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Vax'ed v. non-vax'ed homeschoolers "study" shared in my local hs group


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but promptly deleted by alert admins. But too late, I'd already seen it and clicked. I'm furious. The Sesame Street article, especially, has me seeing red.

I'm sharing this for two reasons:

1. Does anyone know who's behind it?
2. I would like to know how to uncouple mythology about medicine from homeschooling. Today, if possible. OVER it.

 

http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/vaccinated-vs.-unvaccinated-guess-who-is-sicker

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A friend of mine who doesn't homeschool posted that link on her Facebook.  I just laughed.  My oldest had a reaction to her 4 month shots and we were advised to delay and be slow with vaccines for all future kids (and skip a couple altogether for her).  She's my sickest kid, but it's mostly genetic disorders.  When my youngest was born, he started getting vaccinated at 2 months one a month and he is one of my two healthiest kids.  He doesn't even have allergies (though he does have ADHD lol).  My 3rd didn't have any shots until he was 4 or 5 because he was diagnosed with some really bad allergies at 4 months old and got croup constantly so his ped looking at that plus his sister's reaction wanted to wait until he was a bit older (he is also sick a lot because he inherited my immune deficiency).  My 2nd is fully vaxed on the slow, delayed schedule his ped wanted and he's my other really healthy one.  So my house's "study" (which is probably worth about as much as that one), is that it is seriously random and has zero to do with vaccines and a whole lot to do with genetics.

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Here's the study: http://oatext.com/pdf/JTS-3-186.pdf

 

I'm curious about one thing.  How often do the unvaxed people go to the doctor?  Among non-vaccinators I know, there is a high percentage who choose to use alternative medicine and only take their kids to the doctor when they are really sick.  This would mean that their 6-12 year olds would have a much lower chance to be diagnosed with anything (like allergies... because you cannot tell me that of 261 unvaxed kids only 18 kids have allergies).  The non-vaccinating population tends to just be different from the vaccinating population (not counting those who don't vax for medical reasons).

 

ETA: Yup, that's addressed.  57% of vaccinated kids and 37% of unvaccinated kids have seen a doctor in the previous 12 months for a well visit.

Edited by Butter
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The study was funded by Generation Rescue (of which Jenny McCarthy is on their board and we all know her opinion on vaccines) and ChildrenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s Medical Safety Research Institute (which funds vaccine research and appears to be generally anti-vax).

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I've seen it a few times.

 

People who maintain a link between vaccines and autism are people I do not have time to listen to.

 

I know a number of families who are very into alternative medicine who have kids that definitely have unmet developmental healthcare needs.

 

That someone hasn't been diagnosed with something doesn't mean that they don't have it.

Edited by LucyStoner
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Re autism: my feeling about that, as well as ADHD, has always been that it wasn't diagnosed forty years ago. Kids were labeled as "Bad" or "odd" or whatever, but not formally diagnosed. Many were diagnosed with an intellectual disability when they were actually autistic. So I'm not convinced there's actually an increase in many of these things.

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Re autism: my feeling about that, as well as ADHD, has always been that it wasn't diagnosed forty years ago. Kids were labeled as "Bad" or "odd" or whatever, but not formally diagnosed. Many were diagnosed with an intellectual disability when they were actually autistic. So I'm not convinced there's actually an increase in many of these things.

 

I agree with you.  I think it will be many years before we have good documentation on the history of developmental disabilities. 

 

Disabled children just received the right to an appropriate education in 1975 with the passage of IDEA. Prior to that, children with disabilities were largely "invisible." Since IDEA, one of the requirements for an IEP is an appropriate diagnosis, so practitioners of all specialties and at all levels have had to take great care to conduct thorough evaluations and to document their findings. Many years ago, a concerned mother may have been told by the doctor or teacher that yes, her child is "slow" or "a bit different" or "full of energy" but there would have been no need to pursue testing and diagnosis. In fact, such a conversation may have not even been noted in the child's medical record or school record. 

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We selective-delayed. All of my boys who have been diagnosed with asthma, ADHD or high functioning autism, received those dx'es before they'd received a single vaccination. (They had no worsening of symptoms after being vaccinated.)

