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heartlikealion

Young boy kidnapped and found dead :(

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Driving actually is a necessity in many places.  We live 7 miles outside town.  There is public transportation in town, but none out here.  And nobody delivers out here either.  And even if there was public transportation, I can't imagine trying to, say, get groceries (even a couple of bags worth) by riding on a bus with 5 children.  Public transportation everywhere or even available simply isn't feasible in more rural or sparsely populated areas.

 

There is nothing stopping everybody here from moving to a city. I mean, that's the argument we're having about this, right? That if this mother had really loved her child, she would've made different choices? Well, I can make that argument too. If having a child means sacrificing for that child, then you move. You do whatever it takes to keep your kid safe at all times, even if that means uprooting yourself and moving to a place with great public transportation, or giving up on the outside world altogether and having everything delivered. Because none of this is a ridiculous sentiment at all.

 

(And many people, including myself at times, get groceries on a bus or train every single week. It's actually easier with more children, because each walking child can carry a backpack, and you can shove groceries under a stroller seat.)

 

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There is nothing stopping everybody here from moving to a city. I mean, that's the argument we're having about this, right? That if this mother had really loved her child, she would've made different choices? Well, I can make that argument too. If having a child means sacrificing for that child, then you move. You do whatever it takes to keep your kid safe at all times, even if that means uprooting yourself and moving to a place with great public transportation, or giving up on the outside world altogether and having everything delivered. Because none of this is a ridiculous sentiment at all.

 

(And many people, including myself at times, get groceries on a bus or train every single week. It's actually easier with more children, because each walking child can carry a backpack, and you can shove groceries under a stroller seat.)

 

 

I don't recall being a part of that argument myself, so I'm not sure if you're trying to criticize me with your post or not.  I suspect there are inherent dangers in large city living that aren't present in more rural living, but I'm not really interested in looking for statistics to support my suspicion.  And are people really arguing that if the mom LOVED her kid she would have made different choices?  I think people are saying that it would have been good sense to make a different choice given the area they lived in, but I'd bet every one of us has made at least one less-than-optimal parenting choice at some point.

 

I do think you're making assumptions that every other family can function the same way yours can.  For my family, a combination of my own health issue, fatigue, and brain fog, and kids with ADHD and sensory issues would make a trip like that virtually impossible, particularly 2-3 years ago when I had only young kids and severe fatigue all the time.

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Yep, that would work for some cars.

 

My current car does not allow me to lock my key in the car - which is good for avoiding having to call for roadside assistance, but not so good if you intend to lock the car and leave it running.

I'm having trouble visualizing. So you literally cannot place a key in the exterior door lock if the engine is running?

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I'm having trouble visualizing. So you literally cannot place a key in the exterior door lock if the engine is running?

I had a car that wouldn't lock if the car was running. The locks wouldn't engage.

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This is horrible skepticism, but after the Susan Smith thing I generally suspect the parents are in on it until they are absolutely cleared. The people you know are just statistically more dangerous than any strangers.

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One article said she reported the stolen car to a deputy on duty. Now, if she had seen him before entering the store and then located him upon leaving it makes more sense to me she felt a sense of safety at that location. He told her he couldn't go chasing after the car because he had to follow protocol. I have actually shopped in Jackson at night by myself before (because I had to be somewhere that night and it was a pit stop) and felt safe because of the patrolling cop car in the parking lot. Plus I think the parking lot was well lit. I can see how knowing law enforcement is around might make you less panicked about an unlocked car. But I don't know if she realized he was there before she went inside or just after.

 

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2017/05/19/what-happened-kingston-frazier/332262001/

Edited by heartlikealion

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The article is a good example of why people need to avoid the rush to conspiracy theories on social media.

 

That article is all over the place Lol. They don't even have a proper timeline. But it does seem clear to me that the child was shot by someone else.

 

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Driving is a necessity worth the risk. Leaving a 6yo in a car is not a necessity. Lots of bad things happen in parking lots. Cars get hit or broken into all the time. Kids do stupid stuff

 

I'm a pretty laid back parent but it would never cross my mind to leave a 6yo alone in a car. My mind is blown that people are arguing that that is totally fine.

 

I never argue that it's fine.  It is something that I do.

I almost started to defend the circumstances under which I do, but stopped myself. I'm very comfortable with my decision making skills and with the overwhelming majority of other parents' abilities to use their own.

