How do you handle boyfriends/girlfriends staying the night at your house?

[Guest]

He's 19. He doesn't need them to approve, and the alternative was for his girlfriend to be put in a dangerous situation or to inconvenience her parents for some stupid legalism.

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

PSS: I recently disallowed my 17yo from spending the night over a *platonic* girl-friend's house, with others, after a party. It is not about whether or not there is hanky-panky going on, although there could be. It is because that does not look well to me. Clearly, not all parents share my view, as some others were perfectly fine with this arrangement, including the young woman's father. So I had to be the mom making the unpopular, uncool decision. DS was welcome to stay until midnight, at which point I said I would come get him, and I even said I would bring him back the next morning if it was so important to him to be there for donuts. But no staying the night. It looks inappropriate to me.

[marbel]

BF is 19, but his parent's didn't want HIM driving that far that late.  He would have to drive there and back obviously.   I thought it was weird too honestly.

 

ETA, this board is sometimes a "self-check" for me, to get other opinions from differing family cultures and see if maybe I'm the one being unreasonable.  You guys always step up to the task! ;)

 

They didn't want their son driving it, but they were OK with your daughter driving it?

 

I don't buy the argument that it was poor planning on your daughter's part.  People can't always plan perfectly.  Someone who has been sick can feel better and then overdo it and get overtired or become sick again.  Even adults find themselves in precarious positions now and then.  

 

What if the girl's car had broken down?  Would there be suspicion that she did something to cause it to happen?

 

I think if kids/young adults are well-behaved and trustworthy, a one-off weird situation like this should be handled with grace and flexibility.   I can't say exactly what I'd do in the situation, having never encountered it, but I think I would find a way to make it work so no one had to drive late at night/while overtired/on dark dangerous roads. 

[goldberry]

For me it was a "mom" issue.  DD's long term friends get sort of adopted in our house.  I feel motherly toward them.  Of course the well-being of my daughter is first, but I wouldn't view one of them (even a BF) sleeping on our couch as damaging DD's or anyone else's well being.  I would and have felt protective over her friends, it would just never have occurred to me to either send one of them out too sleepy to drive OR to call their parents to come get them.  I was honestly surprised another mom would treat a young person like that.

 

With a BF situation, would I probably be listening for squeaks and floorboards all night?  Sure.  Not entirely stupid.  But would I *assume* that the whole thing was done with nefarious intentions, when the two have been independently committed to a chaste relationship up until that point?  No.  And honestly I think it's a little over the top to *assume* that, unless previous situations warranted it. 

 

Editing to add that I too, actually, don't think it "looks good" under most circumstances.  I would not approve it for a party like a PP described.  This wasn't a planned situation, and I would be flexible especially if I thought safety was involved - and not just safety of MY kid, but either kid.

 

Changed "listening to" to "listening for".

Edited July 3, 2017 by goldberry

[Scarlett]

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

PSS: I recently disallowed my 17yo from spending the night over a *platonic* girl-friend's house, with others, after a party. It is not about whether or not there is hanky-panky going on, although there could be. It is because that does not look well to me. Clearly, not all parents share my view, as some others were perfectly fine with this arrangement, including the young woman's father. So I had to be the mom making the unpopular, uncool decision. DS was welcome to stay until midnight, at which point I said I would come get him, and I even said I would bring him back the next morning if it was so important to him to be there for donuts. But no staying the night. It looks inappropriate to me.

Yep.

[marbel]

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

PSS: I recently disallowed my 17yo from spending the night over a *platonic* girl-friend's house, with others, after a party. It is not about whether or not there is hanky-panky going on, although there could be. It is because that does not look well to me. Clearly, not all parents share my view, as some others were perfectly fine with this arrangement, including the young woman's father. So I had to be the mom making the unpopular, uncool decision. DS was welcome to stay until midnight, at which point I said I would come get him, and I even said I would bring him back the next morning if it was so important to him to be there for donuts. But no staying the night. It looks inappropriate to me.

 

OK I'm confused.  Earlier in the thread you said that your daughter's boyfriend stays at your house sometimes, and she at his.  In separate rooms.   

 

I'm not being snarky when I say that this post and that earlier one seem entirely contradictory.   What's the difference in the situations?  

 

BTW I agree about the co-ed slumber party.  

[Sneezyone]

This hasn't come up for us yet. There will be no BF/GF sleepovers while in HS tho and both of my kids will graduate at 18+. Once they go off to college (and they will leave, come hell or high water) and establish their own households, we will honor whatever sleeping arrangements they have in their homes. If they live together already, they can share during a visit with us. If they don't cohabitate, we'll prepare separate rooms. By the time this is even an issue, youngest will be 15. I don't think we'll need to worry about his tender sensibilities.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Sneezyone

[regentrude]

We live about 45 minutes apart.  BF's family lives "in town" and we live in a rural area at the other end of a rather long,windy, dark road.  DD is normally always going down there to visit since there is more to do in town.  Not long ago, DD was just getting over being sick.  She was out with BF close to his house, and she called to say she stayed out too late and didn't realize how tired she was, and she was worried about the 45 minute long windy drive home.  BF says, oh, I'm sure you can stay at our house, we have people stay over all the time.  (There was, of course, no insinuation of room-sharing or anything else, DD was expecting to crash on the couch.)  

 

BF's mom called me a few minutes later and said that DD could NOT stay at her house and that I needed to find some other way to get her home.  I was totally shocked over this.  I would never in a million years have hesitated to have a friend of my kid's stay over in that situation. 

 

I consider this very inhospitable behavior, and setting a bad precedent because it encourages a young person to drive when she feels that she is not fit to do so.  

If a friend of my children (or a friend of mine) felt unable to drive for whatever reason, I would discourage them from driving in a state where they did not feel fully competent and offer them a bed. It does not matter whether this is illness, tiredness, or the consumption of substances that impair reaction time - if you cannot safely drive, you are welcome to stay at our house. And no, I would not put the onus on their parent to come get them, because this, again, would encourage the young person to potentially drive in an impaired state to avoid involving parents.

