DH going through breakdown. Support only, please.

[Moonhawk]

Your parents sound like they will be more controlling than supportive.  What gives them the idea they can take your kids from you?

 

I think they threatened me with it before just to try and intimidate me into compliance.  They know there is no real reason for taking kids, but want to express the magnitude of displeasure.  In the case of a separation and then reconciling, they would probably say that he is mentally unstable and so a danger to the kids.  They may know they don't have a chance of being able to actually do it, but they would definitely cause as much trouble as possible to try and stop a reconciliation. 

[Scarlett]

I think they threatened me with it before just to try and intimidate me into compliance.  They know there is no real reason for taking kids, but want to express the magnitude of displeasure.  In the case of a separation and then reconciling, they would probably say that he is mentally unstable and so a danger to the kids.  They may know they don't have a chance of being able to actually do it, but they would definitely cause as much trouble as possible to try and stop a reconciliation. 

 

 

I see.  Do you realize how wrong that is?  I know you don't want people ragging on your parents who I am sure are very good people but you are very vulnerable and it can be easy to be railroaded at times like this. 

[MaryMak07]

Oh Moonhawk, I am so very sorry for all you are going through!

 

You seem like a very strong person, but please be sure to create boundaries and take good care of yourself! Postpartum depression and anxiety issues are still a risk and you have a little bitty baby and other kids to take care of. Make sure you are putting on your own oxygen mask whatever that may look like!

[IfIOnly]

I'm sure you've heard about it from the boards, and it probably sounds cliche by now, but if you haven't read the book Boundaries, it will change your life. It really helped me see how I was enabling others and preventing their growth. I was caught in some dysfunction and repeating the cycle. Mostly, it was a lesson in living honestly and genuinely. Beyond Boundaries really gets into the nuts and bolts of relationship betrayal and a healthy recovery, if possible.

Edited April 21, 2017 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[swellmomma]

I think they threatened me with it before just to try and intimidate me into compliance.  They know there is no real reason for taking kids, but want to express the magnitude of displeasure.  In the case of a separation and then reconciling, they would probably say that he is mentally unstable and so a danger to the kids.  They may know they don't have a chance of being able to actually do it, but they would definitely cause as much trouble as possible to try and stop a reconciliation. 

I can see why you want to keep it under wraps.  Like you need the worry of their reactions on top of everything else. That actually makes me really angry that they are like that, I can understand what's going on with your spouse and know that regardless of how hard it is, it is the illness and not himself behaving and speaking this way. But with people like your folks that have threatened to take your kids and knowing that you do not have a proper support in them, that makes me angry because that is not due to an illness that is due to being controlling and mean.  I am sorry you have so much on your plate at once and not the level of support you really need right now to see him through this episode.

[ktgrok]

I see.  Do you realize how wrong that is?  I know you don't want people ragging on your parents who I am sure are very good people but you are very vulnerable and it can be easy to be railroaded at times like this. 

 

Moreover, if they have always been this way, I'd REALLY look into reading up on boundaries, and seeing a therapist. You may have been trained early on to be codependent, to put others before yourself to an extreme that isn't healthy. Regardless of what happens you need to learn new relationship skills, to avoid continuing the pattern. 

 

(NOT saying you caused this, at all, but it can be learned behavior and if you do separate you don't want to end up in another bad relationship down the road because you are still in that place mentally, if that makes sense.)

[zoobie]

People who threaten to take your children should have no place in your life. They shouldn't have access to any kind of information about you.

 

I hope you have other support. Therapy to develop boundaries for your parents and your DH could be very helpful for you. Which I know is super easy to arrange with small children and a newborn.

 

A good friend of mine's DH went off the rails while she was pregnant with both of their kids. Cheated on her both times. He has NPD and is bipolar. She filed for divorce after discovering the second affair, but they have reconciled. It is my personal opinion which I have kept to myself after their reconciliation that she is borderline emotionally abused by him. She was in therapy and was doing great until she ended it after the therapist brought up the same things. Whether the abuse is caused by the spouse's mental illness doesn't negate the fact that there may be an unhealthy situation for the wife and children.

