DH going through breakdown. Support only, please.

[bolt.]

I'm with you. Keep sharing -- if it feels "self-indulgent" to you *and* it allows us all to feel like we are "being supportive" I think that's a win-win.

[Catwoman]

Well, not much to update except gory details. This feels very self indulgent, but here I am typing anyway, lol.

The TL;DR is he's actively working to push this to crisis and idk how to respond, or when.

 

He came home after 10pm last night, after saying he had to go into town in the morning for the library.  I did call him midday and confront him over it when he started evading basic questions. Basically he said all the same stuff, with an extra dose of feeling trapped and if he didn't go through with his date then he would feel "a profound sense of loss and I don't know *what* I'd do", and there is nothing wrong with how he is, it is just who he is. I kind of lost my cool and told him every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  He did admit he isn't thinking about consequences, so long as he gets to "live."

 

He's trying now to engage me on text, but I'm basically just sitting here. I don't know if I should try to normalize relations to deescalate or not. He might get the impression all is well, and it most certainly is not. On the other hand, I want to get through the week before I start shaking Pandora's box. Also, I'm not used to taking action when my emotions are high, I tend to wait until I cool off so I don't act on passion alone. The schedule this week happens to end with him not around kids at all until Friday so I think I'm going to take the time to continue plans and regain my level, unless he forces my hand early.

 

Technically he hasn't crossed my internal line yet (but like, he is doing pirouettes on it) and my aim is still to slow this train, not add fuel to the fire. I cannot compute that my life has changed so much in so little time. He was so excited for the baby, delighted, he literally said life was good. Now he's saying he's never enjoyed family life and wasn't meant to be married. It's just surreal. I don't think I've fully caught up to what's going on. 

 

Thanks for indulging me. I'll keep future updates to things that materially change the situation.

If I were in your situation, I'd toss his sorry butt to the curb and tell him to let his "date" deal with his mental health crisis.

 

Sorry, but if he's dating and that's not enough to cross your "internal line," I don't know what he has to do to cross it. This is way beyond acceptable, and I would no longer accept mental illness as an excuse.

 

Are you sure he's really mentally ill and that he's not just playing you for a fool to get away with cheating on you? Because he sounds pretty darned rational, calculating, and manipulative to me.

 

Whatever his true story, I would be done with him at this point. He's not seeking help and he is coming right out and telling you that he's dating other women, and he is most certainly having s*x with them or is at least actively trying to make that happen -- and you're putting up with it by letting him come home every night.

 

I know this was a JAWM thread, but I think you're making a huge mistake by tolerating this kind of horrible behavior, and I think this has gone way beyond anything you should have to excuse from a mental health standpoint.

[Catwoman]

Yes, but have not gotten any actual advice yet (part of the reason I'm trying to delay to Friday).

I hope you are documenting every single detail of every single incident, and if he wants to engage you in a texting conversation about what he's doing, lead him on and let him hang himself by admitting to everything in those texts.

 

Keep calling the lawyer to see if there have been any cancellations so you can get an appointment sooner.

[Lilaclady]

Praying for strength and courage for you.

This is so hard(((((hugs)))))

Edited April 25, 2017 by Lilaclady

[Moonhawk]

If I were in your situation, I'd toss his sorry butt to the curb and tell him to let his "date" deal with his mental health crisis.

 

Sorry, but if he's dating and that's not enough to cross your "internal line," I don't know what he has to do to cross it. This is way beyond acceptable, and I would no longer accept mental illness as an excuse.

 

Are you sure he's really mentally ill and that he's not just playing you for a fool to get away with cheating on you? Because he sounds pretty darned rational, calculating, and manipulative to me.

 

Whatever his true story, I would be done with him at this point. He's not seeking help and he is coming right out and telling you that he's dating other women, and he is most certainly having s*x with them or is at least actively trying to make that happen -- and you're putting up with it by letting him come home every night.

 

I know this was a JAWM thread, but I think you're making a huge mistake by tolerating this kind of horrible behavior, and I think this has gone way beyond anything you should have to excuse from a mental health standpoint.

Hi Catwoman, thank you, you are giving voice to a growing percentage of me.

 

The internal line I had was his sleeping with someone else. Frankly before yesterday the thought of him *dating* hadn't really crystallized because I was under the impression he was considering, um, faster end game options, not developing a relationship. So he hasn't technically crossed.  But the more I look at the situation I'm wondering if in actuality my line is this instead. 

