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Kinsa

I live in the land of "chemtrails".

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Weird. Those of you who are explaining the birth certificate thing, where do you even find out about that? I'm on the internet all day long and have never seen any mention of that, and have only vaguely heard of chemtrails. I'm just curious where the conspiracy theorists are posting this stuff, because obviously I'm missing out on important information. :laugh:   

The first place I ever heard about the Sovereign Citizen nonsense was here, when the Nauglers had their 15 minutes a couple of years ago (those poor kids. . . I wonder how they are doing).  

 

I used to laugh at these types, but it is getting too dangerously common, IMO.

My nearest neighbor believes Sandy Hook was a hoax. He would bring us pics of these 'living kids/actors' whenever we invited him for lunch. My husband embarrassed us once when he asked the neighbor if he still listened to that nut on infowars, because he truly didn't get it at the time that the neighbor-man was serious.

Our mailman congratulated me on homeschooling once, saying he would do the same now that the government was forcing that new science at the schools...?

And sadly, we've just this afternoon seen the biggest example of that flat earth/infowar type mentality being forced on the entire world.

 

I'm so tired of the willful science ignorance.  I hate it when people assume we are YEC because we homeschool.  Um no.  

 

One problem with people like this is that the selection of facts to refute them is so many, that the mind can shut down picking the right one.  

 

According to my BIL, it is all faked.  He ignores you when you point out the google photos from satellites that are extremely accurate, as in the one that was taken while our roof was being replaced and I could recognize the guys.  Then he points out that they made a mistake by faking a wind blown flag on the moon.   Then he ignores you again when you point out the myth-buster episode that showed that is the stick flexing back and forth from being stuck into the ground (and no air resistance so it went on for a long time).  With the disease one, he ignored me when I pointed out that people would refer to "my first family" or "my second family" because it wasn't that unusual for one's spouse and kids to die of the same disease.   Or the dead homesteaders that DH had found dead in their beds when he was a teenager.  They had died a long time ago from back when that was a regular thing, and it was just so remote that no one else had stumbled upon the cottage.   There was desiccated food so it wasn't starvation.  He ignored that too.   Oh, and the Holocaust was faked.   He ignored me when I pointed out that he could go with his mom to the Jewish assisted living place where she worked as a companion, and someone would be able to explain things to him.   Notice the trend?  He ignored.   Of course, usually I just ignore him.  I don't even headnod or make the "I'm listening" sounds, not even the "I am humoring you that I am listening sounds"    If he were really evil he'd say something that made sense once.  

 

That reminds me of a guy I used to drink beer with, along with a group of other people.   He would spot off such nonsense that I would keep a count, out loud, of every time he said something that I thought was true that wasn't obvious like the "Sky is dark right now".   He would go months without adding one, and we met weekly.  He mostly didn't take himself seriously, and I love listening to a good conspiracy theory, even the contradictory ones.  But a few years after I stopped going, he went worse and was banned.  

Confirmation bias.  It's a real and dangerous thing. 

 

My mom is an RN and several of her colleagues believe in chemtrails.   I'm baffled by the fact that these are people with college degrees  in a *science* field who had to take multiple college-level *science* classes to get said degree!   

Edited by Forget-me-not
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You know what is really amazing about these beliefs is the level of organization, efficiency, and effective information control they attribute to our government :D

 

I've been a government employee, I've got nothing against government employees or organizations, but believe me--we just aren't THAT good.

I say the exact same thing! My husband has worked for the federal government for over 30 years, and I just have to laugh at people who think the government is THAT organized and efficient! And to make it work on a world-wide level? Nhuh-huh. Ain't happenin'.

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I'm meeting a lot of homeschoolers in my area that are really into "flat earth." Like, they believe the earth is flat.

My soon to be second grader has already dismissed them as kooks, and told them as much.

The earth can't be flat. If it was, cats would have knocked everything off of it by now!

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A friend of mine once woke up to her entire backyard covered in spider webs, and she saw tiny spiders crawling on the patio furniture (that had webs all over). She called a pest control guy out. The guy didn't see any spiders (her photos that she posted on FB had spiders in it - they were easy to see). He then said he thought it was chemtrails that had landed on her yard! In reality, it was a giant spider hatching. But the fact that the pest control guy was spreading conspiracy theories instead of treating the obvious pest problem... I suggested she not use that pest control company again. :p

I think I'd prefer chemtrails over that nightmare!

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The first place I ever heard about the Sovereign Citizen nonsense was here, when the Nauglers had their 15 minutes a couple of years ago (those poor kids. . . I wonder how they are doing).  