 

It is easy to discourage "going ons", and it is easy to explain to young children that this is a special situation that warrants an exception from the rules. I would not consider hosting in these circumstances a "sleepover".

The behavior was inconsiderate and unkind.

Edited July 3, 2017 by regentrude

[Frances]

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

.

I have to say that I'm very surprised at your response. What if it was bad weather that came on suddenly? Would you force someone to drive in order to avoid whatever it is you are trying to avoid? I honestly can't wrap my head around assuming the young girl was lying in order to sneakily spend the night and get some vicarious thrill. I can tell you that was most certainly not the case when my college boyfriend's parents let me spend the night due to bad weather conditions. If anything, it was embarrassing, certainly not exciting or thrilling. Edited July 3, 2017 by Frances

[Ravin]

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

PSS: I recently disallowed my 17yo from spending the night over a *platonic* girl-friend's house, with others, after a party. It is not about whether or not there is hanky-panky going on, although there could be. It is because that does not look well to me. Clearly, not all parents share my view, as some others were perfectly fine with this arrangement, including the young woman's father. So I had to be the mom making the unpopular, uncool decision. DS was welcome to stay until midnight, at which point I said I would come get him, and I even said I would bring him back the next morning if it was so important to him to be there for donuts. But no staying the night. It looks inappropriate to me.

 

 

With this level of restriction, my DD wouldn't be allowed to spend the night at anyone's house or have anyone spend the night at our house, ever.

 

As it is, the only distinction we make for her between someone she is "dating" and other friends is that she cannot stay overnight in the same room as the person she is dating. Instead, the guest sleeps on the living room couch. 

[teachermom2834]

If I really thought the girl was just being sneaky to spend the night I would still err on side of safety and kindness. If I thought that , I would let her stay and I would likely stay up or take shifts with dh or something and then the next day tell my ds privately that that situation is never to happen again. EVER (if I felt that strongly but I don't).

 

I think often of how a scenario will seem years down the line and ponder if having my way right that minute is worth it. Usually I choose to give grace and be kind.

[Joker]

I quit parenting based on how things look to others a long time ago. I'm much happier now. 

[Guest]

OK I'm confused. Earlier in the thread you said that your daughter's boyfriend stays at your house sometimes, and she at his. In separate rooms.

 

I'm not being snarky when I say that this post and that earlier one seem entirely contradictory. What's the difference in the situations?

 

BTW I agree about the co-ed slumber party.

My dd has not spent the night at BF's family's house and BF has not spent the night at our house, but each has been on vacations with the other family. You follow me? So, yes, if we are going on a trip to our beach house, some times, BF has come with us and spent the night, on a separate floor; partially because this is more seemly *to me* and partially because there are littler cousins hanging around. So, there might be a bunch of boys and the BF on the lower level, while DD and some of the girl cousins are on the upper floor. Also, DD has been with their family on vacations.

 

Meanwhile, BF and DD have been in college and BF has lived in his own apartment for the past four years. I expect DD has spent the night there, but that would be Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It isn't under my control and I'm neither going to endorse it, nor weirdly attempt to prevent it from my position of non-control.

[zoobie]

Yes he does, because he still lives at home. My DD is 20, but she is still dependant upon us. She cannot just do whatever the hell she wants.

 

Personally, given the scenario goldberry wrote, I would do exactly the same thing as the mom of the young man, because I would have a notion that DD accidentally-on-purpose stayed out late so she would get to sleep over*. I agree with goldberry's friend that having other litlle kids in the house makes a difference, though that may not be the entire reason. And *I* would be unlikely to drive her home myself because I am not a night owl and I would feel like I had been cornered into making that drive myself because the young lady planned poorly.

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

PSS: I recently disallowed my 17yo from spending the night over a *platonic* girl-friend's house, with others, after a party. It is not about whether or not there is hanky-panky going on, although there could be. It is because that does not look well to me. Clearly, not all parents share my view, as some others were perfectly fine with this arrangement, including the young woman's father. So I had to be the mom making the unpopular, uncool decision. DS was welcome to stay until midnight, at which point I said I would come get him, and I even said I would bring him back the next morning if it was so important to him to be there for donuts. But no staying the night. It looks inappropriate to me.

Well, that kind of distrust and assumed shenanigans and concern with appearances over people is what made me move out as soon as the dorms opened and not move back home again.

[Guest]

I have to say that I'm very surprised at your response. What if it was bad weather that came on suddenly? Would you force someone to drive in order to avoid whatever it is you are trying to avoid? I honestly can't wrap my head around assuming the young girl was lying in order to sneakily spend the night and get some vicarious thrill. I can tell you that was most certainly not the case when my college boyfriend's parents let me spend the night due to bad weather conditions. If anything, it was embarrassing, certainly not exciting or thrilling.

Because I don't give a lot of credit to, "Oh, wow, I just realized I'm sleepy and I have somehow forgotten that my drive home is long, windy and dark!" I am not saying the girl 100%, definitely arranged it so that she could get a kick out of sleeping over, but I don't think that is an obscure possibility, either. IMO, when grown kids begin taking the responsibility to use a car, they are also assuming the responsibility of paying attention to the need to return home. I expect my kids to pay attention to the weather, for example, especially if bad weather is forecast. I badgered my DD to drive home one time when she was around 17, because she was over the BF's house and it was beginning to sleet. She was 100% pissed off at me for "making" her come home. For all I know, she *wanted* to get iced-in at his house by feigning not attending to the weather. Being mindful of the need to return home is part of the priviledge of driving independantly.

 

How can it be bad behavior on the part of the young man's parents that they expected HER PARENTS to come get her or make arrangements for her to return home? My young drivers have first the responsibility to get themselves safely home from wherever they are, but secondly, if that cannot be accomplished, the onus is upon ME, not whatever other adults they happen to be attempting to impose upon at the moment. If MY child cannot safely drive home from where they are, then getting them home is MY responsibility - why would it be the man's parent's problem? She doesn't have some sort of *right* to sleep over because she finds herself surprised to be tired and not looking forward to the dark, long ride back.

