BREAKING: Shooting at Congressional baseball game practice

[Sneezyone]

Might want to tune into your channel of choice.

[PrincessMommy]

I just saw this come up on BBC of all places, as I'm following the terrible fire in London. 

 

It looks like they have a suspect in custody.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/14/532894023/gunman-opens-fire-as-members-of-congress-practice-baseball?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170614

 

 

[Pam in CT]

Sounds from the reports like it's a mighty good thing that Rep Scalise was there -- since he's leadership, he has extra Capitol Police protection, who were instrumental in containing the gunman.  Had they not been there, it could have been far worse.

 

I'm very relieved that it looks like there were no fatalities.  Dear God.

 

 

[TravelingChris]

So much sad news this morning.  Between the horrible fire and shooting at baseball practice, my heart just breaks.  Prayers for all the victims in both places and all the first responders.

[JudoMom]

What can one even say?  It's horrifying and heartbreaking.  I just heard the 10 year old son of one of the members was there.  That poor baby.  Coupled with the horrific apartment fire, my heart is so heavy.  Praying for those involved in both situations.

Thankful for those who rush toward the danger.

[PrincessMommy]

What can one even say?  It's horrifying and heartbreaking.  I just heard the 10 year old son of one of the members was there.  That poor baby.  Coupled with the horrific apartment fire, my heart is so heavy.  Praying for those involved in both situations.

Thankful for those who rush toward the danger.

 

What?  Are you saying that a WTM member's son was at the London fire or the shooting?

[JudoMom]

What?  Are you saying that a WTM member's son was at the London fire or the shooting?

 

No.  One of the members of Congress.  

Edited June 14, 2017 by JudoMom

[Selkie]

This is very sad but not surprising given the way certain people (Kathy Griffin et al) have been egging things on in this direction. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Selkie

[Lilaclady]

So very sad. Prayers for all involved.

[Vintage81]

This is really sad and disturbing.  :sad:

[AmandaVT]

nm

Edited June 14, 2017 by AmandaVT

[AmandaVT]

I'm so glad no one was killed today. 

 

Is anyone else unsettled by the graphic descriptions in the news? 

[happi duck]

(hugs) to our fellow boardies who live or work in the area.

 

So scary.

[AmandaVT]

Just saw an update on Twitter from one of the staffers who was shot. He reports he is safe and being treated in the hospital. 

[Guest]

Dang

[Farrar]

It's not comparable. Sure, there were random wackos saying horrific things about the Obamas, but now we have public figures (and plenty of them) very openly saying horrific things.

 

No.

[Guest]

There have been many, public "suggestions" that "someone" needs to be murdered. This particular act of violence does not surprise me.

 

It's horrific, and all of the rhetoric and egging on of others to be violent needs to absolutely stop. Period.

[Junie]

I am thankful that one of the Congressmen had personal security.  It seems that if the officers had not been there, this tragedy would have been much, much worse.  :(

[AmandaVT]

I am thankful that one of the Congressmen had personal security.  It seems that if the officers had not been there, this tragedy would have been much, much worse.   :(

 

 

I believe it was Scalise that had security. Becuase he's the Whip and considered a senior member of Congress, they have more security protections. I can't imagine how horrible it could have been if Capital Police hadn't been there....

[Lanny]

Another blessing was that at least 2 of the people who were there are M.D.s:   Senator Rand Paul of KY and a Rep. from Ohio. They provided first aid until the ambulances arrived.

[poppy]

Perhaps this horrible incident (among far too many mass shootings) will  leads to some common sense gun control.  

[Guest]

The consequence of the vitriol.

 

Disgusting.

[chiguirre]

It's not comparable. Sure, there were random wackos saying horrific things about the Obamas, but now we have public figures (and plenty of them) very openly saying horrific things.

 

 

You do remember Gabi Giffords, right?

[AmandaVT]

Sen. Sanders just put out a statement condemning this shooting. He just learned that the shooter was a volunteer for his campaign. 

 

https://twitter.com/tamarakeithNPR/status/875021666732126209

[Guest]

You do remember Gabi Giffords, right?

Except they concluded that wasn't politically motivated at the end of the investigation, if I recall. His political affiliations and beliefs weren't the motive. The ascribing of motive to the political targeting campaign comments from Palin also didn't hold water after the investigation, and were nowhere near what we are seeing right now.

