Where does or did your freshman live?

[Bear2300]

My child graduates May 2018 and has been wanting to move away for school.  Now she has found some local she rather attend.  Currently she shares a room with her sister who is five year younger.  Its only a 3 bdrm house and the brother is in the other room.  The away college option was going to have her live with relatives but now that school is at the bottom of the list and local ones are on top of the list.  There are a few that are a few hours away and that would require living in the dorm.  Cost is an issue since we did not save (we never planned on saving for anyone's education pass high school).  

Our house was bought with the intentions that she was going away from college and not staying home. If she wanted to stay home we would have continued our search for a 4 bdrm house 2 yrs ago.  Now the idea of converting the sunroom into a bedroom has come up. I thought yeah at first but after looking and trying to add up the cost and labor - I rather just sent her to the local dorm.

 Just let her go to local dorm or go ahead and make the room happen.  It wouldn't be a forever room because I want my sunroom back. It's the stopping place from the yard/pool before coming into the house.  Adding that room would give me an itty bitty walkway from outside to inside. 

 

So who has done down the road similar to mine? pros/cons 

Or not the same road but has some advice.  These options were not given to her father or I. We both went from living at home to military which ment barracks until we married and moved into housing.  Our first real living was when we bought our house 2 years ago.

[TammyS]

There's no reason she can't live at home and continue sharing a room with her sibling.  It won't kill her.  My son does go away to college, but in the summer he shares (as he did before) a room with his 12 year younger sibling.  He's getting to live for free in a home he did not purchase.  Beggars can't be choosers. 

 

 

[Bear2300]

but like you said, your son goes away. Temporary summer isn't the same as 365 days a year.  they had their own rooms for nearly 10 years and 2 yrs later it's still a difficult struggle with space and privacy

[TammyS]

but like you said, your son goes away. Temporary summer isn't the same as 365 days a year.  they had their own rooms for nearly 10 years and 2 yrs later it's still a difficult struggle with space and privacy

 

My kids always shared.  They could have had their own room, but we chose to use the 3rd bedroom for an office and exercise room instead. 

[Caroline]

My oldest went to a local university. He lived in the dorms. It was easier on all of us.

 

He recently graduated, got a local job in his field, and moved back home. We have given him half of our finished basement to use. It has an outside entrance and full bath, but not a kitchen. He has a mini fridge down there, but uses our kitchen and eats dinner with us.

[Bootsie]

Several things would factor into my decision.  How close is the local college?  How long (and difficult) will a daily commute be?  Does she have a car?  Is the college primarily a commuter school or a residential campus?  (Some schools require ALL freshman to live on campus.)  She will also need a quiet place to be able to study and do school work.  If she is sharing a room with a sibling, will that room be conducive to studying?  Or, is there somewhere else in your home that she can do that?  Or, is the university close enough that she can make it to the library to do that?

[Ravin]

If she wants to live at home I would leave the bedroom situation as is. If she chooses the couple hours away option, I would suck it up and help her find a way to live in the dorm.

[creekland]

My kids all lived in dorms for all of their college years (except for youngest's study abroad where he will be living with a family in Jordan).  They've loved it.  Their colleges were all far away from home (closest was 6 hours one way by car), but even if they had gone nearby, we'd have encouraged dorm living mainly because it is convenient and encourages becoming involved in more than academics on campus - something hubby and I loved and wanted our kids to be able to experience too.  As previously stated, they've all loved it.  Different people can have different preferences, of course.  Does your daughter have a preference?

 

Middle son opted to be an RA (Resident Adviser) his last 3 years.  This got him his room for free.  It's a competitive thing though.  One has to apply and be accepted, so it's no guarantee.  Oldest and youngest had no interest in that kind of job.  It IS a job if done correctly.

[G5052]

I know siblings sharing a room where one or both are in college. And it's worked just fine. Some of my friends have had their kids stay in the dorm for the more distant commuter college (1+ hour each way), and some have had them rent rooms in the area. There are many older people in that area who are very happy to rent a room to a M-F student for a reasonable price and some lawn care. DS plans to just take the commuter bus which has wi-fi and stops right at the building he needs. Parking is VERY expensive there.

 

Mine are a boy and a girl, so they already have their own rooms. Both are commuter students.