 

Look, I'm not saying there is NO possible instance under which I would let the GF/BF sleep over (obviously, since I make exceptions for cpvacations). I'm saying this is one instance when I expect I would do exactly as the young man's mom did. The young lady was imposing upon them in my opinion.

[marbel]

My dd has not spent the night at BF's family's house and BF has not spent the night at our house, but each has been on vacations with the other family. You follow me? So, yes, if we are going on a trip to our beach house, some times, BF has come with us and spent the night, on a separate floor; partially because this is more seemly *to me* and partially because there are littler cousins hanging around. So, there might be a bunch of boys and the BF on the lower level, while DD and some of the girl cousins are on the upper floor. Also, DD has been with their family on vacations.

 

Meanwhile, BF and DD have been in college and BF has lived in his own apartment for the past four years. I expect DD has spent the night there, but that would be Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It isn't under my control and I'm neither going to endorse it, nor weirdly attempt to prevent it from my position of non-control.

 

OK, got it.  Thanks for clarifying.  But, I still don't see it as any different.  I get that there are different sleeping arrangements.  But it's still a "sleepover" (for lack of a better term).  It still seems very inconsistent to me.  

 

ETA:

 

 

*P.S. About sleeping over: to me, it is not about whether they are going to sneak off and have s€x, although that is one possibility. A lot of people, especially young women, find even just the idea that they spent the night quite thrilling. Seeing your sweetheart in a sleep-rumpled state and eating bagles together is thrilling for many young women and some young men. It suggests an intimacy that I don't plan on endorsing until they are married or pretty darn old. I'm not sure exactly where the age line is for me, but it's not 18, 19, or 20.

 

And this can't/doesn't happen at your beach house?   They aren't eating breakfast together in their sleep-rumpled state?

Edited July 3, 2017 by marbel

[TeenagerMom]

In the case of Goldberry's DD, yeah, I would have allowed the GF to stay the night and sleep on the couch.  Or boot one of the kids out of their rooms so she could have their room.

 

I'm one that said I wouldn't allow sleepovers in the same room with my young adults, but if someone occasionally needed to bunk on the couch, I wouldn't care.  DD's BF has traveled with us before. We just put the teen boys in one room and us w/DD in another.  If they are young adults and traveled with us, I wouldn't care if they shared a room.  Like I said before, I'm just not running a B&B. I tend to walk to the bathroom in my underwear at night, down the hall, and have to pass DD's room. No way, no how. At any rate, DD's BF will have his own place come August so after she turns 18 if she wants to stay the night up there, that's up to her.

[teachermom2834]

Because I don't give a lot of credit to, "Oh, wow, I just realized I'm sleepy and I have somehow forgotten that my drive home is long, windy and dark!" I am not saying the girl 100%, definitely arranged it so that she could get a kick out of sleeping over, but I don't think that is an obscure possibility, either. IMO, when grown kids begin taking the responsibility to use a car, they are also assuming the responsibility of paying attention to the need to return home. I expect my kids to pay attention to the weather, for example, especially if bad weather is forecast. I badgered my DD to drive home one time when she was around 17, because she was over the BF's house and it was beginning to sleet. She was 100% pissed off at me for "making" her come home. For all I know, she *wanted* to get iced-in at his house by feigning not attending to the weather. Being mindful of the need to return home is part of the priviledge of driving independantly.

 

How can it be bad behavior on the part of the young man's parents that they expected HER PARENTS to come get her or make arrangements for her to return home? My young drivers have first the responsibility to get themselves safely home from wherever they are, but secondly, if that cannot be accomplished, the onus is upon ME, not whatever other adults they happen to be attempting to impose upon at the moment. If MY child cannot safely drive home from where they are, then getting them home is MY responsibility - why would it be the man's parent's problem? She doesn't have some sort of *right* to sleep over because she finds herself surprised to be tired and not looking forward to the dark, long ride back.

 

Look, I'm not saying there is NO possible instance under which I would let the GF/BF sleep over (obviously, since I make exceptions for cpvacations). I'm saying this is one instance when I expect I would do exactly as the young man's mom did. The young lady was imposing upon them in my opinion.

I hear what you are saying. I do not feel you are under any obligation to the girl or her parents in this situation. My thought would be that even if you were justified in your response that it is not your problem, this is one of those situations that could be a game changer in the relationships between the parents and the SO and both sets of parents. I want a good relationship with the other family and with the SO, so I likely would not draw my line where feelings could be so hurt. It would not be worth it for me to damage the relationship in this instance.

 

If SO of my kid leaves their lights on and gets a dead battery I surely will help. Not my responsibility and I might be annoyed but I would help.

 

So, while I agree you are under no obligation or responsibility to solve the girl's problem I worry about the damage to the relationships handling it that way. To me it would not be worth it if it was a longtime SO with future mate potential.

Edited July 3, 2017 by teachermom2834

[Guest]

Well, that kind of distrust and assumed shenanigans and concern with appearances over people is what made me move out as soon as the dorms opened and not move back home again.

Well, I don't think it's distrust at all; I think it's being a realistic parent.

[regentrude]

How can it be bad behavior on the part of the young man's parents that they expected HER PARENTS to come get her or make arrangements for her to return home? My young drivers have first the responsibility to get themselves safely home from wherever they are, but secondly, if that cannot be accomplished, the onus is upon ME, not whatever other adults they happen to be attempting to impose upon at the moment. If MY child cannot safely drive home from where they are, then getting them home is MY responsibility - why would it be the man's parent's problem? She doesn't have some sort of *right* to sleep over because she finds herself surprised to be tired and not looking forward to the dark, long ride back.

 

I am looking at this from the point of view of the hostess. As the hostess, I feel that the well being of a person under my roof, especially a young person, is my responsibility. Unless the guest grossly misbehaved and can no longer be tolerated in my home, I would not make their parents come get their offspring - I would make the young person feel welcome, because that is the kind of hospitality I want to model to my children.

This has nothing to do with whether this is the SO of my kid or just one of his training partners.

 

Of course, as the mother of a young person, I feel the repsonsibilty to take care of them and would, of course, have driven to get my DD if she had been no longer welcome at the place where she was a guest. But that's two different perspectives.

