Zillow & the McMansion blog scuffle

[Katy]

Because someone in another thread didn't know this hilarious story from earlier this week, I thought I would share.

 

There's a blogger who criticizes the lack of taste in modern homes for a living on her blog, McMansion Hell.  I find it hilarious parody.  I agree most newer homes are ugly. Another member here finds it tasteless. To each their own.

 

This blogger was sourcing some of her photos from Zillow.  Zillow doesn't own any of the photos, they just get them from realtors.  Zillow didn't like her using their photos for critique and parody purposes. So they sent her a cease and desist letter. https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/26/15876602/zillow-threatens-sue-mcmansion-hell-tumblr-blog

 

The blogger asked for help on twitter, where the general consensus was outrage. The Twitterverse started a boycott of Zillow. The blogger got legal help from the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who sent this really hilarious letter (if you can understand legalese) all about how not only would she not be following their instructions, here's about 100 examples of previous case law which establish that not only is Zillow wrong in multiple ways, Zillow will be paying for her legal fees if they are stupid enough to file a lawsuit over this.

 

Zillow, shocked that the twitterverse hates bullies, reversed its threat and dropped the whole thing.  https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/29/15896146/zillow-will-not-sue-mcmansion-hell-blog

 

This is one way social media & the information age has leveled the playing field - previously it was much easier for huge companies to railroad smaller ones into compliance, even if they didn't have the legal grounds to do so.

[Bluegoat]

That is kind of neat.

 

Though,

i wonder what happens when the big companies start to catch on.

[Katy]

That is kind of neat.

 

Though,

i wonder what happens when the big companies start to catch on.

 

What do you mean?

[Farrar]

I assume she means that companies will find ways to respond?

 

I love McMansion Hell so much.

[sassenach]

I wonder, if the realtors copyrighted their photos, would that prevent her from using them?

 

I found her blog earlier this year and love it.

[Ravin]

I wonder, if the realtors copyrighted their photos, would that prevent her from using them?

 

I found her blog earlier this year and love it.

 

According to the letter, no. The parody site's use of them is arguably fair use. A "cease and desist" letter is a strong-arm tactic. This response letter is meaty enough to make it clear that it will cost actual time and money to try and shut the person they are trying to strong-arm down, and it's entirely likely they'll lose.

 

Off to check out the blog.

[Guest]

We need more turrets!!

[Katy]

I wonder, if the realtors copyrighted their photos, would that prevent her from using them?

 

I found her blog earlier this year and love it.

 

No, for the same reason that Weird Al can write parody songs and make money from them, and why the movie review industry can exist.  As long as you expand on a photo (with annotations, etc) OR use it for review, it falls under fair use.

[Katy]

I assume she means that companies will find ways to respond?

 

I love McMansion Hell so much.

 

Companies do respond, by having someone in customer service or public relations make sure no one complains about them on twitter or facebook.  They know they can't win the negative publicity war.  See United Breaks Guitars. 

[mamaraby]

I'm glad the EFF stepped in to help. I was hoping someone like them or Popehat would come to her aid as I figured likely all she's need to solve it was a good letter sent in her defense - especially as Zillow realized the negative press they were receiving in response.

[GailV]

I had not heard of McMansion Hell until this kerfluffle popped up somewhere I was reading.  Hurrah for the Streisand effect!

 

Also, other people here follow Popehat?  Worlds are colliding!  

[kitten18]

I've never seen that blog before but, yuck. I agree with whoever the other poster is here who thinks it's tasteless.

[Tangerine]

The other day, elsewhere, someone asked for reviews of a series of books on composers that had cartoon illustrations. And someone said that they thought it was very disrespectful that a book on a serious topic (music?) had cartoon drawings. And then I decided I do not understand the world anymore.

 

I find her humorous and educational on a topic I know little about. I'm glad the internet did its work.

 

ETA: Not humerus, autocorrect. Seriously.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Tangerine

[Tangerine]

That is kind of neat.

 

Though,

i wonder what happens when the big companies start to catch on.

 

I could get on board with this!

 

Zillow's new tactic should be "As featured on McMansion Hell" icons for the houses.  I'd totally buy one, would I could I afford a McMansion.

[maize]

The other day, elsewhere, someone asked for reviews of a series of books on composers that had cartoon illustrations. And someone said that they thought it was very disrespectful that a book on a serious topic (music?) had cartoon drawings. And then I decided I do not understand the world anymore.

