One of my adult kids won't speak to me

[Bluegoat]

I don't see any problem with the OPs descrription - at least one person suggested looking into BPD, and passive-aggressive and like a middle schooler are pretty accurate ways to describe that, IMO. 

 

I don't quite get the reaction, people talk about much more personal descriptions of kids all the time - I think it was better to leave it at that than be forced to describe every actual thing going on.

[Mimm]

Yikes. Think twice before you talk about your problems around here right?

[Mimm]

For what it's worth OP, I think your daughter is being childish and unkind. And unless you are a toxic person, I DO think adult children owe their parents some sort of relationship. We're talking about your parents. The people who raised you and did everything they could for you. Maybe they weren't perfect, but unless it's actually emotionally unhealthy for you to be in contact with them, people should make some effort to be in contact with their parents. Healthy boundaries, yes. But cutting your loving and non-toxic parents out of your life for no good reason doesn't exactly seem very healthy to me.

[Bluegoat]

The mom already asked for an explaination, and that was when the dd's small talk dried up. That's kinda why I think the dd may return to the small talk if she gets enough indicators that mom is ok with not having a significant conversation about 'it'.

 

In any case, continued attempts at casual small talk aren't likely to do more harm. Asking (again) what is going on is a problem because it's repetitive, which makes it seem demanding. It will add unwanted stress when respect and space seem to be what's wanted.

 

Asking for an explanation for strange behavior is hardly pushing.  It's actually pretty reasonable and grown-up, if you think there might be a problem.  Refusing all interaction on account of it is odd, to say the least.

[Tanaqui]

Asking for an explanation for strange behavior is hardly pushing. It's actually pretty reasonable and grown-up, if you think there might be a problem. Refusing all interaction on account of it is odd, to say the least.

Well, we're only going to get one side of the story. At any rate, her daughter has now made it clear that she doesn't want to discuss this. Whether it's reasonable or not, there is absolutely no way for the OP to change that. Advice that ignores this simple fact is bad advice. That includes advice that isn't advice but goes "you're right, your feelings are right, and your daughter is wrong". This may all be 100% true, but it doesn't provide a viable path to the future.

 

And unless you are a toxic person, I DO think adult children owe their parents some sort of relationship. We're talking about your parents. The people who raised you and did everything they could for you.

 

Yeah, that's what parents are supposed to do. You don't get special privileges for doing what you're supposed to do. Being able to force your attentions on somebody who doesn't want it - unless they have a "good reason", which nobody will believe in anyway - is a special privilege.

 

If you want obligations with no strings attached, have a child. If you want unconditional love, I don't know what to tell you. But you aren't guaranteed it simply by giving birth.

[bolt.]

Asking for an explanation for strange behavior is hardly pushing. It's actually pretty reasonable and grown-up, if you think there might be a problem. Refusing all interaction on account of it is odd, to say the least.

You're right: asking for an explanation *once* isn't pushing. It's absolutely an expected and reasonable response.

 

The OP has already asked for an explanation once.

 

I was focused on what's next, not whether the first request for an explanation was out of line (it wasn't).

[amy g.]

I don't even understand the concept of owing parents just because they raised you.

 

I have free choice.

 

I chose to have children.

 

I chose to make sacrifices for them.

 

How does my free will equal obligation on their part?

 

I see here how some posters adore their own mothers. I see how they morn the mothers that have passed and miss them every day.

 

I want to be the kind of person that my children want to be around.

 

If I fail at that, obligation or a sense of guilt would be a pretty poor consolation prize.

[bolt.]

Yikes. Think twice before you talk about your problems around here right?

Yes.

 

If you are considering talking about your personal problems on the internet, thinking twice is the very least you should do!

 

If you are considering describing your loved ones and your difficult feelings about them in a public place, it is well worth pausing and pondering which wording would be the least unflattering -- while still conveying the situation. Once you put it in text, people will think you mean it.

[Bluegoat]

I don't even understand the concept of owing parents just because they raised you.

 

I have free choice.

 

I chose to have children.

 

I chose to make sacrifices for them.

 

How does my free will equal obligation on their part?

 

I see here how some posters adore their own mothers. I see how they morn the mothers that have passed and miss them every day.

 

I want to be the kind of person that my children want to be around.

 

If I fail at that, obligation or a sense of guilt would be a pretty poor consolation prize.

 

If you didn't choose to have children, does that mean you have no obligation to them?

 

I've never understood this way of thinking.  I consider myself to be under obligation to my family, to my neighbours, to the rest of people in society.  Even to the natural world. This is why I keep in touch with my crazy great aunt, call the police if I see people breaking into the neighbour's car, pay my taxes so even prisoners can have universal health coverage, and keep four separate bags for recyclables in my back porch.

[TCB]

If you didn't choose to have children, does that mean you have no obligation to them?

 

I've never understood this way of thinking.  I consider myself to be under obligation to my family, to my neighbours, to the rest of people in society.  Even to the natural world. This is why I keep in touch with my crazy great aunt, call the police if I see people breaking into the neighbour's car, pay my taxes so even prisoners can have universal health coverage, and keep four separate bags for recyclables in my back porch.

 

:iagree:

[amy g.]

If you didn't choose to have children, does that mean you have no obligation to them?

 

I've never understood this way of thinking. I consider myself to be under obligation to my family, to my neighbours, to the rest of people in society. Even to the natural world. This is why I keep in touch with my crazy great aunt, call the police if I see people breaking into the neighbour's car, pay my taxes so even prisoners can have universal health coverage, and keep four separate bags for recyclables in my back porch.

I think I must just be without conscience because no.

 

Just no.

 

I recycle because I choose to.

 

I keep in touch with relatives that I enjoy.