 

For us, it was about a quality education at a reasonable price. Thankfully we have "name brand" commuter schools.

[G5052]

 

Middle son opted to be an RA (Resident Adviser) his last 3 years.  This got him his room for free.  It's a competitive thing though.  One has to apply and be accepted, so it's no guarantee.  Oldest and youngest had no interest in that kind of job.  It IS a job if done correctly.

 

No shame in that! I worked as an RA and then the head RA at a state school. They actually paid a salary to the head RA and gave me a 2-bedroom suite which I shared with a friend. That, odd jobs, scholarships, and summer work paid for my college and a car I bought the summer before I graduated. 

[Julie of KY]

I think cost should be a huge consideration and would advise her to limit loans as much as possible or not take any at all.

 

Living at home is a good option. I think it is reasonable to share a room with her sister or live in the sunroom. I would not invest in remodeling the room into a bedroom. I lived in the sunroom of my home for several years when we had elderly relatives move in with us. I simply placed a broom over two chairs to hang my clothes from, slept on a cot and had some boxes for shelves.

[creekland]

No shame in that! I worked as an RA and then the head RA at a state school. They actually paid a salary to the head RA and gave me a 2-bedroom suite which I shared with a friend. That, odd jobs, scholarships, and summer work paid for my college and a car I bought the summer before I graduated. 

 

Not only no shame, my guy thoroughly enjoyed it and won a campus-wide award this past year for being the "best" at it.  He was loved by both his freshmen and higher ups.  He also had other paid jobs (tutoring, lab work, etc) and scholarships helping him pay for school.  I worried about it all taking up too much time from his academics, but he graduated Summa Cum Laude, so... not a problem for him.

 

As always, students are different so it's wise not to assume "everyone" can do it, but if one wants to try, there's no reason not to either.

[MarkT]

Do colleges allow off-campus housing (non-home) for Frosh?

[elegantlion]

Do colleges allow off-campus housing (non-home) for Frosh?

 

Depends upon the school. Mine does if they are living with family within 50 miles of the school or if they are over a certain age. 

 

 

My son has lived at home and will continue to do so throughout college. Dorms are over 10k per year here. Besides the fact he has no desire to live in a dorm, he really wants to avoid additional loan debt, he took out none for his first year. 

[JanetC]

If you haven't saved and you don't get financial aid, cost is going to be the driving factor. It doesn't matter where she wants to live if neither you nor she can afford better.

 

Run the net price calculator on all her schools and see if moving out is an option for any of them.

[prairiewindmomma]

I'd have a hard time asking my kid to pony up for $50k for room and board over 4 years when she can share a room with a sibling. 

[DawnM]

I'd have a hard time asking my kid to pony up for $50k for room and board over 4 years when she can share a room with a sibling. 

 

Not to mention that most dorm rooms are shared with another person anyway.  

 

I would see about perhaps a partition for their current room, or just let her live as is.

 

My current freshman is living at home, attending community college, and will be living with us for a long time (Asperger's).

 

My next son we don't know yet.  I am inclined to have him live at home and not spend the $10K-$12K/year for dorm life if possible.  

[Matryoshka]

Both my dds were in dorms this past year.  One was a bit over an hour away without traffic.  That would have been a killer commute.

 

The other is at a school only 20 min. away, even on back roads.  She could have lived at home, but she really didn't want to.  But she did get a good scholarship, and it's a state school, so it was still relatively affordable.

 

The general plan is to have them move to an off-campus apartment junior year.

 

In your case, where it sounds like cost is an even more pressing issue, I think I'd just let the kid continue to share with the younger sibling, and maybe make some quiet study space in that sunroom, which would be a lot easier than making it into a bedroom.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Matryoshka

[teachermom2834]

I would not make an expensive yet temporary renovation to

accommodate a college student. I know it seems like it will be 4 years but kids at that age make all kinds of decisions that are unanticipated. Transferring, dropping out, taking a job in a far off place, marriage, etc. The options as I see it are to continue sharing with sibling, make do with the sunroom as is, or move out.

 

I am a fan of moving out come college time and we are making that happen so far but obviously financially it is not always possible. If it is important to your dd to have an arrangement other than sharing with sibling, I would brainstorm with her how to make that happen.