 

These people seem to despise children who have challenges. Seriously, having a problem with a muppet. My eldest son, a college student who is on the spectrum, was beyond delighted over that muppet...he would have liked to have "met" her when he was a kid.

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I agree with you. I think it will be many years before we have good documentation on the history of developmental disabilities.

 

Disabled children just received the right to an appropriate education in 1975 with the passage of IDEA. Prior to that, children with disabilities were largely "invisible." Since IDEA, one of the requirements for an IEP is an appropriate diagnosis, so practitioners of all specialties and at all levels have had to take great care to conduct thorough evaluations and to document their findings. Many years ago, a concerned mother may have been told by the doctor or teacher that yes, her child is "slow" or "a bit different" or "full of energy" but there would have been no need to pursue testing and diagnosis. In fact, such a conversation may have not even been noted in the child's medical record or school record.

I remember many kids in my class that I'm sure would be diagnosed with ADHD now. Back then they were paddled by the principal and labeled as bad. The kids with any sort of disability were sent off to a special school. The kids in quote special education quote were very obviously disabled.

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Re autism: my feeling about that, as well as ADHD, has always been that it wasn't diagnosed forty years ago. Kids were labeled as "Bad" or "odd" or whatever, but not formally diagnosed. Many were diagnosed with an intellectual disability when they were actually autistic. So I'm not convinced there's actually an increase in many of these things.

My father falls into this group. Born in 1943, it was treated as a behaviorial and discipline problem. This didn't work very well and he ended up a pretty unhappy adult with a mix of stronger and weaker coping and adaptive skills.

Edited by LucyStoner
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Oh, my FIL for sure has mild autism. All his life, people said he was "different" because he was the only child of older parents.

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A pilot study of 666 homeschooled six to 12-year-olds from four American states published on April 27th in the Journal of Translational Sciences

Well, that explains it: the Mark of the Beast. The sick children have received the Mark of the Beast. I think THAT is what is proven by the study.

 

 

 

 

 

Ă°Å¸Ëœ

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About many of these diagnoses, only parents who are more into tradional medicine may get these diagnoses, especially in homeschool families.  I doubt that families that don't like going to doctors ever get their children diagnosed with ADHD, for example.  Some of these things are certainly just a matter of diagnosis.  My children to the doctor so when we all got mycoplasmic pneumonia, it was finally diagnosed.  I could see people who don't take their children to doctors never getting treatment for this.  What would be interesting to find out is how many children of those who eschew traditional medicine end up with heart damage from untreated strep throats.

 

In my family, there is absolutely no reason to think adhd, dyslexia or allergies had anything to do with vaccinations.  The children's grandfather who was born in the 20's which was before widespread vaccination, was adhd,  Their unlce was dyslexic and he was born before so many of the vaccines were occuring early.  Both my mom and dad had allergies and again that was before vaccinations.  This whole study is idiotic.

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I think quill nailed it. :D

 

There is going to be a bru ha ha this 2 inter at the family Christmas. One niece qnd nephew are expecting their first. She is a nursing student, he is a fully vaxed army soldier, and in their area three babies died of pertussis last year so the rule is - no vax, no touching our child. I have no issue with that at all.

 

But, nephew's sister and mom of two, is totally anti vax, anti doc, and meds, anti....ya...very extreme. So her kids are not vaxed and she and the two girls have both had suspected cases of pertussis which of course was never officially diqgnosed. The six year old, as best we can tell, has damaged lungs. At any rate, she if furious that her brother plans on refusing her access to the baby, and no little cousins touching etc.

 

Really not looking forward to the drama.

 

Niece is convinced she can cure steep throat with essential oils and chicken soup, and is always lecturing the family on the dangers of modern medicine. Grrrr

 

Really not looking forward to Christmas. If it were not to be the first since father figure passed away so mom being pretty emotional, we would go skiing and be no shows.

 

As for the study, as near as I can tell it was pretty poorly designed and executed even without the added bonus of tattoo of the beast so think it is bunk which should be disregarded.

