Accelerated Learner forums question

[4KookieKids]

 

Third, we need to know we aren't crazy.  For that, private conversations are essential.  We can research blogs and read others' posts to gain some valuable insight, but we and our kids are not living a normal life.  We may try to make it as normal as possible, but the reality is these kids defy norms.  Most people assume we are vainly forcing our children to exceed their natural limits.  They cannot comprehend that we are trying to slow them, allow them to mature, encourage them to engage with a population that is so thoroughly unlike them.  They cannot understand that we might happily have "normal" kids, if only our kids would be happy as a result.  They don't grasp how a 10-year old could pull herself out of organized play activities because they are too intense, or how a 3-year old could prefer days of starvation above eating a strange new food.  The only things I have seen other adults recognize correctly are that the kids are unusually bright, and that their eccentricities are part of who they are and how they think.

 

I'm not sure my kids fit in the pg crowd, but I so identify with this. I don't know that I could've said it myself, but thank you.

 

[4KookieKids]

I wanted to add that this group has also been super helpful in helping me identify things that I didn't even realize were related to giftedness and that is been treating like disciplinary issue. My most recent example is summer break: kids lost it within two weeks and were just getting in more trouble each day for bad attitudes, mean behaviors, etc. And I'd tried dealing with it in "normal ways" that other friends suggested, because obviously it's a heart issue, right? And I just need to discipline and train them better, right? And nothing is working and I'm at my wits' end from fighting with them all the time. Then I read on here how lots of gifted kids don't do well with downtime and they need to stay busier, and a light bulb goes on, and I start my kids on "school" again, and they grumble about it a little, but then return to their normal selves and stop the horrible attitudes and spitefulness.

It's this mixing of #s 1 & 3 (that Mike mentioned) on this forum that really helps me, and held me to have more confidence that I'm not just crazy or a bad parent. :)

 

 

 

Edited to fix auto-corrects in-corrections...

Edited June 13, 2017 by 4kookiekids

[quark]

I wanted to add that this group has also been super helpful in helping me identify things that I didn't even realize were related to giftedness and that is been treating like disciplinary issue. My most recent example is summer break: kids lost it within two weeks and we're just getting in more trouble each day for bad attitudes, mean behaviors, etc. And I'd tried calling with it in "normal ways" that other friends suggested, because obviously it's a heart issue, right? And I just need to discipline and train them better, right? And then I read on here how lots of gifted kids don't do well with downtime and they need to stay busier, and a light bulb goes on, and I start my kids on "school" again, and they grumble about it a little, but then return to their normal selves and stop the horrible attitudes and spitefulness.

 

It's this mixing of #s 1 & 3 in Mike's post that really helps me, and held me to have more confidence that I'm not just crazy or a bad parent. :)

Mike said it perfectly and so did you. For these kids, learning is their meaningful activity. Perhaps given downtime, they would naturally turn to learning but some kids like structure too, knowing how and where to devour information and given a guide to do so fulfills that need more quickly perhaps?

 

Sometimes, when people tell me they are impressed by how A is so "academic" all the time I wish I could explain how much the kid needs it. It is therapy in so many ways.

[TerriM]

No it doesn't! It's cool. I went back to check posts I made from years ago, and even posts where other people quoted me from years ago, and it's all in the new name. :) Private messages, everything.

 

Really?  That's awesome!  (I always admire a programmer who thinks through the hard stuff)

[TerriM]

I said I'd come back tomorrow but this post is gnawing at me and I will be unable to sleep with that going on...besides, it's technically "tomorrow" here.  :laugh:

 

 

If this sounds silly please chalk it up to it being past my bedtime after a very busy day...

 

I think these kids are constantly searching for something you know? Some truth, some answer to those questions that are always circulating within.

 

.....

 

I know you have chickens so maybe it's not animals that she needs. Maybe she needs a different purpose. Or maybe she just needs to know she is heard.

 

As a kid, my sense of purpose in life  came from knowing what  comes after death and having a relationship with God.   Now, I admit, I know I don't maintain that relationship now the way I wish I could.  Now, day to day I'm running around for the family, which, like dogs, gives you a purpose for living in knowing that another creature relies on you for their own life.  But I think as a kid, I had a lot of time to think about God and life and death philosophically and it helped me to not be anxious about the meaning of life.

[mathnerd]

Social groups here can be set to private, can't they?

