My 3yo is a monster

[Ausmumof3]

He wasn't manipulating me, he was just deliberately breaking all the rules, just because they were forbidden. He's very gifted, he was quite advanced in comprehension for his age.

 

Physical restraint of any kind makes him panic.

 

 

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I haven't followed the whole thread but here's my two thoughts.

 

Generally when kids are being deliberately naughty as opposed to accidentally naughty they are doing it to get a reaction from an adult. Combine that with potentially being gifted and I'd suspect boredom could be the culprit

This is not something of usually suggest but given you have very young kids close together and probably not much time to spend with each have you thought of putting him on some kind of Montessori preschool. Having a decent range of activities that are able to challenge him and at his level could make a huge difference.

 

My other strategy for challenging behaviour is get outside as much as possible. Like all day if needs be. It does make doing housework hard but it does limit the mess you make as well as keeping brain and body busy.

[heartlikealion]

I'm overwhelmed by the number of responses in just a few hours. I'll have to think about it and respond tomorrow.

 

We do have many positive interactions. I was focusing on the bad here. We play games almost daily. I read him stories. I tell him I love him and kiss him lots. He helps me with dinner. We go for family walks. The time from 12:30-1:30 is just for the two of us every day.

 

He goes to preschool. I think it's socially satisfying for him but intellectually underwhelming. I think someone misread that I've had him tested with a high IQ. My DH and I have high IQ's. He is clearly quite advanced in certain areas. The psych says that he's gifted, but doesn't like to do IQ testing at 3 years old.

 

No, he cannot read. I want to teach him but his performance anxiety makes it difficult. The primer approach is impossible because it's pressure. I'm expecting him to just bust out reading one day next year, because that's his style.

 

The psychologist told me today that the next step is to increase the amount of structure to his day, so I'll be working on that.

 

He directs his intellectual energy to building things. His duplos and Lincoln logs are no longer challenging, so I'm going to get tinker toys or knex next, and maybe a small lego kit with instructions. He also finds 50-piece puzzles too easy. It's hard to keep up with his progress, he masters everything as quickly as I buy it. I'm probably holding him back by not providing the right level of stimulation.

 

If anyone has ideas for teaching a kid who will not perform under pressure to read, I'm all ears. Like, some way he can practice in secret. That's what he likes.

 

 

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He's just three. A child that didn't want to participate I'd just say isn't ready. But if you think a different format would interest him, have you tried ReadingBear.org?

[Ausmumof3]

At 10 months, if I said "don't touch that," he would laugh and do just that, over and over and over until we forcefully removed him. He would lock in and be incapable of doing anything else. What is that if not disobeying for its own sake? It was fun at first but then he was crying and it was a battle of wills that he couldn't stop. And if we come back into the room 30 minutes or 3 weeks later, he remembers and beelines to the forbidden thing. Even if it's something obviously not particularly appealing in itself. The forbidden fruit has clearly always motivated him.

I had a kid a bit like this. I find distraction to be key with these kind of kids. If you tell them no they obsess over that one thing. If you give them something equally interesting they may forget about it.

 

I could never win a battle of wills. It took me a long time to learn but eventually I learned to reframe everything unless it was totally unavoidable. We are adults and we are smart and can figure stuff out.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Ausmumof3

[gardenmom5]

1. A regular city bus has a few seats facing forwards, but most seats lined up against the window. This leaves more room for people to stand.

 

2. Structure is certainly helpful for most kids. If you're looking for more stimulation, lemme think on that.

 

interesting - here it's the opposite.  most seats are pairs facing forward.  there are areas with seats under the window- but that also includes those for wheelchairs.

[kitten18]

I think that's why people are so engaged with this thread. We just have a lotta memories of btdt, whew!

Been there, survived that. Lol 😂

[PeterPan]

Been there, survived that. Lol 😂

 

That's kind of a consoling thought if 10/12 is the survived it, looking up point. I've kinda heard puberty and hormones can be bad. :(

[Kiara.I]

Physical restraint of any kind makes him panic.

 

 

ODD is an anxiety-linked disorder.  And, you've stated in other spots that he's anxious.

Spanking a child with anxiety may "work" in the short term, but it increases the anxiety which will ramp up other problems.  It's probably not worth it for short-term gain.

 

Remember the anxiety.  Keep the anxiety in the forefront of your mind Every. Single. Interaction with him.  Yes, you need to address behaviours but try to do it in a way that will LESSEN his anxiety overall.  Make sense?

 

 

 

Yes, he hits, pushes, and bites the 2yo, in addition to the typical stealing stuff from him. He will yank out the chair he's sitting in and he falls. Hit him with sticks. Slam doors in his face. :( I make him stay in his playroom by himself after that. I try not to leave them alone if he's in a mood.

 

 

Do you have a good back carrier?  Because one option for when he's in an aggressive state is to toss him on your back in the carrier so that he can have some protected reconnection time with you and you still have hands free to tend to others.

[LMD]

He wasn't manipulating me, he was just deliberately breaking all the rules, just because they were forbidden. He's very gifted, he was quite advanced in comprehension for his age.

 

Physical restraint of any kind makes him panic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like my son. He got much easier sometime between 5 & 6, he's not easy still but mostly a joy.

Until then I nearly lost my mind. We didn't have a magical cure, we just hung in there and kept enforcing the boundaries as best we could. He also came out of nowhere, my older two and younger one are comparitively much more compliant. Actually, I blame both my and dh's father, they both spent their early years very, neglectfully by today's standards, free range (in India and former Yugoslavia respectively) because they were trouble makers...

 

Also, he does infinitely better outdoors. We bought 20 acres and he's so much happier. Right now he is running around playing some imaginary game.

 

Bug hugs

[ktgrok]

Also, he does infinitely better outdoors. We bought 20 acres and he's so much happier. Right now he is running around playing some imaginary game.

 

 

 

I used to say boys need to be raised on farms. Sadly, I did not have a farm. But I used to think about putting one of those ads in the paper "free to good home, needs room to roam" like people do with dogs. Sigh. 

 

But today, he spent an hour cleaning without me making him, because DH found out he's not getting a promised promotion. Times like that make the rest worth while. 

[TheReader]

ODD is an anxiety-linked disorder.  And, you've stated in other spots that he's anxious.

Spanking a child with anxiety may "work" in the short term, but it increases the anxiety which will ramp up other problems.  It's probably not worth it for short-term gain.

 

Remember the anxiety.  Keep the anxiety in the forefront of your mind Every. Single. Interaction with him.  Yes, you need to address behaviours but try to do it in a way that will LESSEN his anxiety overall.  Make sense?

 

 

 

 

Do you have a good back carrier?  Because one option for when he's in an aggressive state is to toss him on your back in the carrier so that he can have some protected reconnection time with you and you still have hands free to tend to others.

 

re: the back carrier, if restraining him in any form ups the anxiety, and he's already in an anxious aggressive state, I would not recommend this at all, unless he's already used to (and enjoys) being in the carrier. 

 

If I'd tried that with mine when he was in that state, even though he'd spent his life being worn/carried, he would have turned all that aggression on me -- pulling hair, hitting, head-butting the back of my head, kicking, pinching, etc. Absolutely no way would it have been safe, at all. Especially not for a kid who finds even gentle restraint such as being held to be anxiety/panic inducing. 

