Curriculum: Needs vs Wants

[Hunter]

I know the basic school type version of budgeting needs vs wants, but suddenly knowing the difference seems very complicated to me lately.

 

In the past, as a domestic abuse victim, I often identified needs as wants. Budgeting to the point of self-neglect was easy and familiar. I was conditioned to believe I didn't NEED anything and that taking up as little space in the world was best.

 

And when I did indulge, I had no problem self-neglecting another areas to cover the wanted books.

 

Curriculum and books are just different than most other things. Or can be to some of us. It felt like a separate category to me with different rules.

 

There is so much free now, do we NEED less? But what is need? How wide is need in subtle ways, that maybe we have been taught to ignore.

 

With all the free stuff, should a family only use free stuff if buying curriculum would mean applying for food stamps or going to a food pantry or taking a gift/loan from mom and dad?

 

Should paying off an interest free loan, like a 2 year cell phone plan take precedent over books? Or is just paying it off as slowly as possible the wise choice? Mortgage: do people focus on the whole amount or just the monthly payments? Do you, or should people pay debt down faster than required before buying books?

 

Many famous people have been praised for spending food money on books. Is that praise-worthy?

 

Does anyone's religion set boundaries on spending and prioritizing education that affect your book buying?

 

I realized that with some recent worldview changes, I'm now missing any sort of a big picture to set boundaries for book buying.

 

I know I'm not making sense. This is another one of THOSE threads, so just bear with me.

 

I'm just wondering if others have struggled with anything like this. And if not, what big picture and boundaries are in place that set your budget. And what you are willing to sacrifice and why and what your religion teaches about all this. And what you think is "fair" to have and buy and still take charity of any kind.

 

I know my post is messy. This all feels messy in my head. I feel a total lack of boundaries to what I "should" and should not buy.

 

I recently realized I am suffering classic signs of anemia, and that is something I haven't had in a long time. It brought all this to a head as I have a few things on a wishlist, and going to the store that first day, everything I could first think of was more expensive than the food budget I was accustomed to. My debt is already higher than is comfortable to ME, but not a problem. I was staring at my finances all spread out. And I realized, I have no boundaries to decide what to do next. No sense of "right" or ... I don't even know what. I feel adrift and confused.

 

I know what certain people would say to me, and it would all contradict. And all those people believe firmly that they are 100% right. I know the social worker paid to try and influence me would say she doesn't care what I did or did not buy. That she has defined my income so low that she would want me to take a food card from her. I also know other people would be sick if they knew what I bought recently and dared to accept the food stamps my social worker already got for me. I know some people say disabled is not the same as low income and that I must must must get through my head that disability "should" be comfortable, and when it is not that is "wrong" and a disgrace. Some say the world is abundant. Others say there is not enough and think some are worthy of more than others. Some do not even believe in the right to life for all.

 

My head is spinning. Does anyone else's head spin when deciding to buy a $5.00 book?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carol in Cal.]

I once had my head spin over a half price pair of baby socks for $1.

 

My religion had nothing to do with it. 

 

I had specific priorities, and my priority was fiercely trying to stay home as long as possible with my baby.  We didn't buy any specific 'baby' furniture, even though I yearned over it, because I knew that in the long run going back to work 6 months early when we ran out of money was not going to feel like that furniture was worth it.  21 years later I can still see it in my head.  But I know I did the right thing.

 

If you are very anemic, you need good food.  Get it.  If you have access to a food card to get that food, take it. 

 

My rule on purchases during those days was:  If it's at a thrift store, buy it when you see because it won't be there next time.  If not, never buy anything the day you see it, because A) You might not really want it and B) You might find it at the thrift store. 

 

I encourage you to get well before you tackle this question in detail.  Illness always lies, and anemia is extraordinarily tiring and mentally confusing.

 

Hugs to you, Hunter.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[Julie of KY]

OK - here are some random thoughts.

 

• If you have a disability, then it's okay to accept the help offered.
• You need a budget. Start simple. Figure out how much money you have coming in and assign it somewhere. Pay your bills, food, house, clothing, insurance, etc. Tackle the debt that isn't mortgage. Start saving some money for emergencies. Once you have a better handle of where your money is going, you can assign some of the budget to schooling/books.
• If you have more money, then it's okay to spend it on what others might think is frivolous. However, don't spend what you don't have.
• Food is a need. People should not be praised for spending their needed food money on books.

 

If you want advice on getting your finances under control and starting a budget based on Biblical principles, then I'd recommend you look at Dave Ramsey.

[nixpix5]

I once had my head spin over a half price pair of baby socks for $1.

 

My religion had nothing to do with it.

 

I had specific priorities, and my priority was fiercely trying to stay home as long as possible with my baby. We didn't buy any specific 'baby' furniture, even though I yearned over it, because I knew that in the long run going back to work 6 months early when we ran out of money was not going to feel like that furniture was worth it. 21 years later I can still see it in my head. But I know I did the right thing.

 

If you are very anemic, you need good food. Get it. If you have access to a food card to get that food, take it.

 

My rule on purchases during those days was: If it's at a thrift store, buy it when you see because it won't be there next time. If not, never buy anything the day you see it, because A) You might not really want it and B) You might find it at the thrift store.

 

I encourage you to get well before you tackle this question in detail. Illness always lies, and anemia is extraordinarily tiring and mentally confusing.

 

Hugs to you, Hunter.

Brilliant advise.

 

We all go through a similar struggle at some point. Like you, books and curriculum are a weakness for me too. Yet, you must take care of yourself first. The high is the purchase and once you have it then it is on to the next thing. Recognizing this and fighting the urge is absolutely crucial. Get food, get to the doctor and get well!

[Hunter]

Carol, thank you! That is exactly the kind of big picture stuff I feel like I am missing. I just froze. And yes, the anemia ITSELF probably isn't helping, and I think realizing I was anemic was a bit of a trigger and triggered my PTSD a bit in some way. Shame, blame, anxiety. I don't even know what.

 

I think I should probably worry less about HOW I deal with the anemia, but prioritize dealing with it, and give myself permission in the meantime not to do it "right", if need be. It is enough to fix it, any way, as long as it gets fixed. Even if it was my "fault" it still needs to be fixed.