Keep us posted if someone starts a private social group for ALs here ...

 

To answer the OP, I am on a private google group of similar kids who we know IRL. It is easy to talk about our kids because they know each other. I discuss only stuff like curriculum, sports, music etc and not issues related to personal struggles. I try to keep all private information off the internet because, the internet is never private. I do talk to parents of ALs in person about our struggles or triumphs and that is about it.

I have tried other forums like hoagies, davidson etc but never got anything worthwhile for me out of those forums.

Edited June 13, 2017 by mathnerd

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Do you think it is open to the types of questions the posters on this thread seem to have? If something exists, I don't want spread people too thin.

 

To the bolded: I agree with you Ella. 

 

You've opened up a discussion that clearly a lot of us want to be part of.  I wouldn't want us all to disperse across a range of forums. I think the key is finding a way to have us all feel comfortable with the level of sharing.

 

Maybe a private social group here is an option?

 

Maybe we keep just using this board and only share what we feel comfortable with?

 

I really don't know.

 

But I do know that I need this sense of community and understanding and the reassurance that our crazy existence isn't just us. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I said I'd come back tomorrow but this post is gnawing at me and I will be unable to sleep with that going on...besides, it's technically "tomorrow" here.  :laugh:

 

 

If this sounds silly please chalk it up to it being past my bedtime after a very busy day...

 

I think these kids are constantly searching for something you know? Some truth, some answer to those questions that are always circulating within. I don't feel that I am as smart as my kiddo but even with that limitation, my mind is constantly working, always needing to chomp on something. By the time I am done thinking through all these things in one day, I am already exhausted! Kiddo and I are not physically active by any stretch of the imagination, but kiddo is so mentally active, always thinking all the time and finds it hard to sleep early because of that. I used to be that way and then age hit and now I feel so tired each day from just thinking. When I have nothing else to think about I create new projects for myself (just painted every bit of furniture in my house that I could, yes, even kiddo's prized black study desk is now a pristine white lol). And I do this even after working a few hours a day outside the home. I am always searching, needing to do something with my hands, my mind, my thoughts, needing to see some kind of end result, something productive. And if that project ends up looking pretty, I finally feel some satisfaction from having been productive. That's my quest...being productive, hopefully creating something meaningful and pretty at the end of the day and if possible having helped someone in some way too.  Today, I did not create anything pretty so I started researching bullet journals, grabbed an old half used moleskin notebook and just finished a BJ spread. Now I think I can go to sleep feeling somewhat satisfied with my day. This despite an already really busy day. And I am not even half as intellectual/ mental stimulation-requiring as my offspring.

 

So...given how young our kids are...what can they control? They cannot go out there and buy paint and furniture as easily as we can for example. They cannot adopt a dog out of the blue (another one of my projects when I needed more stimulation). They end up thinking because it is the easiest thing available to them. Being kids, they don't have the life experience to know that everyone makes mistakes, and that most everyone learns from those mistakes, or that people can get sick and pass away but that people can also get sick and get well. They probably know these things but their thoughts are not solid enough in a way that could give them reassurance like our more experienced minds do. At least that's what I think happens. You could have been describing my kid in your post because this is exactly what my A does too.

 

I've had to show a lot of tough love. I know it's probably not the best thing for every kid but for A I think it works. Again, I worry when I do it because I used to "hide" a lot as a kid. I would pretend I was ok just so others would not be worried about me or so they would not bug me. I hope that's not what A is doing. A is a much happier kid than I was when I was a kid so I think perhaps A is ok after all. But maybe I will never know. But what I do is to hug and love and baby A in some ways but also show tough love when I think that's what will help. I tough love A by giving A a purpose. Caring for the dogs, helping at the library, teaching math to others, cleaning the house for me when I am away at work etc. I praise A when I come home and always, always try my best to show how much I appreciate this kid. But the kid needs to have something that helps project feelings away from inner turmoil and towards expending that energy on others. I give A structure. I give A rules. I show A that I expect high standards but that I can also be silly about them. When we use energy with a purpose we feel so much better about ourselves.