 

It was absolutely awful but not quite apples to apples.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Except they concluded that wasn't politically motivated at the end of the investigation, if I recall. His political affiliations and beliefs weren't the motive. The ascribing of motive to the political targeting campaign comments from Palin also didn't hold water after the investigation, and were nowhere near what we are seeing right now.

 

It was absolutely awful but not quite apples to apples.

 

Who is "they"?  I didn't remember hearing anything like that, so I did a quick review and I can't find where his motives were ever fully determined.  Loughner never cooperated with the investigation and his motives were never clear.  He did have posts on the internet about federal overreach and brainwashing efforts by the federal government.  It could be a coincidence that Palin's campaign website used crosshairs designating targeted Congressional seats, but it isn't a stretch to believe that kind of rhetoric played a role in the shooting.  It should be noted that Giffords expressed concern about the Palin rhetoric prior to the shooting.

 

[Farrar]

Except they concluded that wasn't politically motivated at the end of the investigation, if I recall. His political affiliations and beliefs weren't the motive. The ascribing of motive to the political targeting campaign comments from Palin also didn't hold water after the investigation, and were nowhere near what we are seeing right now.

 

It was absolutely awful but not quite apples to apples.

 

But there has been a rise in racially motivated killings coming out of conservative ideologies, like Dylann Roof and the guy in Portland. And the attack at Comet Ping Pong (the Pizzagate place) could also easily be termed politically motivated. In fact, I'm not sure what else you would call it, even though it was deeply misguided (as was this).

 

It's not a contest. ALL of these things are horrible. And I would agree with your earlier post and all of them are rising in part from the vitriol (though also in part from mental illness). However, we can't say it's one sided. There is nasty vitriol on both sides.

[TravelingChris]

According to the news reports on all channels, it seems he was targeting Republicans.  I would be equally horrified if he had shot at Democrats.  I just urge everyone to calm rhetoric down.  I have been urging that on Facebook too- either way. It turns out that is what a volunteer on Bernie Sanders campaign. He has put out a statement strongly condemning the attack and I know I will be defending anyone who tries to say that it is obviously some Democrat plot or other crazy statements.  I liked the remarks by Speaker Paul Ryan and Minority leader Nancy Pelosi. 

[AmandaVT]

According to the news reports on all channels, it seems he was targeting Republicans.  I would be equally horrified if he had shot at Democrats.  I just urge everyone to calm rhetoric down.  I have been urging that on Facebook too- either way. It turns out that is what a volunteer on Bernie Sanders campaign. He has put out a statement strongly condemning the attack and I know I will be defending anyone who tries to say that it is obviously some Democrat plot or other crazy statements.  I liked the remarks by Speaker Paul Ryan and Minority leader Nancy Pelosi. 

 

I haven't seen Pelosi's remarks yet, but I also liked Speaker Ryan's remarks. I think he said what a lot of us are thinking. 

 

And I agree with pp's - the vitriol from all sides is too much.

[TravelingChris]

Yes, I agree Farrar, that there has been a rise in horrible killings and crimes coming from all types of nasty rhetoric.  I urge polite disagreements and strong condemnations of any political crimes or racial crimes or generally crimes all together.  I here people who are glad that gang members are killing each other.  I am not.  While they do such things, innocents are hurt, police are hurt and that gang member who is killed never has a chance to reform his ways. 

[Pam in CT]

The charity baseball game will go on, for which I'm glad. 

 

I've seen calls for the players to switch up team rosters, by east-west or alphabetical last name, so both teams have both Rs and Ds among them, as a show of national solidarity.  That would be leadership.

[AmandaVT]

The charity baseball game will go on, for which I'm glad. 

 

I've seen calls for the players to switch up team rosters, by east-west or alphabetical last name, so both teams have both Rs and Ds among them, as a show of national solidarity.  That would be leadership.

 

That is a great idea. 

 

 

They could go old-school captains pick teams too. With the requirement that teams should be 50-50 D and R.

[snowbeltmom]

I haven't seen Pelosi's remarks yet, but I also liked Speaker Ryan's remarks. I think he said what a lot of us are thinking. 

 

And I agree with pp's - the vitriol from all sides is too much.

This. 

 

The internet gives con-men a medium to spew their hate and embolden their followers. The 24 hour news cycle and talk radio are also contributing to this problem. 