 

He's not home until 9pm tonight (legit) or later (not legit). So, like I said in the earlier post, I want to slow the train, and delay to Friday (meeting priest on Wednesday, he has psychologist appt on Thursday, I think I have the lawyer on Friday). But I also have until 9pm to change my mind and speed things up. I do have suitcases packed for me and the kids. But I am considering packing one for him instead, it seems more appropriate, though he will take it as an aggressive move. But maybe that is the best option now.

 

Yes, I am sure about the mental illness. But, I'm no longer sure about being able to help him through this episode as I have been (i.e. in the same house). 

 

And yes to documentation. 

[Garga]

I hope someone else chimes in, but I'm pretty sure that if it comes to divorce, you want to be IN THE HOUSE.  If you're the one who leaves the house, that gives you less leverage somehow or other. 

So, pack his bag and not yours.  You stay in the house and he goes.

 

But I hope someone else chimes in, because I'm telling you this second hand, going from memory from other threads like this one.  Before you leave the house, be sure that that's the sound thing to do.

[zoobie]

Communicating in writing is very smart to do at this point, as is avoiding any confrontations until you get to a lawyer.

 

In the meantime, keep an eye on your financials. Do you have an emergency fund that only you can access? You may want to go set up a bank account in only your name. Don't drain your joint account or anything, but have an account ready to go. (If you get through this crisis, excellent. Keep the account and keep adding to it.) If you don't have any credit cards in your name, get some while you can use joint income. If you have any credit cards with him as an authorized user, get him off. Keep an eye on any children's accounts with him as an authorized person. Change any passwords of yours for your phone, email, facebook, this account. Use chrome incognito on any shared devices and close out the windows. If he pays the bills, make sure they're all being paid. Were your taxes paid? Basically anything that he's supposed to take care of, double check that it is taken care of. 

 

Sending you hugs and strength. Do you have friends to lean on nearby? :grouphug:

[G5052]

I hope someone else chimes in, but I'm pretty sure that if it comes to divorce, you want to be IN THE HOUSE.  If you're the one who leaves the house, that gives you less leverage somehow or other. 

So, pack his bag and not yours.  You stay in the house and he goes.

 

But I hope someone else chimes in, because I'm telling you this second hand, going from memory from other threads like this one.  Before you leave the house, be sure that that's the sound thing to do.

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

It is better on so many fronts if he moves out.

 

Emotionally, that makes him the initiator, which is often best in the dynamic. He left you and the children. His choice.

 

Legally, it can make a difference. Even in a separation, I've always heard that the woman and children should stay put unless there's violence involved. That question will come up.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If you hand him a suitcase, don't be home alone with him when you do that. Consider where the kids should be, and who could be there with you in case things go badly.

 

You are staying alert and doing a great job, Moonhawk. Listen to zoobie ^^^ about the money. Be careful.

[emmaluv+2more]

I hope someone else chimes in, but I'm pretty sure that if it comes to divorce, you want to be IN THE HOUSE. If you're the one who leaves the house, that gives you less leverage somehow or other.

So, pack his bag and not yours. You stay in the house and he goes.

 

But I hope someone else chimes in, because I'm telling you this second hand, going from memory from other threads like this one. Before you leave the house, be sure that that's the sound thing to do.

Depends on the state, but I agree that he should be the one to leave, even for just practical reasons.

 

I've been exactly, to the T where you are moonhawk. Just know you aren't alone and that others are thinking about you

[Catwoman]

Hi Catwoman, thank you, you are giving voice to a growing percentage of me.

 

The internal line I had was his sleeping with someone else. Frankly before yesterday the thought of him *dating* hadn't really crystallized because I was under the impression he was considering, um, faster end game options, not developing a relationship. So he hasn't technically crossed. But the more I look at the situation I'm wondering if in actuality my line is this instead.

 

He's not home until 9pm tonight (legit) or later (not legit). So, like I said in the earlier post, I want to slow the train, and delay to Friday (meeting priest on Wednesday, he has psychologist appt on Thursday, I think I have the lawyer on Friday). But I also have until 9pm to change my mind and speed things up. I do have suitcases packed for me and the kids. But I am considering packing one for him instead, it seems more appropriate, though he will take it as an aggressive move. But maybe that is the best option now.

 

Yes, I am sure about the mental illness. But, I'm no longer sure about being able to help him through this episode as I have been (i.e. in the same house).

 

And yes to documentation.

