ELTL AND FLL?

[blondeviolin]

My #3 (8 in July, 3rd grade in the fall) has been through all of FLL 1 and 2 and still struggles to remember her parts of speech. She can point out the parts if I remind her what they do or start her with the definition: "Can you find the verb? A verb is a word that does..." or whatever. It just seems like the labels (noun, verb, pronoun) are gibberish she can't remember. She can tell me the function of the word, though. She's working through MCT Island with me this summer.

 

FWIW, she also struggles holding a pencil, penmanship, and letter formation/sizing. Dysgraphia is not off the table.

 

I know FLL will cycle back in level 3 and I really love, love FLL so I want her to do that.

 

However, I think the copywork/dictation in WWE 2 will be too much for her hand and I don't know if I can stomach going back to WWE 1. I could break up the dictation and copywork... She does get narration practice through history and science.

 

So this year I'm thinking I will move her to working with ETLT (level 2 maybe? So it's easier and a review... though I'm not opposed to 3). If she did ELTL 2, would it be too heavy on grammar with FLL 3? I guess I could drop FLL for this year and use ELTL and pick FLL next year when she's had more time to mature.

[Susie in MS]

I have not used ELTL levels 2 or 3 , but I can say that based on Level 4 (where my 11 dd is at) the grammar is not heavy in quantity (3-4 sentences). Combining the two may not contain too many sentences. However the the level of learning grammar in ELTL 4 is a bit much for her, so we work on it together. The lower levels are simpler though. I have no experience with FLL to guess if there would be too much when combining the two. 

 

The dictation and copywork in Level 4 is a pretty good amount. I don't know how it compares with FLL. I would look over the samples well to get a feel of it. Hoping someone else who has done the lower levels will chime in. I feel ELTL is excellent. 

 

 I mainly wanted to comment on your 8yo not remembering the parts of speech perfectly. I would venture to guess that this is probably pretty common among many children that age. I know some just seem to get it  all right off at young ages, but I don't think that is as common as it seems on this forum. Some people don't even start grammar till a child is in 4th grade, because they can then "get" in a few weeks/months what took years at an earlier age. All that to say, other than her motor skills, I don't think you have much to worry about. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Susie in MS

[knitgrl]

Our experience with WWE and ELTL has been this: dd is resistant to a lot of writing. She got so that she would complain and groan about WWE, and we only managed to get through the first one. She asks to do English now with ELTL, and I think it is partly because the copywork is written directly above where she writes, in the size and style script she will be writing in, instead of WWE where the whole selection is up at the top of the page in 14pt font.

[Davina]

We have used WWE levels 1-3 and FLL levels 1-4 with my eldest daughter. These were fine for her, but she had no trouble with writing. We switched over to ELTL levels 4 & 5 for her 5th & 6th grade years. So we are using it a year behind and I think it is plenty of grammar through diagramming, copywork, and dictation. I am very pleased with the foundation she has. In fact, we are going to be forgoing formal grammar next year to concentrate on expository writing.

 

The younger daughter did/does struggle with the physical act of writing. She used WWE levels 1-2, but I felt like level 3 was too much for her. I felt the same with the FLL4 so we only did about half of it.

We switched to ELTL level 3 for 4th grade. It was great. I modified copywork according to what we needed for that specific day. We have not done level 2 so I am no help there. But I know if you stay with ELTL there is no reason to add FLL. ELTL reminds you to do memory work in every lesson. There is an appendix in the back of the book that gives you a list of definitions for grammar terms. I bought both the girls spiral bound note cards and we wrote the terms and definitions on these flashcard style. This has really helped with memorizing terms if that is what you are after. As far as applying that knowledge in a sentence, I have found there is no substitute for personal instruction. I talked her through every sentence we diagrammed in the level 3 book. This year for level 4 she talked me through every sentence.

 

I hope this helps. We are big fans of ELTL here. It is very thorough. There is no need to add anything to it even if you are using it a year behind.

 

And like the PP, I want to add, please do not worry about memorizing these things. It will come in time. You're doing great!

Edited May 23, 2017 by Davina

[blondeviolin]

I'm not overly worried about her getting grammar. I just know she's not in a place that my other two were with starting FLL 3. And I love FLL 3 so I don't want to not do it.

 

My other kids did TC in conjunction with FLL; which was a lot of grammar and overkill for most, they had no problem with it. The copywork in TC is not gonna work for her. I could have her not do the copywork in TC and just parse the sentences...but I feel she'd be best waiting until next year. I feel like FLL is gentle enough that she'd be fine with it. In fact, I believe diagramming would help her understand parts of speech even more because she is a very visual learner.

 

So my options for her would be: ELTL 2 with FLL 3, FLL 3 with another writing program and reading good lit, ELTL 3 and do FLL 3 and TC next year.... I still want her to do grammar, but she needs some spiraling back. I know FLL will do that and she woups thrive with the scaffolding.

Edited May 23, 2017 by blondeviolin