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About many of these diagnoses, only parents who are more into tradional medicine may get these diagnoses, especially in homeschool families. I doubt that families that don't like going to doctors ever get their children diagnosed with ADHD, for example. Some of these things are certainly just a matter of diagnosis. My children to the doctor so when we all got mycoplasmic pneumonia, it was finally diagnosed. I could see people who don't take their children to doctors never getting treatment for this. What would be interesting to find out is how many children of those who eschew traditional medicine end up with heart damage from untreated strep throats.

 

In my family, there is absolutely no reason to think adhd, dyslexia or allergies had anything to do with vaccinations. The children's grandfather who was born in the 20's which was before widespread vaccination, was adhd, Their unlce was dyslexic and he was born before so many of the vaccines were occuring early. Both my mom and dad had allergies and again that was before vaccinations. This whole study is idiotic.

Very true. I can quickly and easily think of two instances where the children had very apparent ASDs and the mothers eliminated everything under the sun in an effort to avoid getting the proper diagnosis. Both moms were anti-vax and both were eliminating everything from kids diet, certain that the child's erratic behavior was, "probably the corn" or whatever thing. In one case, I am aware that the child was eventually dx'ed with autism, but he was much older for the diagnosis than typical. I don't know what sequence of events made the parents eventually realize there weren't any other foods or environmental factors to blame and the child did have autism.

 

I lost touch with the other mom, so I don't know what came of it.

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Well cwap.  NOW I find out I never should have had my boys vaccinated or it would mess up their lives.   :lol:

 

 

 

(All three having been vaccinated on schedule, and now having graduated or soon to graduate college without any such health issues.  Good thing they didn't read the study to know what to expect.)

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My first thought was similar to transientChris's - the people who don't vax their kids are the same people who don't get them diagnosed with anything, especially not ASD or ADHD.

 

A study that's biased and self-reported with a poor sampling process. There's simply nothing you can conclude from this.

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Meh. My kids are all vaxed, but I've also met vaccine injured kids. Mainstream science has buckled down so damn hard on this issue, I don't think anyone is approaching it with a scientific curiosity. I mean, wasn't just last year that a "textbook rewriting" connection between the brain and the lymphatic system was discovered? Doesn't anyone wonder what the implications of that are?

 

And what about the CDC whistleblower who came forward last year?

 

I am not at all buying that the long-term effects of our current vaccination schedule have been researched enough, or that the current scientific community is given the freedom to do so. I mean, who wants to sign up for that job? Let me research one of the most controversial and polarizing issues in science and public health, and roll the dice on whether I still have a career in a few years. Yeah, I don't think so.

 

This issue is not black and white, and I'm a little weary of it being treated as such.

 

Signed,

the woman whose dd got a Hep A shot this morning

 

 

 

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Re autism: my feeling about that, as well as ADHD, has always been that it wasn't diagnosed forty years ago. Kids were labeled as "Bad" or "odd" or whatever, but not formally diagnosed. Many were diagnosed with an intellectual disability when they were actually autistic. So I'm not convinced there's actually an increase in many of these things.

 

UC Davis MIND Institute has debunked the "it's all just better diagnosis" claim and has shown that there actually HAS been an increase in autism.

 

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I get sick and tired of posts where people call for criminal punishments for parents who do not purchase every single shot available out there and inject the chemicals in to their newborns. If debatable posts are not allowed on the home school group, it does not belong there. 

 

Also, I do not vaccinate anymore. But my children do go to the doctor and the older ones were speech delayed and have ASD. 

 

After watching the tobacco trials and the big tobaccos owning congress, and how many decades the big tobaccos got away with what they got away with, and seeing how much more control the pharmaceuticals have, including the existence of VAERS, nope...I don't trust them. And since any doctor or scientist who speaks out against vaccinations lose their licenses and get stripped of their careers and no one is allowed to sue the companies and media is largely censored against saying anything against vaccinations, well, I don't trust them. Any extremely wealthy corporation that will go that far and spend that much money to cover up something must have something to cover up.

