Penn State Hazing death

[unsinkable]

Why didn't they help him? The details are making me sick. Why? They just let him die.

 

I can't link. Stories are everywhere.

 

:crying:

[OneStepAtATime]

Heartbreaking and a total waste of a person's life.  

[Harriet Vane]

:crying:

[Miss Peregrine]

I feel sick. :(

[unsinkable]

He probably wanted to have all these friends and a place to belong and they let him die.

[school17777]

I can't even read the report. My ds' roommate was friends with him from back home. The three used to hang out at each other's apartments.

[Junie]

I can't even read the report. My ds' roommate was friends with him from back home. The three used to hang out at each other's apartments.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  I am so sorry.

[Mimm]

So horrible. :(

[Pink and Green Mom]

I can't even read the report. My ds' roommate was friends with him from back home. The three used to hang out at each other's apartments.

 

I went to the same high school as he did.  I cannot imagine what your son and his friends must be going through.  :grouphug:

[Guest]

I just don't get what is up with the drinking culture on campus. It's just so stupid and pointless. I'm not much of a drinker but I can understand some light social drinking. But not underage, and not until you're falling down drunk. Ugh.

 

His poor family :(

[Guest]

With all of the frat horror stories (and probably sororities too and I've just missed them) in the last decade I honestly have to wonder how anyone can sleep at night if their son is in one. I don't think I could. And that's just the stories that make the news and aren't covered up.  My nightmare would be my child joining a frat, or participating in any of their activities. Such a waste, so sad. 

[gingersmom]

I listened to a Nancy Grace podcast about it and started crying.

 

Do people not discuss drinking with their children?

 

Do they not discuss right and wrong behaviour? Moral responsibility?

[EmseB]

I have read multiple stories. I have been to parties sort of like this. I know why they didn't help him.  Because people pass out drinking all the time and look exactly the same as if they fell down a flight of stairs and no one thinks it's a problem because they just get up in the morning feeling horrible.  It would be really, really difficult for other extremely drunk people to know how injured he was.  Since he was underage, everyone probably thought they were doing him a favor by not getting medical personnel involved because that could lead to the authorities getting involved and the guy getting cited.  They were protecting the frat, but also thought they were protecting their friend and taking care of him until he slept it off.

[Junie]

I have read multiple stories. I have been to parties sort of like this. I know why they didn't help him.  Because people pass out drinking all the time and look exactly the same as if they fell down a flight of stairs and no one thinks it's a problem because they just get up in the morning feeling horrible.  It would be really, really difficult for other extremely drunk people to know how injured he was.  Since he was underage, everyone probably thought they were doing him a favor by not getting medical personnel involved because that could lead to the authorities getting involved and the guy getting cited.  They were protecting the frat, but also thought they were protecting their friend and taking care of him until he slept it off.

 

Completely untrue.  They were corroborating to keep themselves out of trouble.    

[Guest]

I have read multiple stories. I have been to parties sort of like this. I know why they didn't help him. Because people pass out drinking all the time and look exactly the same as if they fell down a flight of stairs and no one thinks it's a problem because they just get up in the morning feeling horrible. It would be really, really difficult for other extremely drunk people to know how injured he was. Since he was underage, everyone probably thought they were doing him a favor by not getting medical personnel involved because that could lead to the authorities getting involved and the guy getting cited. They were protecting the frat, but also thought they were protecting their friend and taking care of him until he slept it off.

This was so far beyond drunk idiots making a mistake. There are recovered deleted texts putting together a story about finding him behind a dumpster.

[school17777]

With all of the frat horror stories (and probably sororities too and I've just missed them) in the last decade I honestly have to wonder how anyone can sleep at night if their son is in one. I don't think I could. And that's just the stories that make the news and aren't covered up. My nightmare would be my child joining a frat, or participating in any of their activities. Such a waste, so sad.

My ds is not in a frat, but he goes to the parties. I don't sleep well. It is scary.