 

I do favors for the neighbors who I want relationship with but not with the ones who are a PITA.

 

I'm sorry if someone has a child through victimization rather than through choice.

 

But even that scenario doesn't obligate the child in my opinion.

 

How can it be the child's duty to make up for that?

[Bluegoat]

I think I must just be without conscience because no.

 

Just no.

 

I recycle because I choose to.

 

I keep in touch with relatives that I enjoy.

 

I do favors for the neighbors who I want relationship with but not with the ones who are a PITA.

 

I'm sorry if someone has a child through victimization rather than through choice.

 

But even that scenario doesn't obligate the child in my opinion.

 

How can it be the child's duty to make up for that?

 

I'm not sure why victimization is the opposite of choice - many people end up with children simply because they become pregnant.

 

However, I meant, if the adult did not choose to have a child, why is the adult obligated to the child?  Pregnancy and birth are just natural relationships, like having a parent.  Why are any adults obligated to children, in this kind of world?

[J-rap]

I'm sorry OP.  Relationships with grown-up children are sometimes like a dance: one step forward, one step back.  Move in to let them know you love them and are there for them, and then back off and give them the independence they are desiring so much.  It can be tough!

 

Without knowing all the details, we can't really know how to advise you. 

 

It could be some kind of a mental illness or personality disorder, based on some of your descriptions.  In that case the best thing you can do is to think of it as an illness -- something she can't help, and don't take it personally.  Remind her now and then that you love her and are there for her, and that you're a safe person she can come to, anytime.  If you suspect a mental illness, I probably would talk with her siblings, letting them know that you're concerned about her well-being.  Maybe one of the siblings who she is talking to is someone who can help her.

 

If it's not a mental illness but the behavior is still very unusual, and if you worry about abuse or some other unhealthy situation, I'd again keep inserting myself into her life here and there, letting her know that I was there for her.  And if I really did suspect abuse or injury, I'd go there, because I would want to see with my own eyes if she was in danger.

 

If she's just acting kind of selfishly and rude, I wouldn't have as much patience!  I'd still let her know that I loved her though, and would also let her know that if she finds offense in something you have done, she should just tell you.  It could be that she is harboring resentment from something that happened during her childhood years, who knows.  And I would really want to know if this were the case.  She should know that you're open to hearing about it.  I wouldn't get caught up in arguing though, or any passive/aggressive type games.  After saying that and letting her know that you're ready to talk whenever she's ready, I'd just back off and leave it at that (for awhile, anyway).

 

If you suspect that nothing is really wrong and her behavior is more just one of someone seeking answers and trying to find themselves and cutting off contact in the meantime, I'd let her know I loved her and then give her her space.

 

Two things that have helped in my relationship with my adult kids who I have suspected are going through a difficult time...

 

I do attempt to help them.  Just because they might be holing up and not reaching out doesn't mean they don't really need a compassionate friend.  I let them know that I'm there for them, and that I'm there to to listen if they want to talk, and that I will not judge them.  Then, whatever the problem is, even if it's one that I'm internally shocked about, I (try and) keep calm and think of the problem as a thing apart from themselves that the two of us can work on tackling together, you know?  Like the two of us are on one side and the problem is on the other side.

 

Another thing I've learned is that we never really know what's going on in the mind of someone else. Sometimes, our minds tend to zoom in on something and obsess over it and the importance we attach to it then becomes skewed.  So who knows, it could be something like that is going on with your dd.  (I mean, it's something we ALL do, and sometimes it affects our relationships.)  So it could be completely skewed, but what she is feeling feels very, very real to her, so we can't discount it.  If they let us, we can help them work through it to see where their thinking went awry.  Of course that only works if you get to the point where you can talk a little.  Until then, I'd just make sure the communication line is kept open, with the hope that eventually she will want to talk about it.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by J-rap

[Tanaqui]

However, I meant, if the adult did not choose to have a child, why is the adult obligated to the child?  Pregnancy and birth are just natural relationships, like having a parent.  Why are any adults obligated to children, in this kind of world?

 

If the adult did not choose to have a child, then the adult can put the child up for adoption. Children do need to be taken care of.

 

[Tanaqui]

I've never understood this way of thinking.  I consider myself to be under obligation to my family, to my neighbours, to the rest of people in society.  Even to the natural world. This is why I keep in touch with my crazy great aunt, call the police if I see people breaking into the neighbour's car, pay my taxes so even prisoners can have universal health coverage, and keep four separate bags for recyclables in my back porch.

 

Calling the police protects you. Paying your taxes protects you. Recycling protects you. And none of those involve interacting with others. You can do all those things as a hermit.

 

If you choose to call your crazy aunt, good for you. But if calling your crazy aunt hurts you in some way - even if she does not feel that is a good reason - then you have no obligation to do so. Personally, I don't want anybody to visit me out of a sense of duty or obligation. Life is too short, for them and for me.

[amy g.]

Personally, I don't want anybody to visit me out of a sense of duty or obligation. Life is too short, for them and for me.

Amen!

[Cindy in FL.]

I don't think that expecting a relationship with your adult children (and grandchildren, even) is a special privilege. Unless you do something that severs your relationship, it should remain intact.

 

Yeah, that's what parents are supposed to do. You don't get special privileges for doing what you're supposed to do. Being able to force your attentions on somebody who doesn't want it - unless they have a "good reason", which nobody will believe in anyway - is a special privilege.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Calling the police protects you. Paying your taxes protects you. Recycling protects you. And none of those involve interacting with others. You can do all those things as a hermit.