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Meh. My kids are all vaxed, but I've also met vaccine injured kids. Mainstream science has buckled down so damn hard on this issue, I don't think anyone is approaching it with a scientific curiosity. I mean, wasn't just last year that a "textbook rewriting" connection between the brain and the lymphatic system was discovered? Doesn't anyone wonder what the implications of that are?

 

And what about the CDC whistleblower who came forward last year?

 

I am not at all buying that the long-term effects of our current vaccination schedule have been researched enough, or that the current scientific community is given the freedom to do so. I mean, who wants to sign up for that job? Let me research one of the most controversial and polarizing issues in science and public health, and roll the dice on whether I still have a career in a few years. Yeah, I don't think so.

 

This issue is not black and white, and I'm a little weary of it being treated as such.

 

Signed,

the woman whose dd got a Hep A shot this morning

I don't doubt the existence of vaccine injuries. I know they definitely happen. What I have an issue with is the throughly debunked notion that autism is a vaccine injury.

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I get sick and tired of posts where people call for criminal punishments for parents who do not purchase every single shot available out there and inject the chemicals in to their newborns. If debatable posts are not allowed on the home school group, it does not belong there.

 

What are you talking about?  No one said that.

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I get sick and tired of posts whe

 

Also, I'm not for criminal prosecution but it is totally and completely reasonable that unvaxed kids or adults are occasionally not allowed to be part of a group where parents have vaxed and want that protection.  

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Also, I'm not for criminal prosecution but it is totally and completely reasonable that unvaxed kids or adults are occasionally not allowed to be part of a group where parents have vaxed and want that protection.  

 

I do not understand what the parents of vaxed kids should need protection from as far as unvaxed kids.  I thought the whole point of vaxing my kids is that they can be exposed to measles and not catch it.

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I get sick and tired of posts where people call for criminal punishments for parents who do not purchase every single shot available out there and inject the chemicals in to their newborns.

I have read this thread and see no one suggesting that criminal punishment is appropriate for non vaxers. Unless I missed a post, possible as I am tired right now so not entirely focused, I cannot see any basis for this allegation.

Edited by FaithManor
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I wish more anti-vax folks could talk with my grandparent's generation - about how many were lost to polio, measles, etc, back then - more real life stuff instead of hype.

 

Vaccinations aren't perfect and a few are harmed by them.  I don't think anyone disputes that.  But far, far fewer have issues than those who died or had major issues from the diseases they work to prevent.

 

I wonder if the younger generation even knows anyone IRL who had polio and had leftover lifelong issues from it (wheelchair bound or similar).

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I do not understand what the parents of vaxed kids should need protection from as far as unvaxed kids. I thought the whole point of vaxing my kids is that they can be exposed to measles and not catch it.

The protection is for those who cannot be completely vaccinated-or for those who's immunity is incomplete. Even if you've been vaccinated against German measles, that doesn't mean you want to be exposed to it while pregnant, for example (and a real-world one-we had two pregnant teachers in my school when we had a "personal beliefs excemption" student come down with German measles-plus multiple pregnant parents.)

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I do not understand what the parents of vaxed kids should need protection from as far as unvaxed kids.  I thought the whole point of vaxing my kids is that they can be exposed to measles and not catch it.

 

The problem is when the infected kid exposes those who are not fully immunized due to age or health issues. Fully vaxed 8 year olds should be fine; fully vaxed 8 month olds, though, still have more rounds to go before they are fully immunized. And some kids (very few, but some) have health issues that make vaccines risky or not work for them; some of these issues also make the actual diseases more risky for them as well, so they count on herd immunity to keep them safe. Kids who are not vaxed even though they could/should be (and especially who think they are doing others favors by exposing their infected kids to everyone else) jeopardize the health of those 2 populations (in addition to their own kids, of course).

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I do not understand what the parents of vaxed kids should need protection from as far as unvaxed kids.  I thought the whole point of vaxing my kids is that they can be exposed to measles and not catch it.

 

The only reasonable argument I've heard is to protect children too young to receive certain vaccines and those who cannot be vaccinated.  But otherwise, yeah I find that rather baffling.

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I wish more anti-vax folks could talk with my grandparent's generation - about how many were lost to polio, measles, etc, back then - more real life stuff instead of hype.