You keep insisting that he's not having s*x with anyone else, but I think that may be wishful thinking on your part. Everything you have posted leads me to believe that he has already acted on his desires and that he is trying to get you to approve of his behavior. I don't believe for a minute that he would actually need your permission to have s*x with other women. I think he just wants you to agree to it so he can stop sneaking around behind your back.

 

I'm not harping on this because I want to hurt you, but because I believe you are being unrealistic.

 

I hope you are at the point where you won't let him anywhere near you s*xually, because I would be very concerned about STDs. I would also very strongly advise you to see a doctor and get tested for STDs that you may have already contracted from him in the past.

 

I know you don't want to consider this, but your dh may have already been more than a little promiscuous, and I am worried about your health.

[zoobie]

I hope someone else chimes in, but I'm pretty sure that if it comes to divorce, you want to be IN THE HOUSE.  If you're the one who leaves the house, that gives you less leverage somehow or other. 

So, pack his bag and not yours.  You stay in the house and he goes.

 

But I hope someone else chimes in, because I'm telling you this second hand, going from memory from other threads like this one.  Before you leave the house, be sure that that's the sound thing to do.

 

Yes, but he needs to leave voluntarily. That's where a lawyer in her jurisdiction can be more helpful with the requirements. Here you can't toss his crap on the lawn and change the locks. She could pack his bag, but he'd have to voluntarily pick it up and vacate the domicile (and not with the intent to go on vacation or whatever--he has to intend to LEAVE, and whether he would have the mental capacity to form that intent???). THEN she could change the locks. 

 

OP, unless you feel fearful, I really would wait on anything until you speak with an attorney. Did you tell them it was really urgent? Have you called ahead to the psychologist?

[lauraw4321]

I'm repeating myself, but please make sure that if you have any weapons they are removed from the house.

 

Please do not assume that he would not hurt you or the kids. You don't know that. You also didn't think he'd try to date other women and have an open marriage. 

 

I agree with seeing the lawyer, but it may be safer for you to leave with the kids instead of kicking him out. I realize that can have serious implications legally, but your safety must be your highest priority.

[emmaluv+2more]

If you hand him a suitcase, don't be home alone with him when you do that. Consider where the kids should be, and who could be there with you in case things go badly.

 

You are staying alert and doing a great job, Moonhawk. Listen to zoobie ^^^ about the money. Be careful.

Yes. And be prepared for him to refuse to leave. My ex wouldn't go, so the kids and I had to do the leaving.

[Scarlett]

I hope someone else chimes in, but I'm pretty sure that if it comes to divorce, you want to be IN THE HOUSE.  If you're the one who leaves the house, that gives you less leverage somehow or other. 

So, pack his bag and not yours.  You stay in the house and he goes.

 

But I hope someone else chimes in, because I'm telling you this second hand, going from memory from other threads like this one.  Before you leave the house, be sure that that's the sound thing to do.

 

 

Not an attorney here, but I believe it is better to remain in the house if that is possible.  Obviously, if you can't get him to move out you may have to.  But I would run all of that by your attorney first.  He may can file an emergency request to get your husband out of your marital home. 

 

And of course, be safe.  Don't stay if you feel he is a threat to you physically.

[Catwoman]

Communicating in writing is very smart to do at this point, as is avoiding any confrontations until you get to a lawyer.

 

In the meantime, keep an eye on your financials. Do you have an emergency fund that only you can access? You may want to go set up a bank account in only your name. Don't drain your joint account or anything, but have an account ready to go. (If you get through this crisis, excellent. Keep the account and keep adding to it.) If you don't have any credit cards in your name, get some while you can use joint income. If you have any credit cards with him as an authorized user, get him off. Keep an eye on any children's accounts with him as an authorized person. Change any passwords of yours for your phone, email, facebook, this account. Use chrome incognito on any shared devices and close out the windows. If he pays the bills, make sure they're all being paid. Were your taxes paid? Basically anything that he's supposed to take care of, double check that it is taken care of.

 

Sending you hugs and strength. Do you have friends to lean on nearby? :grouphug:

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Don't assume that he's so mentally ill that he isn't already making plans for a possible separation and/or divorce. Don't assume he's not squirreling money away so you won't be able to get it if and when you separate.

 

Also don't assume that he hasn't already consulted with a divorce attorney. For all you know, he could already be several steps ahead of you.

 

You are being far too trusting toward a man who you admit is behaving totally unlike the man you married.

 

And as others have already posted, don't leave the house. He has to be the one to leave unless you are concerned for your safety and the safety of the kids.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Catwoman

[Seasider]

Hi Catwoman, thank you, you are giving voice to a growing percentage of me.