 

If you choose to call your crazy aunt, good for you. But if calling your crazy aunt hurts you in some way - even if she does not feel that is a good reason - then you have no obligation to do so. Personally, I don't want anybody to visit me out of a sense of duty or obligation. Life is too short, for them and for me.

 

Yeah, I don't do them because it "protects me". I don't believe that a society of people working in their own interest is a viable one, even if that kind of neoliberal approach seems to have short term gains. 

 

 I do it because that is the nature of the universe - we are all connected to each other, whether we want to be or not.  The web of life is more than a biological concept, it's social, and ethical.  If I'm feeling that I simply don't want to be bothered, that is a problem of my personal desires being out of step with reality on a higher level, just as it is when I want to do things that are bad for nature - they need to repaired if at all possible and it doesn't change my obligation.

 

Margaret Thatcher was wrong about there being no such thing as society, and there is a reason that approach has lead to the dismantaling of a socially responsible society.

[Tanaqui]

I think expecting a relationship with ANYbody is a privilege. I don't get to expect a relationship with my neighbor, or with the hot pharmacist at the drugstore. Having an arbitrary bond of blood with somebody doesn't give me special rights.

 

Unless you do something that severs your relationship, it should remain intact.

 

There's two problems with this reasoning.

 

First, you can't control other people's behavior. You cannot force them to interact with you. That's the situation the OP is in right now.

 

Secondly, when society has this rule, we find that people by and large say that NOTHING is enough to "sever the relationship". My god, my great-grandmother got garbage from her neighbors for cutting her parents out of her life, and they molested her as a child! Her mother used to come around and give candy to all the children on the block but her own grandson, and then say "Not you, your mommy is mean".

 

People always claim "Oh, well, abusive parents, that's a different situation", but when they start from a framework that says that parents are entitled to relationships with their children, they somehow always believe the parents over the children. And then the kids have to suffer not just through their childhood, but through their adulthood as well, as neighbors and relatives and friends, oh-so-well-meaning, keep nagging them to talk to their toxic abuser.

[amy g.]

I don't think that expecting a relationship with your adult children (and grandchildren, even) is a special privilege. Unless you do something that severs your relationship, it should remain intact.

 

 

I agree with you.

 

One thing that stands out to me having taught many children, both neglected and highly privileged is how much children want a close relationship with their parents and how much they want and need to believe that their parents are good.

 

The parent/child bond is very difficult to break.

 

That doesn't mean that I would blame a parent whose child isn't speaking to them or even assume that they have done something wrong.

 

This is why I said that I consider it appropriate, even desirable for young adults to pull away from their parents in order to establish their own adult identities. And yes, I'm old enough to consider mid-thirties still a young adult.

 

Since this question really isn't about blame, let's assume that the mother has done everything as perfectly as humanly possible, and the daughter has other influence or a personality disorder or mental illness that is pulling her away from the relationship.

 

The cause really doesn't matter.

 

The mother has one very strong advantage, that parent/child bond.

 

The only question becomes how can the mother act in the same directional force as the bond rather than against it.

 

If closeness and not control is the goal, a supportive, accepting, non judgmental parent is much easier to return to.

 

Be the rock.

 

Be the love that never wavers.

 

You still can't demand a relationship. That must be freely given, but you do tip the scales in your own favor.

[TCB]

Yeah, I don't do them because it "protects me". I don't believe that a society of people working in their own interest is a viable one, even if that kind of neoliberal approach seems to have short term gains. 

 

 I do it because that is the nature of the universe - we are all connected to each other, whether we want to be or not.  The web of life is more than a biological concept, it's social, and ethical.  If I'm feeling that I simply don't want to be bothered, that is a problem of my personal desires being out of step with reality on a higher level, just as it is when I want to do things that are bad for nature - they need to repaired if at all possible and it doesn't change my obligation.

 

Margaret Thatcher was wrong about there being no such thing as society, and there is a reason that approach has lead to the dismantaling of a socially responsible society.

 

:iagree:  again!

[StephanieZ]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition. 

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want. 

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks. 

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition. 

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support. 

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more. 

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way. 

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents. 

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine. 

[TCB]

You can't demand a relationship with another,  but as a human being I feel I do have obligations towards others even if I don't necessarily have the feeling of wanting to or if it means things don't always work out the very best for me. There has to be a balance of course. There are times when maintaining a relationship, or attempting to maintain a relationship are too dangerous. I think we all have to know where that line is for ourselves. I'm pretty sure that some of you aren't meaning that one should always put oneself and one's needs first but that is almost how it sounds in some posts. I definitely believe that I have obligations towards others that I should do my best to fulfill even when it is uncomfortable for me to do so. 

[Scarlett]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition.

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want.

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks.

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition.

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support.

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more.

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way.

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents.

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine.

QFT.

[FaithManor]

Hugs,

 

I have no idea what is going on, just wanted to say I am sorry you are hurting.

 

For what it is worth, we went through a period of extremely limited contact with my parents early on in our marriage. Most of it was because we were making changes in our faith that they would not have agreed with and worried to death about which in turn would have brought stress to our life. Once we had been married a while and they had relaxed enough that it was not going to be an issue, we began seeing them again. We needed the space though in order to establish healthy boundaries.

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't see any problem with the OPs descrription - at least one person suggested looking into BPD, and passive-aggressive and like a middle schooler are pretty accurate ways to describe that, IMO. 

 

I don't quite get the reaction, people talk about much more personal descriptions of kids all the time - I think it was better to leave it at that than be forced to describe every actual thing going on.

 

Here's the problem with that.  Middle schoolers behave the way they do because their brains aren't fully developed yet, their bodies are undergoing incredible changes hormonally,  and they lack life experience. It's within the range of normal for them to behave the frustrating ways they do because of those things. 

