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heartlikealion

Young boy kidnapped and found dead :(

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We got an amber alert around 5am. This child went missing from a Kroger parking lot in our state. I didn't realize that particular Kroger was 24hrs. It sounds like the parent left him in the car because someone stole the car with him in it. I don't know all the details. Just a little while ago we got news that he was found dead in the back of the car due to a gunshot wound. Someone on my FB said they have arrested someone in connection to it, but I haven't read more about that yet. So awful :( He was only six.

 

I don't know if this was someone that knew the boy or not. I don't know if they wanted the child or the vehicle or what.

 

What's wrong with people? :(

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My first thought was that he was taken for human trafficking. I don't really know. I don't really understand. Nothing makes sense.

 

Clicking the link shows that it's believed that 2 people are involved so my first thought is that these guys jumped in the car to steal the car (more likely than human trafficking I think)  and then discovered the kid in the car as they were driving away.  Then, they got into an argument about what to do about the kid, one guy flips out and fires, they both panic and take off.  The 2 suspects are only 18 which I don't say as some sort of excuse or explanation, rather that being 18 means they likely don't have the forethought for some sort of human trafficking process.  Human trafficking requires much more organization than dealing with a stolen car.  JMO, and ultimately, it doesn't really matter.  They are terrible, awful people. 

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My first thought was that he was taken for human trafficking. I don't really know. I don't really understand. Nothing makes sense.

My first thought was that the guys were stealing the car with no intention of kidnapping, got into a gang fight or drive by shooting where the child was unfortunately shot so the car was abandoned in a panic.

 

Whatever the actual circumstances, it is still an awful tragedy.

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Clicking the link shows that it's believed that 2 people are involved so my first thought is that these guys jumped in the car to steal the car (more likely than human trafficking I think)  and then discovered the kid in the car as they were driving away.  Then, they got into an argument about what to do about the kid, one guy flips out and fires, they both panic and take off.  The 2 suspects are only 18 which I don't say as some sort of excuse or explanation, rather that being 18 means they likely don't have the forethought for some sort of human trafficking process.  Human trafficking requires much more organization than dealing with a stolen car.  JMO, and ultimately, it doesn't really matter.  They are terrible, awful people. 

 

My thought was the car was running with the kid in it so they would notice that there was a kid in it because who leaves an empty car running at 1am but like I said nothing really makes sense to me.

 

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I have lots of thoughts, but I will let the cops figure this out.

 

Human trafficking isn't done that way though.  I think it is more likely that the kid was a casualty of a bungled car theft, possibly involving drug use.  Another possibility being that the kid was targeted as a gang type crime.

 

So sad, regardless of who and why.

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My first thought is, "Why did the parent/guardian leave their child in the car at that time of night?" Seriously.

Yes, this is a tragedy. It COULD HAVE been prevented.

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My first thought is, "Why did the parent/guardian leave their child in the car at that time of night?" Seriously.

Yes, this is a tragedy. It COULD HAVE been prevented.

It could have easily been prevented if two men didn't decide to commit multiple criminal acts.

 

Squawking about a parent making a marginal parenting decision doesn't help anyone.

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My first thought is, "Why did the parent/guardian leave their child in the car at that time of night?" Seriously.

Yes, this is a tragedy. It COULD HAVE been prevented.

I can easily think of how it could happen. The mom thought the boy was tired, or he was already sleeping in the back seat (likely, given that it was 1am). Mom thought she just needed a couple items in the store, just let the boy sleep. It's too hot to not run the AC, so keep the car running. Boy will stay cool and sleeping, and Mom will only be a few minutes. Chances of anything happening are slim.

 

Sorry, but the blame squarely lies on the carjackers, NOT the mom.

Edited by Kinsa

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I can easily think of how it could happen. The mom thought the boy was tired, or he was already sleeping in the back seat (likely, given that it was 1am). Mom thought she just needed a couple items in the store, just let the boy sleep. It's too hot to not run the AC, so keep the car running. Boy will stay cool and sleeping, and Mom will only be a few minutes. Chances of anything happening are slim.

 

Sorry, but the blame squarely lies inn the carjackers, NOT the mom.

Not blame but, damn, parenting 101--never leave a kid in a car, especially a running, unlocked one!! In many towns it is illegal to leave a car idling because people will steal it!

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I can easily think of how it could happen. The mom thought the boy was tired, or he was already sleeping in the back seat (likely, given that it was 1am). Mom thought she just needed a couple items in the store, just let the boy sleep. It's too hot to not run the AC, so keep the car running. Boy will stay cool and sleeping, and Mom will only be a few minutes. Chances of anything happening are slim.

