Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

Melissa M

"Why Aren't American Teenagers Working Anymore?" (article)

Recommended Posts

How will it impact a college student's ability to afford college when some kids are lucky to earn $500 over the summer (when many schools are expecting kids to earn closer to $2,000+)? He had really given this a lot of thought, given his own predicament with only getting 4 hours a week so far this summer. Too many kids. Not enough jobs for them.

When my kids attended YMCA summer camps, many camp counselors were undergrads but old timers at being YMCA camp counselors. The summer camp counselor jobs at a nearby city's recreation center filled out within the first day of job opening and pays $15-$22/hr. Some are earning slightly over minimum wage ($11/hr) as TAs for tuition centers summer class.

 

When my husband did some of the summer internships interview in Spring this year, the number of resumes far outnumber the number of positions and his company doesn't pay as high as Facebook, Google and what have you.

 

My neighbors who are undergrads home for the summer are giving tuition if they are not doing internships. There are many looking for tutors to prep their kids in summer for geometry or algebra 2 in Fall. A friend has already asked me for math textbooks so that she can prep her uprising 7th grade son before school starts. The going rate is $20 to $25/hr for an undergrad without a proven tutoring track record.

 

My neighbors sent out emails saying their kids would be home during summer and willing to tutor and/or babysit within the neighborhood around May. It cost at least $1.4k per month per child for summer camp and parents don't mind paying a neighbor's child that amount to babysit two school age kids.

 

What I meant is that kids nowadays have to be more aggressive and lucky to land summer jobs than when I was an undergrad. I earned more than $1.5k per month as an undergrad in summer tutoring high school math and science in the early 90s.

Edited by Arcadia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DS had a lengthy conversation with me the other day.  He believes it of utmost importance to focus on the impact that technological advances are having on employment and the economy.  Will we have to create a different type of economy?  

 

 

Did he happen to read the recent NY Times article about the loss of retail jobs?  Or maybe an article a couple of years ago in the Atlantic about a world without work?

 

It's really interesting to speculate on.  Our economy is based on the premise that human labor has value.  That value can be exchanged for goods and services.  What happens when human labor has no value?  Robots can produce everything but humans have nothing to provide in exchange.  People still need food and shelter, so how do we distribute those things now?  Some have suggested we may be in need of a Universal Basic Income which we collect while filling those few remaining jobs that robots can't do or pursuing hobbies.  Canada and Finland among others are trying this.  Maybe there are other solutions?  

 

(Sorry to get on the crazy train for a while there.)  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Some have suggested we may be in need of a Universal Basic Income which we collect while filling those few remaining jobs that robots can't do or pursuing hobbies. Canada and Finland among others are trying this. Maybe there are other solutions?

 

(Sorry to get on the crazy train for a while there.)

Where in Canada are they doing that???

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just glanced at Wikipedia:

 

Pilot programs

 

As of 2017, the only well established and ongoing cash transfer programs akin to a basic income are the Permanent Fund of Alaska in the United States and Bolsa Família in Brazil. Additionally, several other countries have tested, implemented, or begun planning the following basic income experiments:

 

Experiments with negative income tax in United States and Canada in the 1960s and 1970s.

 

A town in Manitoba, Canada experimented with a basic guaranteed income in the 1970s[31]

 

The Basic Income Grant (BIG) in Namibia, launched in 2008[32]

 

An independent pilot implemented in Sao Paulo, Brazil[33]

 

Several villages in India participated in basic income trial,[34] while the government has proposed a guaranteed basic income for all citizens.[35]

 

The GiveDirectly experiment in Nairobi, Kenya, which is the biggest and longest basic income pilot as of 2017.[36]

 

A study undertaken in rural North Carolina in the U.S.[37]

 

The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands launched an experiment in early 2017 that is testing different rates of aid.[38]

 

Ontario, Canada will implement a basic income trial in summer 2017.[39]

 

The Finnish government implemented a two-year pilot in January 2017 involving 2,000 subjects.[40]

 

Eight, a nonprofit organisation, launched a project in a village in Fort Portal, Uganda in January 2017, providing income for 56 adults and 88 children through mobile money.[41]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did he happen to read the recent NY Times article about the loss of retail jobs?  Or maybe an article a couple of years ago in the Atlantic about a world without work?