 

When adults have mental illnesses many surface level behaviors can be similar to tween/teen behaviors, but the causes and consequences are so much more significant and aren't within the range of normal.  Belittleing what could very well be an underlying mental illness in the situation the OP describes is a serious matter.  It's interesting that she didn't ask, as many people would in posts like these, if it was possible mental illness was feeding the problem.  Insisting on someone who has a mental illness to just tell her up front because she has "not patience" for it really reads as someone who isn't as concerned about the root of the problem as she is the personal discomfort she's feeling in the situation.  People with mental illness have difficulty identifying and working through thoughts and emotions. They need professional help sorting it all out because they don't know what's going on in side their hearts and minds.

 

I have a daughter and spouse with some mental health issues.  I've had to deal with false accusations of abuse, her leaving to live with relatives and not talking to me  for a few months, erratic emotional behavior, and extended family dynamics related to all that that are ongoing.   I couldn't focus on my feelings as the primary issue-getting her the help and the meds she needed were far more important. We just needed to work the problems and not accuse her of being immature and insisting we don't have patience for it. We didn't focus on the hassle related to dealing with her issues anymore than we focus on the hassle of my SIL's terminal physical illness.  They need treatment, not condemnation and they need support  from us even though it's breaking our hearts and demanding more of us to keep things going. After some psychiatric treatment and some medication, she's doing very well and has been for a couple of years now.

 

I have a niece who is a teen mom and it turns out she had some serious mental health issues going on. It's not always obvious with the super quiet ones.  She had plans to give her 16 month old baby to strangers she met on the internet-no adoption agency involved, no background checks, no home study.  Clearly thinking that was a reasonable option is not on the maturity level of a 20 year old woman.  We could have gone on about how immature it was.  In her case it was actually disassociating, having a personality disorder, etc. Instead, after find out about it, we got some help and convinced her to give us her baby for a week, we got a friend she likes involved because she does placement for fostercare and provides an array for resources for mental health issues, arranged long term care with one of my brothers and SIL who wanted to fostadopt anyway, provided funds for out of pocket costs for mental health, etc.  All of our emotions were running as high as they get at the thought of our sweet baby great niece being given to what surely were human traffickers for the sex trade, but those feelings weren't what we needed to focus on-we focused on underlying problems and how to get the best available help to solve them. We basically said something is terribly terribly wrong to cause her to do this; let's get her the help she needs. No condemnation. No name calling. This was in March.  She's showing some improvement but it's not going to get better over night.  It's going to be years of intensive therapy. Patience is required.

 

So don't assume people unsympathetic to the OP's attitude are unsympathetic to incredibly difficult adult child situations like the OP is facing.

[Guest]

We have a family member who basically disappeared when he was 35, about 30 years ago.  When he comes to visit, it's always to help and he stays 6 weeks and everyone adores him.  But when he is gone, it's like he has left the planet.  He's just ... who he is.  All the siblings ping him and get no response.  I'm the only one who ever does, and it's usually 1-2 words in a text.  He's got friends, gets by, and he's his mom's favorite!  Ha.

 

That said, if his sister went AWOL, uncommunicative, that would be a different story--because that is not who SHE is.  

 

If it is a sudden change, I would be worried, but I think the course with an adult child is "I'm here, and I'll be here...and I love you.  Come see me sometime."  And then ... cry a lot and pray and so on...but there isn't a lot you can do.  

 

 

[nixpix5]

I use this at home with my children:

 

T.H.I.N.K.

 

T: is it true

H: is it helpful

I: is it inspiring

N: is it necessary

K: is it kind

 

while many might say this could be applied to the original post, I believe it is even more critical in response to someone who is on a board asking for help. Yes, it is sometimes the most kind to be honest but the words we use will either open someone's heart and mind or close them off. Many of the responses to OP on here are literally doing exactly what they are accusing her of doing. It is possible to be honest and kind. It is possible to point out blind spots in love.

[Mimm]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition. 

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want. 

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks. 

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition. 

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support. 

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more. 

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way. 

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents. 

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine. 

 

:iagree:  Liking this isn't enough. I can't even imagine valuing my family so little that I didn't feel obligated to have a relationship with them (again, so long as it was not unhealthy for me to have one). I have lucky to have a family that cares deeply about each other. I'm in regular contact with my siblings and we see each other often. My mother has mental health problems that have caused me to back off from our relationship a few times, but in the end, she loves me more than life and is willing to make changes to keep our relationship healthy. So long as she is willing to do this, YES I owe her a relationship. And she owes me one. I'm her daughter, and so long as I wasn't causing her emotional (or physical, or financial, etc) problems, then she OWES me the best mother/daughter relationship she's capable of. I owe my sisters and brothers being the best sister I can be. I owe my kids being the best mom I can be and owe my husband being the best wife. I can't even wrap my brain around thinking I had no obligation to the people in my life and could walk away from them at any time and not feel I had wronged them badly.

[DawnM]

I use this at home with my children:

 

T.H.I.N.K.

 

T: is it true

H: is it helpful

I: is it inspiring

N: is it necessary

K: is it kind

 

while many might say this could be applied to the original post, I believe it is even more critical in response to someone who is on a board asking for help. Yes, it is sometimes the most kind to be honest but the words we use will either open someone's heart and mind or close them off. Many of the responses to OP on here are literally doing exactly what they are accusing her of doing. It is possible to be honest and kind. It is possible to point out blind spots in love.

 

I can't imagine having to consider if my post or words are all of those things.  I am rarely inspiring, and sometimes what I say isn't necessary.  I do try to be truthful, helpful, and kind.  That is about all I can muster.  