[Pen]

There have been a lot of things I have read that have indicated that a lot of the things you are finding your ds doing may have nutritional type remedies that could improve or at least alleviate the situation.  That your ds panics from closeness to me seems particularly indicative and so I have linked just one example with regard to anxiety.  Possibly if closeness did not lead to anxiety/panic in your ds, you would have a whole better approach available to working with other problems he is having.  Also, in my personal experience, Niacinamide (B3) and B Complex vitamins help with anxiety And also tantrum, aggression etc. type behavior.  At one point when my ds was at a Waldorf school, it was sort of a joke amongst moms when a child started to tantrum to say first for the mom to take her own B Complex in order to be calm enough to deal with the kid, then to get the kid to take his or her B vitamins. And, for a lot of kids, it was amazing to behold.  and a help for the reactive moms too...

 

http://www.orthomolecular.com/?ctr=illness&act=show&id=14

 

And one with regard to aggressive behavior:

http://rnblog.rockwellnutrition.com/nutritional-remedies-aggressive-violent-behavior/

Edited June 10, 2017 by Pen

[Storygirl]

OP, about reading... I've heard many people say they like the LeapFrog Letter Factory DVDs for phonics. I didn't use them myself, but it's something that would be fun and also educational for him.

 

Play alphabet and word games and puzzles. Read nursery rhymes, picture books, fairy tales aloud. If he will sit and look at the book with you, point to each word as you read it.

 

Encourage coloring, because it helps with the fine motor skills needed later on for writing. You can pick coloring activities that also reinforce reading and the alphabet.

 

One of the things I did with my little ones was make our own alphabet book. We would put a letter sticker on a construction paper page, then add pictures cut from magazines of things that started with that letter. You can choose pictures ahead of time, if looking through the magazine with you is too much to ask. I'm sure you can print a page of pictures starting with certain letters from the internet, instead of using magazines. If you do two letters a day, you can provide pictures starting with both letters and let him sort them into the two piles before gluing them on.

 

Just make learning about letters and words fun, and don't make it seem schooly. If he picks up on reading in this way, great! If not, the early exposure to letters and phonics will be helpful later on when he is ready for learning to read in earnest.

 

Learning to read was pretty difficult in our home (some LDs involved for some of my kids), and it was not always fun. So I wouldn't rush into it with him, other than just making your pre-reading activities as fun and engaging as possible. At this age, it's much more vital to work on your relationship than it is to work on reading, but if he is willing to engage with you in some fun activities, it may help keep him occupied and his brain engaged.

[Pen]

First, thanks for all the helpful advice and sympathy. My laptop isn't working but I'll try to address everything.

 

He absolutely gets cause and effect!!! "If you do that, I'll take the toy away" is fairly effective. I could give 100 examples but suffice it to say, his comprehension and problem solving skills are truly remarkable. We are continually shocked by what he can do and understand. I was tested for IQ at age 6 and was found over 99%. DH is a physicist PhD. This kid is really freaking smart, and he uses that in many situations. So at 9 months he had the comprehension of a 3yo in certain areas.

 

He talked late, like many gifted kids just waited for complete sentences so we tried EI. They suck in this area. At 3 it moves to the school system and that's a bad environment where he will not thrive.

 

I'm sorry many of you are offended by my descriptions. I've learned that I have to lay it out there as I'm secretly thinking to be challenged and corrected. If I didn't think I were part of the problem, I wouldn't be asking for advice.

 

Maybe malice is the wrong word because it's so charged. I'm trained in philosophy and take to mean "intent to cause harm." He will say, "I want to hurt you!" I get the difference between something being intentionally and unintentionally annoying. Signs of intentional misbehavior: He stares me in the eye, curls his lip in angry face and hurls my phone to the floor. He gets into the forbidden cabinet (locks are a joke) and makes a noise to make sure I'm watching. Etc. He's trying to get negative attention. He thinks it's funny when I lose it after the fiftieth offense of the afternoon. I only have so much patience.

 

He does go to preschool and is better those days. He needs a lot of stimulation.

 

I'd like to get a second opinion but I'm in a rural area and it will require travel, with 3 under 4.

My mom is here for the week while DH is gone, btw. :)

 

He hates cuddling. It makes him panic. He likes me to be across from him playing.

 

Any situation where he's asked to do anything that challenges him makes him anxious and he shuts down. Seriously, at 12 months we saw him practice motor skills in his room alone and he wouldn't do it for us until it was perfect. 12 months! He loves a challenge but only on his own terms. I wish we had a true Montessori preschool around.

 

My family has a ton of mental disorders including some known to be hereditary, so I'm expecting a difficult road with him. I very sincerely want to help him.

 

As far as spanking, if I say "I'll spank you if you do that," it's effective short-term. But yeah, thinking about it it may be cruel because of his touch anxiety.

 

 

Besides the nutritional possibilities, and possibility of B Vitamins for both of you--him to decrease anxiety and aggression, and for you to decrease reactivity to him and stress, some of what you wrote above made me think of a foster child I had at one point.

 

One thing that helped a lot with this child was working in the garden with me, the harder and more physical the better--like French double digging a row when not much older than yours is. It seemed like a good combo of a positive being together (but not cuddling which he was not ready for yet), physical energy outlet, and nature.  He'd start out in a state that was, well, probably worse than what you are describing above, and after a half hour or so in garden (assuming also he was fed and not hypoglycemic or hangry) he'd calm down, and a half hour more he'd mellow into a pleasant little human, and half hour more and he'd be happy and tired.

 

Also if preschool is better, can he go more days?

[Terabith]

We actually started my daughter on an SSRI for anxiety at just turned five.  Honestly, we should have done it two years earlier.  It had been offered earlier; I just was reluctant to put a three year old on psychotropic medication.  That was the wrong call.  I hadn't realized how much the anxiety was inhibiting her until it was a bit lessened.  A lot of her anxiety looked like panic or anxiety, but a lot of it looked like opposition and a ton of it looked like autism.  Within a week, the autistic symptoms we had seen decreased by almost 90%.  I also hadn't realized how much it was impacting her learning.  She still had a ton of learning disabilities, but she literally learned NOTHING between ages 3 and 5.  Not a thing.  Now, she was a very, very precocious and extremely, off the charts intelligent three year old, but then she plateaued and didn't gain a single new skill until we started medicating her at five.  I often wonder what the impact would have been on her learning disabilities if we'd started the meds at three. 

 

We never had a single side effect from the anti-depressant (utilized for anxiety).  It might be something to consider. 

[LMD]

I used to say boys need to be raised on farms. Sadly, I did not have a farm. But I used to think about putting one of those ads in the paper "free to good home, needs room to roam" like people do with dogs. Sigh.

 

But today, he spent an hour cleaning without me making him, because DH found out he's not getting a promised promotion. Times like that make the rest worth while.

Yes, we had been planning to anyway, but this child made it a more pressing priority! We saw a difference in him, in the city he would crash into walls while walking down the hallway. He was literally feeling trapped. And some sensory stuff too, he still hates swings...

 

This child swings between my most difficult and favourite child, he can be such a sweetheart.