 

Time has really helped A a lot. It was a day-by-day thing though. It did not always work. There were times when I just wanted to hug A tight and rock my baby to sleep. The anxiety was so crippling some days. But we pulled through by finding a purpose (or several purposes). We learned to create our own happiness. Honestly, I joke with people that I spent on my dogs what I could have spent on therapists and reaped so much more in return. Our dogs have multiple personalities and whole stories revolving around them for the simple reason that it makes us laugh every day and almost every time we are together. Anyone listening in would think we are truly off our rockers but that's what I do to give this kid the ability to create joy from within. Books help as do some TV shows (I Love Lucy was a huge help a while back). But nothing gets us laughing more than the funny dog stories we make up.

 

I did this because at the time I was not in a position to seek professional help. Luckily A seems to have grown out of that extreme anxiety. We are seeking professional help now but for another reason and I think A has enough inner strength now to cope well even if we did not end up using this therapist for long. But some kids will need that help, I wish I knew for sure which kids and when and it's something you will need to figure out. You might need to figure it out via lots of trial and error but don't be afraid to make those errors. We cannot always know everything right? Just like our kids, we need to make certain errors in judgment to learn from them.

 

I know you have chickens so maybe it's not animals that she needs. Maybe she needs a different purpose. Or maybe she just needs to know she is heard.

 

Thanks, Quark.

I always appreciate your wise words. I've read this through several times and you've really hit the nail on the head, particularly with regards to needing stimulation and productivity. Oh, and humour. Definitely humour.

I love that you get it.

Thanks so much.

 

I'm always searching for that elusive sweet spot that exists somewhere between structure and flexibility, and has that exact right level of challenge, and is also productive and fun .... every now and then we hit that sweet spot and it is GLORIOUS. Wow, we soar, you know?

 

When the anxieties start to snowball, maths is our therapist.

We recently had a rough couple of weeks and AoPS challenge problems and maths contest problems somehow got us out of that difficult loop of behaviours. My daughter's brain was busy enough to not be able to focus on her worries for a while.

 

We need brain and hands busy ALL THE TIME.  This is one reason I guess that piano is a big hit here.

 

And thank you for reminding me that she needs to be heard. I do listen and I try so hard to be patient and understanding. It's hard to know how much attention to give anxious thoughts, though, because I feel I could be strengthening those thoughts and possibly digging that rut a bit deeper and inadvertently making it harder to climb out of.

 

Purpose. Yes. This is definitely needed. Not easy to find at age 11, when you care about everything and want to know everything and worry about everything.

 

Thanks for listening, Quark.

You're a whole box of awesome wrapped up with an awesome bow.

[JenneinCA]

I have been thinking about the recent turn of this thread and I wanted to explain a little why I don't post about more than just academics...

 

I have extreme kids and I do talk mostly about the academic stuff.... because the internet is searchable and I don't want to put my kids' personal information out there. And the fact that my older kids are very very knowledgable about all things internet. They know my most likely usernames. They know my most likely spots to hang out and talk. And while they have assured me that they do not frequent this board I have no guarantees that they won't in the future.

 

And I can't risk my relationship with them by posting stuff. I only post on this or any other board things I am willing to have blown up billboard size and placed where they can see. I live a life of always double checking my words in print because I can't take them back and they will be shown to me out of context and at the worst possible time. That is just the hand I have been dealt.

 

I am glad to be here, but this is a very lonely road from my point of view and it is unlikely to ever change.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

A slightly different perspective here...

 

I think this site does well while others struggle because it fulfills a purpose - several, probably.  Among the big needs we as AL parents have: 

 

First, we need to know what our academic options are.  This site hits the nail on the head.  As far as I can tell, the majority of identified PG kids are home schooled because they have no other options.  Identifying and implementing advanced curriculum is challenging, and this site addresses the challenge head-on, and efficiently.

 

Second, we need to find ways to keep the kids happy, or at least sated.  Activities are not really the problem.  I don't believe most of our kids are really starved for activities (though they may be demanding ones!). We can find activities.  However, because of their quirks, it can be very difficult for our kids to find peers who are like-minded.  This site offers no help on this front, and does not pretend to.  I would have to say that is the single largest void we, as parents, have not been able to address successfully.

 

Third, we need to know we aren't crazy.  For that, private conversations are essential.  We can research blogs and read others' posts to gain some valuable insight, but we and our kids are not living a normal life.  We may try to make it as normal as possible, but the reality is these kids defy norms.  Most people assume we are vainly forcing our children to exceed their natural limits.  They cannot comprehend that we are trying to slow them, allow them to mature, encourage them to engage with a population that is so thoroughly unlike them.  They cannot understand that we might happily have "normal" kids, if only our kids would be happy as a result.  They don't grasp how a 10-year old could pull herself out of organized play activities because they are too intense, or how a 3-year old could prefer days of starvation above eating a strange new food.  The only things I have seen other adults recognize correctly are that the kids are unusually bright, and that their eccentricities are part of who they are and how they think.