Seriously?!?

[hjffkj]

I had never heard of that blog but I'm glad they got legal support and Zillow has backed off.

 

I read the blog a bit. I don't find it tasteless but I didn't find it humourous either.

[Alessandra]

Thank you for the McMansion blog link, fascinating.

 

I thought you might enjoy this sort of related topic on Dictator Style. Lots of gold and furniture in Louis the Hotel style.

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/trump-style-dictator-autocrats-design-214877

[Guest]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

[Alessandra]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

This is just my opinion, but I think mansion has become a subjective word for a house that its occupants don't deserve.

 

For example, one married Duggar girl lives in a house that is called a mansion by critics of the family. Not an unusual house on its own, but unusual for an unemployed woman and her essentially unemployed husband to have such a nice place.

 

Another example. NJ Governor Christie closed down much if the state over a budget kerfluffle. Island Beach State Park was closed over 4th of July weekend -- except that Christie and his family vacationed at the official governor's beach house there. An ordinary house, but people called it a mansion -- Christie didn't deserve it.

[Bluegoat]

What do you mean?

 

 

I assume she means that companies will find ways to respond?

 

I love McMansion Hell so much.

 

Yes.  Big companies can manipulate social media as well as any one else.

[Scarlett]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

This from Wikipedia is what I think when I hear the term,

 

<<<In suburban communities, McMansion is a pejorative term for a large "mass-produced" dwelling, constructed with low-quality materials and craftsmanship, using a mishmash of architectural symbols to invoke connotations of wealth or taste, executed via poorly thought-out exterior and interior design.>>>

[Bluegoat]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

 

I find the site really difficult to navigate.  I can't find thinsg easily at all.

 

But, IIRC, there is a section on this, and what she says is that there isn't a hard line between the mansion and mcmansion.  The principle seems to be that the mcmansion seems to be a chepo version in some way - they are trying to be something they are not. It may be on a tiny lot so it is out of proportion.  Often the materials are inferior, and won't wear well.  For example, fake stone on the facade, or then they will use cheaper siding on the sides where you can't see it. 

 

There may be ready-made architectural features that are actually used inappropriately - like "keystones" that are obviously fake, could never work, or are stuck on places they shouldn't go.  They tend to have been poorly designed in general, so you will get a real mish mash of styles that don't hand together, or features (like turrets) that are out of proportion.  Or, say a roof that looks like it is too wide with no windows.  Columns that don't match the architectural style, or each other. Wonky symmetry.

 

The quality of things you don't see is often poor - plumbing, basement construction, and so on.

 

Also, there seem to be certain features that aren't only found on mcmansions but are particularly typical when you do have one.  Big garage doors facing the street creating extended blank spaces on the facade.  Very complex rooflines (that cost a fortune to reshingle and often aren't well fitted together, and have no purpose in terms of the interior.)  Big porticos on the front with columns.  Two-level great rooms.  Lack of quality detailing inside. 

 

So, you do get homes that seem to walk the line - maybe better quality building with bad design meant to impress, for example.  Or a more modest home but with some of the features that suggest it is trying to be "upscale".

Edited July 6, 2017 by Bluegoat

[historically accurate]

This is just my opinion, but I think mansion has become a subjective word for a house that its occupants don't deserve.

 

For example, one married Duggar girl lives in a house that is called a mansion by critics of the family. Not an unusual house on its own, but unusual for an unemployed woman and her essentially unemployed husband to have such a nice place.

 

Another example. NJ Governor Christie closed down much if the state over a budget kerfluffle. Island Beach State Park was closed over 4th of July weekend -- except that Christie and his family vacationed at the official governor's beach house there. An ordinary house, but people called it a mansion -- Christie didn't deserve it.

 

I don't think that is really true. No one would ever call my mobile home a mansion despite the fact that I don't deserve it (long story) and it's double the size of my neighbors. No one would call a Section 8 apartment a mansion despite the fact that many people would think the occupant doesn't deserve it. There is a line; now where that line is, I admit, squishy, and I would think that line is location and income level specific. A mansion to a working poor person in urban LA may register as "just a regular house" to a upper middle class person in the suburbs. 

 

The official governor's beach house is 5 bedrooms, 3 baths on the beach. Where I come from that is not an ordinary house. I can't find out too much about the house because everything on google brings up his beach time, not the house. However, it was built by a partner of Carnegie, so I'm guessing it's a little better digs than the average house in my area. 