 

My neighbor came over and she started brainstorming with me. I just wasn't eating badly at all. I just was not eating iron. And didn't realize it. I really didn't think I was missing such an important mineral. And she didn't notice either. I didn't purposely do anything wrong. I knew I was cutting it a little close, and so did she, and so did my social worker, but no one was like, "Hey stupid, you are not eating enough iron."

[Hunter]

Julie and NixPix, thank you. I'm a real "write to learn" type person. It helps me so much to engage in group talk when I am confused.

 

Julie, thank you for the book title. I used to be a Christian, and as is SOOOO common with PTSD, I lost my faith. I don't have a faith in anybody or anything yet, but I have gradually been getting back faith in general. It is hard to explain. but I like to hear about how people's religion helps them decide things I am stuck on. My small vague faith is starting to guide more and more of my choices, lately. And even changing my desires.

 

I know what so many would say about my current debt level and what I spent my money on, but I have no idea what *I* think about it. I'm not sure if that make sense. At some point I need to adopt a plan of action, even if I don't really believe in it. Frozen won't work long term.

 

Nixpix, books are addictive. As a child, I used to just burst into tears when I ran out of books. My need for input is pretty insatiable. I get curious about something and just want to KNOW and to know NOW and sometimes it can wait. Ebooks are so instant and do not need to be stored. By your post count, I don't think you were here during any of my major hardcopy book loss episodes. :lol: I love ebooks. The number of ebooks I have lost can never compare to the loss of the hardcopies.

[Peaceseeker]

 

My religion would teach that it is not the books or the money spent on books that is the issue, but rather how we feel about the books or the money. The material world is not evil, it is neutral. How we interact with the material world is what is important, with detachment being the goal and understanding some things which we cling to may cause us spiritual harm. Not because of the things themselves, which are neutral, but because of our attachment to them which draws us away from the spiritual.

 

If you qualify for food help, then you qualify. Accept that you meet the standard for getting help and focus on the quality of life you can have with your income that remains after the help. Debt is a four letter word to some people and to others who carry debt on everything it can be no big deal. The question is how do you feel about your debt ratio? That answer helps determine how you spend your remaining budget. If you have covered your basic living expenses either through aid or with your income, then what remains is your disposable income. It sounds like you feel guilty that you have any disposable income because you receive aid, and that you feel guilty using that money on anything that is not a need.

 

I don't think there is a stipulation placed on food stamps where if you receive them you must never spend another dollar on an unnecessary or frivolous purchase. Your income was examined and you met the requirement. I hope that the tax money spent on food stamps is helping to create a little margin in people's lives, so that they can buy a good book every now and then (or a pair of shoes, or toiletries or whatever else). That little bit of margin is not enough to feed your family even if you saved it. That is why you qualified.

 

The library is probably your best friend. I hope you have a good one nearby!

[FO4UR]

There are mental/emotional survival habits at play.

 

I have self-neglected to obtain hs currics and books too.

 

I fought for those books. I sacrificed for those books. Like a primal early human would an animal, I hunted and caught and devoured those books.

 

We live in a world NOW where we don't have to hunt or scavenge. But our minds have not caught up. Instinct drives us.

 

I recently discarded every stitch of clothing from the old life and bought new. Totally frivolous from onlookers pov, I am sure. I had to do it though. I am not the old me, and I cannot wear her clothes. I went from owning very little clothing to more than I can store in my closet quickly. It was that instinctive drive, like when shopping for a layette for a new baby. One day I stopped. I have enough.

 

I bought mostly thrift store and clearance,but still...and i bought some friggin' awesome trail running shoes because trail running is therapy to me. It wasn't a shopping high that I felt when I bought them. I was scared at first. Instinct tells me that taking care of me gets me hurt. Wearing them, running in them, and storing them in plain sight is strangely healing. That is the high.

 

As far as taking help, when kids are involved it is sometimes the only way to hold the (abusive) father accountable to providing for his kids. It sucks, but the gov't has teeth I don't. That could be a whole different conversation. Anyway, I refuse shame over what I have to do to survive and thrive. Death is not my shepherd. (Psalm 49)

[Guest]

^^ Whole post is excellent, but this:

 

We live in a world NOW where we don't have to hunt or scavenge. But our minds have not caught up. Instinct drives us.

 

 

is so spot-on.

 

 

I can go through books and give them away en masse, no problem. But if DH--beautiful, generous DH-- so much as teases me about the books, my hackles go up and I have to fight off the instinct to snarl. And my childhood was *full* of books. But, only books see? Books and unlimited time outside.

 

Help? Take all the help. Not because of any deep philosophical or economic reason, for me. More like... if a lion comes across a steak, just sitting there, he'd be a dumb*ss lion not to eat the steak.  Especially when the steak feels like it gets karma points/heaven bucks/tax write-offs if the lion eats it. Possibly I am stretching the this simile too far :coolgleamA: 

 

 

Many famous people have been praised for spending food money on books. Is that praise-worthy?

 

 

Sure, if you get famous everything you've done up to that point is praise-worthy. If you get infamous, now, everything you've done up to that point is dubious. :laugh:  Either way, shrugshrugshrug! Sometimes you gotta eat and sometimes you gotta buy books.

 

 

With all the free stuff, should a family only use free stuff if buying curriculum would mean applying for food stamps or going to a food pantry or taking a gift/loan from mom and dad?

 

 

 

The time cost of all these things- both the books and materials, and the various forms of help- come into play more for me, honestly, than the money. I mean after a certain point, there's obviously no blood from a stone, but up to that point, time and emotional buy-in is more important to me. And I think that's good.... that has helped me make what have been, ultimately, good choices for me and mine.

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I think curriculum needs v. wants has changed for me over time. Many years ago, I was just beginning in homeschooling. I had no books on hand, and finances were tight. I didn't know how to go out and fully survey what was even available. I wanted what I could find because I felt like I was coming from a place of scarcity, and something was better than nothing. I spent so many days scouring used bookstores and making up book lists and organizational charts! As years have gone by, I have become much choosier about what I buy, and what I'm willing to spend in order to acquire something. I can do this only because I have a sense of what is available to me and what I really need. I didn't know what was "essential" versus what was not.  Being able to sort out how I teach and what I really *need* has changed because I view myself as the primary resource now (I am capable!) and the materials I use are supportive.  

 

Does my own story make sense?