 

The internal line I had was his sleeping with someone else. Frankly before yesterday the thought of him *dating* hadn't really crystallized because I was under the impression he was considering, um, faster end game options, not developing a relationship. So he hasn't technically crossed. But the more I look at the situation I'm wondering if in actuality my line is this instead.

 

He's not home until 9pm tonight (legit) or later (not legit). So, like I said in the earlier post, I want to slow the train, and delay to Friday (meeting priest on Wednesday, he has psychologist appt on Thursday, I think I have the lawyer on Friday). But I also have until 9pm to change my mind and speed things up. I do have suitcases packed for me and the kids. But I am considering packing one for him instead, it seems more appropriate, though he will take it as an aggressive move. But maybe that is the best option now.

 

Yes, I am sure about the mental illness. But, I'm no longer sure about being able to help him through this episode as I have been (i.e. in the same house).

 

And yes to documentation.

Pack one for him and change the locks on the door. If you leave, you leave him with assets (property) and the ability to claim you abandoned him. Moreover, you leaving him comfortably in place to carry on life without you may give him confidence that he is proceeding in a way that rewards his behavior.

 

[ETA based in zoobie's advice above, don't change the locks til you get the lawyers okay. But don't act in any way that clues your dh in to the fact that you have an appointment with a lawyer. I honestly believe that with an unmediated mental illness, you have a good case for stating he is a possible danger to the children and must leave the home.]

 

I am so sorry you must deal with this. I have been worrying that my last comment was harsh, and contemplated apologizing for it. I am glad to know that it didn't likely offend. I very seriously meant that you are a generous and kind woman. But there is a point at which helping, hurts. Best to deal with this now, while your kids are still young enough to process and grow past it.

 

You and your kids remain in my prayers.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Seasider

[Catwoman]

I'm repeating myself, but please make sure that if you have any weapons they are removed from the house.

 

Please do not assume that he would not hurt you or the kids. You don't know that. You also didn't think he'd try to date other women and have an open marriage.

 

I agree with seeing the lawyer, but it may be safer for you to leave with the kids instead of kicking him out. I realize that can have serious implications legally, but your safety must be your highest priority.

Yes!

 

If he is truly acting like a different person, you have no clue as to what that "different person" is capable of doing if confronted with a situation that upsets, angers, or frightens him.

 

Get him out of the house if you can -- try to make it his idea to leave -- but if you sense that he's getting too agitated, agree to anything he says and then get yourself and the kids out of there as soon as he leaves for work the next day.

[Scarlett]

Yes!

 

If he is truly acting like a different person, you have no clue as to what that "different person" is capable of doing if confronted with a situation that upsets, angers, or frightens him.

 

Get him out of the house if you can -- try to make it his idea to leave -- but if you sense that he's getting too agitated, agree to anything he says and then get yourself and the kids out of there as soon as he leaves for work the next day.

 

 

Trying to make it seem like his idea is a good idea. 

 

When I got my XH to voluntarily leave it was under threat of the emergency hearing that was scheduled.  It was scheduled for 1:30 and he signed off on the papers by noon.  I had neighbors who told him I need space....and he listened to them.  Just try everything.

 

I assume he already knows he is pushing you toward divorce?

[unsinkable]

Just as an FYI, you can have the police come and stand by as you move out.

 

So, let's say you have to leave in a hurry and you take only the kids and the clothes you are wearing. You can request that the police escort you back to gather what you need and keep you safe.

 

I hope you don't need to do this but sometimes women say they are going to the grocery store (or where ever) just to quietly leave and then have the police go back with them to get their stuff.

 

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Trying to make it seem like his idea is a good idea.

 

When I got my XH to voluntarily leave it was under threat of the emergency hearing that was scheduled. It was scheduled for 1:30 and he signed off on the papers by noon. I had neighbors who told him I need space....and he listened to them. Just try everything.

 

I assume he already knows he is pushing you toward divorce?

It sure seems that way to me, too, unless he thinks so little of her that he assumes he can do whatever he wants and she will never have the guts to divorce him.

 

I hate to say it, but it has been working just fine for him so far. The man has been out on a date and told her about it, and she's still willing to let him come home afterward. :svengo:

 

I would venture that most husbands would be too afraid for their own safety to even think about going back home after their wives found out they were "dating" another woman. This guy is absolutely beyond belief.