Edited July 3, 2017 by regentrude

[Guest]

OK, got it. Thanks for clarifying. But, I still don't see it as any different. I get that there are different sleeping arrangements. But it's still a "sleepover" (for lack of a better term). It still seems very inconsistent to me.

To me, the difference is that the young lady made an "emergency" where none existed because she didn't plan appropriately. Driving while tired is not a crisis. Is it ideal? No. Can it be done? Yes. And still - if it was really a major problem for her to drive right then, why is the guy's *mom* getting blamed? GF was presumptuous, IMO, to think surely she can just sleep here. Not everyone is ready to have an overnight guest at the drop of a hat.

 

The vacation things seems different to me because it is planned. I'm not getting cornered into allowing the GF/BF to spend the night.

[Lady Florida.]

For me it was a "mom" issue.  DD's long term friends get sort of adopted in our house.  I feel motherly toward them.  Of course the well-being of my daughter is first, but I wouldn't view one of them (even a BF) sleeping on our couch as damaging DD's or anyone else's well being.  I would and have felt protective over her friends, it would just never have occurred to me to either send one of them out too sleepy to drive OR to call their parents to come get them.  I was honestly surprised another mom would treat a young person like that.

 

With a BF situation, would I probably be listening for squeaks and floorboards all night?  Sure.  Not entirely stupid.  But would I *assume* that the whole thing was done with nefarious intentions, when the two have been independently committed to a chaste relationship up until that point?  No.  And honestly I think it's a little over the top to *assume* that, unless previous situations warranted it. 

 

 

 

I think that was highly inconsiderate of that mom and like a PP said, your dd should really think about if she wants to join that family culture. Of course she can fight it but as we've seem from some posters here, having a difficult relationship with your partner's parents or trying to keep them from their family culture brings hard feelings all the way around. 

 

Like you though, I'd stay out of it. It's her choice. It's hard to see them make choices that we know will cause them heartache but we have to let go.

 

Because I don't give a lot of credit to, "Oh, wow, I just realized I'm sleepy and I have somehow forgotten that my drive home is long, windy and dark!" I am not saying the girl 100%, definitely arranged it so that she could get a kick out of sleeping over, but I don't think that is an obscure possibility, either. IMO, when grown kids begin taking the responsibility to use a car, they are also assuming the responsibility of paying attention to the need to return home. I expect my kids to pay attention to the weather, for example, especially if bad weather is forecast. I badgered my DD to drive home one time when she was around 17, because she was over the BF's house and it was beginning to sleet. She was 100% pissed off at me for "making" her come home. For all I know, she *wanted* to get iced-in at his house by feigning not attending to the weather. Being mindful of the need to return home is part of the priviledge of driving independantly.

 

 

 

You do realize you're very close to calling a poster's dd a liar, don't you? Goldberry seems to know her daughter and know the relationship, and she doesn't have any suspicions about why her dd didn't want to drive home that night. And you're telling her that's BS.

[regentrude]

To me, the difference is that the young lady made an "emergency" where none existed because she didn't plan appropriately. Driving while tired is not a crisis. Is it ideal? No. Can it be done? Yes. And still - if it was really a major problem for her to drive right then, why is the guy's *mom* getting blamed? GF was presumptuous, IMO, to think surely she can just sleep here. 

 

I have not always been able to "plan" appropriately for tiredness. 

 

Also, driving while tired is a leading cause of accidents. I would applaud a teen for recognizing that she is not fit to drive.

 

(Just like I praised my DS when he recognized that he was getting too tired to drive home safely, pulled over on an exit, and promptly fell asleep. The fact that he left the lights on, drained the battery and had to be rescued was a minor glitch, and I am still happy that he did not continue driving. )

 

The whole idea of turning a person (who had not committed a major infraction against me or mine) out of my house is so alien to me.

 

Not everyone is ready to have an overnight guest at the drop of a hat.

 

I am sure everybody's home has a spare blanket or a sleeping bag, and a few square feet of floor space to put up one extra person in an unexpected emergency. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by regentrude

[Guest]

I think that was highly inconsiderate of that mom and like a PP said, your dd should really think about if she wants to join that family culture. Of course she can fight it but as we've seem from some posters here, having a difficult relationship with your partner's parents or trying to keep them from their family culture brings hard feelings all the way around.

 

Like you though, I'd stay out of it. It's her choice. It's hard to see them make choices that we know will cause them heartache but we have to let go.

 

 

You do realize you're very close to calling a poster's dd a liar, don't you? Goldberry seems to know her daughter and know the relationship, and she doesn't have any suspicions about why her dd didn't want to drive home that night. And you're telling her that's BS.

I'm saying, Goldberry, don't be naive. That they've been together 1.5 years to me is no acid test. That they've said they plan to remain virgins is no acid test. You know how long my DD and her BF have been together? For-freakin-ever. They met when they were 6 and 7. They pinned "Je t'aime" buttons on each other's FB when they were 13/14. He's a nice Catholic boy. She's a Protestant who is serious about her faith. But I was a "good girl" too, when I was that age, and I still did sneaky things sometimes. It's nothing horrible, but I'm saying - don't think a girl couldn't possibly have an ulterior motive.

 

I think it is unfair to be pissed at the parents because goldberry had to come retrieve her own daughter.

[winterbaby]

I would be more concerned about the safety of driving than I would about the daughter concocting a reason to be there. I think it is wildly unsafe to have a policy that anywhere a teen goes, they have to come back from on their own. (Or really any family member - I can't imagine telling my husband, if he called me in an emergency, "well you got yourself out there, better get yourself back!") Thinking you're better from an illness and then finding out you're really not is something that happens, and can't really be planned for, especially by young people with limited life experience. If I was in goldberry's shoes I would be concerned about their apparent lack of feeling for someone who's been dating their son a year and a half.

[Guest]

I hear what you are saying. I do not feel you are under any obligation to the girl or her parents in this situation. My thought would be that even if you were justified in your response that it is not your problem, this is one of those situations that could be a game changer in the relationships between the parents and the SO and both sets of parents. I want a good relationship with the other family and with the SO, so I likely would not draw my line where feelings could be so hurt. It would not be worth it for me to damage the relationship in this instance.