 

 

I'm so tired of the willful science ignorance.  I hate it when people assume we are YEC because we homeschool.  Um no.  

 

Confirmation bias.  It's a real and dangerous thing. 

 

My mom is an RN and several of her colleagues believe in chemtrails.   I'm baffled by the fact that these are people with college degrees  in a *science* field who had to take multiple college-level *science* classes to get said degree!   

 

my brother is an engineer . . . he sent me a video reading of a transcript supposedly written by a cern scientist on the run from black helicopters and men in black suits who wanted to kill them (so - this is being written and published by someone while on the run for their life . . . ok. . . )  - because cern opened a door into another dimension . . . . it took me less than five minutes to show him how it was someone's really really really bad attempt at sci-fi and had gone viral.  there were many commenters waiting for the rest because they wanted to see how it ended.

ll

he ignored me pointing this out to him.   I may not have a college degree - let alone in stem, but I'm not that gullible. . .

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We used to rent a house to a sovereign citizen, in fact, he was in jail for no driver's license when he signed the lease. The sheriffs were all betting that he wouldn't sign. He did, or we wouldn't have rented to him. He actually was a good tenant for many years, but I did refuse to take his sovereign silver coins for rent. He gave me a lecture about the banking system every month. Oh well. He has nice kids, some of whom still live in the house, along with the mom who just couldn't take it any more. We lost his youngest boy to Scouts because dad decided that he wouldn't allow the boy to say the Pledge of Allegiance. It was too bad, as Scouts would have been good for him. I paid the kid's Scout dues for a year when dad was in jail again. And I think dad's in jail right now, for a criminal trespass case, onto federal property. Ah yes, nut cases. 

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You know what is really amazing about these beliefs is the level of organization, efficiency, and effective information control they attribute to our government :D

 

I've been a government employee, I've got nothing against government employees or organizations, but believe me--we just aren't THAT good.

 

:lol: Quoted because liking it simply wasn't enough!  :lol:

 

But yes, apparently all but the wisest of us are in the Matrix (movie reference).

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and the earth IS flat. how can you say it's not?  we're a flat disc balanced on the backs of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle.

 

So what does the turtle stand on, huh?

 

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The first place I ever heard about the Sovereign Citizen nonsense was here, when the Nauglers had their 15 minutes a couple of years ago (those poor kids. . . I wonder how they are doing).  

 

 

I'm so tired of the willful science ignorance.  I hate it when people assume we are YEC because we homeschool.  Um no.  

 

Confirmation bias.  It's a real and dangerous thing. 

 

My mom is an RN and several of her colleagues believe in chemtrails.   I'm baffled by the fact that these are people with college degrees  in a *science* field who had to take multiple college-level *science* classes to get said degree!   

 

 

I worked in nursing for several years (went back to school when I figured out my degree was fairly worthless and was really impressed by a nurse practitioner I had).  You'd be shocked by the number of nurses that are idiots.  I'd say maybe 30%.

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I worked in nursing for several years (went back to school when I figured out my degree was fairly worthless and was really impressed by a nurse practitioner I had). You'd be shocked by the number of nurses that are idiots. I'd say maybe 30%.

Hey now! My mom resembles that remark! Sigh, I am sad to admit that you are not wrong in my experience.

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My mom is an RN and several of her colleagues believe in chemtrails.   I'm baffled by the fact that these are people with college degrees  in a *science* field who had to take multiple college-level *science* classes to get said degree!   

 

 

Hey now! My mom resembles that remark! Sigh, I am sad to admit that you are not wrong in my experience.

 

Yep. My daughter-in-law is a nurse and has colleagues who believe in conspiracy theories and/or are anti-vaccine. It's shocking and sad to know there are people in science fields with such beliefs.

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Yep. My daughter-in-law is a nurse and has colleagues who believe in conspiracy theories and/or are anti-vaccine. It's shocking and sad to know there are people in science fields with such beliefs.

 

To be fair, sometimes the vaccine skepticism thing is because of more information, not less.  When a third of your hospital has a negative reaction to a required flu shot and can never get another flu shot again you wonder. And when the hospital's health department that just forced you all to get a second shot that year and made a big deal in the media about their policy of forcing everyone to get the shot then tells you it's not that big of a deal because most people who die of CDC-reported "flu" deaths actually have hospital or bacterial pneumonia and were never exposed to the flu at all you really start to wonder why the hospital's PR was more important than their nurses' actual health.