[Guest]

Yes. And be prepared for him to refuse to leave. My ex wouldn't go, so the kids and I had to do the leaving.

Not to hijack this very important thread, but that was one of the things I was wondering. I would assume there are men who will absolutely not leave without something compelling, like a Sheriff. I have not been through any similar situation, but it is very hard for me to imagine my DH would be easily moved from this property if this situation were going down here.

[FaithManor]

Agreeing with Unsinkable.

 

Since he is refusing treatment, he is a real wild card. You have no guarantee of safety.

[Spryte]

Not to hijack this very important thread, but that was one of the things I was wondering. I would assume there are men who will absolutely not leave without something compelling, like a Sheriff. I have not been through any similar situation, but it is very hard for me to imagine my DH would be easily moved from this property if this situation were going down here.

Yes, I wonder the same. Everyone gets the advice about not being the one to leave - and no one wants to leave. A friend just went through a strikingly similar scenario - the unmedicated bipolar, the "dating", the looking for open marriage and permission. He refused to leave, and spent a year living in the basement. They are divorced now, but did it with both refusing to leave the home. It was a mess.

 

I'm so sorry, moonhawk. I wish there were a simple answer for you. I hope your DH will get into therapy and get medicated. In the meantime, he is making a choice not to treat his illness. Please protect yourself and your kids.

[Lanny]

@Moonhawk I just read your post #211 and several posts above that.  I had commented way upthread, that if someone has a severe Psychiatric diagnosis, as he does, and is not taking their medication and is not regularly seeing a Psychiatrist , they are not going to improve and will constantly deteriorate. Couple that to infidelity and you have your current horrible situation. Do not allow this to go on. Pack his bag and send him on his way. When he spoke to you, about wanting an "Open Marriage", he was telling you a lot. Him being Manic Depressive is not the cause of him not being faithful to you and your children. I can think of a number of couples I know where the man strayed and it does not take  severe mental illness, or any mental illness,  to make that happen. It only takes someone who is not faithful to his or her spouse and their children. See the Attorney ASAP.  Change the locks on the doors. Be careful and good luck!

Edited April 25, 2017 by Lanny

[Seasider]

What if his parents or some family friends "dropped in" for a visit? And stayed a couple of days? That may add fuel to the fire, but it may give you the buffer you need? Put him in best behavior and stall him just long enough for you to get your ducks in a row? Help with child care while you do some necessary banking and lawyering? Just wondering, and frustrated. You know the WTM aunties would swoop in to help if possible.

[Mimm]

Just wanted to throw out hugs and support. I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this.

[zoobie]

Guys, she needs calm. She's not dealing with a rational person. He has an untreated mental illness with a fairly new diagnosis. He hasn't had continuity of care, and our mental health care system here sucks. He's in a spot right now where he's trying to create drama. It is not wise for her to throw a fit, pitch his stuff on the lawn, and set it on fire right now. He may get past this crisis period, accept his diagnosis, and seek and comply with treatment. He may one day be horrified by his behavior and work to make amends. He may not be, but she will still have to co-parent with him to some extent for the rest of her children's lives. 

 

Stay calm. Don't let him provoke you into an argument. You're not arguing with your husband. You'd be arguing with his mental illness. Please get into that lawyer ASAP and create a safety plan. 

[Scarlett]

Not to hijack this very important thread, but that was one of the things I was wondering. I would assume there are men who will absolutely not leave without something compelling, like a Sheriff. I have not been through any similar situation, but it is very hard for me to imagine my DH would be easily moved from this property if this situation were going down here.

 

 

Yep.  My XH wouldn't just leave.  I had to get an attorney and have the hearing scheduled.  The judge probably would have ruled in my favor (to get him out of the marital home) but you never know.  Sometime a judge won't order either party out...but I would sure try.

[Scarlett]

Guys, she needs calm. She's not dealing with a rational person. He has an untreated mental illness with a fairly new diagnosis. He hasn't had continuity of care, and our mental health care system here sucks. He's in a spot right now where he's trying to create drama. It is not wise for her to throw a fit, pitch his stuff on the lawn, and set it on fire right now. He may get past this crisis period, accept his diagnosis, and seek and comply with treatment. He may one day be horrified by his behavior and work to make amends. He may not be, but she will still have to co-parent with him to some extent for the rest of her children's lives. 

 

Stay calm. Don't let him provoke you into an argument. You're not arguing with your husband. You'd be arguing with his mental illness. Please get into that lawyer ASAP and create a safety plan. 

