s/o "girls can't do hard stuff"

[SparklyUnicorn]

My algebra teacher was a woman.  She was the only female math teacher I ever had and the only time I did well in math (in elementary through high school). 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

In high school, I had 3 female math teachers - geometry, pre-calc, AP calc, and 2 male math teachers (actually the same male teacher for two classes)- alg II and AP stat

 

I am 34 and can't remember growing up with any sort of "Girls can't xyz" message.  We were the generation that was supposed to have it all, which was another lie, but also another topic...  lol.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ok wait I have to take that back.  In elementary most of my teachers were women.  I'm talking A1 and up.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

YES!!!!!  My aunt was all into the ERA..  My mom is a militant feminist.  She now agrees that it is impossible a woman to have everything....at least all at one time.   Everything needs a cost/benefit analysis:  working and delaying children/affecting your ability to have children, staying home with children affecting earn power later , etc.  Having it all is an impossibility. 

 

Technically men have it all.  They never think (that I've ever heard)...should I have a career or children. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Most of them are wired differently.  Estrogen does make a difference.  I think biologically we are different.   I don't think it is all society.  

 

Maybe

 

And after typing that I thought, but then men don't really have to take time off to give birth.  So that's definitely something that can make a difference in terms of disruption in one's (career) life.

[marbel]

Technically men have it all.  They never think (that I've ever heard)...should I have a career or children. 

 

I'm not sure this is necessarily true.  Most men I know (yes I am speaking anecdotally) do not have the same types of relationships with their kids that their wives developed simply because the wives were with the kids more.  Many men I know lack close friendships while women find that easier, because women have more time for it, and many women develop relationships through their children.  (I met my closest friends at MOPS meetings when my kids were little.)   Many stay-home moms I know have free time to work out and pursue enjoyable interests while their husbands are working.    Sure, men don't choose between career and children, but many choose between career and relationships with their children, especially if they are committed to having a stay home (homeschooling or not) mom.

 

Obviously I am speaking of my own observations and speaking generally.  I'm sure there are exceptions to what I just said.

 

And I'm not implying that men are not good fathers if they are focused on their careers.  

Edited June 9, 2017 by marbel

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not sure this is necessarily true.  Most men I know (yes I am speaking anecdotally) do not have the same types of relationships with their kids that their wives developed simply because the wives were with the kids more.  Many men I know lack close friendships while women find that easier, because women have more time for it, and many women develop relationships through their children.  (I met my closest friends at MOPS meetings when my kids were little.)   Many stay-home moms I know have free time to work out and pursue enjoyable interests while their husbands are working.    Sure, men don't choose between career and children, but many choose between career and relationships with their children, especially if they are committed to having a stay home (homeschooling or not) mom.

 

Obviously I am speaking of my own observations and speaking generally.  I'm sure there are exceptions to what I just said.

 

And I'm not implying that men are not good fathers if they are focused on their careers.  

 

I totally agree with you, but it seems people don't find that objectionable (for men to not have much of a relationship with their children). While women are crapped on if they don't for the same reasons.

[Bluegoat]

I'm curious how many of us had female math teachers. I had a few and my dad has a Master's in math. Honestly I think I have dyscalculia which is more what holds me back from a math path than anything else.

 

Gosh, I was just trying to think, and I realize, I can only remember two out of three of my hs math teachers!  I can't remember the other at all.

 

Of those two, one was a woman, one a man.

Of my hs sciience teachers, my grade 10 general science and chem teacher was (the same) woman, and the biology teacher was a man.

[Bluegoat]

Maybe

 

And after typing that I thought, but then men don't really have to take time off to give birth.  So that's definitely something that can make a difference in terms of disruption in one's (career) life.

 

I think that the giving birth thing really factors into the idea that women aren't as strong as men.

 

Even apart from size and upper body strength, women who are pregnant often have limitations.  Women that have been pregnant many times do too - you may not want to do the same tasks when they make your uterus fall out.

 

Even some of the mental stereotypes about women I started to wonder about, after seeing online mom's groups.

 

When I was younger I thought a lot of older ideas about the sexes were really just myths, but I am much less inclined to think that now. 

[Bluegoat]

FWIW, my dh really knows that the job he had when our kids were small affected his relationship with them at that time.  It was a big deal o him and a reason he was happy to leave that position.

[Arcadia]

I'm curious how many of us had female math teachers.