 

I know nothing about any of the Duggar's houses, so I can't comment since I don't even know which daughter you're talking about.

 

What people refer to a McMansion where I come from are the 3000+ sq foot boxes that are squished on a normal sized city lot. They are not in and of themselves all that spectacular in and of themselves, but they definitely try to set themselves apart from the standard post WWII 1000-1500 sq foot ranches. They often have a rounded breakfast nook area, a 2 story great room, and sometimes lots of gabled windows.

 

What people would call a mansion in this area are often set on acreage and have some sort of "one of a kind" feature, such as a 6 car garage, an airplane hanger, an indoor pool, etc.

[Guest]

We need more turrets!!

Here's my true confession: ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to have a house with some strange castle features, like turrets and secret rooms. I still think it would be awesome to have a house like that. I even have ideas for a ladder-only accessible turret that only a child or tiny person could access. And I would want some secret room passageways that only cats can traverse. And I want a prayer and meditation room. Just a small closet that is only for personal quiet time for one person, woth a light or something on the outside when it is occupied.

[Guest]

What people refer to a McMansion where I come from are the 3000+ sq foot boxes that are squished on a normal sized city lot. They are not in and of themselves all that spectacular in and of themselves, but they definitely try to set themselves apart from the standard post WWII 1000-1500 sq foot ranches. They often have a rounded breakfast nook area, a 2 story great room, and sometimes lots of gabled windows.

 

What people would call a mansion in this area are often set on acreage and have some sort of "one of a kind" feature, such as a 6 car garage, an airplane hanger, an indoor pool, etc.

Agreeing on McMansion vs. mansion. McMansions where I live are usually called this (pejoratively) when a little bungalow has been torn down and the modern, huge, fancy house in its place sits on a regular or small lot.

 

When people say "mansion" (without the "Mc"), the house usually does have one or more special features and are usually on a large lot or farm-sized property. I call my SIL's house a mansion because the square footage is in the five digits (yes, really) and it has attached work office suites and every fancy finish you can think of - granite and marble built-ins everywhere, special carpeting, a hand-painted domed ceiling meant to look like the sky, and on and on. And on.

 

But some people call my house a "mansion," too. It is big, and on acreage, and was custom-built. People don't even necessarily mean it as a compliment when they say "mansion," without the "Mc."

[Tangerine]

We are closing on a new house in a week.  The shopping process here was infuriating to me, because while I need room for 7 people, I don't want the mass produced enormity on a postage stamp.  And that's what we have in droves.  They are so much form over function, and weird faux fanciness.

[Bluegoat]

http://pks-staging.pc.gc.ca/en/rep-reg/place-lieu.aspx?id=7324&pid=0​There is nothing wrong with a turret!  It's an inappropriate, improperly sized one that is questionable.  Or one that is stuck on but actually, you can't get into from the inside!

 

 

My mom lived in the turret of this house, called the Women's Council House, at one time - I think it's a great turret!

 

[Bluegoat]

Incidentally, I have heard it said that the word "mansion" itself tends to be aspirational.

[Alessandra]

Agreeing on McMansion vs. mansion. McMansions where I live are usually called this (pejoratively) when a little bungalow has been torn down and the modern, huge, fancy house in its place sits on a regular or small lot.

 

When people say "mansion" (without the "Mc"), the house usually does have one or more special features and are usually on a large lot or farm-sized property. I call my SIL's house a mansion because the square footage is in the five digits (yes, really) and it has attached work office suites and every fancy finish you can think of - granite and marble built-ins everywhere, special carpeting, a hand-painted domed ceiling meant to look like the sky, and on and on. And on.

 

But some people call my house a "mansion," too. It is big, and on acreage, and was custom-built. People don't even necessarily mean it as a compliment when they say "mansion," without the "Mc."

And, as an aside, the gigantic houses in Newport are called cottages.

[Guest]

Agreeing on McMansion vs. mansion. McMansions where I live are usually called this (pejoratively) when a little bungalow has been torn down and the modern, huge, fancy house in its place sits on a regular or small lot.

 

When people say "mansion" (without the "Mc"), the house usually does have one or more special features and are usually on a large lot or farm-sized property. I call my SIL's house a mansion because the square footage is in the five digits (yes, really) and it has attached work office suites and every fancy finish you can think of - granite and marble built-ins everywhere, special carpeting, a hand-painted domed ceiling meant to look like the sky, and on and on. And on.

