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Kinsa

I live in the land of "chemtrails".

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So...these sovereign citizen folks...how do they explain the fact that their legal strategies never achieve what they are supposed to achieve?

Gubmint. That gosh darn gubmint thwarts their every move, LOL, or something like that.

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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

Best logical kid response evah!!!!

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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

Love it!

 

My MIL has been watching cable "history" shows. There was one in particular about WWII that she kept telling me DS should watch (and I kept explaining how we "cut the cable" about 5 years ago). I looked it up, and it's totally made up, no research, fake sets, etc.

I warned DS. And he did try to be nice. And then couldn't take it anymore and told Grandma why none of that could be true.

Of course, she didn't believe him. But he felt better!

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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

 

This, is an amazing response. High five to your 7 year old!

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Those videos are too much. The crazy runs deep, that's for sure. As the judge, can they order a mental evaluation? I mean, it seems obvious to me in each of those cases that those defendants are not sane.

I have several sovereign citizen clients at the county jail. A lot of them end up in a competency restoration (read: mental health) facility. Unfortunately, competency is tied to your ability to participate in your own defense. The bar is low. Many fly right over it.

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I used to laugh at these types, but it is getting too dangerously common, IMO.

My nearest neighbor believes Sandy Hook was a hoax. He would bring us pics of these 'living kids/actors' whenever we invited him for lunch. My husband embarrassed us once when he asked the neighbor if he still listened to that nut on infowars, because he truly didn't get it at the time that the neighbor-man was serious.

Our mailman congratulated me on homeschooling once, saying he would do the same now that the government was forcing that new science at the schools...?

And sadly, we've just this afternoon seen the biggest example of that flat earth/infowar type mentality being forced on the entire world.

Edited by Dotwithaperiod
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Wh...what?! There are truly believe that the earth is Flat?

Genuinely?

 

I just... Can't even...

 

What do they believe about the solar system? Ships? Planes? Satellites?

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My nearest neighbor believes Sandy Hook was a hoax. He would bring us pics of these 'living kids/actors' whenever we invite him for lunch.

 

I read this article about one of the fathers of a child killed at Sandy Hook. He used to be really into conspiracies, but being wrapped up in his own crazy conspiracy mostly knocked the sense back into him, and he's devoted his life since then into taking down the rumormongers, mostly using copyright laws.

 

I say he mostly got the sense knocked back into him because in the article he says that sometimes he almost falls back in. He's arguing with these people who say he's a liar and his child isn't really dead, never really existed - and he starts to wonder if they're right. Not about him, but what if he was the only one?

 

It's like an addiction with some people, it seems.

 

(Edit: And of course, I'm sure he'd rather have his son and still believe all that garbage. I'd rather that had happened too, however harmful I find conspiracy theorists to be to our society.)

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/the-sandy-hook-hoax.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/02/sandy-hook-school-hoax-massacre-conspiracists-victim-father

Edited by Tanaqui
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I'm meeting a lot of homeschoolers in my area that are really into "flat earth." Like, they believe the earth is flat.

My soon to be second grader has already dismissed them as kooks, and told them as much.

 

It terrifies me that people who believe that are homeschooling.

 

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So far the most crazy I have encountered in local homeschooling circles is "the moon landings were faked".

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We know a family who believes in chemtrails. It really is just the tip of the iceberg to all the crazy they believe. I looked up some things they told me on YouTube and fell into the rabbit hole. I just couldnt believe all the nonsense.

 

The family we know that believes all this homeschools. Or, rather, nonschools. I just found out they have decided to send their kids back to school. I'm both seriously relieved and seriously worried. When they tell ds all their conspiracy theories, he is nice about it. I doubt it will be that way in ps.

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How does the flat earth thing work? Clearly none of them have ever travelled to the edge and seen it, right?? Seems to me a long walk could clear this whole thing up!

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I have never heard of any of this stuff before I came here.  You all meet interesting people maybe I just don't get out enough.

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How does the flat earth thing work? Clearly none of them have ever travelled to the edge and seen it, right?? Seems to me a long walk could clear this whole thing up!