 

I know people will disagree strongly with me but I wouldn't automatically oppose taking a basic Stafford loan to make dorm living possible. It would depend on individual circumstances but in my family we would likely do that as we do see some value in the college kid getting out on his own and on the younger siblings getting their turn to be the oldest ,etc. My oldest ds is pleasant and compliant and hard working but there are some intangible benefits to him moving out of the home. That is JMHO but if there is a way for your dd to move out I would explore that. Otherwise I'd keep her in with sibling.

Edited June 26, 2017 by teachermom2834

[Gwen in VA]

Dd2 lived at home her freshman year (and then transferred to a school 4 hours away -- so after freshman year living at home was not an option!)

 

Dd loved living at home and wasn't planniing on changing that if she had ended up staying at that school.

 

Pros:

1) $$$  Money  $$$

2) Sane home life enabled my introvert to really enjoy her time on campus while giving her a quiet home base

3) She enjoyed hanging out with the fam more than she otherwise would have.

4) SLEEP!!! Dd went to bed around midnight most nights due to late-night rehearsals and homework and socializing, but her bedtime was hours before that of her friends on campus!

 

Cons:

1) Not part of dorm social scene. That was huge -- in her freshman class all but 6 out of 1000 freshman lived on campus, so not being there was isolating. Even freshman orientation was organized by dorm -- she was put with the transfers!

2) Commuting distance -- we live only about 1.5 miles from the college and she had an optimal parking situation (long story -- the advantage of having connections with parking lots!), but I imagine that longer commutes make buzzing back and forth to school more difficult.

3) At the end of the evening, commuter students head home. They don't hang around the dorm socializing. And that is a real cost. Making connections with other students is more of a challenge. Students living at home should definitely plan on being active in some extra-curriculars as a way of finding their tribe!

 

That said, until the details of her transfer were complete she was planning on living off-campus her second year. She loved being home, having a "sane" residential situation, and still being part of the family.

 

I would hesitate to recommend living at home to a student who has some difficulties socializing and making friends, since living at home will make socializing and finding friends much more of a challenge! (Obviously joining various extra-curriculars will help, but not being there is a deterrent to socializing!)

 

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it unless there is some overwhelming factor (like money!), but living at home definitely can work, and it can work well!

[Mom22ns]

Both of my kids spent their freshman year in the dorm. One was close enough he could have commuted, but living in the dorm was worth the cost for our family for many reasons. 

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on this. You'll have to examine what would work best for your daughter and for the rest of your family. They are tough choices, but really, people make all the possible options work. Whatever you decide will be fine. 

[DebbS]

Living at home would certainly save some money. For my own daughter, her freshman year at home was a good transition from the small groups that came with home schooling to suddenly being a part of a much bigger group of students.

 

Have you considered leaving the bedroom situation as it is and converting the sun room to a study area. Basically that would mean putting in a desk and maybe even one of those cubicle half walls or free-standing bookcases to make the study area more private if necessary.

[Tenaj]

Option 1: live at home for free with a roommate

 

Option 2: live at the college dorm for $$ with a roommate

 

And sometimes the $$ with a roommate is worse than living with a sibling in the same room.  Just ask my eldest daughter who ended up with a real doozy of a roommate one semester!

 

Another idea is getting a nice bed tent.  https://www.privacypop.com/?utm_campaign=Summer+Solstice+%28KTp4HA%29&utm_medium=email&_ke=amFuZXRob3dkZXJAY2VkYXJ2aWxsZS5lZHU%3D&utm_source=Master+List

 

My younger kids got kid-sized ones for Christmas and my 11 yods who has to share a room with his younger brother loved the idea and we found him the privacy pop tent.  It is really nice and it's really rather large inside.  Really is like a small room within a room.  He has a light in there and we are now looking for a fan.  My oldest dd wished she had had one when she was in the dorms.  It might be a solution to give either girl more privacy and a place to study late at night without bothering the other.  

[J-rap]

If money is a major factor, then I'd definitely have her stay at home still.  She can either stay in her current situation, or you could put up a nice room divider (that's what my parents did for me and my sister who was in college while living in home and I was 6 years younger).  It really was just fine.  If you don't build up expectations, then there aren't any.

 

We did it differently for each kid, but I'm pretty sure that if one of them was going to school in our home town, they'd live at home, especially for their first year and maybe for all four.