 

If SO of my kid leaves their lights on and gets a dead battery I surely will help. Not my responsibility and I might be annoyed but I would help.

 

So, while I agree you are under no obligation or responsibility to solve the girl's problem I worry about the damage to the relationships handling it that way. To me it would not be worth it if it was a longtime SO with future mate potential.

*shrug* Okay, well I don't see it as a game changer at all. The girl was tired and assumed she could just crash on the couch. The parents of BF were clearly not sanguine about that. What's so horrifying about expecting her to return home to her own bed?

 

Dead battery or something like that - of course we're going to help. We havehelped over car troubles.

[Twolittleboys]

I'm saying, Goldberry, don't be naive. That they've been together 1.5 years to me is no acid test. That they've said they plan to remain virgins is no acid test. You know how long my DD and her BF have been together? For-freakin-ever. They met when they were 6 and 7. They pinned "Je t'aime" buttons on each other's FB when they were 13/14. He's a nice Catholic boy. She's a Protestant who is serious about her faith. But I was a "good girl" too, when I was that age, and I still did sneaky things sometimes. It's nothing horrible, but I'm saying - don't think a girl couldn't possibly have an ulterior motive.

 

I think it is unfair to be pissed at the parents because goldberry had to come retrieve her own daughter.

For me, the "been together 1.5 years" part doesn't really pertain to whether or not something would (or should) happen. But it does mean the other family should know and hopefully like and care for goldberry's daughter. Sure, it may be inconvenient to have an unexpected overnight guest, sure, there may have been an ulterior motive (wouldn't have occured to me but who knows) and yes, this could have probably been avoided with better planning (not something teenagers/young people are always known for). But surely the inconvenience wouldn't have been that huge and if one was truly worried about something untoward happening that could easily be discouraged. So all in all, I think hospitality and grace should have prevailed, especially for a young person one is close to.

 

If this had happened to me or my child, my trust would have been severely shaken and it would have a long term impact as they clearly value rules/their own comfort more than the well being of the girl.

[teachermom2834]

*shrug* Okay, well I don't see it as a game changer at all. The girl was tired and assumed she could just crash on the couch. The parents of BF were clearly not sanguine about that. What's so horrifying about expecting her to return home to her own bed?

 

Dead battery or something like that - of course we're going to help. We havehelped over car troubles.

Lots of people here are saying it would change the way they feel about the boyfriend's mom. Whether you think it should or not, many people would would be really hurt by this and think you unkind, inhospitable, and untrustworthy. I get that you are comfortable with that but I am weak and I will admit sometimes I would rather keep peace with the girlfriends in my life than be right.

 

To each their own, as always, but I would choose a night of restless sleep and inconvenience over years of lingering hard feelings.

 

But I understand you don't feel that way.

[AimeeM]

This might be just the right place to bring up a situation that I totally did not understand.  DD18 and boyfriend 19 both still live at home and both our families don't approve of premarital sex.  Both young adults are on board with this.  I will add for background that BF is the oldest of several kids still at home, DD is an only.  DD and BF have been dating fairly seriously for about 1.5 years and are talking marriage.

 

We live about 45 minutes apart.  BF's family lives "in town" and we live in a rural area at the other end of a rather long,windy, dark road.  DD is normally always going down there to visit since there is more to do in town.  Not long ago, DD was just getting over being sick.  She was out with BF close to his house, and she called to say she stayed out too late and didn't realize how tired she was, and she was worried about the 45 minute long windy drive home.  BF says, oh, I'm sure you can stay at our house, we have people stay over all the time.  (There was, of course, no insinuation of room-sharing or anything else, DD was expecting to crash on the couch.)  

 

BF's mom called me a few minutes later and said that DD could NOT stay at her house and that I needed to find some other way to get her home.  I was totally shocked over this.  I would never in a million years have hesitated to have a friend of my kid's stay over in that situation.  If it was a new BF that I didn't know, I could see I might reconsider.  But DD knows the family and they have been dating 1.5 years.  I confess I felt very angry and hurt that another mom that KNOWS my kid would feel that way.  DH and I went and got her, DH drove her car back.  So about 2 hours total, from 11-1. 

 

I was quite cranky and tried to understand... I had another friend tell me it was because she had other kids at home, and having a girlfriend sleep at the house wouldn't be acceptable.  Is that a normal feeling even in this situation?  Two young adults that have spent 1.5 years abiding by some very strict moral boundaries, and both good and trustworthy kids?  And one kid too tired to drive?   Would that still be considered a sleepover to some people?

Not normal here -- and we're firmly in the "no sleepovers in the same room" camp. 

 

DD's best friend is male and and lives some distance away. He stays the night on the couch when he comes over, if he's dropped off. I can't see telling any of her friends -- or even boyfriends -- that they can't stay the night on the couch or guest room when they're too tired to drive! And, yes, we have younger children in the house. 

[regentrude]

Lots of people here are saying it would change the way they feel about the boyfriend's mom. Whether you think it should or not, many people would would be really hurt by this and think you unkind, inhospitable, and untrustworthy. I get that you are comfortable with that but I am weak and I will admit sometimes I would rather keep peace with the girlfriends in my life than be right.

 

To each their own, as always, but I would choose a night of restless sleep and inconvenience over years of lingering hard feelings.

 

Yep. A son's girlfriend may end up being the mother of one's grandchildren. And her parents the other set of grandparents :)

[Artichoke]

Because I don't give a lot of credit to, "Oh, wow, I just realized I'm sleepy and I have somehow forgotten that my drive home is long, windy and dark!" I am not saying the girl 100%, definitely arranged it so that she could get a kick out of sleeping over, but I don't think that is an obscure possibility, either. IMO, when grown kids begin taking the responsibility to use a car, they are also assuming the responsibility of paying attention to the need to return home. I expect my kids to pay attention to the weather, for example, especially if bad weather is forecast. I badgered my DD to drive home one time when she was around 17, because she was over the BF's house and it was beginning to sleet. She was 100% pissed off at me for "making" her come home. For all I know, she *wanted* to get iced-in at his house by feigning not attending to the weather. Being mindful of the need to return home is part of the priviledge of driving independantly.