 

I would love to find a network to discuss challenges.  I fear, though, that in order to go broadly enough to find like-minded families, the forum would have to become one of the "others."  If we only aim to tackle need #3, a private group may be successful.  If it's #1, then we could splinter and actually do damage to other families yet to face our challenges.

 

Personally, I'm game for anything - raising HG/PG kids is just that nutty.

 

I agree with everything here.

I ramble on about punch and cheezels and sweet spots and here you've said everything so articulately.  :o

[lewelma]

I quit posting personal stuff once my older son became clearly identifiable. The problem is that you can't give a clear picture about who your child is if you are only posting the good stuff.  I found this to be quite discouraging because I used this board for years to help me through some serious issues, and now I really can't. I'm up for a private group on this board.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Grover]

 

 

But I do know that I need this sense of community and understanding and the reassurance that our crazy existence isn't just us. 

this, this, oh YES, this!  This is what I have found on the private forum - I know I'm not alone, and I know it's not going to turn up in some random internet searh in 15 years time.

[MamaSprout]

I looks like, yes, a social group can be private. So what shall we call it? I think should covey the idea that it builds upon the academic side of the AL board rather than replacing it. Thoughts?

[purpleowl]

I just set up a private social group here. I'll try to add people who expressed interest in this thread, but give me a little bit of time. :) And if I miss you, PM me to request to be added.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Thank you, Ella, for getting the ball rolling and opening this (clearly needed) discussion.

 

And thank you, Amanda, for taking that ball and running with it.

 

 

I'm in.

 

I'll warn you all now.

I have a big ol' can of juicy worms just waiting to be opened ... 

[purpleowl]

Okay, I think I've sent all the invites, so if I missed you (or if you didn't post in this thread but want to be added), please PM me.

 

For extra-super privacy, I set it so people have to be both invited AND approved for membership. So when you get the invite, accept it or whatever it tells you to do, and then I'll approve it as soon as I can. :)

[quark]

Thanks for listening, Quark.

You're a whole box of awesome wrapped up with an awesome bow.

 

Aw shucks, thank you ccc!  :001_wub:

 

We've come a long way kiddo and I but nothing close to the experience of posters who have many kids, including yourself. We are at a point however, where the academics don't seem to worry me anymore. It's not only due to kiddo having been accepted to uni but because life as a whole has taken such a turn that the academic aspect, while still important to the both of us, seems so much more manageable than the challenges we are now facing. I am immensely thankful that kiddo and I built this close bond because that's what's really, really helping us right now.

 

When I think of your girl, I think of what an amazing support system she has in her family members.  Her mom. her siblings and whomsoever else cares enough to shower her with love and concern. I hope she can find comfort in that. Eleven is a hard age. On the cusp of so many things with a mind that embraces anything quickly and deeply. I hope she keeps finding joy in the present to keep worries of the future at bay.

 

If you can share what some of her anxieties are, perhaps we could collectively find more ideas to help her.  :grouphug:

[Arcadia]

And I can't risk my relationship with them by posting stuff. I only post on this or any other board things I am willing to have blown up billboard size and placed where they can see.

My oldest read over my shoulder without warning sometimes and he is a hyper fast reader.

 

The private social groups glitch sometimes. If I click on the links in recent topics, I have seen entire threads in social groups that I'm not a member of. The most recent glitch for me on this board was for the Orthodox Christianity social group.

[quark]

Okay, I think I've sent all the invites, so if I missed you (or if you didn't post in this thread but want to be added), please PM me.

 

For extra-super privacy, I set it so people have to be both invited AND approved for membership. So when you get the invite, accept it or whatever it tells you to do, and then I'll approve it as soon as I can. :)

 

Thank you!  :thumbup:

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Aw shucks, thank you ccc!  :001_wub:

 

We've come a long way kiddo and I but nothing close to the experience of posters who have many kids, including yourself. We are at a point however, where the academics don't seem to worry me anymore. It's not only due to kiddo having been accepted to uni but because life as a whole has taken such a turn that the academic aspect, while still important to the both of us, seems so much more manageable than the challenges we are now facing. I am immensely thankful that kiddo and I built this close bond because that's what's really, really helping us right now.