 

As to self-denial to provide for others' wants, I am still sorting that out. This year I have made many different choices for the first time because I finally realized that many of the limitations I had over me were self-placed, and not healthy.  

[Hunter]

Everything all of you are saying is making sense. I want to come back and reply to each post individually. You all are helping so much. Thank you!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luuknam]

We, as voters (okay, I can't vote here, but w/e), have (indirectly) decided that you deserve certain things, including food stamps. If any particular person doesn't agree, they can vote for someone who says they'll change the laws, and someone else who thinks you deserve even more (say, book stamps), can vote for someone who says they'll make a law that gives low-income people a certain book budget every month or w/e. And in the end, not everybody is going to agree about how much you get (some will think you get too much, some will think you get too little), but as-is, it's been decided you deserve food stamps, and no, there isn't a law that says you cannot spend anything on non-necessities if you take the food stamps you qualify for, so if you have money left over for non-necessities thanks to being on food stamps, you can use that money however you want. You could get cable, you can buy books, you can even do bad things with the money such as donate it to the KKK. Totally up to you. 

 

And no, I don't think it's a moral question whether you pay off your mortgage or other debt before spending any money on non-necessities, so long as you're making your payments - it WOULD be wrong to buy bottles of champagne while defaulting on your mortgage or other debt. 

[fralala]

Well, I don't know if I can contribute to the conversation fruitfully, but my one reaction to the concept of "FREE" things is that they aren't really free. You have to expend something, and if it's not money, it's probably lots of time and effort that people who are fortunate enough never to have been poor just don't get. (For instance, American public libraries are one of the things that make me patriotic and proud, but at the same time, having spent hours on buses and toting books along the side of the road when I had little money, I also know that they cost some people a lot more to use, and I'm not talking about fines or taxes. Likewise, homeschooling without spending a dime takes a much greater expenditure of time and energy, doesn't it? Especially if one doesn't have a computer.)

 

The whole process of getting those food stamps? I'm guessing you've paid with something that's more precious than money. (Your TIME. Your mental energy.) You deserve to be nourished.

 

What I really want to ask, though, and not because I am trying to measure your worth as a human being or whether you have made a terrible mistake, but because I love books, is...what was the book? I hope it's bringing you happiness despite the muddle and that your inner voice is speaking up on your behalf! (Those inner voices can be nasty, judgmental little creatures sometimes, especially when they start echoing some of the more hurtful things we've heard others tell us.)

[Carol in Cal.]

YES!

Fellow bibliophiles want to know:

 

WHAT WAS THE BOOK?

 

(So we can want it, too.  Because you know we will.  It's just how we are.)

[Hunter]

I am not admitting to what I have bought recently :001_smile:  and put on my charge cards, except the iPhone, which you all know about, because everytime I use tapatalk to post from that iPhone, it blabs that I have an iPhone to the whole freaking world. And I don't know how to turn it off.

 

I went months without a proper phone, knowing I was accessing services at agencies where I know some of the workers thought no one accessing services there should have a cell phone; not even the government provided tracphones known as Obamaphones, and those are not even what people think they are . Not all employees, just some. My finances are fixed now, but I went months where I fell throughout the system without enough funds to even have choices about right and wrong. And I refused to charge anything at that time, as I was going through an appeals process that would have made me homeless for the third time if I didn't win the case.

 

My social worker assures me I did NOTHING that could have prevented any of what happened. It was falling in holes in the system caused by the democrats and republicans trying to undue what the other has done. As Luuknam said, we have laws. Thank god we do, but there are ways to play with the laws and both sides are seriously at play. That play costs social workers a lot of money to keep disabled people out of homeless shelters. Despite housing being so much cheaper than homelessness, we are not doing a good job of keeping housed people housed with this foolishness. And then people just made mistakes and wanted to cover that up from their bosses and anyone that might advocate on my behalf. 

 

So even when the threat of homelessness passed and my food stamps got turned back on, I paid off all my debt before I bought the iPhone. In the past when anyone caused a stink about my phone, my social worker called it a medical device for my memory loss. She had watched me deteriorate without one and it just pissed her off that it continued to be an issue. But I couldn't take the shaming, so I didn't replace it while I was so reliant on those agencies. What I learned in that period, is that things have changed since I last went without a phone. The issue of whether it is a needed medical device or not has been superseded by the fact that cell phones and wifi access have been declared utilities now. PEOPLE need to be hooked up in some way, or they cannot function independently, even if they are healthy. I have first hand experience struggling to pay my bills and be independent. It was buy a phone or have a social worker help me with things I am perfectly capable of doing but just didn't have the tools to do them.

 

So as I talk about boundaries. I have a boundary that I will not go without a cell phone again, and as long as Android is what Android is right now, I'm going to buy an Apple, even if an older Apple, but it is gong to be apple. I'm not going to flash it, and might even hide it at certain places, but I'm going to have it period. That is a personal boundary I have decided on.

 

A second boundary is my right to life. People who know me best know how much I have struggled with this in the past. After having to breathe in those dead body gas fumes for over a week, I understand that healthy humans are designed with something in their brain that usually prevents them from killing their own. There is some sort of pheromone action like the pheromone reactions that happen during sex and nursing. Something primal was triggered in my brain. "Thou shalt not kill," is based on human biology. 

 

In the past, I had asked my social worker why it seems that people from all worldviews agreed on not instituting euthanasia of the disabled and she didn't have an answer. So many people seem to want disabled people gone that I didn't understand lack of action to make it happen. It is against the law to try and commit suicide and you will get locked up if anyone thinks you might try it, but some disabled people are continually given the message they don't have the right to life, and especially not to use any resources that could go to the more wanted and productive people.

 

Now I know. Those dead body gasses. I know. Don't kill. So I am here. That is now a boundary. And a really big one that bounds SO many other choices.

 

So after things settled down, and my food stamps were turned back on, my housing secured, and my rent dropped from 40% to the proper 30% of my income, I suddenly had a whole bunch of options. 

 

My neighbor kept telling me that I either qualified or I didn't. That I didn't need to earn worker or donor validation for my lifestyle to apply. "You do you!" she kept telling me. "And then see what you qualify for or not. But you do YOU!"

 

Oooh, Im rambling and getting messy here.

 

I need to back up and reply to posts. But as to what I bought. Nope! :lol: 

[Carol in Cal.]

Good boundaries!