 

If I have to be inspiring and necessary as well......I will have to stop posting.

[nixpix5]

I can't imagine having to consider if my post or words are all of those things. I am rarely inspiring, and sometimes what I say isn't necessary. I do try to be truthful, helpful, and kind. That is about all I can muster.

 

If I have to be inspiring and necessary as well......I will have to stop posting.

Haha :) I giggled at this not knowing if you meant it to be funny but I kind of love it ;) Obviously I fall short of many of these things constantly, it is more something to consider then to meet every criteria for. It was just boggling my mind that so many people (not all of course!) were literally doing the exact same thing they were accusing OP of.

 

I just couldn't figure out why someone couldn't say "so I noticed in your original post that your heart towards your daughter sounded a bit harsh. Was that venting or do you think that might be a bigger issue between you and she with regard to communication?"

 

I tend to also use the filter of "if this person said this to me in real life/face to face, would I say it this way in person?"

[Desert Strawberry]

I don't think that expecting a relationship with your adult children (and grandchildren, even) is a special privilege. Unless you do something that severs your relationship, it should remain intact.

 

I don't have adult children, so my opinion and advice are not relevent to OP. I don't think we have enough info to comment on a course of action. I understand that she's mostly venting, and I am sorry that this situation is painful, as it would certainly have to be. 

 

I believe that the only people who can judge my parenting are my children. I don't get to decide for them that I was a great mom. Of course, I am doing my best. I love them. I hope to have a strong relationships with them as adults. But that's their choice, not mine. I don't think that they are obligated to continue our relationship if they find it damaging. and if I raised them to be so selfish and self-involved that they simply have no time for me, well, I guess I'll reap what I sow. 

 

we have been on the other side of this. we have cut my MIL out of our lives. D was estranged from his father many years. My brother cut off all contact with my entire family. These choices are not made lightly or-in our cases-spitefully. I know that there are a lot of people who disapprove of these actions. Especially those with good parents can't imagine NOT wanting to curate that relationship. But not everyone has that privilege. 

 

my mother went to her deathbed defending her parenting. she blamed my brother 100%. He may have been a difficult child. but she was just not up to the task of raising him. at all. I do not blame him at all for having no contact. Even with me. Even when he abandoned me as a small child. I forgive him. Because felt that was what he needed to do. I cannot judge for him. Only he can do that. 

[Tanaqui]

If you're a good person, and a good parent, then - barring a mental illness - your children will want to maintain at least a token level of involvement in your life.

 

But when people frame this as some sort of obligation, what they're saying is that nothing your parents can do is bad enough to cut them off. They may claim that there's exceptions, but nobody writes a 3 paragraph screed if they actually believe those exceptions exist.

 

When you give something to somebody, and there are strings attached, then it's not a gift. You're not obligated to call your surgeon every week just because he gave you a heart transplant. You're not obligated to have a relationship with the woman who pulled you off the train tracks. And no - you're not obligated towards anybody else who made a choice without consulting you.

 

And so long as you're a good parent, and you and your children have no mental health issues, this shouldn't be an issue. Nobody in this world or any other cuts off family members just for the lulz. The fact that some people apparently believe they do is exactly why  we need to firmly clarify that you don't get rights to your adult children just because you happened to give birth to them.

[MinivanMom]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition. 

 

*snip*

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way. 

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

*snip*

 

I think it's a big assumption to claim that everyone's parents "gave [them] life, gave [them] SO SO MUCH". How do you know that? 

 

People here are talking like it's either/or. On one side is that rare exception of a parent who is "toxic" and "abusive", and all other parents must be loving people who did their best. It's not either/or. There is a huge gap in the middle filled with parents who weren't loving, but also weren't abusive. Parents that weren't necessarily toxic, but also weren't there to raise or love or care for their children. And many of those parents love their children. But the love the parent feels doesn't necessary lessen the damage done.

 

The fact that you were "super close" to your loving parents means that you have absolutely no experience or frame of reference to understand what others may be going through in negotiating these difficult relationships as an adult. It is hard to establish new, healthier patterns for your own family if you are constantly being sucked into the dysfunction you came from. 

 

I don't think this is what the op is dealing with (I agree with those who have suggested a possible mental health situation with the adult daughter), but I would be very reluctant to pass judgment on anyone who needs distance from their family of origin. Only they know the real situation, and there, but for the grace of God, go I.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

 Nobody in this world or any other cuts off family members just for the lulz. The fact that some people apparently believe they do is exactly why  we need to firmly clarify that you don't get rights to your adult children just because you happened to give birth to them.

This is just as doctrinaire and just as wrong as the extreme that you are decrying.  Maybe more so.

 

There are, in fact, people who are so self-absorbed or evil or uncaring or narcissistic or selfish that they cut family members off without justification.  There are also terrible parents with whom the only reasonable course of action is to set very strong boundaries and little or no contact.  I have known people on each side of this, and it is not right to portray this as simply as you have in this post or elsewhere in this thread.

 

We are in a society that strongly values independence and devalues any need for interdependence, which complicates things further.

[Tanaqui]

There are, in fact, people who are so self-absorbed or evil or uncaring or narcissistic or selfish that they cut family members off without justification.

 

The only justification they need is "I don't want to talk to that person".

 

And if they're that evil and uncaring, I marvel that their families are upset by this choice.

 

(I will point out here that narcissism is a mental illness - which I already covered. In fact, it's quite possible that all of this is the fault of a mental illness, or the fault of you only having half of a very skewed story.)

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

And if they're that evil and uncaring, I marvel that their families are upset by this choice.

 

 

I'm not.

 

I guess because I have seen it a few times--a kid that someone loves a ton, who for some reason turns into an enemy, despite having been raised well in a good family.  The parents are always going to miss him.  