I went to a convent school for 1st to 6th grade and most teachers are nuns. All my math teachers were female.

 

Then I went to an all girls school for 7th to 10th grade and most teachers were females and the male teachers taught geography and Chinese. So all math teachers were females.

 

For 11th and 12th grade, I had a female and male math teacher. The female teacher taught the harder math while the male teacher can't do calculus so he copied my studious classmates homework to use as his solutions.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think that the giving birth thing really factors into the idea that women aren't as strong as men.

 

Even apart from size and upper body strength, women who are pregnant often have limitations.  Women that have been pregnant many times do too - you may not want to do the same tasks when they make your uterus fall out.

 

Even some of the mental stereotypes about women I started to wonder about, after seeing online mom's groups.

 

When I was younger I thought a lot of older ideas about the sexes were really just myths, but I am much less inclined to think that now. 

 

Then again giving birth is crazy freaking hard work.  LOL

[MysteryJen]

Technically men have it all. They never think (that I've ever heard)...should I have a career or children.

I don't know about that. My dh made career choices to have more time at home. It definitely affected his earnings. Though he does have great relationships with the kids.

[HSmomof2]

I don't hear it at all. I honestly didn't hear it growing up either. There was a pretty strong feminist vibe that I recall strongly throughout my Prime teen/early adulthood years. My dd hasn't encountered it that I've ever seen.

 

I will go against the grain and say I actually worry a lot more about the messages being targeted towards my son about how "fill in the blank negative here" men are than I do about anything targeted towards my daughter. I feel like there is an anti-boy paradigm creeping up.

 

^^^ITA. Maybe it's more prevalent where I live, but I've seen the above much more than anything 'anti-girl'.

[Carrie12345]

FWIW, my dh really knows that the job he had when our kids were small affected his relationship with them at that time.  It was a big deal o him and a reason he was happy to leave that position.

 

Mine had very, very little time with the kids when they were younger.  It was hard for me to watch (and deal with.)

 

Is it okay for me to resent him because, after all that, he's now the favorite parent?   :cursing:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't think my kids experience it.  They are pretty insulated from it.  Dd climbs harder stuff than most men at the gym.  We don't hang around many people who have those kinds of attitudes so when we do encounter it, my kids are shocked. 

[katilac]

Responding without reading replies yet: Yes, I do think they still hear it. Not as often as back in the day, and they hear countering messages, but they definitely hear it. 

 

Small example that comes to mind is the meetings at our old homeschool group. When the meeting ended, they would always say, "Can we get some strong boys to put the chairs back?" And I'd have to say, "The strong girls will help, too!" One of my dds was def stronger than 90% of any other kid there, male or female. 

 

The funny thing is that they weren't even heavy chairs, lol. No one had to be strong to pick them up. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Responding without reading replies yet: Yes, I do think they still hear it. Not as often as back in the day, and they hear countering messages, but they definitely hear it. 

 

Small example that comes to mind is the meetings at our old homeschool group. When the meeting ended, they would always say, "Can we get some strong boys to put the chairs back?" And I'd have to say, "The strong girls will help, too!" One of my dds was def stronger than 90% of any other kid there, male or female. 

 

The funny thing is that they weren't even heavy chairs, lol. No one had to be strong to pick them up. 

 

Stuff like this bugs me, but I dunno people look at you like you have ten heads if you point it out. 

[Carrie12345]

Stuff like this bugs me, but I dunno people look at you like you have ten heads if you point it out. 

 

My co-op co-founders and I asked what we could do to help around the building.  We were told it would be great if we could get our husbands to run the floor cleaner.  I don't know where the instructions say you need a penis to operate it, but whatever. 

[gardenmom5]

I'm curious how many of us had female math teachers. I had a few and my dad has a Master's in math. Honestly I think I have dyscalculia which is more what holds me back from a math path than anything else.

 

I remember one of three for higher level math classes. 

I think 1dd's were more balanced - and of her math teachers she hated - one was male and one was female. she hated them because she considered them incompetent.  she completely ignored them, wrote down the assignment, took the book home and did the lesson.  and usually had the highest grade in the class.

 

I think learning disabilities were what held me back in math.  my kids all have their dad's math ability.  girls included. 

 

Most of them are wired differently.  Estrogen does make a difference.  I think biologically we are different.   I don't think it is all society.   I think many/most women have nurturing wired into them.  Even if they are single, they nurture colleagues under them or whatever. 