 

And, we love you!

[Hunter]

My religion would teach that it is not the books or the money spent on books that is the issue, but rather how we feel about the books or the money. The material world is not evil, it is neutral. How we interact with the material world is what is important, with detachment being the goal and understanding some things which we cling to may cause us spiritual harm. Not because of the things themselves, which are neutral, but because of our attachment to them which draws us away from the spiritual.

 

If you qualify for food help, then you qualify. Accept that you meet the standard for getting help and focus on the quality of life you can have with your income that remains after the help. Debt is a four letter word to some people and to others who carry debt on everything it can be no big deal. The question is how do you feel about your debt ratio? That answer helps determine how you spend your remaining budget. If you have covered your basic living expenses either through aid or with your income, then what remains is your disposable income. It sounds like you feel guilty that you have any disposable income because you receive aid, and that you feel guilty using that money on anything that is not a need.

 

I don't think there is a stipulation placed on food stamps where if you receive them you must never spend another dollar on an unnecessary or frivolous purchase. Your income was examined and you met the requirement. I hope that the tax money spent on food stamps is helping to create a little margin in people's lives, so that they can buy a good book every now and then (or a pair of shoes, or toiletries or whatever else). That little bit of margin is not enough to feed your family even if you saved it. That is why you qualified.

 

The library is probably your best friend. I hope you have a good one nearby!

 

I'm reading this over and over. Thank you. I think I'm going to have to copy some of these questions down and dwell on them.

 

Im very near one of the largest libraries in the world. It is a mixed blessing, though. Many basic services are just not done well, many workers do not speak English well, and just...it is shocking what we don't have at all or not consistently.

 

I didn't pay for a subway pass again this month to save money so am totally on foot and cannot go to other libraries. But I can access downloads from 3 library systems. One of the months that I did have a pass, I went and got my other 2 cards renewed from neighboring systems, so I could download books when my supposedly worldclass library cannot handle even that properly. We often don't even have the bestsellers, but we have a ton of male/male werewolf romances. I kid you not! I read a couple and now know things that you all really do not want to know about wolf mating practices. :lol:

 

And as Fralala said, even with eBooks, you need to have something to read them. And a pass or individual fare to libraries costs money. But I have something and I'm going to use what I have this month, while I focus on food with iron, and figuring out what my boundaries are, in that order.

[Hunter]

There are mental/emotional survival habits at play.

 

I have self-neglected to obtain hs currics and books too.

 

I fought for those books. I sacrificed for those books. Like a primal early human would an animal, I hunted and caught and devoured those books.

 

We live in a world NOW where we don't have to hunt or scavenge. But our minds have not caught up. Instinct drives us.

 

I recently discarded every stitch of clothing from the old life and bought new. Totally frivolous from onlookers pov, I am sure. I had to do it though. I am not the old me, and I cannot wear her clothes. I went from owning very little clothing to more than I can store in my closet quickly. It was that instinctive drive, like when shopping for a layette for a new baby. One day I stopped. I have enough.

 

I bought mostly thrift store and clearance,but still...and i bought some friggin' awesome trail running shoes because trail running is therapy to me. It wasn't a shopping high that I felt when I bought them. I was scared at first. Instinct tells me that taking care of me gets me hurt. Wearing them, running in them, and storing them in plain sight is strangely healing. That is the high.

 

As far as taking help, when kids are involved it is sometimes the only way to hold the (abusive) father accountable to providing for his kids. It sucks, but the gov't has teeth I don't. That could be a whole different conversation. Anyway, I refuse shame over what I have to do to survive and thrive. Death is not my shepherd. (Psalm 49)

 

FO4UR

 

Thank you for this! It is so helpful to hear it all said with different items, but the same PTSD type reactions. Unlike you, there is no healing in letting anyone see my stuff. Just shame and fear.

 

I need to do some fake it till you make it, when I feel strongly about something being right. But I know the phone is right. And I still can't. It is probably good I cannot turn off the tapatalk iPhone thingy. I get a gut check whenever I see it pop up in a post.

 

Thanks for Psalm 49! I skimmed it in the KJV and need to go back and read it in something easier.

[Hunter]

For issues of religion and extreme views. I welcome it all. I understand someone not wanting to out themselves in a public forum, when someone other than me can read it and respond, but for ME anything from atheist, communism, patriarchal religion, matriarchal religion, and spaghetti strainer in the head religion, is all welcome and helpful.

[Hunter]

^^ Whole post is excellent, but this:

 

 

is so spot-on.

 

 

I can go through books and give them away en masse, no problem. But if DH--beautiful, generous DH-- so much as teases me about the books, my hackles go up and I have to fight off the instinct to snarl. And my childhood was *full* of books. But, only books see? Books and unlimited time outside.

 

Help? Take all the help. Not because of any deep philosophical or economic reason, for me. More like... if a lion comes across a steak, just sitting there, he'd be a dumb*ss lion not to eat the steak.  Especially when the steak feels like it gets karma points/heaven bucks/tax write-offs if the lion eats it. Possibly I am stretching the this simile too far :coolgleamA:

 

 

 

Sure, if you get famous everything you've done up to that point is praise-worthy. If you get infamous, now, everything you've done up to that point is dubious. :laugh:  Either way, shrugshrugshrug! Sometimes you gotta eat and sometimes you gotta buy books.

 

 

 

 

The time cost of all these things- both the books and materials, and the various forms of help- come into play more for me, honestly, than the money. I mean after a certain point, there's obviously no blood from a stone, but up to that point, time and emotional buy-in is more important to me. And I think that's good.... that has helped me make what have been, ultimately, good choices for me and mine.

 

The hackles. Yes.

 

The simile is spot on. I accessed a service I qualify for today, and will continue to do so for at least a month or two.

 

Thanks for the praiseworthy reflection. That makes a lot of sense. It isn't about what was praised. That keeps getting praised, BUT, yeah, people tend to praise whatever. Books instead of food is a common trait of famous people, but not not necessarily a good choice. Getting famous doesn't mean it was a good choice. I think some of those dudes wore wigs and high heals too, and I think good old Ben took fresh air baths exposing himself to anyone looking at his window. I don't think I'll try that. :lol:

 

Blood from a stone. As my credit has grown, and more has been offered to me, There is so much more wiggle room, before it is blood from a stone. Interest free, longer to pay it off, great limits. The increase in credit is a good thing. I worked hard for that. This week I think I lost focus on what an accomplishment that was, and all the CHOICES it gives me, and just panicked.