 

 

Yes, I agree with the stay calm.  And it sounds like MoonHawk is doing a great job of doing that so far.  I am hopeful she can just soothingly tell him maybe it would be best if he moves out to continue his dating....how it would be easier on everyone (including the children) if he does that.

[Catwoman]

Guys, she needs calm. She's not dealing with a rational person. He has an untreated mental illness with a fairly new diagnosis. He hasn't had continuity of care, and our mental health care system here sucks. He's in a spot right now where he's trying to create drama. It is not wise for her to throw a fit, pitch his stuff on the lawn, and set it on fire right now. He may get past this crisis period, accept his diagnosis, and seek and comply with treatment. He may one day be horrified by his behavior and work to make amends. He may not be, but she will still have to co-parent with him to some extent for the rest of her children's lives.

 

Stay calm. Don't let him provoke you into an argument. You're not arguing with your husband. You'd be arguing with his mental illness. Please get into that lawyer ASAP and create a safety plan.

I agree that she needs to stay calm, but this is not a new diagnosis. She said in her OP that he goes through this every 2 years or so.

 

That's one of the reasons why I have been less sympathetic toward him. This isn't a new and unknown thing for either Moonhawk or her dh.

[Moonhawk]

Okay guys, I'm oscillating a lot over here. The kids are gone for a few hours so I have the opportunity to indulge myself in scenarios. I have re-called the lawyer to be moved up, left voicemail.  Same with priest, but he's booked today, so called the Stephen Ministry and they said they'll see if they can get someone to talk to me today. I have to be calm again in 2.5 hours to give enough time for my nose to unredden and pick up kids, so trying to accomplish a lot in the meantime.

 

Options as I see them:

1 - he can agree to stop dating, get more intense treatment, and stay in the house.

2 - he can voluntarily admit himself to a hospital

3 - involuntary admission, but only an option if there is physical threat, and at this point there is no hint of that. 

4 - he can leave the house.

5 - I and kids can leave the house.

 

When these things could happen:

A - tonight, at 9pm (or later) when he comes home

B - tomorrow night, kids would not be in the house

C - Friday night, kids again not in the house

D - at point of crisis, i.e. unplanned.

E - later.

F - crazy right now, I drive up and just confront him. probably not the most reasonable option, ha. 

 

I think with all of these options, I will have to inform his family of the diagnosis and his current behavior either today or tomorrow; basically, I need to tell them before this explodes. Still unsure about how to handle my own family. 

[bzymom]

I understand where you are.  He is moving faster than you can react, and you have to keep life going for your little ones on top of it.

 

Please keep in mind that as justified as he feels in his behavior, and as "open" as he is as a result, he is likely also a masterful liar during an episode like this.  Everything he says and does serves him.  It is part of this illness.  So you don't know the truth, and might never know the truth, about his behavior outside your home.   Protect yourself.

 

If you are ready for him to leave, even temporarily, approach it with calm.  Dead calm.  He thinks he doesn't belong in the marriage, in the family, etc., you agree, so it would be best for everyone if he lives somewhere else while you sort this all out.   The goal is to get him out safely and calmly.   

 

I am sorry.  I hope he finds his way to appropriate help.  And I hope you get a moment to catch your breath. :grouphug:

[Moonhawk]

Well Stephen Ministry called and got me in, so I guess I'm going to go there now, and see if talking through this with someone gives me clarity on what and when. 

[Seasider]

Okay guys, I'm oscillating a lot over here. The kids are gone for a few hours so I have the opportunity to indulge myself in scenarios. I have re-called the lawyer to be moved up, left voicemail. Same with priest, but he's booked today, so called the Stephen Ministry and they said they'll see if they can get someone to talk to me today. I have to be calm again in 2.5 hours to give enough time for my nose to unredden and pick up kids, so trying to accomplish a lot in the meantime.

 

Options as I see them:

1 - he can agree to stop dating, get more intense treatment, and stay in the house.

2 - he can voluntarily admit himself to a hospital

3 - involuntary admission, but only an option if there is physical threat, and at this point there is no hint of that.

4 - he can leave the house.

5 - I and kids can leave the house.

 

When these things could happen:

A - tonight, at 9pm (or later) when he comes home

B - tomorrow night, kids would not be in the house

C - Friday night, kids again not in the house

D - at point of crisis, i.e. unplanned.

E - later.

F - crazy right now, I drive up and just confront him. probably not the most reasonable option, ha.