But he has a crying meltdown when he finally hits something difficult (meaning, he can't immediately do it perfectly, and in his head with no help...)

[PeterPan]

...Niacinamide (B3) and B Complex vitamins help with anxiety And also tantrum, aggression etc. type behavior...

 

 

Just to rabbit trail this a minute, methylation defects are common in this mix, and the niacin can bring down overly high methyl levels. The whole methylation gig is definitely something for the OP to look into. Typically they will use anti-depressants for anxiety, but people with high methyl levels (from the particular methylation defect) will get WORSE on anti-depressants sometimes. 

[blondeviolin]

I have a kid that was like this at three.  In fact, my four-year-old is also similar, but because I have had another child like this and the fact that he's my fifth kid, I have some hindsight and tools in my toolbox.

 

Firstly, my stubborn/intense child is highly to profoundly gifted.  This is so hard.  Everyone thinks being gifted is a good thing, but it has it's own round of issues and concerns.  It's an area where most people and, even healthcare specialists, don't understand some of the difficulties.  

 

My kid has been explored for ADHD.  It's still a maybe for him.  But, I can tell you that he was not any more active than most three-year-olds.  He was extraordinarily capable physically, however.  He began both swimming and riding a bike (a regular two-wheel, pedal bike, no training wheels)  at two.  Nearly anything he tried, he could do.  

 

But, at three, an ADHD diagnosis would be pretty rare.  And if he can hold it together well for PreK the chances of them diagnosing anything in that realm are low.

 

The most helpful book I read when I was where you were, was Aaron's Way.  Unfortunately there's not much practical advice, but it did make me feel better that my kid was really stubborn/intense/strong-willed whatever...and that it was different than typical kids.

 

For my son, I try to consistently follow-through.  Which means, if I'm going to assign a consequence, it's got to be something I'm willing to enforce.  

 

I also learned to almost never draw a line in the sand, meaning, I almost never say, "Whatever you do, don't touch this," because it was basically an invitation to do what I said don't do.  In fact, even if I attached a consequence to it ("If you touch that, I will take it away for five minutes.") he'd still do it.  It's like he has to constantly check and make sure that I'm going to be consistent because at one point, I may not be.

 

He's also the kid that refused to choose between two undesired choices.  If he didn't want to go to church, it didn't matter if I was asking him if he wanted to wear the blue pants or the brown pants.  He'd reply, "Neither."  And then if I made the choice for him, he'd have drama.

 

So, when he's throwing a fit or not doing what he needs to, we tell him to take some time away.  I made the mistake of telling him at first to come back when he was ready to talk, but we ran into the issue where he would come back before he was ready.  In hindsight, I'd escort him to his room and then wait for him to calm down before allowing him to come out, holding the door handle if necessary.

 

My only other observation is that my son IS affected by red dye, but only in hard candies.  I'm not sure if the combination of sugar and red dye is what does it, but it's not worth it to allow those sort of candies.  

[Pen]

Just to rabbit trail this a minute, methylation defects are common in this mix, and the niacin can bring down overly high methyl levels. The whole methylation gig is definitely something for the OP to look into. Typically they will use anti-depressants for anxiety, but people with high methyl levels (from the particular methylation defect) will get WORSE on anti-depressants sometimes. 

 

 

Even if an anti-depressant would be of help, I personally tend to want to go with foods before supplements, and supplements before pharmaceutical drugs.  Because we clearly need food, and as was said already in ancient Greece, it should be our best medicine.  But also there may well be a lack of some vitamin or mineral that is needed by the body, and maybe can not be gotten enough of from food.  I know I myself have B vitamin issues... have cracks at my mouth corners right now even though I try to eat foods high in B vitamins, so only remedy then is to add more as supplements. Even then I think I tend to run on the low side, or have trouble metabolizing what I take in.

 

One would hate to be only focussing on behavior issues, spanking etc., only to find that some food change or supplement help could alleviate the situation.  Sort of like it not being fair to whip scurvied sailors for lack of work and bad attitude when what they needed was to eat limes.

[Pen]

OP at one point, but I can't find it now you wrote that when you ds is into one of his states you can't find a way to get him out of it.

 

This is pretty typical for everyone though. Once into a reaction and still reacting is not a time when reason can prevail even for most adults.  

[maize]

OP at one point, but I can't find it now you wrote that when you ds is into one of his states you can't find a way to get him out of it.

 

This is pretty typical for everyone though. Once into a reaction and still reacting is not a time when reason can prevail even for most adults.

I seriously need this reminder plastered on every wall of my house.

[amy g.]

Ok. So this is a weird solution but before we changed my daughter's diet and she was raging for days at a time, I found something that helped during the meltdown.

 

I'd get her on the couch or bed next to me. Sometimes this was half the battle. If she was flailing and trying to hurt me, I would keep repeating in a super upbeat voice. I just need you to sit with me for a minute. Sometimes I had to restrain her to keep her from hurting herself or me, but as soon as I felt her start to ease up a little, I'd take out the iPad.

 

I would look at it instead of her and kind of talk to myself instead of her.

 

I'd put on a show of something she had never seen but would find interesting. I'd just keep my voice happy and say things like, "I've never seen this." She would say, "It looks stupid." I wouldn't react. When something happened in the show, I might say, "I never realized that..." She would say, "Everybody knows that!"

 

But she would get sucked into it, and even though her behavior had a physical cause, it gave her the distance from the current crisis to let go of it a little bit. And eventually, I'd be able to hug on her a little and tell her how much I loved being with her and watching shows and learning new things.

 

She always had to save face, so power struggles were pointless, and as previous posters pointed out, she couldn't reason during the fit.

 

But a few hours afterwards, I could talk to her about how it is my job to keep everybody safe and how we were going to work together to make things better.

 

I guess I'm going down my own memory lane and remembering how helpless I felt.

 

I agree that keeping an ABC journal would help. One day, my oldest pointed out that Dd had a fit every time we ordered pizza. That was the first step in actually solving the mystery.

[gardenmom5]

There have been a lot of things I have read that have indicated that a lot of the things you are finding your ds doing may have nutritional type remedies that could improve or at least alleviate the situation.  That your ds panics from closeness to me seems particularly indicative and so I have linked just one example with regard to anxiety.  Possibly if closeness did not lead to anxiety/panic in your ds, you would have a whole better approach available to working with other problems he is having.  Also, in my personal experience, Niacinamide (B3) and B Complex vitamins help with anxiety And also tantrum, aggression etc. type behavior.  At one point when my ds was at a Waldorf school, it was sort of a joke amongst moms when a child started to tantrum to say first for the mom to take her own B Complex in order to be calm enough to deal with the kid, then to get the kid to take his or her B vitamins. And, for a lot of kids, it was amazing to behold.  and a help for the reactive moms too...

 

http://www.orthomolecular.com/?ctr=illness&act=show&id=14

 

And one with regard to aggressive behavior:

http://rnblog.rockwellnutrition.com/nutritional-remedies-aggressive-violent-behavior/

 

I wouldn't go playing around without guidance of someone who knows what they're doing - too many unknown factors - and you can get things going in a competely different direction. much of what I do with dudeling is under supervision of his ND - and she does blood work to see what various levels of things are.  there is such a thing as too much.