 

This really is my first time without blood from a stone being so close. My credit was growing so much while I was facing loss of my housing voucher, but using credit was not an option. Yeah, right now, this is the first taste of having blood from a stone come with so much wiggle room. Thanks! You hit on something here.

 

My first grown up use of credit didn't come when it was given to me. It is now. This is partly growing pains and a transition I didn't recognize. Like turning 18 while still in high school and living at home. The real transition is a few months later.

[Hunter]

I think curriculum needs v. wants has changed for me over time. Many years ago, I was just beginning in homeschooling. I had no books on hand, and finances were tight. I didn't know how to go out and fully survey what was even available. I wanted what I could find because I felt like I was coming from a place of scarcity, and something was better than nothing. I spent so many days scouring used bookstores and making up book lists and organizational charts! As years have gone by, I have become much choosier about what I buy, and what I'm willing to spend in order to acquire something. I can do this only because I have a sense of what is available to me and what I really need. I didn't know what was "essential" versus what was not.  Being able to sort out how I teach and what I really *need* has changed because I view myself as the primary resource now (I am capable!) and the materials I use are supportive.  

 

Does my own story make sense?

 

As to self-denial to provide for others' wants, I am still sorting that out. This year I have made many different choices for the first time because I finally realized that many of the limitations I had over me were self-placed, and not healthy.

 

Self-placed limitations. Yes. I'm struggling to identify those.

 

Needs vs wants changes. Yes. Yes. That helps. I have had a major worldview change. That did require new material. I am not who I was. Like FO4OR said, she was not who she was and needed a layette.

[Hunter]

We, as voters (okay, I can't vote here, but w/e), have (indirectly) decided that you deserve certain things, including food stamps. If any particular person doesn't agree, they can vote for someone who says they'll change the laws, and someone else who thinks you deserve even more (say, book stamps), can vote for someone who says they'll make a law that gives low-income people a certain book budget every month or w/e. And in the end, not everybody is going to agree about how much you get (some will think you get too much, some will think you get too little), but as-is, it's been decided you deserve food stamps, and no, there isn't a law that says you cannot spend anything on non-necessities if you take the food stamps you qualify for, so if you have money left over for non-necessities thanks to being on food stamps, you can use that money however you want. You could get cable, you can buy books, you can even do bad things with the money such as donate it to the KKK. Totally up to you. 

 

And no, I don't think it's a moral question whether you pay off your mortgage or other debt before spending any money on non-necessities, so long as you're making your payments - it WOULD be wrong to buy bottles of champagne while defaulting on your mortgage or other debt. 

 

When can we rest in the laws? When more modern people look at people in the past, they shame them so badly for simply resting in the laws of the time.

 

Sometimes I do rest in the laws and have have quoted them when attacked. Other times I am shaken, when the laws are being called corrupt.

 

I think it is okay for me to rest in the laws this year, and revisit whether that is still  okay next year. I need to get unfrozen. I think this is a justifiable boundary that I can totally grab, as long as I keep it temporary.

 

Thank you!

[Guest]

You could always just do a hunter challenge and limit yourself to one box/shelf/corner/room/whatever :)

 

((()))

[HTRMom]

Take the food stamps. Don't take loans from your parents unless you really have to, but if they want to gift you curriculum money by all means take that. I would just take the welfare money as part of your budget like any other income. It doesn't mean that you forfeit the right to buy things you want.

 

I don't desire to pay down debt unless it's high interest. Even then, it's below quality of life spending for me. (I mean, beyond scheduled payments.)

 

If you are anemic, you cannot spend your food money on books. I don't know that that's the goal for everyone, but yes, I think their desire to learn and educate their children and self-sacrifice is sometimes praiseworthy.

 

My religion (Catholic) says nothing about how much money to spend on education. It says that you have to contribute to the Church and charity according to ability. But if you're on food stamps, I think ability is 0.

 

My budget is like this: 50% stuff like food, housing, loan payments. 20% clothing, books, entertainment, travel. 20% savings. 10% church and charity.

 

Areas I am more willing to scrimp or sacrifice: tv subscriptions, cellphone service, vacations, pets, new as opposed to second-hand clothes for everyone, hair and beauty, convenient shopping/buying as opposed to warehouse bulk, vehicles, eating out

 

Less willing: Food quality, learning experiences and materials for my kids, quality footwear for everyone, staying at home as long as I want with kids

 

Maybe you should write down things you tend to spend money on and things you don't. Prioritize how much you value them. See if this has a relationship to how you spend money on them.

 

 

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[Hunter]

Well, I don't know if I can contribute to the conversation fruitfully, but my one reaction to the concept of "FREE" things is that they aren't really free. You have to expend something, and if it's not money, it's probably lots of time and effort that people who are fortunate enough never to have been poor just don't get. (For instance, American public libraries are one of the things that make me patriotic and proud, but at the same time, having spent hours on buses and toting books along the side of the road when I had little money, I also know that they cost some people a lot more to use, and I'm not talking about fines or taxes. Likewise, homeschooling without spending a dime takes a much greater expenditure of time and energy, doesn't it? Especially if one doesn't have a computer.)

 

The whole process of getting those food stamps? I'm guessing you've paid with something that's more precious than money. (Your TIME. Your mental energy.) You deserve to be nourished.

 

What I really want to ask, though, and not because I am trying to measure your worth as a human being or whether you have made a terrible mistake, but because I love books, is...what was the book? I hope it's bringing you happiness despite the muddle and that your inner voice is speaking up on your behalf! (Those inner voices can be nasty, judgmental little creatures sometimes, especially when they start echoing some of the more hurtful things we've heard others tell us.)

 

I mentioned some of this above and yes, yes, yes, that free is not always free. Stuff just doesn't need a printer, but it needs a device that is compatible with that printer. And now some devices cannot even read thumb drives anymore and that is becoming the trend. When technology advances, you often cannot piecemeal your technology. Stuff isn't compatible. it doesn't work.