 

But some people call my house a "mansion," too. It is big, and on acreage, and was custom-built. People don't even necessarily mean it as a compliment when they say "mansion," without the "Mc."

Agreeing. McMansions, to me, are in new subdivisions. Each new subdivision has a few McMansions surrounded by normal sized but still faux-fancy houses.

 

A mansion has land around it and actual high-end finishes. We know a guy building a 20,000 sq ft house on land. He has two grown kids so he totally needs that kind of space 😜!

Edited July 6, 2017 by Moxie

[Alessandra]

I don't think that is really true. No one would ever call my mobile home a mansion despite the fact that I don't deserve it (long story) and it's double the size of my neighbors. No one would call a Section 8 apartment a mansion despite the fact that many people would think the occupant doesn't deserve it. There is a line; now where that line is, I admit, squishy, and I would think that line is location and income level specific. A mansion to a working poor person in urban LA may register as "just a regular house" to a upper middle class person in the suburbs.

 

The official governor's beach house is 5 bedrooms, 3 baths on the beach. Where I come from that is not an ordinary house. I can't find out too much about the house because everything on google brings up his beach time, not the house. However, it was built by a partner of Carnegie, so I'm guessing it's a little better digs than the average house in my area.

 

I know nothing about any of the Duggar's houses, so I can't comment since I don't even know which daughter you're talking about.

 

What people refer to a McMansion where I come from are the 3000+ sq foot boxes that are squished on a normal sized city lot. They are not in and of themselves all that spectacular in and of themselves, but they definitely try to set themselves apart from the standard post WWII 1000-1500 sq foot ranches. They often have a rounded breakfast nook area, a 2 story great room, and sometimes lots of gabled windows.

 

What people would call a mansion in this area are often set on acreage and have some sort of "one of a kind" feature, such as a 6 car garage, an airplane hanger, an indoor pool, etc.

I was being a bit facetious. Quill put it nicely -- mansion as a pejorative term.

 

I love looking at McMansions. As you say, two story entryways. Random Palladian windows. And a number of houses owned by Russians seem to have lots of paving in the front and spiky iron fences.

[BarbecueMom]

I always thought McMansions were just nicer, bigger, newer houses that middle class people live in. So, all new construction suburban subdivisions, basically. It was used pejoratively growing up to refer to any house that wasn't old, a trailer, or a 3bed/1bath ranch or split level. It didn't have to be gaudy, it just had to be better than what we had.

[KungFuPanda]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

Around me, the concept of McMansion is attached to prioritizing square footage over anything else when building a home. It can be a 3000 sq ft home on 1/5 acre of land with a faux-whatever front and vinyl siding all around. It'll tick all the luxury boxes for hardwoods, granite, and tall kitchen cabinets, but the builder will use bottom-of-the line for all of these things. Also, the homes will all be built in less than a year then the builders will move out. It's all about a fast buck and the illusion of wealth and quality. They begin to fall apart a-la-Weeds as soon as the home warranty expires.

 

People use McMansion to refer to luxury tract housing.

[sassenach]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/149284377161/mansionvsmcmansion

[Katy]

Thank you for the McMansion blog link, fascinating.

 

I thought you might enjoy this sort of related topic on Dictator Style. Lots of gold and furniture in Louis the Hotel style.

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/trump-style-dictator-autocrats-design-214877

Ha!  Love this.  Reminds me of that Paul Fussell book, Class, that we've discussed a dozen times here.

 

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

Yes, agreeing with others - McMansion is a pejorative term for overpriced middle class "new" "fancy" housing developments that are designed to show off, rather than designed for lasting style or quality.  They are usually overly gaudy, on a tiny stamp of a lawn, and their neighbor's houses are disturbingly close for something priced more than double the typical family home in the area (usually the space between houses is smaller than the driveways are wide). They are usually hideously ugly and have no architectural style to speak of.  Typically the entire development will only have 6 floor plans to choose from - some reversed, some with slightly different tones of fake siding, but no custom homes - despite the contractor marketing each as a "custom" home.  Frequently there are obvious signs of low quality - things like the studs being placed so far apart, and the drywall so thin the walls are wavy even when the home is brand new.  You will also notice creaking stairs, creaking floors, and things like cheap cabinets under expensive stone counter tops.