 

When I think of your girl, I think of what an amazing support system she has in her family members.  Her mom. her siblings and whomsoever else cares enough to shower her with love and concern. I hope she can find comfort in that. Eleven is a hard age. On the cusp of so many things with a mind that embraces anything quickly and deeply. I hope she keeps finding joy in the present to keep worries of the future at bay.

 

If you can share what some of her anxieties are, perhaps we could collectively find more ideas to help her.  :grouphug:

 

I'll see if I get brave enough to share some details in the private group ... 

 

I know you're going through a whole lot of stuff right now, Quark.

I think of you often and I wish you all the best.

 

I'm so glad you and A are so strong.

[ebunny]

What I'm hoping for is an accelerated/(insert label) kids forum where the next gen from this board can communicate with like minded peers across the world. That would be a game changer in my life.

 

As DD gets older, I find I'm hesitant to discuss her emotional and intellectual phases in great detail online or IRL.

 

 

[Cake and Pi]

I'm late to the party, but I brought cake AND pie.  Can I play too?

[TerriM]

My oldest read over my shoulder without warning sometimes and he is a hyper fast reader.

 

The private social groups glitch sometimes. If I click on the links in recent topics, I have seen entire threads in social groups that I'm not a member of. The most recent glitch for me on this board was for the Orthodox Christianity social group.

 

Ooops.  Maybe we should delete threads after a couple of months?

[pinewarbler]

Second, we need to find ways to keep the kids happy, or at least sated.  Activities are not really the problem.  I don't believe most of our kids are really starved for activities (though they may be demanding ones!). We can find activities.  However, because of their quirks, it can be very difficult for our kids to find peers who are like-minded.  This site offers no help on this front, and does not pretend to.  I would have to say that is the single largest void we, as parents, have not been able to address successfully.

 

I wish I knew how to fill this void. I have only found them one other PG kid in 13 years of looking hard. She adored them the second they met and vice versa.

Both kids just have lots of friends who would be more appropriately labelled acquaintances. My youngest calls them 'bus stop' people... from toddler age he explains to me that you need to collect a lot of them... you never know when you'll be waiting somewhere and need someone to talk to. I realized how open he was, not judging people, and he's still like that. However, having a lot of people who you can talk to is not having friends or true peers. My eldest THINKS she has found one peer at high school - the school has well over 1,000 students and she joined every single club that had older grades participating. I swear she met everyone this year... and she MIGHT have found one friend. I'm not sure there is a solution to this.

 

 

Third, we need to know we aren't crazy.  

Most people assume we are vainly forcing our children to exceed their natural limits.  They cannot comprehend that we are trying to slow them, allow them to mature, encourage them to engage with a population that is so thoroughly unlike them.  They cannot understand that we might happily have "normal" kids, if only our kids would be happy as a result.  

 

This forum is the ONLY reason I know that I am not crazy :lol: 

I cannot discuss my kids achievements/ developments, even with friends who have gifted kids... none of them have HG or PG kids.

The other day walking with a close friend who has 2 gifted kids, I felt exhausted when I realized that I couldn't even tell her how excited I was that my eldest had just placed well in a local university math contest. I'm tired of editing everything I say.

And recently, when something accidentally does come to light about my kids' achievements, (eg. a public school award) I realize that parents are now crossing playgrounds  to "bump into" me to congratulate me and to say loudly what a 'GREAT PARENT' I am. They do this through gritted teeth with anger radiating from them.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

 

Second, we need to find ways to keep the kids happy, or at least sated.  Activities are not really the problem.  I don't believe most of our kids are really starved for activities (though they may be demanding ones!). We can find activities.  However, because of their quirks, it can be very difficult for our kids to find peers who are like-minded.  This site offers no help on this front, and does not pretend to.  I would have to say that is the single largest void we, as parents, have not been able to address successfully.

 

I wish I knew how to fill this void. I have only found them one other PG kid in 13 years of looking hard. She adored them the second they met and vice versa.

Both kids just have lots of friends who would be more appropriately labelled acquaintances. My youngest calls them 'bus stop' people... from toddler age he explains to me that you need to collect a lot of them... you never know when you'll be waiting somewhere and need someone to talk to. I realized how open he was, not judging people, and he's still like that. However, having a lot of people who you can talk to is not having friends or true peers. My eldest THINKS she has found one peer at high school - the school has well over 1,000 students and she joined every single club that had older grades participating. I swear she met everyone this year... and she MIGHT have found one friend. I'm not sure there is a solution to this.