 

I've seen this with 4 families--a guy who became a drug addict, another guy who just up and disappeared and who expressed that his dad should shoot himself if he ever became incontinent, a woman whose daughter excluded her from her wedding because she was pretty much a social climber, and a woman who was adopted and kind of went nuts on her adoptive family in her teens.  I know the FOO pretty well in 3 out of 4 of those cases, and in all 4 the parents were devastated and wistful from then on.

[sassenach]

QFT.

What does this mean?

 

Just when I finally figured out what IIRC means....

[GinaPagnato]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition. 

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want. 

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks. 

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition. 

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support. 

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more. 

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way. 

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents. 

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine. 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I completely agree with this.

[Guest]

What does this mean?

 

Just when I finally figured out what IIRC means....

 

"Quoted for truth"

[DawnM]

Haha :) I giggled at this not knowing if you meant it to be funny but I kind of love it ;) Obviously I fall short of many of these things constantly, it is more something to consider then to meet every criteria for. It was just boggling my mind that so many people (not all of course!) were literally doing the exact same thing they were accusing OP of.

 

I just couldn't figure out why someone couldn't say "so I noticed in your original post that your heart towards your daughter sounded a bit harsh. Was that venting or do you think that might be a bigger issue between you and she with regard to communication?"

 

I tend to also use the filter of "if this person said this to me in real life/face to face, would I say it this way in person?"

 

No, being quite serious in fact!  Sigh.

 

(see!  Wasn't that an inspiring post? hahahaha!)

[nixpix5]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition.

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want.

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks.

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition.

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support.

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more.

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way.

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents.

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine.

 

I cannot like this enough or agree more.

[sassenach]

"Quoted for truth"

QFT

This.

+1

:iagree:

ITA

 

Even message board speak is a living language.  :lol:

[fraidycat]

I just have to say that it boggles my mind that (some) people (here) don't see an ethical/moral obligation to their parents as part of the human condition.

 

I can agree that if you have TOXIC or EVIL parents, for sure, they've "torn up their parent cards", and I can totally see cutting ties, permanently or for however long you want.

 

And, sure, you can take a break here or there for a few weeks or even months, with a gentle explanation of time needed, if you need that because of something you are going through whether or not it even directly involves your folks.

 

But, short of that, I believe we have a (high) duty to our parents. Filial duty is certainly a foundational tenet of the vast majority of world religions and civilizations across the history of time. I don't think this is a coincidence, but rather a reflection of a core value in the human condition.

 

I don't believe that human beings are solo agents. We are communal creatures, by nature and by rights. We have families and clans, permanent, life-long bonds of reciprocal obligation and support.

 

Exactly how much and what kind of duties we owe to our parents is certainly flexible and up for a lot of leeway, but to think that we don't owe them a relationship? Don't owe them a 10 minute chat most weeks? Don't owe them an occasional visit? Yes, yes, and more.

 

I was super close to both my parents (they're both gone now), and dh *was* super close to his folks up until THEY chose not to exert effort once dh got a very busy life as a more mature adult . . . . We still answer their calls, respond to their outreaches, recognize events, invite them to major events, stop by when we are driving through their area of the country, and we show up for the periodic mandatory family event every few years (wedding across the country this weekend, TYVM, ick, but we're making it fun by adding vacation time for ourselves . . .) We really don't have much in common with them personally/values, have no deep relationships, but we RESPECT them enough to reciprocate kindness and extend grace. TBH, I have plenty of reasons to dislike and resent them, but THEY GAVE ME DH, and, for that, I can and will give them respect and kindness for their entire lives, full stop, no questions.

 

Similarly, your parents (unless they are horrible people), gave you life, gave you SO SO MUCH, that to think you are so unappreciative and, really, indecent, that you'd not be willing to extend yourself just a bit in kindness in a relationship just boggles my mind. I honestly think it'd reflect a serious emotional or mental illness, or a simply awful lack of character, on the adult child's part to reject a loving/good parent that way.

 

What a horrible selfish, awful, ugly, lonesome way to go about life. I'm very glad my family has a deep and abiding culture of filial respect. People in my family take care of their kids, are loving to their grandkids, are "in it together", period. And, those kids and grandkids have genuine appreciation, if not usually plenty of affection, for their elders, show duty towards and reciprocate that caring when it is "our turn."

 

If my adult kids changed this pattern, and rejected relationship with us, it'd break my heart. I'd see it as a great parenting failure that I'd failed to instill those wonderful, enriching, life-affirming relationships among the generations that is the root of everything good that my family has been for hundreds of years. I can look at each and every generation back to my great-great grandparents, each and every one, in my direct ancestral family, and see clearly how greatly their lives were enriched by their parents and grandparents support and also how each of those people, in turn, loved/supported/enriched the lives of their own parents +/- grandparents.

 

And, I'd miss my babies with a profound longing that I can't even fathom; it is too fearsome to imagine.

I could not disagree with this more.

 

And just because something is traditional or historical does not mean it is the right way.

 

And I say this as someone who would willingly give my own life for MY parents, but have no expectation that my own kids need feel the same way about me when they are adults. And I hope they never feel obligated in any way.

 

OP, I'm sorry you are hurting right now. I hope you will get the answers and relationship you wish to have with your daughter.

[Bluegoat]

I think people are too worried that somehow the idea of obligation means there is no love, or somehow it is less authentic as a relationship.

 

Sure, most people don't want to have a relationship where there is only obligation.

 

But the existance of obligation in no way means that other elements are destroyed - love is still there, enjoyment of being together, whatever.  Even love can be a very powerful chosen action when there is no emotional response.