 

Please, please take care of yourself. You're important just for being you, and you're important for your children. :grouphug:

[LMD]

Moreover, if they have always been this way, I'd REALLY look into reading up on boundaries, and seeing a therapist. You may have been trained early on to be codependent, to put others before yourself to an extreme that isn't healthy. Regardless of what happens you need to learn new relationship skills, to avoid continuing the pattern.

 

(NOT saying you caused this, at all, but it can be learned behavior and if you do separate you don't want to end up in another bad relationship down the road because you are still in that place mentally, if that makes sense.)

Exactly what I was thinking. Listen to KT, she is speaking truth!

 

I have a similar relationship with my mother, moonhawk so I really feel deeply for you. my mother would be positively gleeful and smug if dh and I separated. and yes, she's threatened trying to get the kids.

[bzymom]

.

Edited April 22, 2017 by bzymom

[Moonhawk]

I see.  Do you realize how wrong that is?  I know you don't want people ragging on your parents who I am sure are very good people but you are very vulnerable and it can be easy to be railroaded at times like this. 

 

 

I can see why you want to keep it under wraps.  Like you need the worry of their reactions on top of everything else. That actually makes me really angry that they are like that, I can understand what's going on with your spouse and know that regardless of how hard it is, it is the illness and not himself behaving and speaking this way. But with people like your folks that have threatened to take your kids and knowing that you do not have a proper support in them, that makes me angry because that is not due to an illness that is due to being controlling and mean.  I am sorry you have so much on your plate at once and not the level of support you really need right now to see him through this episode.

 

 

Moreover, if they have always been this way, I'd REALLY look into reading up on boundaries, and seeing a therapist. You may have been trained early on to be codependent, to put others before yourself to an extreme that isn't healthy. Regardless of what happens you need to learn new relationship skills, to avoid continuing the pattern. 

 

(NOT saying you caused this, at all, but it can be learned behavior and if you do separate you don't want to end up in another bad relationship down the road because you are still in that place mentally, if that makes sense.)

 

 

 

Yes, it's been difficult.  FWIW, I've started to see a decline in my parents, and I think this is where most of this  eta some of the more controlling attitude is coming from, especially with my mom (who is in the driver's seat when I say "my parents"). They weren't always like this, and aren't even always like this; but, it is relevant to my current decisions which is why I brought it up.

 

eta: my sisters agree with my assessment of mom, and have taken the approach of telling as little negative as possible about their lives.  They live in a different state though, so can get away with more than I can 15 minutes away.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Moonhawk

[BooksandBoys]

If your parents have EVER threatened to take your kids away from you, I would tell them nothing. Please reach out and find support; you need ir. But threats are not support. Hugs again. Take care of yourself. Read "Boundaries."

[bolt.]

Offering my support... your strength and intelligence are admirable, and they are exactly what is needed for this crisis.

[Guest]

I'm more upset with your parents than your husband. They threatened to take your kids?!? That is really messed up. Please don't give them any ammunition and please mention this issue to the lawyer so you can be a step ahead of them as well.

[BlsdMama]

I'm a regular poster, but would like to keep this side of my life separate from my public persona.

 

My DH is in the middle of a meltdown.  He has manic depression and has refused medication.  We go through this every 2 years or so.  This one has come on very suddenly compared to past experiences.  4 weeks ago he said he was afraid he was going to do something stupid.  3 weeks ago he said he started to act out (contact women), but was actively trying to stop the snowball and think logically through it.  Now we are in the thick of it.

 

He is talking about leaving me and the kids (4).  He says he never should have gotten married, he isn't supposed to be married, and just followed what he was "supposed to do" and didn't feel like he had a choice. He feels trapped and does;t see himself as a dad. He wants to date, meet new people, and wants permission.  He asked directly, I said no.  So, he is saying he's not afraid to leave and is tired of trying to fight "who he really is." He says he knows in the past he has changed his mind, but this time he really means it.  He says he has "never" been happy and is "always" thinking of leaving.

 

Well, when he is stable (so basically the past 2 years) he has said the opposite and in February was actually happy with how much progress career and family wise he's made when he doesn't have to deal with this.  He continually says the only thing that can hold him back and keep him from succeeding is "that stuff" (i.e. his breakdowns).