 

I think with all of these options, I will have to inform his family of the diagnosis and his current behavior either today or tomorrow; basically, I need to tell them before this explodes. Still unsure about how to handle my own family.

I am so impressed by your clarity of thought. Praying!

[MercyA]

Moonhawk, I am probably one of the most anti-divorce people on this board. I have great respect for you and for your beliefs. I also have extended, personal experience with mental illness. I do get it.

 

I am telling you, however--he has crossed the line. Mentally ill or not, he is still responsible for his choices, and as you told him, actions have consequences. I sincerely hope he will get treatment and you will be able to reconcile. For now, though, I wouldn't let him stay in your home. He needs to go. If he repents and gets his act together, then you can talk about what to do next. 

 

Again, I have huge respect for you. I will pray.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

ETA: Posted before I saw your latest updates. Count me as another one impressed by your clarity and wisdom in the midst of all this. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by MercyA

[Seasider]

Please don't be alone when all this goes down, especially if you are going to ask him to leave the house. His father, his best friend, the police, some unrelated authority figure... be safe!

[Jaybee]

Just want you to know that I am praying for you--for clarity, wisdom, and protection. And that everything will fall into place so that you can get your safety plan set up quickly with minimal stress and maximum protection.

[Pink and Green Mom]

Let me make another suggestion, and it was told to me by a friend who was in a similar situation as yours.

 

Go to the grocery store today, tomomrrow, the day after, etc.  Buy a few things (milk, bread, diapers, etc).  At each trip also buy a gift card.  For food, gasoline, drugstore, phone service, things you can use and will need to keep your kids safe and fed for a few days should you find yourself in a bind.  I'm not suggesting you drain the bank account, just make sure you have a $25 gift card to a variety of different places (gas station, Target, grocery store, etc.).

 

I am truly sorry you are going through this.  I have been thinking about you a lot.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Pink and Green Mom

[Scarlett]

Okay guys, I'm oscillating a lot over here. The kids are gone for a few hours so I have the opportunity to indulge myself in scenarios. I have re-called the lawyer to be moved up, left voicemail.  Same with priest, but he's booked today, so called the Stephen Ministry and they said they'll see if they can get someone to talk to me today. I have to be calm again in 2.5 hours to give enough time for my nose to unredden and pick up kids, so trying to accomplish a lot in the meantime.

 

Options as I see them:

1 - he can agree to stop dating, get more intense treatment, and stay in the house.

2 - he can voluntarily admit himself to a hospital

3 - involuntary admission, but only an option if there is physical threat, and at this point there is no hint of that. 

4 - he can leave the house.

5 - I and kids can leave the house.

 

When these things could happen:

A - tonight, at 9pm (or later) when he comes home

B - tomorrow night, kids would not be in the house

C - Friday night, kids again not in the house

D - at point of crisis, i.e. unplanned.

E - later.

F - crazy right now, I drive up and just confront him. probably not the most reasonable option, ha. 

 

I think with all of these options, I will have to inform his family of the diagnosis and his current behavior either today or tomorrow; basically, I need to tell them before this explodes. Still unsure about how to handle my own family. 

To the bolded I think I would be very vague with them.  If you must tell them something, just tell them you are separated while you work a few things out.  And then just refuse to discuss. And the only reason I say not to confide in them is that they have threatened to take your children before.

[Lanny]

The title of this thread could be changed to: "DH is unfaithful. Also, mentally ill, with no treatment"

 

I see the #1 issue as being the infidelity.  I wonder how long that has been going on.  I doubt that it has anything to do with his Mental illness.

 

I believe the OP needs to protect herself, and her DC, from what could potentially become a violent situation, and not try to imagine that this is going to end well and the family will live happily ever after.

 

I know some couples where the man strayed, and the wife then took her DH back, but I have no idea of how their lives are, within the confines of their homes. 

 

I think the DH of the OP should move out and move in with his girlfriend. That would be the best for the OP and her DC.

 

The OP should sleep, as a late friend told me he did, "with one eye open".

 

 

[Guest]

Stay safe. Whatever that entails.

(((())))

[Scarlett]

The title of this thread could be changed to: "DH is unfaithful. Also, mentally ill, with no treatment"

 

I see the #1 issue as being the infidelity.  I wonder how long that has been going on.  I doubt that it has anything to do with his Mental illness.

 

I believe the OP needs to protect herself, and her DC, from what could potentially become a violent situation, and not try to imagine that this is going to end well and the family will live happily ever after.

 

I know some couples where the man strayed, and the wife then took her DH back, but I have no idea of how their lives are, within the confines of their homes. 