 

I'm not anti-vaccine, but I, and probably half the nurses I know focus on different vaccines, in a different schedule, than other people I know.  I, for one, can never get another flu vaccine and don't give them to my family.  I hated flu-mist years before the issues with that were known.  I might encourage those with immune issues or who are elderly to get the shot, but otherwise it's a giant and dangerous waste.  One bad batch of vaccine can seriously give you nerve damage and mean that you can never get another flu shot again because of worries about Guillain-Barré syndrome.  Most years this isn't a big deal, but what happens if/when another serious, 1911 style flu epidemic happens and a large percentage of nurses can't get the shot for the serious strain because of a previous bad reaction?  I'm reserving flu shots for future epidemics, I'm not giving them willy-nilly so kids can avoid a week in bed with a fever and a cough every 3-5 years. Especially because now we know that a fair amount of "head colds" are actually minor flu infections.

 

My point is, I know plenty of nurses who now avoid flu shots.  I don't know many who don't give their children the rotavirus or meningitis vaccinations as soon as they can though.  Because those vaccines DO greatly reduce deaths.  And if I could give them lyme vaccines, I would.

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Could someone explain the chemtrail 'logic'?   I could google but lots of googling of that from this thread might give it a credence boost.  

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Could someone explain the chemtrail 'logic'?   I could google but lots of googling of that from this thread might give it a credence boost.  

 

Chemtrails can be tricky as like with the sovereign citizens, the true believers seems to reach their craziness through different avenues.  They can also really fight it out in their forum when they disagree.

 

Wikipedia does a decent job of breaking it down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

 

 

A 2014 paper presented results of reviewing 20 chemtrail websites found that believers appeal to science in some of their arguments, but do not believe what academic or government-employed scientists say;[27] scientists and federal agencies have consistently denied that chemtrails exist, explaining the sky tracks are simply persistent contrails.[2][11][29]

 

The 2014 paper also found that chemtrail believers generally hold that chemtrails are evidence of a global conspiracy; people who believe in the conspiracy allege various goals which include profit (for example, manipulating futures prices or making people sick to benefit drug companies), population control, or weapons testing (use of weather as a weapon, or testing bioweapons).[27][29][1] One of these ideas, is that clouds are being seeded with electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP).[30][31]

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I worked in nursing for several years (went back to school when I figured out my degree was fairly worthless and was really impressed by a nurse practitioner I had).  You'd be shocked by the number of nurses that are idiots.  I'd say maybe 30%.

 

Hey now! My mom resembles that remark! Sigh, I am sad to admit that you are not wrong in my experience

 

Mine either my mother in law and her best friend are both RN's and they haven't talked about these conspiracies but they are always jumping on the latest psuedo science bandwagon.

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Anyone else have this pop into their heads? Lol

 

 

 

That is awesome!

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The first place I ever heard about the Sovereign Citizen nonsense was here, when the Nauglers had their 15 minutes a couple of years ago (those poor kids. . . I wonder how they are doing).

 

 

I'm so tired of the willful science ignorance. I hate it when people assume we are YEC because we homeschool. Um no.

 

Confirmation bias. It's a real and dangerous thing.

 

My mom is an RN and several of her colleagues believe in chemtrails. I'm baffled by the fact that these are people with college degrees in a *science* field who had to take multiple college-level *science* classes to get said degree!

I don't see what is wrong with people having opinions. What does it hurt if they believe in chem-trails? Or a flat Earth? I know lots of people who believe the first moon landing was faked, intelligent people who have done their research and come to this conclusion. Does not make it true, but I would not invalidate something I couldn't "prove". Why is it okay to take everything the government tells you at face value, without researching at all? We believe anything that scientists tell us simply because they're scientists, so it must be true. Why not listen to the other side as well, and then do your own unbiased research and then come to your own conclusions?

 

For the record, I am not saying I believe in any of this. I just think our level of intolerance for people who don't think like we do is out of hand.

 

Carry on! This is an interesting discussion .

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There are certainly actions taken by some conspiracy theorists that can cause harm, like storming into Planet Ping Pong with a gun to investigate pizzagate rumors, or harassing and threatening family members of Sandy Hook victims.

Edited by Word Nerd
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I don't see what is wrong with people having opinions. What does it hurt if they believe in chem-trails? Or a flat Earth? I know lots of people who believe the first moon landing was faked, intelligent people who have done their research and come to this conclusion. Does not make it true, but I would not invalidate something I couldn't "prove". Why is it okay to take everything the government tells you at face value, without researching at all? We believe anything that scientists tell us simply because they're scientists, so it must be true. Why not listen to the other side as well, and then do your own unbiased research and then come to your own conclusions?