 

No one else knows of his diagnosis. While they may see his temper fluctuate, he's pretty good at acting logical around others.

 

My parents have never liked him and my mom yelled at him 2 weeks ago -- he yelled back (partially 10 years pent up of a difficult MIL, partially he was already on the downward spiral). Now she thinks he is, to quote, the devil incarnate, insane, a menace to society, and she wouldn't cross the street to save his life.  (my relationship with her is a post in itself)  So, I can't get any support there, though they would be thrilled if he actually did leave and prove them right.  The fact that it is a mental illness holds no water with them and they would probably try to take the kids from me if he did leave but then came back after the episode. 

 

The kids are mostly shielded from this -- he is actually nicer if anything right now with them; I think he is trying to justify he's a good person because "look how good he is with the kids" so it can't be a bad thing he wants to leave.  I don't want to put them through this, though, and if he does leave, permanently or just a few weeks, I'm not sure how I would react.  If it was just me, sure, I can cope. Idk how it will affect them, though.

 

I made a mistake this morning and got engaged in a conversation with him emotionally, saying that he isn't acting himself and when he says "life is pointless" then he wasn't himself.  I reminded him of his diagnosis. Now he is seeing it as proof I don't care about him, don't take his needs and emotions seriously, and "just see him as some type of lab rat." I know its not my fault, I'm not the problem here, but I don't want to give him fuel to psych himself up to leave.  The last thing he said was "F it, I'm tired of jumping thru hoops".

 

In between these heated conversations, he is making plans for us to go to a work conference together in June and is talking excitedly about some projects we just got. And how to divide up the work.  And buying me flowers.  So I know we're in the middle of an episode here.  

 

Idk what I'm looking for here.  Mostly I need to vent.  Maybe I need reassurance I'm not crazy, too.  Please don't tell me to get a divorce. We're Catholic but when he's like this he sees the Church as punishing him and as my way to control him or something. He may seek counseling as he comes out of the spiral, but anything I suggest or recommend will automatically be pushed against. 

 

I'm tired of this. I love him, he is a good guy when he's himself. He's a good dad.  He's even a good husband.  But when we go through this, I just don't know. My consolation is that eventually it will end.  But what will the carnage be?

 

 

I got nothing.  But this whole doing good to him and being able to distinguish between who he IS and who the disease is while he is going through a mental breakdown, yeah, God sees that.  I hope that is some consolation because in my mind, I know you don't see it, but it is a saintly act.  ((((Hugs))))

[lifesadream83]

So, my brother in law was just diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and at first it was like living "a beautiful mind." We all felt like part of who he was died. Mental illness is so very sad not just for those around the person but mostly for the patient. Losing your mind cannot be easy. My only & best suggestion is to take advantage of his moments of clarity and beg him to be medicated. It makes a world of difference. Hugs to you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlessedMom]

Continuing to pray for you!

[Moonhawk]

Continuing to pray for you!

Thank you, I need it.  It's getting worse.  If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive.  There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now. 

[bolt.]

Our hearts are with you, as you do what needs to be done.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you, I need it.  It's getting worse.  If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive.  There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now. 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[maize]

Sending prayers and hugs your way.

[matrips]

Thank you, I need it. It's getting worse. If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive. There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now.

Uh oh, stopping to pray now. I hope it doesn't get there for you.

[NorthwestMom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Seasider]

(((Moonhawk)))

[LMD]

gentle hugs moonhawk :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Thank you, I need it. It's getting worse. If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive. There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now.

Praying for you, Moonhawk.

 

One thing I want to say, though -- and it may not be a popular sentiment -- is that I hope you don't become trapped into staying in an unhealthy environment with your children because you feel too guilty about your dh's mental illness to leave him.

 

It's terrible that he is mentally ill. It's not his fault that he is mentally ill. But he is. And he's not seeking treatment, and his intolerable behaviors are intensifying. You are not responsible for staying with a man who refuses treatment and who may very well be engaging in extremely unhealthy behaviors outside the house that could ultimately affect not only your own psychological state, but your physical health as well.