 

Hint about where some money went. It wasn't a book. It was dealing with incompatibility issues and not having access to my eBooks, and several other incompatibility issues. I was shocked at the situation I found myself in. It was like a bottleneck, with a vast amount of resources on the other side I could not access. Not only could charging something widen the bottleneck, but my best option to do so, was rumored to not be available soon. It was not in my timetable to purchase something yet. There was no thrill of the purchase. There was no thrill at the iPhone either. None. Just relief at not being so bottlenecked and so locked out of the "free" stuff. And fear and shame that I had done something wrong.

 

Getting the food stamps back was HELL. And getting them back cost the taxpayers money because it took a highly trained and paid person to get them back. And it took so much work to get them back and deal with my housing, and injuries, and other things that other clients got short changed during that period, while my stuff got prioritized over theirs. I heard people complaining about the bad things that were happening and how staff didn't have time, and I knew I had been made a priority over them. So when that bubbly social worker talked about the abundance of the world, I cried, and told her I didn't believe her. My food stamps even cost other people. 

 

Inner voices. Remembering what people in the past have said to me and about people like me. After smelling the remains of that dead veteran who gave up the fight, one of the few things I do not believe from old voices, is that the disabled are committing a crime against the whole by daring to survive. I have let that one go. It gets messy how I am supposed to live, but I know I am supposed to fight to live, even if people say I shouldn't.

[Hunter]

Good boundaries!

 

And, we love you!

 

I love you all too! This had helped so much. I feel so much more grounded and bounded already. I just froze. And now many of these issues seem categorized and prioritized and increasingly bounded. I don't feel frozen anymore.

[Hunter]

You could always just do a hunter challenge and limit yourself to one box/shelf/corner/room/whatever :)

 

((()))

 

It doesn't help with eBooks or little expensive books.

 

I don't have much to show for what I spent. Just yesterday I got both praised and reprimanded for how spartan and tidy my unit is. "Like spread out and make a mess a bit, and be normal!"

 

With thumb drives being phased out, and free online storage being limited, I guess I'm going to be soon quite limited by GB.

[Hunter]

Take the food stamps. Don't take loans from your parents unless you really have to, but if they want to gift you curriculum money by all means take that. I would just take the welfare money as part of your budget like any other income. It doesn't mean that you forfeit the right to buy things you want.

 

I don't desire to pay down debt unless it's high interest. Even then, it's below quality of life spending for me. (I mean, beyond scheduled payments.)

 

If you are anemic, you cannot spend your food money on books. I don't know that that's the goal for everyone, but yes, I think their desire to learn and educate their children and self-sacrifice is sometimes praiseworthy.

 

My religion (Catholic) says nothing about how much money to spend on education. It says that you have to contribute to the Church and charity according to ability. But if you're on food stamps, I think ability is 0.

 

My budget is like this: 50% stuff like food, housing, loan payments. 20% clothing, books, entertainment, travel. 20% savings. 10% church and charity.

 

Areas I am more willing to scrimp or sacrifice: tv subscriptions, cellphone service, vacations, pets, new as opposed to second-hand clothes for everyone, hair and beauty, convenient shopping/buying as opposed to warehouse bulk, vehicles, eating out

 

Less willing: Food quality, learning experiences and materials for my kids, quality footwear for everyone, staying at home as long as I want with kids

 

Maybe you should write down things you tend to spend money on and things you don't. Prioritize how much you value them. See if this has a relationship to how you spend money on them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Some of the questions in my first post don't apply directly to me, but were general group questions that were similar to my questions, but more applicable to the typical poster. My boys are grown. I did quite a bit of tutoring and then took a break. I was just contacted about what looks like a pretty intensive tutoring situation, that I have accepted. I have some writing projects going on that may or may never be seen by anyone but me.

 

I'm past rearing my own wee ones, but hang out here anyway, because this is the best place online to hang out, and once a homeschooler always a homeschooler. You don't stop BEING what you became, just like most retired doctors and pastors don't stop BEING. it doesn't turn off your core and how you relate to the world and others. You all are my peeps.

 

That is a really good idea to apply a rating to some things. Shoes. :lol: When I have been most broke, I have spent the most money on shoes, and when anyone tries to "counsel" me to make a different choice, I just walk away. When most days I was walking 10 miles a day, shoes were #1 even before food, because the shoes allowed me to walk to free food.

 

"Food is more important than branded shoes!" I was told.

 

"You can give a man a fish or give him a fishhook," I responded.

 

This month is the 1st month my rent dropped back to 30%. All the past few months things have been steadily improving. I do need to put this all on paper, because I doubt I have an accurate picture of what I have, now. Too much changed too fast. Percents. Yes. I think that will help.

 

Thanks!

[Carol in Cal.]

My rule about charging things is only to do so when I am pretty sure I can pay the bill before interest is incurred.

For credit cards that generally means by the end of the month.

Other than that I try to save ahead for expenditures that I plan.

I can't always do this, but that is the ideal and I work hard to achieve it.

[Hunter]

My rule about charging things is only to do so when I am pretty sure I can pay the bill before interest is incurred.

For credit cards that generally means by the end of the month.

Other than that I try to save ahead for expenditures that I plan.

I can't always do this, but that is the ideal and I work hard to achieve it.

One of the new things that had thrown me off is how much interest free credit is now being thrown my way.

 

I don't have a mortgage, but I realized I have some things that are really important to ME. They are similar to a mortgage to ME.

 

At times I am offered some pretty large amounts of interest free credit. This is and is not different from interest. It does need to be paid back at SOME point.

 

I do need to assign hierarchy to types of purchases and types of credit. And then assign different limits to different types. Soft limits, but limits. The advantage of credit is that it is a soft limit with some flexibility.

 

All of this seems so much clearer after talking to you all.

 

 

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[Carol in Cal.]

Ha, free credit is ALWAYS temporary.

Like 12 months or 6 or 15.

Then it pops really high. Nasty bugger, that stuff.

But you can beat it.

[luuknam]

When can we rest in the laws? When more modern people look at people in the past, they shame them so badly for simply resting in the laws of the time.

 

 

Well, yeah. And on the other hand, if you took people from the past, they'd probably have some serious problems with some modern day laws as well. So, no, I don't think legal = moral or anything. But I also think you can overthink things. Taking food stamps because you qualify is not the same as owning a slave because you legally can, or beating your wife because you legally can. It's just stuff. Enjoy the $5 book.