 

His friend called me one Sunday morning before 8 am and it took my heart hours to calm down. The call was not about my ds at all, but he wanted to ask me something and he is used to waking up at 4 am for work so he figured he waited long enough.

[EmseB]

This was so far beyond drunk idiots making a mistake. There are recovered deleted texts putting together a story about finding him behind a dumpster.

Yes, after the fact, unless I'm reading something incorrectly. I only read one timeline, so I'm willing to admit I may have the timeline wrong. I am sure that in the morning they all realized the severity, and instead of being honest, they cowardly decided to try to cover their butts.

 

Look, landing on top of a guy passed out drunk on a couch at a frat party isn't that remarkable. I really highly doubt those guys knew he had an internal injury at that point. Not everyone there could have known he wasn't just sleeping it off. That's one of the reasons why parties like this are so dangerous -- no one knows you really need help until it's too late.

 

I'm not saying they aren't morally depraved for what happened. I don't think it was just drunk idiots making a mistake. I'm saying that the way he looked and acted was probably not all that different than many passed out drunk people in many frat houses across the country on any given pledge night. Of course most of them haven't fallen down a flight of stairs, or maybe they did and lived to tell about it. Getting that drunk is pretty common. Making pledges drink to the point of non-responsivenes is pretty common. It is a sick, dangerous cultural phenomenon. And it is embodied by the later attempts to lie about where the victim was as he was dying.

Edited May 11, 2017 by EmseB

[Corraleno]

I have read multiple stories. I have been to parties sort of like this. I know why they didn't help him.  Because people pass out drinking all the time and look exactly the same as if they fell down a flight of stairs and no one thinks it's a problem because they just get up in the morning feeling horrible.  It would be really, really difficult for other extremely drunk people to know how injured he was.  Since he was underage, everyone probably thought they were doing him a favor by not getting medical personnel involved because that could lead to the authorities getting involved and the guy getting cited.  They were protecting the frat, but also thought they were protecting their friend and taking care of him until he slept it off.

 

He fell down and hit his head six different times over the course of nearly 12 hours, and had visible injuries to his head and abdomen. Half an hour after the first of the six falls, more than 11 hours before he died, at least one person (Kordel Davis) recognized that Piazza was seriously injured and needed help. Of course no one realized he was going to die, but he was clearly seriously injured and in pain — at one point the poor kid was lying on the floor in a fetal position, clutching his abdomen and moaning in pain from a ruptured spleen and fractured skull. The guys who refused to call 911 were 100% trying to cover their own asses, with zero concern for Piazza.

 

The president and VP of the frat texted each other before the hazing event that "if anything goes wrong with the pledges, then both of us are f***ed." I hope they both go to prison for manslaughter, that at the very least the other guys involved are expelled from the university, and that the financial cost to Penn State is so huge they genuinely crack down on this insane drinking/hazing frat culture. 

 

 

[bzymom]

The lack of humanity is staggering.

 

I cannot believe all of these "kids" are devoid of common sense, compassion and conscience, so I try to imagine the mob mentality that took over. I just cannot.

 

The texts are devastating.

 

And I keep trying to wrap my head around the idea that not one person did the right thing. Not.one. Even if they did not want to take the heat from the others, any one of them could have called 911 and reported it from another room.

 

Charges are appropriate. Jail is appropriate. This was not an accident. It was a conspiracy of silence.

[EmseB]

He fell down and hit his head six different times over the course of nearly 12 hours, and had visible injuries to his head and abdomen. Half an hour after the first of the six falls, more than 11 hours before he died, at least one person (Kordel Davis) recognized that Piazza was seriously injured and needed help. Of course no one realized he was going to die, but he was clearly seriously injured and in pain — at one point the poor kid was lying on the floor in a fetal position, clutching his abdomen and moaning in pain from a ruptured spleen and fractured skull. The guys who refused to call 911 were 100% trying to cover their own asses, with zero concern for Piazza.