 

Vaccinations aren't perfect and a few are harmed by them.  I don't think anyone disputes that.  But far, far fewer have issues than those who died or had major issues from the diseases they work to prevent.

 

I wonder if the younger generation even knows anyone IRL who had polio and had leftover lifelong issues from it (wheelchair bound or similar).

My mom had polio (I'm in my 30s). 

 

She's in very bad health now due to post-polio syndrome. She's had extreme nerve damage that has hindered her for a decade and now has severe back problems due to the lousy muscles she has due to polio paralysis. This is real stuff.

 

Emily

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My mom had polio (I'm in my 30s). 

 

She's in very bad health now due to post-polio syndrome. She's had extreme nerve damage that has hindered her for a decade and now has severe back problems due to the lousy muscles she has due to polio paralysis. This is real stuff.

 

Emily

 

I'd like your post, but... so let's just say I agree it's real stuff - real lives being affected - and I'm sorry about your mom.   :grouphug:

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Here's something I wrote for another forum - 

 

There is *so* much scientifically wrong with this study, and even worse the way it was reported in the article, that it's hard to know where to start. The most important thing to understand is that they used a non-random, non-representative, self-selected sample of homeschoolers, and that they attempted to extrapolate their results to the general population. Of the people who volunteered to participate in the study:
 
92.5% were white.
91.2% had at least some college education.
69.3% made over $50K per year.
91.2% were Christian.
93.7% were married.
And a whopping 70% were either unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, with 39% completely unvaccinated.
 
This is not representative of the homeschooling community, let alone the general population.
 
Again, the group studied was NOT randomly chosen from the homeschooling population. Rather, the study was described to potential participants as looking at Ă¢â‚¬Å“whether vaccination is linked in any way to children's long-term healthĂ¢â‚¬; it is thus no surprise that mothers who choose not to vaccinate their children were dramatically over-represented in the study population. 
 
The authors (of the study) are careful to explain *some* of the limits of their study, but the article written about the study comes to a number of conclusions that simply arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t supported by the data. For those concerned about these issues, I encourage you to read the actual study, rather than the inflammatory and misleading article, and to keep in mind that the people who participated in the study are in no way a random sample. 
Edited by justasque
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Here's something I wrote for another forum - 

 

There is *so* much scientifically wrong with this study, and even worse the way it was reported in the article, that it's hard to know where to start. The most important thing to understand is that they used a non-random, non-representative, self-selected sample of homeschoolers, and that they attempted to extrapolate their results to the general population. Of the people who volunteered to participate in the study:
 
92.5% were white.
91.2% had at least some college education.
69.3% made over $50K per year.
91.2% were Christian.
93.7% were married.
And a whopping 70% were either unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, with 39% completely unvaccinated.
 
This is not representative of the homeschooling community, let alone the general population.
 
Again, the group studied was NOT randomly chosen from the homeschooling population. Rather, the study was described to potential participants as looking at Ă¢â‚¬Å“whether vaccination is linked in any way to children's long-term healthĂ¢â‚¬; it is thus no surprise that mothers who choose not to vaccinate their children were dramatically over-represented in the study population. 
 
The authors are careful to explain *some* of the limits of their study, but the article comes to a number of conclusions that simply arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t supported by the data. For those concerned about these issues, I encourage you to read the actual study, rather than the inflammatory and misleading article, and to keep in mind that the people who participated in the study are in no way a random sample. 

 

 

Adding to your post about this not being anywhere near a decent random sample, here are the vaccination stats the CDC supplies for the US: 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/immunize.htm

 

 It's nowhere near 39% completely unvaccinated. I suspect some of those who aren't have legitimate health reasons too.  Fortunately, most parents don't seem to buy the hype.