 

I'm seeing this with dd and her new job.  she talks about it in those terms.  she is "taking care of/nurturing" the company, fixing the (huge) problems in her dept.  because it's the tech dept - and everything is dependent upon it. 

 

why gender matters by leonard sax md touched on this - they've seen this in animals studies. young female primates/mammals want to nurture.  we had a female GSD - never bred her, but she wanted to nurture.  including the neighbor's kitten who was being ignored by the mamma cat.  of course she couldn't feed it, but if she could have, she would have been a better mother.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My co-op co-founders and I asked what we could do to help around the building.  We were told it would be great if we could get our husbands to run the floor cleaner.  I don't know where the instructions say you need a penis to operate it, but whatever. 

 

Wow....

[marbel]

My co-op co-founders and I asked what we could do to help around the building.  We were told it would be great if we could get our husbands to run the floor cleaner.  I don't know where the instructions say you need a penis to operate it, but whatever. 

 

There are people around who still think in terms of male/female roles.  I would guess that in homeschooling circles where the mom stays home and teaches the kids, and dad goes to work, there may be more of that than in other groups.  

 

Over time those things change. Kids are hearing/seeing that being challenged.  Example in another post, where someone asked for  some strong boys to take care of chairs. The poster suggested that the girls are strong too.  The next generation of coop organizers will be different from this one.

 

My own anecdote:  from time to time my church has special events for which the admin solicits desserts. She typically put out an announcement looking for women to bake, etc.  I never thought anything of it - I'm the baker in our house.  No big deal.  My daughter, however, would get a little bristly when she'd see those. "Does she think men can't bake?" So, one day I suggested to the admin that she stop asking women specifically, noting that plenty of men cook too and there is no reason to exclude them. She said she'd simply never thought of it, and from then on, all requests for food prep have been gender-neutral.  

 

She (admin) and I simply didn't notice, because in our worlds, the women are the cooks.  It wasn't a big deal to ask her to change it; she wasn't offended.  Now, I'm not sure that any men have offered up baked goods, but, that doesn't really matter.   No offense was intended, and none was taken really, as far as I know.  My daughter wasn't really offended; she just thought it was silly to ask only the women.  And she was right.  

Edited June 9, 2017 by marbel

[SKL]

I'm not saying that on average males / females don't gravitate more toward certain activities.  I think they do.  But I feel my kids view that as a choice or preference, not a sex-linked ability.

 

As for potential career interests, one of my daughters is currently interested in engineering, but is also crazy about reading.  My other kid aspires to be a spy (join the CIA), and loves sports, but she also loves primping and dressing up.

 

My kid is a pretty fast runner - there is only 1 boy in her class who consistently beats her in races.  One of the other athletic boys has been known to cry after losing to her.  However, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with her being a girl.  Could be because she's littler.  Or it could be because he just doesn't like losing.  :P  That said, the statistics seem to prove that boys in general run faster than girls.  Facts are facts.  :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

They are welcome to run the floor cleaner and move chairs.  I have absolutely not wish to do either of those things, which in many people's eyes makes me not a real woman able to do anything a man does...  What if I don't want to????????  I would rather he lift the heavy things.  Does that make me a bad person?????

I've read this three times but I still don't understand what you're asking.

[TABmom]

I recently saw a picture of our local high school's top ten percent of the graduating class. Out of about 30, only 3 were male. It was just the cover of a newsletter, but I did take notice and wonder about the discrepancy. I pointed it out to my dh and he said he'd noticed it too.

[SKL]

Oh yeah, I noticed at my kids' year-end "awards" ceremony - maybe 10% of the choir are boys (maybe less), and boys are also underrepresented in band.  In the Power of the Pen contest, at least 85% were girls, and they made a point to say one of the boys was the first boy "qualifier" we've ever had at our school.

[SparklyUnicorn]

They are welcome to run the floor cleaner and move chairs.  I have absolutely not wish to do either of those things, which in many people's eyes makes me not a real woman able to do anything a man does...  What if I don't want to????????  I would rather he lift the heavy things.  Does that make me a bad person?????