 

One dd went to school in a city where her grandmother lived.  After my dh became ill, we all actually ended up moving in with his mother for about 8 months, since that's where the best hospitals and rehab facilities were.  During that time, our dd moved in with us.  That was second semester of her first year of college, and she shared a room with her sister at her grandmother's house.  It was great having her with us!

[Bear2300]

Thank you for the replies. Husband and I both did our time in the barracks but even those were bigger than the girls bedroom.  The space is 10x12 and even the smallest dorm has been bigger than current living situations. I have looked at Pinterest at dorm living pictures and we have decided to make custom loft beds for the girls.  Plus my husband was pretty clear in his emails that he did not want to return home with any spaces converted to make a 4th room, even a temporary one.

 

Since last posting this she is back on the track of attending the the out of state college.  Some of the colleges are already taking applications for the 2018-2019 school year.  Not sure if it's better to summit early or late either way it just be nice to know what next summer will bring us.  My husband will be up for orders and where she goes will be a factor in first choice of orders.

[MarkT]

Depends upon the school. Mine does if they are living with family within 50 miles of the school or if they are over a certain age. 

 

 

My son has lived at home and will continue to do so throughout college. Dorms are over 10k per year here. Besides the fact he has no desire to live in a dorm, he really wants to avoid additional loan debt, he took out none for his first year. 

Unless DS chooses to go to local U - I want to convince him (white lie  :closedeyes: ) to live in a dorm his Freshman year (2018-19) so he can make friends etc. He has had his own bedroom for a long time and he has only a small circle of friends. He has never been on a "travel team" for sports, band, etc so he needs to experience some form of communal living.

 

What do y'all think?

Edited July 2, 2017 by MarkT

[creekland]

Thank you for the replies. Husband and I both did our time in the barracks but even those were bigger than the girls bedroom.  The space is 10x12 and even the smallest dorm has been bigger than current living situations. I have looked at Pinterest at dorm living pictures and we have decided to make custom loft beds for the girls.  Plus my husband was pretty clear in his emails that he did not want to return home with any spaces converted to make a 4th room, even a temporary one.

 

Since last posting this she is back on the track of attending the the out of state college.  Some of the colleges are already taking applications for the 2018-2019 school year.  Not sure if it's better to summit early or late either way it just be nice to know what next summer will bring us.  My husband will be up for orders and where she goes will be a factor in first choice of orders.

 

I'm not sure how you mean the underlined since you said the OOS college is the current favorite.  If you are thinking of making custom loft beds for a college dorm room, make sure you check with the college first.  Many, including those my boys have gone to, do not allow custom lofts brought in.  One has to get theirs if anything is allowed.  If you are talking about within your house, then carry on.  ;)

 

 

Unless DS chooses to go to local U - I want to convince him (white lie  :closedeyes: ) to live in a dorm his Freshman year (2018-19) so he can make friends etc. He has had his own bedroom for a long time and he has only a small circle of friends. He has never been on a "travel team" for sports, band, etc so he needs to experience some form of communal living.

 

What do y'all think?

 

What does he think?  Many kids (including mine) love the camaraderie of dorm life and it definitely helps students get "more" out of the college experience with activities, etc, but not all kids do.  This is one case where the statistics say one thing, but stats never apply to the individual...

[popmom]

I haven't read all the replies, so I apologize is this is redundant.

 

There may be a third option. My girls lived off campus their freshman year. Our college doesn't require freshmen to live on campus because there aren't enough dorms. That also means that living on campus is almost a luxury at their school, and they price it that way. The absolute cheapest option for a dorm comes out to be over $600 per month, and they boot you out for holidays. Yes, it includes cable and all utilities. But that's over $600 PER STUDENT for ONE ROOM. That's $1200 a month for each room. Most of the dorms are closer to $800/mo per student.

 

If you go off campus (at our university), for $350 per month you get your own bedroom in an apartment with 1 to 3 other roommates. If you are willing to live in an older property, you can do even better on rent. Yes, you do have to chip in for utilites,  but it's a whole apartment with a kitchen (which saves a lot on food expenses). The university has a wonderful bus transit system, so no car is needed even if you live off campus. 

 

Because we have twins it just didn't make good financial sense for us to do the dorm. Because we have 4 kids who will most likely all attend the same school, we opted to buy condo. We are putting out less each month than we would if we were renting. 