 

I've dealt with the aggression - and the anxiety that made everything worse.  I have very high regard for ***quality*** sups - there is a HUGE different on the market.  bvitamins - are NOT created equal.   just for bare starters  -  IF there is a MTHF mutation - there are things he should be avoiding - i.e. folic acid - which is 100% synthetic - but you will find in almost every otc b-complex.  it will be sucked up by teh receptors - but it can't be used until it's converted - and that causes other problems because the conversion ratio is lower than for someone without it.

 

because I'm homozygous - and dudeling is affected heterozygous - we both take mthf - and not all mthf is created equal either. I'm fortunate to be near a compounding pharmacy that sources theirs from teh same place as thorne.  I had been on deplin ( the rx form) and had felt it go "backwards" when I started.  then I started onto the compounded/thorne-equitable - and three days later it was "yep, this is what it's supposed to feel like.

 

I did find it very helpful to start a b-complex - but it made a huge and noticeable difference when I switched to a good quality one.   even  though I'd been on a double dose of the previous mid-level for several years - when i switched to a quality one - it was like someone flipped a switch.

 

I don't use niacinamide- we use very specifically nicotinamide riboside-  and studies have shown superiority in how it get's into the mitochondria of the cell.

 

he responded very well to banning preservatives/nitrates/nitrites and adding NAC (n-acetyl cystine - naturally occuring) when dealing with aggresion

 

 

we've also done different things for anxiety - some of which did absolute wonders and only now as hormones are kicking in things are changing up a big - though he's still doing very well.  

 

my dd is a pharmd - we've talked about drugs for him - and many she's not comfortable giving to a child.

 

Just to rabbit trail this a minute, methylation defects are common in this mix, and the niacin can bring down overly high methyl levels. The whole methylation gig is definitely something for the OP to look into. Typically they will use anti-depressants for anxiety, but people with high methyl levels (from the particular methylation defect) will get WORSE on anti-depressants sometimes. 

 

this.

[gardenmom5]

Even if an anti-depressant would be of help, I personally tend to want to go with foods before supplements, and supplements before pharmaceutical drugs.  Because we clearly need food, and as was said already in ancient Greece, it should be our best medicine.  But also there may well be a lack of some vitamin or mineral that is needed by the body, and maybe can not be gotten enough of from food.  I know I myself have B vitamin issues... have cracks at my mouth corners right now even though I try to eat foods high in B vitamins, so only remedy then is to add more as supplements. Even then I think I tend to run on the low side, or have trouble metabolizing what I take in.

 

One would hate to be only focussing on behavior issues, spanking etc., only to find that some food change or supplement help could alleviate the situation.  Sort of like it not being fair to whip scurvied sailors for lack of work and bad attitude when what they needed was to eat limes.

 

i fully agree - for me rx are a last resort.  too many times they're band-aids, but dont actually fix the problem.

 

some kids have absorption issues - so even if they are eating well - they aren't absorbing adequate nutrients.   and most kids in this area - dont' eat well.  and as for vitamins - there are a lot of crappy ones out there that are a waste of money and not only don't help -- but some actually have done harm.

I've become a vitamin snob.

[Arcadia]

That's kind of a consoling thought if 10/12 is the survived it, looking up point. I've kinda heard puberty and hormones can be bad. :(

DS12 is having a salmon craving, both the sashimi kind and the sushi kind. The last time he had a salmon craving was before 1 year old. I am guessing he is feeling omega3 deficient due to growth spurt despite taking fish oil. He actually needs more mommy time again to calm down and sleep and ask for back massage at bedtime.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Arcadia

[PeterPan]

...

For my son, I try to consistently follow-through.  Which means, if I'm going to assign a consequence, it's got to be something I'm willing to enforce.  

 

I also learned to almost never draw a line in the sand, meaning, I almost never say, "Whatever you do, don't touch this," because it was basically an invitation to do what I said don't do.  In fact, even if I attached a consequence to it ("If you touch that, I will take it away for five minutes.") he'd still do it.  It's like he has to constantly check and make sure that I'm going to be consistent because at one point, I may not be.

 

He's also the kid that refused to choose between two undesired choices.  If he didn't want to go to church, it didn't matter if I was asking him if he wanted to wear the blue pants or the brown pants.  He'd reply, "Neither."  And then if I made the choice for him, he'd have drama.

 

So, when he's throwing a fit or not doing what he needs to, we tell him to take some time away.  I made the mistake of telling him at first to come back when he was ready to talk, but we ran into the issue where he would come back before he was ready.  In hindsight, I'd escort him to his room and then wait for him to calm down before allowing him to come out, holding the door handle if necessary.

...

 

Fwiw, the stuff she's describing here is, for us, ABA and how we work with my ds (ASD + gifted). We state the positive of what we want instead of the negative. Remember, if you give a negative command, not only do they have to want to comply, but they actually have to problem solve and think through alternatives and come up with another plan. If you simply state the positive version of what you want (stand here vs. don't do that), then it's less hurdle. 

 

What she's describing with him not being calm and telling him to take some time away is your self-regulation piece. Zones of Regulation goes into this big time. It's what we focus on a lot, lot, LOT in our house. Functional Communication Training: Teaching Asking for a Break - Autism Classroom Resources  Here's a link to take you farther. Think about this. We want him to recognize that he needs a break (how his body is doing, what Zone he is in, if you will), ASK for a break, and take an appropriate break. That's the LONG-TERM goal. I particularly like this article, because she suggests using terminology that works across environments and means something in ANY setting, like "I need to chill." 

 

Think about this. What happens if he's in Sunday School and gets frustrated? What if he's in a sports setting? So it goes way beyond can you compel your 3 yo into a room for however many minutes till it cools down. Where this is really going is that he has to be able to say I NEED TO CHILL, choose an appropriate way to chill, and go do it and come back. That's language, that's self-regulation, lots of things coming together.

 

When we started, my ds, for any incident, was going to be unable to calm down and come back to work for 45 minutes. Like chalk it up, at LEAST 45 minutes. And sometimes 2 hours, sometimes the whole day. Now, after working on it a year, we're under 5 minutes. Like really, he goes yellow or red zone, we see or he sees, he goes to take a break, and he'll be back in 3-5 min. That's something we can work with, because every provider working with him (speech therapist, OT, anyone) can know the behavior plan, that he's going to go to a safe place and take a break, that they should let him calm down, and he'll return and be ready to work.

 

This article I linked gives some really neat ways to work on taking breaks *pro-actively*. We already build them into our schedule. The OP's psych is saying structure. My workers have a written plan (that includes choice, sure) but the basic flow now for ds is 2 things, break, 2 things, break. When we started, his flow was literally one thing, TWO breaks, one thing, TWO breaks, kid you not. But that was where he was. It was that hard. And that was, um, age 7, newly 8. Now he does 2 things (10 min each), and does a 10 minute break activity of some kind. This helps him stay calm.  Even then, we STILL need chill breaks. Say someone mispronounces a word. He's going to go ballistic and need a break. 

 

So besides the scheduled breaks and the chill breaks because something comes up, you can also PRACTICE those chill breaks. The article describes how. They suggest having a very discrete physical or verbal prompt that you could do ANYWHERE and drilling it. Like literally you just say hey, today we're going to practice taking chill breaks on our secret code. Here's the code, when I do the secret code, you practice the chill break. There are tons of modifications like using picture supports, etc. You could choose something like a secret hand signal or a way you touch his hand, whatever. 