 

 

Here's my true confession: ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to have a house with some strange castle features, like turrets and secret rooms. I still think it would be awesome to have a house like that. I even have ideas for a ladder-only accessible turret that only a child or tiny person could access. And I would want some secret room passageways that only cats can traverse. And I want a prayer and meditation room. Just a small closet that is only for personal quiet time for one person, woth a light or something on the outside when it is occupied.

 

Ha!  I chose our wedding location (an old stone lodge) for exactly the same reason.  I would like a few castle style features too, but only if the house is build to last 1000 years, not the kind that will be torn down in less than 100.

 

Around me, the concept of McMansion is attached to prioritizing square footage over anything else when building a home. It can be a 3000 sq ft home on 1/5 acre of land with a faux-whatever front and vinyl siding all around. It'll tick all the luxury boxes for hardwoods, granite, and tall kitchen cabinets, but the builder will use bottom-of-the line for all of these things. Also, the homes will all be built in less than a year then the builders will move out. It's all about a fast buck and the illusion of wealth and quality. They begin to fall apart a-la-Weeds as soon as the home warranty expires.

 

People use McMansion to refer to luxury tract housing.

 

Yes, this.

[Guest]

Around me, the concept of McMansion is attached to prioritizing square footage over anything else when building a home. It can be a 3000 sq ft home on 1/5 acre of land with a faux-whatever front and vinyl siding all around. It'll tick all the luxury boxes for hardwoods, granite, and tall kitchen cabinets, but the builder will use bottom-of-the line for all of these things. Also, the homes will all be built in less than a year then the builders will move out. It's all about a fast buck and the illusion of wealth and quality. They begin to fall apart a-la-Weeds as soon as the home warranty expires.

 

People use McMansion to refer to luxury tract housing.

 

Okay, that makes sense. We have neighborhoods like that here and they amaze me. 5k square feet on less than .25 acre lots. I get claustrophobic driving through those neighborhoods. The houses loom over the streets and you can stand between them and practically touch the next house. If they have a pool it IS the backyard- no grass.  It's just crazy to me because we have all kinds of land around for sale and they could make the lots so much bigger if they wanted to, but then they would have to build fewer houses. But I guess cram them in and people buy anyway. And put up with crazy restrictive HOAs on top of it!!!

 

But we have a lot of what I would consider honest estate mansions around here too after reading these definitions, with air strips and tennis courts and full stables, so that explanation makes more sense with the special features. Now that I'm thinking about it they're massive, but understated. Most of them at least. And on LAND. I never thought about it before!! I will never look at houses in the same way after this thread. As usual, learn something new here every day. 

 

Happy here in my definite non-mansion- Mc or otherwise!  Unless 70's custom ranch style comes to be the rage and a chicken coop and horse barn is considered a special feature. ;)  Maybe if I ever sell  I'll look into that as marketing! LOL. "Grand estate features rustic aviary and unique equestrian center......"  :lol:

[SarahW]

Side topic: Okay, dumb question probably but I've been looking on the blog since this post and haven't figured out the bar for "mansion", McMansion or otherwise. Did I miss it in the FAQ somewhere? I mean some, yeah, are obvious. But some are just regular houses. They definitely aren't mansions of either sort. Is there a land and square footage entry or something or is it rather (attempted) grandiosity. I can't see anything under 8k square feet even attempting at mansion status, Mc or otherwise, particularly if it doesn't have estate level land attached to it. I guess all houses are fair game?

 

 

I binged on this blog a few days ago and somewhere, yeah, no idea where, she defines McMansion and differentiates it from Mansion. I don't like tumblr.

 

I think she also mentioned excess bedrooms, unusable balconies, and acoustically unsound rooms in her definition of McMansion.

 

 

I think the blog is hilarious, but then again, I am totally on board with the "wut? lol" style of snark communication.

 

But also, my brother worked in a custom cabinetry shop for a little while, apprenticing with a guy who actually knew how to do his job. The total crap they saw when they did jobs in some of the "rich people" houses just blew his mind. It was so ridiculous, it became something of a running joke. 

 

Later, I worked with a guy whose previous job was in granite, and installing granite countertops. So I asked him one day "so what do you do when you go to install the corner piece and the wall isn't 90 degrees?" His answer was "Hammer." He wasn't talking about the granite. Co-workers were a bit confused, and were more confused when he said his company used the hammer solution pretty often. He and I just laughed and shook our heads.

 

Yeah, those houses are full of structural oopsies. I wasn't at all shocked when MMH made comments on some of the pictures pointing out visible water damage. The proper construction of eaves seems to have been the first thing forgotten by the McMansion builders.

[Mergath]

 

 

Yes, agreeing with others - McMansion is a pejorative term for overpriced middle class "new" "fancy" housing developments that are designed to show off, rather than designed for lasting style or quality.  They are usually overly gaudy, on a tiny stamp of a lawn, and their neighbor's houses are disturbingly close for something priced more than double the typical family home in the area (usually the space between houses is smaller than the driveways are wide). They are usually hideously ugly and have no architectural style to speak of.  Typically the entire development will only have 6 floor plans to choose from - some reversed, some with slightly different tones of fake siding, but no custom homes - despite the contractor marketing each as a "custom" home.  Frequently there are obvious signs of low quality - things like the studs being placed so far apart, and the drywall so thin the walls are wavy even when the home is brand new.  You will also notice creaking stairs, creaking floors, and things like cheap cabinets under expensive stone counter tops.

 

:iagree:  This is what I think of when I think of a McMansion. (Or a starter castle, I like that term too for the ones covered in fake stone on the front.) It has nothing to do with whether or not the person deserves the house, but trying to cram in as much square footage as humanly possible and then making it look as expensive as possible as cheaply as possible.

 

We have a lot of them around here on certain lakes. You'll see a cute smallish cottage that's been there a while, then three or four McMansions crammed onto the next three lots, all about five feet apart and a foot from the street because they tried to cram the house onto a tiny lakeshore lot. They look ridiculous. They really are objectively ugly. I want to cry when I think about all the lovely smaller homes that were torn down to make room for the gaudy monstrosities.

 

[Bluegoat]

:iagree:  This is what I think of when I think of a McMansion. (Or a starter castle, I like that term too for the ones covered in fake stone on the front.) It has nothing to do with whether or not the person deserves the house, but trying to cram in as much square footage as humanly possible and then making it look as expensive as possible as cheaply as possible.

 

We have a lot of them around here on certain lakes. You'll see a cute smallish cottage that's been there a while, then three or four McMansions crammed onto the next three lots, all about five feet apart and a foot from the street because they tried to cram the house onto a tiny lakeshore lot. They look ridiculous. They really are objectively ugly. I want to cry when I think about all the lovely smaller homes that were torn down to make room for the gaudy monstrosities.

 

 

Yes!

 

We have a similar problem in my city now with actual manisons, strange as it is to imagine.  There is one street in particular which is the very wealthy city place to live, and the houses are generally pretty big.  Now, quite a few are flats, or condos, but still the most wealthy people live in some of the others.  And they are well-built and attractive homes.

 

Recently, developers have bought some of these, in perfectly good condition, and knocked them down to put up new luxury flats that fill up the whole lot.  One was so eager to get started before someone could get an injunction that they started to pull it down while a resident was watching tv inside.

 

Though bad taste can happen with real mansions, too.  The biggest house on that street was built about 20 years ago by really wealthy people.  They pulled down quite a pretty house that was large but not a "mansion" and built something with a bowling alley, movie theater, and about 100 useless columns outside.  At least though it doesn't fill the lot, and the people are extremely generous patrons, even if they have bad taste.

[Tangerine]

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/153307815291/naperville-il

 

Well. It looks like my town is one of her "most requested locations." I am not shocked.

 

The issue that irritates me the most in my town is the purchase of tiny downtown lots that are completely filled with house. Literally no natural space or grass or a freaking bush. Downtown is quaint no more.

[Alice]

My dh is an architect and we have long remarked on what we call "stupid houses" as we go on walks and drives around Northern Virginia. He has seen the McMansion blog and thought it was funny. And the examples were very familiar to us. 

 

I think as an architect (and the blogger is an architect) he sees a lot of things the general population doesn't see. Or at least I don't see. And the kinds of things that bug him don't necessarily bug me, until he points them out. It's things like materials he knows are really cheap. Or columns that do nothing. Weird balconies that go nowhere. A lot of the same things she points out on her blog. 

[meena]

I binged on this blog a few days ago and somewhere, yeah, no idea where, she defines McMansion and differentiates it from Mansion. I don't like tumblr.

 

I think she also mentioned excess bedrooms, unusable balconies, and acoustically unsound rooms in her definition of McMansion.

 

 

I think the blog is hilarious, but then again, I am totally on board with the "wut? lol" style of snark communication.

 

But also, my brother worked in a custom cabinetry shop for a little while, apprenticing with a guy who actually knew how to do his job. The total crap they saw when they did jobs in some of the "rich people" houses just blew his mind. It was so ridiculous, it became something of a running joke. 

 

Later, I worked with a guy whose previous job was in granite, and installing granite countertops. So I asked him one day "so what do you do when you go to install the corner piece and the wall isn't 90 degrees?" His answer was "Hammer." He wasn't talking about the granite. Co-workers were a bit confused, and were more confused when he said his company used the hammer solution pretty often. He and I just laughed and shook our heads.

 

Yeah, those houses are full of structural oopsies. I wasn't at all shocked when MMH made comments on some of the pictures pointing out visible water damage. The proper construction of eaves seems to have been the first thing forgotten by the McMansion builders.

 

I read through some of her back posts this past week. Kind of a slog getting to the older posts on tumblr, but here's a good place to start for those who want kind of a "primer" of sorts to what the blog author thinks defines McMansions: http://mcmansionhell.com/101

 

She also talks about mansion vs. McMansion here and here.

 

I can see where the author's humor wouldn't be for everyone. If you can get past the snark, though, she has valid criticism of the nonsensical nature of modern ultra-consumerism and its impact on housing. Do people really need houses with 6+ living rooms? His and her vanities? Extensive draperies that are nailed to the moulding so therefore cannot close and are only decorative? Columns, keystones, and quoins that by design are meant to be supportive yet are now reduced to foam eyesores? Her only criticism that I take extreme issue with is her hatred of garden/jetted tubs. She can pry mine out of my pruney, waterlogged hands, lol.

 

I like that she addresses issues from the standpoint of architectural standards and history. For many of her points she's not just some eye-rolling millennial--she shows how many of these McMansions that are sold under the guise of wealth and good taste are actually quite the opposite.

[SamanthaCarter]

I read this recently and found it interesting. The winds are shifting..http://www.realtor.com/news/trends/boomers-millennials-and-the-mcmansions-no-one-wants/

 

 

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[Alessandra]

Ha! Love this. Reminds me of that Paul Fussell book, Class, that we've discussed a dozen times here.

.

Oh, I missed those discussions and have not read the book (yet). No Kindle edition, will have to wait or try library. I have always been a fan of Nancy Mitford, so I am sure I will enjoy Fussell.

 

For anyone who is not familiar with The Young Visiters, by Daisy Ashford, here is a link

 

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/21415/21415-h/21415-h.htm

 

And, a true story. A friend of a friend was taking an elective college course in history of landscape design. The class looked at 18th century England, of course. The friend of a friend wanted to know if it were still possible to hire hermits. For the grotto. I am not kidding!

[Selkie]

We're in the construction industry and I can tell you that one reason for the proliferation of mcmansion-type houses is that for every homeowner with tacky taste, there's an architect with tacky taste willing to design a home for them. People think of architects as arbiters of good taste, but believe me, that's not always the case. 

[BarbecueMom]

I read this recently and found it interesting. The winds are shifting..http://www.realtor.com/news/trends/boomers-millennials-and-the-mcmansions-no-one-wants/

 

 

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To buy a house or condo in one of those desired neighborhoods around here, I'd have to drop a bedroom or two, lose the finished basement and the garage, pay 2-3x as much for the house and 4-5x as much in property taxes. And double the maintenance budget by adding 35+ years to the age of the house (and mine is 40yrs old!). That's not saving millennial or boomer buyers anything at all. It would also shave a whopping 5 minutes off DH's commute, once you factor traffic and non-highway driving.

 

Big houses, small houses, subdivisions in the middle of nowhere, hip neighborhoods, it's all crazy expensive.

[mamaraby]

I read this recently and found it interesting. The winds are shifting..http://www.realtor.com/news/trends/boomers-millennials-and-the-mcmansions-no-one-wants/

 

 

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Oh my yes! I found this bit from that article describe us:

 

As for Generation X, having weathered the Great Recession during what should have been their prime earning years, they now have to save for their kids' college expenses, their retirement, and caring for their aging parents. So they're not likely to trade up from their starter homes. And if they do, many prefer an easier-to-maintain smaller home in a community with activities they enjoy—just like those millennials and boomers, Dorsey says.

I think I always thought we'd do like my parents did and this house would be just a start, but honestly, all of the reasons they give is why we'll probably just stay right where we are. One bathroom and all.

[Sneezyone]

I just want a nice American foursquare or Craftsman bungalow. Builders don't build anything that simple or functional anymore and it's a shame. There's one Littke Rock neighborhood where the builders tried them and the market tanked just as they started. All the homes in the front (50 or so) are gorgeous and traditional, front verandas and all. All the homes in the back were completed by other developers and are McMansion monstrosities. Guess what, nobody moves from the original homes. I'd have to go door to door and pay a pretty penny to find a seller. The others are a dime a dozen, forming rings around the city proper.

[Katy]

I read through some of her back posts this past week. Kind of a slog getting to the older posts on tumblr, but here's a good place to start for those who want kind of a "primer" of sorts to what the blog author thinks defines McMansions: http://mcmansionhell.com/101

 

She also talks about mansion vs. McMansion here and here.

 

I can see where the author's humor wouldn't be for everyone. If you can get past the snark, though, she has valid criticism of the nonsensical nature of modern ultra-consumerism and its impact on housing. Do people really need houses with 6+ living rooms? His and her vanities? Extensive draperies that are nailed to the moulding so therefore cannot close and are only decorative? Columns, keystones, and quoins that by design are meant to be supportive yet are now reduced to foam eyesores? Her only criticism that I take extreme issue with is her hatred of garden/jetted tubs. She can pry mine out of my pruney, waterlogged hands, lol.

 

I like that she addresses issues from the standpoint of architectural standards and history. For many of her points she's not just some eye-rolling millennial--she shows how many of these McMansions that are sold under the guise of wealth and good taste are actually quite the opposite.

You had me until you said jetted tub.  Yuck!  :001_rolleyes:

 

I just want a nice American foursquare or Craftsman bungalow. Builders don't build anything that simple or functional anymore and it's a shame. There's one Littke Rock neighborhood where the builders tried them and the market tanked just as they started. All the homes in the front (50 or so) are gorgeous and traditional, front verandas and all. All the homes in the back were completed by other developers and are McMansion monstrosities. Guess what, nobody moves from the original homes. I'd have to go door to door and pay a pretty penny to find a seller. The others are a dime a dozen, forming rings around the city proper.

 

Yes, those older building methods really are better.  Years ago we were living in Iowa and a tornado hit a small town up north.  Parkersburg, maybe?  What was striking about it is that in the aerial shots afterwards you could see that all the people in the old homes were fine - they might have taken off the top floor, or even the main floor, but the basements were fine.  The old 2x6 diagonal subfloors held together despite high winds, and despite flooring itself being ripped up in a few places. .  The newer homes were all leveled, basements exposed, and I may not be remembering it correctly but it seems like a few people who were sheltering in basements were seriously hurt in the newer homes. Apparently the plywood subfloors act like a giant kite in high winds. 

 

We also had a bad windstorm when we lived in Oklahoma. I didn't realize at the time our house had a 2x6 roof instead of a plywood roof.  It leaked immediately in the storm, but the roof repair guys said it was much better than a regular roof because wind could get through it without tearing the entire roof off.  Apparently several people on our block needed the entire roof replaced after that storm.

[Bluegoat]

I just want a nice American foursquare or Craftsman bungalow. Builders don't build anything that simple or functional anymore and it's a shame. There's one Littke Rock neighborhood where the builders tried them and the market tanked just as they started. All the homes in the front (50 or so) are gorgeous and traditional, front verandas and all. All the homes in the back were completed by other developers and are McMansion monstrosities. Guess what, nobody moves from the original homes. I'd have to go door to door and pay a pretty penny to find a seller. The others are a dime a dozen, forming rings around the city proper.

 

Yes, I've noticed this too.

 

When we were last looking, I'd see these houses that had some of the amenities or location I wanted, but they would be too expensive, or not have enough of the right kind of space.  And in every case a factor was that they used up a lot of space on things like extra bathrooms, which are expensive square footage.  Or each bedroom would have a walk in closet that put together, would make a whole extra large bedroom.

Orr, they would have all kinds of expensive surface finishes that were faddish, like granite counters, that jacked up the price for a basically modest house.