 

 

Third, we need to know we aren't crazy.  

Most people assume we are vainly forcing our children to exceed their natural limits.  They cannot comprehend that we are trying to slow them, allow them to mature, encourage them to engage with a population that is so thoroughly unlike them.  They cannot understand that we might happily have "normal" kids, if only our kids would be happy as a result.  

 

This forum is the ONLY reason I know that I am not crazy :lol: 

I cannot discuss my kids achievements/ developments, even with friends who have gifted kids... none of them have HG or PG kids.

The other day walking with a close friend who has 2 gifted kids, I felt exhausted when I realized that I couldn't even tell her how excited I was that my eldest had just placed well in a local university math contest. I'm tired of editing everything I say.

And recently, when something accidentally does come to light about my kids' achievements, (eg. a public school award) I realize that parents are now crossing playgrounds  to "bump into" me to congratulate me and to say loudly what a 'GREAT PARENT' I am. They do this through gritted teeth with anger radiating from them.

 

Pinewarbler, I love it when you join in. You always have things to say that I find myself nodding along to.

[lewelma]

I am so grateful that my older ds has one true peer. They are currently at the library studying math together for 6 hours.  :thumbup1:  Unfortunately, his friend goes to Cambridge in August, so ds's last year of high school will be solitary again. We are willing to spend the big bucks to find peers for him at university.  It is just that important. 
 
I am also grateful for my younger ds's ability to connect with anyone regardless of level.  One of his good friends is 3.5 years his junior.  I think it has to do with being the second son in a family of two kids.  Younger ds would have loved to be an older brother, which is why he is honestly happy to play and find joy in younger kids.  He also simply connects with others without needing to resort to intellectual conversation.  He is in drama, gymnastics, swimming, badminton, multisport, technicraft, trio, and string group, and he can connect with kids through these activities with a real sense of joy. I honestly think he gets all he needs in peers from his older brother.
 
Ruth in NZ

Edited June 15, 2017 by lewelma

[pinewarbler]

Thanks for that reminder lewelma. My kids have a great bond too.

Instead of spending more time practicing for the strings concert next weekend, they have driven me insane this week practicing singing the Very Model of a Modern Major General from Pirates of Penzance as fast as possible. They love the vocab, the speed, and that elements song some guys sings on youtube to the same tune. Somehow physics gets twisted into everything. They will find something like that and do it until they've memorized it regardless of consequences from Mom! And then I take a step back and realize that they're close friends!

[epi]

I am so grateful that my older ds has one true peer. They are currently at the library studying math together for 6 hours.  :thumbup1:  Unfortunately, his friend goes to Cambridge in August, so ds's last year of high school will be solitary again. We are willing to spend the big bucks to find peers for him at university.  It is just that important.

 

I agree it's a good idea to go to the academically best universities possible, rather than something local, for undergraduate. (I didn't do this and it was a mistake.) I'm curious about the issue of costs. Some of the elite American universities have very good financial age aid packages, if applicable, (though that could still leave a residual cost that is still "big bucks").

 

(Edit: typo.)

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by epi

[ebunny]

 

 

I wish I knew how to fill this void. I have only found them one other PG kid in 13 years of looking hard. She adored them the second they met and vice versa.

Both kids just have lots of friends who would be more appropriately labelled acquaintances. My youngest calls them 'bus stop' people... from toddler age he explains to me that you need to collect a lot of them... you never know when you'll be waiting somewhere and need someone to talk to. I realized how open he was, not judging people, and he's still like that.

 

However, having a lot of people who you can talk to is not having friends or true peers. My eldest THINKS she has found one peer at high school - the school has well over 1,000 students and she joined every single club that had older grades participating. I swear she met everyone this year... and she MIGHT have found one friend. I'm not sure there is a solution to this.

 

 

 

 

 

wrt: Bolded

 

I found my peers at the age of 25 (approx a decade ago). Most of them were 60+ yr olds then, but they were such interesting people who had lead fascinating lives. I found another group of peers when I went back for my grad degree; this time they were the 25 yr olds. :laugh:

 

 Friends are hard to find and keep; especially when one's tribe is statistically non-normative. My DD has been lucky to find a few friends; personality attributes+character compatibility rather than common interests. Its definitely easier that way.