 

Bottom line...Just know that it might be possible to rent a room right off campus for much cheaper than the dorm would cost. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by stephensgirls

[MarkT]

 

 

 

 

What does he think?  Many kids (including mine) love the camaraderie of dorm life and it definitely helps students get "more" out of the college experience with activities, etc, but not all kids do.  This is one case where the statistics say one thing, but stats never apply to the individual...

DS wants to live off campus with a bedroom of his own!

Sometimes a parent has to push an opposite agenda for long term success.

 

He has never experienced anything like this ... well actually he "failed" summer camp back in middle school 4 or 5 years ago - I had to pull him from the dorm and drop him off each day at the camp. Luckily it was only 25 min or so from my mother's house where we were staying. He enjoyed the outdoor activities but freaked out about sleeping/staying in a crowded noisy dorm.

[MerryAtHope]

Unless DS chooses to go to local U - I want to convince him (white lie  :closedeyes: ) to live in a dorm his Freshman year (2018-19) so he can make friends etc. He has had his own bedroom for a long time and he has only a small circle of friends. He has never been on a "travel team" for sports, band, etc so he needs to experience some form of communal living.

 

What do y'all think?

 

I'm with him! Why does he need to experience some form of communal living? He's lived in a home with a family, and will have that experience when he has a family of his own some day--I don't see why dorm-living is a necessity :-).

 

I never lived in the dorms in college--I had the option of staying in a large open lounge with temporary bunks until a room opened up or living off campus and chose the latter. Never regretted it for a moment (and was thankful many times. I saw the dorms. NOT interested, LOL!)

 

One can make lasting friendships through common interests and clubs (which is what I did--and still keep in touch with a lot of my college friends). 

[creekland]

DS wants to live off campus with a bedroom of his own!

Sometimes a parent has to push an opposite agenda for long term success.

 

He has never experienced anything like this ... well actually he "failed" summer camp back in middle school 4 or 5 years ago - I had to pull him from the dorm and drop him off each day at the camp. Luckily it was only 25 min or so from my mother's house where we were staying. He enjoyed the outdoor activities but freaked out about sleeping/staying in a crowded noisy dorm.

 

I'd let him live off campus with the parental "requirement" he find at least one or two clubs of his choice that he joins and regularly participates in.  That seems to suit his personality better while still encouraging finding friends, etc.   By his second year he'd know some kids and decide what housing option he wanted.

 

My guys all loved sleep away camp from as young as 8 years old.

 

Fit counts.  You want good memories and stories, not "dread" stories.  "Good" spills over to handling academics.  Well, "bad" does too - just not in a way you want it to.

[AngelaNYC]

My oldest commuted from home (she went to community college, then beauty school).

 

My middle dormed near her dance conservatory - she would have commuted from home but she got a big scholarship, so it kind of offset the dorm cost.  And living on the Upper West Side of Manhattan was awesome for her.

 

My youngest also plans on staying local and will most likely commute from home.  

[Liza Q]

My oldest lived at home through college (local LAC), sharing a room with her 2 sisters. It was mostly a financial decision, as we couldn't imagine borrowing money for her to dorm when her commute was only about an hour.

 

My next daughter also lived at home through college (CUNY community college, then 4-yr) and commuted, but for her last year she only shared the room with 1 sister as our oldest had moved out.

 

My youngest daughter now has her own room and plans to stay home and commute this fall (CUNY community college).

 

My son has his own room and intends to stay home as well (CUNY 4-yr) unless he gets a good scholarship to another school that meets his needs).

 

But we live in Brooklyn and there are many colleges close enough to commute. I think dorming would have been a reasonable choice if we had lived somewhere else. And sure - our children are friends but they also drive each other crazy and there were times I wanted to kick some or all of them out...but that's family life, especially in an apartment. If we had a house...well, that would have been even better!

 

 

[Bear2300]

I am talking about the bedroom here at the house.  We are going to make custom loft beds here at the house.  

[LMV]

So far our kids have lived:

-in our guesthouse while commuting to a state university about 40 minutes away.

-in a townhouse he owned [he went into the military at 17 and then came home to work his way through a BS while working].

-in a freshman dorm as her school doesn't have separate dorms for athletes.