 

If the nice, enjoyable kinds of mutal love are not there, yes that is sad.  But I do not want to live in a society where somehow that means obligation no longer exists.  If family has no obligation, certainly no one else does either - why should strangers care for the unlovable elderly or ill or prisoners or anyone?  Is the obligation only to store and feed these people, no personal interaction? 

 

This sense of individuals as essentially independent and no underlying social bonds, seems to me to be one of the real cultural chasms I find with the US and other countries.

[TravelingChris]

OP. with the additional description of your daughter, I do think there are mental health implications. When you have children with mental health problems and/or development issues/neurologic issues, it really is hard. I have been very fortunate and none of my children have cut us off. But that doesn't mean there aren't hard times sometimes too. I would be extremely sad if we lost our family closetest. We have been able to keep it with differences in religion, politics, etc but I focus on what we have together. In your case, I would suggest maybe asking one of your other children just if they think she is okay and not spiralling down in something. I just know that it is really scary to lose contact. We know of a very nice couple who has a daughter in her late 20's or early 30's who totally rejected her parents all of a sudden. They knew she had serious medical problems. They just kept praying for her. Then, after a break of over two years, she wrote a nice letter to them. I think she became very depressed at her situation with her disease and break up of marriage and probably felt overwhelmed and despondent. They just kept sending occasional letters and gifts.

The next thing I would recommend is either getting counseling yourself as to the loss or maybe finding a NAMI group near you.

 

As to care of parents, I don't think my kids have an obligation to me but I think they feel they do. Just the same way, we felt obligations to help our parents. An obligation out of love and respect, not out of anything else. We had heard that New Jersey was coming after children to take care of parents. My FIL was living in New Jersey not in good circumstances. But we could not help him because he refused our assistance. We want to move him away from a nightmare situation and he was of sound mind and didn't want to. It was very hard for me, in particular. Less so for my dh who had basically written off trying to change any of his family to living better lives. I really mean my FIL was living in a dangerous situation but doing so entirely of his free will and having all his faculties. What could we do? In similar way, we can't run our childrens' lives even when you can see how dangerous their lives may be too. It is extremely hard so prayers for your situation, Op , and yours. DawnM, and all the others I know who are having the tough times.

[StephanieZ]

I think it's a big assumption to claim that everyone's parents "gave [them] life, gave [them] SO SO MUCH". How do you know that? 

 

People here are talking like it's either/or. On one side is that rare exception of a parent who is "toxic" and "abusive", and all other parents must be loving people who did their best. It's not either/or. There is a huge gap in the middle filled with parents who weren't loving, but also weren't abusive. Parents that weren't necessarily toxic, but also weren't there to raise or love or care for their children. And many of those parents love their children. But the love the parent feels doesn't necessary lessen the damage done.

 

The fact that you were "super close" to your loving parents means that you have absolutely no experience or frame of reference to understand what others may be going through in negotiating these difficult relationships as an adult. It is hard to establish new, healthier patterns for your own family if you are constantly being sucked into the dysfunction you came from. 

 

I don't think this is what the op is dealing with (I agree with those who have suggested a possible mental health situation with the adult daughter), but I would be very reluctant to pass judgment on anyone who needs distance from their family of origin. Only they know the real situation, and there, but for the grace of God, go I.

 

Well, I think I'd made it pretty clear that abuse/evil took filial piety off the table, and I'd left the definitions of those terms up to those in their position. I'd never argue with someone who said, "My mom is horribly hateful to me/my kid/my spouse, and so I don't talk to her." Or, whatever, it's not my business on a personal level. We each walk our walk. I was making a very general and principled argument in favor of filial piety. And, it was clearly supportive of OP, so I was not / am not looking to put salt in any wounds. 

 

In general, my post was intended towards the OP's frame of reference -- who doesn't sound evil or awful and who I'd give the benefit of doubt that she, like 90-99% of parents, gave a whole, whole lot to her kids . . . (Gosh, who does NOT, unless, they are, in my mind evil and/or awful people who never deserved kids and surely don't deserve anything from them) and also to another poster who, herself, doesn't expect/require relationships from her OWN kids. That boggles my mind, because unless she understands that she's an evil SOB (very sad, and in which case, I really don't mind offending her), then, in my mind, her kiddo rejecting her outright would be indicative of evil and/or mental illness.

 

So, in that frame work, assuming decent people who tried to do a decent job, and didn't completely f*ck up, and loved/love their kids, then, yep, I totally stand by what I wrote. 

 

We're not islands. We don't come on this earth in isolation and rear ourselves out of an egg on a lonely seashore like a sea turtle or something. Somebody raises us, loves us, makes us who we are, for years to decades, of near constant care and devotion -- just to keep us alive for a dozen years, let alone to get us to be educated and fully functional adults. Most times, it's the parents who do all that. So, we owe them a lot. Period. That's *my* moral and ethical perspective, and a value that is core to who I am. You are utterly free to disagree with me, but I won't waver on it. (And, if it wasn't your parents who did it, maybe you owe it to your aunt or grandma or that foster parent or whoever.) 

 

My parents weren't perfect. Their parents weren't perfect. In my beautiful family tree, I have plenty of dysfunction, addiction, and even some abuse -- mostly fortunately further back in my ancestral lines, but there, for sure. No perfect people in my family, none in my house either, and none in my shoes.

 

We do the best we can with what we're given, become the best we can be with what we can make out of ourselves . . . and part of doing that best we can and being the best we can is BOTH paying it forward to the next generation AND paying it back to the older generations. THAT is the core foundation of my moral universe. I don't worship a deity or believe in any formal religion, but I have a moral code, and that's the core of it, so you won't be successful talking me out of it anymore than I'd be successful talking any of our religious board members out of their beliefs. 