 

ETA: I went back and forth whether to post what I'm about to, but decided to go ahead. The underlined part of the post bothered me deeply. Especially the 'collecting' of people so that one has someone to talk to. Even figuratively speaking, viewing those cognitively average or otherwise as objects to be collected or bus stop people, is....dismissive and depreciative. :sad:

Maybe I've misunderstood, if so, I apologise.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Ebunny

[quark]

We are willing to spend the big bucks to find peers for him at university. It is just that important.

 

I am trying to understand the reasons behind this sentiment. Why do you think you need to spend big bucks to find peers Ruth? Not being snarky. Just trying to understand. Is it because of the big fish small pond scenario you often refer to and big bucks meaning having to send him across the world to the US in general?

[lewelma]

Please don't quote:

 

Yes, across the world is expensive no matter how you parse it.  And when I put the numbers through a currency translator, there is just no way not to see it as a huge expense, way way way more than sending him to Auckland.  Not only do I have tuition and housing like everyone else, but we also have to think airplane trips and health insurance.  The numbers are just high, way higher than locally (like 10x the cost of living at home and going here, and 2x the cost of Auckland).

 

Plus, I have gone round and round on this, but he is ready to be a small fish in a big pond.  He has been the big fish for too long in NZ.  How do you think it affects your psyche to be ranked #3 and have your best friend be ranked #1?  the pond is just too small.  There is no challenge. There are no peers.  Sure he can jump up to grad level classes and work with professors, but he wants same-aged peers.  He wants to know he is not some odd ball, a freak, a 'genius'. He is tired of being the best and the youngest everywhere he goes.  I think it is a personality thing.  And unfortunately, an expensive one.

Edited June 15, 2017 by lewelma

[Mike in SA]

 

 

ETA: I went back and forth whether to post what I'm about to, but decided to go ahead. The underlined part of the post bothered me deeply. Especially the 'collecting' of people so that one has someone to talk to. Even figuratively speaking, viewing those cognitively average or otherwise as objects to be collected or bus stop people, is....dismissive and depreciative. :sad:

Maybe I've misunderstood, if so, I apologise.

 

Just to be clear, it wasn't my quote, but a reply...

 

That said, kids are kids.  They say things in funny and often inappropriate ways.  PG 5 year olds are still 5 year olds whose lives revolve around their families.  Other people are other people: different.  The children's observations may not reflect the character we plan to instill in them.  I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[ebunny]

Just to be clear, it wasn't my quote, but a reply...

 

That said, kids are kids. They say things in funny and often inappropriate ways. PG 5 year olds are still 5 year olds whose lives revolve around their families. Other people are other people: different. The children's observations may not reflect the character we plan to instill in them. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

My response wasn't directed at you, but at pinewarbler. The quote feature messed it up.

[Guest]

 The underlined part of the post bothered me deeply. Especially the 'collecting' of people so that one has someone to talk to. Even figuratively speaking, viewing those cognitively average or otherwise as objects to be collected or bus stop people, is....dismissive and depreciative. :sad:

Maybe I've misunderstood, if so, I apologise.

 

I have to disagree. This lad at a young age knows he will be be ignored if he doesn't reach out and establish a relationship at their level.  They will never reach out to him, they'll declare him 'the other' and exclude as an outlier. He's doing all the work not to be shoved out of the tribe.  The dismissive, unappreciative people are those who react to him by excluding rather than doing as he is, reaching the hand out in friendship. 

Ever watch the current show "The Middle"? 

[pinewarbler]

I hear what you are saying Ebunny, and my first reaction was similar to yours. However, I came to understand that he expects he'll need to reach out to everyone regardless of whether they seem to be a good fit immediately.

DS actually gives them more of a chance than my DD, who would say that she's accepting of everyone. He knows full well that they would not have chosen him, the outlier as Heigh Ho mentions, and furthermore he sees qualities in others that I don't always see. I think he was reassuring himself that although many of those attempts at friendship were going to be failures, he could still have some kind of relationship with them, even on a superficial level. But he also understood at a very young age that the onus was on him to create a bridge because his age peers sure weren't going to. That is a lot of responsibility to own.

