back when I was clueless.

Edited by SamanthaCarter
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You don't really know that, though. I FF both of mine. On the rare occasion that this comes up IRL, I say I chose not to. It's easier than explaining my actual reasons which are, imho, no business of anyone else.

 

I hear women making "excuses" for why they ff whenever this discussion comes up. People shouldnt have to divulge their medical history to be accepted in their peer groups. That, to me, says this conversation needs to change.

 

I think she's right, though.  I found when I lived in a different town, there was a huge difference in the attitude to BF.  Most women didn't ever intend to nurse, or only for a short time. 

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Yes, go ahead and one star me all you want, ladies. I'm sure some of you who had zero trouble breastfeeding adore this book. :001_rolleyes:

 

The mentality behind one starring this thread is the kind that often ruins the breastfeeding experience for many women: mommy-shaming and holier-than-thou.  I am glad to see that gentler souls rectified the situation.  ETA: Of course, we have all goofed up when starring too.

 

I've been thinking about looking into it, but I had a horrible experience with older dd the first time. The hospital's lactation consultant stopped by when I was still in the hospital with dd nine years ago, got pissed because dd was too weak to latch on, grabbed her tiny head and slammed her face repeatedly into my boob. :cursing:  Then she told me that if dd kept falling asleep when I was trying to breastfeed her (she was three weeks early and had low blood sugar, and trying to keep her awake for more than a few minutes was almost impossible) to keep pinching her because the pain would wake her up. And that was the extent of her advice. So I'm not super excited to go that route again if I can avoid it. And after reading the first few chapters of this book, the idea of contacting my local LLL group doesn't thrill me, either.

 

Apparently I need my breastfeeding resources to involve zero human contact. :lol:

 

 

My first experience was very similar to yours. My hospital lactation consultant was a hard-edged, judgemental woman whose sole purpose seemed to be to terrify a new mother into submission.  My daughter suffered for the "advice."  It took staying at my mom's for a few days while my husband was traveling to start undoing the damage. On the third night of staying up with me and walking the floor to try and quiet a crying baby, my mom looked at me and said, "Honey, this baby is very hungry and you are very tired and have no milk. This is fixable and no one that matters will think less of you."

 

For my second child, I got another militant consultant who at one point, grabbed the coughing infant out of my arms and ran out of the room.  When she came back, she informed me that the formula that my daughter had been fed formed a ball in her throat and that she could have choked to death due to my negligence. I was terrified again even though it was on the pediatrician's advice that he be given some formula.  All three of my children have been born early and small.

 

For the third child, I asked the hospital to please either send me a competent, compassionate, non-fanatical consultant or none at all. That consultant was so wonderful and helpful that I started sobbing and asked her where she had been for the first two kids.

 

I guess my advice would be that a good human will still be better than a good book. Be very explicit to the staff about the kind of consultant that you want. Every mother is different and every child is different. Finding someone who can help you craft the answers that work for you is worth its weight in gold. Rabid consultants cause more harm to mother and child and I have no respect for their inflexibility.

Edited by swimmermom3
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Just five starred the thread.

 

I big puffy heart love formula. It made my baby plump and happy. And, surprisingly enough, she is still a loving, sensitive, intelligent child. Imagine that. :001_rolleyes:

 

Anyone who has a problem with women who choose not to or can't breastfeed for whatever reason can go jump in a lake. :)

Exactly. Good grief, there are a lot of reasons some woman can't BF one or more of their kids. I remember hearing a friend of mine tell me he heartbreaking story of how much she wanted to and how it. just. would not. work.

 

That being said, just because you couldn't with your older dd doesn't mean you can't make it work this time. I hope you find a good book or consultant.

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Jack Newman's website has some helpful videos as well. Otherwise, some really great book suggestions already that I would recommend as well.

 

"I wish I could afford a doula, but unfortunately I don't have eight hundred dollars to spare right now. Babies are expensive"

 

Oh I wish I was closer and I'd volunteer to help you. I'm happy to give you my number if you or hubby have questions during labor or after. I know it's not the same as in-person doula support but if it helps to have someone to reach out to, I'm here. You're also welcome to reach out for breastfeeding questions as well.

Edited by Heather in OK
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I'm currently tandem nursing a 3 yo and a 5 mo. But I well remember my experience with nursing my first. We had multiple issues but what really drove me to finally quit was the day I gave him a bottle and then realized I was actually enjoying him for the first time since he'd been born a month before. I remember sobbing on the bathroom floor because I felt like such a failure. And I have not forgotten the nasty attitude women gave me for ending it. I later learned I have dysphoric milk ejection reflex. DMER. Basically I get an onslaught on negative hormones when my milk lets down and it's like a panic attack. It takes months for it to get better. But since I know what it is it makes it easier. 