 

Sorry, but the blame squarely lies on the carjackers, NOT the mom.

 

I have done the same and will probably continue to do so if I feel it is safe.  I don't blame the mom either.

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I do find it odd that the car was left running and unlocked.  Not odd that the kid was left in there sleeping for a short time period.

 

It did cross my mind that maybe there was some sort of conspiracy where the person driving with the kid "handed him off" - some act against the other parent or to get drug money - stranger things have happened.  I mean, how convenient that this happened just as the bad guys' car was driving by.  But the cops will be able to figure it out.

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I can easily think of how it could happen. The mom thought the boy was tired, or he was already sleeping in the back seat (likely, given that it was 1am). Mom thought she just needed a couple items in the store, just let the boy sleep. It's too hot to not run the AC, so keep the car running. Boy will stay cool and sleeping, and Mom will only be a few minutes. Chances of anything happening are slim.

 

Sorry, but the blame squarely lies on the carjackers, NOT the mom.

+1

One of the relatives interviewed said something about the mom picking up medicine for her kids, which would easily explain why she left him in the car, especially at that time of night.

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Oh I don't KNOW if it was running or unlocked. I am just speculating as to how that particular car was chosen if it was auto theft. It could seem like an easy target if the keys were in the ignition, for example. But I didn't actually read/hear that it was running. I just know the boy was there and it was 1am.

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I do find it odd that the car was left running and unlocked. Not odd that the kid was left in there sleeping for a short time period.

 

It did cross my mind that maybe there was some sort of conspiracy where the person driving with the kid "handed him off" - some act against the other parent or to get drug money - stranger things have happened. I mean, how convenient that this happened just as the bad guys' car was driving by. But the cops will be able to figure it out.

What? How do you take a fairly simple crime (auto theft) and turn it into an elaborate conspiracy? Why would they hand off a 6yo to be shot ians left in a stolen car (an amazingly high profile crime)?

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Ok I see that it was running. I am having trouble keeping up with the details, sorry.

 

Jackson is not a safe area, I don't like to go there at night with kids, but that's one of the only Krogers that is 24 hours. There are 24 hour Walmarts as well, but if the family lived in/near Jackson and needed something that time of night the choices are limited. I had similar thoughts cross my mind... why did the child get left in the car... but I did the same thing briefly when ds had flu and I ran into walmart (daytime but still).

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My first thought was that he was taken for human trafficking. I don't really know. I don't really understand. Nothing makes sense.

Human traffickers in the United States doesn't operate the way you seem to imagine.

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Human traffickers in the United States doesn't operate the way you seem to imagine.

 

We've had this conversation before. I know that you don't think anything happens the way I describe and I still don't know why two men killed two nuns I knew last year. Sometimes we don't have all the answers.

 

Edited by heartlikealion

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What? How do you take a fairly simple crime (auto theft) and turn it into an elaborate conspiracy? Why would they hand off a 6yo to be shot ians left in a stolen car (an amazingly high profile crime)?

 

I would not assume the original plan was to have the child shot - unless this was a gang thing or something.  Doubtful if that was the child's mother driving him.

 

I mean, I'm not "assuming" anything, just saying there are multiple possible explanations, and that child trafficking by strangers isn't the first thing that comes to my mind.  I said before that it was most likely a bungled auto theft.

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I agree that it was most likely a botched auto theft situation. I also was just stating thoughts that crossed my mind as Jackson is known as a hub for human trafficking. I think about these things all the time when I go to that city.

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We've had this conversation before. I know that you don't think anything happens the way I describe and I still don't know why two men killed two nuns from my parish last year. Sometimes we don't have all the answers.

 

We do have crime statistics. Young children in the United States are not abducted from their parents as part of human trafficking. They just aren't. When you hear about "children" being trafficked they are usually referring to teenage girls. Most often they are runaways or were groomed by someone older they trusted.

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I would not assume the original plan was to have the child shot - unless this was a gang thing or something. Doubtful if that was the child's mother driving him.

 

I mean, I'm not "assuming" anything, just saying there are multiple possible explanations, and that child trafficking by strangers isn't the first thing that comes to my mind. I said before that it was most likely a bungled auto theft.

There is exactly one explanation here.

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We do have crime statistics. Young children in the United States are not abducted from their parents as part of human trafficking. They just aren't. When you hear about "children" being trafficked they are usually referring to teenage girls. Most often they are runaways or were groomed by someone older they trusted.