 

No, I don't think so.  I would guess most people don't adore cleaning floors.  There is a difference between saying you don't like it and women aren't capable of doing it and should never be asked to. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh yeah, I noticed at my kids' year-end "awards" ceremony - maybe 10% of the choir are boys (maybe less), and boys are also underrepresented in band.  In the Power of the Pen contest, at least 85% were girls, and they made a point to say one of the boys was the first boy "qualifier" we've ever had at our school.

 

My boys are in girl dominated activities.  But what I don't understand is why these activities don't attract more boys. 

[Guest]

They are welcome to run the floor cleaner and move chairs. I have absolutely not wish to do either of those things, which in many people's eyes makes me not a real woman able to do anything a man does... What if I don't want to???????? I would rather he lift the heavy things. Does that make me a bad person?????

I get your point. I can remember, YEARS ago, that my grandma said she thought the whole women's lib movement was crazy. As a farmer's wife, she could NOT understand why any sane woman would want to do a man's work. She was convinced that as the woman and as the one who didn't have to do the hard farm labor, that she definitely had the better end of the deal.

[Janeway]

I also see a ton of negative messages for boys. This society has become so focused on lifting up girls, they turn around and blame the boys and try to crush them down. It seems to be ok to say means things about boys. When I had the last baby, I looked at him and actually thought about how society already has set forth that he is bad, violent, a potential rapist, oppressor, etc, and nothing he can do will change that. He has a whole list of things he will not be allowed to do, but if he does it, people will say he is "not a real boy." If a girl hits a boy, and he cries, then he is ridiculed. If a boy hits a girl, he is punished and violent and "what is wrong with the world today." I could go on and on about this, but I am far more concerned about what is happening to boys. 

[Carrie12345]

They are welcome to run the floor cleaner and move chairs.  I have absolutely not wish to do either of those things, which in many people's eyes makes me not a real woman able to do anything a man does...  What if I don't want to????????  I would rather he lift the heavy things.  Does that make me a bad person?????

 

Dude.  I don't want to wash my OWN floors.  My desire has zero to do with my ability.  Do I have to not be able to run a floor cleaner to make you feel better?

[wintermom]

I'm curious how many of us had female math teachers. I had a few and my dad has a Master's in math. Honestly I think I have dyscalculia which is more what holds me back from a math path than anything else.

 

High school: math and physics teachers were all men; biology and chemistry teachers were women.

 

University: Sciences were mostly men except for Human Anatomy.

[gardenmom5]

My boys are in girl dominated activities.  But what I don't understand is why these activities don't attract more boys. 

 

various reasons - sometimes they just dont' get enrolled.  so that lowers that from the beginning.  then there is the societal expectations which can shame some kids out of them.

 

I mentioned why gender matters by leonard sax MD up thread . . . he got dragged into this by many of his patients parents. (and it started with how many kids were being "diagnosed" with add other and drugged. especially boys who just needed more time to run around at recess.)  the more research he did - the more he is now a very strong advocate for sex -segregated education.  this is one of the things that were found:

boys in boys school - do more in art, writing, drama, etc.  they are around other boys who are doing it - they're not afraid of embarassing themselves of themselves in front of girls 

there was one mom who got her son to knock off causing trouble at school - by intimating she'd embarrass him in front of girls . . . .

it also benefited girls -

they were stronger in math and science. they learned to be more outspoken.  there were no boys in the class with which they were being compared, etc.  gender of teacher didn't matter - it was their peers.

I also see a ton of negative messages for boys. This society has become so focused on lifting up girls, they turn around and blame the boys and try to crush them down. It seems to be ok to say means things about boys. When I had the last baby, I looked at him and actually thought about how society already has set forth that he is bad, violent, a potential rapist, oppressor, etc, and nothing he can do will change that. He has a whole list of things he will not be allowed to do, but if he does it, people will say he is "not a real boy." If a girl hits a boy, and he cries, then he is ridiculed. If a boy hits a girl, he is punished and violent and "what is wrong with the world today." I could go on and on about this, but I am far more concerned about what is happening to boys. 

 

I've also seen a lot in advertising - the number of commercials aimed at making the dad a dufus that mom and the kids laugh at. . . .

[6packofun]

For the most part I feel like girls today are not told that they can't do hard things, but they are told--in words or actions or attitudes--to constantly be looking out for someone trying to hold them back or victimize them and then REALLLLY make them pay for standing in your way.  It's almost like an "expect misogyny and oppression" message.  Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, everywhere.  But I see it a lot, mainly among those who consider themselves to be strong women, ironically.  