 

How can it be bad behavior on the part of the young man's parents that they expected HER PARENTS to come get her or make arrangements for her to return home? My young drivers have first the responsibility to get themselves safely home from wherever they are, but secondly, if that cannot be accomplished, the onus is upon ME, not whatever other adults they happen to be attempting to impose upon at the moment. If MY child cannot safely drive home from where they are, then getting them home is MY responsibility - why would it be the man's parent's problem? She doesn't have some sort of *right* to sleep over because she finds herself surprised to be tired and not looking forward to the dark, long ride back.

 

Look, I'm not saying there is NO possible instance under which I would let the GF/BF sleep over (obviously, since I make exceptions for cpvacations). I'm saying this is one instance when I expect I would do exactly as the young man's mom did. The young lady was imposing upon them in my opinion.

 

I can agree with a lot of what you wrote.  I think though if this was the first time, then I would have let the gf stay.  If I  was unhappy with the situation,  then I would have talked with ds the next morning and said not to ask again.  Then followed up with goldberry to talk with her dd.  I couldn't in good conscious ask the gf to drive home and wouldn't want to call the parents out when we could all just deal with it for the night.  I'd rather err on the side of grace.   Now if there was BS going on, and folks weren't where they should be during the night, you betcha I'd call goldberry no matter the time.    FTR -- unmarried couples don't share a room in our home, even if they live together already.  This issue has come up before when we host college students.  We're at a convenient travel point for ds' college  friends, and we often host at Thanksgiving.  Ds just let's folks know up front, and it's no big deal.  We usually have a girls room and a boys room at T-giving.    

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Artichoke

[Guest]

Lots of people here are saying it would change the way they feel about the boyfriend's mom. Whether you think it should or not, many people would would be really hurt by this and think you unkind, inhospitable, and untrustworthy. I get that you are comfortable with that but I am weak and I will admit sometimes I would rather keep peace with the girlfriends in my life than be right.

 

To each their own, as always, but I would choose a night of restless sleep and inconvenience over years of lingering hard feelings.

 

But I understand you don't feel that way.

Well, I guess it's lucky DD has only had the one BF all this while. 😉

[AimeeM]

 

The whole idea of turning a person (who had not committed a major infraction against me or mine) out of my house is so alien to me.

 

 

 

You aren't the only one. It isn't just alien to me -- it seems downright irresponsible and cold. 

 

And I say this as a conservative, Catholic who obviously doesn't condone premarital TeA, co-hab situations, or anything of that variety. 

If you aren't able to drive home, you are welcome here. Period. I do not assume that every teenager is that manipulative.

 

 

And, really, I would feel (even if I didn't express at the time) very disappointed if my mother badgered me to drive home even if the weather was unsafe or I wasn't feel well enough to drive, just because she thought that I had "planned it" that way, without no real reason to believe that. Seriously -- someone who thought so little of me, and so little of my safety, is someone I'm not likely to go out of my way to see as an adult (living on my own).

[marbel]

Because I don't give a lot of credit to, "Oh, wow, I just realized I'm sleepy and I have somehow forgotten that my drive home is long, windy and dark!" I am not saying the girl 100%, definitely arranged it so that she could get a kick out of sleeping over, but I don't think that is an obscure possibility, either. IMO, when grown kids begin taking the responsibility to use a car, they are also assuming the responsibility of paying attention to the need to return home. I expect my kids to pay attention to the weather, for example, especially if bad weather is forecast. I badgered my DD to drive home one time when she was around 17, because she was over the BF's house and it was beginning to sleet. She was 100% pissed off at me for "making" her come home. For all I know, she *wanted* to get iced-in at his house by feigning not attending to the weather. Being mindful of the need to return home is part of the priviledge of driving independantly.

 

<snip>

 

Quill, over the years of reading your posts I gather that you are a very self-disciplined person who plans ahead, makes contingencies, and in general lives a very well-ordered life.   That may be the cause of your suspicion:  maybe you just can't relate to an unexpected happening.

 

We had to have a whole family spend the night once because of a sudden snowstorm.  It was forecast, but no one expected the speed at which the snow fell, which rendered our road unsafe.   Neither my husband or the visiting husband, both weather geeks, expected it.  Of course it wasn't the same situation because there was no danger of shenanigans, but the point is, things happen to people despite their best efforts.  It seems unsurprising to me that an 18-year-old girl might overestimate her ability to drive after being sick.  

[Guest]

According to the post it was the boyfriend who suggested that she stay over when she was worried about driving home.

Then he didn't understand his parent's "rules" - or unspoken, not spelled-out rules - about allowing GFs to stay over. Maybe he is the eldest child in the family and hasn't seen that scenario play out before. I'm just wondering why it's the guy's parents who are getting all the hard feelings, here. It isn't their job to make sure the GF is ever-conscious of her need to drive back home.

 

But if he is the eldest child in his family, I can even better understand why they want it to be clear that this is how they operate the household. The younger kids are observing; it is exactly what I did when I was young and watched my sister's BF get to spend the night because he lived somewhat far away. (Funnily enough, he lived not far from where I live now; we were the "in town" people and he was the "out in the country" person.)

[teachermom2834]

Well, I guess it's lucky DD has only had the one BF all this while. 😉

And from my experience the MIL/DIL is much more complicated than MIL/SIL and likely needs to be treaded more carefully. My big kids are boys and I definitely don't want to offend their gfs.

 

The funny thing is, dh and I used to get "snowed in" at my house when we were home over winter break in college. I am not sure anyone was fooled looking back on it. BUT- teen brain being what it was- even though we aimed to get "snowed in", if MIL had called me on that or implied it I would have been terribly offended! So, she would have been right but not worth it to have future DIL not like her.

 

I currently keep a land line just so I don't need to give MIL my cell number, so that's why I am willing to go the extra mile (or ten) to finesse the MIL/DIL relationship.

 

(FTR- the snowed in was really just to spend more time together- no hanky panky in mom's house).