They believe that NASA exists as a fake space agency tasked with preventing people from getting to the edges of the earth because, wait for it, someone might climb the ice barrier and fall of the earth!!

 

Not kidding.

 

And all planes are equipped with government instrumentation and software that fools pilots into thinking the world is round, and brain washing makes them see the curvature of the earth.

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I visited the Flat Earth Society's online forum once after seeing someone tweet a link. It's fascinating to see how desperate the hard-core believers are to convince people the globe is a lie--as is all space photography and any other evidence that even a young child would point to to disprove the claim.

Edited by Word Nerd
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They believe that NASA exists as a fake space agency tasked with preventing people from getting to the edges of the earth because, wait for it, someone might climb the ice barrier and fall of the earth!!

 

Not kidding.

 

And all planes are equipped with government instrumentation and software that fools pilots into thinking the world is round, and brain washing makes them see the curvature of the earth.

But, but, but, WHHHHYYY??

 

Why wouldn't the government just say, "hey! World is flat! We've put guards here to protect you! Carry on with your day"???

 

This makes my brain itch.

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How does the flat earth thing work? Clearly none of them have ever travelled to the edge and seen it, right?? Seems to me a long walk could clear this whole thing up!

Because the perimeter of the earth is a big ice wall, and if you get too close "they" will stop you. Oh, and it's so far from the sun and the atmosphere so inhospitable that a human couldn't survive anyway.

Edited by Word Nerd
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I don't really understand or try to understand why or how they believe. I'm afraid my brain might explode if I tried to listen.

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My dh is a police officer and has met a number of"sovereign citizens". It's a bit scary for the police because sovereign citizens have been behind some pretty horrible assassination type killings of police officers. Thankfully, the ones he had met have stuck to claiming that by doing a tricky but of fictional paper work, they are now the true owners off this house or car or whatever.

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But, but, but, WHHHHYYY??

 

Why wouldn't the government just say, "hey! World is flat! We've put guards here to protect you! Carry on with your day"???

 

This makes my brain itch.

 

Part of a plot by the government/agents of Satan to hide the spread lies about the Bible.

 

No, really. That's the reason.

 

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My dh is a police officer and has met a number of"sovereign citizens". It's a bit scary for the police because sovereign citizens have been behind some pretty horrible assassination type killings of police officers. Thankfully, the ones he had met have stuck to claiming that by doing a tricky but of fictional paper work, they are now the true owners off this house or car or whatever.

 

The problem is that the fictitious paperwork they use has been turned into real liens and has really messed up the credit finances of public officials.  Fortunately the courts are starting to take a really strong stand on those behaviors and several states are starting to really crack down on it.  I know there have been arrests/convictions in Florida, Colorado, Georgia, and few other states recently

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I had someone ask me all casually, "Are you into conspiracy theories?" I didn't even know what to say. She mentioned chem trails and a couple other things that slip my mind. Someone else I know in real life thinks the moon landing was fake.

 

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There was a billboard in Reno a few years ago that had a family looking up into the sky with the caption "Stop Spraying Us!" It lasted a few months.

There is one of these painted (graffiti) on a stop sign in a town near me. It says "Look up! STOP spraying us!"

 

Oooookkaaaaayyyyy...

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My being thankful has to do with them not trying to shoot him. We live in one of those states, and I'm very glad for the crackdown. I think the most dangerous cases have been in western states, but that might be a fiction I've chosen to believe for my peace of mind.

 

The problem is that the fictitious paperwork they use has been turned into real liens and has really messed up the credit finances of public officials. Fortunately the courts are starting to take a really strong stand on those behaviors and several states are starting to really crack down on it. I know there have been arrests/convictions in Florida, Colorado, Georgia, and few other states recently

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Wh...what?! There are truly believe that the earth is Flat?

Genuinely?

 

I just... Can't even...

 

What do they believe about the solar system? Ships? Planes? Satellites?

 

 

One problem with people like this is that the selection of facts to refute them is so many, that the mind can shut down picking the right one.  

