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LAmom

Need help understanding English/Language Arts credit

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I am confusing my self a bit.  And, WTM book confused me a little more (my fault).

 

I understand that there is 1 credit for English 1 (9th grade is what I am looking at).  Or you can label it Language Arts, etc.

 

Under this credit one would do (parentheses are my options):

 

--Grammar (Rod and Staff or Analytical grammar)

 

--Literature (Biblioplan literature with some Progeny Press guides--how many??)

 

--Writing (WWS2 or MP CC writing as recommended in WTM) AND/OR (WttW/Teaching Classics)

 

Now, my confusion lies with writing versus literary analysis.  If I do Progeny Press guides for literature, that counts as some literary analysis.  But, my dd also needs some writing help, so I would use WWS2 or MP CC OR Windows to the World/Teaching Classics.  Windows to the World/Teaching Classics is writing curriculum with literary analysis?  So it covers both?

 

If I use Memoria Press writing curriculum, do I still need something like WttW?  Sorry I am so  :confused1:  :confused1:  :confused1: .  

It looks like WTM puts these into 2 credits, too, but I haven't seen that anywhere else.  What do you do?

 

 

 

 

 

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It can be helpful to look at the local school district's typical high school language arts plan. Not that you have to follow that, but it gives you an idea of what the average high school student is covering, and then you can set your own priorities.

 

 

My most recent graduate did something we called "Intermediate Composition" in the 9th grade, which was essentially the Write at Home 10th grade course (she had done the 9th grade course for 8th grade.) We did not do anymore grammar study in high school. She did AP Eng Lit in 10th, English Lang in 11th. Senior year got a little goofy because of a requirement of the homeschool charter school in which she was enrolled. She did something we called "World Literature", which used Lightning Lit materials, and then Public Speaking during the spring semester. I would have only done the Public Speaking, and done it for the entire year if it wasn't for the goofy charter school contact teacher's misunderstanding of that requirement.

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I like Gr8lander's helpful post!  :) And, way way below at the bottom of my response, I've just copy-pasted bits of past responses I've made to similar posts, in case something helps. :)

 

...I understand that there is 1 credit for English 1 (9th grade is what I am looking at).  Or you can label it Language Arts, etc...

 

While you could label the credit as "Language Arts", I suggest sticking with "English", as that is what colleges are most used to looking for. The transcript that you will be creating of your student's high school work is largely for the benefit of college admissions, and labeling credits as clearly as possible with the course titles that colleges are more used to smooths your student's admission process.   :)

 

Under this credit one would do (parentheses are my options):

--Grammar (Rod and Staff or Analytical grammar)

--Literature (Biblioplan literature with some Progeny Press guides--how many??)

--Writing (WWS2 or MP CC writing as recommended in WTM) AND/OR (WttW/Teaching Classics)

 

I would drop the Grammar, unless your student really has a high need for it in 9th grade. Usually by 8th grade, students have absorbed all the formal Grammar instruction they need, and in high school they are putting the Grammar into practice through Writing (actual writing and proof-editing), Speech/Debate or oral presentations, and in learning a Foreign Language.

 

--Grammar (Rod and Staff or Analytical grammar)

--Literature (Biblioplan literature with some Progeny Press guides--how many??)

--Writing (WWS2 or MP CC writing as recommended in WTM) AND/OR (WttW/Teaching Classics)

 

Now, my confusion lies with writing versus literary analysis.  If I do Progeny Press guides for literature, that counts as some literary analysis.  But, my dd also needs some writing help, so I would use WWS2 or MP CC OR Windows to the World/Teaching Classics.  Windows to the World/Teaching Classics is writing curriculum with literary analysis?  So it covers both?

 

If I use Memoria Press writing curriculum, do I still need something like WttW?

 

As to what programs to use...

 

How much formal literature study or literary analysis have you and your student done previously? And how solid in the writing is your student? Thinking through those questions might help you figure out where you want to place your emphasis next year, and thus, what programs to use.

 

If not very strong in writing, then you may want to spend 9th grade getting solid with writing -- so use WWS 2 or MP CC for the writing portion of your English credit, and then keep things gentle with the Literature -- perhaps do Teaching the Classics together with your student and then put what you learned into practice and shift to individual works with individual lit. guides for the rest of the year, doing the amount of books/guides that works for your student. Note: you don't have to analyze every single work or use a guide for every work -- some works can just be read and discussed, then move on.

 

Once your student is comfortable with doing clear, structured writing and can turn out 3-5 paragraph essays without weeks of pain and hair-tearing, then you might consider WttW. It is a 0.5 credit program that includes both the Literature and Writing aspects of the English credit, and goes more in-depth into literary analysis.