[Hunter]

Well, yeah. And on the other hand, if you took people from the past, they'd probably have some serious problems with some modern day laws as well. So, no, I don't think legal = moral or anything. But I also think you can overthink things. Taking food stamps because you qualify is not the same as owning a slave because you legally can, or beating your wife because you legally can. It's just stuff. Enjoy the $5 book.

That is fun to think about. What they would think of modern laws.

 

I do overthink things! PTSD does that. I know some of this is falling into PTSD habits. There is so much involved as I tease it all apart. But I'm totally going for the law thing for now. It is not like it is criminal to follow the law. :lol:

 

 

 

 

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[Hunter]

Ha, free credit is ALWAYS temporary.

Like 12 months or 6 or 15.

Then it pops really high. Nasty bugger, that stuff.

But you can beat it.

I never had so much of it before. What does anyone do with credit after a certain amount? It is not like you can use it if you intend to pay it back.

 

 

 

 

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[Sahamamama2]

I encourage you to get well before you tackle this question in detail.  Illness always lies, and anemia is extraordinarily tiring and mentally confusing.

 

Hugs to you, Hunter.

 

I agree with all of Carol's post, but especially the advice to get well before tackling this question in great depth. Especially when I'm hypothyroid, making decisions is so impossible, it's hard to describe. No amount of willpower will get me "there," but if I wait until I emerge, then that always turns out to be the right thing to have done. If the question about buying books can wait until you feel better, I would encourage you to let it wait. Hugs! :grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

I never had so much of it before. What does anyone do with credit after a certain amount? It is not like you can use it if you intend to pay it back.

 

 

 

They don't use it, but it builds their credit score if they use a little of it and pay it back regularly.  

[luuknam]

I do overthink things! PTSD does that. I know some of this is falling into PTSD habits. 

 

 

I hadn't considered it to be a PTSD thing. I think I've probably always overthought stuff, though I'm not sure... I think it can be one of those things that can be a gift and a curse, or a positive trait and a negative trait, like being stubborn or determined. We could call it "seeing possibilities", lol. 

[Guest]

 

I never had so much of it before. What does anyone do with credit after a certain amount? It is not like you can use it if you intend to pay it back.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Credit allows me to have a smaller "in case of emergency" fund.

 

I know it is there if my car or freezer breaks down unexpectedly or if I have unexpected medical expenses. Of course I want to pay off my debt as soon as possible, but having credit buys me time to withdraw from a money market fund or a savings account and transfer to a checking account.

 

This helps my irrational ptsd self to feel comfortable with a smaller checking account balance, especially during times of uneven income, i.e., waiting for a check that is expected quarterly rather than monthly, etc.

 

When I can do that, I can get more interest on what doesn't need to be in my immediately accessible emergency fund.

 

I'm probably not explaining it very well.

[Hunter]

I agree with all of Carol's post, but especially the advice to get well before tackling this question in great depth. Especially when I'm hypothyroid, making decisions is so impossible, it's hard to describe. No amount of willpower will get me "there," but if I wait until I emerge, then that always turns out to be the right thing to have done. If the question about buying books can wait until you feel better, I would encourage you to let it wait. Hugs! :grouphug:

Stupid thyroids. So annoying. I wonder if a number of humans always had these low levels, or if this is a new thing that is pretty easy to avoid if we just knew how.

 

I like your use of "emerge"! I have had many different periods where it was best to put off as much as possible until I emerged. I like that term. Thanks!

 

 

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[Hunter]

They don't use it, but it builds their credit score if they use a little of it and pay it back regularly.

I just think it is funny that the less you use, the more they give you.

 

It is fun to study what puts scores up and down and make a plan to watch the number go up.

 

I had a goal number to reach for my 50th birthday and I made it! I showed up at the cell phone company in a sleet storm wearing a trash bag style rain cape, dripping all over the store, and with nothing but a tracfone with my phone number taped to the back because my memory loss issues make it impossible to remember that number.

 

The employee that helped me, was like, "Um, before we talk, I need to run a credit check."

 

I just smiled. "Okay".

 

His eyes got real big. "Do you know that your credit is ...?"

 

Happy Birthday to me! I did it! 10 years since I left. I won this one. I fixed my credit. I fixed it so good that wide eyes are no longer about how bad it is, but are now about how good it is.

 

I am ridiculously happy about making my credit score goal for my 50th birthday.

 

 

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[Hunter]

I hadn't considered it to be a PTSD thing. I think I've probably always overthought stuff, though I'm not sure... I think it can be one of those things that can be a gift and a curse, or a positive trait and a negative trait, like being stubborn or determined. We could call it "seeing possibilities", lol.

PTSD is weird. So much of it is not what healthy people think. So much of it is peeling back the layers of brainwashing one layer at a time. Abusing takes time and energy. Abusers quickly figure out that the most effective way to gain control is to teach you to abuse yourself and make it a habit so entrenched you don't even know you are doing it. Then all they have to do is sit back and watch. And if they can train you to abuse others for them, that is even better.

 

I'm definitely having to examine where I am and am not hurting myself and living habits that need to be broken.

 

I win every time I discover and break a habit meant to disempower me.

 

 

 

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[Hunter]

  

 

Credit allows me to have a smaller "in case of emergency" fund.

 

I know it is there if my car or freezer breaks down unexpectedly or if I have unexpected medical expenses. Of course I want to pay off my debt as soon as possible, but having credit buys me time to withdraw from a money market fund or a savings account and transfer to a checking account.

 

This helps my irrational ptsd self to feel comfortable with a smaller checking account balance, especially during times of uneven income, i.e., waiting for a check that is expected quarterly rather than monthly, etc.

 

When I can do that, I can get more interest on what doesn't need to be in my immediately accessible emergency fund.

 

I'm probably not explaining it very well.

IEF, you explained it perfectly.

 

I also have found sometimes being able to charge things give me the ability to buy exactly what I want, instead of being forced to buy something only meant to tide me over. I have fewer nicer things when I have had more credit.

 

I can also get shopping over and done with while convenient and when what I want is plentiful.

 

 

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[luuknam]

PTSD is weird. So much of it is not what healthy people think. So much of it is peeling back the layers of brainwashing one layer at a time. Abusing takes time and energy. 