 

According to my BIL, it is all faked.  He ignores you when you point out the google photos from satellites that are extremely accurate, as in the one that was taken while our roof was being replaced and I could recognize the guys.  Then he points out that they made a mistake by faking a wind blown flag on the moon.   Then he ignores you again when you point out the myth-buster episode that showed that is the stick flexing back and forth from being stuck into the ground (and no air resistance so it went on for a long time).  With the disease one, he ignored me when I pointed out that people would refer to "my first family" or "my second family" because it wasn't that unusual for one's spouse and kids to die of the same disease.   Or the dead homesteaders that DH had found dead in their beds when he was a teenager.  They had died a long time ago from back when that was a regular thing, and it was just so remote that no one else had stumbled upon the cottage.   There was desiccated food so it wasn't starvation.  He ignored that too.   Oh, and the Holocaust was faked.   He ignored me when I pointed out that he could go with his mom to the Jewish assisted living place where she worked as a companion, and someone would be able to explain things to him.   Notice the trend?  He ignored.   Of course, usually I just ignore him.  I don't even headnod or make the "I'm listening" sounds, not even the "I am humoring you that I am listening sounds"    If he were really evil he'd say something that made sense once.  

 

That reminds me of a guy I used to drink beer with, along with a group of other people.   He would spot off such nonsense that I would keep a count, out loud, of every time he said something that I thought was true that wasn't obvious like the "Sky is dark right now".   He would go months without adding one, and we met weekly.  He mostly didn't take himself seriously, and I love listening to a good conspiracy theory, even the contradictory ones.  But a few years after I stopped going, he went worse and was banned.  

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So far the most crazy I have encountered in local homeschooling circles is "the moon landings were faked".

There is (or was) at least one member on WTM forums who believes this.

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My being thankful has to do with them not trying to shoot him. We live in one of those states, and I'm very glad for the crackdown. I think the most dangerous cases have been in western states, but that might be a fiction I've chosen to believe for my peace of mind.

 

 

In general I think you are correct, both about the western states and how most are nonviolent.

 

I think cracking down on the liens is also important as it helps keep some of the gurus from gaining followers.

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The one that gets me is the people who believe that they can file a tax return with all zeros on it and the IRS will just say, oh, THIS guy knows the secret. We won't follow up on this at ALL. :rolleyes:

 

For background on this particular type of nut, Irwin Schiff is the guy to look up.

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I have met a conspiracy nut that believes that JFK and Marilyn Monroe are alive, faked deaths, ran off to a remote island.

 

I have met a married couple who think National Treasure, Solomon's wealth is really hidden in the US and protected by Masons.

 

Holocaust deniers make my blood boil!

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When I lived in Russia I discovered that it was completely normal there to believe the moon landing was fake (kinda understandable given circumstances) and many other conspiracies as well. Where we believe, generally, that those in power might exaggerate our embellish, or even occasionally lie to stay in power, many of the people I spoke with assumed all those in power, all around the world, lied more often than not. You could only trust those you know. Once I understood this, so much made more sense about the culture that surrounded me.

Anyway, all that to say, I would love to see an infographic that showed acceptance of various conspiracy theories around the US and the world. I think it would bring out some interesting trends.

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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

lol oh man what a great thing to say!

 

I need a link to this flat earth stuff. I did encounter a FE-er a while back but I never followed up. I just don't understand how anyone in a first world country could go for that.

 

ETA reading beyond what I quoted, I see that Choc gave a link, thanks. Off to further investigate the nonsense...

Edited by Seasider
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There is (or was) at least one member on WTM forums who believes this.

Yes, and I got warning points for asking her about it! I'm not bitter or anything but that goes on my permanent record!!

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lol oh man what a great thing to say!

 

I need a link to this flat earth stuff. I did encounter a FE-er a while back but I never followed up. I just don't understand how anyone in a first world country could go for that.

Just look up Flat Earth Society. Giving them a lot of incoming traffic from here is probably not a good idea. Edited by Word Nerd
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I have met a conspiracy nut that believes that JFK and Marilyn Monroe are alive, faked deaths, ran off to a remote island.

 

I have met a married couple who think National Treasure, Solomon's wealth is really hidden in the US and protected by Masons.

 

Holocaust deniers make my blood boil!

 

When I encounter Holocaust deniers, Truthers, and those who think Sandy Hook was a false flag...well, someone usually needs to hold my flip flops and earrings for me.