 

When our kids take chill breaks, at first they might not be able to chill with people around. So that means they need a place to retreat to. Small, soft, safe. We cleaned out the closet in my ds' room, and don't keep valuable things in there. Sometimes kids can't advocate very well for themselves and say what they need, so you might try to notice where he likes to chill or what kinds of set-ups he seems to seek when he needs to chill. That way you can make sure he has access to that. It's a long-term goal to get them able to chill with other people around, sure. If they need to share a bedroom with a sibling, then it's going to be especially important they have a small, soft, safe, dedicated space where they can chill. That way the siblings know stay out, this is his space to chill. Or maybe it's community chill space, but it's only one person at a time, dunno. When we lose my ds' space to chill, he gets VERY STRESSED. It's a really important thing to make sure they have a place to go for those breaks. If we travel and are in a hotel, I make sure he's going to have a space to chill.

 

I took my ds to the fabric store and let him pick out a variety of textures of fabrics for the sensory. (fuzzy, slippery, etc.) I made covers for a bunch of old feather pillows from Odd Lots. So the floor of the closet is covered in a bunch of those pillows with textures. He will rip up things like stuffed animals and breaks hangers, sigh. I actually think the breaking of the hangers is stress relieving to him, and I've chosen to let it go. Some people pop bubbles or rip paper. My ds has ripped money before, sigh. Ripping paper can be calming when you're red zone. Zones actually has you go through and make a list of things to do in each zone. You can make flip books where you show your plan. 

 

The point of all that intervention is you're using their meta-cognitive, their ability to THINK ABOUT THEIR THINKING. That's why I keep saying he's high IQ, get these interventions. It's a meta-cognitive approach to behavior, recognizing that he has the ability, with instruction, to begin thinking about his thinking and to start to realize WHEN he feels a certain way, WHAT he's feeling, and what choices he could make that are better. My ds was a constant VICTIM of his body and neurology until we brought in this meta-cognitive approach. It's really, really important. It's a process, not something that you just teach them and they do, bam. They're going to do it with supports and eventually grow into it and take over for themselves. 

 

This type of meta-cognitive approach works across DSM labels, so whether it's ASD or NVLD or ADHD or whatever, it's still going to be beneficial. 

[PeterPan]

DS12 is having a salmon craving, both the sashimi kind and the sushi kind. The last time he had a salmon craving was before 1 year old. I am guessing he is feeling omega3 deficient due to growth spurt despite taking fish oil. He actually needs more mommy time again to calm down and sleep and ask for back massage at bedtime.

 

I give my ds flax oil for the omega3. I agree with you that the cravings definitely tell you things! We eat salmon too, sure. When ds was little, he smelled like fish if you fed him fish and got REALLY, really fussy. Ditto for fish oil. Now we let him eat fish, but I just try to watch it. There's a name for the smells like fish thing, but it doesn't seem to be an issue now, dunno.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, we have chosen *not* to use physical restraint with my ds. Unless there is absolutely positively a compelling reason, we avoid it. The reason, in his particular case, is because he is SO physical and also sensory-seeking. He will actually TRY to provoke a physical response from you, because it will give him a way to uptempo HIS physical. So that bizarre cycle of kids provoking the workers so they can get restrained to meet their sensory needs does happen. It's what we assessed we were on the edge of with my ds. 

 

It's challenging, because physical restraint is common in schools. It's like a dirty secret. Going meta-cognitive is a lot, lot slower, sigh. However in the last year we've gone from multi-hour to 5 minutes to cool down, which to me means we're at least going the right direction.

 

If my ds is having a bad day because of things he eats (yes, dairy, sigh, which he can do on occasion but can't do all the time, especially straight cow's milk), then I'm going to just give him Calm Child (herbal tincture) and be done with it. At that point his body is so out of whack from the chemicals misproduced because of the dairy that I know no amount of meta-cognitive is going to get him where he needs to be. We just have to back off on demands, be safe, be calm, make for peace. But that's when I'm going to use Calm Child, sure. 

[PeterPan]

OP at one point, but I can't find it now you wrote that when you ds is into one of his states you can't find a way to get him out of it.

 

This is pretty typical for everyone though. Once into a reaction and still reacting is not a time when reason can prevail even for most adults.  

 

Bingo. It's why you need to ABC and why you need to log duration. The behaviorist they refer you to would appreciate the data. They can scan that data and quickly find patterns and help you problem solve. If you actually want HELP, then make data. Any time I'm trying to problem solve and buckle down, I make data. 

 

Our workers fill out data forms after every session. The behaviorist updated the forms recently. Reality is the behaviors and responses tend to fall into patterns, so now we have forms that are literally just tick, tick, tick, super quick to fill out. 

 

Data lets you quantify the effectiveness of your approach and methodologies. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[HTRMom]

Ok. I'm going to read up on this ABC thing and see what I can do.

 

 

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[PeterPan]

Stop That Seemingly Senseless Behavior!: FBA-based Interventions for People with Autism (Topics in Autism)

 

Again, ignore that it says autism and use it anyway. Excellent, concise explanation of ABC, the functions of behavior, etc. You can get it on kindle and read it today.

[TheReader]

Ditto, ditto, ditto to everything OhElizabeth said. We use the Zones of Regulation with my youngest, too, and it's helping so.very.much. We're still in the learning phase, where mostly we notice the need for a chill break, but then he does go do it. Sometimes he notices it himself. Well, he must notice, because the need to take the chill breaks (as far as me having to tell him) are decreasing. 

 

But, this is also stuff we've been working on for.....close to a year? So, yes, slow process, and everyone in the house needs to know the wording to use and what he can do to chill, when to prompt him (ie., don't wait for red zone), etc. Everybody has to be on-board with it and cooperate with it. But when they do, it helps. 

 

The ABC thing is helpful to; we figured out one particular food trigger for my ds that way, but not until we started doing exactly that -- write down every time he had the unwanted behavior. Now, what had happened before that? What did we do after that worked (or not)? Eventually we noticed that cereal, and in particular Fruit Loops, was the trigger. At the time, the only common denominator between all the cereals that triggered him was corn, so all corn-based cereals were out, period, the end. 

 

We've been able to add them back in, sometimes, but even now (and this was years ago) I still see some negative effects from Fruit Loops. No idea what is in those that isn't in other cereals (even other junky cereals), but we just do not buy them anymore. Every now and then we'll try, and the result is never anywhere near as bad as it used to be, but if I notice anything at all after he eats them, away they go. 

 

Anyway, yes, ditto to Elizabeth; she's  a wealth of information on all of this and has helped me a lot with figuring out my own son, too. Best of luck to you, and do pop over to the Learning Challenges board if or when you need more pep talks, advice, tips, etc. 

[PeterPan]

Btw, there are some phrases you can use instead of saying no. No increases oppositional behavior. (Bible concept: where there is no law, there is no sin. The law actually INCREASES the sin.) So instead we can say "That's not a choice" or something similar. You can look at an action/behavior he's having and say "You need to make a better choice" or "What other choice can you make" rather than saying no. 