 

You also mentioned Memoria Press -- if you're doing Biblioplan ancients next year, then instead of Progeny Press, you might consider the MP guide to The Iliad and The Odyssey, and plan on spending the major part of your Lit. time next year on the DVD lectures and guide materials for these works. And then do just a light discussion on the other works you read for your literature.

 

...It looks like WTM puts these into 2 credits, too, but I haven't seen that anywhere else.  What do you do?

 

If you are doing a 1-credit program or class EACH for Literature AND for Writing, then yes, count as 2 credits. However if that is way more English than you need or have time for what with the rest of the credits you will be accomplishing, then either spread out the material over more than 1 year, or use less intensive materials, or use materials that are scheduled for 0.5 credit each, so that together the Writing and Lit that comes out to 1 credit.

 

In case it helps, a *very* rough guide for breaking out what the English credit looks like time-wise/material wise -- and it will totally vary from student to student:

- 2-2.5 hours per week on Writing (often, this overlaps with the Lit. and is writing about the Lit)

- 3-3.5 hours per week on Literature (reading the Lit -- although it often takes more hours what you end up counting towards a credit -- plus discussing, analyzing or using a guide on the Lit -- often this overlaps with the Writing and is writing about the Lit)

 

One person recently posted a rough guide for reading Lit as 125 pages/week as a typical amount for high school students. That amount will work great for some people, and may be too much/not enough for others. That was a bit more than we could handle in 9th/10th grades, and esp. with works in translation or works written in a highly structured form (i.e., epic poems like The Iliad), and we managed more like 75-100 pages/week, depending on how difficult the work was. We were managing more pages a week by 11th/12th grade -- not sure we ever quite hit that 125 page number, but we worked at a slower rate than a lot of others on this board. Just throwing that in there so you can see that there is definitely going to be a range when figuring out what an English credit might look like. :)

 

BEST of luck in your high school credit planning! Warmest regards, Lori D.

_________________________________

 

 

 

In case it helps anyone, below is a summary of "what makes an English credit" that I put together for my home school group.

 

ENGLISH CREDIT

Typically, a high school English credit is composed of about 1/2 Composition (Writing Instruction and Assignments) and 1/2 Literature (reading classic literature and literary analysis) -- often a number of the Composition writing assignments "double dip" with the Literature and the student writes about the Literature.  Vocabulary is optional, frequently coming from the Literature. Usually Grammar instruction has been completed by 8th grade, although if a student has remedial Grammar or Spelling needs, then you would include that in planning your credit.

 

Sometimes a unit, or semester, of Public Speaking or Speech & Debate is included as part of an English credit, as it requires similar thinking, organizing and writing skills as Writing/Composition.

 

There are a number of ways of accomplishing the English credit:

 

Typical Writing Credits

- Composition (the writing process; paragraphs; structure; various types of essays; the research paper; etc.)

- Creative Writing (poetry, fiction, plays, etc.)

- Non-Fiction Writing (also called creative non-fiction: essays, reviews, biographies, speeches, etc.)

- Journalism

 

Typical Literature Credits

- Intro to Literature (often a "sampling" of authors and works, sometimes with a loose overall theme to the semester or year)

- Lit: focus on type of literature (poetry, plays, short stories, etc.)

- Lit: focus on a specific genre (ex: Roots of Steam Punk, Dystopian Lit., Fairy Tales, Gothic, etc.)

- Lit: focus on author(s) works (ex: Shakespeare, Dickens, British female 19th cent. authors, etc.

- Ancient / Medieval / Early Modern / Modern / 20th Century Literature -- etc.

- American / British / World Literature -- etc.

 

Topics NOT Counted Towards English Credit

- Logic  (Elective credit, or possible Social Science or Math credit)

- Web Design (Fine Arts credit  - OR - Elective credit)

- Drama Performance (Fine Arts credit -- studying written plays as works of literature is a Lit. credit) 

- Yearbook (extracurricular)

 

DIY courses can be a bit "mushy" to define. Sometimes tracking hours spent on a credit can help from awarding too much/too little credit for too little/too much work:

. . . . . . . . . .minimum . average . maximum

1.00 credit = 120 . . . 150 . . . 180  hours

0.75 credit =   90 . . . 110 . . . 135  hours

0.66 credit =   80 . . . 100 . . . 120  hours

0.50 credit =   60 . . . . 75 . . . . 90  hours

0.33 credit =   40 . . . . 50 . . . . 60  hours

0.25 credit =   30 . . . . 35 . . . . 45  hours

 

However, esp. with an English credit that requires reading of Lit., because students read at different paces, using just hours is not always the best way to award credit. You'd also want to look at the volume and rigor of reading, and the volume and rigor of output.

Edited by Lori D.
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