[Guest]

various reasons - sometimes they just dont' get enrolled.  so that lowers that from the beginning.  then there is the societal expectations which can shame some kids out of them.

 

I mentioned why gender matters by leonard sax MD up thread . . . he got dragged into this by many of his patients parents. (and it started with how many kids were being "diagnosed" with add other and drugged. especially boys who just needed more time to run around at recess.)  the more research he did - the more he is now a very strong advocate for sex -segregated education.  this is one of the things that were found:

boys in boys school - do more in art, writing, drama, etc.  they are around other boys who are doing it - they're not afraid of embarassing themselves of themselves in front of girls 

there was one mom who got her son to knock off causing trouble at school - by intimating she'd embarrass him in front of girls . . . .

it also benefited girls -

they were stronger in math and science. they learned to be more outspoken.  there were no boys in the class with which they were being compared, etc.  gender of teacher didn't matter - it was their peers.

 

I've also seen a lot in advertising - the number of commercials aimed at making the dad a dufus that mom and the kids laugh at. . . .

 

I've had that book on my want to read list so I'm glad you brought Sax up. I really do need to read it. 

[Paige]

Boys can take dance classes for practically free at the studio my DD goes to. I mentioned that when new baby boy is born and old enough that I'm signing him up for dance because $$$. You'd think I'd told my family I wanted to sign him up to be a fairy princess or that I'm going to enroll him in transsexual classes. The push back for this with a not yet even born child is ridiculous! 

 

Tomboys are acceptable these days but the reverse is still not true.

[Rosie_0801]

No, but don't look down on me if I don't want to or make me feel like I'm letting down my sex which is the message I get sometimes.  I want my husband to open up my door.  I want my boys to do the heavy farm work around here.  Sorry if that makes me less of a woman. 

 

You aren't sorry at all. You're quite defiantly not sorry. :lol:

 

 

If you stand beside doors, filing your nails, waiting for a man to happen along to open it or if you'd rather lose your farm than pitch in during an emergency, you're over *my* Judgy McJudgerson line. But, as we've discussed before, I'm a random internet person who doesn't paint your dunny door.

[Rosie_0801]

Boys can take dance classes for practically free at the studio my DD goes to. I mentioned that when new baby boy is born and old enough that I'm signing him up for dance because $$$. You'd think I'd told my family I wanted to sign him up to be a fairy princess or that I'm going to enroll him in transsexual classes. The push back for this with a not yet even born child is ridiculous! 

 

Tomboys are acceptable these days but the reverse is still not true.

 

Well, I have to say the ballet I saw last night would have been a bit rubbish without any blokerinas.

[Carrie12345]

No, but don't look down on me if I don't want to or make me feel like I'm letting down my sex which is the message I get sometimes.  I want my husband to open up my door.  I want my boys to do the heavy farm work around here.  Sorry if that makes me less of a woman. 

 

:huh:

Lady, I posted about a man assuming I was incapable of cleaning a flipping floor.  What in the whole wide world makes you think your existence ever entered my mind?!?  

[gardenmom5]

I've had that book on my want to read list so I'm glad you brought Sax up. I really do need to read it. 

 

it was fascinating - even down to the difference between the male and female eyeball.  seriously.  they are wired differently.  men are wired to see motion - and women to see texture.

 

really is something to that 10 things only women understand . . .

the difference between bone, cream, off-white,.  . . . . .

[gardenmom5]

 

 

 , waiting for a man to happen along to open 

 

I live in a 'progressive area".  when pushing a stroller -the people who would open the door (even if I was already struggling to open it), were obvious older mothers, or men >30.  the ones who would go out of their way to avoid me . . . were women and teenage boys.

 

 

[Soror]

I do think there is still a message in regards to certain things, I live in the Bible belt, where assigned gender roles are still common.

 

In general, I think school is geared more towards the female learner these days but when it comes to STEM fields/activities it is still very much male dominated, although it looks as if the gap is closing. Personally, I'm more worried about my son attending school than my daughters.

 

BUT there are some real differences between boys and girls. The statistics and stats show that past puberty men/boys are stronger than women/girls and women/girls are more flexible than men/boys due to differences in hormones and build. (not all of course but one stat I read said that the avg. man is stronger than 99.9% of girls)

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Actually, I hate being needy.  Before the boys came along it was my job to mow the lawn.  It was my job to mow the lawn growing up.  My dad said he believed in ERA...he put the sticker on the lawn mower.  I've dug cows out of the mud.  I've chased cows back into the pasture.  I don't sit filing my nails.  However, if I could, I would live all by myself in a one bedroom apartment and never take care of another cow again. (:

 

That sounds pretty nice, really.