[Wheres Toto]

I hear what you are saying. I do not feel you are under any obligation to the girl or her parents in this situation. My thought would be that even if you were justified in your response that it is not your problem, this is one of those situations that could be a game changer in the relationships between the parents and the SO and both sets of parents. I want a good relationship with the other family and with the SO, so I likely would not draw my line where feelings could be so hurt. It would not be worth it for me to damage the relationship in this instance.

 

If SO of my kid leaves their lights on and gets a dead battery I surely will help. Not my responsibility and I might be annoyed but I would help.

 

So, while I agree you are under no obligation or responsibility to solve the girl's problem I worry about the damage to the relationships handling it that way. To me it would not be worth it if it was a longtime SO with future mate potential.

 

This!   This wasn't some casual relationship where they just started dating.  They are talking about marriage!   So, IMO the man in the situation should be taking responsibility for ensuring that his SERIOUS girlfriend got home safely.  What would they have done if the parents couldn't come get her for some reason?   Would they have pushed her to drive home even though she did't feel she could?  Taking the chance that she would get into an accident?  That little consideration for the safety of someone their son supposedly has strong feelings for, is not right.

 

If their rationale was Quills, they are putting their own concern over appearances over the safety of someone their son presumably loves enough to consider marrying.  WTH?

[Bluegoat]

You aren't the only one. It isn't just alien to me -- it seems downright irresponsible and cold. 

 

And I say this as a conservative, Catholic who obviously doesn't condone premarital TeA, co-hab situations, or anything of that variety. 

If you aren't able to drive home, you are welcome here. Period. I do not assume that every teenager is that manipulative.

 

 

And, really, I would feel (even if I didn't express at the time) very disappointed if my mother badgered me to drive home even if the weather was unsafe or I wasn't feel well enough to drive, just because she thought that I had "planned it" that way, without no real reason to believe that. Seriously -- someone who thought so little of me, and so little of my safety, is someone I'm not likely to go out of my way to see as an adult (living on my own).

 

I'm in many ways religiously conservative as well, and I find the whole idea of imputing those kinds of motives on a teen (or anyone else) completely bizarre and shocking.

 

If I'd realized my friend's parents thought that way about me as a teen, I'd have been humiliated and horrified.  I doubt I'd have set foot in their house again.  As a parent, I would want to forbid my child going tp that home.  I'd wonder what was in their minds that they would think that way about someone who had done nothing to indicate that sort of dysfunction. 

 

I've gone places and realized I wasn't able to drive before.  As an adult. 

 

I also don't get the "I have no responsibility for anyone else" thing.  I've said before here, to me that kind of thing is a sign of a broken down society.  Hospitality tp the stranger is one of the cornerstones of civilization.  Ignoring it because of concern with the appearance of purity is certainly nothing to do with Christianity.

[Guest]

Quill, over the years of reading your posts I gather that you are a very self-disciplined person who plans ahead, makes contingencies, and in general lives a very well-ordered life. That may be the cause of your suspicion: maybe you just can't relate to an unexpected happening.

 

We had to have a whole family spend the night once because of a sudden snowstorm. It was forecast, but no one expected the speed at which the snow fell, which rendered our road unsafe. Neither my husband or the visiting husband, both weather geeks, expected it. Of course it wasn't the same situation because there was no danger of shenanigans, but the point is, things happen to people despite their best efforts. It seems unsurprising to me that an 18-year-old girl might overestimate her ability to drive after being sick.

Yes, you describe me well. I do know how unexpected things can happen, though. Your snowstorm example - sure, I can see that.

 

It may have been a total surprise to the young lady to find herself tired and not up to the drive; sure. It may not have been in any way sneaky at all and maybe it didn't even cross her mind that she might sleep over until BF suggested it. All of those things are possible, yes.

 

Now - I just know this will be misinterpreted - but, being tired just doesn't register with me as a big fat hairy deal. My DD, for example, has worked as an overnight nanny, so, stay awake the literal entire night and drive home at 6am. I don't think this is super-ideal, but I also think - well, lots of people work jobs like this. Lots of people are nurses or soldiers or law enforcement officers or midwives or warehouse stockers and they work when people are sleeping and they drive home when other people are leaving for work. It's not wonderful, but with a cup of coffee, it's manageable. So - that is part of where I'm coming from. I have never been that mom that let's the kids go in to school late the next morning because they got home late the night before. (Dd's friend's mom did this when we went to NYC.) I'm more like, "You're tired? Oh, that's annoying. Here's a cup of joe. Do you take cream?"

 

SO.. all that to say, it wouldn't register with me as horribly alarming that GF said she was tired and had a 45 minute drive in front of her. AND...beyond that, if it's really a problem for her that she feels tired, I still think this is *her* parents' problem, not mine. If I don't want people sleeping on my couch, setting a precedent for my little kids, that's my prerogative to not allow it and to expect her own parents to provide transportation if she is literally unable to drive. *that's* the part I'm not getting in the responses - why people think the guy's parents are thoughtless, controling, mean, for upholding a rule they held. They may even have had to decide what that rule was suddenly, having not faced it before, and having not done as Tap is doing by asking pre-emptively. ðŸ˜

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm saying, Goldberry, don't be naive. That they've been together 1.5 years to me is no acid test. That they've said they plan to remain virgins is no acid test. You know how long my DD and her BF have been together? For-freakin-ever. They met when they were 6 and 7. They pinned "Je t'aime" buttons on each other's FB when they were 13/14. He's a nice Catholic boy. She's a Protestant who is serious about her faith. But I was a "good girl" too, when I was that age, and I still did sneaky things sometimes. It's nothing horrible, but I'm saying - don't think a girl couldn't possibly have an ulterior motive.

 

I think it is unfair to be pissed at the parents because goldberry had to come retrieve her own daughter.

So they decide to do the deed for the first time in a crowded house?

Lol okay.

 

Between this thread and the 12yo/hotel thread I am getting another lesson on how I guess I just see the world differently than some here.