 

 

Oh, okay, you're singling out one specific kind of PTSD. So, not, for example, PTSD from a car accident where your brakes broke and you, your car, and your kids drove off a bridge and you watched your kids drown, which would be a completely different kind of PTSD. Though who knows, that could maybe lead to overthinking too.

[Ausmumof3]

I am not admitting to what I have bought recently :001_smile: and put on my charge cards, except the iPhone, which you all know about, because everytime I use tapatalk to post from that iPhone, it blabs that I have an iPhone to the whole freaking world. And I don't know how to turn it off.

 

I went months without a proper phone, knowing I was accessing services at agencies where I know some of the workers thought no one accessing services there should have a cell phone; not even the government provided tracphones known as Obamaphones, and those are not even what people think they are . Not all employees, just some. My finances are fixed now, but I went months where I fell throughout the system without enough funds to even have choices about right and wrong. And I refused to charge anything at that time, as I was going through an appeals process that would have made me homeless for the third time if I didn't win the case.

 

My social worker assures me I did NOTHING that could have prevented any of what happened. It was falling in holes in the system caused by the democrats and republicans trying to undue what the other has done. As Luuknam said, we have laws. Thank god we do, but there are ways to play with the laws and both sides are seriously at play. That play costs social workers a lot of money to keep disabled people out of homeless shelters. Despite housing being so much cheaper than homelessness, we are not doing a good job of keeping housed people housed with this foolishness. And then people just made mistakes and wanted to cover that up from their bosses and anyone that might advocate on my behalf.

 

So even when the threat of homelessness passed and my food stamps got turned back on, I paid off all my debt before I bought the iPhone. In the past when anyone caused a stink about my phone, my social worker called it a medical device for my memory loss. She had watched me deteriorate without one and it just pissed her off that it continued to be an issue. But I couldn't take the shaming, so I didn't replace it while I was so reliant on those agencies. What I learned in that period, is that things have changed since I last went without a phone. The issue of whether it is a needed medical device or not has been superseded by the fact that cell phones and wifi access have been declared utilities now. PEOPLE need to be hooked up in some way, or they cannot function independently, even if they are healthy. I have first hand experience struggling to pay my bills and be independent. It was buy a phone or have a social worker help me with things I am perfectly capable of doing but just didn't have the tools to do them.

 

So as I talk about boundaries. I have a boundary that I will not go without a cell phone again, and as long as Android is what Android is right now, I'm going to buy an Apple, even if an older Apple, but it is gong to be apple. I'm not going to flash it, and might even hide it at certain places, but I'm going to have it period. That is a personal boundary I have decided on.

 

A second boundary is my right to life. People who know me best know how much I have struggled with this in the past. After having to breathe in those dead body gas fumes for over a week, I understand that healthy humans are designed with something in their brain that usually prevents them from killing their own. There is some sort of pheromone action like the pheromone reactions that happen during sex and nursing. Something primal was triggered in my brain. "Thou shalt not kill," is based on human biology.

 

In the past, I had asked my social worker why it seems that people from all worldviews agreed on not instituting euthanasia of the disabled and she didn't have an answer. So many people seem to want disabled people gone that I didn't understand lack of action to make it happen. It is against the law to try and commit suicide and you will get locked up if anyone thinks you might try it, but some disabled people are continually given the message they don't have the right to life, and especially not to use any resources that could go to the more wanted and productive people.

 

Now I know. Those dead body gasses. I know. Don't kill. So I am here. That is now a boundary. And a really big one that bounds SO many other choices.

 

So after things settled down, and my food stamps were turned back on, my housing secured, and my rent dropped from 40% to the proper 30% of my income, I suddenly had a whole bunch of options.

 

My neighbor kept telling me that I either qualified or I didn't. That I didn't need to earn worker or donor validation for my lifestyle to apply. "You do you!" she kept telling me. "And then see what you qualify for or not. But you do YOU!"

 

Oooh, Im rambling and getting messy here.

 

I need to back up and reply to posts. But as to what I bought. Nope! :lol:

Hunter whatever else happens or is going on in your life I really really appreciate the threads and discussions you start here... So so much. Never doubt that you have value because here in this little corner of the universe you do so much.

[Hunter]

Oh, okay, you're singling out one specific kind of PTSD. So, not, for example, PTSD from a car accident where your brakes broke and you, your car, and your kids drove off a bridge and you watched your kids drown, which would be a completely different kind of PTSD. Though who knows, that could maybe lead to overthinking too.

The people in charge of diagnoses decided not to separate PTSD into PTSD and Complex PTSD. Yes, I am referring to what almost became called Complex PTSD. Long-term LIVING in abuse and being SURROUNDED by abuse is so different than a single event where people make a quick return to LIVE and be SURROUNDED by a healthy community.

 

Recovery from a single event is probable and quick when the person comes from and returns to a healthy environment.

 

Unfortunately, the complex kind is all too common, and maybe more common than the not complex kind. But we barely acknowledge it and don't even bother to name it. If we don't name it, it isn't real, right?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Hunter]

Hunter whatever else happens or is going on in your life I really really appreciate the threads and discussions you start here... So so much. Never doubt that you have value because here in this little corner of the universe you do so much.

Aww, thanks! I really do love you guys. And this thread was super helpful to me. I am no longer frozen. Not even close to frozen.

 

 

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[Hunter]

Right now, in the USA, recovery rates for PTSD are the same for people in recovery and out of recovery. Home recovery for PTSD recovery is as effective as interacting with professionals. Just doing nothing is as effective as interacting with professionals. For those of us that get worse and worse the more we interact with professionals, we get labels like "treatment resistant" and "not expected to recover".

 

Just like school doesn't work and is not an option for some, I believe that home recovery is a hopeful option for some people.

 

Just like homeschooling a severely learning disabled child, home recovery for Complex PTSD doesn't look so awesome when compared to non-disabled, healthy, gifted, higher-income people interacting with professionals, but if we plug along on our own road, trusting in the home process and ourselves, we will get where we can get, little by little, even at home, maybe only because we are home.

 

I'm not against schools or professional PTSD recovery in general for the masses. I just think some of us do better at home. Especially when the professionals don't even have a name for us other than "failed".

 

 

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[LMD]

I could read your posts all day long, over and over again, Hunter. It's something real and I'm sick unto death of fakery and bs. There's nourishment there, rather than empty adornments.

 

If the writings you're working on are ever available to purchase, I will be first in line.