 

Structure is a strong tool for reducing anxiety. It might help you to make a LIST of situations where you're seeing anxiety. Anxiety with transitions, when things don't go his way, when he's unclear about expectations...

 

If you can get him to do ANY form of mindfulness, even for just a few minutes, it can bump EF (executive function) and hence self-regulation by 30%. Sitting Still Like a Frog / Sitting Still Like a Frog / Shambhala Here's a link to the tracks to do it for free. Even if you just put it on while he's having a quiet time, even if he's just listening passively, you might be surprised what it could do for him. Not as a cure cure all, but maybe as a piece and a tool to get you some bits of improvement while you work on bigger picture things.

Edited June 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

But, this is also stuff we've been working on for.....close to a year? So, yes, slow process, and everyone in the house needs to know the wording to use and what he can do to chill, when to prompt him (ie., don't wait for red zone), etc. Everybody has to be on-board with it and cooperate with it. But when they do, it helps. 

 

 

Congrats, Reader, on your progress! That's amazing if he's self-advocating and asking for the breaks himself, wow! 

 

Yes, what the op may find is that as she learns things the other people around her aren't in the same place, keeping up with the growth. You can have a point where there are differences in expectations and approaches. Inlaws can say things. Our sports coaches will have opinions and think they don't need to follow the behavior plans, that they know stuff too... Then we're having to pull back and go ok, unified front, everyone follows the plan. Your methods might be awesome, but to avoid confusing we have ONE plan.

 

We tell our coach that if it's crossing his mind that something is not right (ie. he's Yellow Zone, but the coach doesn't get that), then he should tell him to take a break on the bench. And the coach thinks that's terrible, that it's getting him out of work. People are just so willing to have their own opinion!! And we're like no, it's giving him a chance to cool down, we're working on him taking breaks and keeping calm and we want it BEFORE he's red zone and hot. 

 

So yeah, that's your sort of memory lane thing there. May all your people around you be supportive. For us, it varies. Younger people tend to be more like oh yeah, whatever your behaviorist says is what we'll do. Older people blow you off. That's what gets people hurt. So you learn to be insistent, sigh.

Edited June 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Yes, you need to address behaviours...

 

Ok, just to dig in the weeds a bit, it *is* a choice to ignore behaviors. Your response should fit the function of the behavior. The book I linked earlier will explain it.

 

Here are a couple articles.

 

DOs and DON'Ts for Responding to Challenging Behavior - Autism Classroom Resources

Behavioral Tools for Perfectionists' Meltdowns - Autism Classroom Resources  This article mentions the 5 Point Scale. The op's ds could probably handle this. EXTREMELY valuable tool.

Thomas and the Thinking Chair: Why "Consequences" Aren't Always What You Need - Autism Classroom Resources

 

Remember, your methods are effective when the undesired behavior is decreasing or the targeted behavior is increasing. It's not like we just keep doing things and hope for some magic CLICK. We actually want to quantify it and be able to say our methods are working or are not working.

Edited June 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Desert Strawberry]

There's a ton of info and a fair bit of judgement in this thread already. I just want to give you some support and btdt. 

 

My third child was like this. He was difficult right from birth. At 3 I had 3 6 and under plus one more. He was harder than all my other kids combined. I expected ODD or CD would be in his future.

 

For us, I think it was mostly a medical problem. He had protein allergies that caused digestive problems and behavioral problems. He will be 8 next week. We are still trying to straighten it all out.He has gotten much, much easier. 

 

You have all of my sympathies. It was so hard. 

what you are doing is so hard. 

 

I used to sleep with my hand clenched around his wrist so that I would wake up if he tried to escape. I tomato staked him for years. If I took my eyes off of him, he would be off destroying something in seconds. He is bright and crafty. He's my evil genius. He is exhausting. I know yours is, too. 

 

I lost my cool with him so often. I still do sometimes, though much less now. I am not proud. I almost wish I could do it over, do it better, but it would be every bit as hard and I'm sure I wouldn't do it any better. 

 

Hugs, so many hugs my dear. I've been there. I understand.

 

 

[Selkie]

:grouphug: , OP. That sounds very challenging. If he were my child, I would be troubled by some of the behaviors you have described, specifically the lack of empathy and aggression towards his brother. I hope you find the answers you need and that things get better for you and your little guy. :grouphug:    

[HTRMom]

If it helps, I know that he has sugar malabsorption. I've been to a pediatric gastroenterologist who told me to limit dairy (he's also allergic to dairy protein) and fructose, and we wouldn't do anything more unless he continued to drop in growth curves. His BMI had already dropped from 20% to 3%, so I'm not sure why she wasn't more concerned! He seems to have put on a little weight now, but he has never had a formed stool in his life. I've eliminated everything I can possible think of for over a month. My 2yo has all the same problems plus eczema. He did allergy testing, blood and skin, and there was a very slight reaction to egg and wheat but elimination did nothing for him either. I wish I could figure out the diarrhea issue, I imagine it would help at least somewhat with his behavior. They also did a blood test for celiac which was negative.

 

 

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[Tanaqui]

Yes, this information is really useful in getting a full picture.

 

Intestinal issues are pretty common among autistics, so you should definitely bring that up to a specialist.

 

The diarrhea is... well, I doubt it makes him very happy. If I had the runs, all the time, I'd be cranky too. You're right in that it sounds like something likely to affect his behavior. Have you brought this up with your existing psych? Or, for that matter, did you bring up the behavioral issues with the gastroenterologist? This information might help either one of them zone in on the right diagnosis. I don't know what is and isn't relevant, but it seems reasonable to me to assume that the two sets of issues might be connected.

[Pen]

If it helps, I know that he has sugar malabsorption. I've been to a pediatric gastroenterologist who told me to limit dairy (he's also allergic to dairy protein) and fructose, and we wouldn't do anything more unless he continued to drop in growth curves. His BMI had already dropped from 20% to 3%, so I'm not sure why she wasn't more concerned! He seems to have put on a little weight now, but he has never had a formed stool in his life. I've eliminated everything I can possible think of for over a month. My 2yo has all the same problems plus eczema. He did allergy testing, blood and skin, and there was a very slight reaction to egg and wheat but elimination did nothing for him either. I wish I could figure out the diarrhea issue, I imagine it would help at least somewhat with his behavior. They also did a blood test for celiac which was negative.

 

 

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What is he eating currently? And what level of processed vs. whole, conventional vs. organic, etc.?  If you keep a log, getting this info down and what happens after and by how long (though results may be to a food from a day before rather than due to the most recent intake) may help figuring out more about what is going on.

 

Is he getting fructose from sources other than whole fruit?  Fruit juice?  Soda drinks?

 

He may be reactive to a group of things such that eliminating say wheat and egg does not help due to reactions to dairy and fructose. And he may not be truly "allergic" in terms of histamine type reactions or whatever is picked up in the testing, but still reactive.  My kid is extremely sugar reactive, but not actually allergic, for example.

 

Have you tried food rotation?  It is hard to do, but with 2 kids with issues, it could be a help in itself, or again help to pin put what is going on.

 

And you may need a naturopath or environmental health MD specialist or anyway a change in your medical side specialitsts as well as the ones on the psychological side.