[AnnE-girl]

I'm more apt to blame the boy if there's any sort of scheming going on, honestly. Maybe the mom knows her own son too well to trust him with his gf in the house overnight. And I'd really be questioning the relationship if the boy expects the girl to do more of the driving to him, even if she is the one who lives farther from the fun places they go. I hope he's putting in at least as much effort and miles to see her as she is to see him.

 

That said, DH got snowed in at his hs gf's house at 16 or 17 and slept on the couch knowing that's what his parents would expect. Gf's mother later told them that it was perfectly fine for him to share the girl's bedroom whenever he stayed over. I still wonder if my mil knows about that.

[Scarlett]

*shrug* Okay, well I don't see it as a game changer at all. The girl was tired and assumed she could just crash on the couch. The parents of BF were clearly not sanguine about that. What's so horrifying about expecting her to return home to her own bed?

 

Dead battery or something like that - of course we're going to help. We havehelped over car troubles.

 

I agree.  

 

The boys parents made sure she was taken care of.  They called her parents. 

 

So there was no real emergency.

 

If you have firm boundaries about this sort of thing, it is better to draw the line in the sand early on.  Save the emergency card for real emergencies.  

 

As far as damaging the relationship with potential future wives .....I don't think we can change our standards in fear of a girl reacting badly.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, you describe me well. I do know how unexpected things can happen, though. Your snowstorm example - sure, I can see that.

 

It may have been a total surprise to the young lady to find herself tired and not up to the drive; sure. It may not have been in any way sneaky at all and maybe it didn't even cross her mind that she might sleep over until BF suggested it. All of those things are possible, yes.

 

Now - I just know this will be misinterpreted - but, being tired just doesn't register with me as a big fat hairy deal. My DD, for example, has worked as an overnight nanny, so, stay awake the literal entire night and drive home at 6am. I don't think this is super-ideal, but I also think - well, lots of people work jobs like this. Lots of people are nurses or soldiers or law enforcement officers or midwives or warehouse stockers and they work when people are sleeping and they drive home when other people are leaving for work. It's not wonderful, but with a cup of coffee, it's manageable. So - that is part of where I'm coming from. I have never been that mom that let's the kids go in to school late the next morning because they got home late the night before. (Dd's friend's mom did this when we went to NYC.) I'm more like, "You're tired? Oh, that's annoying. Here's a cup of joe. Do you take cream?"

 

SO.. all that to say, it wouldn't register with me as horribly alarming that GF said she was tired and had a 45 minute drive in front of her. AND...beyond that, if it's really a problem for her that she feels tired, I still think this is *her* parents' problem, not mine. If I don't want people sleeping on my couch, setting a precedent for my little kids, that's my prerogative to not allow it and to expect her own parents to provide transportation if she is literally unable to drive. *that's* the part I'm not getting in the responses - why people think the guy's parents are thoughtless, controling, mean, for upholding a rule they held. They may even have had to decide what that rule was suddenly, having not faced it before, and having not done as Tap is doing by asking pre-emptively. ðŸ˜

Your DD is actually as dangerous as a drunk driver in the scenario you described.

[Guest]

So they decide to do the deed for the first time in a crowded house?

Lol okay.

 

Between this thread and the 12yo/hotel thread I am getting another lesson on how I guess I just see the world differently than some here.

I never said that. ðŸ˜

 

I guess I was the only young person who ever had their parents snowed thinking certain things were innocent when they were...not entirely. Like, I'm sure I'm the only teen who had the blanket over them on the Family Room floor, watching a movie with the boyfriend on the premise that we were cold.

 

We weren't cold under that blanket, though, that's for sure.

[winterbaby]

Driving tired - as distinct from driving on a different schedule to the majority of society, sitting through school tired, etc. - is actually really dangerous. If a person consciously feels that they're not fit to drive, it's certainly dangerous. That "people do it all the time" doesn't make it less so. You're supposed to pull over and take a nap if you get to that point.

[Guest]

Your DD is actually as dangerous as a drunk driver in the scenario you described.

Then there are whole professions of dangerous drivers.

[regentrude]

Now - I just know this will be misinterpreted - but, being tired just doesn't register with me as a big fat hairy deal. My DD, for example, has worked as an overnight nanny, so, stay awake the literal entire night and drive home at 6am. I don't think this is super-ideal, but I also think - well, lots of people work jobs like this. Lots of people are nurses or soldiers or law enforcement officers or midwives or warehouse stockers and they work when people are sleeping and they drive home when other people are leaving for work. It's not wonderful, but with a cup of coffee, it's manageable. 

 

If she sleeps eight hours during the day until the beginning of her shift, fine. Otherwise:

 

http://drowsydriving.org/about/facts-and-stats/

 

" being awake for 18 hours produced an impairment equal to a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .05, and .10 after 24 hours; .08 is considered legally drunk."

 

https://www.aaafoundation.org/drowsy-driving

" Drowsy drivers are involved in an estimated 21% of fatal crashes, up from 16.5% from the previous 2010 study, as most drivers drift out of their lanes or off the road.   Drivers themselves are often crash victims who die in single-car crashes."

 

"The results of this study indicate that drivers who usually sleep for less than 5 hours daily, drivers who have slept for less than 7 hours in the past 24 hours, and drivers who have slept for 1 or more hours less than their usual amount of sleep in the past 24 hours have significantly elevated crash rates. The estimated rate ratio for crash involvement associated with driving after only 4-5 hours of sleep compared with 7 hours or more is similar to the U.S. government’s estimates of the risk associated with driving with a blood alcohol concentration equal to or slightly above the legal limit for alcohol in the U.S."

Edited July 3, 2017 by regentrude

[winterbaby]

Then there are whole professions of dangerous drivers.

 

And sometimes they kill people, sometimes themselves. The responsible thing to do is stop and take a nap.

 

[Ravin]

Then there are whole professions of dangerous drivers.

 

Yes, there are.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Then there are whole professions of dangerous drivers.

 

They also cause lots of accidents.  Your point?

[zoobie]

Then there are whole professions of dangerous drivers.

Yes, there are. I know three people (one police officer) who were killed by drivers who fell asleep at the wheel. I know zero who were killed by DUI drivers.

 

Regentrude posted the statistics. It's as irresponsible as driving drunk.