[gardenmom5]

 reports are the shooter is dead.

[vonfirmath]

That is a great idea. 

 

 

They could go old-school captains pick teams too. With the requirement that teams should be 50-50 D and R.

 

I love the pick teams idea. Maybe don't have the Captains pick all. The captain picks the first player. First player picks the second, etc. And each must choose someone of a different political party than they are (so if there is an independent there 1) They will still get picked and 2) have more options to pick from.)  I don't know how workable this would be -- how long have they been practicing for this game? Getting ready as their preset teams?

[Paige]

Except they concluded that wasn't politically motivated at the end of the investigation, if I recall. His political affiliations and beliefs weren't the motive. The ascribing of motive to the political targeting campaign comments from Palin also didn't hold water after the investigation, and were nowhere near what we are seeing right now.

 

It was absolutely awful but not quite apples to apples.

 

The investigation has barely begun here. We have no idea yet what was going on in this man's head. It was likely politically motivated but it's just speculation right now.

 

Unless in the bolded you were referring to the general mood of the country. I agree that people on both sides have been upping the rhetoric in disturbing ways that only work to further divide people. The nasty level is higher right now than I've ever seen from both sides. 

[creekland]

Does anyone else wonder if there were people having similar conversations before the Civil War?

 

I've been wondering that for years now - all while watching the polarization (both sides) increase to scary levels.  I don't know if something like this will bring both sides together giving them a wake up call or inspire others in the fringes continuing the spiral.

[Guest]

Yes, I'm speaking generally of the nastiness and dreck coming across the airwaves and through print and online exposure too. Link to Gillebrand's most recent speaking engagement for a taste. That just didn't fly with either party except on the very fringes a few years back.

 

I maintain my happiness by avoiding 95% of it. But that doesn't stop those who want to act on it even as it preserves my personal circle of control.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That just didn't fly with either party except on the very fringes a few years back.

 

Seriously? I think you are ignoring a lot that has happened in the past 9 years.

[SKL]

I'm gonna assume that all the actual shooters are nuts.  And yes this happens to both sides.

 

I do wish people would be a little more responsible with the vitriol.  I am sure no sane person actually wants to see bloodshed.  But we need our words to reflect our hearts better.

[Farrar]

Yes, I'm speaking generally of the nastiness and dreck coming across the airwaves and through print and online exposure too. Link to Gillebrand's most recent speaking engagement for a taste. That just didn't fly with either party except on the very fringes a few years back.

 

I maintain my happiness by avoiding 95% of it. But that doesn't stop those who want to act on it even as it preserves my personal circle of control.

 

I don't think you can compare someone saying that the president hasn't kept his promises and sprinkling that with the f-bomb as the same as inciting violence. I'm sorry, no. And really, that's just so common on both sides. And, yes, with prominent people. Yes, on both sides.

 

Really, sprinkling discourse with the f-bomb as an amplifier is just linguistically getting more common and acceptable in many quarters so it's not surprising that it's hit political discourse. It's a way to sound like you understand current speech patterns.

[Farrar]

I think it's rather inevitable that this thread will be shut down.

 

So before the curtain, I'm just gonna say... people who try to solve political disagreements with violence are always an attack on democracy. End stop. And that's what pretty much every statement from every elected official has said. So we should be in agreement about it.

 

Now, the issues surrounding this... gun rights, mental illness and access to healthcare, security... that's stuff we can disagree about. But I suppose not on the forum.

[Pawz4me]

I love the pick teams idea. Maybe don't have the Captains pick all. The captain picks the first player. First player picks the second, etc. And each must choose someone of a different political party than they are (so if there is an independent there 1) They will still get picked and 2) have more options to pick from.)  I don't know how workable this would be -- how long have they been practicing for this game? Getting ready as their preset teams?

 

I like that idea except for the fact that someone will be the last person picked. And that's hurtful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[poppy]

Politics has ALWAYS been awful and violent. Heck remember the caning of Charles Sumner on the senate floor!!! Unfortunately this is nothing new. It is bad on both sides of the aisle.

I've read about it but I don't remember it happening , I'm not that old!!!!

 

I crack myself up.

 

This was domestic terrorism. One of many many examples from the past decAde. If you think this is the worst one or something brand new because it was inspired by 'the other side', you need new eyeglasses .