 

Percent of children 19-35 months old receiving vaccinations for:
  • Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis (4+ doses DTP, DT, or DTaP): 84.2%
  • Polio (3+ doses): 93.3%
  • Measles, Mumps, Rubella (MMR) (1+ doses): 91.5%
  • Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) (primary series + booster dose): 82.0%
  • Hepatitis B (Hep B) (3+ doses): 91.6%
  • Chickenpox (Varicella) (1+ doses): 91.0%
  • Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV) (4+ doses): 82.9%
  • Combined 7-vaccine series: 71.6%

Source: Health, United States, 2015, table 66[PDF - 9.8 MB] (data are for 2014)

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I don't doubt the existence of vaccine injuries. I know they definitely happen. What I have an issue with is the throughly debunked notion that autism is a vaccine injury.

Ever? Like no kid has ever developed autism as part of a vaccine reaction? 

 

 

This is a sincere question, but I totally get it if you don't want to engage. I'm curious, which vaccine injuries do you think are valid? Is autism the only medical issue that you think is never caused by vaccinations (assuming that's what you meant), or are there other medical disorders/symptoms/reactions that you also think are never caused by vaccinations?

 

I ask, because I am completely unconvinced on both ends- that vaccinations are always or never the cause of any given infirmaty. I believe our immune systems are complex and not completely understood. And, no, I don't trust the marriage of science, government, and big pharma that keeps telling me to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

But like I said, we vaccinate. My kids have always responded very well and we have no reason to avoid them. We even do flu shots.

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Adding to your post about this not being anywhere near a decent random sample, here are the vaccination stats the CDC supplies for the US: 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/immunize.htm

 

 It's nowhere near 39% completely unvaccinated....

Interestingly, the study authors see that as a plus: 

 "A major challenge in comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children has been to identify an accessible pool of unvaccinated children, since the vast majority of children in the U.S. are vaccinated. Children educated at home (Ă¢â‚¬Å“homeschool childrenĂ¢â‚¬) are suitable for such studies as a higher proportion are unvaccinated compared to public school children."

http://oatext.com/Pilot-comparative-study-on-the-health-of-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-6-to-12-year-old-U.S.-children.php

 

Note also that one of the researchers is Brian D Ray, of the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI).  Ray has done a number of studies of homeschoolers; most or all of which I've seen have been criticized for selection bias / non-random samples.  HSLDA has commissioned the NHERI to  do at least one study, with HSLDA using the results as if they were representative of the entire homeschooling community, despite the similar self-selection issues.  

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I wish more anti-vax folks could talk with my grandparent's generation - about how many were lost to polio, measles, etc, back then - more real life stuff instead of hype.

 

Vaccinations aren't perfect and a few are harmed by them.  I don't think anyone disputes that.  But far, far fewer have issues than those who died or had major issues from the diseases they work to prevent.

 

I wonder if the younger generation even knows anyone IRL who had polio and had leftover lifelong issues from it (wheelchair bound or similar).

 

Yes, my grandfather had polio when he was four and had lasting effects from it.  When I was very young, he walked with two canes, but by the time I was six or so, he needed a wheelchair all the time.

 

But I've also seen my sister have a seizure due to a vaccine.

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My dh's aunt had polio as a child. It went around the whole town, and many of the children died. She barely survived, and suffered horribly in life from the side effects.

 

My uncle died of diphtheria a couple of years before the vaccine came out.

 

In my mother's church there is a middle aged woman who is deaf because her mother was exposed to measles during the pregnancy. Also many people forget that measles is a killer. They remember that polio is or that in rare cases chicken pox is, but forget that measles can move to the brain and creates mass distruction.

 

And the aversion to tetanus itself I simply do not understand. It is nearly 100% lethal and can be picked up from a simple cut, the prick of a rose thorn. My niece will not even allow this vax despite the fact that we have had Amish horses in the area die of tetanus because they aren't vaxed. If the Amish neighbor's horse can get it, her kids most certainly can!

 

The study though is just so poorly done that it is scientifically irrelevant.

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The problem is when the infected kid exposes those who are not fully immunized due to age or health issues. Fully vaxed 8 year olds should be fine; fully vaxed 8 month olds, though, still have more rounds to go before they are fully immunized. And some kids (very few, but some) have health issues that make vaccines risky or not work for them; some of these issues also make the actual diseases more risky for them as well, so they count on herd immunity to keep them safe. Kids who are not vaxed even though they could/should be (and especially who think they are doing others favors by exposing their infected kids to everyone else) jeopardize the health of those 2 populations (in addition to their own kids, of course).