 

The president and VP of the frat texted each other before the hazing event that "if anything goes wrong with the pledges, then both of us are f***ed." I hope they both go to prison for manslaughter, that at the very least the other guys involved are expelled from the university, and that the financial cost to Penn State is so huge they genuinely crack down on this insane drinking/hazing frat culture.

Oh, I think the charge should be murder. I think manslaughter is light. But, yes, my point was that no one thought he was going to die because what happened to Piazza (drinking to the point of falling down all over the place and getting injured at a party where everyone is drinking in excess and probably laughing at the one who can't hold his liquor) is not that uncommon. The severity of his injuries was uncommon. But my guess is that up until they found him in the basement in the morning they still thought he might be ok and could get help when he was sober. And the reason they didn't get help was to avoid getting in trouble. And maybe they didn't care about him getting in trouble specifically, but going for help would have been considered narc'ing on everyone. Which, again, is why these types of things are so horrible and dangerous. My original response in the thread wasn't meant to excuse their actions, but again, this is all pretty common except for how badly he was actually hurt.

 

I just...have been to parties like this, maybe not as extreme with the forced drinking...but what happened does not surprise me. In fact, thinking about it, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often because I'm sure things are much worse than when I was a young adult.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Oh, I think the charge should be murder. I think manslaughter is light. But, yes, my point was that no one thought he was going to die because what happened to Piazza (drinking to the point of falling down all over the place and getting injured at a party where everyone is drinking in excess and probably laughing at the one who can't hold his liquor) is not that uncommon. The severity of his injuries was uncommon. But my guess is that up until they found him in the basement in the morning they still thought he might be ok and could get help when he was sober. And the reason they didn't get help was to avoid getting in trouble. And maybe they didn't care about him getting in trouble specifically, but going for help would have been considered narc'ing on everyone. Which, again, is why these types of things are so horrible and dangerous. My original response in the thread wasn't meant to excuse their actions, but again, this is all pretty common except for how badly he was actually hurt.

 

I just...have been to parties like this, maybe not as extreme with the forced drinking...but what happened does not surprise me. In fact, thinking about it, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often because I'm sure things are much worse than when I was a young adult.

 

You are being inconsistent.  If you believe the scenario you described, then a murder charge is simply not warranted. 

 

I believe PA requires proof of malice for a murder charge, which may be tough to prove here.  A manslaughter (either voluntary or involuntary - I haven't looked at this enough to hold an opinion as to which) charge looks about right.

[hopskipjump]

I can't make it through the articles... it's too agonizing. :crying:

 

"Regular" old hazing makes me ill. Even "baby" hazing makes me ill. I cannot fathom how any human being can a) think to treat someone in that manner or b) volunteer and sacrifice their dignity to be hazed in order to join a fraternity (not speaking of this situation, obviously... it's beyond tragic... I'm talking about the "light" hazing where they dress up like babies, or allow themselves to be walked like dogs for a day, etc).

 

This particular type of scenario shows a lack of humanity that I can't wrap my brain around. I can't believe (I CAN believe, but I don't WANT TO believe) that this kind of thing is happening now, in 2017. The fact that not one single person took it upon themselves to do the right thing in this terrible situation staggers me.

[elizahelen]

The worst response to me is the weaselly Penn State apology. "The alleged details in the grand jury presentment, which suggest the inhumane treatment of a student forced through hazing to consume dangerous amounts of alcohol and endure hours of suffering, are sickening and difficult to understand." Um, no. I'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY what is happening on your campus every weekend. Actually, every night that is not Monday. The double speak and hypocrisy of most major school campuses is shameful!

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[EmseB]

You are being inconsistent. If you believe the scenario you described, then a murder charge is simply not warranted.

I am not a lawyer. I'm sure manslaughter is what the prosecutor thinks they will be able to convict them on.