[Farrar]

I think it's possible to both say that politics has generally been bad throughout history (someone mentioned the Civil War above... Bleeding Kansas, Harper's Ferry, anyone?) but that it's also genuinely worse in other ways now because of the internet, the way computers can gerrymander us into ever more specific ways, and various other forces.

[Pam in CT]

For those living in the area, you can get tickets to tomorrow's game here.  Proceeds benefit

 

... three worthy and effective DC area charities, The Washington Literacy Center, The Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Washington, and the Washington Nationals Dream Foundation.

 

[snowbeltmom]

I don't know that it's "WORSE" per say....I think it's different.

 

One of the biggest plays in our country today is Hamilton.  The play depicts the the actual history of the death of one of the founding fathers of our country, in a duel, with the vice president of the United States.  In a DUEL.  Can we really say our politics are worse today, when the vice president and the secretary of the treasury hold a DUEL to settle their issues? 

 

I think our countries politics are very different than they were 213 yrs ago.  I think the internet has made info much easier and made it easier for the general public to....for lack of a better phrase...freak out.  But worse...I don't know that I agree with that.

At least both parties willingly agreed to the duel, unlike today when you have to worry about a stranger randomly firing a round of ammunition into a crowd.  I think there have always been corrupt politicians and ugly politics, but to me, it seems worse today.  

 

Maybe it is just in my neck of the woods, but in general, people seem angrier today than I remember people being when I was growing up.  I think the internet enables the fringe personality types to connect with one another.  They all feed off of their delusions and their anger intensifies. Some then act on their anger and commit violent acts against innocent citizens.   This is what makes politics worse today, imo, since most of these fringe personality types are angry at the government for one reason or another. 

[Sneezyone]

At least both parties willingly agreed to the duel, unlike today when you have to worry about a stranger randomly firing a round of ammunition into a crowd.  I think there have always been corrupt politicians and ugly politics, but to me, it seems worse today.  

 

Maybe it is just in my neck of the woods, but in general, people seem angrier today than I remember people being when I was growing up.  I think the internet enables the fringe personality types to connect with one another.  They all feed off of their delusions and their anger intensifies. Some then act on their anger and commit violent acts against innocent citizens.   This is what makes politics worse today, imo, since most of these fringe personality types are angry at the government for one reason or another. 

 

But this isn't new either. We've had multiple presidential assassinations and attempted assassinations. The ability for a single individual to wreak havoc is certainly greater now tho, I think. Our weapons are certainly deadlier and communication is easier.  The lone wolf tho? Always been a thing. In the areas where I grew up, anger was absolutely present. We've had multiple riots throughout the nation's history too with violence perpetrated against innocents. That's a reflection of anger.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Sneezyone

[creekland]

I think it's possible to both say that politics has generally been bad throughout history (someone mentioned the Civil War above... Bleeding Kansas, Harper's Ferry, anyone?) but that it's also genuinely worse in other ways now because of the internet, the way computers can gerrymander us into ever more specific ways, and various other forces.

 

I think it's worse (very potentially even worse to come) now because the toys weapons they can play with can inflict so much more damage.  This goes from the semi-automatic or mack truck handled by a lone lunatic up to nuclear, chemical, and biological should those things fall into the wrong hands.  There are several wrong hands in leadership in various places too (NOT limiting this to the US - either party - think North Korea, Syria, etc).

 

There have been millions killed in lengthy conflicts in the past when the anthill masses formed.  Now millions could be killed within a day/week from a limited number of players fighters, and those fighters don't even have to be among the dead at the end.  They just have to be an evil lunatic with means.

 

Today's London fire might have been accidentally started, but one knows there are folks getting ideas out there - truly despicable ideas - and being cheered on by supporters worldwide.  Who knows what else they are thinking of.

[Farrar]

I feel like it's so reductivist to say, oh, it's always been bad, we can't judge if it's better or worse. Some things are better than at some points, for sure. I mean, if you look at political violence in the lead up to the Civil War, yeah, there's some bad things going down, but we're doing pretty well. But if you look at bipartisanship and rhetoric in the 80's, then sure, there were some really bad moments, but it's measurably worse in some ways now. And there are genuinely some things happening now that are unprecedented - some of it technology like the internet or assault weapons and some of it things like this being the first president sued under the emoluments clause (not offering an opinion on whether that's going anywhere though... just saying).