Math--the word problem "problem"

[bethben]

Ultimately, this question is going to swing around to 7th grade math, so stick with me.

 

My daughter is going to enter 4th grade public school.  I was looking at questions for the test she will need to take and the majority of the thing is word problems.  Knowing her, she may not get one word problem correct.  She is excellent at math facts and math computations.  She can add any string of numbers together, subtract with borrowing, started multiplying double digit by double digit, and can rattle off division facts even though I just introduced them two days ago.  Word problems - the bane of her existence.  She just doesn't seem to get anything beyond a one step problem.  

 

Here's my question.  I know that's my daughter and there's not much I can do about it now.  I guess I am realizing that perhaps the math programs I am using do not do challenging enough word problems.  I have been using Saxon (with a side trip into MathUSee for dd this year) with my 6th grader.  I am wondering if the word problems are challenging enough.  On the other hand, my 16 year old who did Saxon throughout his homeschool math career, got an A in College Algebra and just finished College Pre-Calculus with some degree of success as a Sophomore in high school.

 

So, what math does an emphasis on word problems?  I am not looking for a public school curriculum that doesn't include teacher guides and answer keys. Ds will be doing pre-algebra again for 7th grade since his brain is still not ready for pre-algebra (he's starting to wake up to it just now).  

[strawberryjam]

Singapore Challenging Word Problems workbooks are great, you might want to use them one level below grade level. There are YouTube videos on how to teach them if you aren't familiar with the method.

[Ms.Ivy]

Singapore. But you kind of have to start from the bottom with it, so I doubt it would be fruitful for your family now.

 

As a supplement for word problems, Thinking Blocks on the desktop site version of MathPlayground.com is excellent (and free).

[jgrabuskie]

Sunshine Math for free by grade with answers

https://www.lcps.org/site/Default.aspx?PageID=96814 

 

 

[EKS]

I'd do the Singapore Challenging Word Problems books starting with the third grade level.  

 

 

[jgrabuskie]

Sunshine Math http://sunshinemathblog.blogspot.com/ 

[fralala]

I'd do the Singapore Challenging Word Problems books starting with the third grade level.  

 

+1. Also, I think doing the Bedtime Math books (which I prefer) and the app (which my kids love) together is a fun way to approach story problems.

 

How does your daughter do with reading comprehension in general?

 

How does she do with real-world math problems, not made-up story problems that are often illogical and at odds with the way kids actually experience the world? (The difference between, say, handing a kid a piece of paper and saying, hey, can you cut this into sixteen equal pieces for a game I'm making vs. having to accept the conceit of Word Problem Land where all pizzas are divided into equal fractions and a group of kids all eat equal portions.)

 

I guess what I think it would be helpful to find out is whether this is a problem of not understanding exactly how to apply the math she knows/not understanding how it relates to daily life vs. whether this is just a reading comprehension issue of getting caught up in what the problem is stating/asking.

[bethben]

I guess for 7th grade, I'm looking at something integrated into the math book.  Is there a homeschool math program (can be for public schools, but needs an answer key) that has great word problems integrated?

 

Also with my daughter, I think the issue with word problems is too many things thrown at her at once and being stubborn in drawing a picture out.  Also, some word problems try to throw in new cultural names or new words to expand vocabulary.  Those trip her up because then she focuses on what word that is and what it means.  Also, it is because of non-real world word problems.  When I was teaching her how to add and subtract, I would give her a simple word problem.  You have 3 cookies and give me 2.  How many do you have?  She couldn't figure it out with just the numbers.  But cookie problems?  No problem!  No one would have some of the convoluted questions that seem to appear on standardized tests!   

[8filltheheart]

I use the Hands On Equations Verbal Book with younger kids, but my dd has been using it with a 7th grader she has been tutoring and he really struggles with them, so I would assume for kids who need work with word problems, it would not be too easy.  It is nothing but word problems and has completely worked out solutions.  You don't need to buy anything other than the Verbal Book.  My kids hate manipulatives.  We just draw everything on a white board.

[SoCal_Bear]

Since you don't already use Singapore Math and given that she struggles with multi-step problems, I would steer you away from CWP and toward Fan Math's Process Skills in Problem Solving which is SM style word problems with explicit instruction. I love and use CWP, but there is no explicit instruction in there. I would think instruction in showing you step by step how to think and approach a problem with be super important for her. I think I suggest backing down to level 3 and work up from there. Generally speaking, this is the point at which, students really have to be using bar modeling to solve multi-step problems.


 

Edited May 11, 2017 by calbear

[SoCal_Bear]

No situation is unredeemable. However, it does mean that real effort is required though since you are at 7th grade. I would be doing a page or two of problems per day even on weekends and possibly more during the summer to catch up her problem solving skills ASAP. The goal is the catch her up to solid skills before she goes into algebra. The problem solving methods of Singapore are really well worth your time as they lay the groundwork for algebraic thinking. The KEY right now is also to do this together. Whenever I work with children in math circle tackling a problem they don't know how to start, I am careful not to show them how to get the right answer. I ask questions like "What do you know about this problem?" "What do you think you trying to answer?" For mulit-step problems, it's important to being to articulate what you need to know/find out to get you towards what you are trying to answer. I often ask them with their bar model or visual representation to label and explain and show me what the model is showing us. Often that will mean explain the mathematical relationship between the different knows. Sometimes I will ask "What do you think you need to do in order to get to figuring whatever unknown they are trying to get to?" Then I might ask, so is that a part or a whole? Or do you see equal parts? Do you think you need addition, subtraction, multiplication or division to get there? This type of process takes time and forces you to slow way down when working with your student. Even when they make mistakes, it is seriously important not to say "You did that wrong, let me show the "right" way." It's backing up with them doing the problem and helping them to learn from the mistake....usually they might have assumed something and if they can see why they assumed that and self-correct with prompting questions, you will get loads more learning and mileage from that.

[bethben]

I guess I've not made myself clear.   My daughter who will be in 4th is going into the public school.  I'm happy she's able to get her facts down.  Math has always been hard for her and it's only now that I've been able to get any progress from her.  

 

My son will be going into 7th and I want to make sure he has good word problems integrated into his curriculum.  He does Saxon word problems just fine.  But are they enough?  I guess that is my question..

[Miss Tick]

MEP is also free and has a lot of word problems, although it can be a hassle to find a particular type of problem.

 

Off to check out Sunshine Math!

 

ETA Is Saxon enough for your ds? Well, now you're getting specific. Anecdotally, your thread has already revealed the best answer you will get, which is "sometimes" If you are looking for additional radiance your best bet is to show him word problems from some of these other sources and sew how he does.

Edited May 11, 2017 by SusanC

[blondeviolin]

I'd add in some Singapore CWP or Fan Math for the 4th grader. My soon-to-be-4th grader is working through CWP 3 this summer. My oldest is doing Saxon and her understanding of word problems thus far is fine.

[Farrar]

What level of math is your 7th grader using? Of the pre-algebra programs, I looked at, I thought Dolciani had the best word problems by far and that they were excellently presented and incorporated into the text. But if he's not to pre-algebra, obviously that won't do.

 

Math Mammoth also has word problems well incorporated and has a good emphasis on them.

 

For your third grader... I disagree strongly with the advice to use the Singapore Challenging Word Problems with a kid who is greatly word problem challenged. I'll second Bedtime Math as a much gentler way to work on this skill on the side without overwhelming her while you focus on the math facts.