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I'm having trouble visualizing. So you literally cannot place a key in the exterior door lock if the engine is running?

If you did this in my Prius it would beep and screetch. It would let you do it, but I was never 100% sure that someone who knew what they were doing couldn't use the automatic door to just open the car since the key was inside. I LOVED leaving my dd in the car with it running last year when she was 16 so I could keep the air conditioner running. Redding can get to 120 on a hot summer day and to have her in the car keeping it cool was quite nice while I was shopping. Especially when I was buying produce for the restaurant and needed to keep it cool on the drive home. I did worry a little about someone trying to steal the car while she was in it even though she was keeping it locked because it was running. She did have a cell phone to text me in the store if someone was trying, though and it is so nice to get in the air conditioned car that I weighed the risk and just did it several times. 

 

My Prius has been totaled, so that's not an issue. I will never get another automatic key. The are really inconvenient. 

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Driving is a necessity worth the risk. Leaving a 6yo in a car is not a necessity. Lots of bad things happen in parking lots. Cars get hit or broken into all the time. Kids do stupid stuff

 

I'm a pretty laid back parent but it would never cross my mind to leave a 6yo alone in a car. My mind is blown that people are arguing that that is totally fine.

 

It's not even legal where I live. This isn't even some one-off, liberal state paranoia. LOTS of places make this illegal. This is not Mom Wars judginess in play. This is just pointing out a behavior that would literally be 'criminal' where a lot of us live and will very likely be criminal in the near future in other states.

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It's not even legal where I live. This isn't even some one-off, liberal state paranoia. LOTS of places make this illegal. This is not Mom Wars judginess in play. This is just pointing out a behavior that would literally be 'criminal' where a lot of us live and will very likely be criminal in the near future in other states.

 

With the rise of self-driving cars, driving will likely be illegal in the near future. Does that make all of you bad parents right now? (I'd be plenty happy to see it be made illegal except in super rural areas right now. Everybody who drives ends up driving places where they could've walked, biked, or simply not gone to.

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With the rise of self-driving cars, driving will likely be illegal in the near future. Does that make all of you bad parents right now? (I'd be plenty happy to see it be made illegal except in super rural areas right now. Everybody who drives ends up driving places where they could've walked, biked, or simply not gone to.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with parenting young children.

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I don't know about the specifics in this case, but I've left my 4 year old on the car with her sleeping little brothers for truly quick errands on a cool day. She sat in the front seat and was told to lay on the horn if anyone came near (private drive, not a parking lot). It was the right decision given all factors. (This kid could be in the running for most responsible four year old). I can totally see allowing a sick 6 year old to stay in the car. I wouldn't ever leave it running unless the kid was old enough to drive, but I don't know the factors in the mom's decision to do so.

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It's not even legal where I live. This isn't even some one-off, liberal state paranoia. LOTS of places make this illegal. This is not Mom Wars judginess in play. This is just pointing out a behavior that would literally be 'criminal' where a lot of us live and will very likely be criminal in the near future in other states.

 

Actually, there aren't a whole lot of states where it's illegal to leave a 6 yr old in a car alone.  There may be more city/local ordinances and such, but a very large number of states DON'T have laws about it. 

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Actually, there aren't a whole lot of states where it's illegal to leave a 6 yr old in a car alone.  There may be more city/local ordinances and such, but a very large number of states DON'T have laws about it. 

 

I thought she meant illegal to leave a car running with a kid in it. I'm not really sure what the specific law is, but yeah maybe it was just leaving the child in it, period she was referencing.

 

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I thought she meant illegal to leave a car running with a kid in it. I'm not really sure what the specific law is, but yeah maybe it was just leaving the child in it, period she was referencing.

 

In many states it is illegal to leave a car running, period. They are too easy of a target and police get tired of looking for stolen cars.

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I'm glad I have older kids to put in the front seat now, not for actual safety, but for nosey people.

I think I've posted here before about how I parked in the Home Depot lot with my younger ones (but old enough to unbuckle and open doors) in the back of the van while I walked over to peek at the shed display. An older couple pressed their faces to the window and started asking my kids where their mommy was. Of course I ran back, being close enough to see and hear the whOle thing.

I'm more afraid of interference than "bad guys".

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