 

For the record, I am not saying I believe in any of this. I just think our level of intolerance for people who don't think like we do is out of hand.

 

Carry on! This is an interesting discussion .

 

On an individual basis, yes, it's fine if people believe any foolish thing they want to. But some beliefs have actual consequences when large numbers of people believe them. When large numbers of people don't vaccinate, measles and whooping cough make a come back. When large numbers of people believe climate change is a lie, they vote to spend less on research into alternative energy. The flat earth movement will probably never catch on in enough numbers to have any kind of harmful impact. But a general science illiteracy and distrust of science as a whole is harmful.

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I don't see what is wrong with people having opinions. What does it hurt if they believe in chem-trails? Or a flat Earth? I know lots of people who believe the first moon landing was faked, intelligent people who have done their research and come to this conclusion. Does not make it true, but I would not invalidate something I couldn't "prove". Why is it okay to take everything the government tells you at face value, without researching at all? We believe anything that scientists tell us simply because they're scientists, so it must be true. Why not listen to the other side as well, and then do your own unbiased research and then come to your own conclusions?

 

For the record, I am not saying I believe in any of this. I just think our level of intolerance for people who don't think like we do is out of hand.

 

Carry on! This is an interesting discussion .

 

This is why I categorize my conspiracy theory (or similar) reactions.  YEC/OEC/evolution?  Not an issue (with a few job or places of worship exceptions).  It's pretty akin to what one believes about Atlantis or Nazca lines, etc. There are different theories and a bit depends upon what one believes a Creator did.  

 

Denying that certain vaccines are worthy for the vast majority of people (vax like tetanus or measles or polio)?  That can do real harm to many individuals if/when outbreaks occur.  Denying Sandy Hook or the Holocaust happened when there is tons of real, hard, modern evidence - well... I bristle.  Those make me angry. 

 

If I met Flat Earth, I really probably would laugh.  Ditto if I met folks that think dinosaur bones (or other fossils) are faked.  I'm not sure there's harm, but personally I really question their intelligence - which would also make me question it on anything else TBH.

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This is why I categorize my conspiracy theory (or similar) reactions. YEC/OEC/evolution? Not an issue (with a few job or places of worship exceptions). It's pretty akin to what one believes about Atlantis or Nazca lines, etc. There are different theories and a bit depends upon what one believes a Creator did.

 

Denying that certain vaccines are worthy for the vast majority of people (vax like tetanus or measles or polio)? That can do real harm to many individuals if/when outbreaks occur. Denying Sandy Hook or the Holocaust happened when there is tons of real, hard, modern evidence - well... I bristle. Those make me angry.

 

If I met Flat Earth, I really probably would laugh. Ditto if I met folks that think dinosaur bones (or other fossils) are faked. I'm not sure there's harm, but personally I really question their intelligence - which would also make me question it on anything else TBH.

I really don't think intelligence--at least not IQ intelligence--is the problem.

 

I'm sure there are people with very high IQ's who buy into conspiracy theories.

 

I think it is more complex mental health issues at work in many cases. For example, anxiety can and will cause a person to look for threats everywhere, to give suggested or perceived threats a lot of credence, and to simultaneously discount information negating those threats. Not because their brain is lacking in intelligence but because it is primed to seek out and respond to danger. It is hard to counter what your own brain is telling you!

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I really don't think intelligence--at least not IQ intelligence--is the problem.

 

I'm sure there are people with very high IQ's who buy into conspiracy theories.

 

I think it is more complex mental health issues at work in many cases. For example, anxiety can and will cause a person to look for threats everywhere, to give suggested or perceived threats a lot of credence, and to simultaneously discount information negating those threats. Not because their brain is lacking in intelligence but because it is primed to seek out and respond to danger. It is hard to counter what your own brain is telling you!

 

This can be true with chem trails, etc, but I don't see it in Flat Earth or faked Dino bones.  This is why I mentioned questioning the intelligence of that group.

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This can be true with chem trails, etc, but I don't see it in Flat Earth or faked Dino bones. This is why I mentioned questioning the intelligence of that group.

Fear of hell?

 

I think both of these can be based on specific religious interpretations, so a person who fears their eternal salvation is dependent on adhering to a specific sort of interpretation may well be motivated in their belief by anxiety.

 

Course I'm just speculating.

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Fear of hell?

 

I think both of these can be based on specific religious interpretations, so a person who fears their eternal salvation is dependent on adhering to a specific sort of interpretation may well be motivated in their belief by anxiety.

 

Course I'm just speculating.

 

Yeah, I suppose you have a point there.  If you believe someone has control over your destiny (on earth or elsewhere) you can do or believe many things.  The Holocaust itself (and many terrorist acts) come to mind.  I guess we should be thankful for things we can chuckle at vs things that make us recoil in horror.

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Unfortunately, my ds has fallen prey to many garbage beliefs and theories. It is heartbreaking, to be honest. Chemtrails, Illuminati, gov't intentionally making us sick so it can sell us vaccines, FEMA trailers, Bill Gates conspiracies of the rich, and on and on and on. It has disrupted his relationship to his parents, his siblings, and who knows who else. It's awful. 

 

I have to have surgery on Monday for something fairly minor but important--he is so upset that I am going to die because of Western Medicine and the hospital's conspiracy to make me sick so they can heal me, that he spent a ton of money on a cure made by his "medical" practitioner. She saw me in her mind, diagnosed me, and carefully picked out various oils/substances from her shelf, which she prayed over (to whom, IDK) and then mixed for me. He is begging me to take it.  I can't take it. I won't play into that nonsense. And I am SO friggin angry at her for  fostering his multiple beliefs in utter, utter crap, even though I believe she means well. 

 

Youtube can be a wonderful playground and so very useful, but it is also the place where such evil (yep, I think it's evil) is spread.

As my daughter says, some of ds' information is good, true and beneficial, but there is just enough of that mixed into what is harmful and false that it negates the truth. She says, Well, that's how evil works, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

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For example, anxiety can and will cause a person to look for threats everywhere, to give suggested or perceived threats a lot of credence, and to simultaneously discount information negating those threats. Not because their brain is lacking in intelligence but because it is primed to seek out and respond to danger. It is hard to counter what your own brain is telling you!

 

I think that this is important.  My mum hasn't signed onto serious conspiracies (luckily she doesn't use the internet) but any newspaper article about predicted disaster, of whatever kind, feeds into her anxiety.  Now that she lives with me and we have a somewhat closer relationship, I'm able to say: 'Do you remember that asteroid that was meant to collide with the world 20 years ago when I was pregnant with Calvin....?'  

 

She's a very intelligent woman, but has never seen a glass half full nor a handbasket not full of people on their way to hell.

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I don't see what is wrong with people having opinions. What does it hurt if they believe in chem-trails? Or a flat Earth? I know lots of people who believe the first moon landing was faked, intelligent people who have done their research and come to this conclusion. Does not make it true, but I would not invalidate something I couldn't "prove". Why is it okay to take everything the government tells you at face value, without researching at all? We believe anything that scientists tell us simply because they're scientists, so it must be true. Why not listen to the other side as well, and then do your own unbiased research and then come to your own conclusions?

 

For the record, I am not saying I believe in any of this. I just think our level of intolerance for people who don't think like we do is out of hand.

 

Carry on! This is an interesting discussion .

 

Spreading alternative facts isn't harmless.

 

This is why I categorize my conspiracy theory (or similar) reactions.  YEC/OEC/evolution?  Not an issue (with a few job or places of worship exceptions).  It's pretty akin to what one believes about Atlantis or Nazca lines, etc. There are different theories and a bit depends upon what one believes a Creator did.  

 

Denying that certain vaccines are worthy for the vast majority of people (vax like tetanus or measles or polio)?  That can do real harm to many individuals if/when outbreaks occur.  Denying Sandy Hook or the Holocaust happened when there is tons of real, hard, modern evidence - well... I bristle.  Those make me angry. 

 

If I met Flat Earth, I really probably would laugh.  Ditto if I met folks that think dinosaur bones (or other fossils) are faked.  I'm not sure there's harm, but personally I really question their intelligence - which would also make me question it on anything else TBH.

 

Unfortunately some YEC OEC folks get themselves elected (or appointed depending on how your local system operates) to school boards. Then they make decisions as to what students have access to or are forced to learn. 

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I look at it as a symptom of wider hysteria over science distrust. It is fine for an individual, it can be dangerous and disastrous when it overcomes a large group of people.

 

We need to be careful who gets elected to education positions and many times public policy decisions because the consequences can be severe.

 

I know of a religious group who does not believe in anything but faith healing. They believe it is a sin to see doctors, and have hospitals. God forbid they get themselves elected to the county EMS board in order to dismantle our first responder system!

 

Extremism of belief that can have an effect on the general public's well being is cause for major concern. Usually this stuff can be overlooked so long as it remains fringe, low numbers, etc. When groups get larger and start being able to gain public position then to quote Jim Lovell, "Houston, we have a problem!"

 

So I think that if we can find a way to call this stuff out very strongly while also showing individual compassion and kindness, we should.

 

For the record, I was very kind to the flat earther I met and even invited her to have her kids join 4H - thought our nice secular STEM group would be very good for them - but if she were to show up to a school board meeting to spout off about the physics textbook, then the gloves are coming off. Off in the most professional way I can manage, but off nonetheless.

Edited by FaithManor
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I don't see what is wrong with people having opinions. What does it hurt if they believe in chem-trails? Or a flat Earth? I know lots of people who believe the first moon landing was faked, intelligent people who have done their research and come to this conclusion. Does not make it true, but I would not invalidate something I couldn't "prove". Why is it okay to take everything the government tells you at face value, without researching at all? We believe anything that scientists tell us simply because they're scientists, so it must be true. Why not listen to the other side as well, and then do your own unbiased research and then come to your own conclusions?

 

For the record, I am not saying I believe in any of this. I just think our level of intolerance for people who don't think like we do is out of hand.

 

Carry on! This is an interesting discussion .

 

There's a difference between having an opinion and being wrong. "Vanilla ice cream is the best flavor" is an opinion. "Ice cream and tacos are the same thing" is just wrong. We should not encourage or support people in their ignorance, and being wrong about facts is about ignorance. It's not about IQ or intelligence if the person is able to be educated and learn about the subject and understand that he or she was wrong. I think it starts to be about intelligence, or at least a certain type of intelligence, if a person is confronted with the facts and reasons why the fact is a fact and refuses to accept it.

 

I don't care if people do "research" and come to the conclusion that tacos and ice cream are the same thing. I question their ability to do and understand research. I question their ability to understand the meanings of words. I'm not going to say, "ok, that's your opinion." I might say, "Ok, be wrong if you want to be wrong." 

 

And- if tacos and ice cream are actually the same thing, I don't have a wrong opinion. I am wrong on the facts. Either the moon landing was faked or it was not. There is no room for a difference of opinion here. One group is wrong, the other is correct. 

Edited by Paige
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Spreading alternative facts isn't harmless.

 

 

Unfortunately some YEC OEC folks get themselves elected (or appointed depending on how your local system operates) to school boards. Then they make decisions as to what students have access to or are forced to learn. 

 

Well, I'm weird in that I think educated kids should be exposed to all of the major thoughts out there including YEC and OEC.  At our school, most know there's a controversy over it (regardless which way they think).  I see no harm in their knowing what a good number of folks believe (and why).  We taught our own kids all about it rather than pretending it doesn't exist.  Not once did I ask them what they individually believe (but in our family there is a lot of talk about how it honestly doesn't matter IRL).  Middle son was still able to get the top grade in his Evolution classes at a Top 30 college.  ;)

 

I would have a problem with anyone suggesting public schools (heck, any school) not teaching evolution since it's the dominant thought in the scientific community.  That would fall under the category of "some jobs being excepted" in the "does it really matter" category.

 

There's a difference between having an opinion and being wrong. "Vanilla ice cream is the best flavor" is an opinion. "Ice cream and tacos are the same thing" is just wrong. We should not encourage or support people in their ignorance, and being wrong about facts is about ignorance. It's not about IQ or intelligence if the person is able to be educated and learn about the subject and understand that he or she was wrong. I think it starts to be about intelligence, or at least a certain type of intelligence, if a person is confronted with the facts and reasons why the fact is a fact and refuses to accept it.

 

I don't care if people do "research" and come to the conclusion that tacos and ice cream are the same thing. I question their ability to do and understand research. I question their ability to understand the meanings of words. I'm not going to say, "ok, that's your opinion." I might say, "Ok, be wrong if you want to be wrong." 

 

And- if tacos and ice cream are actually the same thing, I don't have a wrong opinion. I am wrong on the facts. Either the moon landing was faked or it was not. There is no room for a difference of opinion here. One group is wrong, the other is correct. 

 

You do realize you just created a market for a taco/vanilla ice cream mix, right?   :lol:

 

Otherwise, I agree about research with the "known" such as the Holocaust and Sandy Hook, etc.  When it's "a long time ago" and there's no real way of knowing (esp when a Creator is involved), then I'm far more lenient.  This is why I put YEC/OEC in the same category as Atlantis or the Nazca Lines.  They're "fun" to ponder and do some "What ifs" or "How do you explain ____?," but as long as one acknowledges/accepts the "known" like mutations, speciation, everyone sharing the same DNA letters, erosion, and similar there's no harm in whichever way one believes about history.

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The government steals your identity by writing your name in ALL CAPS on your birth certificate. That identity is enslaved and the government uses it to steal money and destroy your human rights. However, you can subvert this by making sure you never write your name in ALL CAPS, because the fictitious person IDNIB is totally different from the real person Idnib.

 

I *just* came across this same nonsense in Germany.

Stupidity knows no borders.

 

Had a rather disconcerting encounter with an old friend who turned out to be in dire need of a tin foil hat. 

Edited by regentrude
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I agree that much of it has nothing to do with intelligence or education level. When there was a lot more study into cults, one of the common threads is that those who fell victim to them were more often bright, well-educated people who were well intended in wanting to make the world a better place. They put very high value in their own intelligence and their ability to make positive contributions. Repeated exposure and slow breaking down of personal boundaries, feeding an individual's drive to be smart and good, can convince people of a lot of things. Some, if not many, people get a lot of pleasure from feeling they're smarter, know things that other's do not, at least in a 'triggers dopamine and such' sort of way. It's pretty easy to feed into that. There have been repeated studies of average people being absolutely convinced of lies, including that they personally have committed horrible crimes, based on charismatic people use certain techniques. The reason it is dangerous comes from that malleability - the same tactics used to convince people of a flat earth are the same used to recruit extremists and cultists. Sometimes such groups use smaller benign conspiracy theories to build up far more dangerous ones. 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting we have blind faith in everything a scientist says or the government - they could use the same tactics. More than one former conspiracy theory about governments has turned out to be true, just not the fantastical control ones, more being involved in another country's coups for profit/ideology or involvement in the destruction of civil rights movements within their own (COINTELPRO among other well known ones are becoming more exposed as things become declassified).

 

Most people will likely not be a threat to others through these beliefs but knowing the red flags of the groups that encourage them I think is vitally important. I think know our own fallibility and the fallibility of others (such as no research is unbiased, everything humans do comes through a biased lens and science, our methodical description of the world, falls under that as well) and how the more dangerous groups recruit and operate is important in preventing the more dangerous sides of this issue coming out. 

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You do realize you just created a market for a taco/vanilla ice cream mix, right?   :lol:

 

Otherwise, I agree about research with the "known" such as the Holocaust and Sandy Hook, etc.  When it's "a long time ago" and there's no real way of knowing (esp when a Creator is involved), then I'm far more lenient.  This is why I put YEC/OEC in the same category as Atlantis or the Nazca Lines.  They're "fun" to ponder and do some "What ifs" or "How do you explain ____?," but as long as one acknowledges/accepts the "known" like mutations, speciation, everyone sharing the same DNA letters, erosion, and similar there's no harm in whichever way one believes about history.

 

As long as the taco shell is made of chocolate or ice cream cones and filled with vanilla ice cream, I'm good. Please no taco flavored ice cream!

 

And I agree, some things are not known conclusively. We don't know exactly where or what Atlantis was or if it was a myth. People may have opinions about that, even though it is a factual issue, because the facts are unknown. Perhaps some opinions will be shown to be wrong and others true later on. And sure, if someone wants to believe tacos are ice cream, it doesn't hurt anyone. There are many facts you can be wrong about without hurting anyone. Being wrong about some things, and acting as if your wrong beliefs are true, and trying to make decisions for yourself and others based on this untruth can hurt people. Sometimes we don't realize the harm of our untrue beliefs until much later- we don't know what we don't know- so, IMO, it's best to aim for truth whenever possible.

 

YE/OE- IMO, those are factual issues as well even if the data to prove one way or the other may seem inconclusive to some. I'm lenient on things like the Nazca lines, Atlantis, etc. Those 2 are factual issues as well even if we don't yet have enough data to know for sure what the facts are. OE/YE, ummm...I'm not so sure. It depends on how far off the YE cliff someone wants to jump. I can understand if people agree that the Earth and Universe appear old and it functions as if it were old, and the dinosaurs appear old, and we base science on it being old because that's how it works, BUT they maintain that it was just created to "look" old. I can't get on board with anyone arguing that it is actually only 6,000 years old and that it actually appears only 6000 years old and science supports that. 

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I agree that much of it has nothing to do with intelligence or education level. When there was a lot more study into cults, one of the common threads is that those who fell victim to them were more often bright, well-educated people who were well intended in wanting to make the world a better place. They put very high value in their own intelligence and their ability to make positive contributions. Repeated exposure and slow breaking down of personal boundaries, feeding an individual's drive to be smart and good, can convince people of a lot of things. Some, if not many, people get a lot of pleasure from feeling they're smarter, know things that other's do not, at least in a 'triggers dopamine and such' sort of way. It's pretty easy to feed into that. There have been repeated studies of average people being absolutely convinced of lies, including that they personally have committed horrible crimes, based on charismatic people use certain techniques. The reason it is dangerous comes from that malleability - the same tactics used to convince people of a flat earth are the same used to recruit extremists and cultists. Sometimes such groups use smaller benign conspiracy theories to build up far more dangerous ones. 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting we have blind faith in everything a scientist says or the government - they could use the same tactics. More than one former conspiracy theory about governments has turned out to be true, just not the fantastical control ones, more being involved in another country's coups for profit/ideology or involvement in the destruction of civil rights movements within their own (COINTELPRO among other well known ones are becoming more exposed as things become declassified).

 

Most people will likely not be a threat to others through these beliefs but knowing the red flags of the groups that encourage them I think is vitally important. I think know our own fallibility and the fallibility of others (such as no research is unbiased, everything humans do comes through a biased lens and science, our methodical description of the world, falls under that as well) and how the more dangerous groups recruit and operate is important in preventing the more dangerous sides of this issue coming out. 

 

A ton of this same stuff (brain cognition stuff) is used in advertising.

 

The best course I ever took in college taught how advertising works.  It's amazing how successful it is TBH.  It's why I want my kids educated in all that is out there - they way they have an edge.  Our minds more easily fool us when we are blindsided with new info and we're figuring out how to sort it out.

 

On that note, middle son and I had a fun discussion about Flat Earth last night.   :lol:  Many chuckles were involved - as there should have been.

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This is really, really important. Vital actually. Please sit down, breathe in and out slowly, think about these words.

 

ELVIS IS DEAD!

 

:D

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This is really, really important. Vital actually. Please sit down, breathe in and out slowly, think about these words.

 

ELVIS IS DEAD!

 

:D

You blasphemer, you.

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This is really, really important. Vital actually. Please sit down, breathe in and out slowly, think about these words.

 

ELVIS IS DEAD!

 

:D

 

You're welcome to your opinion.  :smilielol5:

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own facts. That the earth is round is easily proven. 

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I just remembered that my first "I want to be" as a kid was as a skywriter.  I guess my extreme nearsightedness saved me from joining the dark side.  

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own facts. That the earth is round is easily proven.

And that Elvis is dead too. :D

 

But seriously, feelings are not facts.

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There are certainly actions taken by some conspiracy theorists that can cause harm, like storming into Planet Ping Pong with a gun to investigate pizzagate rumors, or harrassing and threatening family members of Sandy Hook victims.

 

I wish I believed in hell so that I could believe that the people harassing the parents of Sandy Hook victims would, at some point in the future, literally burn for their vile and indefensible actions.  

 

Believing stupid shit is one thing.  Doing cruel shit based on the stupid shit is quite another.  My dad falls into the former category as he's a political conspiracy nut on the left wing end of things.  But he would never, not in a million years say or do something to hurt a mourning family or brandish a gun whilst "investigating" his paranoia.  

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There's a difference between having an opinion and being wrong. "Vanilla ice cream is the best flavor" is an opinion. "Ice cream and tacos are the same thing" is just wrong.

I don't care if people do "research" and come to the conclusion that tacos and ice cream are the same thing.

And- if tacos and ice cream are actually the same thing, I don't have a wrong opinion. I am wrong on the facts. Either the moon landing was faked or it was not. There is no room for a difference of opinion here. One group is wrong, the other is correct. 

 

why do I keep thinking about a local mexican place that served vanilla ice cream in a taco bowl . . . (drizzled with honey, cinnamon, and whipped cream.) . . .

 

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Just shared this with my middle son (he's the recent college grad). He said to let you know he loves that quote! (you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we're going to have to discuss physics...)

 

You have a super intelligent 7 year old.

 

Add me to those who are concerned with just how many conspiracy theorists are out there. I have to wonder if they're gaining speed so to speak.

Is this your son who is the U of R grad? DS7 is currently waffling between U of R and RIT as his top college choices. But then, he always wants to live close to the Museum of Play, so I think that's a factor. ;)

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Is this your son who is the U of R grad? DS7 is currently waffling between U of R and RIT as his top college choices. But then, he always wants to live close to the Museum of Play, so I think that's a factor. ;)

 

Yes, same lad.   :coolgleamA:   He'll be returning to UR as a med school student in August...  :cheers2:

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Ohmygosh, I swear I live among the absolute most paranoid people on the face of the planet, and if I hear one more person start screaming about the "chemtrails" in the sky I'm going to lose my marbles.

 

I've never heard of this before.  Another WTM first for me.

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