 

Yeah that makes sense. I'm just saying people are crazy and I don't assume that just because a situation doesn't fall in line with a statistic that it can't happen. That's all.

 

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I used to work overnights at CVS. You would not believe how many people leave their car running when they go into the store for a "quick" trip. That's not unusual to me at all. I would not do it but people do it all the time.

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We do have crime statistics. Young children in the United States are not abducted from their parents as part of human trafficking. They just aren't. When you hear about "children" being trafficked they are usually referring to teenage girls. Most often they are runaways or were groomed by someone older they trusted.

 

http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/20631372/human-trafficking-explored-in-the-state-of-mississippi

 

This article does list children and teens separately, though. I don't know the exact figures for each.

 

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http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/20631372/human-trafficking-explored-in-the-state-of-mississippi

 

This article does list children and teens separately, though. I don't know the exact figures for each.

 

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/31/kidnapping-stats

 

According to an estimate from the federal Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP), there were just 105 "stereotypical kidnappings" in America between late 2010 and late 2011, the last period for which we have data. (For reference, there were about 73.9 million children in America that year.) Just 65 of these kidnappings were committed by strangers. Less than half involved the abduction of a child under age 12. Only 14 percent of cases were still open after one week, and 92 percent of victims were recovered or returned alive.

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This is just heartbreaking. I just cannot wrap my head around the pain this little buddy's family must be experiencing. It does sound like a car theft gone wrong. My mom always left me in the car as a kid, sent me into the store by myself to buy milk starting at 7yo and I walked to the corner store often from 8 yo on as did most of my friends. I would never call her decision of bad one. It is not the parent ' s fault. It is the fault of these young men who clearly have no regard for human life. A child is precious. Even animals seem to recognize that. It is a horrendous person who purposefully harms a child.

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I can easily think of how it could happen. The mom thought the boy was tired, or he was already sleeping in the back seat (likely, given that it was 1am). Mom thought she just needed a couple items in the store, just let the boy sleep. It's too hot to not run the AC, so keep the car running.

 

 

How would it be "too hot" to not run the AC at 1am? I mean, sure, it might still be like 100F outside, but the kid in the car isn't going to overheat from the sun in 5 min, or even in 5 hours or w/e - there's no reason to not turn off the car (incl. AC) for the 5 min you'd be in the store. 

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How would it be "too hot" to not run the AC at 1am? I mean, sure, it might still be like 100F outside, but the kid in the car isn't going to overheat from the sun in 5 min, or even in 5 hours or w/e - there's no reason to not turn off the car (incl. AC) for the 5 min you'd be in the store. 

 

It gets hot and humid in Mississippi but they probably didn't need the a/c at 1am unless the car was already hot. When people say they are going to be just 5 minutes I assume that's easily longer by the time they get what they need and/or wait in line and walk back to the car. Children do overheat faster than others so yes a young child could overheat in way less time than 5 hours I'm sure but at that time of night probably not such a risk.

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We do have crime statistics. Young children in the United States are not abducted from their parents as part of human trafficking. They just aren't. When you hear about "children" being trafficked they are usually referring to teenage girls. Most often they are runaways or were groomed by someone older they trusted.

Foster situations too :(

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http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/31/kidnapping-stats

 

According to an estimate from the federal Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP), there were just 105 "stereotypical kidnappings" in America between late 2010 and late 2011, the last period for which we have data. (For reference, there were about 73.9 million children in America that year.) Just 65 of these kidnappings were committed by strangers. Less than half involved the abduction of a child under age 12. Only 14 percent of cases were still open after one week, and 92 percent of victims were recovered or returned alive.

 

Yes but elementary decision theory dictates that the magnitude of a risk has to be weighed against the severity of the outcome you're risking. One in a million or even one in ten million is not that small a chance when you consider what it's a chance of. A week in the hands of one of these people is a long time; being quickly shot to death is, God help us, one of the least bad things that can happen to a child in these situations. And I don't think it would be very easy to quantify to what extent the number of these incidents is kept down by parental and societal preventive measures, so as an argument against watching one's kids (which Reason pushes hard, probably not unrelated to their veneration of Murray Rothbard who wrote that children are property and are owed no duty of care), it falls flat for me.

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There's a case like this every year, somebody steals a car and there's a kid in the backseat. This is the very first time I've heard of them going on to commit murder, though. Not just monstrous, but stupid! Auto theft is a problem, but murder of a child? That's gonna send you no place good. How unfortunate for the family.