 

It's really interesting to speculate on.  Our economy is based on the premise that human labor has value.  That value can be exchanged for goods and services.  What happens when human labor has no value?  Robots can produce everything but humans have nothing to provide in exchange.  People still need food and shelter, so how do we distribute those things now?  Some have suggested we may be in need of a Universal Basic Income which we collect while filling those few remaining jobs that robots can't do or pursuing hobbies.  Canada and Finland among others are trying this.  Maybe there are other solutions?  

 

(Sorry to get on the crazy train for a while there.)  

 

I'm not sure, but after reading both, I would bet he might have read the Atlantic article.  He is fascinated by technology, its rapid advancements, and the potential it holds.  In fact, he just switched majors from a music degree in piano performance to game design and programming.  He wants a skill set that holds the promise of riding the technology wave, but also allows room for creativity (and the possibility of integrating his passion for music).  

 

DS mentioned several of the questions you posed above.  It is interesting to consider, and no worries--I don't think it sounds crazy at all.  It's worth thinking about, because the future is fast approaching.  Better to think now of what might seem impossible or ridiculous, than to never consider it and find out we should have!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did he happen to read the recent NY Times article about the loss of retail jobs?  Or maybe an article a couple of years ago in the Atlantic about a world without work?

 

It's really interesting to speculate on.  Our economy is based on the premise that human labor has value.  That value can be exchanged for goods and services.  What happens when human labor has no value?  Robots can produce everything but humans have nothing to provide in exchange.  People still need food and shelter, so how do we distribute those things now?  Some have suggested we may be in need of a Universal Basic Income which we collect while filling those few remaining jobs that robots can't do or pursuing hobbies.  Canada and Finland among others are trying this.  Maybe there are other solutions?  

 

(Sorry to get on the crazy train for a while there.)  

 

It is interesting to speculate on.  But how depressing to just be given a stipend to scrape by on with no hope for a better future versus having the option of contributing and making a difference in the world.  Not to mention being empowered to improve your own situation through education and hard work.  It may come to a point that we will need to shift to a Universal Basic Income, but I really don't see that basically putting everyone on welfare is going to lead to a happy society.  I don't think you're getting crazy.  It's exactly what they are predicting and I just hope it will take a very long time to get to that point.  I look at my kids and the education we've been able to give them and all that they can do with that now (even though they will be entering a far tougher economy than I faced when I graduated from high school) and I wonder if it will be worth anything at all in 30 years.  But, I try not to think of all that too much because it is just so incredibly depressing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting to speculate on.  But how depressing to just be given a stipend to scrape by on with no hope for a better future versus having the option of contributing and making a difference in the world.  Not to mention being empowered to improve your own situation through education and hard work.  It may come to a point that we will need to shift to a Universal Basic Income, but I really don't see that basically putting everyone on welfare is going to lead to a happy society.  I don't think you're getting crazy.  It's exactly what they are predicting and I just hope it will take a very long time to get to that point.  I look at my kids and the education we've been able to give them and all that they can do with that now (even though they will be entering a far tougher economy than I faced when I graduated from high school) and I wonder if it will be worth anything at all in 30 years.  But, I try not to think of all that too much because it is just so incredibly depressing.  

 

Well, this is all speculative and not really grounded in reality, but I think receiving UBI does not preclude you from also earning additional money in some entrepreneurial way, like being an artist or creating new products to sell.  But because not all of us are wired to be artists or entrepreneurs, a UBI without a means test (so slightly different from welfare...everyone gets a UBI no matter how much money you make) gives everyone the freedom from living in abject poverty.  

 

Frankly, it's much like my life now.  I'm a SAHM, who makes a little extra money tutoring.  Courtesy of my husband, I have a type of UBI which enables me to pursue hobbies, does not preclude me from earning more money (because my husband does not give me a means test to disqualify me), and allows me to homeschool my kids, and I'm free to read and learn more.  I don't feel any lack of hope, and I'm generally pretty happy that I get all this money for free basically.  