 

I'm happy not to have cows, I have to say. :lol:

[SKL]

No, I don't think so.  I would guess most people don't adore cleaning floors.  There is a difference between saying you don't like it and women aren't capable of doing it and should never be asked to. 

 

I would assume they are thinking the moms have already done the majority of the work relating to the kid activity and so this is a way for the guys to pitch in and make it more even.

 

I don't know, because I'm single and do everything for my kids regardless, but it seems to me that when it comes to things like school, scouts, and even many sports, the moms are the ones doing most of the day to day work.  For example, I'm gonna guess not too many dads attach their kids' scout patches to their uniforms.  Or arrange for specific clothes to be ready / bags packed for a given activity.  Or food brought for the group if that's what was needed.  And pretty much everything else that needs done all day when it comes to kids.  :)

 

I have absolutely no problem sitting on my hiney watching the men move the chairs after a long day.

 

ETA I also think things like that are for a little physical or social relief for guys which is not otherwise easily available in the situation.  What may feel like heavy lifting to an average woman may just feel like relaxing exercise to an average man.

 

Basically I don't think we need to look for offense in things like that.  I'm sure nobody actually doubts that women can run machines.  Most of us drive big-ass cars among other things.  :P

Edited June 9, 2017 by SKL

[creekland]

Yes. It is more subtle sometimes.

 

I have had to teach my girls to speak up in groups (especially in science classes or their robotics team) to say, "Please don't interrupt me."  Boys try to take over by talking over them and/or ignoring their contributions, and the leaders tend to let them.

 

One of mine is a great chess player; one tags along in tournaments. They've both had comments of "Oh, I didn't know girls played chess." or "I can beat a girl! This will be easy." One of their male opponents sobbed after my dd beat him in about 10-12 moves - he kept telling his father "I was beat  - by a girl, a girl!" I didn't stick around to see what Dad had to say.

 

One that still irritates me years later but may not fit exactly to the topic of "hard stuff". I asked at a parent's get-together for homeschoolers for book suggestions for my dd who read many grade levels ahead. She wanted girl protagonists. I got a 20 minute lecture on how we shouldn't gender books - she should read both. She did, but she was looking for fairies, princesses, etc. at the moment. The next meeting or so, a different parent asked for male books because her (same-age) son wouldn't read a book with a female protagonist. The group happily discussed the topic for the remainder of the meeting. 

 

Ditto.  The message is far more subtle.  At the same time we're told women can do anything (and this is true in academics), we also are told doctors don't listen to women, so get your husband to speak for you so you'll be believed.

 

There is the ideal world, and then there is the real world.  In the real world a woman (in many fields or aspects of life) carries less "weight" than a man doing or saying the exact same thing.

 

My teenage daughters participate in male dominated activities.  They know girls can do anything, and know most people support them, but they're also very much aware that discrimination exists.

 

Women's sports usually earn less and have less of a following than men's sports.  There are exceptions, but not many.

 

 

Responding without reading replies yet: Yes, I do think they still hear it. Not as often as back in the day, and they hear countering messages, but they definitely hear it. 

 

Small example that comes to mind is the meetings at our old homeschool group. When the meeting ended, they would always say, "Can we get some strong boys to put the chairs back?" And I'd have to say, "The strong girls will help, too!" One of my dds was def stronger than 90% of any other kid there, male or female. 

 

The funny thing is that they weren't even heavy chairs, lol. No one had to be strong to pick them up. 

 

Exactly what I see/hear.  "You can do anything!!!  But we only want guys for this or girls for that. If anyone is outside their role, they're... well, fill in words of your choice."

 

I was a Physics major in college back in the 80s.  Often I was the only gal in my class.  I'm not sure much has changed at that level, but the gals in the classes tend to do just fine.  It's on the job (outside of academia) where I see more discrimination.

 

My co-op co-founders and I asked what we could do to help around the building.  We were told it would be great if we could get our husbands to run the floor cleaner.  I don't know where the instructions say you need a penis to operate it, but whatever. 

 

I read this one to my guys (hubby and middle son sitting here).   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Thanks for sharing!