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I'll disagree. I see absolutely nothing wrong with leaving a 6 yr old in an air conditioned car while mom runs in to grab medications. A 6 yr old is not an infant that is completely helpless. Nor is a 6 yr old likely to act like a toddler and try to drive the car away. I don't have a problem with it at 1pm or 1am. I would have done it and locked the door behind me with instruction to the child to unlock for me when I come to the window. Because the general truth is that anything going wrong would be very unlikely and rare.

 

Even with safety precautions, the kid was more likely to drown in the family pool with mom within 10 feet of sight.

 

Anything that happened was the fault of awful horrid people who killed that precious child.

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How would it be "too hot" to not run the AC at 1am? I mean, sure, it might still be like 100F outside, but the kid in the car isn't going to overheat from the sun in 5 min, or even in 5 hours or w/e - there's no reason to not turn off the car (incl. AC) for the 5 min you'd be in the store.

If it's hot outside, the inside of a car can get 10-20' hotter in less than 5 minutes. I wouldn't want to sit in that and I wouldn't make my kid either, especially if the child is already sick and feverish. It was likely concern for making a sick child as comfortable as possible that would lead me to let them stay in the car to begin with.

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If it's hot outside, the inside of a car can get 10-20' hotter in less than 5 minutes. I wouldn't want to sit in that and I wouldn't make my kid either, especially if the child is already sick and feverish. It was likely concern for making a sick child as comfortable as possible that would lead me to let them stay in the car to begin with.

 

At 1am the car is not going to get hotter.  It's the sun that makes cars get hotter.

 

Anyway - I don't know why the mom left the car on.  I know that is not unusual in some places.

 

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Jackson's high and low yesterday was 88/68'

 

If my kid was sick or it was particuliarly humid, I'd have left the car running to keep the a/c going. I like to think I wouldn't have left it unlocked bc I usually do not when the kids are in the car. I either lock it and tell them to unlock when I tap the window or I take the auto lock button thingie off the keychain so I can unlock it myself.

 

But either way.... if these jerks were the type to shoot a 6 yr old, then I doubt whether the engine was running or the car was locked would have been much of a deterrent, either bc they were idiots or just didn't care or both.

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Jackson's high and low yesterday was 88/68'

 

If my kid was sick or it was particuliarly humid, I'd have left the car running to keep the a/c going. I like to think I wouldn't have left it unlocked bc I usually do not when the kids are in the car. I either lock it and tell them to unlock when I tap the window or I take the auto lock button thingie off the keychain so I can unlock it myself.

 

But either way.... if these jerks were the type to shoot a 6 yr old, then I doubt whether the engine was running or the car was locked would have been much of a deterrent, either bc they were idiots or just didn't care or both.

 

Yeah it's hard to say what they considered a deterrent. I was actually wondering if that parking lot does surveillance. I saw a pic of the car in an article which may have been taken at the grocery store parking lot or somewhere else. Not sure.

 

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I can't imagine the agony his poor mother must be in, reliving that decision over and over in her head. People need to stop the blame. Can you imagine what she'd give to have those minutes back?

 

My heart hurts. What a terrible terrible waste.

Edited by Forget-me-not

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At 1am the car is not going to get hotter.  It's the sun that makes cars get hotter.

 

Anyway - I don't know why the mom left the car on.  I know that is not unusual in some places.

 

 

Well, if I think about my car- it's start button. I can leave it running and still have the keys with me. Lock the door, and leave the kids inside with the car running. I've done it before with my kids in it to pop into the cleaners or  something similar where it's literally two minutes I'm in there. 

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Well, if I think about my car- it's start button. I can leave it running and still have the keys with me. Lock the door, and leave the kids inside with the car running. I've done it before with my kids in it to pop into the cleaners or  something similar where it's literally two minutes I'm in there. 

 

My keychain has a feature to turn the car on so you can warm up or cool down the car for a few minutes, but don't think you can drive it in that mode. Well the feature is messing up but I have used it before and timed it. It kept the a/c on 7 minutes. I did this when I left the kids in the parking lot once (which I normally don't do but I was desperate and so I can see how these things happen). Ds had just come back from the dr and had the flu. Ran into the pharmacy with the a/c on and doors locked but I had the keys. I still felt really icky about it. I don't know that I would do it without keys on me/doors locked, but still things happen. I've definitely lost track of my child for a few seconds in walmart and had a moment of panic wondering if ds got kidnapped (even though it's statistically very unlikely. It's like one of my worst fears).

 

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