 

I think the DH of the OP should move out and move in with his girlfriend. That would be the best for the OP and her DC.

 

The OP should sleep, as a late friend told me he did, "with one eye open".

 

 

There are mentally healthy men who cheat.  But mentally ill people sometimes are hyperfocused on sex.  It is really common.  The OP has been through this pattern with him before. 

[bolt.]

I "second the opinion" of being vague and boundaries with your parents, given their history.

[Catwoman]

There are mentally healthy men who cheat. But mentally ill people sometimes are hyperfocused on sex. It is really common. The OP has been through this pattern with him before.

I don't know about anyone else, but that's a pattern of behavior I couldn't deal with even once, let alone every few years. I couldn't be married to a man who did that, no matter what the reason.

 

It's also another reason why Moonhawk really needs to be tested immediately for STDs. We have been concentrating on this current situation, but we have no way of knowing whether or not her dh has been promiscuous during past episodes.

[BooksandBoys]

I would definitely have dating as my line in the sand (maybe even texting), but I understand that your line is different.

 

Should he cross your line and you need him out (because you should stay in the house of you can), I keep wondering if the simplest solution might be to "agree" with him, specifically regarding a separation. And help him think that moving out is all his idea so he will go happily and peacefully.

 

He has told you he wants an open marriage or a divorce. Given how he's acting, I'm inclined to think it might work to convince him to leave peacefully by simply agreeing that the divorce should happen, but make it "for him." (This will require you to act like you are a Hollywood star of acting.)

 

Gently encourage him to consider the following: "He" needs to have the freedom to find his happIness. "He" needs time to date without worrying about the the kids or you. "He" needs the freedom to find true love and other such carnal things.

Essentially, make it all about him and his happiness. Even consider going so far as to tell him that it will make "you" happy to see him happy.

 

I know this is ingenuine. I know it will break your heart, but it's not necessarily forever. He might hit rock bottom and go get treatment and come back. But, in the meantime, he may leave peacefully. (Consider helping him pack, finding him a hotel, just helping him go, all under the guise of wanting him to be happy. If you are a good enough actor). And if he doesn't leave, hopefully you didn't escalate anything either. And you can try again to convince him he'll be happier elsewhere the next day. And the next. Calmly, sweetly, and gently.

 

DON'T document what you say, only that he chose to leave. Chances are slim that he is documenting anything you do in his current state, and there is no need for you to record your role in getting him out. Your only goal is to get him to leave without violence, which might be very easy if he realizes he can go have fun as soon as he moves out.

 

Hugs, Moonhawk.

[Mergath]

Trying to make it seem like his idea is a good idea. 

 

When I got my XH to voluntarily leave it was under threat of the emergency hearing that was scheduled.  It was scheduled for 1:30 and he signed off on the papers by noon.  I had neighbors who told him I need space....and he listened to them.  Just try everything.

 

I assume he already knows he is pushing you toward divorce?

 

I honestly wouldn't make any assumptions about his thought process right now. Saying that bipolar people in the midst of a severe manic crisis have irrational thought patterns is the understatement of the century. Which is part of the reason they are, potentially, so dangerous. They seem to lose the ability to evaluate logical consequences. Anything that happened in the past or could happen in the future might as well not exist.

 

[Guest]

On the leaving versus him to leave, and jeopardizing assets......you can "leave" without technically legally leaving. There's nothing legally that says you can't take the kids on a mini vacation to get away from an unstable person during an episode or mental lapse, or whatever you want to call it. In that case you wouldn't technically be leaving him with the house. You would be on a trip. Which would give you time to talk to your lawyer and to breathe away from the craziness. You're not leaving a dramatic leaving note. You're not telling him you're separating. You're taking a small trip to see Aunt Lila or whoever you can. Then if your lawyer advises you need to stay in the house, you return from your trip and then have the difficult conversation. That's pretty much all I have to add- you getting space and away from him doesn't need to entail a legal vulnerability towards future separation or divorce. Plenty of people go on short trips without a spouse. If you mentioned it to him and he somehow forgot, that's on him, if you get what I'm saying. 

 

Huge hugs to you. I'm so sorry and will be praying for you and your family. 

[Denise in IN]

Moonhawk, I'm sorry you're having to go through this.  I'm praying for your safety, clarity of thought, and that God will bring the right people into your life to support and help you.   :grouphug:

[LMD]

just big hugs moonhawk. you are doing so so well. :grouphug: