How do you handle boyfriends/girlfriends staying the night at your house?

[EmseB]

I was pretty sure as a teen that I managed to snow my parents on some occasions. Looking back as an adult, however, I am not so sure that they didn't actually know what was going on and simply decided not to mention it.

 

I know that I have not called out my children on everything they shouldn't have done. An experienced mom friend told me many years ago: "A mom does not need to have seen everything". Wise words indeed.

On the other hand, I'd rather my kids not think that it's a good idea to fudge things for their own benefit, or that because someone doesn't understand that they are getting the wool pulled over their eyes (like their mom or their teachers) that that's how they should get along in life

 

The times I got caught trying to pull one over on my parents were way more beneficial to me than when I got away with stuff and felt good about not getting in trouble for shenanigans.

 

And of course, how and when a parent deals with this sort of thing is certainly their prerogative and maybe some things I thought I was getting away with was stuff my parents didn't care about. But if a kid is making a habit of trying to snow their parents and parents being oblivious I don't think that's a good dynamic for a healthy relationship, just for one thing.

Edited July 4, 2017 by EmseB

[goldberry]

 It also still does not make sense to me that she would be sort of unintentionally or accidentally out late and then suddenly be overcome with extraordinary fatigue. Doesn't an 18yo have a reasonable grasp of her body signals? To me, that is a reasonable part of being able to drive - understanding that you will have to drive back.

 

 But what's so horrible in that the parents asked you to come get her? They have a standard about a GF staying over 

 

 

Well, right, regentrude, but correct me if I'm wrong, you're not a believer in chastity before marriage. ?

 

I am not pro-chastity, but I have a very close familiarity with how people who are think. Not having BF/GF sleeping over is seen as sort of an obvious given.

 

 

.

 

 I have said this before on here, and I know some people don't "get" it, especially the extroverts here, but I like my little peaceful orderly home and really hate surprise guests. I like my quiet house and my routine and not having to figure out if there are bagels 😉 and cream cheese. I don't even like overnight guests most of the time; 

 

 

The circumstances would have to happen, I assume, for me to know what I would do, but if the person was suddenly/obviously ill, I would most definitely be attempting to reach the parents. I wouldn't default to, "Well, just spend the night here," but if she is obviously sick, she needs her parents. If they can't be reached (although in my world, nearly everybody is reachable within a couple hours at most) I would let her stay until we worked out what to do, i.e., go to the ER, rest on the couch while I keep trying to locate the parents, etc.

 

.

 

 

 Know what I thought? I thought, "Wow, my parents got conned." I also conned them myself later, with similar defenses. 

 

I did not think it was "horrible" for them to want me to come and get her.  But it did affect my view of the mom in a negative way, and it sounds like many would agree with me.  It was very uncaring of her toward DD, at a time when I would have thought there was caring there.  As the girl she has known for almost 2 years, as the girl her son loves, and just as a mom in general toward a young person.

 

You mention you don't like overnight guests.  That was NOT the case in this family, as described by the BF, they routinely have people hanging out there and/or staying over if they are there late.  So obviously it was an issue specifically to her being a GF. 

 

Saying this would be an obvious thing for a family that values chastity is not accurate.  I would say there are quite a lot of conservative people, both on this board and IRL, that value chastity but do not equate sleeping under the same roof under specific circumstance as encouraging or endorsing sexual behavior.  I have already said I would not endorse it in an "entertainment" kind of way (just for fun).  But this was a different circumstance. No, it was not a clear cut emergency.  It was an uncomfortable and awkward situation.  The inflexibility in that situation was disturbing to me. 

 

You clearly have never had the problem of getting too sleepy to drive when you "didn't plan on it".  Other people (as well as statistics) are telling you it is very real.  I am getting annoyed by you continuing to insist that this is either a scam or that DD is somehow incomprehensibly stupid and maybe shouldn't be driving.  She has been driving this route for 2 years with no problems and utmost responsibility.  In addition to her previously being sick (and no, she was not sick right then that day, she wasn't spreading disease)  there were some other circumstances involved regarding how this played out.  And yes, we did discuss it, but I absolutely saw how the circumstances led to what happened.  We talked about how to apply this in the future.  She did not deserve to be shamed and embarrassed as she was.  You may not believe it and can't let go of either suspicion or judgment about it.  That's fine.  I'm her mom, and I know what happened.  I'm not going any further trying to explain it.  But part of your assessment of this situation seems to be based on the idea that this was either a scam or just DD being stupid.  Either way, nothing the mom should have any sympathy for.  And frankly, if that is what the other mom was thinking, after knowing my daughter for 1.5 years, then I think my negative feelings toward her are completely justified.

 

ETA, for the record, even young people just being stupid sometimes still deserve sympathy... and grace.  

Edited July 4, 2017 by goldberry

[marbel]

I'm one of those people who believes it is important to avoid the appearance of impropriety and wrongdoing.  My husband is one of those guys that some of y'all have mocked here in the past - who avoids being alone with an unrelated female.  I hope my kids will reserve sex for marriage (I wish I had) but I understand they may not.  I don't plan to do anything to facilitate them engaging in sex before marriage in my home.   ETA: I guess I should have said "sex without marriage" because, of course, they  may never marry.  And I do reserve the right to change my mind, if, for example, one or the other ends up in a committed but non-married relationship well into adulthood.  

 

But the situation Goldberry describe isn't even on my radar.  My husband read it too, and it's not on his.  The girl would have been staying in the home of a family she has known for over a year. Parents and siblings were going to be there.  I would assume parents in the home would take steps to ensure separate sleeping quarters.   If anyone happened to see her car there and started gossiping about it, I hope other people who know the family would assume the best and shut down the gossip, not assume the worst and participate in it!

Edited July 4, 2017 by marbel

[2squared]

I did not think it was "horrible" for them to want me to come and get her.  But it did affect my view of the mom in a negative way, and it sounds like many would agree with me.  It was very uncaring of her toward DD, at a time when I would have thought there was caring there.  As the girl she has known for almost 2 years, as the girl her son loves, and just as a mom in general toward a young person.

 

You mention you don't like overnight guests.  That was NOT the case in this family, as described by the BF, they routinely have people hanging out there and/or staying over if they are there late.  So obviously it was an issue specifically to her being a GF. 

 

Saying this would be an obvious thing for a family that values chastity is not accurate.  I would say there are quite a lot of conservative people, both on this board and IRL, that value chastity but do not equate sleeping under the same roof under specific circumstance as encouraging or endorsing sexual behavior.  I have already said I would not endorse it in an "entertainment" kind of way (just for fun).  But this was a different circumstance. No, it was not a clear cut emergency.  It was an uncomfortable and awkward situation.  The inflexibility in that situation was disturbing to me. 

 

You clearly have never had the problem of getting too sleepy to drive when you "didn't plan on it".  Other people (as well as statistics) are telling you it is very real.  I am getting annoyed by you continuing to insist that this is either a scam or that DD is somehow incomprehensibly stupid and maybe shouldn't be driving.  She has been driving this route for 2 years with no problems and utmost responsibility.  In addition to her previously being sick (and no, she was not sick right then that day, she wasn't spreading disease)  there were some other circumstances involved regarding how this played out.  And yes, we did discuss it, but I absolutely saw how the circumstances led to what happened.  We talked about how to apply this in the future.  She did not deserve to be shamed and embarrassed as she was.  You may not believe it and can't let go of either suspicion or judgment about it.  That's fine.  I'm her mom, and I know what happened.  I'm not going any further trying to explain it.  But part of your assessment of this situation seems to be based on the idea that this was either a scam or just DD being stupid.  Either way, nothing the mom should have any sympathy for.  And frankly, if that is what the other mom was thinking, after knowing my daughter for 1.5 years, then I think my negative feelings toward her are completely justified.

 

ETA, for the record, even young people just being stupid sometimes still deserve sympathy... and grace.  

 

Our little community is reeling from an 18yo accidental death last week. He was tired and instead of staying the night where he was, he decided to drive home. He then lost control of his car on a curve, rolled it, and died at the scene. I would much rather have a teen crash on my couch for the night than drive home tired or in bad weather or on nights known for drunk driving (New Year's), etc. I would also much rather have the teen stay the night than having their tired parent come get them.  

 

I would be extremely disappointed if the other parents in my kids' social circle made decisions based on appearances. I don't give one hoot what busy bodies might think or say.

[Wheres Toto]

I was pretty sure as a teen that I managed to snow my parents on some occasions. Looking back as an adult, however, I am not so sure that they didn't actually know what was going on and simply decided not to mention it. 

 

I know that I have not called out my children on everything they shouldn't have done. An experienced mom friend told me many years ago: "A mom does not need to have seen everything". Wise words indeed. 

 

This is basically my philosophy.   On occasion I may give them "the look" just to let them know they aren't fooling me, but let them go ahead anyway.

 

In the situation being discussed, I would have to be 110% without a doubt positive they were trying to pull one over on me before I'd decide to not give the benefit of the doubt.  I really really don't see what they would have hoped to gain by lying about her being tired.   If they wanted to have sex, there were easier ways.    I can't imagine that a generally good kid is going to decide to try and pull off some elaborate lie just to see her boyfriend over breakfast.    And I would strongly advise my kid to NOT get involved with a family that thinks that way about her (without a really good reason for thinking it, like her own past behavior, not some nebulous "teenagers lie" BS.)

[teachermom2834]

Sometimes perception is more relevant than reality. Who cares whether Goldberry's daughter was actually tired? She said she was. Goldberry thinks she was. Boyfriend's mom responded "not my problem".

 

Damage done. The rest of the details really are irrelevant. That's why my response would take the gf at her word.

 

I am very skeptical of teens. I do happen to be one who thinks teens are not generally reliable for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth (but neither are many adults). But, my dealings with teens come from a place of love, encouragement, and support even though I am not naive to the possibilities.

[Guest]

I did not think it was "horrible" for them to want me to come and get her. But it did affect my view of the mom in a negative way, and it sounds like many would agree with me. It was very uncaring of her toward DD, at a time when I would have thought there was caring there. As the girl she has known for almost 2 years, as the girl her son loves, and just as a mom in general toward a young person.

 

You mention you don't like overnight guests. That was NOT the case in this family, as described by the BF, they routinely have people hanging out there and/or staying over if they are there late. So obviously it was an issue specifically to her being a GF.

 

Saying this would be an obvious thing for a family that values chastity is not accurate. I would say there are quite a lot of conservative people, both on this board and IRL, that value chastity but do not equate sleeping under the same roof under specific circumstance as encouraging or endorsing sexual behavior. I have already said I would not endorse it in an "entertainment" kind of way (just for fun). But this was a different circumstance. No, it was not a clear cut emergency. It was an uncomfortable and awkward situation. The inflexibility in that situation was disturbing to me.

 

You clearly have never had the problem of getting too sleepy to drive when you "didn't plan on it". Other people (as well as statistics) are telling you it is very real. I am getting annoyed by you continuing to insist that this is either a scam or that DD is somehow incomprehensibly stupid and maybe shouldn't be driving. She has been driving this route for 2 years with no problems and utmost responsibility. In addition to her previously being sick (and no, she was not sick right then that day, she wasn't spreading disease) there were some other circumstances involved regarding how this played out. And yes, we did discuss it, but I absolutely saw how the circumstances led to what happened. We talked about how to apply this in the future. She did not deserve to be shamed and embarrassed as she was. You may not believe it and can't let go of either suspicion or judgment about it. That's fine. I'm her mom, and I know what happened. I'm not going any further trying to explain it. But part of your assessment of this situation seems to be based on the idea that this was either a scam or just DD being stupid. Either way, nothing the mom should have any sympathy for. And frankly, if that is what the other mom was thinking, after knowing my daughter for 1.5 years, then I think my negative feelings toward her are completely justified.

 

ETA, for the record, even young people just being stupid sometimes still deserve sympathy... and grace.

Goldberry, I'm not posting to goad you into defending your DD. I've only posted to further explain *myself* to the twenty or however many posters who think I'm a heartless, legalistic jerk for saying I would not let a grown young girl, my kid's love, spend the night because she was tired. Your initial post about this asked for an explanation (towards the general board) of whether or not the BF's mother's reaction was normal. My answer is: yes, I think it is normal for people who expect chastity before marriage. You have received gobs of support from people who agree with you that the boy's mom is a heartless jerk. Why does it matter that I don't agree?

 

And yes, I have had to drive many times under adverse circumstances, but my view is that: that's life. You mitigate what you can (i.e., don't drink too much, keep an eye on the weather, be aware that certain hazards may be present), and then you sometimes just have to drive anyway. In my world, there isn't always a solution where someone else can drive, or I can sleep where I happen to be. Sometimes I just have to drive under less-than-ideal circumstances.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Goldberry, I'm not posting to goad you into defending your DD. I've only posted to further explain *myself* to the twenty or however many posters who think I'm a heartless, legalistic jerk for saying I would not let a grown young girl, my kid's love, spend the night because she was tired. Your initial post about this asked for an explanation (towards the general board) of whether or not the BF's mother's reaction was normal. My answer is: yes, I think it is normal for people who expect chastity before marriage. You have received gobs of support from people who agree with you that the boy's mom is a heartless jerk. Why does it matter that I don't agree?

 

And yes, I have had to drive many times under adverse circumstances, but my view is that: that's life. You mitigate what you can (i.e., don't drink too much, keep an eye on the weather, be aware that certain hazards may be present), and then you sometimes just have to drive anyway. In my world, there isn't always a solution where someone else can drive, or I can sleep where I happen to be. Sometimes I just have to drive under less-than-ideal circumstances.

You still don't get that driving when sleepy is an issue, do you?

[Guest]

You still don't get that driving when sleepy is an issue, do you?

I know it can be, but I don't think it's a crisis, no. I have driven sleepy. Heck, when my oldest was a colicky baby, everything I did was sleepy. Are we really assuming that all adults who are tired must not drive?

[Mergath]

I know it can be, but I don't think it's a crisis, no. I have driven sleepy. Heck, when my oldest was a colicky baby, everything I did was sleepy. Are we really assuming that all adults who are tired must not drive?

 

No, but forcing someone to do something dangerous that could get them killed for no good reason is just stupid. And this wasn't an adult.

[Guest]

No, but forcing someone to do something dangerous that could get them killed for no good reason is just stupid. And this wasn't an adult.

She is 18 and an independent driver. And she was not forced. If she felt she was unable to drive (which she obviously did feel), she was able to have her parents come get her.

 

I just think it's laughable, all this alarm over being tired. The young adults I know often drive long distances, challenging roads, at late hours. Like, it happens all the time, when they go to concerts, night shift jobs, sports events, parties. My DD drives back to college in the evenings after breaks, 3 hours away. My niece drove to her college in evenings, six hours away. And - examples ad nauseum. It's sort of funny how some things with this thread have parallells to the real vs. Perceived risk thread.

[Guest]

So, once gain, dinner calls. And I don't expect I can contribute anything more meaningful to this theead, in fact, I think we passed that by several pages ago. So, have a nice night everybody.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

She is 18 and an independent driver. And she was not forced. If she felt she was unable to drive (which she obviously did feel), she was able to have her parents come get her.

 

I just think it's laughable, all this alarm over being tired. The young adults I know often drive long distances, challenging roads, at late hours. Like, it happens all the time, when they go to concerts, night shift jobs, sports events, parties. My DD drives back to college in the evenings after breaks, 3 hours away. My niece drove to her college in evenings, six hours away. And - examples ad nauseum. It's sort of funny how some things with this thread have parallells to the real vs. Perceived risk thread.

Good gravy. Driving when overly tired is a real risk and is the cause of thousands of accidents/deaths every year. At this point you seem to be actively trying to be willfully ignorant of that fact so you can justify your dogmatic (and strikingly inconsistent) position.

[Guest]

Good gravy. Driving when overly tired is a real risk and is the cause of thousands of accidents/deaths every year. At this point you seem to be actively trying to be willfully ignorant of that fact so you can justify your dogmatic (and strikingly inconsistent) position.

Good night, Chocolate Reign.

[Mergath]

She is 18 and an independent driver. And she was not forced. If she felt she was unable to drive (which she obviously did feel), she was able to have her parents come get her.

 

I just think it's laughable, all this alarm over being tired. The young adults I know often drive long distances, challenging roads, at late hours. Like, it happens all the time, when they go to concerts, night shift jobs, sports events, parties. My DD drives back to college in the evenings after breaks, 3 hours away. My niece drove to her college in evenings, six hours away. And - examples ad nauseum. It's sort of funny how some things with this thread have parallells to the real vs. Perceived risk thread.

 

When you and your child have been inches away from being killed by a tired teenage driver, it's somewhat less laughable. And this isn't some remote risk- people are injured or killed because they fall asleep at the wheel all the time. Since we're all about statistics this week, here's another one: There are 100,000 crashes each year caused primarily by people driving when they're tired. More than half of those involve drivers under the age of twenty-five. Link

 

[Joker]

Yeah, one night a teen driver drove home on a back road after a late game. He killed my dad and brother. That kid survived but we don't consider him that lucky since he has to live with it. I don't want my dc to be on either end of something like that. It's irresponsible to act like driving tired isn't a big deal, especially with your young drivers.

 

I don't get it, Quill. You seem to care more about how it looks to have a SO sleep over on a couch than you do about people's safety. It's mind boggling. 

 

[eternalsummer]

People used to think driving drunk was not a big deal either; personally, I'd take either a drunk driver or a tired driver over a texting driver, but my real preference is for none of the above.

[EmseB]

Didn't goldberry driver her dd home? Couldn't the boyfriend drive home a tired gf? Aren't there many other options other than spending the night?

Edited July 5, 2017 by EmseB

[Guest]

I just disagree with you guys, geez. The young lady HAD a ride home: her parents. I think it's pretty unlikely that all of you other parents of young adults have children never driving tired. There is even another theead currently happening, talking about college-aged kids coming and going with friends in and out, working long hours, etc.

 

I really don't know how I've become the dogpile target in this thread. I'm now on ignore, reportedly, by at least one poster to this thread who is THAT pissed off at me. I don't get it. I knew I shouldn't have joined this thread. That was why I didn't post my opinion initially to Tap, the OP.

[eternalsummer]

I know well enough not to intend a difference of opinion as a personal renunciation.  Of course she had a ride home; I don't think anyone would have said all the stuff about how driving tired is dangerous if it hadn't been implied/asserted that driving tired was no big deal.

 

I guess I just misunderstood what conservative Christians (some of them, anyway) meant by chastity.  We are a very conservative family (well to the right politically and socially of, I can guarantee, 99% of people on this forum) and I would not have guessed that chastity had anything to do with appearance instead of reality.  I thought the reason Christians didn't want people to sleep around before marriage (or during, hah) was because they (and I) thought having multiple sexual partners was destructive to overall personal and social harmony, diluting the marriage bond, etc., and that they also thought it was wrong Because God Said So.

 

Neither of those justifications would suggest anything about it being wrong because other people might have bad thoughts about you, though.  So I don't get why a situation where no sex or unacceptable contact would take place (with the girl in another room for the night) would have anything to do with chastity - there is no sex happening!  It is in fact less likely to be a situation with sexual contact than is a date where the two of them go to the movies or something.  

[eternalsummer]

This reminds me of a quote from The King of Attolia.  One character (a solider, Costis) is upset because he thinks his honor is in question among his comrades.  He knows he's done the right thing but he must keep it a secret for various political reasons.  He is expressing this dissatisfaction about his loss of honor to the king.  King reples:

 

“Oh, that," said the king with a shrug. "That isn't your honor, Costis. That's the public perception of your honor. It has nothing to do with anything important, except perhaps for manipulating fools who mistake honor for its bright, shiny trappings. You can always change the perceptions of fools.†
― Megan Whalen Turner, The King of Attolia

[EmseB]

The funny thing is that I'd probably personally let the girl stay over. I just don't think Quill's opinion is that egregious, nor do I think that if the girl was truly stranded or in trouble that Quill would throw her out on her tail. She doesn't strike me as that kind of person and would be a good judge of what was going on between the gf and bf.

 

I do stand by the opinion that if the friend of any gender or relationship was unsafe to drive and just getting over an illness that I would feel more comfortable if his/her parents took her home because of possibility of the kid being really sick. I'm barely able to know how to treat my own kids in a situation like that.

Edited July 5, 2017 by EmseB

[Pen]

That's downright Puritanical if people are going to that extreme to observe your driveway and speculate and pronounce judgment. Is it really 2017?

 

 

It is 2017.

 

It is also a biggish world with many different attitudes, mores, and so on in different locales.

 

This isn't an area where I'd expect stoning. Though some places in the world do have that. And some people in some places of USA are calling for return to more in that direction, whether old fashioned puritanical Christianity or Muslim or other things.

 

Here though, even just thinking about the kids--    Ds returned to public school this past year. There are around 100 kids total in the high school. Everyone pretty much knows everyone and gossip flies very fast. So if soandso's car were to be here it'd probably be seen by others in that very small school, and word would get around.  Some people are on farms much more remote from neighbors than we are, but we have around 8 kids from the school on our street, and a relatively short driveway.

 

Maybe not.  Like I said, haven't actually got there yet.

[Frances]

The funny thing is that I'd probably personally let the girl stay over. I just don't think Quill's opinion is that egregious, nor do I think that if the girl was truly stranded or in trouble that Quill would throw her out on her tail. She doesn't strike me as that kind of person and would be a good judge of what was going on between the gf and bf.

 

I do stand by the opinion that if the friend of any gender or relationship was unsafe to drive and just getting over an illness that I would feel more comfortable if his/her parents took her home because of possibility of the kid being really sick. I'm barely able to know how to treat my own kids in a situation like that.

But your children are very young. Goldberry's daughter is 18, a young adult, so obviously capable of assessing that she was too tired to drive, but not so sick that she had to be at home. The situation would be different with a young child.

[mamaraby]

This thread has brought to mind a scene from the movie "French Kiss" where the concierge tells Kate, "Thank you, Madame, for that fascinating lesson in our cultural differences." in a very snooty Fench concierge sort of way.

 

I often stayed at my now dh's parent's house for the weekend when we were in college and before we got married. He did the same at my house. Dh's parents are quite conservative Baptists who are all about avoiding the appearance of evil and yet in spite of all that never displayed the kind of attitudes shown here. Then again, they never would have seen their son if I hadn't been able to come along since we went to college in one state, he lived in another state, and my family was from another state. I guarantee he would have chosen either to stay on campus or come visit my family. I'm not sure what message me staying at their house sent other than dh's girlfriend had come to visit.

 

We went to a very conservative Christian college with gender segregated dorms and plenty of purity culture flying around to boot. At school we often saw guys in their PJs come down to breakfast in the dining hall or with otherwise questionable hygiene (rumpled hair and clothes). At no point did I find any of those things the slightest bit thrilling or attractive.

 

I no longer value chastity in teens/young adults or the whole "avoiding the appearance of evil" gymnastics. I don't care what busybodies think or say about me. Not their rodeo, not their concern. To me, the "sin" of the nosy neighbor and gossip is far more concerning than how what happens at my home appears to people who clearly need to consider far more healthy and productive hobbies. I have no truck with people who attempt to control me with their actions or attitudes.

[eternalsummer]

Even if they do find sleep-rumpledness attractive or thrilling - I am just not sure what the concern is.  They've been dating for 1.5 years, they're not having sex, there is no sexual contact in looking at someone in their pjs (rather less than looking at them in a bathing suit, or shorts, or what have you).  Does chastity mean not being attracted to another person until you marry them?  How would that even work?

[Pen]

It is none of people's business what cars are parked in my driveway, and if they have nothing better to do than speculate about the sleeping arrangements in my house, they need to get a life.

I have no patience for busybodies.

Why would I need to announce to the neighborhood who sleeps where? The idea is bizarre.

 

 

You certainly would not need to.  So far as I can tell you live in a place where this is probably a non-issue. It seems to be a non-issue for you and your own family as well.

 

I have certainly lived in places (such as London, New York, Los Angeles) where this would be a non-issue.

 

I now live in a place that is ...   hard to convey to a person who has not experienced it.  And you would probably not care even if you did live here because you would not want to live in such an area anyway....   But one person's idea of "busybodies" could be perceived by others as belonging to a community.  Think Lake Woebegone, sort of.

 

I'd surely rather have a kid crash on my couch than on the road though, and since there was a recent road crash where a teen got freaked out driving and hit a utility pole, this might be a good time to make that point to people, so that if or when the time comes, that attitude on my part is already known.

[eternalsummer]

Furthermore, I'd make the argument that if you are concerned primarily about what looks good, consider that kicking the girl out doesn't look good.  It looks like you can't trust her or your son, implying that they're not as concerned about chastity as you are.  It looks like you care more about appearances than the reality of the relationships.  These are not good looks.

[EmseB]

But your children are very young. Goldberry's daughter is 18, a young adult, so obviously capable of assessing that she was too tired to drive, but not so sick that she had to be at home.

Right, but goldberry's daughter doesn't get to make that judgement for the bf's mom (who would be hosting her and having to deal with any issues) who has to be comfortable with her staying the night.

 

"It's okay, I was sick and I feel unsafe to drive, but I'm fine staying at your house," is incredibly rude and presumptuous. The only reason it *wasn't* rudeness on her part was because her bf invited her, but he put his mom in an awful position, as evidenced by how many people think she's an awful human in this thread.

Edited July 5, 2017 by EmseB

[Bluegoat]

I think there is a big difference between driving when you are a little tired, and saying someone who says she is too tired to drive should just suck it up and do it anyway.

[goldberry]

I just think it's laughable, all this alarm over being tired.

 

 It's sort of funny how some things with this thread have parallells to the real vs. Perceived risk thread.

 

Quill, no one is talking about just normal "being tired".  I'm sorry you feel like you are being jumped on, but I think it's just shock that there are still people who don't know how serious this issue is.  

 

Totally aside from this thread, please take some time to research this on your own.  You might find out that it is your "perceived threat" that is not aligned to the real threat.  And your tone is offensive to the numerous people right on our board who have been affected by this. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think there is a big difference between driving when you are a little tired, and saying someone who says she is too tired to drive should just suck it up and do it anyway.

+1

Also combined with "driving tired is no big deal!"

[ChocolateReignRemix]

FTR I completed a 600+ mile drive with younger DS today. I pulled over at two different rest stops for a quick nap when I noticed I was drowsy.

We both also visited the bathroom and fortunately neither of us was abducted!

[Frances]

You certainly would not need to. So far as I can tell you live in a place where this is probably a non-issue. It seems to be a non-issue for you and your own family as well.

 

I have certainly lived in places (such as London, New York, Los Angeles) where this would be a non-issue.

 

I now live in a place that is ... hard to convey to a person who has not experienced it. And you would probably not care even if you did live here because you would not want to live in such an area anyway.... But one person's idea of "busybodies" could be perceived by others as belonging to a community. Think Lake Woebegone, sort of.

 

I'd surely rather have a kid crash on my couch than on the road though, and since there was a recent road crash where a teen got freaked out driving and hit a utility pole, this might be a good time to make that point to people, so that if or when the time comes, that attitude on my part is already known.

I grew up in a place like you describe and there is a wonderful sense of community and neighbors looking out for each other. But, there is also a lot of gossip and speculation. And as far as I know, those are not considered Christian values. I would think that Christians living in these types of places would be trying to teach their children not to engage in such behavior, but it would seem difficult to model and do if one was also stressing out about appearances and what others might think instead of focusing on reality. Edited July 5, 2017 by Frances

[Bluegoat]

I grew up in a place like you describe and there is a wonderful sense of community and neighbors looking out for each other. But, there is also a lot of gossip and speculation. And as far as I know, those are not considered Christian values. I would think that Christians living in these types of places would be trying to teach their children not to engage in such behavior, but it would seem difficult to model and do if one was also stressing out about appearances and what others might think instead of focusing on reality.

 

That's my experience too.  Often knowing what's going on with people isn't about judging or gossiping.  But it makes it a temptation for ome people. 

 

I know some people who might say what they do isn't gossip, and they are wrong.  But they'd not see gossip as ok for Christians.

[Audrey]

FTR I completed a 600+ mile drive with younger DS today. I pulled over at two different rest stops for a quick nap when I noticed I was drowsy.

We both also visited the bathroom and fortunately neither of us was abducted!

 

That you know of...

:leaving:

Edited July 5, 2017 by Audrey

[goldberry]

"It's okay, I was sick and I feel unsafe to drive, but I'm fine staying at your house," is incredibly rude and presumptuous. The only reason it *wasn't* rudeness on her part was because her bf invited her, but he put his mom in an awful position, as evidenced by how many people think she's an awful human in this thread.

 

She was not unsafe to drive because she was sick.  She was not sick, she just got over being sick.  Am I really the only one in the world, who goes back to work after an illness, pretty much fine, but by the end of the day at 5 pm I'm ready to go home and crawl straight into bed?

 

She got off school.  BF met her at college and they took his car out.  She was riding as a passenger in his car most of the evening.  At the end of the night he dropped her off back at her car, at the college.  As she started the drive home, she felt like she couldn't keep her eyes open and focused on the highway.  She pulled off the highway to go to the 7-11.  BF was following her that part of the trip and he exited also to see what was going on. 

 

I have driven tired.  DD has driven tired.  I have also stopped at a hotel on a multi-state trip when I didn't plan on it, because my eyes were closing and I knew I wasn't safe to drive.  I had zero problem going to pick her up.  That was not an issue at all.

 

I am saying I would never, in a million years, reacted to a young person the way this mom reacted to her.  No, I'm not saying she is a horrible person.  But she doesn't have the same care for my daughter that I have for her son, or for any number of DD's close friends. I also believe that she very likely she was suspicious and doubtful of DD without any basis (and no, I don't think it was the way everyone would feel). That was revealed to me, and it affected my view of her.  That's it. She came to DD's graduation party.  I was polite and gracious to her. I would never be otherwise.  End of story.

[Guest]

Quill, no one is talking about just normal "being tired". I'm sorry you feel like you are being jumped on, but I think it's just shock that there are still people who don't know how serious this issue is.

 

Totally aside from this thread, please take some time to research this on your own. You might find out that it is your "perceived threat" that is not aligned to the real threat. And your tone is offensive to the numerous people right on our board who have been affected by this.

 

Never mind.

[Pam in CT]

I'm really, really marveling at this idea that the neighbors are counting cars and surmising who's sleeping in what beds or couches in what rooms.

 

 

While we have fairly old kids (14-22) and have always had a fairly open house with frequent visitors, we were only recently faced with the OP situation quite recently, over Memorial Day weekend.  Our eldest (22, recently graduated from college, lives in New York) came up Friday evening with her boyfriend (also lives in New York, separate apartment).  They took the train out, I picked them up at the station, they had Friday dinner with us, then stayed over, so they could borrow one of our cars for the rest of the long weekend. 

 

So, from the neighbors' perspective, no strange cars in the driveway at all, though a visiting boyfriend did stay over.

 

Whereas, last weekend, my brother came by, left his (small) car in the driveway and took my husband's (larger) car because he needed to haul a bunch of furniture... so from the neighbors' perspective, an out-of-state car in the driveway, though in fact there was no visitor.

 

And last night, my son's (male) friend drove over and they stayed up binge-watching LOTR.  So from the neighbors' perspective, a strange car, though no BF or GF.  

 

And on and on.  Do neighbors really know who is staying over every time there's a non-family car in the driveway?  What family member they're visiting?  What their relationship is?  Let alone what the sleeping arrangements are?

 

I'm quite fond of my neighbors, and have kept an eye on their house when they've been away (as they have ours); but I truly can't imagine keeping tabs on the cars in their driveway when they're home, let alone speculating on what bed or couch their visitors are sleeping in.  Do people really do that?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm really, really marveling at this idea that the neighbors are counting cars and surmising who's sleeping in what beds or couches in what rooms.

 

 

While we have fairly old kids (14-22) and have always had a fairly open house with frequent visitors, we were only recently faced with the OP situation quite recently, over Memorial Day weekend. Our eldest (22, recently graduated from college, lives in New York) came up Friday evening with her boyfriend (also lives in New York, separate apartment). They took the train out, I picked them up at the station, they had Friday dinner with us, then stayed over, so they could borrow one of our cars for the rest of the long weekend.

 

So, from the neighbors' perspective, no strange cars in the driveway at all, though a visiting boyfriend did stay over.

 

Whereas, last weekend, my brother came by, left his (small) car in the driveway and took my husband's (larger) car because he needed to haul a bunch of furniture... so from the neighbors' perspective, an out-of-state car in the driveway, though in fact there was no visitor.

 

And last night, my son's (male) friend drove over and they stayed up binge-watching LOTR. So from the neighbors' perspective, a strange car, though no BF or GF.

 

And on and on. Do neighbors really know who is staying over every time there's a non-family car in the driveway? What family member they're visiting? What their relationship is? Let alone what the sleeping arrangements are?

 

I'm quite fond of my neighbors, and have kept an eye on their house when they've been away (as they have ours); but I truly can't imagine keeping tabs on the cars in their driveway when they're home, let alone speculating on what bed or couch their visitors are sleeping in. Do people really do that?

Normal people don't.

[abba12]

I was 17 when DH and I became engaged. Within two months of the engagement, my parents had a very messy divorce. I wasn't able to live with either for various reasons, so I was, for all intents and purposes, homeless. 

 

I wasn't allowed to sleep at my fiances family's home even for one night when we were first trying to work out what the hell I was going to do. We could be out and about alone all we wanted (while we didn't have sex, plenty happened that probably shouldn't have in cars and other places), but, I couldn't sleep at the opposite end of a huge home with 8 kids the night I was kicked out of my mothers house, because we might sneak into each others rooms. There was no 'others might see' going on, they lived in the country with their house non-visible from the road. No sibling issues, the kids knew what had happened. But, for pure legalism, I had to find a couch in an acquaintances home to crash onto at 10pm that night. 

 

I ended up bouncing between a few peoples houses, and avoiding his family's home pretty widely, in a holding pattern until the wedding in 4 months time.

 

I agree with the sentiment that boyfriend girlfriend sleepovers aren't to be encouraged. I would not allow one to be planned. But knowing how shamed and alone and helpless I felt, when I just wanted to be near the only person in my life I felt safe with at that moment, who I was engaged to marry with a date set for 4 months later... Obviously this was all a ruse to get into bed with him right? Even though we could have made tea a thousand times before this at my house, the car, and other places we were alone in for hours at a time. Right... Anyway, for this reason, I have no intentions of turning away a BF/GF who needs a place to crash just because they're romantically involved. I don't want anyone to feel the way I felt that night. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by abba12

[EmseB]

I am saying I would never, in a million years, reacted to a young person the way this mom reacted to her. No, I'm not saying she is a horrible person. But she doesn't have the same care for my daughter that I have for her son, or for any number of DD's close friends. I also believe that she very likely she was suspicious and doubtful of DD without any basis (and no, I don't think it was the way everyone would feel). That was revealed to me, and it affected my view of her.

I think that is a separate issue then to the your daughter not being able to sleep over. There are probably about a dozen (at least!) nice ways to handle it without being offensive or treating her poorly.

[unsinkable]

This might be just the right place to bring up a situation that I totally did not understand. DD18 and boyfriend 19 both still live at home and both our families don't approve of premarital sex. Both young adults are on board with this. I will add for background that BF is the oldest of several kids still at home, DD is an only. DD and BF have been dating fairly seriously for about 1.5 years and are talking marriage.

 

We live about 45 minutes apart. BF's family lives "in town" and we live in a rural area at the other end of a rather long,windy, dark road. DD is normally always going down there to visit since there is more to do in town. Not long ago, DD was just getting over being sick. She was out with BF close to his house, and she called to say she stayed out too late and didn't realize how tired she was, and she was worried about the 45 minute long windy drive home. BF says, oh, I'm sure you can stay at our house, we have people stay over all the time. (There was, of course, no insinuation of room-sharing or anything else, DD was expecting to crash on the couch.)

 

BF's mom called me a few minutes later and said that DD could NOT stay at her house and that I needed to find some other way to get her home. I was totally shocked over this. I would never in a million years have hesitated to have a friend of my kid's stay over in that situation. If it was a new BF that I didn't know, I could see I might reconsider. But DD knows the family and they have been dating 1.5 years. I confess I felt very angry and hurt that another mom that KNOWS my kid would feel that way. DH and I went and got her, DH drove her car back. So about 2 hours total, from 11-1.

 

I was quite cranky and tried to understand... I had another friend tell me it was because she had other kids at home, and having a girlfriend sleep at the house wouldn't be acceptable. Is that a normal feeling even in this situation? Two young adults that have spent 1.5 years abiding by some very strict moral boundaries, and both good and trustworthy kids? And one kid too tired to drive? Would that still be considered a sleepover to some people?

So what did the mom specifically say about WHY your DD couldn't stay? You don't say here and I looked at your other posts and I don't see what her reasoning was.

[Tammi K]

I quit parenting based on how things look to others a long time ago. I'm much happier now. 

 

:iagree:  AMEN!

 

[heartlikealion]

At different times while attending university my sisters and I brought home guests. The guests got their own sleeping space. I remember one guy (sister's bf) sleeping on a futon in our office area. I brought a bf home before but my oldest sister had moved out by then so he slept in her room. I also brought home guests I wasn't dating (I think a girlfriend and guy friend came home for Thanksgiving with me. Their families didn't live in America) and I guess we had enough rooms or someone used the futon or pull out couch. I don't remember.

 

I haven't read all the comments.

[goldberry]

So what did the mom specifically say about WHY your DD couldn't stay? You don't say here and I looked at your other posts and I don't see what her reasoning was.

 

She didn't.  She called me directly and said DD was not able to drive home and could I come and get her. I did.  I found out later that BF went in another room with the mom and came out and told DD she couldn't stay.  He just said "My mom said your parents need to come and get you."

[Renthead Mommy]

I'm really, really marveling at this idea that the neighbors are counting cars and surmising who's sleeping in what beds or couches in what rooms.

 

 

 

 

I'm quite fond of my neighbors, and have kept an eye on their house when they've been away (as they have ours); but I truly can't imagine keeping tabs on the cars in their driveway when they're home, let alone speculating on what bed or couch their visitors are sleeping in.  Do people really do that?

 

 

I know, the car thing is cracking me up. 

 

In our town, you could not park on the street overnight.  Because there was not enough room in our driveway, my brother and I parked our cars in the street about five houses down in the next town.   But they had to be moved every day, so more than a day didn't work. 

 

Everytime I flew out to visit my dad or my grandparents, went away with friends, or went away with bf, I left my car in his driveway.  Usually for a few days.  Often when his father/stepmother were also gone (they ran a travel tour group so were gone often).   

 

Oh the scandal the neighbors must have been imagined! LOL! 

[Twolittleboys]

She didn't.  She called me directly and said DD was not able to drive home and could I come and get her. I did.  I found out later that BF went in another room with the mom and came out and told DD she couldn't stay.  He just said "My mom said your parents need to come and get you."

Well, in that case I would give her the benefit of the doubt. As I said before, if the reason was some legalistic "unmarried people should not sleep under the same roof" or distrust of your daughter, it would negatively impact my impression of her (and if it was my daughter might make me wish for a different husband for her).

 

However, I can imagine a number of scenarios in which the refusal would be understandable. Maybe there were some serious family problems going on and it would have been REALLY inconvenient/problematic to have someone stay over that night. In that case I think it would have been okay to ask for someone to come pick her up as it a) did not endanger your daughter and b) maybe because the relationship is a closer one and it didn't seem as rude as if it had been a stranger.

 

Obviously, we don't know if there was some serious reason for the refusal but there could have been so it might be best to extend grace here as well.

[FaithManor]

It is none of people's business what cars are parked in my driveway, and if they have nothing better to do than speculate about the sleeping arrangements in my house, they need to get a life.

I have no patience for busybodies.

Why would I need to announce to the neighborhood who sleeps where? The idea is bizarre.

Yup! Blizzard world...down the rabbit hole to Alice in Wonderland.

 

The last person in the world I would care about having an opinion of my life would be THAT kind of neighbor.

[Murphy101]

She didn't. She called me directly and said DD was not able to drive home and could I come and get her. I did. I found out later that BF went in another room with the mom and came out and told DD she couldn't stay. He just said "My mom said your parents need to come and get you."

Given that, combined with they have known each other a year or so and the family is normally quite hospitable, I wouldn't presume it's bc of some moral conflict then.

 

It sounds like they had something else going on that made the mom uninclined to have sudden over night company and since they made sure her parents were coming to get her vs encouraging her to drive too tired or whatever other hazard, I'd give benefit of the doubt.

 

Is there a particuliar reason you presume an ill-will reasoning towards your daughter?

 

ETA: I don't understand why you think they don't have a care for her? They made sure she wasn't driving too tired. She was tired, they didn't want over night company, so they made sure she had a ride. I am confused bc it seems like you are actually just ticked off that you and your Dh had to go get her and are mad bc if she had wanted company over, you wouldn't have had to. I don't understand that view. I get a call from/for my kids - I just go and figure this is life as a mom.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Murphy101