 

But, regardless, I think what happened, as I described it and as is written about in the timeline I read should be considered murder. I am fine with you thinking I'm inconsistent by whatever metric you're measuring my thoughts. Those boys genuinely thought "backpacking" this kid would save his life and keep them out of trouble. But they killed him by doing so. They took his life. I highly doubt the people who refused to call an ambulance and threatened others not to do so thought Piazza would die before he got sober enough to get help, but in my mind, again not using any kind of legal argument here, in my mind that's malice enough to be called murder because he did die.

 

If the legal system needs to parse out manslaughter, okay. But what those boys did was murder. Treating someone that way may not legally qualify as intentional malice, but morally it sure does. To me. And if you disagree or think I'm being inconsistent, I'm fine with that.

[EmseB]

And this culture is considered part of the "college experience" at many schools. Even if you got rid of the Greek system, the binge drinking party culture is not going away.

 

My point with my original comments was not that this was excusable or some innocent mistake. My point was that this type of thing, minus the serious injury, happens every weekend at many campuses. There are always college kids drinking like this. It happens so often that these boys were oblivious to the fact that they lost their basic human decency in the quest for a good time. I hope those boys' parents realize that it could have been any one of their sons tortured and dying in that frat house instead of someone else's kid. I hope they don't make excuses.

[happypamama]

He fell down and hit his head six different times over the course of nearly 12 hours, and had visible injuries to his head and abdomen. Half an hour after the first of the six falls, more than 11 hours before he died, at least one person (Kordel Davis) recognized that Piazza was seriously injured and needed help. Of course no one realized he was going to die, but he was clearly seriously injured and in pain — at one point the poor kid was lying on the floor in a fetal position, clutching his abdomen and moaning in pain from a ruptured spleen and fractured skull. The guys who refused to call 911 were 100% trying to cover their own asses, with zero concern for Piazza.

 

The president and VP of the frat texted each other before the hazing event that "if anything goes wrong with the pledges, then both of us are f***ed." I hope they both go to prison for manslaughter, that at the very least the other guys involved are expelled from the university, and that the financial cost to Penn State is so huge they genuinely crack down on this insane drinking/hazing frat culture. 

 

 

One would hope.  But given that drinking has been a huge issue there for many, many years, I wouldn't hold my breath.  

 

That poor kid.  So horribly wrong.

[Liz CA]

At my dh's alma mater, there was a similar incident. A young man died during an initiation into some frat. All fraternities (not sure about sororities) were suspended for several years if I remember correctly. They had to disband and there were simply no frats to join for a few years. I have not checked recently; perhaps they have been reinstated.

Just thinking out loud...I know that drinking in and of itself has little to do with frats but it seems that many frats are the base of such activities and peer pressure seems to be immense - especially to young freshmen who want to fit in.

I did read in the article that this particular fraternity is now banned. I wonder if this is enough, though.

My thoughts are with the parents.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Liz CA

[winterbaby]

Science tells us that the brain isn't fully mature until 25 but we have this practice of geographically and socially isolating people well short of that in large groups to supervise each other. It is a surprise bad incidents don't crop up more often. I've even read that there's an unreported ongoing problem with people falling out of upper story frat house windows to death or injury. Of course these boys bear moral responsibility but at that age, the ability to distinguish "what I should do" from "what the group seems to think I should do" is not highly developed. It would have to be a very special situation for my child to do anything but commute to college. It's not worth it.

[snowbeltmom]

With all of the frat horror stories (and probably sororities too and I've just missed them) in the last decade I honestly have to wonder how anyone can sleep at night if their son is in one. I don't think I could. And that's just the stories that make the news and aren't covered up.  My nightmare would be my child joining a frat, or participating in any of their activities. Such a waste, so sad. 

 

My son is in a frat, and it is nothing like the frats that are covered in the news.  His frat is very involved in volunteering in the community and does not have a culture of drinking.  The kids in the frats at his school compete each year for the honor of  winning the "living group with the highest gpa" award. (don't think I have the title of the award correct.) 

 

You won't read about these types of frats in the media.  Just like homeschooling, usually only the negative stories get reported.