[PeterPan]

If it helps, I know that he has sugar malabsorption. I've been to a pediatric gastroenterologist who told me to limit dairy (he's also allergic to dairy protein) and fructose, and we wouldn't do anything more unless he continued to drop in growth curves. His BMI had already dropped from 20% to 3%, so I'm not sure why she wasn't more concerned! He seems to have put on a little weight now, but he has never had a formed stool in his life. I've eliminated everything I can possible think of for over a month. My 2yo has all the same problems plus eczema. He did allergy testing, blood and skin, and there was a very slight reaction to egg and wheat but elimination did nothing for him either. I wish I could figure out the diarrhea issue, I imagine it would help at least somewhat with his behavior. They also did a blood test for celiac which was negative.

 

 

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That sounds like a pretty significant physical problem to get under control. You aren't going to get behavior under control if his body is dealing with that much.

[Pen]

Have you had a stool sample tested? I'd try that and just see if it shows anything.

 

 

I agree.  

 

It also may help to have some idea of things that he might have been exposed to in terms of diseases, parasites,  if there has been any out of country travel, or other unusual things that might not be looked for typically where you would now get health care.

 

I know OP said they are in a rural area, as are we.  In our rural area there are things like rabbit fever, parasites from banana slugs, tick borne diseases, water borne parasites, etc., that they don't tend to consider at medical facilities in the city near us.

[HTRMom]

Yes, I've had stool samples. The abnormalities are low pH and high sugar content, hence the sugar malabsorption.

 

I tried a very basic eliminate-everything diet for a month last year. No help whatsoever. I can't remember exactly what I had him on, but it was a hypoallergenic diet involving a lot of chicken and rice.

 

I have told each professional about the behavior plus loose stool issue.

 

He eats one piece of fruit daily and has orange juice in the morning. Again, we tried absolutely no fruit for 3 weeks with no improvement. If he has more than that, he goes from chronic loose stool to nasty diarrhea.

 

 

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[gardenmom5]

If it helps, I know that he has sugar malabsorption. I've been to a pediatric gastroenterologist who told me to limit dairy (he's also allergic to dairy protein) and fructose, and we wouldn't do anything more unless he continued to drop in growth curves. His BMI had already dropped from 20% to 3%, so I'm not sure why she wasn't more concerned! He seems to have put on a little weight now, but he has never had a formed stool in his life. I've eliminated everything I can possible think of for over a month. My 2yo has all the same problems plus eczema. He did allergy testing, blood and skin, and there was a very slight reaction to egg and wheat but elimination did nothing for him either. I wish I could figure out the diarrhea issue, I imagine it would help at least somewhat with his behavior. They also did a blood test for celiac which was negative.

 

 

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is the GI concerned about casein (protein) or lactose (sugar) in the dairy?   read labels (yes I know, tiresome refrain) - just because it's not dairy - doesn't mean it wasn't added. .  . . including soaps and paints.

 

do you have ped ND anywhere in your area?   dudeling was small - very skinny - slim jeans long enough for him were too big in the waist and his dr had the audacity to tell me he had a high bmi.

 

because he ate so poorly - I tried vitamins - took me A LONG time to find one he would take.  I lucked on it being a good quality one.  and we all noticed an improvement.  (even dd - who was hearing in her pharmacy classes what a rip off the supplement industry is . . .)

 

it's possible to be sensitive to gluten - but NOT test positive for celiac- they are different processes and the blood test doesn't work for that.  gluten sensitivity is also more than just wheat. 

 

that first summer after I started him with a ND, and melatonin to help him sleep (which he actually liked, he was sleeping an additional two hours a night and he noticed he felt better to the point he was asking for it) - he had a growth spurt of about two inches.

[gardenmom5]

you know - I used to have (TMI warning)  poorly formed stool . . . . completely disappeared when I started NDT. for my hypothyroid.  which also affects adrenals.   I've gone through the lists - and I see many things I dealt with as a kid, on those lists.  and can see i was dealing with stuff for decades before I was tested.

kids can have these issues - my friends 7yo daughter was diagnosed. 

 

among his sups, dudeling takes ashwagandha combined with bacopa - specifically for anxiety.  (heaven sent.  really) . . . . ashwagandha - is also used as an adrenal support.   so - his ND hasn't tested him for adrenal or thyroid - because he's already getting so much adrenal support.

 

adrenals (especially) can cause anxiety galore.

 

I'm not suggesting you test adrenals/thyroid - just throwing it out there.  and if you do test - the ONLY adrenal test that is accurate  is the 24hr saliva test. (not the blood test.)

 

brings back memories of trying to do a blood test on dudeling when he was four.  it took THREE people to hold him down, while the fourth did a draw. not pretty.  he also wouldn't stand on a scale.  they move . . . .  he will now (finally) but still tries to get away with leaning against the wall. . . but that's more about not wanting anyone to know how much he weighs. (asd and privacy)

[hjffkj]

If he stares at me, scowls, and dumps juice on the floor or throws something or bites me, what motive is there besides making me angry? It's just fun to scowl and bite and throw?

 

 

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My dd used to do this and my 4 year old does it now because they were unable to communicate their emotions and cope with them. For dd it was anxiety causing it. She was incredibly anxious and didn't know how to cops, so when something set her off she would throw things, hit, bite, scream, etc. She wouldn't talk at all but would often look for a reaction from me. It wasn't about trying to make me angry it was about trying to figure out if she could trust me to be a safe person to go to for help. I reacted like you with yelling and taking it personally at first. That just made things worse because she stopped trusting me and her meltdowns would become even worse because her anxiety was worse. Eventually I stopped telling back and started earning her trust back by talking constantly about how I was sorry, how I'm here to work with her to find ways to cope with her feelings. It was intense and a long process. Now at 7 she very rarely loses control.

 

I'm still working with my 4 year old on coping skills and figuring out what causes him to lose control.

 

The book the Explosive Child was helpful. But devoting extra time with the kid and neglecting the others for a bit was needed. But I let my kids know I was intentionally spending more time with their sister to help her and in turn help the while family.

[Pen]

Yes, I've had stool samples. The abnormalities are low pH and high sugar content, hence the sugar malabsorption.

 

I tried a very basic eliminate-everything diet for a month last year. No help whatsoever. I can't remember exactly what I had him on, but it was a hypoallergenic diet involving a lot of chicken and rice.

 

I have told each professional about the behavior plus loose stool issue.

 

He eats one piece of fruit daily and has orange juice in the morning. Again, we tried absolutely no fruit for 3 weeks with no improvement. If he has more than that, he goes from chronic loose stool to nasty diarrhea.

 

 

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Sounds very frustrating!!!

 

Here for elimination diet purposes I was advised to go with something  uncommon to start with, such as rabbit or venison, that there would be unlikely to be pre-existing issues with.  But it may be that aside from sugars, the diet is not the main culprit in the symptoms.

 

Juices like OJ contain a lot of sugars and they are delivered in a very concentrated way that can go into the system much faster than a whole fruit (or even something like a cookie). A family member  who has serious sugar metabolism issues is not allowed any fruit juice (or other sugary drinks) at all.  Even a sip can cause trouble. He is allowed a bit of whole fruit from time to time, however.  Every couple or few days. Some types of fruit are more allowed than others--like I think grapes were a problem even as whole fruit, for example, while apple was okay.