 

That said, here is a great blog I found yesterday: Breastfeeding without BS. I really enjoyed reading a lot of it. The blogger is strong on actual science and not just oft repeated claims. 

 

http://breastfeedingwithoutbs.blogspot.com/?m=1

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The mentality behind one starring this thread is the kind that often ruins the breastfeeding experience for many women: mommy-shaming and holier-than-thou.  I am glad to see that gentler souls rectified the situation.  ETA: Of course, we have all goofed up when starring too.

 

I think people accidentally click on the stars - giving threads one star.  I don't think they're doing it on purpose.  I've read a number of posts where people say they accidentally clicked on the star.  I'm worried, because when I'm on my phone reading this forum, I don't know what I'm clicking on sometimes!   :tongue_smilie:

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Something that really helped me when starting out with my second child were YouTube videos of a good latch. Not only was I able to get her to do it a little better (though it was probably fine -perfectionist here), it helped me to not worry that the latch was wrong when my nipples were super sore.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I have not used formula but am darned glad it exists!! Fed and happy is better than breastmilk and everyone miserable. 

 

And ugh, i have the dysphoric milk ejection thing too. Thankfully it only lasts a few seconds, but it's a hot burst of anxiety and feeling of dread and doom. Then it's gone. Knowing what it is makes it much more livable. I just breathe and wait for it to pass. 

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Something that really helped me when starting out with my second child were YouTube videos of a good latch. Not only was I able to get her to do it a little better (though it was probably fine -perfectionist here), it helped me to not worry that the latch was wrong when my nipples were super sore.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh yes! Biggest breastfeeding myth--if baby has a good latch your nipples won't get sore.

 

Yeah right.

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For me, it was the opposite - I told everyone who would listen that it hurt, hurt, hurt, and they all said, well breastfeeding hurts, that's normal.

 

It was not normal.  Her latch was way too shallow, it took her 30-45 minutes to get a good feed, and it hurt like hell the whole time.  The LC I paid for showed me how to shove the breast tissue in like a sandwich, her latch was good, and there was no pain.

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The LC women have come in after almost every single birth and try to get me to feed my baby in front of them so they can see that I'm doing it properly. I politely refuse to wake my baby so that you can stare & critique my latch & holding technique. They come back. Repeatedly. I try to explain that I've done this before. They still come back. Until I insist they leave me alone. I've never met a LC in the hospital that wasn't pushy - and I gave birth in three different hospitals/cities. Apparently, having BF four previous babies doesn't give you any street cred.  :thumbdown:

 

:grouphug: Mergath. Best of luck with whatever ends up being possible!

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For me, it was the opposite - I told everyone who would listen that it hurt, hurt, hurt, and they all said, well breastfeeding hurts, that's normal.

 

It was not normal.  Her latch was way too shallow, it took her 30-45 minutes to get a good feed, and it hurt like hell the whole time.  The LC I paid for showed me how to shove the breast tissue in like a sandwich, her latch was good, and there was no pain.

 

Oh there definitely can be a reason. My first had a reason, but along with pain there was obvious malformation to my nipple when she let go, bruising, and even bleeding at one point. That was a whole other level of pain. I'm sorry you had that.

 

I do love that sandwich thing....works well.

 

I've had a few with lip ties as well, but I'm blessed with an abundant supply to oversupply, so even with less than great suction they got enough milk. But I know that is luck. 

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I think people accidentally click on the stars - giving threads one star. I don't think they're doing it on purpose. I've read a number of posts where people say they accidentally clicked on the star. I'm worried, because when I'm on my phone reading this forum, I don't know what I'm clicking on sometimes! :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes w timely possible. I fear I have done the same thing.

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Oh, AND I get nipple pain every time. And I know it is just hormonal because I was nursing while pregnant with one of my pregnancies and got sore nipples in that 9th month...obviously it wasn't a latch issue, it was hormones.

Hormones, and also nipples needing to toughen up in the first few weeks. My nipples get sore if I am nursing during pregnancy, and also get sore during the first few weeks after birth --unless-- I nursed clear through the pregnancy.

 

With my oldest we did have latch problems and my nipples ended up cracked and bleeding--that was a whole 'nother level of pain.

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