 

[Guest]

The way I see it, Penn State has 2 choices, neither of which they will do.

 

1)Zero tolerance-underage drinking, expelled. Serving minors, expelled. Public intoxication, expelled.

 

2)No questions asked-you have to call 911 for a passed out drunk, the school will issue no punishment. You can still be charged with a crime but the school will take no action against you.

 

What the school will do is quietly settle the lawsuits, take zero accountability and move on.

[QueenCat]

I'm glad that charges have been filed. Too many times things that would be a crime in any other setting have been dismissed as "just" hazing gone wrong.

 

The key is beyond charges being filed......... it's about the charges sticking and getting a conviction. I think we will see very minor consequences as most of these  young men are white, and from appearances, will get the benefits of white privilege.

[school17777]

The way I see it, Penn State has 2 choices, neither of which they will do.

 

1)Zero tolerance-underage drinking, expelled. Serving minors, expelled. Public intoxication, expelled.

 

2)No questions asked-you have to call 911 for a passed out drunk, the school will issue no punishment. You can still be charged with a crime but the school will take no action against you.

 

What the school will do is quietly settle the lawsuits, take zero accountability and move on.

You are wrong. There already is a policy for alcohol violations and it is enforced. Penn State has not swept this under the rug and moved on.

[maize]

The way I see it, Penn State has 2 choices, neither of which they will do.

 

1)Zero tolerance-underage drinking, expelled. Serving minors, expelled. Public intoxication, expelled.

 

2)No questions asked-you have to call 911 for a passed out drunk, the school will issue no punishment. You can still be charged with a crime but the school will take no action against you.

 

What the school will do is quietly settle the lawsuits, take zero accountability and move on.

It sounds like the frat house is off campus though. Seems to me that local law enforcement would be responsible for stepping up intervention?

 

The university can certainly expel people, but their ability to legally intervene off campus is limited.

[snowbeltmom]

It sounds like the frat house is off campus though. Seems to me that local law enforcement would be responsible for stepping up intervention?

 

The university can certainly expel people, but their ability to legally intervene off campus is limited.

 

:iagree:

 

I wonder if part of the allure of binge drinking is the fact that it is forbidden?  Do other countries that do not have these age restrictions on consuming alcohol have these issues on their college campuses?

 

I used to go with my English cousins when I was in middle school to their village pub.  They were served beer at the pub and would also have a glass a wine at home with dinner.  It was not viewed as any big deal, and none of them have grown up to abuse alcohol.

 

I wonder if the US would have less alcohol abuse if we didn't have an age restriction on alcohol consumption?

 

[poppy]

Penn State greek is allllll about drinking , are you kidding me? I went to lots of frat parties there 20-25 years ago ---- they were the same parties those guys dads had been to --- the same parties those guys sent their own kids too. The donors expect it to stay the Penn State they've always known. They send their kids there to join frats, make those connections, have a good time.... play hard, learn  well, grow up, it's the Penn State way. .  

I'm not defending it, but, I lived it and it's a very entrenched subculture going back generations.  The appetite to get rid of it, among people who've been through it, is very low. This is obvioulsy a tragedy, anyone would agree, but given HOW much these guys drink every week-- in so many colleges across the US -- it's just amazing it doesn't happen more often.

 

 I can see how this started as very drunk guys mistaking the seriousness of the situation,   then it spiraling to covering their asses.  It is a very very ugly story.   I'm so sorry for this boy and his family. 

 

 

My son is in a frat, and it is nothing like the frats that are covered in the news.  His frat is very involved in volunteering in the community and does not have a culture of drinking.  The kids in the frats at his school compete each year for the honor of  winning the "living group with the highest gpa" award. (don't think I have the title of the award correct.) 

 

You won't read about these types of frats in the media.  Just like homeschooling, usually only the negative stories get reported.
 

 

Alpha Phi Omega, right? My husband was in that one.  I think the fact that it's technically a frat is kind of an anomaly. 