 

For a lot of people rice alone--esp white rice without the bran fiber-- tends to be firming, sometimes too firming, so, possibly, I would think that if rice alone for a few days still leaves loose BM, rice might itself be a problem food for him, even though it isn't for many people.  Or if your rice is not carefully organic grown and processed, it could be that he is reacting to something it was grown with or processed with, rather than the rice itself.

 

 

Have you looked any at  Doris Rapp, MD,  info?  

 

GAPS type diet info?  I never went that route, but maybe it would be a thing to check out.

 

There seems clearly to be a physical problem.  There may be other things going on, but somehow figuring out the physical side seems like it would be key.

 

 

 

Even if primarily physical is at base of your ds's issues, I also recommend  The Explosive Child book.

[musicianmom]

If you're going to teach zones of regulation to a gifted child, do it while they're still 3 or so. My child, who desperately needed to learn the concepts, was so put off by the language and approach that she refused to cooperate with what the therapist was trying to teach her. Even at age 6-7, she felt patronized and found the colors babyish.

[hjffkj]

At bedtime tonight I spent an hour with a screaming 4 year old who knocked down his shelf of toy bins, threw toys at his bedroom door, tried to hit and kick me, tried to lock me in his bedroom, and was just all around out of control. He stared at me looking for a reaction the entire time. When I engaged calmly he got furious, when I engaged in annoyance he got even worse, when I stayed with him but ignored it he lashed out more but slowly calmed down.

 

Once he was able to comply with the simple instructions that I will talk to him if he's in his bed I knew I could try to figure out what was wrong. I asked if it felt like his brain was telling him 2 things, 1. That he needed me and 2. That he was mad at me. He was able to say yes that's what his brain kept telling him. I assured him that was all normal and sometimes are brain wants more than one thing at a time. I assured him I loved him and that I would help him figure out why he was having mixed feelings and how to handle them but tonight wasn't the night to do all that. His brain was too tired. We told each other stories and he fell asleep. This doesn't happen every night, but he usually has at least one meltdown a day(usually not that bad.) It is a process and patience is key. I'm not perfect and I mess up often, I did tonight and that is why it took over an hour to resolve things. The one thing that I never do is spank though. I learned from DD that it simply doesn't help in the long run.

[PeterPan]

At bedtime tonight I spent an hour with a screaming 4 year old who knocked down his shelf of toy bins, threw toys at his bedroom door, tried to hit and kick me, tried to lock me in his bedroom, and was just all around out of control...

 

I've found with ds that I have to transition to bed *much* earlier than it feels like we should. It's hard with the long days. I keep a jammie alarm on my phone to remind me to put him into pajamas. For real. And it's set for about 1 hour before I'd really like him to be in bed and 1 1/2-2 hours before my desperate to have him in bed time. So even if he's not actually going into bed, he's already in jams, eating his last meal of the day, and has hopefully getting his teeth brushed. There's nothing worse than getting to when it's time for him to go to sleep and realizing we don't have any of that stuff done. That's when it gets hairy

 

The other thing that changed for us when we started ABA was we started to be able to say things like "when you do that, it scares me, and when I'm scared I don't want to be around you." So they start to see that other people have feelings about their behaviors. If there's NO consequence (not perjorative, but a response of some kind), then it short circuits that process of them realizing we have feelings about it. It can be later, but we can start to do that. We started doing that all day long for EVERY negative/scary/whatever behavior, same mantra: When you do that, that scares me, and when you scare me I don't want to be around you and we can't be together. And since he's obviously motivated by your presence and WANTING to be together, then LOSING your presence is a consequence! So now you've gotten back the ability to have a consequence but still not be feeding it or reinforcing the negative.

 

It really sounds like he's looking to you to help self-regulate. If you start on the bedtime routine early, before he's tired, then it's only compliance and not fatigue on top of compliance. So you can use an approach like "When you're mad at the plan and you get angry and throw things it scares me and then I can't be around you. When you're calm, I can come back." And you walk out and shut the door. And if he breaks things, you go back in, reiterate the rule (no breaking things, no destroying things), and leave again quietly. 

 

It's all hard stuff, sigh. Btdt a little too much. But the social thinking piece is for him to realize people have feelings about his behaviors.

 

Yeah, it would be nice if we were all perfectly energetic and could think through every situation ahead and NEVER goof up and NEVER have our kids having preventable meltdowns, ugh. I'm not there. They have enough meltdowns that aren't preventable. Anything that I can prevent with extra structure and planning, I'm going to try to do.

 

You know another way to go at that is to set up a positive consequence that happens if he does the routine earlier. Like with ds, pjs on early with the alarm, teeth brushed, then we have time to read comics with Daddy! So that's a *positive* consequence and a motivator that we are PAIRING with the demand (get ready for bed at this early time when the alarm goes off). A lot of times I pair it with Mythbusters. He's super, super into Mythbusters, and they show it at like 9pm around here, sigh. I'd rather have him in bed earlier, but if he's totally in pjs and READY for bed, then I can flex on that, kwim? So then I get what I want (smooth bedtime transition) and he gets what he wants (Mythbusters).

[Frances]

I'm overwhelmed by the number of responses in just a few hours. I'll have to think about it and respond tomorrow.

 

We do have many positive interactions. I was focusing on the bad here. We play games almost daily. I read him stories. I tell him I love him and kiss him lots. He helps me with dinner. We go for family walks. The time from 12:30-1:30 is just for the two of us every day.

 

He goes to preschool. I think it's socially satisfying for him but intellectually underwhelming. I think someone misread that I've had him tested with a high IQ. My DH and I have high IQ's. He is clearly quite advanced in certain areas. The psych says that he's gifted, but doesn't like to do IQ testing at 3 years old.

 

No, he cannot read. I want to teach him but his performance anxiety makes it difficult. The primer approach is impossible because it's pressure. I'm expecting him to just bust out reading one day next year, because that's his style.

 

The psychologist told me today that the next step is to increase the amount of structure to his day, so I'll be working on that.

 

He directs his intellectual energy to building things. His duplos and Lincoln logs are no longer challenging, so I'm going to get tinker toys or knex next, and maybe a small lego kit with instructions. He also finds 50-piece puzzles too easy. It's hard to keep up with his progress, he masters everything as quickly as I buy it. I'm probably holding him back by not providing the right level of stimulation.

 

If anyone has ideas for teaching a kid who will not perform under pressure to read, I'm all ears. Like, some way he can practice in secret. That's what he likes.

 

 

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I wouldn't worry about teaching him to read at three unless he is begging for it. If so, then I would find some electronic or computer way he can do it independently.

 

Have you tried audio books? At three my son would listen for hours to long chapter books while building and later drawing. Our library has a huge collection, we never bought any. Personally, I think preschoolers get way more out of being read to and listening to audio books than being taught to read. My son is highly gifted, especially verbally (aced verbal section of every standardized test he's ever taken, including SAT), and I didn't teach reading until six, almost seven.

 

K'nex and his dad's molecular model kits were his favorite building toys, but he was never interested in any of the kits with instructions, just designing and building his own creations, but every child is different. Later you might look into snap circuits or similar toys. And puzzles with more pieces should be easy and cheap.