 

OK but the post I replied to said the parents were worried about protecting their vaxed kids from other people's unvaxed kids.  Since we're talking about kids playing together, these would be kids old enough to have all the major vaxes.

 

In real life, do people ask other parents if their kids are vaxed?  I can't imagine doing that.  Nobody has ever asked me either.  So this whole line of conversation kind of freaks me out.  Some kids aren't vaxed - we all know that.  Most kids are.  Mine are.  I don't need to know anything else.

 

What's probably more concerning is that the vaxes wear off and adults rarely get their boosters.  I am probably as much of a danger to anyone's unvaxed kid, pregnant lady, or old person as an unvaxed kid is, and nobody seems to worry about being around me.

 

Edited by SKL
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I wish more anti-vax folks could talk with my grandparent's generation - about how many were lost to polio, measles, etc, back then - more real life stuff instead of hype.

 

Vaccinations aren't perfect and a few are harmed by them.  I don't think anyone disputes that.  But far, far fewer have issues than those who died or had major issues from the diseases they work to prevent.

 

I wonder if the younger generation even knows anyone IRL who had polio and had leftover lifelong issues from it (wheelchair bound or similar).

 

Not polio, but my father died of an HPV related cancer. Obviously, thanks to the vaccine, my sons won't ever get it.

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Ever? Like no kid has ever developed autism as part of a vaccine reaction? 

 

 

This is a sincere question, but I totally get it if you don't want to engage. I'm curious, which vaccine injuries do you think are valid? Is autism the only medical issue that you think is never caused by vaccinations (assuming that's what you meant), or are there other medical disorders/symptoms/reactions that you also think are never caused by vaccinations?

 

I ask, because I am completely unconvinced on both ends- that vaccinations are always or never the cause of any given infirmaty. I believe our immune systems are complex and not completely understood. And, no, I don't trust the marriage of science, government, and big pharma that keeps telling me to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

But like I said, we vaccinate. My kids have always responded very well and we have no reason to avoid them. We even do flu shots.

 

I don't know anyone who says that vaccines never, ever cause any kind of medical problem. However, like with most things, it's extremely rare. It certainly doesn't happen often enough, imho, to justify not vaccinating healthy children with no history of a vaccine reaction.

 

Could a severe vaccine reaction cause some kind of brain injury that in turn causes the person to be diagnosed with autism? I suppose it's possible. But again, it would be very, very rare. I'm sorry, but someone saying their two year old was vaccinated and then a month later developed regressive autism does not mean the shots caused the autism any more than breathing air caused autism.

 

Also, as someone who is pregnant and living right in the middle of two cities having a big measles outbreak that was traced back to unvaxxed populations, I have very little patience for anti-vaxxers at the moment.

Edited by Mergath
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OK but the post I replied to said the parents were worried about protecting their vaxed kids from other people's unvaxed kids.  Since we're talking about kids playing together, these would be kids old enough to have all the major vaxes.

 

In real life, do people ask other parents if their kids are vaxed?  I can't imagine doing that.  Nobody has ever asked me either.  So this whole line of conversation kind of freaks me out.  Some kids aren't vaxed - we all know that.  Most kids are.  Mine are.  I don't need to know anything else.

 

What's probably more concerning is that the vaxes wear off and adults rarely get their boosters.  I am probably as much of a danger to anyone's unvaxed kid, pregnant lady, or old person than an unvaxed kid is, and nobody seems to worry about being around me.

 

 

Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of a child catching an illness, but they don't eliminate it completely. For example, the MMR vaccine is 93% effective at preventing measles. It's not 100%, but I'll gratefully get my kids vaxxed and live with the 7% chance.

 

For the most part, you don't even need to ask people if their kids are vaxxed. In my experience, the anti-vaxxers will start ranting at anyone and everyone about the evils of Big Pharma and vaccines causing autism and aluminum adjuvants and on and on and on. They typically out themselves if you spend more than a few minutes with them.

 

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