Edited by daijobu
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this is all speculative and not really grounded in reality, but I think receiving UBI does not preclude you from also earning additional money in some entrepreneurial way, like being an artist or creating new products to sell. But because not all of us are wired to be artists or entrepreneurs, a UBI without a means test (so slightly different from welfare...everyone gets a UBI no matter how much money you make) gives everyone the freedom from living in abject poverty.

 

Frankly, it's much like my life now. I'm a SAHM, who makes a little extra money tutoring. Courtesy of my husband, I have a type of UBI which enables me to pursue hobbies, does not preclude me from earning more money (because my husband does not give me a means test to disqualify me), and allows me to homeschool my kids, and I'm free to read and learn more. I don't feel any lack of hope, and I'm generally pretty happy that I get all this money for free basically.

I hope it all works out that way, but I can see an awful lot of people no longer feeling like they have a purpose, UBI or no UBI. I do wonder how much opportunity there will be to earn additional income if everyone needs a UBI? I obviously don't have the answers, but the idea of so many jobs being replaced by computers -- everything from cashiers to anesthesiologists -- is quite chilling to me.

 

I can't remember the details and I'm terrible at retelling things, but I heard an anecdote about there being a lot of speculation at one point that NYC was going to be a disaster because so many horses would be in use for transportation as the city grew, the entire city would be buried in manure. No one could see a solution at the time. That story made me feel better because it makes me think some unknown solution will come along. I hope so. 🙂

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just glanced at Wikipedia:

 

Pilot programs

 

As of 2017, the only well established and ongoing cash transfer programs akin to a basic income are the Permanent Fund of Alaska in the United States and Bolsa Família in Brazil. Additionally, several other countries have tested, implemented, or begun planning the following basic income experiments:

 

Experiments with negative income tax in United States and Canada in the 1960s and 1970s.

 

A town in Manitoba, Canada experimented with a basic guaranteed income in the 1970s[31]

 

The Basic Income Grant (BIG) in Namibia, launched in 2008[32]

 

An independent pilot implemented in Sao Paulo, Brazil[33]

 

Several villages in India participated in basic income trial,[34] while the government has proposed a guaranteed basic income for all citizens.[35]

 

The GiveDirectly experiment in Nairobi, Kenya, which is the biggest and longest basic income pilot as of 2017.[36]

 

A study undertaken in rural North Carolina in the U.S.[37]

 

The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands launched an experiment in early 2017 that is testing different rates of aid.[38]

 

Ontario, Canada will implement a basic income trial in summer 2017.[39]

 

The Finnish government implemented a two-year pilot in January 2017 involving 2,000 subjects.[40]

 

Eight, a nonprofit organisation, launched a project in a village in Fort Portal, Uganda in January 2017, providing income for 56 adults and 88 children through mobile money.[41]

Oh, ok, I thought you meant more recently than the 70's.... although if Ontario is going to try soon that is interesting...

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really interesting to speculate on.  Our economy is based on the premise that human labor has value.  That value can be exchanged for goods and services.  What happens when human labor has no value?  Robots can produce everything but humans have nothing to provide in exchange.  People still need food and shelter, so how do we distribute those things now?  Some have suggested we may be in need of a Universal Basic Income which we collect while filling those few remaining jobs that robots can't do or pursuing hobbies.  Canada and Finland among others are trying this.  Maybe there are other solutions?  

 

 

Robots cannot produce "everything".

There are things humans can contribute that are far more than mechanical labor: creativity, imagination, compassion. Things that make humans special.

These are not just "a few remaining jobs". There will be new jobs we cannot even imagine yet. Twentyfive years ago nobody could have imagined that computers would create billion dollar industries.

And there are many jobs humans will prefer to have done by humans - anything where human interaction is key to success.

 

The solution is education, flexibility, and - hopefully- the realization that we cannot expect things to go back to how they were fifty years ago. There are jobs that have died out, as with every technological invention. People need to accept that and not try to bring back inefficient technologies of the "good old days". It's not going to happen.

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taxes on nonpension employees are so high right now that a family can't cover medical and education even woth both parents working. People around here go for disability to compensate, since SSI gives the children enough for community college and food. With all the seniors and noncitizens in jobs that young people used to have, the only thing left is back to grow your own food. Or enlist unless they can get enough education loans.

Edited by Heigh Ho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...