 

I'm not saying you should pack your bags and leave, but if you decide to do that, you will get no judgment from me. Please do whatever you need to do in order to protect yourself and your children. I am relieved to know that you are getting your safety nets in place so you will be prepared if you reach the end of your rope and can no longer fight to get your dh into treatment and on medications.

 

Basically, I'm saying that I don't want you to be held hostage by the "mental illness" label if your dh refuses to get help. You can't save someone who won't try to help himself, and you don't have to give up any chance at happiness for yourself and your children if your dh isn't willing to cooperate. You say "it isn't really him," but it is. This is who he is right now. He is a mentally ill person who is refusing to get the help he needs. If you would know what to do if there wasn't mental illness involved, then you also know what you should do if he won't seek help, because you should not have to live the way you're living. Your feelings and well-being matter, too.

 

And remember that even if you reach the point where you can't stay with him any longer, that doesn't have to be a permanent decision if he gets treatment and medications that stabilize his condition and help him go back to being the great guy he once was.

 

I'm so sorry you're in this awful position. :(

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

((((((Hugs))))))

[MercyA]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Mergath]

Praying for you, Moonhawk.

 

One thing I want to say, though -- and it may not be a popular sentiment -- is that I hope you don't become trapped into staying in an unhealthy environment with your children because you feel too guilty about your dh's mental illness to leave him.

 

It's terrible that he is mentally ill. It's not his fault that he is mentally ill. But he is. And he's not seeking treatment, and his intolerable behaviors are intensifying. You are not responsible for staying with a man who refuses treatment and who may very well be engaging in extremely unhealthy behaviors outside the house that could ultimately affect not only your own psychological state, but your physical health as well.

 

I'm not saying you should pack your bags and leave, but if you decide to do that, you will get no judgment from me. Please do whatever you need to do in order to protect yourself and your children. I am relieved to know that you are getting your safety nets in place so you will be prepared if you reach the end of your rope and can no longer fight to get your dh into treatment and on medications.

 

Basically, I'm saying that I don't want you to be held hostage by the "mental illness" label if your dh refuses to get help. You can't save someone who won't try to help himself, and you don't have to give up any chance at happiness for yourself and your children if your dh isn't willing to cooperate. You say "it isn't really him," but it is. This is who he is right now. He is a mentally ill person who is refusing to get the help he needs. If you would know what to do if there wasn't mental illness involved, then you also know what you should do if he won't seek help, because you should not have to live the way you're living. Your feelings and well-being matter, too.

 

And remember that even if you reach the point where you can't stay with him any longer, that doesn't have to be a permanent decision if he gets treatment and medications that stabilize his condition and help him go back to being the great guy he once was.

 

I'm so sorry you're in this awful position. :(

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

:iagree:  I used to tell dh, "It's not your fault you have bipolar disorder. But how you deal with it is on you." It is his fault if he doesn't take his meds. Or if he uses being bipolar as an excuse to do something stupid. You have to find a happy medium between not blaming the person who's ill for their illness, but making them take some amount of responsibility for their actions. It's good to be patient and understanding, but at the same time, mental illness isn't a free pass for someone to do whatever they want with no repercussions.

 

[mominco]

:grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

[maize]

I agree with Catwoman and Mergath. Allowing a person to mistreat and abuse you (and your dh's behavior is absolutely abusive) is not healthy and is not a mark of love or compassion. Brené Brown talks about the relationship between compassion and boundaries in her book The Gifts of Imperfection; she believes that boundaries are critical for true compassion to manifest. I tend to agree with her.

 

Mental illness is a very hard burden to bear--hard for the primary victim, and hard for the secondary victims. The primary victim has the most responsibility for and tools available to fight it, including medication and therapies and caring for themself physically. Outside support can play a critical role, but support people can do nothing without the cooperation of the individual themself. If that individual is unwilling or unable to do what is necessary to control the ravages of the disease in their own life the support people must take actions to limit the fallout of the disease in their lives. Otherwise the illness will claim multiple victims rather than just one.

 

There are no easy answers or easy solutions, but I believe you have the strength and courage and faith to navigate this path. I am continuing to pray for you.

[JudoMom]

Thank you, I need it. It's getting worse. If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive. There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now.