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Yes, and I got warning points for asking her about it! I'm not bitter or anything but that goes on my permanent record!!

I've often wondered how one gets warning points...

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Activated charcoal - Binds to heavy metals for safe removal from the body.

 

 

 

I have a lot of silver fillings in my teeth that were put there in the 1960s when it was standard practice. My dentist has been gradually replacing them with currently used material. When we first discussed doing this I asked, "But if all my silver fillings are gone, how will the aliens be able to contact me?" We laughed, but  later I thought that with the amount of crazy around these days what if she thought I was serious?  :lol:

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I'm meeting a lot of homeschoolers in my area that are really into "flat earth." Like, they believe the earth is flat.

My soon to be second grader has already dismissed them as kooks, and told them as much.

 

I've always said people need to travel more - esp some people.  Go look for those ice walls on the four sides... esp the eastern and western sides.

 

So far the most crazy I have encountered in local homeschooling circles is "the moon landings were faked".

 

This is a common belief by some in ps too.  There's even one science teacher (a Physics teacher) who teaches it to his class - shows a documentary video about it.  Lest one start going off on those "conservative Christians!!!," he's as atheist as they make them.

 

We know a family who believes in chemtrails. It really is just the tip of the iceberg to all the crazy they believe. I looked up some things they told me on YouTube and fell into the rabbit hole. I just couldnt believe all the nonsense.

 

The family we know that believes all this homeschools. Or, rather, nonschools. I just found out they have decided to send their kids back to school. I'm both seriously relieved and seriously worried. When they tell ds all their conspiracy theories, he is nice about it. I doubt it will be that way in ps.

 

Don't get your hopes up.  We combat these things (often unsuccessfully) all the time in ps.

 

To many who believe these things, there's more truth in what one hears in the grocery store checkout line than in all the scientific, geologic, or video data/evidence anyone can produce.

 

Like others, I bristle at the super important ones - Holocaust or Sandy Hook deniers, etc. I try to educate about chemtrails, vaccines, the moon landing, or various diet fads. I haven't heard the flat earth one.  If I did, it would be tough to suppress laughter.

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I have met a conspiracy nut that believes that JFK and Marilyn Monroe are alive, faked deaths, ran off to a remote island.

 

Happy 100th birthday, Jack! Still lookin' good!
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The homeschool community here seems to attract the sovereign grace flat earthers.

My seven year old, after hearing some of them talk, whispered to me, "I'm trying to be nice because I think they're crazy and you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we are going to have to discuss physics."

 

Just shared this with my middle son (he's the recent college grad).  He said to let you know he loves that quote!  (you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we're going to have to discuss physics...)

 

You have a super intelligent 7 year old.

 

Add me to those who are concerned with just how many conspiracy theorists are out there.  I have to wonder if they're gaining speed so to speak.

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A friend of mine once woke up to her entire backyard covered in spider webs, and she saw tiny spiders crawling on the patio furniture (that had webs all over). She called a pest control guy out. The guy didn't see any spiders (her photos that she posted on FB had spiders in it - they were easy to see). He then said he thought it was chemtrails that had landed on her yard! In reality, it was a giant spider hatching. But the fact that the pest control guy was spreading conspiracy theories instead of treating the obvious pest problem... I suggested she not use that pest control company again. :p

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I've always said people need to travel more - esp some people. Go look for those ice walls on the four sides... esp the eastern and western sides.

 

 

This is a common belief by some in ps too. There's even one science teacher (a Physics teacher) who teaches it to his class - shows a documentary video about it. Lest one start going off on those "conservative Christians!!!," he's as atheist as they make them.

 

 

Don't get your hopes up. We combat these things (often unsuccessfully) all the time in ps.

 

To many who believe these things, there's more truth in what one hears in the grocery store checkout line than in all the scientific, geologic, or video data/evidence anyone can produce.

 

Like others, I bristle at the super important ones - Holocaust or Sandy Hook deniers, etc. I try to educate about chemtrails, vaccines, the moon landing, or various diet fads. I haven't heard the flat earth one. If I did, it would be tough to suppress laughter.

I'm not. When we have tried to discuss theories they have brought up, they double down. I don't think things will change but at least in ps they will exposed to actual science on the regular. That's a start.

 

That's why I am relieved. They will finally get the education they have been denied. And my hopes are that, as adults, they will have options. They didnt have that before.

 

But, I'm worried. I've known these kids most of their lives. I dont want to go into too many details but these kids have been seriously disillusioned and they are about to get a big dose of reality. I'm scared it might be too much for them.

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Just shared this with my middle son (he's the recent college grad). He said to let you know he loves that quote! (you should be nice to crazy people, but at some point we're going to have to discuss physics...)

 

You have a super intelligent 7 year old.

 

Add me to those who are concerned with just how many conspiracy theorists are out there. I have to wonder if they're gaining speed so to speak.

The internet makes it easy for any idea to spread.

 

It also makes It easy for echo chambers to form, reinforcing those ideas.

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I have a lot of silver fillings in my teeth that were put there in the 1960s when it was standard practice. My dentist has been gradually replacing them with currently used material. When we first discussed doing this I asked, "But if all my silver fillings are gone, how will the aliens be able to contact me?" We laughed, but  later I thought that with the amount of crazy around these days what if she thought I was serious?  :lol:

 

don't laugh . . . several years ago dh had a client who was commenting on the horrible state of the world.  he asked her where she was planning on going to escape it. . . . . "another planet".  she. was. serious!  

 

and the earth IS flat.  how can you say it's not?   we're a flat disc balanced on the backs of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle.

 

smh . . . .

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oh- I did see an explanation for proof the world is round because if it was flat - cats would have pushed everything off by now.

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This is a common belief by some in ps too.  There's even one science teacher (a Physics teacher) who teaches it to his class - shows a documentary video about it.  Lest one start going off on those "conservative Christians!!!," he's as atheist as they make them.

 

 

 

Not to throw a live grenade into this discussion but I totally thought that the reason I met so many anti-science people was because I hung out with mostly Christians. I am a Christian myself and live in a very conservative area, where the prevailing belief is YEC. Then I joined a secular group and the atheists are just as bad! I think it's just poor science education in this country and that crosses all political and religious boundaries. How unifying... I guess. ;)

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Not to throw a live grenade into this discussion but I totally thought that the reason I met so many anti-science people was because I hung out with mostly Christians. I am a Christian myself and live in a very conservative area, where the prevailing belief is YEC. Then I joined a secular group and the atheists are just as bad! I think it's just poor science education in this country and that crosses all political and religious boundaries. How unifying... I guess. ;)

 

So many people get worked up about YEC/OEC/evolution - yet that one is pretty much history and meaningless except in a historical context TBH.  I don't care which way anyone believes about that as long as they believe what we see happening now (viruses mutating,  new species being developed, erosion issues, climate issues, etc).  I've yet to come across anyone who doesn't believe in what we see now.  I heard about one lad who claimed dinosaur bones were fake, but he was pulled from school before I could ask him more (family moved).  We (science teachers) have no idea if he was saying that to get attention (happened with that lad) or if he really thought that way.

 

If someone thinks the earth is flat or the Holocaust didn't happen, etc, then they have definite information processing issues.  Ditto anyone who thinks dino bones aren't real if those folks are out there.  How long ago they died - that's not nearly as pressing (or world changing) of an issue IME.  It could be if one is into dino research (on either side), of course, but for everyday life or decisions?  Not an issue.

 

When we get students in who want to debate one side or the other, that's possible in English class (in an "opposing views" paper they do), but in science we simply say something to the effect of, "This is what the majority of the science world believes today.  You can choose not to believe it, but you should at least know about it as part of your education so yes, it's part of our curriculum."  It's such a minor part of a Bio course TBH.  I can't recall a single complaint once kids have that explanation.  We don't do any sort of survey about what kids believe.

 

Still, lest anyone think it's not in the public schools among students...surprise!  It comes up every year where I work.

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You know what is really amazing about these beliefs is the level of organization, efficiency, and effective information control they attribute to our government :D

 

I've been a government employee, I've got nothing against government employees or organizations, but believe me--we just aren't THAT good.

Edited by maize
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