[maize]

:iagree:

 

I wonder if part of the allure of binge drinking is the fact that it is forbidden? Do other countries that do not have these age restrictions on consuming alcohol have these issues on their college campuses?

 

I used to go with my English cousins when I was in middle school to their village pub. They were served beer at the pub and would also have a glass a wine at home with dinner. It was not viewed as any big deal, and none of them have grown up to abuse alcohol.

 

I wonder if the US would have less alcohol abuse if we didn't have an age restriction on alcohol consumption?

 

I know some of our European boardies have suggested that the culture in their native countries where kids are introduced to responsible social drinking at home is healthier.

 

At the same time, I spent my high school years in a country where kids could legally purchase and consume wine and beer starting at age 14 and binge drinking was a problem among my peers, so...I don't know.

 

I didn't and don't drink at all for religious reasons, but since most young adults don't have that particular incentive it really seems that some kind of cultural and/or regulation change is needed.

[snowbeltmom]

Penn State greek is allllll about drinking , are you kidding me? I went to lots of frat parties there 20-25 years ago ---- they were the same parties those guys dads had been to --- the same parties those guys sent their own kids too. The donors expect it to stay the Penn State they've always known. They send their kids there to join frats, make those connections, have a good time.... play hard, learn  well, grow up, it's the Penn State way. .  

 

I'm not defending it, but, I lived it and it's a very entrenched subculture going back generations.  The appetite to get rid of it, among people who've been through it, is very low. This is obvioulsy a tragedy, anyone would agree, but given HOW much these guys drink every week-- in so many colleges across the US -- it's just amazing it doesn't happen more often.

 

 I can see how this started as very drunk guys mistaking the seriousness of the situation,   then it spiraling to covering their asses.  It is a very very ugly story.   I'm so sorry for this boy and his family. 

 

 

 

Alpha Phi Omega, right? My husband was in that one.  I think the fact that it's technically a frat is kind of an anomaly. 

 

Nope, ZBT.  I am not even sure what it stands for.  I think it might be Zeta Beta Tau? 

 

[winterbaby]

Even if your kid is in a good frat, how much control does one have over that choice or over the general heavy party atmosphere around the process of students and frats choosing each other? It seems like in sending one's kids off to these big schools parents basically have to bet the upbringing they've provided (which is essentially 25% incomplete, in terms of brain development) against a toxic atmosphere. It's a very ugly survival of the fittest. And this thread hasn't even gotten into the implications about what "party" culture can mean for girls specifically. I really question our cultural norm of independence at 18; and in light of the student loan crisis and depressed job prospects for millennials, the value of the degrees these kids are leaving their homes to pursue. I know a lot of families on here are very intentional about their kids higher education; I'm not talking about that. But I question just how much of economic or personal value can be going on simultaneous with constantly drinking oneself sick.

[Arcadia]

I wonder if part of the allure of binge drinking is the fact that it is forbidden? Do other countries that do not have these age restrictions on consuming alcohol have these issues on their college campuses?

My home country's legal drinking age is 18. There is binge drinking going on. The only difference is that anyone would call the hall masters or resident fellows or even the non emergency ambulance line if someone is pass out drunk (versus puking like crazy drunk). Since it is legal, the only rules anyone broke was no alcohol in dorms/hostels which would get someone a warning from the dorm admin and worse case (repeat offenders) an expulsion from the dorm.

 

There are under 18 undergrads in my alma mater's campus but rare. First time underage drinking isn't a serious legal offence and the person offering the underage person a drink carries the higher responsibility. So it was okay to get medical help for underage drinkers without getting the underage drinker into hot legal soup.

 

There is ragging (similar to hazing) going on in university dorms even though it is forbidden when I was there in the early 90s and even now. It is just lots milder than during my parents generation.