Praying for you, Moonhawk. Your compassion and handling of this situation is remarkable, and while I know it must be shredding your heart and the unknowns must be scary, you are a strong and brave woman who is loved by God.

[LMD]

:iagree: I used to tell dh, "It's not your fault you have bipolar disorder. But how you deal with it is on you." It is his fault if he doesn't take his meds. Or if he uses being bipolar as an excuse to do something stupid. You have to find a happy medium between not blaming the person who's ill for their illness, but making them take some amount of responsibility for their actions. It's good to be patient and understanding, but at the same time, mental illness isn't a free pass for someone to do whatever they want with no repercussions.

 

I agree. I told one person in my life, who was newly married, something very similar. That he had made promises and had a responsibility to keep his $#!t together. I may have told him that if he didn't, I would come and get his wife myself... and when it went bad and his wife called me, I went and got her.

 

Praying for you moonhawk.

[mom@shiloh]

:grouphug:

 

No advice.  Just hugs and prayers. 

[Vintage81]

:grouphug:

[PrincessMommy]

Lots of hugs.   :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

Moonhawk, just checking in to see if there is an update.  We are all worried about you.

[BooksandBoys]

Hugs.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[Mergath]

Moonhawk, just checking in to see if there is an update.  We are all worried about you.

 

All right you guys, keep your hair on. She did post yesterday. Let's not make her feel like we're all going to freak out if she can't come in and update every twelve hours or something. She's under a lot of stress. I'm sure she'll update when she can.

[Plink]

Praying that he goes back on his medication.  

 

Also, congratulations on your new little one!!!

[Moonhawk]

Moonhawk, just checking in to see if there is an update.  We are all worried about you.

Well, not much to update except gory details. This feels very self indulgent, but here I am typing anyway, lol.

The TL;DR is he's actively working to push this to crisis and idk how to respond, or when.

 

He came home after 10pm last night, after saying he had to go into town in the morning for the library.  I did call him midday and confront him over it when he started evading basic questions. Basically he said all the same stuff, with an extra dose of feeling trapped and if he didn't go through with his date then he would feel "a profound sense of loss and I don't know *what* I'd do", and there is nothing wrong with how he is, it is just who he is. I kind of lost my cool and told him every action has an equal and opposite reaction.  He did admit he isn't thinking about consequences, so long as he gets to "live."

 

He's trying now to engage me on text, but I'm basically just sitting here. I don't know if I should try to normalize relations to deescalate or not. He might get the impression all is well, and it most certainly is not. On the other hand, I want to get through the week before I start shaking Pandora's box. Also, I'm not used to taking action when my emotions are high, I tend to wait until I cool off so I don't act on passion alone. The schedule this week happens to end with him not around kids at all until Friday so I think I'm going to take the time to continue plans and regain my level, unless he forces my hand early.

 

Technically he hasn't crossed my internal line yet (but like, he is doing pirouettes on it) and my aim is still to slow this train, not add fuel to the fire. I cannot compute that my life has changed so much in so little time. He was so excited for the baby, delighted, he literally said life was good. Now he's saying he's never enjoyed family life and wasn't meant to be married. It's just surreal. I don't think I've fully caught up to what's going on. 

 

Thanks for indulging me. I'll keep future updates to things that materially change the situation.

[Anne in CA]

Praying here. Sorry things aren't getting better, but you seem to be doing really well for everything that's happened. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

I don't see any self indulgence. You're allowed to share gory details, if only to confirm just how surreal it all is. (It's pretty darn surreal!) Hugs and prayers.

[Seasider]

He went on a date and that doesn't cross your internal line? You are a much more generous woman than I would be, even with the mental illness factor.

[maize]

Have you contacted a lawyer yet?

[clementine]

Just read this thread - I am so sorry for all you are going through.  You may need to make decisions before you cool down as much as you'd like to.  Remember, you and your children come first.   :grouphug:

[Moonhawk]

Have you contacted a lawyer yet?

Yes, but have not gotten any actual advice yet (part of the reason I'm trying to delay to Friday). 

[AmandaVT]

Ugh, I'm so sorry you're going through this Moonhawk!! I've been thinking of you all week. 

[BlessedMom]

You continue to be in my thoughts and prayers today!