 

I simply find it incredulous that there are those who don't share a basic value of filial piety. I've actually never known anyone, ever, in person, who didn't share that general value. Plenty of people have limited or even no relationship with their parent(s) due to a history of abuse or similar deeply damaging interactions or even just because they have little in common and neither side makes the effort, but, no, before today, I've never known anyone or even heard anyone clearly argue that, barring abuse/neglect/evil, children have a duty to some sort of relationship and respect towards their parents. I find it utterly mind boggling. 

[Guest]

snip

 

I simply find it incredulous that there are those who don't share a basic value of filial piety. I've actually never known anyone, ever, in person, who didn't share that general value. Plenty of people have limited or even no relationship with their parent(s) due to a history of abuse or similar deeply damaging interactions or even just because they have little in common and neither side makes the effort, but, no, before today, I've never known anyone or even heard anyone clearly argue that, barring abuse/neglect/evil, children have a duty to some sort of relationship and respect towards their parents. I find it utterly mind boggling. 

 

In general, I agree, maybe with a soft voice or something.  

 

The thing that I'm piping up here for is to say that in our case, it would be a serious loss to us to judge the Invisible Brother because he is living a very odd and disconnected-from-us life.  He's not a mean or vicious person; he's not mentally ill.  He's just ... himself, and that involves being away.  I miss him and love him to itty bitty pieces and I think he is missing out by being disconnected...but, as a matter of fact, so are we.  But I can't call him wicked or even impious.  And I can't make a good argument in favor of the behavior, either.  It just is.  

[abba12]

In general, my post was intended towards the OP's frame of reference -- who doesn't sound evil or awful and who I'd give the benefit of doubt that she, like 90-99% of parents, gave a whole, whole lot to her kids . . . (Gosh, who does NOT, unless, they are, in my mind evil and/or awful people who never deserved kids and surely don't deserve anything from them)

 

I think part of the problem is that this assumption permeates discussion. 

 

But, truthfully, you've been surrounded by mommy bloggers and pinterest culture and homeschoolers invested in their kids for too long. In actual fact, I doubt 90% are giving 'a whole whole lot to their kids', giving everything of themselves to teach and raise those little ones. There is a great big grey area, as has been mentioned before. There's lots and lots of parents who give 'just enough', people who keep the kids fed and clothed but put very little emotional investment into parenting. They aren't abusive, they just aren't sitting down having the deep discussions with teenagers, or guiding their kids through childhood. They expect daycare and school to pretty much raise the kids, so they don't do any of that emotional development and life skills 'nonsense'. They have some fun times, do some good things, go on holiday, maybe have a family games night from time to time. But they're not really giving 100% to this parenting thing, it's just one more chore alongside cleaning the bathrooms and getting to work on time. And they certainly aren't going above and beyond. It's not because they don't love their kids, they do, very much, but they just don't see parenting as needing to be so hard and drama filled and involved, and figure kids pretty much raise themselves with the help of a good school, food and a roof.

 

I think these types of parents are more common among the low income, but they certainly exist in all demographics. My step mother raises her kids this way and does not understand why they have nothing to do with her when she was little more than an evening babysitter for most of their lives, but she wasn't abusive and definitely wasn't evil, just didn't invest too much effort into parenting. Most of my friends growing up had similar parents. I'm not even saying it's a 'wrong' way to parent, but I understand the lack of obligation to parents who parented like this. There's just no connection to build from.

 

It's not amazing parent or evil, there's a sliding scale, and lets stop pretending that anyone who doesn't beat their kid is an amazing mother worth celebrating. It does a disservice to children who grow up with uninvested, busy-with-other-things parents. Especially today where both parents working is becoming so common, and some families literally only see their kids as they are waking them up and putting them to bed during the week because they've been at extended hours daycare. It takes serious effort to be an involved parent in that situation particularly. I think, being involved homeschooling parents, many of us have lost touch with the fact a lot of parents are only seeing their kids a few hours a day on weekdays, much of that spent on homework. Unless that parent is intentionally talking and connecting during those couple hours (which some do, this isn't a bash against working parents, but I think it is a problem more commonly seen among them due simply to a lack of time making a real relationship a very intentional endeavour, and because stay at home parents are usually staying at home specifically to be an invested parent.) what, exactly, is the child supposed to feel obligated about? Their hard work to keep food on the table? In my experience these families aren't very intentional with their lives and just follow the basic messages of society, so the kids have iphones and the newest video game systems. the parents aren't working for food and shelter, they're working for the luxuries that have become status symbols in our culture. Not something I'd base my obligation to them on, and the reason why there's a huge difference between the single mother struggling to put food on the table who's kids adore her and who makes sure to talk to each one privately before bed every night, and the two income family who's kids have been encouraged to take care of themselves, who have been taught inadvertently that family time is unimportant, and confide more in their teachers than their parents. Kids are smart, and they can see motivations. Same hours, very different situations.

 

None of this is directed to the OP, who it sounds like is probably dealing with mental illness, not poor parenting. 

[Tanaqui]

I've seen this with 4 families--a guy who became a drug addict, another guy who just up and disappeared and who expressed that his dad should shoot himself if he ever became incontinent, a woman whose daughter excluded her from her wedding because she was pretty much a social climber, and a woman who was adopted and kind of went nuts on her adoptive family in her teens.  I know the FOO pretty well in 3 out of 4 of those cases, and in all 4 the parents were devastated and wistful from then on.

 

Well, I can't speak for the social climber, but the other three sound like mental illnesses. Heck, substance abuse IS a mental illness - that's how it's defined.

 

So... I already covered that.