 

ETA:

Driving age was 17. We were reminded that "friends don't let friends drive drunk" and to always have at least one safe driver for a party where drinks are on the menu. There are people who turn 18 in the senior year of high school so they could legally drink and be driving to high school.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[mom2scouts]

I live in a college town and the amount of drinking done by college students is concerning. Many of the frats/sororities have their own off campus housing and seem to spend a lot of time having parties. I saw this story and it made me sad and angry, but not at all surprised.

[Laura Corin]

The UK, drinking age 16 with a meal, 18 without, definitely has binge drinking but I don't know how it compares.  Two small differences: I don't know of universities that have fraternities/sororities in the same way, although there are small 'clubs' in some of the older universities that have poor reputations; because most people can drink legally before they arrive at university, there isn't any impetus to hide drinking and be scared of calling the police.  Another consideration, is that few students have cars at university, so drink driving is not usually an issue.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Laura Corin

[winterbaby]

The 21 drinking age is relatively recent. I think it was put in partly in response to these cultural issues we have around drinking rather than being the cause of them.

[Word Nerd]

I can't even read the report. My ds' roommate was friends with him from back home. The three used to hang out at each other's apartments.

 

:grouphug:

[Cindy in FL.]

Could you please link the articles or other sources for "and from appearances, will get the benefits of white privilege"?

 

The key is beyond charges being filed......... it's about the charges sticking and getting a conviction. I think we will see very minor consequences as most of these young men are white, and from appearances, will get the benefits of white privilege.

[QueenCat]

Could you please link the articles or other sources for "and from appearances, will get the benefits of white privilege"?

 

 

Simply what I saw while I was watching the news. The young men and their parents going into the court building and some of the early reports. And NO, I do NOT have to go back and find what station it was on and see if I can then find links to the reports I saw with my own eyes in order to justify my educated opinion.

[Cindy in FL.]

Wow, interesting reaction. Nothing that I had read or seen yet had that flavor, so I was simply asking a question so that I could look into it further.

 

Simply what I saw while I was watching the news. The young men and their parents going into the court building and some of the early reports. And NO, I do NOT have to go back and find what station it was on and see if I can then find links to the reports I saw with my own eyes in order to justify my educated opinion.

[Guest]

From the articles it does not sound like Penn State has provided alcohol ed to their students. At my son's college, the U makes it clear that they want the phone call. They don't expect all of the students to be first respomders, but they do expect the campus emergency number to be called if any pass out on campus and they expect 911 to be called if off campus. They were very clear that no one should walk by and assume that friends were taking care of a person passed out. The local hospital is set up for stomach pumping..lots of freshmen don't know their limits and find out the hard way.

[Guest]

I have a friend whose adult children are often pass-out drunk. It boggles my mind how that is fun in any way.

[Cindy in FL.]

I read the Grand Jury Final Charges and Presentment and wept. How heartbreaking for Timothy Piazza to go through that and for his parents to know that was how he spent the last night of his life. From the report it did not seem like the Frat brothers running the show were incapable of determining that Timothy was in trouble and getting him the help that he needed. Even when they were confronted by others telling them that they needed to call 911, they simply accused people of over reacting. They just didn't have common human decency, and neither did those who "attempted" to persuade them to get help, and then didn't have the b*lls to stand up to them and make the call themselves.

 

There are no excuses for any of those involved and I hope that it is dealt with appropriately so that this culture does not continue. Disgusting.

[LMD]

what an awful story, that poor boy and his family.

 

here we have a legal drinking age of 18, there's plenty of teenage binge drinking and all that goes with it.

 

Dh fell off a roof at one party, thankfully he was fine. I know of a couple of pass outs, and one stomach pumping - I wasn't at that particular party. Also, gatecrashers, broken windows/furniture, vomiting, minor injuries, cops breaking the party up...

we were dumb dumb dumb, but lucky.

And those were all underage parties, most of us were over parties like that by 18 when it was more fun to be able to drive (no one drank and drove in my group.)

 

I don't think the legal age makes a whole lot of difference. We don't have fraternities here either, to my knowledge.