[TerriM]

Honestly, I really liked the bus stop analogy--that everywhere you go (or stop), you want to have a friend, even if it's not a best friend.  I've at times been more the burn the bridge kind of person.  And it can get kind of lonely.  Now I realize that keeping friends is important, although I still find it difficult as an introvert to make them.  I like the kid's attitude of seeing everyone as a potential friend.  

 

Sometimes those bus stops friends can turn into really close ones.  There was one person I met through my husband who I really didn't have anything in common with at all.  But now that she and I both have kids, I find that we have more in common on many issues than my husband has with either of us.   You just never know. :)

Edited June 15, 2017 by TerriM

[epi]

lewelma, I'm curious what you found about the net cost of good Australian and British universities compared to NZ and USA.

My regrets about going to the local "average" university, instead of a much better one in a distant place, was not the social aspect, but the academics. You'll be much more academically challenged and learn a lot more at an elite university. The local one may give a "solid" education but it really is less, and you can end up isolated and complacent. I now believe one should go to the best place possible. But costs really do matter.
 

[lewelma]

lewelma, I'm curious what you found about the net cost of good Australian and British universities compared to NZ and USA.

 

My regrets about going to the local "average" university, instead of a much better one in a distant place, was not the social aspect, but the academics. You'll be much more academically challenged and learn a lot more at an elite university. The local one may give a "solid" education but it really is less, and you can end up isolated and complacent. I now believe one should go to the best place possible. But costs really do matter.

 

 

I definitely appreciate your thoughts, and we have come to the same conclusion.  DS is not likely to get into the top British universities because he has not taken the NZ scholarship exams, and does not plan to.  The admission process in the USA makes ds shine as a homeschooler with stellar exam marks, the British admission process makes him look lesser than other New Zealanders who went to school.  Unfortunately, Australia *this* year decided that NZers will now be considered internationals for tuition purposes. sigh. But ds's backup is ANU which is top 25 in the world and to which  he has guarenteed entrance to the honors program based on his exam marks. It's only backup because he feels that Australia is foreign while the USA is his heritage.

 

We also are having some trouble with the net price calculators on the school websites because they don't seem to know how to handle our tax forms, or how to deal with currency exchange.  We are going to have him apply and then see what the numbers come back as. If they are as bad as they look, we can still swing it, but we will be eating beans and rice for 4 years.   :tongue_smilie:  

[epi]

I just looked at the ANU prices - Yikes! - I had no idea.

I played with a few US college Net Price Calculators a while ago, and I found that if you have modest income, then the Ivies, MIT etc were a small fraction of sticker price, and actually cheaper than most other options. The calculators are simplified and may not handle non-standard situations well.
 

[ebunny]

I hear what you are saying Ebunny, and my first reaction was similar to yours. However, I came to understand that he expects he'll need to reach out to everyone regardless of whether they seem to be a good fit immediately.

DS actually gives them more of a chance than my DD, who would say that she's accepting of everyone. He knows full well that they would not have chosen him, the outlier as Heigh Ho mentions, and furthermore he sees qualities in others that I don't always see. I think he was reassuring himself that although many of those attempts at friendship were going to be failures, he could still have some kind of relationship with them, even on a superficial level. But he also understood at a very young age that the onus was on him to create a bridge because his age peers sure weren't going to. That is a lot of responsibility to own.

 

 

Honestly, I really liked the bus stop analogy--that everywhere you go (or stop), you want to have a friend, even if it's not a best friend.  I've at times been more the burn the bridge kind of person.  And it can get kind of lonely.  Now I realize that keeping friends is important, although I still find it difficult as an introvert to make them.  I like the kid's attitude of seeing everyone as a potential friend.  

 

Sometimes those bus stops friends can turn into really close ones.  There was one person I met through my husband who I really didn't have anything in common with at all.  But now that she and I both have kids, I find that we have more in common on many issues than my husband has with either of us.   You just never know. :)

 

 

Thank you for sharing your perspectives. I understand better now.

[ebunny]

I have to disagree. This lad at a young age knows he will be be ignored if he doesn't reach out and establish a relationship at their level.  They will never reach out to him, they'll declare him 'the other' and exclude as an outlier. He's doing all the work not to be shoved out of the tribe.  The dismissive, unappreciative people are those who react to him by excluding rather than doing as he is, reaching the hand out in friendship. 

Ever watch the current show "The Middle"? 

 

No, haven't heard of the show. But, I get what you're trying to say.