 

Otherwise... I have three boys.  I've yet to see them discriminated against - even with middle son doing dance and youngest opting for a semester of cheerleading in college.  They have plenty of female and male friends too.  ;)  Of course, it might have been how they were raised.  We're very much anti-discrimination of any sort in my family.  I'm certainly not the only cook in our family.  Middle son just got up to fix us fried rice for supper.  I'm about to head outside to do more farm chores.  

[Terabith]

I remember when I was four, my parents bought me a picture book with the title Girls Can Be Anything.  It was supposed to be empowering.  But it was the first time I had heard a message in either direction, and it was the first moment of doubt I ever had.  Why on earth would they have to write a whole book about it if it wasn't self-evident?  Why was the boy character saying girls couldn't?  Did he know something I didn't?  I was only four, but I can remember every page of that book. 

 

I don't see a lot of anti-girl messages.  But, I do think boys are at risk in schools, in particular.  Schools, especially, are very anti-boy in attitudes and expectations.  I worked in a preschool, and at a meeting when we were looking for new teachers, I mentioned how nice it would be to have a male teacher, to get that male role model thing going.  I was appalled by the fact that the director said she would be hesitant to hire a male teacher, because so many parents would not want their child around a man.  So I started paying attention and hearing parents, even parents of boys, saying they would never hire a boy as a babysitter or want a male preschool teacher because of the risk of sexual abuse.  It just floored me.  I mean, Teacher Tom (who writes an awesome blog about his preschool) is a man.  Mister Rogers was a man.  We're doing a dis-service to men who want to work with children and to children, when we act like men who like children are criminals.  I have a friend who is a transgendered man who has talked a lot about out different his interactions with children in society have been pre and post transition.  When he looked female, it was fine for him to smile at random children at stores and such, but post transition, he absolutely has to curb his interactions with kids because of the way society views men.

[Carrie12345]

 

BUT there are some real differences between boys and girls. The statistics and stats show that past puberty men/boys are stronger than women/girls and women/girls are more flexible than men/boys due to differences in hormones and build. (not all of course but one stat I read said that the avg. man is stronger than 99.9% of girls)

 

No rational person can pretend that there are no differences at all, but I am most definitely suspicious of that statistic.  Or the top tenth of one percent are highly concentrated in my area, which would be weird.

 

Regardless, there are very few fields in which bench pressing (or whatever) significantly more than another person makes one better qualified for a position. If a job requires someone to lift 100lbs and a specific woman can lift 100lbs, who cares if a man can lift 110?  My husband can do a pull up, and I cannot.  But I can out plank him without a single shake.  Which one of us is better suited to building furniture? Because I never let him touch my IKEA boxes, lol.

 

It's all so silly.

 

For whatever it's worth, my musician son is allergic to manual labor.  But no one questions whether he can do it  I mean, he's male!!!

[gardenmom5]

Actually, I hate being needy.  Before the boys came along it was my job to mow the lawn.  It was my job to mow the lawn growing up.  My dad said he believed in ERA...he put the sticker on the lawn mower.  I've dug cows out of the mud.  I've chased cows back into the pasture.  I don't sit filing my nails.  However, if I could, I would live all by myself in a one bedroom apartment and never take care of another cow again. (:

 

makes me think of one valentine's day when sil's family were doing something with their hogs and drawing little hearts on the one's that were done . . . dniece commented "this isn't my career choice".   she's in tech.  no were near livestock, let alone a farm.

[Carrie12345]

I remember when I was four, my parents bought me a picture book with the title Girls Can Be Anything.  It was supposed to be empowering.  But it was the first time I had heard a message in either direction, and it was the first moment of doubt I ever had.  Why on earth would they have to write a whole book about it if it wasn't self-evident?  Why was the boy character saying girls couldn't?  Did he know something I didn't?  I was only four, but I can remember every page of that book. 

 

 

This DOES concern me.  It's a double edged sword.

[Closeacademy]

When my oldest was in grade school, she loved robots and we decided to join a Lego-robotics team for homeschoolers that was starting up in our area. We were asked to leave because they wanted it to be a boys-only club. It took her until her junior year in high school before she was willing to try again and loved it. But then this robotics team was run by the local college.

 

So yes, we have heard that girls aren't supposed to be doing math and science. Also got this message from the Chemistry Co-op teacher.