 

Current DD17 will also be living in an on campus dorm when she heads off this fall.

[Rebel Yell]

I haven't read all replies...

 

Has anyone considered the younger sibling?

 

I have three girls in a three bedroom house. Oldest has always had her own room, except for a few years when smallest bedroom was a school room and all three shared the largest bedroom. Younger sisters have been counting on having their own rooms for the past two years. (Diamond lived at home for 2-yr associate, took two years off, is returning to school in the fall)

 

Plan was for one year or less off school, so we never changed room arrangements. Youngers have been very patient with the situation, but they need space, too. Our small house has no options for another bedroom without massive renovations. The OP said they would have chosen a different house had they expected oldest to live at home through school.

 

Diamond is 5 credits short of Junior status as a transfer student, so not required to live on campus, also we do live within 50 miles, so that also qualifies her to remain at home. However, 8am required classes 4 days/week, plus rehearsals and other performances would make it difficult to not live on campus. Also, time, gas, and tolls, plus insurance rates, wear/tear/maintenance costs would be significant. Maybe not equivalent to room and board, but still a huge consideration. One of this is even considering becoming involved in campus, which, for this child, would be very difficult as a commuter.

 

Even considering that it truly wouldn't be worth remaining at home, the needs of the other children are also a consideration. If we knew she'd commute for two years, stay home for two more, then transfer for two more years, we might have chosen a different house also. We were a bit lazy in rearranging rooms/switching up who shares, but switching roommates with brothers/sisters isn't as easy as it is with all girls. Again, this isn't whiny little siblings complaining, it has legitimately been unfair to them for too long.

 

And for the curious, the sister who gets the bigger bedroom hosts College Girl on her breaks.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Rebel Yell

[katilac]

I'd have a hard time asking my kid to pony up for $50k for room and board over 4 years when she can share a room with a sibling. 

 

Some schools cost that much for room and board, but many do cost a lot less. It's one of the items you have to check at every school. 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

 

I would hesitate to recommend living at home to a student who has some difficulties socializing and making friends, since living at home will make socializing and finding friends much more of a challenge! (Obviously joining various extra-curriculars will help, but not being there is a deterrent to socializing!)

 

 

Not quoting the whole thing, but this is a good list of pros and cons. The last paragraph is spot on as well. 

 

 

Have you considered leaving the bedroom situation as it is and converting the sun room to a study area. Basically that would mean putting in a desk and maybe even one of those cubicle half walls or free-standing bookcases to make the study area more private if necessary.

 

I like this idea, or even just having certain times when she has the room to herself (and other dd would have the bedroom to herself at these times). 

 

 It was mostly a financial decision, as we couldn't imagine borrowing money for her to dorm when her commute was only about an hour.

 

 

Was her commute by car or train/bus? Because I have to allow an hour to get dd to her DE university and back, and I've never thought of it as 'only' an hour, lol. If I weren't actually driving, that would be a different story. 

 

We can afford for my kids to stay in a dorm (at the schools they looked at), and that offer was open for both local and away schools. We didn't want them to not choose a local school just because they'd have to stay at home. Also, a couple of them are in amazing locations in the city, lol, it would be a great experience to live there for a while.There is one local school that is private and pricey; if youngest goes there, then she may have to stay home for the last two years or take out loans (because EFC will go up when oldest graduates). This school does have a very nice commuter setup, though, with lockers and commuter lounges and so on. 

 

I don't have a problem with carefully considered student loans in order to live on campus or go to a certain school. No parent loans except under extreme circumstances, like a limited program that the student has a proven passion for (and that also has a decent likelihood of employment). 

 

Neither of my kids are likely to push themselves forward socially if they commute the first years. With other kids, I have seen that they may be social, but are very likely to hang out with a lot of people they already know, and not very likely to get involved in campus clubs. This holds for staying at home or living in an apartment (unless it's an apartment just as close as the dorms, we have seen that at some schools). I do know some exceptions, of course, but I think you have to be much more intentional about it. 

[Liza Q]

 

 

 

Was her commute by car or train/bus? Because I have to allow an hour to get dd to her DE university and back, and I've never thought of it as 'only' an hour, lol. If I weren't actually driving, that would be a different story. 

 

 

Bus/subway. It was definitely her hour, not mine lol!